Home Theater Geeks 466 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
00:00 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
In this episode of Home Theater Geeks, I continue my discussion with Mike Heiss about what he saw at CES 2025. So stick around Podcasts, you love.
00:14 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
From people you trust.
00:17 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
This is TWIT. Hey there, scott Wilkinson. Here, the home theater geek. In this episode, I continue my conversation with Mike Heiss, industry journalist and consultant, who just got back from CES 2025. This time we're going to focus on TVs. Hey, Mike, welcome back. How you doing, scott, doing good. So let's get deep in the weeds here, shall we the geeky weeds?
00:59 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
First of all, we're geeking in, not geeking out, yeah we're geeking in?
01:02 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yeah, exactly. First of all, I want to mention we have basically four major brands of TV that are at CES, five if you count Sony, but they didn't show any new TVs at CES, but they had a cool car Hisense, lg, Samsung and TCL. And many people would say High Sense and TCL are second-tier brands, not anymore. I agree with you. I don't think so. I think they have become first-tier brands.
01:44 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And if you look at the market share, which they did not hesitate to point out I'm looking in my notes here there are months or quarters when they're number one they're number one. I mean, they're really pushing the envelope, both in terms of features and technology, and they're not a cheapo. Yes, you can still buy them at what do you call it? You can buy them at the warehouse, at Costco and Sam's Club. But, as an example, tcl was at Cedia for the first time this year, and well, with the 115-inch set, you might imagine.
02:25 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
But no, these are, these are real, serious TVs, and still at prices that are somewhat less than LG, samsung and Sony.
02:35 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Well, I mean you have to compare feature set and technology to feature set and technology. But I mean, the answer is they are real value for the price and they're going to give some of the other, you know, legacy brands the run for their money.
02:54 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So let's start with Hisense. They showed a number of really cool things. One was the 136MX 136-inch micro LED display direct view micro LED display 4K Dolby Vision and HDR10+ HDMI 2.1. We're not going to see any 2.2 sets this year, please, with gaming features like VRR and ALLM, variable refresh rate and automatic. I forget what ALLM stands for.
03:27 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Automatic Low Weight and Speed.
03:31 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And those are for gamers. It covers 95% of BT.2020 color gamut and it goes up to 10,000 nits of peak brightness.
03:41 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Holy smokes Them's a lot of nits. Don't be picking them nits.
03:46 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Now, did you see it? I know that I'm showing you a.
03:49 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yes, I did, yes, and I mean I had taken some pictures, but what you just saw is actually better because it's a studio shot. As we said in part one, it's really hard to say which was better, because the one downside of a trade show is you don't see them side by side. Everybody shows theirs in a booth and you have to rely on your visual memory.
04:13 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Such as it is.
04:14 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And they all look good. And everybody always is playing separate demo material. So it's not like the old days where everybody was, you know, playing top gun for good right now they have all you know.
04:29
They all have a custom-made demo material in in very, very high resolution and clearly tailored to showcase, you know, underwater scenes and the jellyfish and what we used to show my age. We used to call these Japanese demo reels, when the Japanese sets of brands were, you know, were the big ones and the LG and Samsung were the up and comers. Now it's the reverse, that LG and Samsung have become the legacy brands and the TCLs and Hisenses are the. They're not the up-and-comers anymore.
05:08 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
They have already come up, and that's another interesting point you make. The high-end TVs were made in Japan and the Koreans were the up-and-comers.
05:18 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Now the Koreans are the legacy brands and the Chinese are the up-and-comers or have already arrived are the legacy brands and the Chinese are the up and comers or have already arrived, although I say advisedly, designed in Korea, not necessarily made in Korea, and that's going to be important.
05:35 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Hisense also showed 163 inch micro LED TV, same as the 136 and has basically the same specs same as the 136 and has basically the same specs.
05:52 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
There wasn't as much attention on any of the manufacturers. Lg kind of not at all. I guess I'll wait for ISC and Avixa, which are more on the commercial side. Samsung a little bit. They didn't show the wall as the wall. I don't know if they've retired that moniker as a brand. They did have some direct view LEDs, but they didn't make a big deal out of it. Both Hisense and TCL did not necessarily as much because they're for sale, but because they can.
06:21 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, and you can buy them if you have six or seven figures probably.
06:25 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yeah, and good for you if you can Well you can buy them if you have six or seven figures probably.
06:27
Yeah, and good for you if you can, but it's the attention this year was not as much on direct view LED and although LG showed transparent this year and I just want to slide that in they did have a very interesting art display using the transparent sets, but like, okay, fine, and they had the one they introduced last year that's now available for sale in their demo suite and on the floor Excuse me if that's your thing. Fine, Samsung had them, but not as a display display but more for retail applications, which is fine. But they've kind of gone back to basics in terms of what makes the image on a standard tv, whether it's an oled or an led lcd right, look better.
07:22 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And Hisense made a pretty big announcement in that regard with their 116-inch, 116ux RGB mini LED LCD TV. That's a mouthful and it looked pretty good. But the important part is the mini LEDs in the backlight. Instead of being white or blue passing through a quantum dot film, they are now directly red, green and blue LEDs.
07:58 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And that is not a firsty. First. That is the first since wow, sharp criminellies that had to have been 10, maybe even 15 years ago, at the very beginning of LED backlight, and I think Sony had one back in the back of the day. But this is the first time this technology has reappeared and the advancements between now and then is that they're small, they're many leds and they're really bright and the color is good really again.
08:30
This tv is is specced to to have a peak brightness of 10 000 nits yep, and you know, if I had the bucks and I had the wall space, and if I could fit it through the damn door, well, sure, why sure? Why not?
08:43 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
It's 4K, it's 97% of the BT.2020 color gamut and here's a slide, a photo you took of a display there.
08:53 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yeah, this was at the press conference it shows the advantages of RGB LED backlights.
09:03
And if you look over at the side where it says color control precision, that is also due to the processor. And one of the things that and this is not new, this has been going on for the past many years that each brand highlights the capabilities of their processor, and that's what is the secret sauce, and that's like, as in the case of the LG panels that's why the same panel might look I wouldn't say better or worse, because I didn't see them side by side but perhaps different from one brand to another, because there's also not just the panel but the actual process.
09:47 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Which makes a big, big difference, no question. So this is what Hisense said was the advantage of RGB, micro LED or mini LEDs. And they weren't the only company talking about it, which we'll get to in a minute, yep, the last thing I wanted. Well, two things more about Hisense. One was the LQ9 UST projector, ultra short throw, which is a three laser projector, 5,000 lumens output, 110% of BT.2020 color space, which is wider than even the HDR spec says, and it can fill up to a 150-inch screen.
10:33 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
I did not ask them, by the way, if that was an ALR screen.
10:37 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Oh, it had to be Ambient light rejecting. I mean, I would be shocked if they weren't using an ALR screen in the demo, because it's on a show floor.
10:50 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Sure Well, but they had them sort of in these dark outputs Okay.
10:55 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Still yeah. And then one thing you pointed out to me that I thought was really cool was an ultra short throw projector with a rollable screen integrated into the case. So this was this is very cool. So it's an ultra short throw projector sitting there right in front of the screen, right below it, and the screen, motorized, rolls up when you want to watch the TV and rolls down when you're done. This isn't new.
11:20 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And the projector kind of pops out where you see there's actually I didn't crop this, I left the Hisense in so I'd remember what it was but like a little door opens up and, oh my goodness, there's a projector there.
11:33 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So that's pretty cool too, yeah.
11:36 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
I mean, there's a company called AWOL, which I've always thought was sort of a strange name for anybody that's been around the military, but AWOL has had sets like that at Cedia for quite a while. This is the first time one of the main brands has shown that. So Samsung I'm sorry, hisense claims Let me flip my notes back here. Hisense claims 63% of the 100 inch TVs that are sold regardless of brands are USGs, which kind of makes sense when you look at the cost and the ease of installation. Good luck getting that 116 inch set through the door, yeah very good point it folds in the middle.
12:28 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Once, once, only once, only once. Okay, let's move on to LG. They had their 2025 lineup, which you can tell in their model numbers because they end in a five. Well, five is better than four. So they had their M5, which is a pretty high-end. That one also will be very good. And the step-down, if you want to call it that, g5, both of which are in their Evo OLED line, brighter than last year. Faster refresh rates We've been talking about gaming, and a lot of these TVs are up to 144, 165 hertz refresh rate with NG sync and right from Nvidia, and I forget who the other one is.
13:26
Oh yeah yeah, variable refresh rate. They have this new remote we talked about it in part one that recognizes different voices, allows more conversational commands and, of course, and it's tied into the dare I say it the AI.
13:46 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yeah, exactly.
13:47 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Exactly. They also introduced the C5 and the B5, which are their step-down models. I often recommend the C series of LG OLEDs because they're not. I mean they're more expensive than most LCD TVs, but not astronomical.
14:08 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And again it reaches a point of diminishing returns where you almost have to convince yourself that it's better, because if you put them side by side, you know, unless you're, you know, a colorist or Joe Cain or whomever, would you really be able to tell which is which? And I would gather that. Or did I clean my glasses?
14:31 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
gather that?
14:31 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
or did I clean my glasses? You know, because I'm always, you know, doing that when I take off my reading glasses, which I'm wearing now, or my non-reading glasses, and you know how many people can really tell the difference. I mean, it's you know true.
14:46 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
One thing I will say about the M5 is that they now have something new from LG called the Zero Connect Box, which transmits.
14:56 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And Samsung has their version Samsung has their version.
14:58 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
We'll talk about that in a minute. But this transmits audio video signals wirelessly to the TV, which means a wall-mounted TV won't have as many wires. It still have power, but it won't have HDMI, for example.
15:18 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And they were so meticulous about that that the wires that are there for the power. There's a recess in the back of the set so that you can mount it as close to the wall as possible.
15:32 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Very good.
15:34 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
So they're really very design aware.
15:37 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Okay, next up Panasonic. They were back big time. They used to be big big, big, big time.
15:44 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And in fact we've been talking about the legacy brands and there's a legacy brand that is returning big time and one of the hallmarks that LG has been using is a lot of the colorists here in Hollywood and elsewhere have been using those in their mastering applications. Mark Wheelage, who I think you know is a longtime journalist and a big colorist, does a lot of restorations In his studio. He's got a big LG that's his master monitor. But a lot of the posthouses have been using Panasonic's and now they're going back. They had a full line of both OLEDs and LCD LED Amazing.
16:30 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
They showed, for example, the Z 95 B OLED, which has this new LG four layer panel which we talked about and you said it was really outstanding picture quality.
16:45 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yep, and it really really was, and they had it in the dark, you know back room where it looked good.
16:58 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
But, more importantly, they had it out on the show floor and it looked really good, even with all that ambient light. Yep, now, interestingly, it's based on the fire TV platform. Ok, with what?
17:11 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
That's why.
17:10 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
God invented.
17:11 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
With what. That's why God invented weapons. And again, as we've said before, they're selling eyeballs as much as they're selling TVs. This is razors and blades. This is as old as King Gillette. King Gillette should have gotten Nobel Prize for thinking up selling razors and blades, and that's what this is. This is sets and eyeballs.
17:39 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Right, right. I think we didn't mention when we were talking about LG, and I can put it in here, because Panasonic's doing the same thing, using this new four-layer OLED structure yes and doing away with micro lens array or MLA, which was their big technological feature of the last couple of years.
18:02 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Right, and this is whatever it does. However it does it, it does it really really well. It's brighter, there's more contrast, but then you go into the secret sauce. Lg has theirs, panasonic has theirs and, in fact, a lot of the press people, myself included, were sort of confused as to whether they were actually using the same panel. And it is the same panel, but driven by a different processor.
18:35 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
It was interesting that LG didn't seem to tout this four-layer structure as much as Panasonic.
18:43 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
They were, I wouldn't put words in their mouth. They were a little apologetic when in some of the press briefings, when people say, well, where's mla? Well, we got something new. But it was sort of odd that that they did not um make a big deal out of it, but it's but the picture, trust me, the pictures are good.
19:06 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I'm sure that's true. Um, panasonic also showed the W95B, which is a mini-LED LCD TV which they said had two and a half times the number of dimming zones from last year's W95A, although I read in one of the reports from the show that it's still below 1,000 dimming zones. You said people weren't talking about dimming zones this year and okay, fine.
19:32 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
No, and in fact, not only were they not talking about dimming zones. You said people weren't talking about dimming zones this year, and okay, fine, no, and in fact, not only were they not talking about dimming zones. I know you'll get to it in a bit. Tcl was saying enough with the dimming zones. It's not just about the dimming zones and it's about how does the picture look, and if you're a home theater geek, you want to know how it got there, but your partner or significant other doesn't care. They just damn, that's a good picture. Jeez, that's a crappy picture. Well, why not? Well, it doesn't have enough getting zones.
20:06 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I didn't ask you that.
20:08 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And I think that that's a very correct marketing approach, and TCL mentioned that more than once in their presentation.
20:15 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I was amazed to read in the Panasonic press materials that this mini-LED LCD TV does not use quantum dots. They're using phosphors. And again, this is home theater geek, so I can get geeky.
20:32 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
I didn't see that whilst I was at the show so I wasn't able to ask them. But you know you have to say they had a reason. Reason number one could have been cost. Reason number two could have been because by the OLED.
20:47 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
That's why, by the OLED. Well, that's what I would say anyway, okay, samsung. Moving on to Samsung, they have OLED TVs. These are Quantum Dot OLED, qd OLED, at least their top one, the S95F, which I only found this kind of semi-boring picture of. They also have the S 90 F, s 85 F. These are all OLEDs. The S 95 F is QD OLED, the 90 and 85 are regular OLED or W OLED, um, and the S 95 F has a refresh rate up to 165 Hertz. So again we're, and the QDiola.
21:33 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Gaming is clearly an important marketing point for all of the brands. They touted VRR and they touted the 144, 160, and onward.
21:48 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Now here was a really interesting spec I found the QDiola. The S95F can get up to 4,000 nits of peak brightness, which I've never heard an OLED could do to do that before.
22:02 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
You know. But again you go back to what some of my colorist friends say. When Dolby first came out with their master monitor for Dolby Vision, that was some ridiculous amount of nits at the time and some of the colorists were saying I have to take a break every 15 minutes because they're too bloody bright. So it's not just about the brightness, it's not just about and again I mean I kid him, he's a very good friend of mine Joe Cain would say it's not about the brightness, it's about the contrast.
22:38
And he's right and you know people have to really look at the picture in totality to really see is this the right picture that I want and is it better than the other one? I hate to say it in this forum. Sometimes you got to put the specs aside.
23:01 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
True, true, but at the moment specs are all I got, so Specs live, specs live.
23:06 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Ah, specs live.
23:07 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Okay, they also had some mini LEDs, mini LED.
23:13 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
We're back to.
23:14 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Samsung.
23:16 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yes, the one thing that they did have, which was in the secret room, which is not available yet, but tagging on to what Hisense is doing with mini LED RGBs, samsung this is not available now. This was in the secret room and not on the floor, but they did show and they wouldn't let me take a picture of it. So I apologize, but they didn't let me take a picture of it a micro LED backlight that was RGB. Now, micro LED is like the wall, right, it's normally used in direct view.
23:54
Teeny, weeny, teeny, teeny, teeny, weeny, tiny LEDs that were RGBs in the same dome. And the advantage there, as Hisense pointed out, excuse me, by having individual RGB LEDs you can not only get better contrast by turning the cell on and off, you can turn the color on or change it.
24:18
So when you when right and when you combine that with the advanced processing, that's where you really start to get good pictures. And again I asked the folks from from Samsung, like micro LED you're going to confuse the damn daylights out of people and they said it's not available yet. That won't change, but that's something that's coming. But they wouldn't even say when and they sure as heck wouldn't say what price. But damn, was the picture good.
24:49 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
The picture, I'm sure, was really really good. So they did have two 8K mini LED backlit TVs, qn990f and QN900F. This is a picture of them. They were the ones pushing 8K. They were.
25:04 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Samsung and have always been and continue to.
25:10 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
How important it is.
25:11 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
I still don't think it's that important. No, and in fact, as I recall, LG did not introduce a new 8K set. The 8K set's a carryover.
25:20 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And Samsung introduced, like LG, a wireless connection box.
25:28 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
They call it Wireless One Connect. Yeah, and you know it's a thing and you know it's worth something to those to whom it's worth it, if that's necessary for the installation and you don't want to snake wires back behind the wall or put something over them then it's worth something, if you can afford it.
25:53 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Have at it sure they also introduced a bunch of new 4k tvs, again with refresh rates up to 165, sizes, up to 115 inches. So once again we're getting into the really big tvs. Yep, yep. I also thought it was interesting they introduced, uh, their second generation of the frame, which is this art tv they took a little bit of heat for the picture quality.
26:20 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Uh what, when it wasn't no of the original frame in the community and they, they, you know stepped up the bar on that and the quality was good, and they talked about art, from the musee to something or other, and the Art Basel oh, art Basel. I think I went to school with him and so, again, it's not particularly something that's of interest to me, but I'm one person and to this lady here, she's clearly got a much nicer house than I do with some real art, so you know good for her.
27:00
And back at cd they showed speakers that matched the frame display.
27:07 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So they're all into that concept and apparently you're doing very well because tcl has a similar concept okay, I didn't know that, although that leads us right into tcl, uh, which is interesting in that they have a lab in china where they develop mini led technology, so and they make their own le mini leds for their backlight, so they're totally vertically integrated.
27:37 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
They are the vertical integrated company and the company, the division that makes the displays, is called CSOT, china Star Optical, something that starts with a T, and they claim to be the largest manufacturer of LCD panels. And, excuse me, that gives them the expertise. And then, when you combine that with the lab, they cook up a lot of stuff and then they get to use it in their sets and sell some, but not all of it to their customers.
28:11
So the main product, that they showed was the QM6K, the only really new set that they showed, and they were very forthwith about that during their pre-show event and they said more is coming.
28:23 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Okay, so this is a quantum dot-based mini LED backlight TV, lcd TV. They claim to have increased brightness by over 50%, 500 dimming zones, 98% of DCI-P3 color gamut. They even gave prices. They start at 50 inches for $750, which is not bad.
28:47 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
For a high-end set.
28:49 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
The 65 is $1,000. 75, $1,300. 85, $2,000. 98 inches for $3, exactly. The 65 is $1,000. 75, $1,300. 85, $2,000. 98 inches for $3,500.
28:58 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And you look at what those used to cost.
29:00 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yes.
29:01 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
If you remember back and it wasn't in the grand scheme of things that long ago the original Panasonic 103-inch plasma I remember that one, six figures, six figures, six figures, yep, and you had to build your house.
29:17 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
To get it into the house, you had to build the house around it.
29:21 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Bill Gates did.
29:25 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, as you pointed out, they hinted at some stuff, including the QM7K.
29:31 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Right the qm7k um and they showed another 115 incher, the qm891g, which you have a picture of the world's largest qd mini.
29:43 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
There it is and and again.
29:47 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Uh, with apologies for it's time to buy a new DSLR, but yes, this is. They're all really good and I hate to be repetitive, but they all looked really good and it was just really hard to say what was the best one at the show.
30:07 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Very hard to say.
30:09 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
You also got a picture, sorry go ahead and along with it you can see in the back where that fellow is standing, where it says world's leading technology, that they were showcasing all of the different aspects of their technology from the lab and from CSOT that really have them get the advantages that they're able to offer.
30:36 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
You also got a picture of the 163-inch micro-LED direct view Yep.
30:44 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
And I had to stand far back enough in order to get people out of the way. Sir, can you get out of the way, for goodness sakes, I have to take a picture. People out of the way, sir, can you get out? Of the way for goodness sakes I have to take a picture and I should have cropped that down.
30:59 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I apologize, I could have cropped it it was huge.
31:06 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
It was really hard to take pictures of all these 100-plus-inch sets.
31:09 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I was shooing people away like crazy, and I think you mentioned that TCL, or there were some rumors that some high-end TCL sets would be using RGB mini LEDs in their backlights Later.
31:25 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Later, later, later, later, later not, they were not. They were not, uh, saying that to the extent that the others were. They were focused on other aspects that are coming now in their mini led backlighting so a couple other pieces of tv news before we wrap this part up.
31:48 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Um, sharp was back sharp. They used to have huge press conferences. I remember one where there were.
31:56 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
There were because they were a main brand. They made their own sets. I believe they in the recent years they've had some financial difficulties. They were a primary lcd panel manufacturers. They were the first gen 7, gen 8, uh kameyama. They had a huge I I've been to their factory, not to the panel factory. I've been to the assembly factories in japan and they're huge, but they have financial difficulties and um, they're now, I believe, owned by Foxconn. Like, if you've got an iPhone, you know what Foxconn is.
32:31 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
But, they are back and powered by TiVo. I thought TiVo had more or less disappeared as well.
32:38 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Well, tivo, I got one right over there and you can take that TiVo from my cold hands, but that's a topic for another show perhaps. But it is that when we talked about OS earlier and in part one, some of the manufacturers that don't have the wherewithal or the desire, as Tizen does at Samsung or WebOS does at LG, to develop their own OS. That's why TCL doesn't have their own OS. It was Roku and it is still is to some extent, or it's a TV Excuse me, I got John Greenewald yeah, go right ahead, you're.
33:23 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
you're sitting in the middle of very bad air quality in Los Angeles, right?
33:26 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, Don't go out without a mask. I dug out all those masks let me tell you. In fact they're saying don't even use KNs. I've got to see if I can find some N95, or you'll see people on the news with the respirator pipes. And it was really bad.
33:44 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Anyway, Sharp TV and TiVo was really bad.
33:53 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Anyway, sharp TV and TiVo, tivo OS lets them say let somebody else do the ad sales, we'll just take a piece of it, let somebody else take the time and expense to develop it, do the ad sales, and then we'll wrap our video processing around it. And for a brand like Sharp that's coming back into the market, that makes sense. Panasonic there's no Panasonic OS, they're using the Focaccia.
34:17 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Fire TV.
34:19 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Sony. Sony clearly could make their own OS if they wanted to.
34:23 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
They use Google.
34:24 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Thank goodness they don't have to right, and so that's a brand decision. But, by the way, I also saw not at ces, or I didn't see it because i- have to be early, but, um, sharp is also going to introduce sets with zumo.
34:39
Xumo, which is a joint venture between charter and Comcast, or the two largest cable companies. Comcast also happens to own NBC and Universal, and Charter, which is Spectrum, is actually now, I think, as big with some of the fall-off in subscriptions in terms of cable. So they have their own OS and their own tvs which are a little bit more tightly integrated into if you're a comcast or charter um cable subscriber. But again, which one is better? There are ones that I like, there are ones that you like. But do you like a carousel or do you like tiles?
35:28
Um, roku is tiles where you see the little blocks. Um, google and Fire are carousel where you run them across the screen. Uh, apple TV is tiles. So which OS do you as, as a consumer, prefer? And again, you can either do it and let that guide your TV technology choice. I wouldn't do it and I don't think many of the people here would do it. They'd rather have a better-looking TV and, if they don't like the OS, buy a Roku Right or a Zumo or a Fire TV or an NVIDIA Shield still around and still the best for video people.
36:13 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So, but that's, you know, that's the answer to the ball game ATSC 3.0, otherwise known as Next Gen TV.
36:21 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Indeed, and they were there and they announced again we're talking about RCA before. And they were there and they announced again we're talking about RCA before. Rca and a company that, I have to confess, I'm not familiar with Slyvox.
36:33 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I think yeah, slyvox, I would pronounce it.
36:37 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Them two. Yeah Well, I guess Slyvox doesn't sound right, and they're big on outdoor TVs and if you think about it, that actually makes sense, because if it's an outdoor TV you just stick a coat hanger on the back and you get TV.
36:51 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
It may not be quite that simple.
36:53 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Yeah, well, you know, but I and there are more set now. Would I buy a new TV just to get ATSC 3.0 next gen? No, and I'm a big fan and proponent of it, but I'm not going to buy a new TV for it. Thus, I have a Zapper box, which is really good, a Zinwell, which is really good, even though it's got a funky name, an ADTH, which is okay, but it's a way for you know, anywhere from 79 bucks, a Walmart is selling one of these.
37:29 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So these are ATSC 3.0 receiver boxes, outboard boxes that you connect an antenna to.
37:37 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Just like 20 years ago, you bought a box to get 1.0. This is a box that gets you 3.0. But, for example, here in LA, where five of the stations are now next gen, the stations that were 720 are now 1080. The stations that were 1080i are now 1080p. I can get HDR or Dolby Vision over the air. I don't need a pay-no-sink cable.
38:05
And there are more things games and other auxiliary services that are coming, and some of the NBC stations KNBC here in LA has got an app. So if you're a true cord cutter, as long as you don't cut the cord to the antenna, I've got much of the functionality of streaming in terms of news services, or they even have a play from the beginning. So what is it? It's 20 to 5 here in LA, and when we're over, if I turn on the news to know that I wanted to see the beginning of the 4 o'clock news, to get the press conference on the fires, I could just press the go to beginning app button and you know, and that's worth it, and they are going to have a much uh more advanced, uh, early warning system. So it's a thing. And the fact that it will deliver, uh, hdr is um, or dolby vision or hdr 10 plus, which they also announced that I will talk about, is something that I encourage everybody to at least consider.
39:13 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Speaking of which, hdr10+ was continuing to gain ground at CES, and they announced adoption for some content by Disney+.
39:26 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
In addition, apple TV, paramount, prime Video, youtube, All the Prime Video stuff is HDR10+, or so they said, and I know the guy who runs that and I believe them and they had sort of as an aside. There are now dual mode encoders. So if there is a sporting event and that's the big play for local tv right now, that, um, that a broadcaster will be able to encode both hdr 10 plus and dolby vision. It's all about the metadata on the same show. How that's going to happen with these devices remains to be seen. But you know, for example, samsung doesn't have Dolby Vision. They have HDR10+. Lg has Dolby Vision, but they may not. As somebody says in the chat room, there's no HDR10+ and there's LG C2. So all of this is, you know, this is all a way to make it as friendly as they can for the consumer to deliver the best possible picture.
40:37 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yep well, that was an awful lot of stuff, wasn't it?
40:44 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
yep, it was. It was a good. It really was, in spite of the fact that I had to go over there early. It was a. It was a good show and, again, I think the bottom line in terms of video, what we been talking about for this part too, is, yes, there were some, even without cleaning off my glasses ability to see improvements.
41:12 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, I'm looking forward to 2025 in the TV world, then, for sure.
41:17 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Well, we're looking for a better world for everybody.
41:20 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So can you stick around for part three? We'll talk about some audio stuff.
41:25 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Sure, Unfortunately I missed a lot of the audio stuff, but yeah, actually there's some of the stuff that I will put some good sense in, Good, good Looking forward to it, Okay thanks, Oscar Before we go tell us again where we can find your writings.
41:41
Residential Tech Today, which strangely enough has a print edition, I know. What is that about In a previous episode no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Residential Tech is North American and they have a quarterly print edition, but they have daily online things. I haven't put any of my stuff in there yet, but somebody clearly did, and that's wwwresstechtodaycom and I have a feature in every issue about that. And then there's Hidden Wires, which is an amazing European publication but also, yes, which also covers the UK and North America.
42:22
Yes, which also covers the UK and North America, and they have some interesting. I did an article about barben heart and what that means to us and that's hiddenwirescouk, and they have a bimonthly print edition and again, four times a week.
42:47 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And when I get my butt in gear here, you'll see some content. Okay, very good. Well, thanks so much for being here for part two and look forward to seeing you in part three.
42:56 - Mike Heiss (Guest)
Let's geek in. What's that we will geek out and then we will geek in.
43:02 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
We will geek out and we will geek in, exactly right. So listen, if you, as a listener or a viewer, have a question for me, I sure hope you'll send it along to htg at twittv and I will answer as many as I can right here on the show. And, as always, we thank you for your support of the Twit Network with your membership in Club Twit, which gives you access to all the Twitch shows in their video format, and you can come into the Discord and chat away. So we thank you for that. Until next time, geek out.
