MacBreak Weekly 921 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. This is a very special episode. Well, for one thing, we're recording on a Wednesday. Google IO was yesterday, so we flip-flopped with Twig. But that's very convenient because Jason Snell is here with his brand new 13-inch iPad Pro, the brand new keyboard, the brand new pencil. Mike Asar just got his 11-inch. He's going to unbox that iPad. 11-inch iPad, what did you think, I said? And then it's going to be me and Andy looking on and wishing we had such nice gear. So your iPad Pro reviews coming up plus all the Apple news. It's a special MacBreak Weekly in-studio edition.
Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is TWIT.
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 921. Recorded Wednesday, May 15th 2024: The Vision Division.
It's time for MacBreak Weekly, the show where we cover the latest news from Apple. Of course, all the news was a week ago when Apple announced the iPad Pro. We've delayed our show a day. Well, for a couple of reasons. One, because Google IO was yesterday, so we took Twig's place. We slotted Twig over onto our show slot on Tuesday and we're now doing MacBreak Weekly on Wednesday. But that means we can have some iPad pros. Jason Snell is here.
The embargo lifted yesterday uh, no Monday Monday afternoon, and so you had this fun weekend. You had this. Sorry, I got this Wednesday, Wednesday okay, yeah, I was.
0:01:35 - Jason Snell
I was actually in New York last week when you did the show, because I was at their little dog and pony show and where the briefings were. Yeah London and New York.
0:01:42 - Leo Laporte
Those were the choices you couldn't go to Cupertino, uh no, so an hour away from your house and uh, and then yeah and got the iPad. Uh, Wednesday nice uh, well, we will get your thoughts. Uh, andy and ako and I are going to be sitting drooling from a distance. Andy, it looks like, is at the library again. Hello, Andrew hello.
0:02:04 - Andy Ihnatko
yeah, this is. It's now, the weather's kind of nicer. It's like I need excuses to get out of the office. What a backdrop and I reminded myself what a lovely library we have nearby and it's like, oh, okay, I love the view.
0:02:15 - Mikah Sargent
I find myself wanting to read that text.
0:02:17 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of small. If you can read it, you're too close. And that is Mr Micah Sargent, close, and that and that is a large mr micah sergeant. Hello, we made him work today even though he worked yesterday, and he's working sunday and tomorrow oh, it's weird.
0:02:35 - Mikah Sargent
It's like it's a job or something like it was a job.
0:02:37 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you ordered the 11 inch I did order.
0:02:42 - Mikah Sargent
The 11 inch has it come yet it is. It is here and I have left it in the box so we can do a live unboxing.
0:02:49 - Leo Laporte
Why don't we do an unboxing the?
0:02:51 - Jason Snell
internet loves it when people take things out of boxes.
0:02:53 - Leo Laporte
That's the strangest thing Do we still love? That? Is that still?
0:02:56 - Jason Snell
a thing I don't know.
0:02:57 - Mikah Sargent
We're going to do it anyway. I think the ASMR people still do.
0:03:06 - Jason Snell
It'll provide interesting video for our discussion of the iPad.
0:03:07 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I think we're just gonna watch him as we talk. Yeah, you talk I'll unbox.
0:03:11 - Mikah Sargent
So that's the keyboard and this is what's interesting. They let me. Well, let me do the keyboard first, and then I'll explain what's interesting. So this has that standard. By the way, if you're noticing, I'm getting used to some stuff that's in my mouth. Uh, chikaprasis, you got Invisalign, huh. Yeah, I did so, it'll take some time, but then I will not sound as weird as I do today. No more buck-toothed Charlie huh, exactly no, you had great teeth, thank you.
0:03:33 - Leo Laporte
Thank you, you just wanted to fix some crowding.
0:03:36 - Mikah Sargent
I just wanted to fix some crowding, I just wanted to convince you my grandpa, my great grandpa, who had no teeth by the time he passed away. His name was Freddie Mercury Freddie Mercury, who had no teeth by the time he passed away, who, I was told, part of the reason why he went when he did was because he wasn't eating greens and other roughage. So, you know, just trying to make sure they're all where they need to be. Anyway, there is that distraction, and now you all are listening even closer to how I sound. This is great. So, anyway, what we're going to do is unbox this, and this is what I was saying. This is apple standard packaging. I was prepared for this. I can pull the tab and I can get right into, and then you got a box within a box but that's good I hate it
almost all paper now yes, and in fact we don't have any plastic shrink wrap over the top. We've got some more pull tabs, so that's a good thing. They're very environmentally conscious.
0:04:30 - Leo Laporte
You know, this is the new keyboard that is mostly metal.
0:04:34 - Jason Snell
It looks like it's still got the rubber outside, but the interior it's got that aluminum piece on it, and so the keyboard is much more like using a MacBook Air Function keys and haptic feedback, and the 13-inch Pro I got on my kitchen scale last week. The 13-inch Pro with the magic keyboard on it is within 20 grams of the MacBook Air in weight. Oh, isn't that interesting. So it will give you the. And then the 11 is going to be even lighter.
0:05:01 - Mikah Sargent
And yeah, there's no click to this because it's haptic. So once it gets powered then it will do a click. Yep, uh it okay. I see what you're saying. It's rubbery on the outside, yeah it's a little darker.
0:05:10 - Jason Snell
The the black is, uh, not really black, but it's a much. It's a darker gray than the old one. If you've got like leo's, I'm pretty sure it's a little bit darker.
0:05:18 - Leo Laporte
But well, I can tell you, that's actually why I brought this in. Uh, partly to say goodbye to the old this is an. M1. This is two generations ago.
0:05:28 - Jason Snell
That's the one I have at home.
0:05:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I mean I didn't see a reason to upgrade. I still don't, Frank, so there's the color gray.
0:05:35 - Mikah Sargent
Oh yeah, you're right, it is a little bit darker.
0:05:37 - Leo Laporte
A little bit darker.
0:05:39 - Jason Snell
And then the rubber outside, I think, is a little bit darker too.
0:05:41 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, this is lighter.
0:05:43 - Jason Snell
It's because they went from space gray to space black. I like black better, it's nicer.
0:05:46 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I did not want to go with the other one. I do love that it has a function row. Now, that's awesome.
0:05:51 - Leo Laporte
I think that does make a difference. This really makes it a laptop ergonomically.
0:05:56 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I mean, adding the haptic trackpad and adding the function row really makes it feel even more like I said. And the weight I've been using this for the last six days and um as as my primary um for almost everything instead of a mac, and it has, and I have an m2 macbook air at home, right, so it's very similar, right, the keyboard is similar, the trackpad similar, the weight is similar, the os is totally different but, like in a lot of ways, ergonomically it's basically a laptop when it's in this and then, of course, you pop it off and it's not anymore now here's something that surprised me.
0:06:31 - Leo Laporte
Um, I'm going to open up this box, which is kind of john's here with his and john his box.
0:06:35 - Mikah Sargent
Let's show john's, because john's this is, this is the iPad and this is the apple pencil and he got, you got the 13 and two boxes, right, yeah. And look, it's got that standard apple wrapper with a little pull tab, and same thing here now mine. Yours looked like mine came in one box, right and check this out. This seems very un-apple-y to me. Um wrap, oh, it's just got.
0:06:58 - Leo Laporte
It's got craft paper well, and they're not going to use plastic bubble wrap the iPad's just in there moving around that is odd I just, I just thought I was going to come in one of these nice little mine is, as far as I can tell, three separate shipments, so you just I don't know how you got.
0:07:12 - Andy Ihnatko
Maybe this is the oh, there you go, look at it's. Maybe the apple pencil is a package of material. Yeah, exactly they're using that as stuffing, that's. It's a multitasker uh, so how? Flexible are these tools that apple makes?
0:07:23 - Mikah Sargent
god bless them let's do this next. So we've got the the nice pull tab on the back again. We can pull and peel. I did not get anything engraved I did.
0:07:33 - Leo Laporte
Do you remember that my last pencil, which I have right here, says dream boy. Do you remember that? No, you, maybe it wasn't you, it wasn't me, because that's funny yeah, dream boy seems like something christina warren would.
0:07:45 - Mikah Sargent
I think maybe megan told me it wasn't me, because that's funny. Yeah, dream boy Seems like something Christina Warren would have you do.
0:07:46 - Leo Laporte
I think maybe Megan told me to get dream boy.
0:07:48 - Mikah Sargent
Oh dream comma boy. See, that makes all the difference.
0:07:50 - Jason Snell
You know, isn't it nice that Apple allows you to etch things on your Apple devices for free. They do that, so you can't resell them, but you can't return them, which is interesting. They have a d etching, apparently nice, this really isn't etched, it's just a dremel.
0:08:08 - Mikah Sargent
So you didn't get anything. You didn't get any personalization. Yeah, I did. It says pencil pro there you go.
0:08:12 - Jason Snell
Oh yeah, very personal. I'm also a pencil pro, I chose that as well.
0:08:15 - Mikah Sargent
Oh nice okay pencil buddies um, I will probably put a um d, not d brand I don't like you're gonna put a skin on all this wrap skin on there. Um, what are you gonna do? What kind?
0:08:27 - Leo Laporte
I will probably get one to match, because you got a vintage, uh, macintosh like an lc or something. Yeah, I like the little vents on the side, so I'll probably get something to match that all right, let's get to the big thing and hope that it's in here, since it came in that weird by the way, I didn't know this, but if you look at it, it says pro let me do it that way.
0:08:46 - Jason Snell
There we go I don't like that art at all I think it's a huge mistake once you see pro, it looks horrible, I get supplied imagery from apple and I try to use it because they take better pictures than me. But, boy, I couldn't use anything with those images on.
0:08:59 - Mikah Sargent
What do you think this is really ugly? It's like representing liquid metal.
0:09:04 - Jason Snell
Liquid metal, you think, the terminator 2 it's a system of tubes it's the abyss.
0:09:10 - Mikah Sargent
All right, here we go and ellen by the way, look at me with my measly 512 gigabyte iPad which which means because it's 512, the two lower storage configurations we think of them as storage configurations, but they're not storage anymore.
0:09:26 - Jason Snell
They're storage and memory and CPU. It's all included, because you lose one performance core and you double the memory.
0:09:37 - Mikah Sargent
That's why they put it in that box. The performance core came out in shipping. It just fell out.
0:09:43 - Leo Laporte
So, John before he knew that bought a 512 gig pro and then he was going to return it and he's decided not to because everybody told him you'll never see the difference.
0:09:55 - Jason Snell
It's probably true, but again, people who know that they need to maximize, especially RAM. Honestly, I think the RAM matters more than anything else 16 gigs versus 8.
0:10:05 - Leo Laporte
It means you can keep so much more.
0:10:07 - Jason Snell
It means that your safari tabs are not going to refresh. It means you're not going to open that app, thinking it's going to spring back to life and this all of those things are uh, all of those things are possible with more ram if you're going to keep this for four, five, six years.
0:10:22 - Andy Ihnatko
that means that features that you might get sourced out of in the next three, four, five versions of ios, that means you'll be able to actually access those and a lot of those AI features are RAM hungry forthcoming AI features, so having 16 gigs of RAM is not a bad idea.
0:10:39 - Jason Snell
To my old God, I really want to get rid of that yeah.
0:10:43 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah. This isn't even as thin as it can get, so jason made an interesting point, because apple touted this 5.1 millimeter thick iPad pro is the thinnest product they've ever made.
0:10:53 - Jason Snell
That's not true well, I think of a product right, sure, the apple card. Um, that's, I think it is thinner I think it's thinner than my apple tv remote that was pretty chunky, maybe the old apple tv the old siri remote.
0:11:06 - Leo Laporte
Jason, you've had this for a while. Yeah, how is this oled screen? How does it?
0:11:09 - Jason Snell
it's. I think it's really good. Um, I saw somebody who said they watched something on netflix uh, I forget what site that was and that they felt it got it. It did some weird things that sounded like a software decoding of hdr problem to me. But I've looked at it and like it's gorgeous and it doesn't do. I'm coming from the 12.9, which itself, um was well, if we're going to check fitness, we got to try it over here.
0:11:32 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, it's slightly thicker even than this one the 12.9.
0:11:35 - Jason Snell
Oh yeah, okay, so this is thicker too.
0:11:37 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it is so, oh my god, we're testing, but that's an old apple remote yeah, I think that's thinner than the new one. The new one's chunkier uh well, so it is the thinnest product they've ever made.
0:11:47 - Jason Snell
Anyway, the old 12.9-inch iPad Pro had the mini LED backlighting, so it was the best iPad Pro screen. It was just on the large model.
0:11:56 - Leo Laporte
And full-array local dimming. They had thousands of LEDs 2,500, I think, local dimming zones.
0:12:01 - Jason Snell
but 2500 local dimming zones is not every single pixel like an oled, but on a screen that size, it's a pretty good it's pretty good. But you know, you people could see blooming and I absolutely could and like in sci-fi stuff where you've got like space fields and you end up with like a little rectangle of the starship that's moving along through the blackness, just explain.
0:12:20 - Leo Laporte
Up to now they've been lcds, yes, which have back lights. They might say led, but they're really led back lights exactly of an lcd screen. These oled screens are direct view, they're emissive pixels and so there's no local dimming because it's all pixel by pixel exactly and and uh, or I guess dual pixel by dual pixel, since this is the tandem oled.
0:12:41 - Jason Snell
That's actually I.
0:12:43 - Leo Laporte
I saw a great youtube video, which I'll point people to, that explained that that Tandem is not something Apple made up.
0:12:49 - Jason Snell
I thought it was. Is that Quinn Nelson's? Yeah, Quinn did a great job on explaining.
0:12:55 - Leo Laporte
This is a standard within OLEDs to make them brighter. There are potential issues because of the gap between the two screens. There's potential refraction going on inside. Apple has made them pretty close and I think that you're not seeing that right, I'm not saying that.
0:13:12 - Jason Snell
In fact, I think, uh, yeah, quinn's point was that this is a thing that's been known, but like it's hard to do and apple it sounds very apple right, apple's like.
0:13:19 - Leo Laporte
No, we will do that we'll do that, we'll engineer that one, but that's how you get 1,000 nits peak brightness.
0:13:24 - Jason Snell
Yeah, well, and what is it? 1,600, 1,400? For HDR, for HDR, and in fact they've tweaked some things in the UI.
0:13:31 - Leo Laporte
I have noticed that every now and then it's a little more high dynamic range than it used to be where there'll be an item that'll be sort of like in the foreground in Stage Manager little bit, and I'm like oh, I see what you're doing there. You're taking advantage of that extra dynamic range. You've got on the, on the tandem oled. This is the snazzy labs. Yeah, build a video. What nobody else told you about tandem, oled and M4 and the other. This is the tandem. The other thing we were talking about, of course, is that the two different M4s, the, the, the break point is one terabyte storage and then you'll get all four. Is that right four?
0:14:04 - Jason Snell
efficiency cores performance cores.
Performance cores there are six efficiency cores. This is one of the big things, so this will be in all of our macs over the next year. But uh, the M4 has two more cpu cores than the m3 did and they're both efficiency cores which are not weak cores. They're pretty powerful, but they are not the full speed. Uh, they're designed to to sip the power from your battery operated devices. So they've got six of those now and then there are four. But if you're using the bind model the two lower end models you only get three of the super high test fast cores.
0:14:38 - Leo Laporte
So that's the big, and then 10 gpu cores on all, on all of them. In fact, the gpu of the M4, even apple says, is basically the same as the GPU on the M3.
0:14:48 - Jason Snell
Right, which on the iPad. They never got the M3, so they didn't get all of the things that they added in the M3, all of the dynamic hardware sort of retracing and shading and things that are there that weren't there before. The CPU also sounds like it is a mild update from the M3. Look, I mean, I'm sure you talked about it last week A lot of what is happening here is happening because they changed their chip process at Taiwan Semiconductor, which makes the chips for Apple, and so they had to make a new chip in order to get off of the one process that they did for one generation. So, you know, but Apple, when they do new chips these days, they update parts of it and leave other parts alone.
So, like you might have a generation where the GPU is basically the same but the CPU is updated, and so in this, you know, they added cores, and what they told me that I think is interesting is, even though they've got the neural engine on there and even though there's also a lot of AI stuff that runs on GPUs, there is some AI stuff that is lightweight enough that it's not worth farming it out. You just want to run it on the CPU and get it over with, and so they added. The one big addition to the CPU cores in M4 is this ability to run AI tasks more efficiently on CPU. So they found a way, like in the spectrum of AI tasks, there were some that were simple enough that it wasn't. There was no point in using the neural engine or the GPU, they just needed to be more efficiently run on CPU and they made that tweak. But it's yeah, it's small stuff, but it's still. I did the the tests. You know this is still another generational whatever 15% speed increase over M3 that's noticeable.
0:16:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and there's another reason for this. The new node is cheaper, so apple can get these chips in greater quantity at a lower price cheaper, more efficient the.
0:16:34 - Jason Snell
The reports said the taiwan semiconductor was basically eating the cost of every failed chip on the old process and that's why they said hey, everybody, new process right we're not doing this anymore.
0:16:44 - Leo Laporte
Guess what Exactly right.
0:16:49 - Jason Snell
Which is why you're seeing a binned chip in the iPad, because now Apple is eating the cost. They're taking the flawed chips and they can use them for a lower cost, but they can take them and reuse them.
0:16:56 - Leo Laporte
So it sounds like and this seems to be the consensus that they're not going to make any more M3 devices at all.
0:17:04 - Jason Snell
I think it's over that they're not going to make any more M3 devices at all.
0:17:06 - Leo Laporte
I think it's over.
0:17:06 - Jason Snell
Yeah, isn't that wild. I think they want to get off of it as soon as possible. It actually makes sense why Mark Gurman reported that everything would be turning over to M4, and sooner than you might think, like this year, is that they are going to try to get everything off of the old three nanometer process. That was a dead end. Because they thought when they did that process, that was a dead end. Because they thought when they did that, tsmc thought that that was going to be the future. And then, as they started to put it into practice, they realized we can't do this. It's not tenable. We need a new system.
And that was a big. I mean. They had to probably go to Apple and have a really awkward conversation saying I know you're our best customer and you bought all of our stock of this thing, but this one's not going to work. We need you to quickly redesign because you can't just port it to the new process. It had to be a complete redesign for the new process because it's just, it's that different. And so clearly TSMC went to Apple and was like, yeah, that M4, bring it on, bring it on fast. We need to get get you on our new process.
0:17:58 - Leo Laporte
So here we are. We were on the they're all three nanometer processes, but we were on the N3B as in boy. They're all three nanometer processes, but we were on the N3B as in boy, Then this is now N3E reduced cost. There will be another one, the N3P. As in Paul, that'll be later this year, but my understanding is that evolves from this new process. It's a shrink, yeah.
0:18:18 - Jason Snell
Whereas the old process, you couldn't just move it along, you had to redesign your whole chip to get off of that process. Which is why which is why, like the iPhones that come out this fall, we'll have a new chip. It'll be based on this process, that old process, everything that's got an M3 in it.
0:18:32 - Leo Laporte
So you tell me, I bought a Celeron basically when I bought my M3 Max.
0:18:36 - Jason Snell
No, you bought a collector's item. Leo, first consumer grade three nanometer process, never to be seen again.
0:18:44 - Leo Laporte
Bye, bye. Here's from a non-tech a year ago, the roadmap, and I don't think it's changed that much. You see, the power improvement is pretty good on all of these, and performance improvement is, you know, I mean it's not huge, but it's something, and so that's what we're going to see thin and uh, and so that's that's uh.
0:19:08 - Jason Snell
That's what we're gonna see. I think the power changes and the fact that they added a new display controller on the chip are the two things that enable the iPad pro to exist. They said the display controller was necessary for them to do the tandem oled but also, um. One of the ways they got these things to be thinner and, I think, more importantly, lighter, is that they got to reduce the battery in them, because the chip is so much more efficient and the screen.
Oleds are more and the screen absolutely, so so, and you can see apple, since the iPad was announced the first time, has always said 10 hours of battery life, like apple for apple, that is the ideal of battery life on the iPad. So when they were able to do this, their immediate thought is not great, we can go to 20 ideal of battery life on the iPad. So when they were able to do this, their immediate thought is not great we can go to 20 hours of battery life. Their immediate thought was let's get a lot of battery out there so that it's lighter, and that's why it's lighter.
0:19:55 - Leo Laporte
You are updating Micah?
0:19:57 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I had to do the update at first. I did want to mention. That's a bummer. John and I both got the Apple Pencil Pro. I and I both got the apple pencil pro. I didn't know they were doing different artwork for the boxes, so we've got pro written in orange and then pro written in this purple and pink color. Collect all 12. Yeah, exactly, I mean. This is why they make all the money. Strangely, he also customized his pencil pro. I'll stop.
0:20:18 - Leo Laporte
I'll stop making that joke mine says leo here from old geezer in our discord wow is uh. On the left is the new iPad pro, on the right is the apple remote. It is, in fact, the thinnest device we've ever made, except for the apple card I enjoy that.
0:20:35 - Jason Snell
Apple got out in front of the the future bend gate and did an interview where they specifically talked about their rigor in building a substructure for this thing so that it won't bend. I mean, anything will bend if you try hard enough, but like that they they were well aware that this is very thin and very wide and that, uh, they built a structure to support that jerry bends everything somebody will bend it also. I love that they. They talked about the fact that they stuffed a lot of like graphite layers in there and the copper on the.
0:21:05 - Leo Laporte
Apple logo in order to radiate more heat as a heat sink. Can you see it? Does it look different?
0:21:10 - Mikah Sargent
No, the frame that helps to provide rigidity is also the heat sink structure as well, and so it kind of takes from the center and takes it out to the sides, which is cool.
0:21:22 - Leo Laporte
Is this the best screen Apple's ever made, or it's basically mac studio?
0:21:26 - Jason Snell
I feel like it is because it's it, because it's oled that puts it up they don't have any other yeah, the mac. Well, on the iphone they do, but like the macbook pro screen is really gorgeous. But this is, you know, this is next level because the brightness it's better than the ones that you'll see on uh iphones, even for now, until the fall probably here from.
0:21:43 - Leo Laporte
Um, who is this from? Uh mac rumors? Is the five different uh boxes there? Uh for pencil.
0:21:52 - Mikah Sargent
So we've got two of them here. Someone trade me this one for that.
0:21:55 - Leo Laporte
There's a calligraphy one I've got the blue one.
0:21:58 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, the blue one you got the blue one.
0:21:59 - Leo Laporte
Well, it's my hope that I will get whatever the heck that black thing is in there.
0:22:06 - Jason Snell
So while we're talking about the pencil, I'll mention um. They added, so we know about barrel roll, right, they also added that squeeze feature. I really liked the haptics. The haptics on this are are there.
I mean they say that it's up in the barrel, but it's like with the track pad, it is this illusion where your brain, just it, feels like you're squeezing the pencil and something's happening, but it's really just vibrating a little bit um, and it comes with some basic things. Uh, in using, if you use, pencil kit, so any drawing app will pick up all sorts of things, including, I think, the best undo that I've ever seen on iPad os, where it's a radial undo. You select undo and then you can actually sort of like dial and watch everything get undone or redone until you find the right point. Very clever.
0:22:48 - Leo Laporte
But it's also third parties. It was digging in paper wasn't it.
0:22:50 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and third party apps can support it fairly easily too. So I got a beta of an app that I use that he hadn't actually even seen it yet, but he built the API in and said, Jason, try this out, see if it works, it totally works.
Nice and try this out. It totally works. Nice and that was really awesome and uh. And then in accessibility, you can also have to do things like just toggle to the eraser. If that's all you want to do, you can just toggle to the eraser. Or and I love this one, this is great the squeeze gesture can also just run a shortcut, so get ready for that.
So you, just, you may not even need a pencil for anything else, but it's just it's just your action button, you just hold it up and squeeze it and see what happens so you're getting 17.5.
0:23:27 - Leo Laporte
Actually, you already got it. That was pretty quick.
0:23:29 - Jason Snell
Yeah, that's the update we all got in this couple of days yeah, the build that I've got is slightly older than that, so I'm gonna have to run an update too. I'm running a 17.5, but it's like a previous build yeah, the reviewer editorial.
0:23:42 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's the secret build secret. Yeah, the special build, yeah, the one where everything runs fast.
0:23:46 - Jason Snell
Actually I talked to somebody at Apple. I'm like this seems weird and they're like yeah, that's fixed in the final shipping update.
0:23:51 - Leo Laporte
Just wait a couple days, oh, interesting. So there are a couple of bugs in that first.
0:23:54 - Jason Snell
Yeah, yeah, it's just a pre-build for reviewers.
0:24:07 - Leo Laporte
It was, uh, between your old 11 in the screen, excuse me, in the screen. Yes, absolutely, um, now it is. Are you gonna back up from backup or are you gonna start fresh?
0:24:11 - Mikah Sargent
well, I will. Eventually, when I am home with this thing, I will back up from a backup or I will use um restore.
0:24:18 - Jason Snell
Yeah, restore from backup, exactly but for this purpose you're just kind of blasting we, just so you get it exactly, yeah the contrast from the 11 it looks.
0:24:26 - Leo Laporte
I have to say the 11 inch is so cute it is I'm kind of jealous I I I'm a typing snob, okay.
0:24:34 - Jason Snell
So I typed on it and I thought it's a little cramped. I don't think so, but then I closed it and like held it like a laptop and I'm like, oh, it's so tiny like that's what it's really got going for it. It is tinier than any laptop Apple currently makes right.
0:24:49 - Mikah Sargent
Because they don't make an 11-inch.
0:24:50 - Jason Snell
MacBook Air anymore.
0:24:51 - Mikah Sargent
The little MacBook Air. What size was that? That was 11. The 11? Yeah, I love that little thing. I love that Dan and I both use it.
0:24:57 - Jason Snell
Yeah, so this has got strong 11-inch MacBook Air vibes about it, but the the the keys are a little cramped, but it's still pretty nice I'm now thinking I maybe I should get the uh 11 inch instead. I don't know you got it. You got 11 to the left and uh, what's interesting is this is really a laptop.
0:25:15 - Leo Laporte
This is a macbook air. It is. It is other than the os.
0:25:18 - Jason Snell
It is functionally everything else the hardware, the weight, the keyboard.
0:25:22 - Leo Laporte
It's pretty much a macbook, yeah I have a macbook air, but this is uh and andy. You and I love our, our iPad minis. We hope they'll be updated later this year. This is kind of a mini, I bet pro. It's kind of an interesting yeah size. That's why you wanted to go. I wanted it, yeah, because I wasn't just because you want to be different from me. No, well, that too it helps. Let me see, let me feel it.
0:25:46 - Mikah Sargent
But what I love, the reason why this MacBook Air is my favorite Mac that I've ever owned, is because it is small and portable and still very powerful. But I can always go to my studio if I you know, to the Mac studio if I want to do more Wow.
0:26:12 - Leo Laporte
Studio is a hard word to say studio, I should just start talking like connery, then you will never know.
0:26:14 - Jason Snell
But yeah, isn't this nice? It's just a nice little guy, it's a little guy. It's just a little guy and that's a big guy. Yeah, andy, any any temptation from you for something like an 11 inch air or pro probably not, because I'm more the things I would use an 11 inch for.
0:26:27 - Andy Ihnatko
I would much rather use a mini, for I won't rehash what I said last week, but it's like, if I have room for, if I have room for a real computing device, I got room for I'm carrying a laptop bag or a satchel. What I really want is something that's really tiny enough that I don't have to take anything that's like a laptop bag at all, have to take anything that's like a laptop bag at all. It's the sort of thing where I'm just packing a bag to carry a bottle of water, a spare jacket, a charger for my phone, whatever paperback I'm reading, and, oh well, I got room for an iPad that runs the latest operating system and maybe a Bluetooth keyboard. Why don't I take those along with me?
0:27:00 - Leo Laporte
It is iPad Pro Day on MacBreak Weekly. I'm glad we moved to Wednesday. It worked out pretty well. Jason Snell is here. He's got his 13-inch. It's really just 12.9, right they just call it 13?
0:27:12 - Jason Snell
It is slightly larger, but basically they've decided to round everything up, just round it up.
0:27:16 - Leo Laporte
Why shouldn't?
0:27:17 - Jason Snell
They should have done it years ago.
0:27:18 - Leo Laporte
So he's got his 13-inch MacBook Pro M4 edition iPad Pro. I'm sorry, iPad Pro and you put in or this is an Apple loaner.
0:27:26 - Jason Snell
So is this two terabyte.
0:27:28 - Leo Laporte
This is one One. Okay, so that's one terabyte, 16 gigs of RAM and four performance cores.
0:27:34 - Jason Snell
And all four performance cores to go with the six. Think about the context of a 10 core CPU, I know, and a 10 core GPU.
0:27:43 - Mikah Sargent
I know.
0:27:45 - Jason Snell
In a tablet, this little thing, yeah.
0:27:47 - Leo Laporte
Let me feel how it does. Oh, you know, it's funny because it's one and a quarter pounds, but because it's so thin, it feels like it's lighter, yeah, doesn't it?
0:27:57 - Jason Snell
It spreads it over the range.
0:28:00 - Leo Laporte
Oh, it's beautiful. Wow, the screen is noticeably better. The screen, it's beautiful. Wow, the screen is noticeably better. The screen is really good, noticeably better. Um, uh, we also have micah sergeant in-house. He has the 11 inch iPad pro and you got one terabyte. I have 512 oh you decided to go with the uh somewhat, yeah because I got it before.
0:28:23 - Mikah Sargent
I knew, yeah, that it was diminished. You could return it.
0:28:25 - Leo Laporte
It's not too late, you could.
0:28:27 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I just want to have it on day one.
0:28:28 - Leo Laporte
Or you could take mine and I could give you mine, because he wants the 11-inch now I want the little tiny boy. It's so cute, it's so cute Look at it. So you have the 8 gigs of RAM and the three performance cores. There is a fourth performance core in there, but it's got a big X on its eyes.
0:28:46 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, over its eyes exactly. It's just sitting there.
0:28:49 - Leo Laporte
And that's what we call a binned chip, and chip manufacturers have been going on for years. That's where the Celeron came from is companies would make chips. They wouldn't all be fully functional. Some would operate at lower speeds and at lower voltages, some parts might be missing and they would have bins that the testers would go. This one goes in this bin. This one goes in this bin. This one goes in this bin. Binning chips is a little bit new to the Apple world. I think it's brand new to the iPad world. I don't think they've ever been to before. But that just shows you that they're making. These are the same chips, but they're not as fully functional because they can't be. That's all. They just can't. And Andy and Akko and I are sitting here empty handed but full of lust.
0:29:36 - Andy Ihnatko
Well, no, I'll simply say that I've got. I've got my M1 iPad pro acting as a second screen for my MacBook here. An investment in a MacBook is a good long-term investment for me.
0:29:46 - Leo Laporte
Yes, I agree, I agree, I agree and honestly, if I didn't want to try the new stuff and review it for the shows, if I weren't covering the subject, I probably wouldn't upgrade my M1 iPad Pro. It's still pretty good. Yeah, we'll have more in just a little bit with our panel of experts. You're watching a special Wednesday edition of MacBreak Weekly Today's show, brought to you by Melissa.
We've talked about them before. They're the data quality experts before your very eyes, in fact, as much as a third in every year. But that means it's going to cost you money because you're going to be sending mailers to the wrong people You're not going to be. You know you might have duplicates in there. Melissa fixes all of that. Melissa's truly global. Their global address verification and validation service verifies addresses for 240 plus countries and territories. I didn't even know there were that many. And that means Melissa saves you money. They improve deliverability, they reduce costly errors, they boost your address data accuracy, increase delivery speed. They boost your ROI in a whole bunch of ways. In fact, the return on investment is one of the things that Melissa takes very seriously. That's why they offer free trials and sample codes and flexible pricing. They're a business like you and they understand you have to maximize the value. You can also be reassured that your data is in very good hands.
Melissa has achieved the highest level of security status by gaining Fed Ramp authorization. You don't get any better than that. Now Fed Ramp is for governmental agencies Good news if you're a governmental agency. But everybody who uses Melissa automatically gains that superior level of security. You'll be glad to know. Melissa's solutions and services are also GDPR CCPA compliant. They made SOC 2 and HIPAA high trust standards for information security management. I mean, the bottom line on that is your data is in very, very good hands.
You can try Melissa in a variety of ways on-prem SaaS API. You can even try their free Melissa lookups apps. They're available again free on iOS and Android. You don't even have to sign up. But it's a great way to kind of see what Melissa can do. Validate addresses and personal identities in the US or Canada. It does even more. You can check global phone numbers, global IP address information and more. Get started today with 1,000 records cleaned for free at Melissacom. That's melissa.com/twit. That's melissa.com/twit. We thank Melissa so much for supporting MacBreak Weekly jason, you told me before the show began.
I don't know if I'm secrets breaking confidentiality oh boy, we were talking about the nano texture screen can you say what?
0:32:42 - Jason Snell
you told me yeah, um, I got the strong impression from people at apple last week when I was talking to them that the way that they have said the nano texture screen is basically you know if you need it and otherwise you don't need it. Because I see a lot of people sort of like, oh, but anti-glare, it's like what. The way they put it to me is if you're out in the field, if you're like a pro, right, like a, like a cinemat, it to me is if you're out in the field, if you're like a pro, like a cinematographer or a photographer, and you're outdoors doing a lot of work where you really need to see details and you can't because you're swamped by the sunlight, yeah, that's what that nanotexture is for. But if you're just like hey, sometimes there's a light bulb near me and it glares and I don't like it, don't buy it, because you're going to spend more money and you're going to lose because of the diffusion that happens when they treat that glass. You are going to lose some of the blackness and some of the brightness because the light is all going to scatter.
So, like, unless you really need it, don't do it. And I would argue, if you're really worried about it. The beautiful thing is you can get it without and then you can add a paper-like or some other kind of screen protector, if it really comes to that. But I thought that was interesting. Where they did not try to oversell it, they were like no, no, no, no, no. This is really a professional's gave us feedback that they wanted it better, even if it impacted the quality of the display a little bit I have to say and I don't know if this helps that, but the off-axis viewing on your oled is spectacular.
I'm almost 90 degrees off axis when you picked it up and held it, I could I could see just how amazing it is so that if privacy is an issue, maybe you do want the nanotech I don't know or a privacy filter yeah, probably if you're on an airplane with somebody.
0:34:25 - Mikah Sargent
They can easily see what you're doing yeah, it's look over and they're watching the movie with you.
0:34:30 - Leo Laporte
I think it's not as good for the LCD. No, I don't think it is. No no, that's remarkable, I would say. The color is every bit as good from the side as it is from the front.
0:34:39 - Jason Snell
Yeah.
0:34:40 - Leo Laporte
I don't know if that's a tandem.
0:34:42 - Jason Snell
OLED thing. It's a good display. It's not true of all OLEDs.
0:34:45 - Leo Laporte
We have this just in a picture. Burke has obtained a micrograph of the special three performance core version of the M4 chip.
0:34:55 - Jason Snell
It's got a little tongue. The X's on the eyes mean it's dead.
0:34:58 - Mikah Sargent
It's dead, Jim Okay.
0:35:03 - Leo Laporte
Don't rub this in Poor Micah.
0:35:05 - Mikah Sargent
He's already said that already I can see it, I can see, look, it's right so you've been, I don't think it's dead, I just think it's drunk.
0:35:11 - Andy Ihnatko
I think everyone's trying to cover up for you. It's a bill for his. You know that's right. Um, we're not. We shouldn't be enabling these cpus, I'm telling you.
0:35:21 - Jason Snell
I agree oh yeah, Jim Sure Core number four thinks it's a functional alcoholic, but it is not.
0:35:29 - Andy Ihnatko
So all the performance cores, all the CPU cores, we've created this die of love and support to let you know A little intervention for CPU4.
0:35:39 - Leo Laporte
Yep, so you're playing with the. What is it? Pencil 3? Is that what we call it? Apple Pencil Pro, apple Pencil Pro, apple Pencil Pro so a couple of things.
0:35:46 - Mikah Sargent
First and foremost, this is my first time using Apple Pencil Hover. I have not had an iPad that has Hover and I think it's actually kind of cool. It caught me off guard at first.
0:35:58 - Leo Laporte
But the bigger thing You're not touching the screen, but something pops up.
0:36:00 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, up, yeah, and I don't know if anyone I'm sure people have picked up on this. There's a shadow that appears behind the pencil to let you know.
0:36:09 - Leo Laporte
Oh, look at that I can see it do you see that movie?
0:36:11 - Mikah Sargent
that's digital. That's digital holy camoly. So that way you know how you're holding your pencil.
0:36:17 - Leo Laporte
Okay, I know that seems like a little thing, but somebody put some time and effort into making that work especially for the calligraphy options.
0:36:24 - Jason Snell
Yeah, the barrel roll really does make a lot. Make, uh, the hover, make more sense, because you need the preview to see what angle you're holding. That's right. The pencil although I've also seen like there was, there was some I don't know whether it's procreate where they they put a a like a spin filter on the barrel roll so that you could actually like put it down and then spin it to do like a twirl.
0:36:47 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, that's cool.
0:36:48 - Jason Snell
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that Right, so you can actually like sort of move it and slide it and watch as it does a twirl.
0:36:53 - Mikah Sargent
I can't wait to see we can't wait to see what you do with it. I love seeing how developers make use of this. I already have been reading the developer documentation for the updates to Pencil Kit and they are giving Apple is giving a lot of control to developers with Pencil Kit, with the new Pencil Pro, so I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of interesting interactions that you might not expect when it comes to this, like being able to use that barrel roll to actually change what is the? Not the Z axis, but Y rotation.
0:37:26 - Jason Snell
The width of the brush. Yeah, yeah, so you're going to have a non-circular brush.
0:37:31 - Leo Laporte
You're more like me as an artist.
0:37:33 - Jason Snell
Oh yeah, mike is drawing something. I'm just making junk on a page, I don't know why.
0:37:37 - Leo Laporte
I buy these pencils every time they seem so cool, but I'm not an artist, yeah.
0:37:42 - Jason Snell
I mean, it depends on what you're using. I found out that Fair Art Recording Studio, the podcast editing app, is great. It's great to edit audio using a pencil, with a pencil, right and there are.
0:37:50 - Leo Laporte
I've seen some touch targets that are a little small for me to hit, even in just the native iPad OS that a pencil helps with a little bit. I can't get over how good the off-axis is on that OLED.
0:38:06 - Jason Snell
You're just seeing everything. It's gorgeous, even at 90 degrees.
0:38:08 - Leo Laporte
It's amazing my little, my little hobbiton. Uh photo is beautiful there. Yeah, um what else anything you notice you're trying scribble well.
0:38:17 - Mikah Sargent
So I put the pencil on the top and now it's making me go through. Oh, that's right, apple pencil now has fine, you know what?
0:38:23 - Leo Laporte
let's do it okay, john, take his pencil and hide it let me okay john ashley is uh running down and he's gonna take that close your eyes. Close your eyes, don't look. John is now hiding micah's apple pencil. Round and round she goes. Okay, you can look now.
0:38:48 - Mikah Sargent
Now I'll open up, find my okay. Oh, don't show this yet, because it's got all sorts of stuff okay, what's new?
0:38:54 - Jason Snell
and find my there's micah's home address, his phone, his mom's number.
0:38:59 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, okay there we go now. There we are, now you're looking for stuff apple pencil oh it's here choose. Find nearby.
0:39:06 - Leo Laporte
Okay, rotate to portrait there's no uwb in the pencil though your item is closed, so keep moving around.
0:39:12 - Mikah Sargent
Okay, I'm gonna have to get up, so yeah go ahead, take a walk it's very exciting just a way of getting rid of him.
0:39:17 - Leo Laporte
Don't tell him uh, so it doesn't have uwb and it doesn't make sounds. I don't understand how it even is. It is a bluetooth strength that it's using.
0:39:25 - Jason Snell
I think it's bluetooth.
0:39:26 - Leo Laporte
I think it's using yeah, yeah, it's it says your item is very close uwb, it knows exactly left or right but, it's just getting a signal that works really amazing. Better than if you've used find my lately. It's better than nothing, it really uh, it's you know it's okay, you're getting warm.
0:39:41 - Mikah Sargent
Works great with the airpods, you're warm. You're getting warm, works great with the AirPods, you're warm. Apple Watch, now you're cold.
0:39:47 - Leo Laporte
That's what we really need.
0:39:48 - Jason Snell
Nope, nope.
0:39:50 - Leo Laporte
Still no updated Final Cut or Logic or Final Cut camera right. These are going to be updated to take advantage.
0:39:58 - Jason Snell
They should be updated shortly and most of those features are on Mac and iPad. Okay, I thought there was a big difference between Final on Mac and iPad. Okay.
0:40:06 - Leo Laporte
I thought there was a big difference between Final Cut iPad and Final Cut Mac.
0:40:10 - Jason Snell
There is some, but it's getting closer. But a lot of the features, especially all those logic features, got added on both Mac and iPad. The multicam thing is an iPad-only feature for Final Cut, which is, I think that's going to not be necessarily a super professional kind of tool, but as a aspirational tool. The fact that you could get together with four friends and set up a multicamera shoot with just an iPad and their iPhones, that's interesting, right? That's really interesting. Instead of having to bring rent a bunch of cameras or whatever, you could really just sort of like take some tripods with little attachments or just have people handheld and suddenly you've got a multi-camera environment.
0:40:53 - Leo Laporte
So Apple I didn't realize this on Monday released the updates for Logic Pro for Mac and iPad. Oh, they do. So all those AI features that they mentioned at the event are now available. So it's Final Cut we're still waiting for, and Final Cut Camera. Those should come out, though, soon.
0:41:09 - Jason Snell
I would think so.
0:41:09 - Leo Laporte
So AI is, of course, going to be the topic of the day at WWDC, June 10th. We think. Sure, no one knows. We think. Is there any way to test local AI on this now? Not yet.
0:41:24 - Jason Snell
I would say not. I mean, I'm sure there's apps that do it, core ML apps.
0:41:28 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, apps that feature core ML, but that's the extent. So, for example, what they showed was Pixelmator, and there are a few apps that do generative AI that have made use of core ML. Your best bet is to kind of do a search for you know core ml apps essentially uh cool, so we'll play with that.
0:41:50 - Leo Laporte
You just got yours. Yeah, I'm able to play with it, uh, but you will be covering it, I'm sure, next tuesday on ios 100. Today with rosemary orchard.
0:41:57 - Mikah Sargent
Rosemary, unfortunately unable to get an iPad right away because they weren't available for sale. Okay, but does have.
0:42:04 - Leo Laporte
Sadly, I, or not sadly the accessories the pencil and the case. Yeah, I hate it when that happens. I've got a package from apple. It's a watch band iphone case. All right, all right. What else have we got to talk about with the?
0:42:23 - Mikah Sargent
well, it's only one. Did we mention it's only one camera? Now, I was curious. Jason, do you have any thoughts?
0:42:28 - Jason Snell
about that. I have literally never used the ultra wide camera on the back of my m1 iPad pro uh jason said that in his, in his review he's got a very good review, by the way just like shrug, I can shrug it off of uh, because, like I don't think it matters.
I don't know why they did it, um, whether it was to offset some of the cost, whether they realized nobody was using it and they didn't need to have it there. Whether it reduced the number of things in the device so that they could make it thinner and lighter. I don't know why. It's an interesting question Apple's not saying but I never used it and I suspect they know that most people didn't use it. And it wasn't a differentiator, because they kept the LiDAR sensor, they upgraded the flash, but the ultra-wide camera, you know, they just whacked it.
0:43:13 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I didn't use it either. I was happy to see the front-facing camera move to the side. That's cool, and I imagine that's going to be the case for iPads going forward. That's been nice.
0:43:28 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, there was a good. Harry McCracken had a good interview with JAWS and the head of hardware. Basically, that reveal a couple of things that they know about the iPad going forward, one of which is that OK, I know that the very very start we imagine people holding it like a piece of paper. At the very very start we imagine people holding it like a piece of paper. Most people hold it sideways like a screen and therefore everything that they're doing is sort of moving towards making sure that it works great horizontally. The other interesting thing from that discussion came from. There were a bunch of people who were talking about the question of well, why aren't you making a touchscreen Mac? And JAWS had the comment that most Mac users also own an iPad. So they feel as though if those people who are hungry for touchscreens are buying a second device for that, and so long as Apple gets them to spend like $1,000 plus $2,000, that's much better than one device that only costs $1,500 bucks. So that's probably not going to happen anytime soon yeah, although I would.
0:44:28 - Jason Snell
I would say it's a marketing thing to sell products, because it's it's two guys who are doing product marketing and apple. Right, apple will follow that trajectory until it decides it doesn't want to anymore and then it will change. But yeah, that's, that's the story that they're telling right now, and it may be the truth, um we'll see it's.
0:44:44 - Andy Ihnatko
I mean mean it's. It's hard to say. I mean I don't. I don't know if you had the same experience, but talking to people like inside Apple for the past 10 years, they're really at least until the last two or three years they really seem to be a very dogmatic thing about it, where they're not, as as though they're not even considering touchscreens on Macs. Because why would you do that? Why, why would you put chocolate on a pretzel? That's stupid. That's crazy. That's a sweet thing and a savory thing. That's crazy.
And even though there are people still arguing for it, it seems as though it faces a lot of internal again, dogmatic problems saying that, no, there's a reason why touchscreens on Windows laptops sell very well. There's a reason why hybrid devices sell very well, obviously in a much larger market, but it's not as though tablets are stupid. It's not as though you can't create a desktop operating system that doesn't integrate a touchscreen very, very well. I think that a big problem is just going to be philosophy. But, as you say, there's no question that they've actually made these things inside the labs and that they're going to. It'll be true, it'll be dogma until suddenly it isn't right mark german says there that a touchscreen macbook pro is coming.
0:45:54 - Jason Snell
And what will that be and how will they really?
0:45:56 - Mikah Sargent
I can't wait to hear that story whenever that coming seems like he said 2025, but yeah he says that that's the plan is a touchscreen MacBook Pro.
0:46:04 - Jason Snell
What will that story be? What will the OS root visions be for something like that? That's all, yeah. That'll be fascinating to see, Because there is that moment I mean, Jobs is famous for this too right that moment where Apple says Deny, deny, deny. Yeah, you deny until you've got it, and then you say well, yes, of course, this is it all along stylus all this time. Yeah, ipods can play video.
0:46:24 - Mikah Sargent
now Something that's kind of catching me off guard. Typically, after a hardware launch day, the app store will shift and you'll see here are the best apps to take advantage of the new iPad or here are the best apps to take advantage of the new iPhone. I'm not seeing any of that in the app store. Did developers not get as much time to work with this new system? It just catches me off guard. Or, more likely, there was nothing they could do.
0:46:51 - Jason Snell
No developers could do anything other than the special developers who got behind-the-scenes access. Everybody else heard about it when we heard about it, so it'll take time. Like I said, I got a build of an app.
0:47:00 - Mikah Sargent
What would they do? That would be Mostly with the pencil and the pencil stuff.
0:47:04 - Jason Snell
The pencil apis are yeah.
0:47:05 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, exactly, that's about it and you know again the fact that they talked about core ml, so much we could see some updates there. But yeah, I think the pencils I I just I got, you know, procreate and I uh looked to see if anything else at all had anything and it doesn't really special partners got the access so I don't remember if it was you, jason.
0:47:26 - Jason Snell
Somebody said okay, everybody dust off your iPad reviews from last year and the year before, and I mean it's not that different I literally went back to my first iPad pro review from 2015 and in it I absolutely say things that are that continue to be true today, because even the first iPad Pro with the button on it in 2015, I said this hardware is amazing, but and the but is always the operating system Because as much as okay. So I stopped trying to make the iPad Pro my travel system when Apple Silicon happened and I got a great M1 and MacBook Air and I was like, okay, I'm going to just travel with an iPad and a MacBook Air and I'm not going to try to do all of my work when I travel on an iPad. So it's been a few years, it's been four years, and so spending the last five or six days trying to do that again. I was reminded absolutely, iPados is further along than it used to be.
It used to be you couldn't plug in an external drive and see the files right drive and see the files right. And you can do that now and you can move them around. And Stage Manager, while it has quirks, is a multi-windowing system that you can turn on. It behaves because they shipped the Magic Keyboard in 2020. They have better keyboard integration. They have better trackpad integration.
0:48:38 - Leo Laporte
We forget they didn't even have a trackpad, the cursor didn't, or a cursor for the longest time.
0:48:42 - Jason Snell
Outside of accessibility. The cursor didn't exist before 2020. The magic keyboard didn't exist before 2020. So it's come a long way. The problem is Apple's hardware, and this is the thing I don't want to get lost. When I criticize iPadOS for moving slowly, is I'm criticizing because it's moving more slowly than Apple's hardware and processor design, because they are killing it, Like I mean. That's the thing is, this is an amazing piece of hardware and the iPad pro has been a leader in terms of Apple's creativity and, uh, excellence in designing hardware, designing hardware. But for the company that lives at the corner of technology and liberal arts but they also live at the corner of hardware and software and, I guess, services maybe it's a roundabout now.
Um, a big intersection, the the fact is, if you look at, uh, the last five or ten years, apple's hardware prowess is undaunted, yeah, and their operating system prowess is questionable to some degree.
0:49:36 - Leo Laporte
You could even say that about vision pro.
0:49:37 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and you could say it about a bit of hardware yeah, and the same about, um, a bunch of stuff that has sort of been static in mac os.
0:49:43 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I mean how's that new calculator, though it's pretty nice uh, no, new calculator is not there yet.
0:49:48 - Jason Snell
That's that's. That's going to be a new. Oh, you need a whole new os in order to add a calculator. So so it's. You know, it's not that iPad os isn't progressing, it's that iPad os isn't progressing very fast compared to the hardware.
The hardware, for since 2015, has always done more than the software has been able to do, and there was a time in the mid 2010s where it felt like Apple was investing in the iPad because they thought it would be the future of productivity on the desktop and that the Mac was going to be a legacy operating system that faded away. But at some point they went. They switched the Mac to Apple Silicon and it went really well. And they they did all the underpinnings of the operating system so that the Mac could run iPad apps and they could do Catalyst and they could do all these things to bring all their iOS software over to the Mac, so they didn't have to rewrite it. Suddenly, the Mac's much more relevant and there's a real crisis, I think, of faith in the iPad, which is what is it? What's it for, and is it a computing device like a Mac, or is it just a thing that you sit on the couch and watch movies and check your email, and I think that either path is fine.
My question is like I priced this. Um, I priced a version of this that I would buy before the show and it was $2,500 because it's the. It's the one terabyte model with a keyboard and the pencil. It's $2,500 to create this thing and it does. It's unique, it's a convertible that Apple doesn't offer a convertible laptop. So this is it. Like all of that is great, but like for that, I kind of want to be able to just use this as my laptop, and it can't, and that's that's. My issue is like, why is there an iPad pro? Why does it cost $2,500, $3,000 if you trick it out with all the laptop stuff? That's my question. It's like if you're going to do that, do you want to serve that audience? Because if they don't, that's fine, but I'm not sure why the $3,000 iPad is around.
0:51:34 - Leo Laporte
There is one reason Luca Mastri might like, which is that every app on the iPad gives 30% of its profits to Apple.
0:51:43 - Jason Snell
But that doesn't explain why they've been so slow to update iPadOS.
0:51:50 - Leo Laporte
And right that it's still lacking in things like Maybe they should do more with it because it's profitable.
0:51:52 - Jason Snell
Because, bottom line I mean I've theorized they sell more iPads than Macs they do at a lower selling price. But yeah, they do Absolutely. So I mean, Federico Vatici on Mac Stories wrote a story because he didn't get the review unit. It was going to come too late, so he spent his weekend writing the definitive. When we talk about all the things that iPad OS doesn't do, I hear from a lot of people who just use their iPad on the couch and they're like what do you mean? It's fine, it's like okay. Well, people who don't use the iPad as much think it's fine. People who use it a lot, no, it's not Okay. So Federico, who uses it more than anyone, went through the list and some of these are fairly basic. The file manager isn't very good. It's missing a bunch of apps. The desktop class apps are not really desktop class. There are no support for background tasks.
0:52:36 - Leo Laporte
That's a big one. If you start rendering a video in Final Cut and switch out of it, it stops. It's an.
0:52:41 - Jason Snell
M4 with 16 gigs of RAM, and if you leave Final Cut Pro while it's exporting, it cancels because it can't run in the background. Even if you've got a multi-windowing, it goes for things like you've got a Stream Deck here. Well, the way Stream Deck works is that there's a little background app that runs that lets you kick things off.
You can't do that on iPadOS. There are no global keyboard shortcuts for apps, right, and all of these decisions were made because iPadOS is really iOS. It came from the iPhone in 2007. They had no battery, they had no RAM. They were desperate and they made this system.
The problem is, yeah, that they've been making an iPad Pro for nine years and some of this stuff that is not like we're asking for. You know rocket science. It's things like oh, things should probably be able to run in the background. When I'm listening to music and I go into an app that uses the microphone or I tap on a video in social media, my music shouldn't stop, but it stops. Why? Because on iPhone OS back in 2007, they were like oh, no, no, no, we can only play one thing at a time, and they've never changed it. So can only play one thing at a time and they've never changed it. So that's.
The challenge here is that they don't have to do everything. They don't have to make the iPad, the Mac, but it frustrates me to see them make hardware of this class and realize the whole litany of things that they have not built into the operating system that I don't think are esoteric superpower user features. I think that they're sort of like fundamental computer features that would allow a whole new class of utilities to be in the app store and they can take their 30% and all of that. But they haven't done it. And so that's my question is what is the priority here? Because you're making amazing hardware, but the software still is just, it's just, it's just not there. It's just not there. And to be a pro or even prosumer level piece of hardware, you need some flexibility. You need to be able to add those little utilities and those little add-ons and have that kind of functionality and iPadOS. When you hit the brick wall, you hit it hard and there's nowhere to go from there.
0:54:38 - Leo Laporte
For us as podcasters. We know how we would want to use it and we can.
0:54:43 - Jason Snell
Yeah, the audio subsystem, which leads to the more general thing of you're playing music and you tap on a video on threads and forget it. The music just stops, and then you have to go get it later because you don't. Where did it go? It just stopped. And then that also affects us, where you can't just record a microphone in one app and then use it in Zoom. It can't be done how could two apps use a microphone at the same time?
0:55:05 - Leo Laporte
We remember Andy's travails at the Boston Public Library with his iPad. Just two weeks ago. So Gruber, I think, was trying to get a little bit of a different take on it.
0:55:16 - Jason Snell
Yes, speaking of people who don't use the iPad.
0:55:19 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of more like a Lexus to a Toyota it's just got a nicer finish and it's foolish to expect it to operate like a lexus to a toyota, like it's just got a nicer fit and finish, and it's foolish to expect it to operate like his argument like a mac is it is.
0:55:30 - Jason Snell
It costs all that money, especially if you buy the keyboard, because you're just buying it because it's nicer.
It's a bmw. I mean, I would say that that is the kind of argument you make when you have no other arguments left to you. I I mean again, I love john. I saw him last week. He's a great guy. Um, he's a guy who doesn't get the iPad. He doesn't really use the iPad, he doesn't really care about it, and a lot of the people who are saying it's fine really are people who don't try to use it.
0:55:54 - Leo Laporte
He does make the point, though and I think this is a good point that it is very popular, as is right, but not the iPad pro not the pro, so much not the iPad pro like the iPad, because that's the thing is, like there are different kinds of iPads.
0:56:07 - Jason Snell
If apple were to say the iPad is not a professional operating system, it's just a big, nice tablet and we sell it, you know, at at lower prices. But when they make a 350 keyboard, yeah, and a a thousand fifteen hundred two thousand dollar tablet and then they and they call it pro and then they sell it like, I do think it suggests a level of commitment to that kind of user that they can't back up, I'm sorry.
0:56:32 - Mikah Sargent
I just, I just had to have a moment here what happened to your iPad? You went back to your laptop. Well, it's because I remember I had to do a quick install so I don't have all my stuff. But what made me laugh is just getting perspective on the fact of what you just said a $350 keyboard, $350 keyboard that's ridiculous, you're sitting up front.
0:56:55 - Jason Snell
Yours is about 300. You're sitting in the first class seats.
0:56:58 - Leo Laporte
That's all there is to it.
0:56:59 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I mean that there's truth in that, because we know In other product categories people buy MacBook Pros because they're the nicer. They got a nicer screen and they're nicer.
0:57:10 - Leo Laporte
OLED alone might sell a lot of them.
0:57:12 - Jason Snell
At this point. A lot of our technology devices are so powerful that most people will never take advantage of that power. So there is some truth in that. But I guess I look at the iPad Pro and I think I just don't buy it. I think that that is a very high end product with high end specs. There are other products in that product line, so this is the. I think it's an existential crisis for the iPad pro. It continues to be. You know, what does apple want it to be?
0:57:36 - Leo Laporte
basically you're buying a hundred thousand dollar car that can only go 35 miles an hour on the freeway. I mean, yeah, it's luxurious, right or it's not street legal yeah well, people do that.
0:57:47 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, people do that, um andy yeah, I mean it's it's way too. The iPad pro is way too expensive to be that annoying that regularly. That's just my point of view, that it's it's. It does some things extremely well. It would do those things even better if it were a mac. You know, and you don't want to put Mac.
0:58:08 - Leo Laporte
OS on an iPad, though do you?
0:58:10 - Andy Ihnatko
No, no, what I, what I want is for Apple, 10 years ago, to decide that they did not necessarily have to have this big bifurcation between a tablet OS and a multi-touch OS and a desktop OS. They could be, with 10 years worth of progress, have a device so that we would still have a $329 iPad that the people who just like surf the web on the sofa, read books, watch movies in an airline seat would love, and they would think it was absolutely perfect, with all the limitations that has. But the rest of us, instead of spending $2,000, $2,500 on a top of the line iPad, in addition to already owning like a $2,000 MacBook, would be buying a really, really wonderful convertible or just something with a touchscreen. I just I see the failure of Apple to make the right bet 10 years ago. I mean, hindsight is 20-20, but I don't think that they just simply made an alternate choice. I think they just made a bad choice.
0:59:02 - Leo Laporte
Do you think they're committed now? Do you think they can make up for the lost time?
0:59:08 - Andy Ihnatko
Not really, because they already have so much. The iPad Pro is already such a really well put together product for what it is, and if it is true that people are not necessarily making a choice between a MacBook and an iPad, then it's not really quite so important for them to move on that. It's just that it just seems very, very clumsy that you still have an iPad that has so many limitations on it. That seems so artificial. I mean, the list that Jason cited is absolutely stunning and it's basically a list of every person who loves their iPad, who has ever been stabbed in the back by their iPad. Look on that menu. You will find the menu item. You'll find the item on that list that stabbed them in the back for it, and so much of this just seems absolutely artificial. There's so many. There's so many like even plain old Android.
Okay, when they changed their design language, the UI design language, to material design, they came up with something that I thought was absolutely brilliant, because nothing on this user interface looks like it's locked into touch. Excuse me, nothing If you're using it on a phone, using it on a tablet without a keyboard or a mouse attached. Nothing about it seems like nothing that it's designed for anything other than simply touch only. But as soon as it senses you've got a mouse connected to it without any changes really to the UI, suddenly, all these beautiful little items on the screen are now obviously click targets, and the navigating between things on the keyboard are so easy, and so to me, that puts paid to the idea that no, no, no, you can't have a toaster fridge. No, that's just something you made up because you didn't want to really address the complaint.
I think that it could be possible. I think Apple could have done something that transcended what Android did by times 10. But they simply again made this dogmatic decision that we are going to have two different operating systems. One is going to be touched, one is not going to be touch and that's it. And I think they're paying the price right now.
1:01:11 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I think so. I also do think that there was a moment where they thought they were going to put the Mac on an ice floe and make the iPad more Mac-lite and then they changed their mind for maybe some good reasons. I'm a Mac user, I love the Mac. I wouldn't want the Mac to go into legacy mode, where it just stayed on Intel and didn't get any new features and it just was kind of out there. But yeah, I think the challenge with this is I hear from a lot of people, when we say we think the iPad OS should be better, who say it's just an iPad. You know, just get a Mac, use a Mac. If you want to use that, it's fine.
And what's funny and Federico alludes to this in his article too is, you know, in the late 2010s, when they had the butterfly keyboard and the USB-C and all of that, a lot of those people weren't saying it's fine, they were complaining Right. And the reason is because what Apple does is worth criticizing. We don't need to be sitting here if everything Apple says is gospel Right and doesn't need to be criticized. And one of the jobs that we have as observers of technology and as observers of Apple is to point out when, for example, apple's hardware is killing it. Their processor design is killing it and their software is kind of stumbling and limited and is not living up to the promise of the hardware. If I worked on hardware at Apple, I'd be mad at how poorly the OS team has executed, especially on the iPad, which is some amazing hardware.
One of the things I say in my review is I wish iPadOS loved the iPad as much as I did. Right, because I love the iPad, but iPadOS is just sluggishly sort of like very slowly kind of creeping along. So why?
1:02:47 - Leo Laporte
though, why? Why doesn't Apple fix this? They certainly have the resources. Is it a commercial decision? Or are they really hogtied because they don't have the people? What's going on?
1:03:00 - Jason Snell
I think some of it is structural. I think that they don't have necessarily as many people as we think and I think the problem that I guess is happening and I don't have a lot of insight into this, I'm just trying to gaze into the black box here, but my guess is iPadOS is essentially iOS. It's really hard to prioritize iPad features over iPhone features, because the iPhone is half the company's revenue and when you do iPad features, are you prioritizing that? Whatever tiny sliver of iPad use is the iPad Pro? Probably not.
And so professional level iPad features, now that the Mac is going to stick around and they don't need to build a life raft for all their pro customers they can take their feet off the gas and that's why, in desperation, I suggested a couple of months ago maybe they should just on this hardware that's capable of running it, maybe they should just virtualize Mac OS for the people who are complaining, and I don't want that to happen. I want the iPad to get better, but the point is, what I really want is a really nice piece of hardware that's a convertible touch tablet that can be a laptop in Apple's ecosystem. And right now I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place, because the Mac is not a touchscreen and the Mac is not a convertible. The iPad is, but it isn't capable.
1:04:06 - Leo Laporte
There's not much distinction, though, between an iPad running macOS and a MacBook Air running macOS. Indeed right, Except one of them costs about $1,000 more than the other, yeah, but that might be why they don't do it, that there's not a distinct skew.
1:04:21 - Jason Snell
I mean, I would be greatly disappointed if the reason Apple didn't make these strategic decisions with their platforms is largely because they just want everybody to buy everything, especially when you're talking about the high-end system with the giant margins maybe they should kill the pro and just make an air and a mini and uh, if you want pro, you should get a macbook.
1:04:42 - Leo Laporte
Maybe they should. Sounds like that's a more clean product line. All of this sturm und drang is because of the of the, because they've done too good a job they've done too good a job with the pro. Yeah, could you? Uh, is it glib of me to say, oh, you don't want to put mac os on an iPad pro, should you? Could I?
1:05:01 - Jason Snell
I mean this thing in front of me has an has. It has a 13 inch screen. It has an M4 and it has 16 gigs of ram and a terabyte of storage, so it absolutely can run Mac OS Plus. Don't forget they've got the hypervisor framework. It's built into their chips, it's built into their operating system. They could do it if they wanted to do it. I'm not saying it would be a win, it would be a loss, right?
1:05:21 - Leo Laporte
It would be a loss.
1:05:23 - Jason Snell
Because it would muddy the waters, mean that iPad os had no, you know, motivation to get better, which really needs.
1:05:29 - Leo Laporte
but, like if the only way for an apple convertible to exist is for it to be on this hardware, I'd take it, should they pull a steve jobs and get a building down an infinite loop and raise the pirate flag and take the whole iPad os team and put them there and say make it happen.
1:05:45 - Jason Snell
I don't think there's an iPad os team. I think it's just part of the ios that's the problem.
1:05:48 - Leo Laporte
That's the problem right there. If you don't have a team that wants to beat ios and mac os this is one of the knocks on apple's.
1:05:56 - Jason Snell
Usually, you know, lauded corporate structure is sometimes it's unclear, like who's the owner of the, who is the iPad champion, who's the vision pro?
1:06:04 - Leo Laporte
that's what steve did with mac and that was the knock on the vision pro.
1:06:07 - Jason Snell
Right was one of the things that people criticized about the vision pro is who is the one who's got the vision for where it's going, or is it just scattered with every other priority that they've got across this huge company?
1:06:18 - Leo Laporte
and I think such a big company. They could have a division that's the vision pro division. They could have a division that's the iPad division's right in the name it's in division, vision division, the vision division.
1:06:30 - Mikah Sargent
I like it what happened to that narrative that, um, tim cook was ignoring the mac for the iPad, that tim cook specifically loved the iPad? If it was that kind of just all bluster, or was there any truth to that? And if if so, did Tim have more of an effect on the hardware side of the iPad than the software side? Or was that again just kind of something people thought at the time?
1:06:57 - Jason Snell
I mean, I can't wait to hear the real story here, but the guess that I have is that Apple Silicon, the Apple chips, were so good that at some point they made a strategic decision to just take the Mac off of Intel and they felt it was worth it, because it I really felt in 2016 or 2017, like they were just going to keep the Mac on Intel and put it out on that ice flow on the iPhone and the iPad, and we're like you know what, let's just do it, let's just bring the Mac over, we'll spend the money, we'll spend the time, we'll recompile, we'll deal with all the complexities of a chip that was designed for phones, putting it in a Mac. And they did it and they executed. And so I think, if I'm Tim Cook, to answer your question, micah, I look at what Johnny.
Sc doing and it turns me around on the mac, and so they they invest in because because there are shared, like there is a lot shared at the subsystem level. This is a thing people don't talk about as much as they should. A few years ago they mentioned is one of their in one of their wwc sessions that they had put a lot of effort, I think, around catalina when they broke compatibility with a lot of stuff the the two os's had kind of drifted apart. Since they got forked in 2007 to make the iPhone, they brought them back together All that underlying stuff that allowed them to do Catalyst, that allowed them to do iOS apps.
1:08:13 - Leo Laporte
It went from 32-bit to 64-bit.
1:08:15 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and that allowed them to do all of that, and that means that now they build a feature for the iPhone and they can put it on the Mac, and once you do that, why not?
1:08:24 - Leo Laporte
keep the Mac around. Why not keep the Mac around?
1:08:25 - Jason Snell
Why not keep the Mac around. But then I think it leads to the question of like, oh well, what do we do with the iPad?
1:08:31 - Leo Laporte
And I'm not sure they've got an answer. I figure somebody in the executive suite maybe more than one is listening to this. What's your advice?
1:08:42 - Jason Snell
What do you say to them? Personally, I would say one make iPadOS good, make it functional and its own thing and not just a copy of the Mac. But I would also say at this point given the hardware, buy yourself some time, take the pressure off, don't be afraid of using your amazing hardware and that whole hypervisor system that you built to just let people with an iPad Pro with a keyboard and a trackpad attached to run a virtualized Mac if they need to, and that'll shut them up and it'll show off how amazing your hardware is and it's not really going to cost you sales. And if it means more people buy iPad Pros, the margins on those are great. But I would say before that number one please don't give up on iPadOS, because I think if you started adding some of these other features, a lot of people would stop, the narrative would stop. But you actually have to put in the investment. Make things run in the background, right. Let let soft, let final cut.
1:09:38 - Leo Laporte
export in the background, right, like, let's start there if I had to take a guess, I would say that that might have been the plan at one point I think it was and everything had to get put back in the back burner along with the Apple car because of AI.
And all of a sudden, the whole ship now has to point a different direction. They've got a good story hardware-wise for AI. They need to find a software story for AI and suddenly that is the priority. And so what might have been isn't going to happen now because they've got to focus on something different.
1:10:10 - Jason Snell
And I think that the lack of the iPad ever being a top priority is how we got here right. I think there's always going to be a higher priority than the iPad, because of the iPhone and because of whatever the hot topic is right now.
1:10:22 - Leo Laporte
Well, they need the next thing, and they know the iPad's not it, they know the iPhone is not it, they know the Mac is not it it. They're hoping that there'll be a next. The next thing yeah, that's where the attention has to be right now. Right, let's take a little break. Andy inako is in, uh, the beautiful library, with the azaleas and the and the things and walking on the trail. It's great to see you with the things on the trail there and trees, I think those are called. You're sounding like AI.
1:10:54 - Mikah Sargent
I think what I'm seeing is.
1:10:57 - Andy Ihnatko
Hey Leo, what's in this picture?
1:11:02 - Leo Laporte
What does? Can we read it? Can we read it?
1:11:04 - Mikah Sargent
We're zooming in Enhance AI, enhance Enhance. Zoom we don't have the budget, I think it says Apple Cider Donuts next stop.
1:11:14 - Leo Laporte
Thank you, andy and Akko also with us. See, andy and I are at a little bit of a disadvantage. You guys are looking at your beautiful new OLED display. I'm just gazing into it.
M4 enabled iPads. Micah Sargent has the 11-inch, jason Snell has the 13-inch. They're going to measure. You can't be with the iPad. You love, love the iPad. You're with After this word, and here I am, on a Linux desktop, what this episode of MacBreak Weekly brought to you by Wix Studio.
Now, they only gave me 60 seconds to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. So in a minute or less, here are a few things you can do from start to finish. On Studio One, adapt your designs for every device with responsive AI. Expand Wix Studio's pre-made solutions with back-end and front-end APIs. Generate code and troubleshoot bugs with a built-in AI code assistant. Four, switch up the styling of hundreds of web pages fonts, layouts, colors, everything in a click. Five add no-code animations and gradient backgrounds right there in the editor. Six, start a design library. Seven, package your code and UI and reusable full-stack apps. Oh, and one more big thing deliver everything your client needs in one smooth handover. All right, I'm out of time, but the list just keeps on going.
If you haven't visited Wix Studio lately, oh boy, you will be in for an eye fill. It looks so good. Step into Wix Studio and see for yourself. It looks so good. Step into Wix Studio and see for yourself. Go to Wix W-I-X dot com/studio or click the link on our show notes to find out more wix.com/studio. Tip of the hat to Wix doing a great job and thank you for sponsoring MacBreak Weekly. Oh, this is a. It's a fascinating conversation, but it's funny because it's the same conversation every single person who has an iPad is having with their friends, their family, themselves and I. I just don't understand with themselves, like, well, why isn't this better? Yeah, uh, I would love to use this full time. I don't know what would have to be. That. That was, I guess John Gruber's point is well, what would you do to the software?
1:13:31 - Jason Snell
But Federico answered I mean yeah, background tasks. Text edit yeah, a menu bar.
1:13:38 - Leo Laporte
Calculator no.
1:13:39 - Jason Snell
I mean a menu bar in Stage Manager would not be bad.
1:13:42 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I would love a menu bar Because it's very hard to do.
1:13:44 - Jason Snell
Discovery inside apps Was stage manager their attempt to do some of this I mean stage manager is multi-window, it needs work, but in the second iteration it's usable. I I have been using it for the last six days and it's uh, it's fine it's. It's got some nice features and it's. You know, it's a little bit weird at times, but um but like who isn't.
But here's the thing is. Part of my attitude towards stage manager is they did it and then they fixed some stuff in year two and what is my faith? That they're gonna iterate it in year three and four and five and six? Yeah, and I don't believe it. I think if I had to bet, I'd guess that in three or four years, stage manager will be unchanged from what it is today, because they will have moved on to some other feature and they will have shipped something that was not really good enough but not not bad enough to update it, but they did bring it to the mac so I never use it on the mac.
1:14:37 - Andy Ihnatko
To be clear, go ahead, sorry and, but I'm maybe being a little bit optimistic here. But what if the reason they're the reason why that they're not really making a lot of move on stage managers? Because they they know that in two years from now they're going to have a multi-touch Mac interface and so a lot of that stuff is going to be moot, hopefully. Is that what?
1:14:58 - Leo Laporte
you're rooting for.
1:15:01 - Andy Ihnatko
No, I'm saying that it's.
I think it's very, very odd that they really really made a good start off the blocks there with Stage Manager and it really filled me with a little bit of optimism that, yeah, they are really finally deciding that okay.
Well, look, if we are charging $1,500 for an iPad Pro and with this really really optimal trackpad and keyboard that is as good as most laptops you'll get out there, we need to make sure that the UI is up to the game, that multitasking isn't as cumbersome to use as it always has been.
The first version was some good ideas. The second iteration really built on that and I was kind of hoping that year after year after year, we'd see it getting closer and closer and closer to something that's optimal as opposed to something that's optional, which is what it is right now. So I keep wondering we love reading the tea leaves at Apple. Sometimes it really is that there's just nobody amongst the 10 to 12 people who really run the company, there's nobody who, it's possible, there's just nobody in that group that feels so strongly about the iPad that they're willing to start pushing things through and make that a real priority, and there aren't enough people at Apple to basically do that kind of stuff independently, so my problem is the convertible form factor is really appealing in a lot of ways.
1:16:15 - Leo Laporte
Like, do you detach it?
1:16:16 - Jason Snell
frequently.
1:16:17 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, I mean, I only put it in the case when I'm using it as a laptop the rest of the time you're holding it.
1:16:22 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I'm holding it just as it is.
We're in a little folio case and so, okay, touchscreen Mac is great, but it's still a laptop and I don't think there are any rumors saying that Apple is going to make a convertible Mac, which I would be like if you could make a convertible Mac that had a touch mode that was iPad-like in some ways.
That would be approaching the same issue from the opposite direction, but it might get us there. I just don't have a lot of faith in that. I think that, as several of you have said here, that Apple has got this very weird problem where they've got laptops over here and tablets over there and then in the middle they kind of got nothing or they've got something, but it's kind of weird. And the problem I have is that, having used the iPad Pro since 2015 a lot, I really like the fact that I can have it be a laptop and then pop the thing off and it's a tablet. That's powerful and it's not for everybody, but I love it and Apple this is it right now. So I mean, yeah, I'd be interested in a convertible MacBook Pro.
1:17:21 - Mikah Sargent
That would be another way to go. Is it an artificial? Stop that because they don't want to confuse things and they want the Mac to exist on its own. That's why we haven't seen the introduction of the touchscreen Mac, because then people will be going well, then what's the point of the iPad? And then vice versa If the iPad was able to run Mac OS well, then why do we need this Mac book laptop? Do we think it's more artificial that the those constraints are in place, or is it genuinely because it seems like many of us are continue to ask for that? But is it just also that we're just the loudest people in the room.
1:18:00 - Jason Snell
Dogma and history, right, I think some of it is that that, like I've said, I think that their view of what, of where the iPad and the Mac were going, has changed over time. And I think some of it is dogma. It is weird. A friend of mine, actually Dan Morin Dan Morin, our dungeon buddy his wife is buying a new laptop and he's helping her shop for it and he had this Mac very Mac user moment where he realized every other laptop in the world has a touchscreen and that you don't even think about it.
And it's weird, right, like the world has a touch screen and that you don't even think about it. And it's weird, right, like it's weird that because, having used this like I've got, even with the keyboard, I'll go, I'll, I'll scroll and stuff, and it's like it's it's just an extra thing. And then Apple has just said dogmatically like no, never, never, never, never. And I think that some of it is that and I think some of it is. Well, we already have a touch thing. It's over there, it's a separate product, but it has served them well in some cases, but I think it's serving them poorly in this case.
1:18:53 - Mikah Sargent
And let me ask you this, because I've done this before I've SSH'd into my Mac from my iPad using an app Is there a way that you've used specifically to, from your iPad, view the screen of your Mac Totally, and what do you use to do that to, from your iPad, view the screen of your Mac and go around, and what do you use to do that?
1:19:10 - Jason Snell
I wish they had screen sharing. That's what I want In iPadOS like they do in macOS.
1:19:14 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, bring screen share to iPadOS.
1:19:16 - Jason Snell
I use the Edovia app, screens, which is really good and also runs on the Mac, and you run a little Mac app called Screens Connect on your Mac and it will break through. It'll connect even if you've got a, you know a router and all of that. It'll let you connect. And the new version that's a it's a subscription app so you got to pay for that, but it is even higher quality in terms of the screen. And so I was saying before the show, I, uh, I posted a podcast the other day just on my iPad and I ended up with a wave file that I needed to get into an mp3 and I realized the easiest it was already in iCloud drive. The easiest thing for me to do was use screens to connect back to my mac at home so why isn't that good enough?
1:19:53 - Leo Laporte
isn't that virtualization it's?
1:19:54 - Jason Snell
it's well, I mean it's, it's you gotta own it. You've gotta own a mac and have it on the internet all the time, uh, but but sure it's not a bad fallback. There's latency if you're outside the the house, it's not.
1:20:06 - Andy Ihnatko
It's not latency, but like. Part of it for me is that I want to be able to connect external hardware. I want IO Right.
1:20:13 - Jason Snell
I can't connect my microphone to it.
1:20:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, maybe some of it is that we are old-fashioned fuddy-duddies. I was accusing Paul Thorat of that because he said you can't call it a pro if it doesn't have access to files and file system. So maybe that's an old fashioned way of thinking of computing.
1:20:29 - Jason Snell
The way I put it in my review is, I feel, like pros. What is a pro? I mean and if John Gruber is right, pro just means nice and Lexus, okay, fine, whatever. But what I think a pro is is not specifically something like file access. I think what pro is is there is no one pro workflow. Every pro is in a niche and so in order to make pro products, you need to have the flexibility to fill a lot of little professional niches across the board.
The challenge with the iPad is that if Apple doesn't prefigure your particular use case, you can't do it, whereas on the Mac you can figure it out. So when Federico writes about background tasks, that's a great example of like oh, then you've got a utility that can run in the background, that can do a thing. That's good for pros, right, and it's really broad. Like oh, background is not a feature, it's an enabler for a lot of different features and little accessory hardware and stuff like that.
It's things like that, that it's the inflexibility of parts of the iPad that I think make it not as strong a pro product. So that's how I would define it is. It's more just. Like you know, if we talk to pros, we've all known professional, you know creative professionals and engineers and all sorts of things like that. Everybody's job is like a little bit weird and a little bit different and the reason that a computer is good for that is that you can make it do that thing even if Microsoft or Apple never ever considered that use case, because it's an open platform. Problem with the iPad is, if Apple didn't pre-consider your particular use case, you can't do it. You just can't do it.
1:22:04 - Leo Laporte
And there's a lot of people in that boat, sure, there's only it's really really, I'd say a small number of pros who can use it.
1:22:11 - Jason Snell
I mean, if you can use it because the app that you use to do your job there on the iPad is fully featured, like procreate yeah or affinity designer or like, but then great yeah but that's, it yeah, I also think at this point apple is probably thinking we need to skate to where the puck is going.
1:22:31 - Leo Laporte
This is all old stuff. We've got new fish to fry, you don't think so?
1:22:39 - Andy Ihnatko
No, it's just that I don't think that people are wrong to fault the iPad for the things that we've been talking about. Oh, no, I agree, Because when you look at every but just for conversation, like the fact that 80% of the people out there, 80% of the market, that it's not the Mac I think that's the latest number or whatever that part of the industry has decided that, yeah, people are buying touchscreen devices, People are buying convertibles, People are buying laptops that have 360 degree hinges on them. That, in and of themselves, are just really wonderful and great. I still, the reason why I keep my Pixelbook around is because I just love that form factor of it's a key. It's a traditional keyboard trackpad screen device separated by hinge, but when I need it to be just sort of like a little easel that I'm in a conference or I'm in a meeting with, I just want to consult notes or I just want to be able to add little notes to it, but it's out of the way it turns into that it's more durable for more uses than I can think of. The fact that that's not just a niche but that's based almost exactly what the market is outside of Apple means that this is normal and it's Apple's the people that are being different in terms of what the pro should be.
I just think that, like everybody, it's easy to say that 80% of the people out there I'm here talking about 80% of Apple users, 80% of Windows users, Linux users, whatever Most devices can serve the needs of 80% of the people, but that doesn't mean that the other 20% are some faraway niche. It's that everybody has. Every individual, every one person who buys a computer has that 20% of features. That is not being addressed by a certain thing, so it's a different thing for all kinds of other people.
So if the design aesthetic of a certain operating system or piece of hardware is that with this is we decide that we care up to this point, but no further than this point, that's Bush league. That's not. That's not how you be, how you become a great creator or great designer or a great company. You you have to swing at every pitch that's thrown at you as, as opposed to saying I'm only going to going to swing pitches that are right here on this part of the plate, Anything else. I'm either going to take the walk or I'm going to take the strikeout. Sometimes that's the feeling that I get from Apple that they don't want to swing at every pitch, and sometimes it's a wonderful thing because it means that they don't make a lot of bonehead products that a lot of other companies get swept up into.
1:25:12 - Leo Laporte
But that also means that they're not interested in solving problems that they're not interested in, which means that they are not great at solving all the problems that they are supposed to be solving. I have to point out, though, one of the reasons there's such diversity in the world of PCs is because there are thousands of companies, and it is 80 percent of the market, and there is competition, and it's almost a Darwinian process that apple just doesn't have access to and yes, they have, it's true. Now you should probably start to look at what the darwinian process has resulted in, which is touch screen and a variety of things, but apple didn't have the benefit of that. They have one company, one product line. It's like saying well, why didn't lenovo figure out that you wanted to be able to detach it? Uh, they didn't, because they're one company, but Microsoft did and created a convertible, and then Lenovo could create a convertible. So you're in a different kind of space when you're making PCs, and there are a lot of PCs that don't have touchscreens, by the way, and there are a lot of people who buy PCs without touchscreens intentionally.
So I don't know if you can compare Apple to the rest of the market. It's a it's in a very different position. My point, though, is, I think, apple at this point. And look, I'm going to point to the New York Times article by Trip Mikkel, brian X Chen and Cade Metz that says a year ago, apple's top executives decided that Siri needed a brain transplant. Now I know, if Alex Lindsay were here, he would defend Siri.
1:26:33 - Jason Snell
Of course he would.
1:26:34 - Leo Laporte
So just in your mind, imagine Alex going. What's wrong?
1:26:37 - Jason Snell
with Siri. It always works in my house.
1:26:39 - Leo Laporte
The decision they wrote came after the executives, craig Federighi and John Giandrea, spent weeks testing, weeks, weeks testing open. Didn't take me weeks, but anyway open AI's new chatbot, chat GPT. This is a year ago. Uh, the product's use of generative artificial intelligence made Siri look antiquated duh. Took them weeks to figure that out, said two people familiar with the company's work who didn't have permission to speak publicly. So at that point, according to the times and I think trip mickle and kade metz and brian x jenner pretty well connected maybe they're not the three of them as good as one mark german, but I think they have sources and I think they said at that point apple said we've got to catch up in ai apple has made. They wrote a generative AI, a tentpole project. In fact, they use as evidence the cancellation of the Apple car, apple saying you know what? We can't spend any more money on this, we've got to. And they took all those people and $10 billion that they'd spent on the Apple car and reassigned it to AI.
1:27:45 - Jason Snell
The line that I thought was really good is the fear of it becoming a dumb brick, the idea that if AI powers everything, then the iPhone is no longer able to differentiate itself. And those are the crown jewels. So they got to jump on it.
1:28:01 - Andy Ihnatko
Right, yeah, that's almost a direct quote from the discovery documents, from internal Apple communications, about how Apple does a lot of their thinking the challenge of Android, the challenge of multi-platform connectivity on a lot of their services that as soon as Apple just becomes a connection to a cloud service, as software is being run off, another device, we're just another phone and we don't want that to happen.
1:28:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so that's. What I'm saying is that Apple maybe sees all sorts of things they'd like to do with the iPad, but suddenly alarm bells are ringing and they're trying to save their core product and their core technology absolutely, and I think uh, I'm skeptical of the report that they suddenly realized siri was bad a year ago.
1:28:42 - Jason Snell
That seems a little odd, but I do think maybe they don't listen to this show.
1:28:45 - Mikah Sargent
I do think that there.
1:28:46 - Jason Snell
Maybe had been some corporate like storytelling going on about oh no, no, no, we're working on Siri, we're working on it. It's going to get better they did not invent Siri in-house. They bought a company. Yeah.
1:28:56 - Leo Laporte
And they didn't really improve it. In fact, to some eyes they actually unimproved it.
1:29:01 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and they were first out, but then it's kind of fallen on hard times. I think they knew that. I think what happened is there was some corporate fiction going on about what was going to happen with Siri and then the chatbots put the lie to the corporate fiction. They said no, no, no, you failed and what you're doing is not working and you need to start again. And you know what it can be really hard when your company makes lots and lots and lots of money to make hard decisions like that, and but then you get that clarifying moment and they're very fortunate if that chat bot chat bot moment happened with enough time for them to course correct Right, because the other way this could have gone is they could have laughed it off until it was too late and maybe it's not too late for them to get in the game and to make the iPhone continue to be relevant. But like it was a moment of existential dread for them and to their credit at least, they were like oh yeah, snap out of it, we got to fix this.
1:29:54 - Leo Laporte
The article confirms what DigiTimes had said, that they are exploring creating servers powered by the Apple Silicon chips, the idea being they would then save money and create consistency between the tools used for processes in the cloud and on its devices. They also said this article in the new york times says rather than compete directly with chat gpt by releasing a chat bot that does things like write poetry which, by the way, nobody really wants three people familiar with its work.
It's good for a demo. Apple has said apple's focused on making siri better at handling the things it already does setting timers. It's pretty good at setting timers creating calendar appointments and adding items to a grocery list. Ah, it would also be able to summarize text messages.
1:30:39 - Jason Snell
That's something it does not do sure and keep context right. That's one of the important things that the chatbots do that siri can never do concurrent with this article.
1:30:47 - Leo Laporte
we heard that they were very close to making a deal with OpenAI to license. What I would guess is this thing that OpenAI announced on Monday this chat GPT-4-0 Omni, which is really a chatbot, and that is exactly what they're looking for, I think, without the poetry angle. And then there are also consistent rumors that they're talking to Google, and so one of the questions we've been asking and I don't know if we're getting any closer to an answer, maybe we'll find out June 10th is Apple just going to take these existing chatbots and add them to Siri, or are they going to make them? I mean, that's what I was using. I was using the action button to talk to Omni. You know GPTV for Omni.
1:31:27 - Mikah Sargent
I really wonder how much of those choices, because when we have heard about these rumors, apple is mostly focused on this on-device stuff, including being able to summarize text messages, which can happen on device, some things with photos, et cetera, et cetera, and making Siri better again with the context. All of that avoids any of the quote unquote hallucination problem.
Right, if you partner with a third party company and you let it do the part where hallucination might happen you're not necessarily responsible if those things go wrong, and I really think that Apple wants to avoid any aspect of the hallucination on top of the fact that then it gets to continue to talk about how privacy is at the core. Privacy is a human right. You know all of the kind of implications of when we're not doing it on devices in any way.
1:32:22 - Leo Laporte
At the same time, I really think Apple has very quickly, by the end of this year, has to have a device probably the iPhone, maybe the Vision Pro, maybe AirPods that you can talk to, that you can have it do things, that you can implement shortcuts. It needs that and it needs it now.
1:32:40 - Jason Snell
I feel like it's the two-tiered approach. Right where they've got the on-device intelligence, you can do both and they've got I mean, mike is right the search engine approach where, oh, you can use a third party AI tool, and it puts it at arm's length and it lets Apple being like I don't know, I mean, google's going to do whatever it's going to do and that's not us. But that can't be the only solution, right?
1:33:00 - Leo Laporte
And also, that everybody will see as an excuse and everybody will still blame Apple. It's not going to get them off the hook.
1:33:07 - Jason Snell
But I think that that is what their strategy probably is is that they're going to have an on-device model. They're going to have a bunch of things that are running on their own cloud services that are doing certain things, and they're also going to have maybe multiple, maybe chat, gpt and Gemini.
1:33:21 - Mikah Sargent
I'm wondering too if it's going to be multiple.
1:33:23 - Leo Laporte
But Apple will have to be able to say if you use Siri, unlike Google and OpenAI, it stays on devices, stays in our data centers, it's private.
1:33:33 - Jason Snell
Right.
1:33:33 - Leo Laporte
And they're going to have to say but we can't guarantee that with Google or OpenAI.
1:33:38 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I don't know how that distinction is going to take place. To be honest, yeah.
1:33:42 - Andy Ihnatko
Also, whatever deal Apple makes, it has to make sense for OpenAI, it has to make sense for Gemini.
1:33:48 - Leo Laporte
Well, google's already paying $20 billion to Apple, we know at least Right, just for the search. So there's money in it for Apple, I guess.
1:33:55 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, that's why I'm saying that it might.
They might be agreeing to terms that in court testimony, in court discovery, in three years from now, we might not necessarily approve of, because part of it is that, if you're going to be, this costs money to run, it costs energy to run, you have to build more data centers.
Once you have every single iPhone in the United States of America running this model as long as if it's not 100% being done on device that's going to run into a lot of money and there has to be some revenue generated by it, and Apple's going to want a piece of that Also going to want a piece of that Also. Openai and Google. They're going to want to be able to train their models on all this experience. They're going to want to have access to data, and is Apple going to be able to offer them a deal that gives them what they need not just what they want, but what they need while also allowing them to keep that halo that they put on their heads about? Hey, we're the only companies that care about you, the person. We're the only company that cares about privacy and security, so they can't bend that halo any more than they already have there's also a structural issue.
1:34:52 - Leo Laporte
In fact, in this article they quote john berkey, who was in the siri team for two years and then left apple. Berkey said the structural problem at apple is the real blind spot. The company's divisions operate independently of one another, they're siloed and they don't share information. He said AI needs to be threaded and I'd agree through products, all of them kind of as a common thread, to succeed. And he says that's not an Apple's DNA, so that may be a structural problem for them.
1:35:25 - Jason Snell
It could be, but how much of a shock to the system was this a year ago, right, right, I mean, because this is somebody who's left Apple. It's possible that they said, okay, everybody has to. You know, this is now a corporate priority and everybody has to get behind this. And how are you working with this? But yeah, I think I do wonder if they've got some sort of differential privacy kind of thing going on where they're going to be able to use their on-device model to make queries off-device models. There you go with particular details, but not, but it won't.
1:35:53 - Leo Laporte
It'll be anonymous information.
1:35:54 - Jason Snell
It's anonymizing, yeah and and it'll turn it over because, also, every query can can give a certain amount of background so it can say like here's what we've been talking about and now here's the new query. If they did that right I mean Apple has done this before where they've taken something that we've all said, oh, that's going to be hard to anonymize. And they're like oh, we, we went in the lab and the boffins came up with a term.
1:36:17 - Leo Laporte
They might be able to do it, mr Blue. You may remember Mr Blue asked a question five minutes ago. Mr Blue has another question. You don't know who mr blue is. I know and I will make sure they get the answer so apple?
1:36:28 - Jason Snell
might that might be. Some of their secret sauce is is holding, uh, whether it's gemini or gpt at arm's length. A little bit and remember those things. The brilliant thing about those chatbots, for all the stupid things they do, is you can tell them how you want them to respond. So I can see a pre-formatted thing where it's like this is apple coming from an iphone? We have a question. Here's the background. This is mr blue. No sex, and yeah, that's right.
Here's all the things you do not say and then send it back to us as a json file, please and you know we'll take it from there.
1:36:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Exactly what they'll do. I think that's exactly what they'll do?
1:37:02 - Jason Snell
I mean they'll, they'll try. I mean it's all going to be in the execution, right, but that that and I know I've said this on this show before, but like I feel like that is the goal here is like Apple's in a position where, if they can make this a product people want to use and find valuable, which they're usually good at, they can win this thing. I think the challenge with AI right now is that AI everybody looks at it as incredibly powerful, but a lot of the examples of how it's being demoed are ridiculous.
1:37:31 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's a real. It's an interesting question. I agree with you. We were talking during the Google event yesterday and the OpenAI event the day before. Jeff was Jeff Jarvis was on, and one of the things I pointed out is that these companies seem to get in trouble with the least important part of what they do. They get in trouble with their images, they get in trouble with their prose, the hallucinations in their prose, but those are all demos. Those aren't really the most important thing that an AI is going to do At IO.
1:37:57 - Jason Snell
At one point they were talking about everything is about the prompt and here's a booklet we printed about how to do things to the prompt.
1:38:02 - Leo Laporte
That's exactly what you don't want, and I thought nobody wants a blinking empty prompt.
1:38:06 - Jason Snell
They want to do something or be suggested based on context. Right, and that is. I know the chatbots are really good at the blinking prompt, but to productize this you need to make it about something like I think you want to do this Apple might be very good at that.
1:38:21 - Leo Laporte
Right Compared to Google. If I were Apple, I'd be leaning into that.
1:38:33 - Mikah Sargent
Because, if you could make it practical to leverage AI to do things you want to do. In the end, that's what people want, because there are already those serious suggestions that we and some of them are silly. But, for example, it saw in my calendar that my sister's birthday is today Happy birthday. And it said do you want to send a message to your sister to wish happy birthday? That already happens. There are times where it knows that my location is different from the event that I have planned in my calendar, and so it says do you want to send the other people who were invited to this a message saying you're running behind, um, when they have a lot of pieces yeah, those are already there and with the new journal app, which is constantly paying attention to the different things that you do and suggest, they have everything but the intelligence, exactly.
1:39:11 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so maybe they get the intelligence from somewhere else.
1:39:15 - Jason Snell
I mean, the other thing they've got an advantage of is they do have their ecosystem, so they do have their fingers in all of this data that they keep private but that they know about and that their software could work, could act on. They know when you're moving but you gotta execute it right.
1:39:27 - Mikah Sargent
I mean, you gotta you gotta be able to execute it when carplay connects, when you're charging your phone, they know which device you're on, they know what devices are nearby.
1:39:35 - Leo Laporte
So that's the pitch is we do know a lot about you. We would like to use it all. We would like you to give us this information, but we promise it's going to stay on your phone in our data centers. It's not going to google Google, it's not going to Meta, it's not going to OpenAI. But you have to trust us because for this to work, you have to allow that. Google's tried this before. Remember they had the cards on Android and they had to phase them out because people didn't want. It crossed the creepy line. They didn't want. It was too weird that Google already knew all this stuff.
1:40:06 - Mikah Sargent
And then it was like why?
1:40:08 - Leo Laporte
why do you say I'm on it? How do you know I'm at the airport? Get out of my mind. And that really crossed the creepy line. Google actually killed that product. So I think that it has to be done, right, but if anybody could do it.
1:40:20 - Jason Snell
And to Micah's point, some of it is doing, some of it is happening now, like I was at the airport the other day and I brought up the app's search command to open Flighty, my flight tracking app, and it was the top hit Because it's like you use this app when you're at the airport. I know, right, it put the ticket in my wallet at the top. Yeah, so there's some of that there, but like this is the. This is like Apple has to navigate.
They have to be explicit about it, Like this is the, this is the it's like Apple has to navigate being perceived as being behind an AI by the world and making a product that people actually want to use Right, which is not necessarily the same thing.
1:40:56 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you're listening to Mac break weekly, a special Wednesday edition, because we got the new iPad pros here in 11 inch, a 13 inch, and then two guys with nothing at all Andy and Leo Laporte, micah Sargent's, here from iOS. Today, Of course, we'll have lots. So what happened to Rosemary? She couldn't. She got the accessories but not the iPad.
1:41:18 - Mikah Sargent
I think that orders weren't the same for London or something I don't know.
1:41:22 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, by next Tuesday we shall have one. Yeah, she should have one. So definitely watch iOS today for your iPad coverage and, of course, sixcolorscom is a must. Jason Snell is. It's only a matter of time before we see his name up on the stage at Infinite Loop, or whatever they call it, apple Park.
1:41:43 - Jason Snell
Hasn't happened yet.
1:41:44 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, says Jason Snell, marques Brownlee's getting all the attention. I hate it. He actually had a's getting all the attention. I hate it. He actually had a good video with the magnets Did you see the magnet video? I didn't see that one.
1:41:54 - Jason Snell
I don't know how do they?
1:41:55 - Leo Laporte
work. How do they work? He knows, somehow. He knows he had some sort of material that shows magnets and he was running over this. Here I'll find you the video we can watch. We can all watch together. Apple ups its magnet game. Um, magnets, how do they work? Well, marquez brownlee knows. Here's his twitter. This is this is cool. So he's got. He's got this special. See that green whoa, that green film. It shows where it must have some sort of magic magnet magnet and it shows you where.
Look at the magnets. I mean it's completely useless. He says look, these magnets are slot shaped and on the new iPad they're round. The speakers are different it's like etch-a-sketch film. How do the speakers sound? Do they sound okay?
1:42:45 - Jason Snell
yeah, I mean, the old speakers sound fine too.
1:42:47 - Leo Laporte
I don't think they're no, the old speakers are great.
1:42:49 - Mikah Sargent
I don't want them to be any worse, okay, well, they should they have a different shape around here yeah, look at that wow, I want this paper shaped. I know I want this thing, whatever.
1:42:59 - Leo Laporte
Oh, oh, yep, give me that edge sketch anyway.
1:43:04 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, because it has two options, for it's got more magnets and even the thing has magnets.
1:43:10 - Leo Laporte
There's magnets everywhere, everywhere, all the way down. Yeah, just don't touch it. To your pacemaker. You're watching MacBreak Weekly. More to come in, just a little bit. Well, what other um, um, I mean, is it all iPad all the way down? Well, the alarms? Oh the alarms. Apple admits yeah, there's a problem with the alarms. What about it? It's aware of issues as users complain alarms are playing too quietly or not going off. They're working on it. They say we saw it on TikTok. We saw it and we don't know why. Apple declined to comment on whether the they said. Apparently one tiktok user said that the iphone 15 alarm goes off at the lowest volume and says it's related to the attention aware feature being enabled, like if you're not paying attention yeah, I saw that, but then some people said, no, it's not that I.
1:44:05 - Mikah Sargent
I think it is just a bug of some sort and it's probably fixed now that we've got the new update.
1:44:11 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, 17.5 is out. Anything exciting to say about it? Cross-platform tracking detection EU app downloads.
1:44:21 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, if we were in the EU, I'd have something exciting to say yeah.
1:44:27 - Leo Laporte
Cross-platform tracking detection delivers notifications to users if a compatible Bluetooth tracker they do not own is moving with them. That's new.
1:44:34 - Mikah Sargent
It's Google finally working.
1:44:36 - Jason Snell
Oh, this is the thing, that they did with Google Universal tracker.
1:44:39 - Leo Laporte
Oh, very nice. Okay, yeah, that was announced some months ago and they said we're going to put it off until the summer and I guess it's out now and I imagine there's security updates, but they're not. They always kind of keep those under their hats.
1:44:57 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, not anything huge with 17.5, unfortunately.
1:45:00 - Leo Laporte
And that's what you just got. So the iPad did not come with the latest.
1:45:04 - Mikah Sargent
It did not. They said hey, update. I hate that when that happens.
1:45:08 - Leo Laporte
But it took a few seconds. Yeah, um, apple, uh, so june 10th you're gonna go or you get an invite to go down to the uh, the circle yeah, I hope so the whatever? Yeah, they haven't they haven't shipped yet. I don't want to call it the spaceship. That works too. So no invites to that event, but June 10th we'll cover the keynote. You and I will sit here all alone.
1:45:32 - Mikah Sargent
With no one there beside us.
1:45:34 - Leo Laporte
Jason must be having a good time. What else? Okay, vmware Fusion is now free for personal use, is it? But here's how not to get it. Don't get it. Paul Thorat and Richard Campbell were talking about this on Windows Weekly. You have to create a Broadcom account and they email you and there's all sorts of stuff for the free version. I guess, look, you want a free version that lets you run Windows on ARM, on your Apple Silicon Mac. I use Parallels, but I pay a lot for that. Now you can do it with VMware Fusion, which Broadcom has made free for anyone who wants to download for personal use.
1:46:16 - Mikah Sargent
After you hand over your firstborn child. But first tell us a little more about yourself. Just a little, a little more about yourself. Wait, can't I? I'll just give it a, you could fake it.
1:46:27 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, one of those. You know what? Give it the Apple address, right.
1:46:31 - Mikah Sargent
Well then, they don't know anything, Although who knows how much?
1:46:38 - Leo Laporte
telemetry stuff they're doing in the background. As if it weren't awful enough that Apple crushed the living life out of all creativity to make an iPad, the hydraulic press channels decided to do it all over again. So, first of all, tempest in a teapot, or should Apple have taken some heat for this ad?
1:46:56 - Andy Ihnatko
We were watching it. It's unusual it's just unusual for Apple to make even a small misstep like this. I have to admit that it went in and out my radar without even thinking about it when I saw it. I have to admit that it went in and out my radar without even thinking about it when I saw it. But yeah, in an era in which a lot of people, a lot of artists, are very, very, very, very concerned about what's going to happen to their art, the idea of crushing a big pile of what seemed to be very, very functional and useful items Maybe that would not have passed like another review process in the decision.
1:47:26 - Mikah Sargent
I got.
1:47:26 - Leo Laporte
I guess we watched it and we were a little bit weird.
1:47:30 - Mikah Sargent
but it wasn't you would. If you heard me, I immediately understood where it was going.
I quite literally said right, as soon as it came down I said, oh, they're crushing it into an iPad, it's going to become an iPad. It just made sense to me from the get-go. And I think if you, if you in the same way that when we look through tikt and Instagram, you kind of you're basically kind of glancing at things If you only saw that close up of an instrument being destroyed or some paint being squished or something like that and you didn't quite get a chance to watch the full ad, you might quickly go what the heck are they doing? And I could understand how that quickly led to some outrage. And then also the cultural implications. I saw an interesting kind of rundown that apparently, particularly in Japanese culture, the instruments or the tools of the artists are as revered in many ways as the artists themselves, of the artists are as revered in many ways as the artists themselves, and so there were some cultural implications at work there.
But overall I yeah, I just I don't know maybe and this this may sound like elitist or something, but I genuinely wonder, did people not get it? And then they, they went to rage before they had a chance to go. I see what's happening. At the same time, I do want to say I understand the criticism and what you said, andy, of yeah, it does kind of look bad that in this world of waste and et cetera, et cetera, they are crushing things and breaking things and that's not great. But I guess yeah, I just I figured out what they were doing quite quickly oh, yeah, it's going to be everything you can do with an iPad.
1:49:10 - Leo Laporte
Apple apologized.
1:49:11 - Jason Snell
That's good damage control, I do agree. I mean, I think it is a tempest in a teapot and I think the Internet needs things to be outraged by, and so they picked this. That said, I think it also shows that Apple failed to read the room, because Apple fancies itself friend to all creative people, yeah, and does not understand that apple is now viewed as a big tech company in an era where big tech companies are threatening with ai to destroy the lives and livelihood of creative people. And I think apple just can't think of itself that way and didn't was like no, no, no, it's light-hearted, it's apple. We got a bond, you're gonna get it right, you're gonna love it. And um, and they I think they just misread the room.
I think that it was exactly the wrong time for an ad like that, even though I thought the ad was. I mean, I also got a pang. I played the piano. Uh, when that piano got crushed, I was like no, no, no, not the piano. Like so you really did. I mean, I had a moment, but like I also got what they were trying to do and it's all metaphorical. They're not trying to crush your dreams, they're trying to put all of it in this one little tiny, compact thing where you can do all your creative endeavors. But, yeah, failure to read the room and I think when we talk about apple being regulated a lot on this show, I think this this is an actual blind spot, where Apple really does not think of itself as a tech giant that is standing astride the world and destroying the livelihoods of people by its various policy decisions. It thinks of itself as an upstart who loves everybody, who loves the creative professional and is an enabler of goodness in the world.
And the problem is you step in it like this because your self-image is not what other people's image of you is yeah, so maybe this is a wake-up call given that they are going to have a big ai presentation in june at wwdc, it might have been the perfect time for something to something minor to go wrong like this shake them up to put them all on alert, knowing how to prepare, how everybody's on edge about this stuff and that they need to phrase this, because I had this with a google io keynote.
They started off with the with a youtube tiktok dj guy and he with a YouTube TikTok DJ guy and he was, he was tweaking, you know Google but but. But at one point he basically was like no one wrote this, google wrote this and it was off script a little bit. But at the same time I thought, like this is, this is what you got to be careful of. You got to be careful of saying hey, good news, customers, we're, we're going to let you do all the things you currently pay a creative person to do.
1:51:51 - Mikah Sargent
That's not great. No, you're right.
1:51:54 - Leo Laporte
Somebody did, and I thought this was really a great thing. They said they should have run it in reverse Start with a thin iPad and then open up to reveal all of the stuff that's in there. Yeah, that would have been better.
1:52:07 - Mikah Sargent
Yep, clever, maybe yeah, stuff that's in there. Yeah, that would have been better. Yep, clever maybe, yeah, but I'm trying to find it but I can't. It would have, at the very least, stopped the insta you know judgment right.
1:52:17 - Leo Laporte
By the way, lg did it first. Did lg do it better?
1:52:22 - Mikah Sargent
they did it at a time in 2008 it wasn't as tumultuous. Things were simpler back then. I like seeing things get crushed. That's kind of interesting.
1:52:32 - Jason Snell
David Letterman did this in the 90s, right, andy? You know crushing things in the hydraulic press, throwing things off a building, like Destruction. It just looks cool.
1:52:42 - Leo Laporte
It's fun, destruction's fun.
1:52:45 - Mikah Sargent
And then what's that song?
1:52:47 - Leo Laporte
Here is from Rodney O. The new Apple ad would work much better if it were reversed. So it starts with an iPad and it starts Everything's back to normal.
1:53:01 - Andy Ihnatko
I think a lot of people focused on the idea that the last thing is that innocent, happy little emoji, having been crushed, his eyeballs popping out. Maybe that is a little particularly could have been reconsidered.
1:53:11 - Leo Laporte
I think they should have had a little, a little warning you know that was my favorite trigger warning.
1:53:18 - Jason Snell
It's. My favorite thing in the entire was the things popping out.
1:53:20 - Andy Ihnatko
It is a. It is evocative of that scene with joe pesci in, uh, in casino where he's trying to get that, get that person to like talk and find out who like ordered the hit at.
1:53:32 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, that's not, you don't want to we made it very rarely take the lighten up approach to things, cause I'm usually I try to be very open-minded and I get it. I get it and yeah, they should I. I thought this was. I thought the emoji being squished was funny we can, by the way.
1:53:50 - Leo Laporte
And this, this comes from, uh, the harry mccracken interview. He did a great good score, by the way, harry, and a fast company. He interviewed jaws and john turnus, the next ceo of apple, according to mark german. Uh, on the why the iPad and mac both matter, and you know what big point the, the iPad, is the only tablet that doesn't suck. I mean, that's a good point isn't it?
1:54:17 - Mikah Sargent
Well, yeah, that's okay, actually, I did want to ask because I saw that Google re-released its tablet All.
1:54:27 - Leo Laporte
Android tablets suck.
1:54:28 - Mikah Sargent
And I know that, the Amazon tablets, even the ones for kids are awful. Maybe a Surface, me more, andy. Maybe a.
1:54:38 - Leo Laporte
Surface. Is that, andy? Is that what you're thinking? I mean I.
1:54:41 - Andy Ihnatko
No, I mean okay. First of all, the Amazon tablets are great because you can give it to a little kid in the back of a car and not care what happens to it because they're durable, All right fine, and I think it depends on how you define a tablet.
as a convertible, I would say no, there are a lot of convertibles that don't suck at all. The Microsoft Surface doesn't suck. There are a lot of Dell that I've used that don't suck. But in terms of something that is designed, I really I can't think of any other device, really, other than the iPad, that is really designed to be just a tablet, that where the, where the having a keyboard and a pointing device attached to it is the exception and not the, the expected like daily use case. So yeah, and that, and that means I would say yes, but I wouldn't use that as a way of disparaging the idea of having a desktop grade operating system connected to a touchscreen uh device or something that can be used exclusively as a touchscreen or stylus operator device.
1:55:34 - Leo Laporte
no, their point, was it? It occupies a category of one. Jaws says I hesitate to call it a tablet. I agree with that, because tablets suck and iPads don't, you know. He's not wrong. He's not completely wrong.
1:55:45 - Jason Snell
All right, maybe there are a few things it is a category where apple does not have a lot of serious competition and people.
1:55:51 - Leo Laporte
You know you. This happens on. Ask the tech guys. We're sitting there. Somebody says, well, I want to get one of them samsung tablets. What are you thinking? You and I are both in our heads are going no, no, don't do it no, no, don't do it.
1:56:03 - Jason Snell
No, um, no. I went down a rabbit hole with a bunch of android driven uh e-ink based, like e-readers and the. The e-ink screens are getting better and better. I love my new kobo libra color.
1:56:17 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I've got, I've got that too, they're getting better.
1:56:21 - Jason Snell
They got color, they got faster frame rates. The thing that struck me about all those android based ones was basically, the apps aren't very good, I mean it's only good for reading text, and well, and they're all designed for phones right, and android is not a good tablet operating system.
1:56:36 - Leo Laporte
That's the rule, that's it.
1:56:37 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I mean all those apps on the e-reader that I tried that is shaped like a phone. They were all way better because they're made for phones.
1:56:44 - Mikah Sargent
So not only does the iPad not suck, unlike tablets, but iPad OS doesn't suck in comparison to other tablet OSs.
1:56:56 - Leo Laporte
They also said don't worry we know what we're doing.
1:56:58 - Mikah Sargent
So, uh, you know about what just a rebuttal.
1:57:01 - Leo Laporte
Uh, uh, they know, they know what we're doing about what everything. Uh, yeah, yeah, they talked about the idea of pro turn. His pushes back on the notion that the iPad is less pro, less than pro. He said. That's first of all, it's not defined by the mac. There are other pro things. That's a. There's a funny perception thing he says maybe it's mac people with their notion of what professional, as you saw what the procreate team has done with the apple pencil pro, there is no more professional drawing application in the world than procreate. I mean, they're the lifeblood of ours. I guess he's got a point there. Depends what you mean by pro. Anyway, good article, good interview, good job, harry good get. Uh, german did say that john turnus is. Uh, he had a whole article, which I completely ignored, about the the bench for apple executives. Uh, who's going to replace? Actually, it's probable that Tim Cook would be the first to go. He is close to retirement age.
1:58:02 - Jason Snell
I don't think he's close to modern retirement age. I mean he's he's in his early 60s, right? So how old's our president? Yeah, I mean whoa, how old are both of the people running for president?
1:58:13 - Mikah Sargent
Right Like.
1:58:15 - Jason Snell
I think the real challenge is, if Tim Cook decides he doesn't want to do this job anymore because it's a high pressure job, then again he doesn't seem like a layabout to me.
1:58:23 - Andy Ihnatko
He's kind of like a kind of like a workaholic, and so I mean he might keep doing it for five or 10 years and so but, as he said, like a few months ago in an interview, that it's more of a we asked a little bit about secession it's more like what I could. I could, I could be hit by a bus tomorrow, of course, so that's. That's the sort of situation, right, but I think there's a need to cover.
1:58:43 - Jason Snell
There's an expectation like oh, who's going to, who's going to replace him? And I think everybody thinks Jeff Williams in the near term if he left. But Jeff Williams is only a couple of years younger than that's the problem.
1:58:52 - Leo Laporte
You want a younger guy.
1:58:53 - Jason Snell
He's your hit by a turnip truck kind of scenario. But Ternus is the one that comes up as being like. You know, most of the words against John Ternus are things like oh, he's just another guy in meetings and he doesn't know how to control the meeting, and it's like, well, that's, that's why you learn. That's why you learn and grow.
And if you identify. I mean one of Tim's jobs is identifying a potential replacement and then training them up so that they're ready to take the job off when it's necessary. Maybe that's five or 10 years from now instead of two or three.
1:59:21 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, and if that were to be the case, it would be kind of significant that they pick the guy who's head of hardware engineering, as opposed to head of software or head of services or head of anything else.
1:59:33 - Leo Laporte
Do you think Apple would change a lot under new management?
1:59:37 - Jason Snell
I think the yeah, the jobs, until they have a really disastrous episode from a financial standpoint.
I think the jobs playbook that he built when he came back, that he has kind of gotten that culture built, and they have the Apple University to reinforce the corporate culture.
I think that that is going to stay. I think, though, that if you think about Tim Cook taking over from Steve Jobs, that was an operations guy, and everybody's like, oh no, it's all going to be operations, and certainly there are things Apple does that are very much the operations guy is the CEO now, and they're doing it this way. But also, it's the lesson that you've just got to surround yourself with people who can fill in, right? Nobody's going to be Steve Jobs again, right that? So if it's Ternus and he comes from engineering, that's great, he's got insight into that, but he's still going to need to surround himself with good operations people and good software people and there's a strong culture in that company, but it's that transcends whoever's right, all right, and the parts about it that we don't like we talk about here, but the fact is, whenever you built a corporate culture like that, it's built to last and you take the good with the bad.
But like that was what steve jobs I mean. I really believe that steve jobs final product is apple as a culture. Like he wanted, he was, like this is how we're going to do it and to this day, you hear people talking about it's not a cult of personality, about Steve, but he built almost like a. It's not a cult, it's a culture. It's an Apple culture that is based on his precepts.
2:01:03 - Leo Laporte
And, by the way, at the very end of that whole long thing about executives, Gurman kind of just drops that. Yeah, there'll probably be a new Mac mini with the M4, M4 Pro. You can't help it, you can't resist M4 pro, M4 max chips this year as part of the high-end macbook pro, low-end macbook pro with the M4, and a new mac mini with the M4 and M4 pro next year. Watch out for the M4 macbook air, mac studio, mac pro. So let's take a little break. Andy's got to get out of the library. Our picks of the week coming up in just a bit.
I do want to take a moment to encourage you to join the club. Many of you listen to our shows maybe even more than one show a week, like what we say are interested in the information you get here. Can I invite you to join our community? It's very affordable seven bucks a month. We want to keep it that way. You get all those shows ad-free. You get a video of everything we do, including Micah's excellent hands-on Macintosh show, which is only audio in the public, but the video goes to the club. You get access to the community directly through our Club TWiT Discord, which is not just about the shows but it's about everything that we are interested in. I think it's a good value and it helps us stay on the air, and we do need that help, honestly. twit.tv/clubtwit. If you're not yet a member, may I invite you to join the fun? We would love to have you, hi Mom, hi Mom, to join the fun. We would love to have you. Hi Mom, hi Mom. Andy Ihnatko, pick of the week.
2:02:40 - Andy Ihnatko
My pick is I've been looking at a lot of habit trackers and not liking many of them because a lot of them I just want to remember to do this thing as many times a week as I'm supposed to be doing it Again, to build, to establish a habit so that I no longer need a habit tracker. And most of the habit trackers I've been trying out are like they're a new source of stress because they keep annoying you and they keep like saying oh well, I don't know, you didn't do it. Yesterday you said you're trying to do it like five times, you're really going to have to pick it up. But so I found this one that Not Boring Habits that I really really like. It's because the whole principle of it is not that it's trying to gamify a habit so much as trying to help you build one, saying if you do something 60 days in a row, you're probably going to not need this app anymore. I think they actually say in their web page that our goal is that you will stop using this app after a certain amount of time, and it makes it like every time you say, okay, I did this thing.
It makes it to a little like. There's a little like piece of artwork that you see every time. You kind of update it and I really really like it. Before I started looking at tracker apps, I actually started like hand drawing calendars on my phone because my phone has the phone has that like markup feature. So I like the idea of like every the first, every month, I'm going to hand draw a calendar. They're going to enjoy drawing an x on every day of the week when I actually like maintain this thing that I was supposed to do and this is very much like that. It's 15 bucks a year but it really is like a piece of interactive art that kind of helps you to establish a habit that you think is going to be good for you in the long term, and it's one of those really super weird apps that I just like to promote, I just like to encourage I love it.
There are way too many apps that are just efficient and have a marketing plan and, while we don't want to discover it, we don't want to make people think that this is a weird app or this is no, it really. It flies its freak flag proudly and that's why I love this app.
2:04:36 - Leo Laporte
Downloading it right now.
2:04:37 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah and Not Boring makes a lot of great apps.
2:04:40 - Leo Laporte
It's a great name for a company. Really, what else do they do? This is cool Habits, Vibes, Weather Timer and Calculator. All right, Check it out. Thank you, Andy. When are you going to be on GBH next?
2:04:56 - Andy Ihnatko
Probably next tuesday, as a matter of fact, before the show.
2:04:57 - Leo Laporte
But don't worry, I'm not going to the boston public library, I'm going to be just bring a good microphone, that's all I'll bring up, in fact I will send you I will send you the money to get one of those sony not sony, sure motive microphones that are designed to work with the iPad. How about that? I will take that. Okay, john, let's get on about it okay. Thank you, andy, I'll let you go because I know you have to clear out. So, uh, the next podcaster can go in. Have a good day. Take care, uh, mr micah sargent, host of ios today, tech news weekly, and ask the tech guys what do you like these days?
2:05:34 - Mikah Sargent
I am going to talk about an app that I just downloaded.
2:05:36 - Leo Laporte
today, I see, you playing with it and now I want it.
2:05:39 - Mikah Sargent
It's called Morfolio Trace and it was mentioned on the iPad Pro page on Apple's website and it's an app for architects. But what's cool about it is I could see using this for doing some floor plan kind of stuff. Yeah, I need to do some floor plan. Yeah, yeah, because you've got that that you need to do.
2:05:59 - Leo Laporte
Exactly yeah, I got to design a studio for the home. And so this is I'm going to paint everything green, ooh, and then that way it'll look whatever. Oh, it'll be green screen, yeah, whatever.
2:06:10 - Mikah Sargent
I want it to look like, not that that's not a good Anyway, that's like the worst screen. But this has a lot of Apple Pencil features so it works with Hover, for example. It is probably going to work very quickly with the squeeze that's there as well, and the barrel roll. You've got all of the standard features that you would need as an architect or interior or exterior designer standard features that you would need as an architect or interior or exterior designer and it's available for free to download with kind of the base sketch functions to add templates and things like that. You'll need the pro subscription, but I think for people who are pros, who want to make use of those features, they are able to, for it's only $9.99 a year for the Plus version and $22 a year for the Pro version. That's actually surprising to me because I thought it was going to be a lot more than that. That's a really good price $10 a year and you gain access to a lot of the stencils.
A lot less than many of the other Than many of the other Pro apps, and so you can do things like add in, you know, trees and and uh, be able to sketch out different areas. So a pretty cool app, and that's called, again, morpholio trace. What a silly name. Indeed, it is a silly name morpholio cornholio trace it's out there right now, just for you.
2:07:33 - Leo Laporte
It uses the Apple Pencil. Jason Snell pick of the week, sir.
2:07:39 - Jason Snell
I've been talking about it today. According to mbwpickscom, the official resource for all past MacBreak Weekly Picks, it has been six long years since this was a pick. Well, let's do it. So I'm going to re-pick it. It is Ferrite Recording Studio. I mentioned it. I use this to edit podcasts on the iPad with the Apple Pencil, although you can also use your hands. You can use the keyboard and the trackpad whatever you like, but it is way cheaper than Logic. It's much more functional than GarageBand.
Probably easier to use than Logic. It's easier to use than Logic. Logic is actually bad for podcasts on iOS. This is an iPad and iPhone-hone only product. How would you do eight microphones? That's interesting. Uh yeah, you can either do it as inputs or you can just. You can plug in a.
2:08:24 - Leo Laporte
You have to have some hardware.
2:08:25 - Jason Snell
You plug in some hardware and then you can actually do multi-track record as well. That's really. It's really capable. Does it'll export mp3s with chapters? It says?
2:08:33 - Leo Laporte
jason Snell editor in six colors.
2:08:35 - Jason Snell
I'm I'm one of the wow I am one of the fan, big fans of this. It is. It is a really. If you are editing audio for especially spoken word, um podcasts, uh, if you're like working in radio or something like. I know that the iphone version gets used a lot by radio reporters who very quickly capture audio and then just use their phone to cut it up, to cut it up and send it back to the studio, and my favorite use of the Apple Pencil is to use this. It is such a deal. Basically, I think it's the best tool for podcast editing value-wise that's out there, because I don't know what the current in-app purchase price is, but I don't know. 20 bucks, 30 bucks, it's not a lot. And Logic costs a lot, lot, yeah, um, and it's better than a subscription.
That's the real yeah, so I I highly recommend it and I will just say not to give too much away, but when I mentioned that there was an app that I was using that uh already had a beta that supports the squeeze it was this I'm not. Maybe I'm not supposed to admit that well, we don't know.
2:09:35 - Leo Laporte
It's a really good.
2:09:36 - Jason Snell
Those guys at woogee juice are good it's a really good developer who really cares about keeping the platform up to thirty dollars to buy, thirty dollars, 15 to upgrade if you had version two and it is, uh, super worth it. So if you're somebody who has thought about, you know, editing audio on the iPad or the iphone, I I could not recommend this thing more. It's really good, like it's better than doing it on the Mac as far as I'm concerned.
2:10:00 - Mikah Sargent
I know a friend of the show, steven Robles, also uses it regularly.
2:10:03 - Leo Laporte
The bearded tutor. The bearded tutor yes, the bearded tutor likes it.
2:10:07 - Jason Snell
There's something about the tactile as somebody who edited podcasts for a long time just using Logic on the Mac Something about like using your own hands to actually edit the audio. I think I do a better job of editing on iPad with Ferrite and the pencil.
2:10:20 - Leo Laporte
As Woody Allen once said, there's nothing wrong with using your own hands. Exactly right it's somebody you love yeah.
2:10:26 - Mikah Sargent
Thank you, Jason Snell. I love the yes and of that.
2:10:29 - Jason Snell
Reference acknowledged.
2:10:30 - Leo Laporte
Sixcollarscom. By the way, that was Ferrite from Wooji Juice W-O-O-J-I Wooji Juice. Look forward to more stuff about the new technologies. Of course, your review is already up at sixcolorscom on the iPad Pro. Check it out You're going to do a separate review on the keyboard.
2:10:53 - Jason Snell
My keyboard review is basically in the iPad. I've got an iPad Air. I guess I need to review that. Oh, you've got the Air, you know that poor Air.
2:11:01 - Leo Laporte
Everybody just ignores it. It's like it never even came out.
2:11:03 - Jason Snell
It's kind of made of recycled technologies, though.
2:11:07 - Leo Laporte
And recycled aluminum as long as it's not made of people. Mr Mike Sargent he's got his new iPad Pro 11-inch. It's so neat. It is really cute. Now I'm really thinking I should have gotten a small one.
2:11:19 - Mikah Sargent
Maybe I should put a little Google Y on it. Wait a minute.
2:11:21 - Leo Laporte
That's weird. It's exactly the size of your head.
2:11:24 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, it's like it was meant to be.
2:11:26 - Leo Laporte
But see, let me see, I think it's too small for my head.
2:11:31 - Jason Snell
Well, no, well, no, it's head size, that'll be great, that's what Apple wants people to say is it's 10 out of 11.
2:11:37 - Leo Laporte
size of your head See this is so much bigger than the size of my head. Yeah, that's, you know that's not good.
2:11:45 - Mikah Sargent
You should put your face on it. Just hold it up in front of your face.
2:11:48 - Leo Laporte
I want googly eyes. I'm going to put googly eyes on my big one. I think it'd be cute. You should have a little googly eyes on it.
Thank you all for joining us. Thanks especially to our Club TWiT members who make this show possible. Thank you for your contributions. We really appreciate it.
Um, you can watch us do it live. Normally we're we're as weird as a Wednesday edition of MacBreak Weekly, but for good reason we'll be back in our Tuesday slot 11 am, pacific 2 pm, 1800 UTC. You can watch all the shows we do live. You can watch them live on YouTube. We've moved it all to YouTube youtube.com/twit/live. Of course, if you're a Club TWiT member, we have a private little room for you behind the velvet rope there that you can all watch. You can even see after and before the show, if you're in the club, on-demand versions of the show available on our website, twit.tv/mbw. There's a YouTube channel dedicated to the video. You can go there and watch. You can also use it to clip if you want to share something a little moment you thought was important, please do. We love it when you do. That Helps us promote the show.
After the show is produced. Of course, the easiest way to get it is to just let it download automatically in your favorite podcast player. Subscribe now and you'll get the next one. Actually, if you subscribe now, you'll get it. Well, it depends on your listening. If you subscribe now, you'll get the next one automatically the minute it's available. Thanks, everybody. Get back to work, though because break time is over. Bye!
