MacBreak Weekly Episode 808 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Andy Ihnatko is here, Alex Lindsay's here. And so are the new max, a new monitor, a new iPhone and a new iPad. We've got some surprises and delights from Apple's peak performance event. Coming up next.

Speaker 2 (00:00:18):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:26):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 808 recorded Tuesday, March 8th, 2022 surprises and delights. Macbreak Weekly is brought to you by imperfect foods, combating climate change fields, big and overwhelming, but there's an easy and delicious way to make an impact imperfect foods. Right now, imperfect foods is offering 20% off to all of our listeners on your first four orders. When you go to imperfect foods.com and use the promo code MacBreak and buy better help, give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used better help. Online therapy as a listener, you'll get 10% off your first month by visiting better help.com/MacBreak. And by new Relic, that next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 gigabytes of data free per month. Forever. No credit card required. Sign up at new relic.com/MacBreak. It's time for MacBreak Weekly. The show we cover the latest news from Apple and yes, there's some news. Alex Lindsay is here from oh nine media and office hours.

Alex Lindsay (00:01:46):
Smell smoke. You smell smoke?

Leo Laporte (00:01:47):
It's the credit card.

Alex Lindsay (00:01:48):
It's a little hot, a little warm. It's a little hot. It's like I just keep trying to keep it out of frame. I just, just like this little bellowing thing, that's coming up outta my pants.

Leo Laporte (00:01:57):
Andy Ihnatko also here. WGB H in BostonRene getting briefed. What a, yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:04):
I, I, I don't, I don't see it on the camera, but can you see is like the ghost of my dad like manifesting over my right shoulder telling now, now son, you, you have $2,000. You even have $4,000. That doesn't mean this now is a good time to spend $4,000 on a new,

Leo Laporte (00:02:21):
Oh now is an excellent time to spend 4,000. That,

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:24):
That, that is very right. It's the very, that's the very sensible voice that comes in my head.

Leo Laporte (00:02:29):
So we are still a little giddy having just come off Apple's peak performance event. I will admit I was wrong. There were no VR headsets. We were not peaking at anything. That's not yet out. In fact it was, it should have been P a K performance because it was all about performance. We will cover it all but we might Hasen through the first bits to get to the really juicy stuff. Yeah. Just your thought Sandy, about the whole event,

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:07):
A lot of big messaging here. I, first of all, I was a little bit surprised there was no messaging about Ukraine, although they, although Tim cook did, has made public statements in the past, in the past couple,

Leo Laporte (00:03:18):
Thinking about that. I think the reason for that is that this was prerecorded and the risk of prerecording, something that would be unfortunate at, you know, the, at the last minute was too high. So rather than say anything, maybe, yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:03:32):
It may have been finished before the, it may have been finished before the the war, all the shoot may have happened before the shoot for the war. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:40):
But, but other than that, this, this was a, a lot of really great specific announcements that we're gonna get into, but this was, there was such cons, such tidy storytelling and messaging. I thought it was super interesting that this wasn't presented as, and now let's bring out. So and so to talk about iPhone, now's talk about, so and so to talk about Mac, this was really presented as an Apple Silicon event and saying, here are three, here are some expressions of how we're using Apple, Silicon which I thought which I thought was just, just huge. The other, the the, another note since we're talking about broad stuff okay. Bad. I'm sorry that I'm meaning I, now

Leo Laporte (00:04:19):
I, if you're going where I think you're going, that was a bad I'm choice awards.

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:23):
I'm very, very sorry. Cause I did mean, but what I'm saying is I did, I did notice and did appreciate that there were very, very few men chosen as, as presenters here, even when they did, like, here's a, here's a test video testimonials from developers. When they're talking about the, the new processor they were talking, they were all talking to non male developers and it's

Leo Laporte (00:04:42):
Because it international women's day to day and Tim cook every year, in fact, tweets that you know, celebrating women. Yeah. And it was very appropriate. I noticed it too, Annie, that all the creators were women, Bravo, Apple that's. Exactly.

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:56):
And, and also, and also because I'm sure that we've, we've been doing the show for over decades. So we, we we've been through the dark some dark times. So it's, it's not just that, Hey, we found some women who were working as managers at Apple to put thrust on stage. It was no, it's just that the person who's in charge of iPhone, the person who's in charge of this is a female executive. And so of course we chose that person. So lot, lots of well, and lots of more stuff that we'll talk, we we'll get into in to get there. But yeah, I thought that it was, it was absolutely solid gold as, as a presentation. So tidy that, keeping their messaging on point and once again, underscores at how laser focused and precise they can be when they prerecord. And preed everything.

Leo Laporte (00:05:37):
If you look at though Tim Cook's blue sweater and his yellow, a watch band, there is a subtle, poor Ukrainian message in there. So good point. I, I think they did in fact, record this after the war broke out 12, 13 days ago. I'm I was saying at the beginning, I bet you, they had Tim cook standing by as late last night. If he's gonna mention Ukraine, he's gonna be able to yeah, exactly. Have to be able to modify it. So I think that there was probably wise for them just to avoid it all together and very,

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:06):
Very change, quickly, quickly evolving situation. And if there was some sort of disaster even later on today that

Leo Laporte (00:06:14):
Yeah, and we know, and we know where they stand on it because they, none of these products will be available in Russia

Alex Lindsay (00:06:21):
So well, and they also put Camia back into the Ukraine.

Leo Laporte (00:06:24):
Oh, I did that good for them. Is that everywhere? Or just in the us? I,

Alex Lindsay (00:06:27):
I think it's

Leo Laporte (00:06:28):
Everywhere.

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:29):
Well, not, not in Russia, but yeah, they Russia, they changed specifically because of they, they were forced to, so the invasion was in 2014, in 2019, they and other map makers changed it because in Russia it became against the law to represent the borders as non Russian. And so this was your basic flipping the bird back at Russia saying, okay, we don't even care anymore. They, they are, they are, they are they are following the laws of the country tree in which that they are operating, but elsewhere it is not not as has been said, a disputed region. Now they're saying specifically, no, this is, this, this territory belongs to Ukraine.

Leo Laporte (00:07:08):
Well, in one way to avoid that issue is to not sell your products in that country. And that's the other thing. Exactly.

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:14):
Join, join the club. Yeah, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:15):
Yeah. I think Alex, I think that overall, I think that the I have to say, so I don't understand why they're using teleprompters for records, you know, like I just don't, I don't get it. It

Leo Laporte (00:07:24):
Takes a lot of the spontaneity out of it. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:26):
It just, it, well, and it's, it's this, every sentence has a gap. Yeah. You know, now the women who presented the the new that was, yeah, they were really good because they

Leo Laporte (00:07:35):
Were talking,

Alex Lindsay (00:07:36):
That was some of the best presentation I have seen in a long time at an Apple keynote, or almost any keynote outside of Salesforce, Salesforce trains their folks a lot harder than everybody else. And so there's a really good but outside of that Apple, you know, tends to be a little stale and, and I, and I feel like they just don't need that. They they're, pre-recording just, you know, and I know that takes time for someone to be able to do it for member, but you only have to do it in little chunks, you know? And so, so I, I think that, you know, I, I, I think that, that, and I, and I have to admit that watching this, I kind of started to feel like, do we really need the, the motif of a stage anymore? Like, can we just make this a show? You know, like I don't, if

Leo Laporte (00:08:15):
He was, you know, I do wanna get to the, the actual products, but this is the meta conversation. It was interesting that they eliminated, they as chewed, the production elements they had used in the past, the drone shots, the zooming around and all of that stuff. Remember for a while we thought, oh, they they're now they're gonna start to branch out and do bits of it from the grand canyon and bits of it from, yeah. None of that. I thought

Alex Lindsay (00:08:38):
That was really exciting. And I thought this one was a boring. Yeah. I don't

Leo Laporte (00:08:41):
Compared to it. Why do you think you think that we did this in a hurry? 

Alex Lindsay (00:08:45):
I think that, I think that the a I think they might be preparing to go back to a stage, you know, in the near future and they may have thought, so

Leo Laporte (00:08:51):
Ramp ramp down ramp down. Yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:08:53):
Yeah. Ramp ramp it back down again, which I think is not gonna work. I think that they're gonna eventually have to turn back towards the production because I think that the production was great. And and I think that if I hadn't been watching with 150 people on zoom, I probably would've like just decided I'd wait and look at the notes. You know, it was just, it just was, it was too slow, you know, I think that was the thing for me.

Leo Laporte (00:09:14):
I, on the other hand was hyperventilating through at least all at least the second half. So I didn't feel like it was slow at all. Well,

Alex Lindsay (00:09:23):
I mean, once we got to the, once we got to the, I, the thing we're not in office hours, we're not the market for the se. So we were just like, okay, let's go. You know, and then,

Leo Laporte (00:09:31):
So probably nobody listening is either, but we're gonna, so the first segment of the show, we're gonna do all the boring stuff. We're gonna get that outta the way, and then we're gonna get to the good stuff. And actually, I think there's a lot to be said about the iPad air. There's some interesting, really powerful. Yeah. I have some real questions about that, but first they started everything off with a, an advertisement for Apple TV, plus all the things they have all the awards they're nominated for the Friday

Alex Lindsay (00:09:56):
Night

Leo Laporte (00:09:56):
Baseball. That's the big, that's the big announcement, right? They got baseball. Of course it's gonna be a shortened season. And I think people have stopped caring baseball by now. They only have two games exclusive to Apple TV plus

Alex Lindsay (00:10:12):
I think that the MLB was the obvious first choice because basically HLS is built around what MLB was. Oh, interesting. You know, like, so that's

Leo Laporte (00:10:20):
Because I remember this, this goes back to the days with major league baseball who was very early on the streaming platform with ML, the LBF didn't, they go to somebody who disappointed them, who let them down. And they,

Alex Lindsay (00:10:30):
They came to HLS and Apple basically has designed that HLS around what MLB wanted. And so, so the, the, you know, a lot of that pipeline is so well formed inside of the MLB pipeline. And so it's, it would be, I mean, obviously there's some support on the app and everything else, but it's effortless from Apple's perspective, from a transmission perspective to, to carry live games from MLB, because it's using exactly what Apple uses. So

Leo Laporte (00:10:55):
They went, I think, to HBO first though, didn't they,

Alex Lindsay (00:10:59):
They might have, I mean, back in the day, you remember this history streaming was very, this

Leo Laporte (00:11:02):
Is eight, seven or eight years ago. They were pioneers in this. And I feel like they, they went to one company that, and I can't remember who it

Alex Lindsay (00:11:11):
Was. And, and we have to remember that it was the wild, wild west before HLS, because I remember HLS is what everybody delivered, you know, YouTube, your, your videos in HLS, you know, so, so before HLS, it was kind of the wild, wild west and things kind of worked and kind of didn't work and everything else. And then, and then MLB, you know kind of figured this out and they started making a lot of requests and they've gotten a lot of those requests.

Leo Laporte (00:11:31):
And so HLS is HTTP live streaming it's

Alex Lindsay (00:11:34):
And is Apples.

Leo Laporte (00:11:35):
It's basically free HTML fives, streaming. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:11:40):
Kind of it's a fair no, I don't, no it's preexist that, you know, it, it was really, but it was an ACP protocol and basically it's not streaming in the way we would think of it. It's just copying files to your drive and deleting them really fast. So it's, it's not really stream, you know, cuz basically what's happening is, is there's you take segments and you throw and those segments might be two seconds long or six seconds long and they have a time to live. So basically they, they come to you and they, they drop 'em off, you watch them and then they, and then very quickly after that they, they get rid of them. And so, so that's, and, and and so that's the, that's what Apple figure it out, how to do, rather than trying to actually stream it to you. And it made it a lot more stable.

Leo Laporte (00:12:17):
So Friday night baseball, there were rumors that they were negotiating with the NFL for something that would be much more valuable and much more expensive, the Sunday ticket. Yeah. Which is currently on direct TV. I'm sure they would like to have announced that that may have actually been why they held up recording this cuz they would've like to announce that, but that deal has not been done. So they've got baseball. I, I, this is very much Apple. This is really on, on message for Apple TV. Plus we don't have the best stuff, but we have some good stuff, but it's not the best stuff.

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:51):
Well, but the, but they can, I think that if they, if they were responsible for carrying one 12 of NFL games in a season that would've put a huge responsibility on them and I think would've limited what they can do with they're trying

Leo Laporte (00:13:04):
To get no they're

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:05):
Trying to get well they're no, but, but I think I, I, I believe that, but I, I like the idea that this is not the entire season. They're, it's not until like August or September that these games gonna be hugely important that if they get the ability to talk to MLB and work out coverage together, that we can have we can, we can create an app for Apple TV that basically makes it so much easier to get through the tedious points of baseball that you can change camera angles. You can basically decide what kind of coverage that you on. I would love to see them do for live sports coverage, what they managed to do with their power on on the first iPhone on how the internet works on a phone, they were able to tell, talk to at and T and say, what if they're, what, if you don't just have limited, we limited mobile only like a text based apps. What if you actually gave people a real connection to the internet? I think there could, there could be a lot of great stuff being done there. I, and I'm a fan of baseball, so I'm not the person who's screaming that, oh, the game should be 45 minutes long or there should be there, there should be paintball guns that they have to run through from second to third.

Alex Lindsay (00:14:10):
Yeah. I think that actually baseball is one of the baseball and cricket are really good sports for interactivity, because, because there's not, it it's moving so slowly that you can do a lot of things in between, you know? So, so the thing is, is being able to have extra commentary, people chatting, extra data, all these things, you know, those, you know, golf, cricket, baseball, the problem with doing those kinds of things with basket all or soccer or even football is that everything's moving so quickly and it's always happening. It's always coming at you. Whereas this is one and it's a little bit more of a slow pace, but you, what, what we're missing is not yet, we don't need to shorten the game. What we need to do is add things in between. Now when I grew up, we were keeping that little scorecard, the whole game. So I, I was,

Leo Laporte (00:14:54):
Yeah, I'm a baseball. It was

Alex Lindsay (00:14:55):
A very busy game, but let's very busy. Game's

Leo Laporte (00:14:57):
Demographics of baseball are terrible. It's for old people. Yeah. It's slow moving viewership for the world series this year was half what it was five years ago. It is not a growth sport. It's the second sport you'd want. You'd really want, I mean, in, in, if you're talking global, you'd want soccer or you'd want, you know, maybe cricket, but but in the us, you want NFL. This was as recently as a week ago from the sports business journal, Apple and Amazon front runners for the Sunday ticket. We reported that last week. I don't, I'm sure that they were trying to get this done before the event today. And I, I really think that this was okay, we'll settle for your son baseball on Friday

Alex Lindsay (00:15:37):
And hopefully we're gonna see some innovation. You know, the thing is, is that right now, even with Amazon, Amazon's on a little bit of work on the Thursday night football ticket where they're doing a 4k stream, honestly. Yeah. It's yeah. It's but I think that I'd love to see them push, you know I'd to see Apple with MLB on the games that they cover, do things like high frame rate HTR, you know, and then interactivity, there's a whole second screen experience with iPads and iPhones that isn't being utilized. And I think that that's the kind of stuff that could be really interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:16:04):
Probably the only reason that NFL would even talk to 'em. I be honest with you

Alex Lindsay (00:16:08):
Money, you know, money's a big reason and,

Leo Laporte (00:16:11):
And it's a $2 billion package. It's an expensive,

Alex Lindsay (00:16:14):
I mean, Apple can pay anything that they ask for. And that's, I think what they have to do is figure out, does that reduce their relevancy if they lose all broadcasts, you know, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:16:22):
From, from the least important event announcement on this event to the second least important, the iPhone will now come in Alpine green.

Andy Ihnatko (00:16:33):
No, no, no, but you no only Alpine green, if you, if you cut out for the pro model, the, the green, they have a green for the peons for the poppers. Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:16:40):
The Alpine green prefer for the exclusive ones, fancy folk,

Andy Ihnatko (00:16:44):
Well money versus new money.

Leo Laporte (00:16:45):
But then as soon as they did that the whole tone changed cuz Steve Tim cook said, now let's talk about Apple Silicon. And as you said, this is really where Apple shines. They

Alex Lindsay (00:16:58):
They're they're, I mean, they are pulling away. I mean, it is, yeah, it is, you know, it's they are at I mean we saw this one when M one came out and was that popular at this pace? It's gonna take them like two or three more updates before anyone's even close. It's

Leo Laporte (00:17:11):
Mind boggling what they're doing. Yeah. They did start slow with the iPhone se, which really looks like the vintage, the retro iPhone with its rounded corners and a touch ID button and all of that. But it does have the latest process or the a 15 bionic in it, sports 5g.

Andy Ihnatko (00:17:29):
I thought that that was very, very significant. I think that they're very, very clearly saying get given that there's way more performance inside every iPhone than anybody is ever going to use, particularly when you get to the iPhone se they could easily get by with with the a 14, the a, the a 13 something older. I think the fact that they're putting the same chip in every single film that they make makes it really clear that whatever they intend to do in the near future with software, with operating systems, with, with services, they don't want to have a line of demarcation between iPhone users who can use this and iPhone users who can't use this. They want every iPhone to be able to run the exact same software, and it's probably gonna be what that's smart and the, and they, and they need, and they need the neural engine to do it. Yeah. So this, this makes, this makes the whole platform a lot more interesting than I usually react to for a, a, a refreshing of the iPhone se

Leo Laporte (00:18:17):
This is, you know, if you don't care about having all the fancy cameras you wanna save the price is $429 as starting price comes at product red white and black, which the, they call Starlight in midnight respectively. But look, I mean, really feels like an old fashioned iPhone. And I think that this really appeals to a lot of normal people's. This is the iPhone that most people will. Want's fine. Yeah. I have to say you know, after Apple's announcement, two years ago of 5g 5g, 5g, 5g, 5g, I was very skeptical at that point. And it it's true that millimeter wave 5g has been very, as fast as it is, has been very limited in it in its reach. Now that mid mid band 5g is coming out very rapidly, low band, which T-Mobile's had and others for sometime isn't much faster than LTE, mid band is at and T Verizon. And T-Mobile all are doing it. And I I have a Verizon phone and a T-Mobile phone here in little Podunk, Petaluma getting the mid band, they call it UW on Verizon and UC on T-Mobile and it's 500 megabits down and 30 megabits up. It's really fast, fast enough that I would even consider the residential service from Verizon is a good for ISP,

Alex Lindsay (00:19:32):
But what are we using it for?

Leo Laporte (00:19:33):
Well, like, I'm sorry, residential ISP for one oh, residential. Yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:19:37):
Yeah. Is the price, right?

Leo Laporte (00:19:39):
Yeah. It's very comparable to cable. It's a little less than maybe 10 bucks, less than cable. So, but also if you can get 500 down and 30 up on a phone that can do it you know, I mean, immediately there's other issues cuz you're gonna hit your data cap pretty quick that way. Right. but the point is it's now much more widespread. Every every company's rolling it out very quickly. And so 5g maybe is more important than it was back when it was all, all for the place. 5G. Yeah. 64 gigs is the base model a hundred twenty two fifty six gigs is the top. That's good too, by the way, I'm tired of people. You know, calling me saying, I only have a six, eight gigs on my iPhone. How can I upgrade it? You gotta do that. If you wanna keep it up date. And that's the most important thing that this will be getting all the updates, all, all the other iPhones will be getting. Yeah. Some people want a 4.7 inch screen. I think that there's a market for that. Did they still mini? I don't even remember.

Alex Lindsay (00:20:42):
It's nice. Hear that. We use a lot of these phones, oftentimes as like ill extras or one company phones or whatever. And it's good to have one that's not, not so expensive yeah. To, to have to, to fill those gaps. And for kids, you know, like these, this is the kind of one I wouldn't spend a thousand dollars for my kid, no $500. Maybe

Leo Laporte (00:20:58):
It gets people in the market. Right. 

Andy Ihnatko (00:21:00):
Also, also they don't want to have that line of, they don't want have that separation between people are gonna be buying Android phones for their kid. They want to, they wanna make sure that they, they all stay in the family on one thing.

Leo Laporte (00:21:11):
Yeah. That's super important. So there's definitely a market for these. I'm sure they sell well. So welcome to the iPhone. It's weird cuz it doesn't have a number. So it's hard to, you know, it's just the se yeah. But it's the new se with the a 15 bionic in it and 

Andy Ihnatko (00:21:30):
13 mini is still a thing.

Leo Laporte (00:21:31):
It is a thing. Okay. Yes. You don't, they don't talk about it a lot.

Andy Ihnatko (00:21:35):
I don't. And the thing and the thing is what what would you get out of it? You can get higher capacity. It does come in green. You do get the face

Leo Laporte (00:21:46):
ID. Yeah, yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:21:47):
A no, but the, the a 15 is now the great leveler in this entire thing. Okay. You also get the dual camera system, so, okay. You are getting stuff with it. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:21:54):
You're getting a little bit more by the way, everything we're gonna talk about, and this is the other thing hallelujah will be or available for a pre-order today. Like before the show even ended, I was ordering the new studio Mac and delivering if you get it in time as early as March 18th, a week from Friday. So there there were, no, this was not a peak at something coming. Exactly. they did at the very end say, yeah. Okay. We've done all of it. Except for one Mac. There's still one Mac. We're gonna do a Mac pro

Andy Ihnatko (00:22:35):
Still to come.

Alex Lindsay (00:22:37):
And I think that they, like, it looked a little smuggle, like, like here's what we did before we did the Mac pro like watch what happens now. Like yeah. Know, I,

Leo Laporte (00:22:45):
My mind's already blown with what they announced today. Right. I don't know what a Mac pro is gonna look like, but we're gonna get to that. We're gonna get to that. I do, let's take a break. Now I'm trying to, I'm trying to divide this into three chunks, so we'll do the iPad next. And that'll be a fairly short thing compared to the big chunk, which is gonna be new max new monitor. Very

Alex Lindsay (00:23:08):
Orders in. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:23:10):
Me too. Several.

Alex Lindsay (00:23:11):
We talk about ourselves

Leo Laporte (00:23:12):
Credit card already burning up is heating up. Just how many did you buy?

Alex Lindsay (00:23:18):
I just bought one. I bought two. I, I already have eight Mac menus. No, I know

Leo Laporte (00:23:22):
Like actually I bought three. I bought one for me, high end one for Lisa medium end and one for Micah, cuz he needed a new, he was due for a new computer and plus he doesn't have an M one and he's the host of iOS today. And so he needs to, he needs to look at iOS apps on the Mac, which by the way, Apple was spend some time saying by the way iOS apps on the Mac, you know, don't forget. Don't forget. Yeah. That's very important. All right, we'll have I was, by the way, during this, I they're teasing it out and I'm going crazy and I'm gonna do the same thing to you. Yeah. We're not gonna tell you what we actually got. Teasing it out. We get there. I'll we'll get to it. We'll get to it. But first I wanna talk about imperfect foods, which as far as I'm concerned is absolutely perfect.

Leo Laporte (00:24:14):
Thursday's imperfect food day at the LePort household. Imperfect foods is a grocery delivery service that makes you feel good. You, you know, combating climate change feels like it's big. It's overwhelming. What can you do? One person all by yourself? Well, you can't make an impact with imperfect foods. It's a grocery delivery service offering an entire line of sustainable groceries that taste delicious and reduce waste just by embracing the natural imperfections in food. Now, before I go too much farther, cuz I know you're gonna want this. I wanna tell you, you should go to imperfect foods.com, make sure that it's available in your area. It is not available in all areas. But if it is, you are in luck. So the idea initially was there's a lot of produce that grocers won't stock because they only want the giants at Apples. The POME granite's as big as your head, you know the, and, and they, and there's which means that as much as a third of the us food creation is is, is just not never sold.

Leo Laporte (00:25:19):
It's thrown away fed to animals, but it's never sold because groceries say no, no, no, I can't sell that Apple. It looks like it just was on a tree. Well, I grew up with Apples off the tree. They're sweeter. They're better. And that's what you get within imperfect foods. Delicious produce the grocer didn't wanna carry, but is better than anything you've you've had in a long time. It's fresh, it's seasonal, but now they even sell all your favorite pantry, staples, yummy snacks. The meats that they sell have the same kind of philosophy, sustainable man. The heritage chickens we get in PERTs are fantastic. Now, once you sign up you every week, you can personalize your order. Choose what you want from that big range. They have dairy as well. Your order will lie from the same day every week, like I said, ours is Thursday, but they do that purpose because they want to consolidate all the deliveries in your area into one day, which reduces emissions.

Leo Laporte (00:26:15):
In fact, delivering weekly by neighborhood produces 25 to 75%, fewer emissions than all those people going to the grocery store. On average imperfect food customers save six to eight pounds of food with every order food that would go would just not be in the system. So you are really doing a good thing for the planet and a good thing to yourself. They're the only national grocery delivery company that makes it easy to return your packaging. After every order they minimize plastics. I always just break down the box, put all the packaging together. Sometimes there's a cool, you know, a cool wrap of and a ice bag. I put that all together, leave it on the porch. When they come on Thursday, they pick it up, recycle it. So you don't have that guilt that you've got a lot of packaging. You just have great food right now, 20% and off your first four orders.

Leo Laporte (00:27:06):
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Leo Laporte (00:28:01):
We, these are things we expected. It's got 5g in it. It's got an M one processor in it. Now that's interesting. Not an a 15, but an M one. Now it's the same. And Rene would tell you it's the same, but what I thought was intriguing. And I'm curious, what you think is this is really starting to verge on the iPad pro same design. Yeah. same processor, eight core M one. It's got us B, C they have a smart keyboard for, it starts at 5 99. So it's a great price. How do we make the distinction or maybe we're gonna see a pro leap forward. What is what's gonna happen here? I don't know why you buy a pro now.

Andy Ihnatko (00:28:43):
Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm, I've been looking have the specs just to make sure that I'm, I'm clear on things. You, the, the biggest difference is that you don't get Thunderbolt on, on the, on the air that thunderbolts now only on the iPad, iPad pro, and it's a very, very tight comparison between the, the, the 10.9 inch pro and the the 11 inch air because even if extra displays are still not a problem, cuz you can still connect display port through USBC on the iPad air, you lose higher capacity storage. You lose one camera, I think, but in terms of someone who wants a cheap and excuse me, a mid range iPad laptop that doesn't necessarily want a 12.9 inch play it's it really is the difference between how do you define yourself as a pro? And if you can dis dissuade yourself of needing Thunderbolt or or, or 512 gigs of storage, it seems as though you wanna save that money and get the smart to get the match keyboard instead

Leo Laporte (00:29:43):
It's a similar display, but not exactly the same as on the pro it's P3. True tone. A little bit less.

Andy Ihnatko (00:29:51):
Right. But it's not like micro, excuse me. It's but it's not mini

Leo Laporte (00:29:55):
E D. Yeah. It,

Andy Ihnatko (00:29:56):
It's not, it's not as though the, the pro is many E DS. You're not getting the other reason for going through the 12.9 when I bought mine was that I want that better display. Right. so there's still, there's still, you're not necessarily kicking yourself that hard for getting a pro a 12.9. If you wanted the M one chip, it

Leo Laporte (00:30:11):
Does have the front facing 12 megapixel camera. Now everything has that that centering, you know center stage here, center stage where it moves around with even the new monitor is that, which is, I thought was kind of interesting. So yeah, I mean, it's, you're gonna have to really look if you wanna get an iPad pro at why you're spending the extra money. I

Alex Lindsay (00:30:32):
See. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a huge cost difference between 500 nit and I think it's 1600 nit on the other, on the other display. So they are definitely saving some money there as far as that goes. But I think that I think that it's a very usable Mac. I mean, if, if I was a school against again, March tends to be a kind of a nod towards last purchases that schools might do. It's not a, not a bad, not a bad iPad to use. Yeah. If you're thinking about iPads, if you're thinking that

Leo Laporte (00:30:57):
Direction, actually, honestly this could even be a college I I've laptop and quotes, but this is a very capable system

Alex Lindsay (00:31:05):
System. Very solid. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:06):
And then everyone fast.

Andy Ihnatko (00:31:08):
Yeah. They, they were, they were explicit saying faster than the fastest competitive windows tablet up to two times faster than the fastest windows laptop in its price range. So yeah, that's where they're going for.

Leo Laporte (00:31:19):
It also is a flex on Apple Silicon now M one everywhere. Right. It's and so this is, what's really gonna be interesting is just consistent improvement in processors.

Alex Lindsay (00:31:33):
Well, consistent and very leaps and bounds leaps. And that's this yeah. With everything they're just, they're, they're starting to really flex, you know, and, and again, we saw this when the M one came like when, when, when they announced that they were gonna go, they were gonna have a new chip. A lot of us were like, we should buy a bunch of Intel machines right before they screwed this up for the next year or two. And the first M one came out and nobody, I know like everyone was like, no more Intel, like we're not gonna buy anymore of this. Cause because it just, you could just see what was gonna happen. It was like when the M one came amount, I was like, if that's, if that's version one, this is gonna get really interesting. And then as we keep on seeing the, the level of performance change between updates and, you know, it's only been a year and a half, right. Since the first time we saw an M one it's, it's gonna be a really hard pace to keep up with, because again, because it's all integrated because they're not working with outside, you know, fo you know, they don't have to figure out how to get this chip to talk to that chip, or they don't have to deal with buses. They can design whatever they want really changes the, the, the playing field a lot.

Leo Laporte (00:32:32):
It's just exciting. That's what I, that's all I can say. So I'm gonna see if I can find the slides. I wish, I wonder if somebody has the slides, do you know? I have,

Andy Ihnatko (00:32:44):
I have

Leo Laporte (00:32:45):
'Em you have 'em, but that doesn't help me. Where did you get 'em?

Andy Ihnatko (00:32:48):
I just, I just spring grabbed them away.

Leo Laporte (00:32:50):
Yeah. You were smart. You were smart. So I'm gonna try to find the slides cuz that's, you know, unfortunately they moved so fast that you know, you, you, we, we seem to miss some of the the details and they actually skim over some of the details. Johnny John Turner comes out and says, well, you know, we have the M one, we have the M one pro we have the M one max what's next. And the slide I want is if I can find it is where he shows the dies of these processors. Let me see if I can Google it M one pro max ultra, because essentially what, you know, and then he says, and now introducing the M one ultra and the, basically the way they solve this problem is kind of how we thought, but maybe even a little bit better than we thought by dual core, but with their new

Andy Ihnatko (00:33:49):
Dual dies.

Leo Laporte (00:33:49):
Yeah. Dual dies. Yeah. Not dual core, but it is it's, multi-core still, but you actually, you got have 20 core and more, but yeah. Dual dies, but they Turner set it up by saying the problem in the past with multicore multidi architectures has been the communications. And so they've introduced something called the ultra fusion architecture, which has interprocess or bandwidth of 2.5 terror bites per second. Okay. Right on, right on, right on. If you take the, if you take the, the chart and I haven't been able to find it, but if you take the chart, you've got your M one and then it gets a little fatter with the N one pro and then it gets a little fatter with the M one ultra, then a suddenly or M one max, and you go to the ultra, it's not getting fatter, it's getting taller. It's like a skyscraper they've, they've basically taken two M one maxes and stacked them one on top of the other. Very impressive.

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:50):
Yeah. But they're, but they're making a real, I, I love the little, the little smirk as they said, well, it's the M one has always had a feature that we've been keeping secret until now. Yes. And it really, and it's this architect is this technology that love isn't to basically bridge two dyes without having the they're they're, they're making, they're making the point that it isn't as simple as saying, oh, we'll just, we'll just have two, two, basically two dyes on the, on the, on the same module. But no, no, no. When you, when you try to connect them together, the system sees them as two CPU two different CPU units. And they're saying that developers have to able to program for that. And basically it fakes it it to, to all software, including the OS. It thinks that it's one big CPU. And they're also talking about how quickly it, it communicates with each other. So that's, that was a very, very technical and very, very impressive hunk.

Alex Lindsay (00:35:36):
I think for the, for the developers who listened to Apple during WWDC and started programming to metal a while ago, Apple kept on saying, you really, when they released metal, they were like, you really want to write to the stock writing directly to the, to the hardware. You know, you really want to use metal and now you can see why, because it just, for them, this is, this is seamless for the, the, the developers that have written a lot of hard code to the, to the metal not to metal, but to the to the hardware, they're having a lot of trouble getting, you know, basically underwriting everything to get it to, to work.

Leo Laporte (00:36:08):
So he did kind of mention that this doesn't require any specialized programming chops.

Alex Lindsay (00:36:13):
If you wrote to metal, if

Leo Laporte (00:36:14):
You wrote to metal. Right, right, right. But that's really where Apple. And they even said that they said, look the tight integration between Mac OS and our hardware makes a big difference. And I think that's true that Mac OS the hardware is written for Mac OS or designed for Mac OS. It's a swift machine. Here's John Syracuse's post. He tweeted this, the dyes, he calls them the J C dies building blocks for the pro Mac S O CS. And that actually is a, is a good as you could see, a good there's the M one M one pro M one max, and then two of them side by side to make the J two C die, which is basically some somebody suggested you the M one max Quadra or M one max duo. But it's really the M one max one, one ultra, which I

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:03):
Lost also, there's some bad mojo with the, with that terminology that they don't want do

Leo Laporte (00:37:08):
Duo and Quadra. Yeah. You probably don't want to go with

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:09):
That. Yeah. But by the way, I just posted all the, the, the four feature quilts on my TWiTtter. Thank

Leo Laporte (00:37:14):
You. The feature quilts, is that what you call those?

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:17):
That's what I, that's what I've always called them.

Leo Laporte (00:37:18):
I love it. They're feature quilts. Good. Thank you for doing that. I appreciate it. And for everybody who follows Andy on TWiTtter, that's

Alex Lindsay (00:37:26):
It. Someone should make a quilt.

Leo Laporte (00:37:29):
That's

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:31):
I be Etsy. Etsy challenge. Extended. Yeah. Yes. What a good

Leo Laporte (00:37:36):
Idea. Oh, look at this. Thank you, Andy. That it's fantastic. So let's see. So they announced, okay. We now have the ultra, so now we're going, oh, interesting. What do you do with that? And insane. You give it

Alex Lindsay (00:37:52):
All the Ram. You give

Leo Laporte (00:37:53):
It all the Ram. Instead of announcing a mini, they announced something called the max studio. It's in interesting. The rumor mill started talking about a Mac studio, John mark Ruman started tweeting it yesterday. And I think what happens, I've expected this as you get closer to the event, hundreds of people are involved in this production. Right? Many outside contractors. Somebody's gonna say something.

Andy Ihnatko (00:38:19):
Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:38:21):
Yeah. It's it's I think they should. They could have called it the extruded mini.

Leo Laporte (00:38:24):
Yeah. It looks like a little bit of a fatso. It's a mini.

Alex Lindsay (00:38:27):
And then we just hit extruded.

Leo Laporte (00:38:29):
It's a little fatso, but the, so what I took away from this is no iMac pro you don't need an iMac pro what a, wouldn't it be better? And I've thought this for a while, if you had a standalone monitor and a standalone Mac mini ish Mac that you could then stack. And in fact, the new stand for the monitor has a little table for you to put your fatso.

Alex Lindsay (00:38:55):
Well, and the thing is, this is my ti the timing for this is perfect for me, because I was just like, my, my iMac that I'm, that I'm talking into right now is 2017. I've been waiting for like, yes. You know, every time I go, is it time to get a new iMac? And I, and about two months ago, I was like, I'm not getting a new iMac. I was waiting for this Mac mini me too. What I thought was gonna be Mac mini, cuz I was like, because I wanna be able to route different things into this, into this monitor. I wanna be able to do whatever I want. I want, want

Leo Laporte (00:39:18):
To be in, want my own display.

Alex Lindsay (00:39:19):
Yeah. And I wanna put my computer somewhere else.

Leo Laporte (00:39:21):
Yeah, no, I, I had exactly that, that thought. And that's the other thing, if you don't like the fatso, you don't have to put it under the monitor. You could great. You could put it somewhere else. So let's let's start talking about the Mac studio. I think this is, there's not. So just before we do, though, I think it's fair to say there will not be a high end Mac mini. That's what this is by another name. There will not be an iMac pro you spent $5,000 Alex, as did I, at least for that iMac pro that 2017 iMac pro and every respect you combine this, even the low end Mac studio with a new studio monitor, you're gonna spend 500 bucks less, you know, at least, and get something that's more, more than TWiTce as fast. So there's no question. This is a more than ample replacement for the mini. I mean the Ima

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:17):
Pro.

Alex Lindsay (00:40:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:20):
I'll see. You have to wonder why someone who wants this kind of performance would want an all in one to begin with that, that thing. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:40:27):
That's why the Mon pro was a little bit of a weird outlier.

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:30):
Yeah. I, I always, I always thought that I, I never got confirmation on this even like off the record, but I always thought that this would was a Des that the iMac pro was always a desperation move that this is that the, the that the, the, the, the, the, the Quaker roads box cylinder tower Mac pro was laid such an egg with such a dud. They had to get something out there that was going to give customers, creators the performance that they needed and not encourage them to, to, to, to jump ship and go off to, to windows. Because the, the idea of the idea of like Apple designing, something that has two immense fans, immense blowers, just putting this huge hump on the back of an iMac. That's not the sort of thing that they would be that they would, they would've wanted to do if their previous Mac pro had been a se. So I don't it's. Whereas when you take a look at an all in one M one Mac that's super iMac, that's super, super powerful, but it's slim comes in lots of cool colors. It's a thing that you buy for all the desktops on, in your office for the people who don't necessarily need high performance. It's cool. It's fun. You like, it that's exactly what an IMEX should be. And what's, I think that's what it's always supposed to be.

Leo Laporte (00:41:39):
They did an interesting thing, you know with these new chips, a lot of performance cores, and a only a couple of efficiency cores, it became very clear when they started talking about out this, that what they're going to do here is make a plugin computer. And, and so you have I wrote it down 16 performance cores in the 20 core CPU and four efficiency course. There's not a lot of efficiency course. This is not the half and half you see on an, because this is a plugin device. And as a result, the other thing they immediately focused on and I had kind of shades of Johnny ive here is the holes. The first thing I saw, I thought, oh my God, is this a cheese grater? Cuz they show the holes on the bottom. And suddenly we see when we see the model that there is a lot of cooling. In fact, half of the fat boy, the top half is fans.

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:37):
Yep. Yeah. And they, they, they felt the need to make sure they say that we think that even at the highest level performance, you'll barely be able to hear it. And so you can hear that they're a little bit something, they, they, they can, they, they get a pass for delivering performance and not, not carrying that. This thing is absolutely deadly Panther in the jump and gold, quiet. But you see, you tell they're a little, oh, we wish this were quiet. This we were this required, but yeah, they, they, they made a big, I think that also they're occurring from previous problems that they were having selling high performance machines with that had faulty cooling and they're they wanted to make it really, really, really, really certain that look how big our fans are. Look how much we thought about the, the flow of air through this thing about how it not only it's shaped and it's, it's shaped and it's dis distinctive I wonder how that will affect. I wonder if it still works that way, if you have it on its side. Cuz I think that a lot of people are not gonna pay attention to like the clear design cues that says that this is supposed to be on its base. A lot of people gonna try to turn it on its side. A wonder

Leo Laporte (00:43:34):
If that's under my desk, I don't want to even put it underneath the monitor. So here's the thank you to evil IRC in our chat room who found this, this is actually from the Apple store or the Apple page describing it. This is the, these are the stacked yeah. Process that really tells you that's that's a, you said use the word and I think it's appropriate Alex, a flex. That is a Ely it's you want two of them? Sure.

Alex Lindsay (00:43:57):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and the way that they're putting them together, again, this is, this was impossible with Intel. So what they're doing now is able, they're able to, they're kind of unleashed and, and the thing that has gotta be scare scary to a lot, everybody else is that you have a company with the money to do anything when they're unleashed and now they're unleashed, you know? And so, so this is, you know, this is, this is the elephant in the room. This is the angry elephant. That's three times bigger than you expected and runs like a cheetah, you know, like, you know, and, and, and that's a, that's a scary place to be if you're

Leo Laporte (00:44:25):
In industry has, I mean, I imagine Intel's been working on their interconnects, right. They, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:44:29):
But it's the problem is, is that, how do you do this when the problem is, is that you need control of the whole board. Yeah. Like this is, this is what Apple can do. And that's why it's so hard for the rest of the industry. You can get the chips to be a little bit faster and so on and so forth, but can you control the entire IO to, to take advantage of it?

Leo Laporte (00:44:49):
So the very first product they talked about running on these new ultra chips is the Al the M one, I'm sorry, the studio, the max studio with the M one max

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:08):
F one max and yeah, you get the 2000, the two cheap one is, is the M one max, the expensive one has the M one ultra. And it's a different price difference of what double $2,000 starting price in the M one max and I think 4,000 on the M one ultra I

Leo Laporte (00:45:23):
Actually, which maybe talking Lisa down a couple of days ago, I said, they're probably gonna announce a mini. It may not have a max in it. It may just be a pro in it. I was exactly wrong. Yeah. This is this. So the one with the max is actually in a way the mini that you thought you were gonna get. Right, right. The higher end of that

Alex Lindsay (00:45:44):
For a little bit more than I expected to spend.

Leo Laporte (00:45:46):
Yeah. But 2000 is what I paid for my base model MacBook pro 14 inch with one pro. So you're getting more in some ways, right. You're getting a lot of power, a lot of horsepower, 64 gigs of unified memory. That, by the way, well, we're gonna get to the graphics card conversation, but put a pin in that unified memory number 128 gigs of unified memory on the M one ultra hundred gigabit gigabytes per second memory bandwidth on the max 800 gigabytes per second memory bandwidth on the ultra. And the SSDs are extremely fast on these. So this is a, this is a beast. This is a beast.

Andy Ihnatko (00:46:29):
Yeah. They also, they, so they, they led this off with, I think the right a line that I had to go back and make sure I, I noted correctly. So they, they basically led this off by saying the theme of this machine was performance connectivity, modularity. So they cover the performance with the CPUs, but they really delivered on connectivity. Given the, given that the complaints of course about the Mac mini were that it is essentially the MacBook air chip inside of Mac. Any, you can get two displays that's about it. The idea that you can have, like what five simultaneously supporting five displays. One thing I was, I was a little bit confused by was there's sometimes in the specs when they were talking, I got confused about, is there Fu are there, is, is there connectivity and features that are exclusive to the M one ultra because it has two separate dyes and therefore TWiTce the, TWiTce the pipes but it sort

Leo Laporte (00:47:17):
Of is the back has T4 four Thunderbolt, four ports. The front has us B C ports on the max and on the ultra, it has their TALT four. So there's a few little differences like that.

Andy Ihnatko (00:47:31):
Yeah. I'm, I'm looking, I'm looking at the tech specs where they have the, the two side by side and under video support. They don't break that into two different columns. So that says simultaneously supports up to five displays support for up to four pro display XDS over USBC and one display 4k over HDMI. That was

Leo Laporte (00:47:48):
The fact too where she said, and you can have a big TV. And of course that's for video editors who do want that display. But also the, their monitors. I was a little disappointed. So was Anthony Nielsen to hear only 60 Hertz? Not a higher refresh rate. Does that bother you, Alex does that matter? It's only fraud, gamers care,

Alex Lindsay (00:48:07):
Well, gamers care for now. And, and and I think that it is you know, a lot of us are paying a lot of attention to high frame rate. And so I think that for the most part, it's probably fine. I mean, most people not gonna use it that way, but you you're seeing most things going to 120. Yeah. Hertz. And so it,

Leo Laporte (00:48:24):
The PC cited and a lot, even in laptops this, I love so Apple as usual showed their weird graphs with no, no, no zero origin and no, you know, no, but on the website, they do have some benchmarks, which actually are great. So this is the CPU performance, and they're comparing a ultra max, the Mac pro with the 16 cor Zion and the 27 inch I 10 core I nine, I think that's the pro. And then you can click different things. So this is NASA's Tetris is 5.3 times faster Houdini, but you see these graphs it looks by the way on Houdini, not much difference to the Mac pro with Zion and the Mac M one max Mac studio. But a big difference. 

Alex Lindsay (00:49:15):
And it just depends on how they're using the data. I mean, Houdini's a really com very complex. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:49:20):
What are they doing with Houdini? Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:49:22):
Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:49:23):
Photoshop some big performance improvements there. Vector works. I think a lot of Mac folks might want to know how affinity performs it, because it's written for probably in swift for the Mac is very much tuned to it. There isn't a huge difference in the ultra and the max there,

Andy Ihnatko (00:49:45):
But you notice that most of the time, at least during the during the presentation, when they were comparing how much faster the new was to the old, they were comparing max based. But the studios that were based on max to the fastest iMac pro they're comparing the ultra to the fastest Mac pro. Isn't that

Leo Laporte (00:50:02):
Interesting.

Andy Ihnatko (00:50:02):
So, so they're clear. Yes. So they're clearly making a difference between people who are gonna spend an extra $2,000. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:50:08):
So they're, I mean look, I own I, a significant portion of the Intel lineup. Is there any reason to keep any of that Alex?

Alex Lindsay (00:50:19):
Well, the, it depends on what you're using. I mean, I think that for, I mean, you, you can, I use computers until they die, so there's always things to do with them. You know, I have this you know, this telestrator is running on like a 2012 Mac mini. Yeah. You know, so yeah, it's fine. That's what it needs to do. Yeah. But, but that's all it needs to do, you know? And so so I think that there's, I have plenty of Mac minis and laptops that I keep on using for other things sometimes just to run old operating systems so that I can still get the things. So, so I think that those things are, I think that I'm glad that I switched to the M one you know, when it came out so that we bought a lot of those.

Leo Laporte (00:50:54):
Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Actually I said, half fans, it looks like it's a little more like two thirds fan. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:51:00):
Yeah. It's, it's, it's pretty exciting. I mean, it's, it's is by the way, exactly the same footprint eyes as the Mac mini. So it really is an extruded Mac mini you it's, and

Leo Laporte (00:51:11):
It's quite TWiTce as tall. It's not, we actually put two Mac minis together to, to simulate it. It's not quite that tall,

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:17):
Tall 3.3 0.7 inches tall. Yeah. 7.7 inches square.

Leo Laporte (00:51:21):
It's you know, as with any new footprint, it's gonna look a little weird at first and you'll get used to it. Some people have compared it to the cube in some ways maybe

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:31):
We

Alex Lindsay (00:51:31):
Said that we said that during office hours or after hours.

Leo Laporte (00:51:33):
Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:34):
Yeah. That this, I, I, I wonder if that's another sign of the difference between that we're in definitely a, a new post Johnny ive, age of Apple where they didn't even consider, let's just re let's just re fab the, the case and make it a little bit more interesting. Put the, put a grill in the front, put some perforations, do whatever. They just, simply, as Alex said, op, open up the, open up the CAD app, extrude another two inches, boom, ship it exactly. Which is, which is, which is great. Like ship it it's efficient. All they, they, they, they looks like all they did was say, here's how much room we're gonna need for the fans. Add more room for the fans, put some holes in the front. Well, that's, that's, that's another thing for understanding that people, people who are going to be using SD cards might want to actually insert them into the machine. Let's not have them around the back of a 27 N 27. That's IMEC display. It's like, no, let, this is we're, we're intending for people to actually use

Leo Laporte (00:52:28):
The, I always forget there's an SD card slot on my IAC pro always. But it's right there on the front where it belongs along with two USBC type ports, either Thunderball for USBC, depending on the model you can

Alex Lindsay (00:52:41):
Get. And some of the, and some of the other things that, you know, like the O WC makes those little base that has an oh. And it'll fit on

Leo Laporte (00:52:46):
That.

Alex Lindsay (00:52:47):
Yeah. It'll just sit theoretically. I mean, I don't know if messes up the, the airflow, but it, it shouldn't cuz it's designed to work with the Mac mini too. You

Leo Laporte (00:52:53):
Know what this does, by the way, all those stupid renders you might have seen with plexiglass and stuff. Yeah. No Uhuh, no Uhuh. Yep. That's not what we did. You were wrong, you guys were wrong. Those were all made up. 

Alex Lindsay (00:53:06):
I remember when they're shook this, like when you think about how good Apple is that keeping it a secret, this was done, you know, this probably done a year ago, maybe two years ago, you know, like it, it, you know, because, because it, you know, to have it shipping means that millions have already been made, you know, so it's not, you know, it's it's and that had to be fabbed that had to be, you know, like everything. So it's, it's a, you know, at least six months, probably a year and a half ago is when they thought of this, when they finished the design, here's

Leo Laporte (00:53:31):
The cooling video that they have on the on the website. So it draws in from below. And then the fans have a kind of a little L turn on 'em and so it's it's pulling it up from below and then pushing it out the back. Yeah. Where there is a big grid on the back.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:48):
And by the way, that size, go ahead,

Andy Ihnatko (00:53:51):
Go ahead. But with, with fans, this's powerful. I'm wondering how hard it's gonna be to open that up and clean those fans cuz that's, that's gonna be a dust man.

Leo Laporte (00:53:59):
Lot of, lot of stuff and that,

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:00):
And that, and that's, that's periodic maintenance that you have to do. Yeah. If you're, unless you're living in a clean room. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:54:04):
Excuse access. Those are blowers, not fans. Okay. Blowers.

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:08):
Oh,

Alex Lindsay (00:54:08):
Well, and, and by the way, the size of those greatly affects the, the, the amount of sound they make. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:54:15):
The, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:16):
You want by making em a lot bigger. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be a lot, lot wider. They,

Leo Laporte (00:54:19):
They can operate as slower RPM. I, I wonder if Johnny I've what he would say about the grid, the grill, it's not it ain't a cheese grater. It does look like though there's some interesting stuff done below with the curves and the geometry of that.

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:37):
It's it's, it's okay to, you know, it's okay to have a boring aluminum around corner box. Again, we're not, again, we, we we've seen the, we've seen the the, the Quaker road box machine that looked beautiful as, as a static object that you don't have to actually run any software on. It was a lovely thing to regard academically. But the thing is that, that, that impresses you for three days. And then you're wondering why the thing can't cool. It is keep is is thermally fr throtling because you don't have, you need it to have active, cooling and lost the argument about how, if we have an actual fan. Oh no, no. The fan would actually cause noise and we can't have noise here. We, I, I love the idea of Apple returning to, we can do stylish, but we will all, we're not gonna make, we're not gonna make that get in the way of having a successful product that people are gonna get five or six years of happy use out of.

Leo Laporte (00:55:25):
Are you sad, Alex know, mag safe. It's got the Mickey mouse plugin

Alex Lindsay (00:55:29):
Connection. Don't care about it. Not, not for the Mac mini. I mean, I don't want a mag safe actually for Mac mini because I don't want to be pulling cables around and having it pop out right. For the laptop. When I have a battery to back it ups, I, I, I want a Mac safe, but for this, I would want plug in. I'm a little, I'm the, I mean the Mickey mouse we call it the Mickey mouse connector. Yeah. I is it's I like another connector I have to manage, cuz it's really nice when it's a figure eight or a C 13. So

Leo Laporte (00:55:54):
This is a non-standard 

Alex Lindsay (00:55:56):
It's not non non-standard, but it may, well, it depends. Depends on the, on the scale of it. It's just not as you don't have as many of 'em laying around, so well it gives it a ground. Yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (00:56:05):
The, is

Alex Lindsay (00:56:05):
That,

Leo Laporte (00:56:05):
Is that why, okay. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:56:07):
Yeah. You get, if you, with the one that the Mac mini currently has in the Apple TV, which are both the same or are a standard, I think they're C seven S and those C seven S are, are they don't carry a ground with them, so you can feel it sometimes, you know, if you're connected to it. But if you're ground, if you become the ground but the this one, yeah, adding the ground is gonna be more

Leo Laporte (00:56:28):
Still though, a power brick, right. The power supply's not inside this or is it,

Alex Lindsay (00:56:32):
It is Connectors

Andy Ihnatko (00:56:35):
Internal power supply.

Leo Laporte (00:56:36):
Yeah. That's interesting. That seems like a, a mistake. You're bringing a lot of heat back into the case.

Alex Lindsay (00:56:42):
Yeah. But it's a lot better. I mean, power, power supply sitting outside, or, you know, that's much harder to replace. Yeah. You know, when you need, when, when something goes wrong and it's, it's actually not harder to replace if you burn it up, but it's, but it's harder to replace, you know, this one that I think that, that, that, that plug is gonna be the standard plug that we can, that can go buy the hardware store.

Leo Laporte (00:57:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on the back very nice as one hoped selection of ports, including four Thunderbolt, four ports 10 gigabit ethernet. Is that enough for you, Alex?

Alex Lindsay (00:57:18):
I, I think it's, there's never, it's never enough.

Leo Laporte (00:57:22):
So it's enough for me.

Alex Lindsay (00:57:24):
I will fill that up pretty within the first two days. You know, the, the, the advantage though, is that with, because those are all thunderbolts on the back, you know, of course I can Thunderbolt into something else. That'll expand one even further so

Leo Laporte (00:57:35):
I can connect. I didn't. So I, for instance, didn't buy I bought a terabyte hard drive, not a four terabyte or even eight, me too. Because I'll be putting extra stuff on there anyway. Two S B a ports, which is nice to have. I

Alex Lindsay (00:57:49):
Appreciate, it's really nice to have some, you know, like, it's, it's nice to have a couple

Leo Laporte (00:57:52):
Of, there's still some legacy, you know, you got a thumb drive and stuff. Yeah. HTMI, which is nice. Yeah. They mentioned that those four type C ports can drive display port. But the H DMI is so that's pretty flexible, I guess. Yeah. 

Alex Lindsay (00:58:08):
Yeah, no, no, it's, it's, it's great to have an HT I cable. I mean, it's, it would be one of the BCS, it'd be one of the thunder builder BCS for you, if it wasn't there. And so, right. And it's dedicated, you know, that it's there, you don't need an adapter cause you're gonna need to unplug it into something. Right. 

Leo Laporte (00:58:23):
Yeah. You don't need an adapter. I mean, you got six type C ports on this thing, so there's plenty of places. And even then you may have, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm probably gonna have a dock for extra

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:35):
God. This is, this is, this is definitely like Scrooge on Christmas morning versus Scrooge on Christmas Eve. That's like,

Leo Laporte (00:58:42):
They,

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:43):
They they've seen the light. See everybody gets, oh no, you don't have to use up one of the thunder bowl ports for, for HTMI. Why don't we give you an extra one it's and especially on a, on a $4,000 machine where they could say, well, look, I mean, not that we're gonna, not that we don't think that money is money, but Hey, buy a Cal digit box for 300 bucks and we'll give you one extra ports for that kind of stuff. We're just gonna give you thunder bowl and you can do whatever you want with each one of them. Right. I was so please, that, that that's so not what I would've expected from Apple four years ago, five years ago.

Leo Laporte (00:59:12):
Yeah. I'm back ordered on the Cal digit, but that's exactly what you'd want that Thunderbolt for Cal digit to the SD XC is the faster SD card, right? That's you,

Alex Lindsay (00:59:23):
You, you missed the, the headphone Jack.

Leo Laporte (00:59:25):
Oh, I didn't. I left out the most important.

Alex Lindsay (00:59:27):
It was funny. We, we on office hours, we, cause we were, you know, everyone was watching together. It's like 150 people watching in zoom and, and, and we all laughed about it. Cause the way they, they built up the head, I've never seen anyone build up a he phone, Jack like that, the professional right. Audio, you know, you

Leo Laporte (00:59:41):
Could drive headphones for,

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:42):
For high impedance

Leo Laporte (00:59:43):
Head four stereo.

Alex Lindsay (00:59:46):
Exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:59:46):
Does it too. High impedance is not a high impedance head

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:49):
Said they said high Imped imp

Leo Laporte (00:59:51):
They got a nice lamp amp in there. Yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:59:54):
Sure. It I've never seen a headphone Jack built up so heavily the, not one,

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:01):
But, but also do, do

Leo Laporte (01:00:03):
You do, you'll be on singled out here. I don't understand why it's on the back to be honest.

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:06):
Okay. But, but, but I wanna get back to feeling singled out for like abuse here that no, no, Andy, we couldn't put one on the, on your iPad, on your iPad. We couldn't put one, one your phone. We decided that 

Leo Laporte (01:00:20):
So guess the reason it's on the back is cuz most people will be driving, powered speakers with it and that's, I mean, that's what I will be doing, I guess. Yeah. But it's weird. Anyway,

Alex Lindsay (01:00:30):
That's the weird part. That's a little weird. That's all I'm

Leo Laporte (01:00:32):
Saying. They could have put an optical port

Alex Lindsay (01:00:33):
On there on the front. Would've been

Leo Laporte (01:00:34):
Nice. Yeah, exactly. On the front. Would've been nice optical on the back. Okay. Let's be, we're being nitpicky at this point.

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:39):
Well, no, but yeah. And, and also Thunderball if you want to, if you want that kind of ex that's right. Or if you want something like that, plug it in that's right.

Leo Laporte (01:00:46):
You got it's. Yeah. But well, even the S B AAS, that's probably a good use use for that. Yeah. Okay. Let's take another break. I really do want to talk about power, you know, and particularly about PE cuz that's, if there's one area where professionals are gonna say, but I need Kuda cores, you know, it's gonna be in the GPU. So let's, we'll talk a little bit about that in just a second. Andy Ihnatko. And Mr. Alex, Lindsay are with us. Rene is on assignment. He'll be back. Check

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:24):
On, check, check his Instagram to see if he's on a plane. So yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:01:28):
Yeah. That's, I'm curious by the way, here from scooter X, the actual quote, the 3.5 millimeter headphone Jack in the MacBook. Oh no, that's the MacBook pro. Oh, you gave me the MacBook pro DC load detection at adaptive voltage output. Your Mac can detect the impedance of the connected device. Hmm. Well I guess that's, I guess that's also gonna be be something like that in the Mac studio. It's gonna be at least that good. Our show today brought to you by better help. Yeah. Relationships take work. Yeah. A lot of us will drop anything to go help someone we care about. Right. We'll go out of our way, treat other people well. But how often do you treat yourself that well, you deserve to be happy this month better help. Online therapy wants to remind you to take care of your most important relationship.

Leo Laporte (01:02:22):
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Leo Laporte (01:03:20):
They'll it's not CRI, I want to be clear. It's not crisis therapy but, but you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. You certainly don't have to suffer give it a try, see why over 2 million people now have used better help. Online therapy really is a great solution bringing therapy to where you are and they make it very easy. By the way, to change therapists, to find a therapist, that's right for you, you say, why would I wanna ch well, you know, every therapist is different and and you should have somebody that fits your style. Your personality is gonna work with you the way you want to. That's the other thing they do a lot of D modalities really it's the best way. Why limit yourself to the, the therapists that are within, you know, driving distance of your house when you can have therapists all over the country one of whom is exactly right for you.

Leo Laporte (01:04:14):
I'm a big fan for this. They make it so easy, better help.com/MacBreak, E T T E R H E L P better help is better. And if they're there to help better help and MacBreak Weekly listeners get 10% off their first month, when you go to better help.com/MacBreak, please do that. They do have couples therapy, by the way, if you wanna, if you wanna work on your relationship, can, I don't wanna imply that you can, you can do that. You work on yourself or your relationship. They also have a teen therapist. I, you know, especially because we've been in quarantine for two years, it's been really hard on kids, really hard on kids. You know, high school is not the same as we grew up with. And I think a lot of teens are struggling a little bit. This is a great way in a kind of non-intrusive way that they're very, they'll be comfortable with.

Leo Laporte (01:05:07):
They live on the phone, right. To get some support for your teen. So think about it for that as well, better help.com/MacBreak 10% off for your first month. Really happy to have these guys on our on our network, cuz it's a very, very, very important thing. Alright. We haven't even gotten to the display yet. We'll get to the display in a second, but I do wanna talk about G because you know, they spent a lot of time talking about how great these GPS are compared even the, to the radiance that they put in the top of the line, Mac pros notice. There was no Envidia mention at all. Yep. And Alex, you're the, you know, I always go to you to ask you about this because you're the pro user, you're the high end. You, you understand what pros want and of course you had 150 people in office hours watching this together. What was the reaction? What is the feeling about the GPU

Alex Lindsay (01:06:05):
People? Pretty excited. Yeah. To say at least, you know, I think that, so the not everything is the GPU. A lot of it is the processing, the number of processors and how they handle it and how they, whether they can do it in parallel and, and so on and so forth. But on the other side of that Ram is a big deal. And here's why Ram is a big deal is because it means you can hold larger texture maps and you can hold larger models in the Ram while you're processing. So by having more, more memory available to the GPU, it means that those, you have actually much larger texture maps. That, that means that everything looks higher resolution than it did before. So it may not, again, it may not be able to process as fast sometimes, so that might affect handle effects and so on and so forth, but the amount of, of raw amount of resources.

Alex Lindsay (01:06:54):
So I can have 4k texture maps instead of two K texture maps or eight K texture maps instead of 4k, you know, those kinds of things, I can start throwing much, much larger imagery and much, much larger models. It also means I can do things like oversampling. So oversampling is, I know you need a 4k image, but I'm gonna render a 16 K image. And then I'm gonna bring it back down to four. And what that does is a, it handles all the little alias scene, all the little jagged edges along the edge of the model. And so those are the kind of things that you can do when you have a lot of Ram,

Leo Laporte (01:07:27):
128 gigs on the ultra. Boom. I don't think, I mean, that's only the very highest end GPUs would have anything near that kind of,

Alex Lindsay (01:07:35):
I've never seen a GPU with that much Ram. Okay. I think it's 48. I think 40 gigs the most. Right. But it's different. Again, this is a different architecture because you now have rarely do both the GPU and the CPU need all that Ram at one time, it's usually it's oftentimes left kind of latent. So being able to share the, the shared memory architecture is incredibly important in this process.

Leo Laporte (01:07:57):
800 gigabytes per second memory band with, is that a good number?

Alex Lindsay (01:08:02):
It's fast. I don't actually, I don't have a reference point for that. I it's really hot. I, I, I don't, I don't know what the, I don't know what my current one is. I don't know what those ones are. That's not, that's not a number I know. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:08:14):
60 up to 64 core GPU. That's a lot, but no, they're not Kuda cores. You don't get Ray hardware, Ray tracing. There are people who need that kind of stuff. Right. And you don't get unreal engines,

Speaker 7 (01:08:27):
Like not, not doing like, like the Ray tracing thing is cool, but it's not like,

Alex Lindsay (01:08:31):
You know, I didn't anyway, A big Shiner ship. I did a big shiny ship for a, for a space film without waitress, without S I

Leo Laporte (01:08:39):
Kinda like. Yeah, but that was a long time. It,

Alex Lindsay (01:08:43):
It looks great, but what's more interesting is when, when they start saying we can handle global illumination or physically based rendering in real time or something like that, now you have, my attention tracing is, is, is hard. And I'm glad that able to do it, but it's the, it's the global illumination stuff that is gonna require a lot of Ram, right. Know, to figure out. So,

Leo Laporte (01:09:03):
And you can do Ray tracing and software. And in fact, somebody's saying dwindle saying his blender cycle rendered does a pretty good job on the M one max, but it's still faster on my 2080 ti maybe, but now let's see with the ultra.

Alex Lindsay (01:09:16):
And it'll be interesting. I mean, I'm less, I'm less worried about real time and more cuz you can get, there's not many games or even anything real time that really takes advantage of most of these, most of this hardware, what I'm really interested in, see how does cinema 4d, right. You know, do this, how does motion handle this? How does you know those types of things, you know, handle the processors there, there.

Leo Laporte (01:09:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's sad to say, but it's the case that Mac is not a gaming platform and

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:44):
Yeah. I mean, there's, it's, it's, it's a nice footnote to talk about, but the thing is anybody who wants casual gamers have their needs well covered by other Apple products. People who are very, very serious gamers who are, are gonna be bemoan. The fact that Ooh, 60 Herz, that's not a, that's a, that's a terrible limit. They're all, they're, they're not gonna be interested in max to begin with for reasons that go beyond having an M one Mo and ultra processor in there. So I don't think that's a, that's a big deal. I, I think that what they're, I I'm just saying. I think, I think that the, the needs for the studio were, are that really huge rich vein of customers between entry level, basic productivity, max, and super, super graphic chunking number chunking Mac pros. We're talking about like the people who are creating videos on YouTube make, who have their own studio look producing digital videos who need that kind of power, but don't necessarily need to spend need the kind of power they need to spend $6,000 for it. And I think that this is where they've, they've aimed these two processors and these, the versions of these studio.

Alex Lindsay (01:10:51):
And there's a Apple could become a big player in real time games because I think that there's a real blind spot in the gaming C, which is, they don't really have a broadcast solution. They have a, a solution that gamers like to watch and they can fill the stadium once every once in a while with gamers. But they're, they're not really hitting the mark on building a truly broadcast game. And until someone does that, Apple, Apple could, you know, step into that market pretty hard, you know, and that's a, you know, an integrated game that scales to all the way down to your iPhone and, and Apple TV and all the way up to a Mac pro and broadcasts and is able to broadcast. Then you throw a $10 million pot into it for the winner. Things get real interest interesting, real quick, you know, like, you know, and that's the, and that, so Apple could I'd love bet if they got yeah, but they have to backfill all the hardware first. So I think that the, that this could be something they did in a year or two after they have all of this stuff rolled out.

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:45):
Yeah. I, I think that worth looking at, I think they gave us a, a very clear map today of where their interests are and that kind of content, they they, we did gloss over the Apple TV plus section, cause it was meant to be, cause

Alex Lindsay (01:11:57):
We were yaw gloss over

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:59):
Well, well also we're cause, but, but also one thing that really, really struck me was that they didn't closed. Yes, yes, yes. But the, well, if your eyes were open and you were taking notes, like I was like we were used to oh look, how look, how popular Ted lasso is Ted lasso, Ted lasso, Ted lasso, whatever the lowest latest hit is. They really, really, I, I, I, I was, I was prepared to simply, oh, great. That I, I, in this section I've got of this montage of what they're doing with Apple TV content. I get to spend the next, I, I, I didn't think that I I'd have time to move this streaming window to this other display. Now I have time to don't don't take notes, but man, they really did a good job of cutting together a montage of content that shows this is not just, Hey look, we, we hired some people who used to be on friends to do like a at Andy's to do a, a Sorkin style TV drama.

Andy Ihnatko (01:12:48):
It's like, no, they said we here's the children's program. Here are the people we hired away from Pixar here are super, super high. I named actors that we have in serious dramas. Here are comedies that we're doing here are they really are flexing the idea that they're creating themselves as a real studio. And it, it demonstrates that if they wanted to be a, I think that if they wanted to be a game studio like that, they certainly could be doing that. But they apparent, I don't think that they want to, they're putting their money exactly where they want to go. And as far as graphics performance, I think that they're also saying that we are, we feel that it's most important to we, we wanna make sure the content creators with our desktops have the tools. They need to create the content. That's gonna be us. That's gonna be targeted at our devices. But I think that the future of the company is more leading toward making sure that your handheld device has enough power to run this content. Your wearable, future wearable device has enough CPU, GPU power to run this sort of stuff. I, I think that they made a lot of their intentions known just below the surface of most of the announcements they made today.

Alex Lindsay (01:13:52):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:13:55):
But before, before we move on, can I, can I just mention one question that I still had? Like I said, when they introduced the, the section for the studio, they were mentioning, here's what we wanted to accomplish performance, connectivity, modularity. So we performance and connectivity are obvious. I'm trying to, I'm still trying to work out what they meant by modularity. And I I'm hoping that they meant it every time I think about, well, maybe they meant that you can hook up external displays to it, but that's more like a connectivity thing. Well, they,

Alex Lindsay (01:14:22):
They Jack nicely,

Andy Ihnatko (01:14:24):
They, they, they do, they, you can they're, they're, they're, they're like GPU Legos. Exactly. I, I hope, I hope that I, that, that means that, I mean, this is a lost cause, but I hope that that means that it is possible to take this thing apart and service it routinely without having to basically do a well, oh, yeahm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Your fan is making all that noise. We can give you a brand new one for $1,800. Cause I'm afraid. I'm afraid this is all built on this same. This is all the, we all, we 3d printed the, the, the fans, the motors, the, the power supply, the CPU, the GPU, the memory all out of one block of stuff. So we can't do any repairs that are any more than sending you a new one.

Alex Lindsay (01:15:02):
Yeah. The, the, the one thing that I, I did notice when it comes to modularity, as we were talking about that is that they it, oh, no, it's just too tall to be a two U unit. That's so sad.

Leo Laporte (01:15:17):
Oh, that's interesting. Was like, so you wanted a wrap hit

Alex Lindsay (01:15:21):
It. Right. And then I was like,

Leo Laporte (01:15:23):
I thought it would be, yeah,

Alex Lindsay (01:15:24):
No, it's, it's literally by two, by two tens of an inch.

Leo Laporte (01:15:28):
Well maybe you can shave it down or something

Alex Lindsay (01:15:31):
Apples, like what is to you? And I'm more like, I don't think you understand.

Leo Laporte (01:15:35):
I thought that's why they had the air coming out the back.

Alex Lindsay (01:15:37):
I, I thought so too. I looked at, I was like, oh, they, they, they hit this right on. And then I looked at the one U cause I thought it was 1.9. That is the height of a one U but it's actually 1.7511. Yeah. So anyway, here we go. So sad.

Leo Laporte (01:15:56):
Yeah. Well, I

Alex Lindsay (01:15:58):
Did get,

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:58):
I love the fact that I went from, go ahead. I, I love the fact that I had no idea what two you meant. And then as soon as I heard like someone in the studio go, oh, like, oh boy, that that's, that's a really important thing.

Leo Laporte (01:16:09):
Whenever it was,

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:11):
They didn't hit it important.

Alex Lindsay (01:16:13):
We, you know, we have racks and these racks, how we rack all of our gear and everybody knows you build a rack boundable device in, in units of use. You don't build it some weird size. And, and the great thing about the Mac minis is they were all, they fit very comfortably into a one U so you just stack them all, you know, we had 'em racks of, I mean, literally racks of Mac minis sometimes. And, and and so you're, I was like, oh, this will be perfect. It'll be two. You, you can put two of 'em next to each other. And then I, and I thought it was three, for some reason in my head, it was 1.9, but it's 1.75 for every U. And and so that means it'll, you'll have to use three, a three U 

Leo Laporte (01:16:48):
We have all that gap above it, which I hate. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:16:51):
So

Leo Laporte (01:16:51):
Ugly. So ugly. So already, what do we get let's talk about, we bought already, the ship times are slipping. They did say you ordered today. You could get it on March 18th, not anymore. I was lucky because before Tim stopped talking, they opened up the store on the phone. John noticed that. So I ran in and I ordered the ultra for delivery on the 18th. So we'll do it unboxing on the 18th. I think it's on track and I, I, I didn't upgrade it much. Let's just quickly look at because you could easily get $10,000.

Alex Lindsay (01:17:30):
No, you can't. You can only get to like six or

Leo Laporte (01:17:32):
Seven. Oh shoot or 6,000

Alex Lindsay (01:17:34):
50, 5600.

Leo Laporte (01:17:35):
So I, the base model has a 20 core CPU and a 48 core GPU for a thousand dollars more. You can get just a little more GPU. Do you think who should do that? Alex. Anybody that's a

Alex Lindsay (01:17:47):
Lot. Ah, yeah. Yeah. When people who are doing yeah. If you're doing, doing heavy things that are, that are GPU heavy. Absolutely. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:17:53):
The base model, 64 gigs. I, I stuck with that for 800 bucks. You could go to 128 gigs. I know you will because you like more memory. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:18:02):
I didn't,

Leo Laporte (01:18:03):
You didn't 64 is a lot of unified memory.

Alex Lindsay (01:18:07):
I actually, I had some constraint. I, I had, I had, there

Leo Laporte (01:18:10):
Was a little so budgetary yeah, I just car Carli looking over your shoulder as you had it,

Alex Lindsay (01:18:15):
But I was

Leo Laporte (01:18:15):
Like, I don't now where you really can go crazy and get the price up is with storage. But the base model has more than this is the ultra, by the way. It's TWiTce as much as the max version of the studio, but the ultra has a tear terabyte, which is enough, I think for anybody you can easily go to two terabytes, another 400 bucks. That's reasonable, eight terabytes is another 2,200 bucks. So maybe you might not wanna do that. So what did you get? I, I, so what I got just to complete the thought is all of that with the one, just basically the base model. I don't think I ordered anything extra, no

Alex Lindsay (01:18:52):
Based model. I really wanted the ultra and I really ended up just getting the, I, I got the, I, I don't, you're

Leo Laporte (01:18:59):
Probably sensible. Yeah. Like

Alex Lindsay (01:19:00):
I, so I, I may get it eventually. I just like that. I I'm building my little, I'm rebuilding my studio. And I was like, if I spent all of that money on, on this, my studio will

Leo Laporte (01:19:08):
Be very, no, you very slowly. You were actually wise. I think that, I think the ultra is probably over certainly overpowered for me. I only got it. So we could talk about it, review it for Lisa and her home office, I got the, the max version

Alex Lindsay (01:19:20):
Of it. Yeah. And I got, I got the, I got the, I kind of got a pretty loaded max. I didn't put, get as much hard drive space, so I got one terabyte. Yeah. But I got, I kind of maxed the rest of, I got the 64 gigs and I got the, the slightly better processor. And I, I just felt like, I mean, I'm just, I don't do enough that I felt like I needed the, and I have to admit, I'm kind of wanna, now I now wanna see what the, I, I, I know that the max will get me. I went into this, I went into the keynote wanting to max. Right. Like that was what I yeah. Really wanted for what I needed. And I felt like, I don't even know if I do things that make the other one worth it yet. And I'm just, I'll buy one of those if it does, if something's gonna pay for it. I'll yeah. I'll buy it, but I'll need it right now. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:20:01):
So there are more processor choices for the studio with the max. You can even put an ultra processor in it, but if you want 128 gigs of Ram, you have to get the M M one M I almost said, MK, ultra the M one ultra version of the studio out of the box. But you can't, you can't, you know, get the full processor available if you didn't need all the Ram. Oh, wait a minute. Basically they do let you, you're just basically building now you're building an ultra.

Alex Lindsay (01:20:31):
Yeah. I mean, I, I, yeah, so I, I did, you know, you can build an ultra inside of this thing, but I went for 60 mine's by $2,800. And it was, I felt like I haven't, I think that's a, it was

Leo Laporte (01:20:39):
That's a lot. And I think you're gonna get a great computer that will I'm sure would be a better than your, I pro your me IPRO

Alex Lindsay (01:20:48):
Pro I have a 2017 iMac pro iMac. No, I actually have a 2017 iMac because the pro came out after I bought,

Leo Laporte (01:20:53):
Oh, it came out later. That's how

Alex Lindsay (01:20:54):
Old it is. Yeah. And so, and it still works great. You know, I'm gonna keep it, you know, for other things, but, but the, but I, I just really wanted to get something modular and I felt like I don't, again, I, I, I, I felt like I'd be overbuilding. If I, if I got, I usually buy the facet as you know, I usually kind of deck these things out, but I was like 6 6500 bucks or, or $5,500. I was like, mm, yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:17):
Yeah, yeah. Like, I, I gotta say, this is this fee. This is the, exactly the Mac that I've been waiting for for a number of years. I

Leo Laporte (01:21:22):
Agree. And

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:24):
So I, and my, my, my wallet, I, I, I had to upgrade so much hardware over the past, like 18 months that my wallet is still recovering. I'm gonna give it some time to I'm, I'm gonna give it some time to, you know, get its breath back, but middle of the year, end of the year. I'm. So looking forward to having, having one of the, the max versions of

Leo Laporte (01:21:41):
These ship dates are slipping. Now, the max is March 23rd and the ultra is as the Earlie least is April 13th. So

Alex Lindsay (01:21:49):
It's, and once I spec mine, mine was May 30th to

Leo Laporte (01:21:53):
April 6th. I'm actually glad I, I jumped in there, but 

Alex Lindsay (01:21:56):
I tried and it wasn't opening for me. It was like,

Leo Laporte (01:21:58):
I couldn't, it was on the phone.

Alex Lindsay (01:22:01):
I couldn't get in

Leo Laporte (01:22:02):
As often the case, the iOS max Apple store is often, sometimes faster. All right, we're gonna take a little in the other little break and then let's talk about the monitor, cuz there's some interesting things to say about this monitor it's Apple getting back into the, not the super high end pro monitor, but a regular monitor back to the days of cinemas pre practical. Yeah. Yeah. we'll talk about that in just a little bit Alex Lindsay's here, office hours, stock global. Did you record that? Watching the event? Cause boy, I'd like to see the comments.

Alex Lindsay (01:22:34):
We didn't, we didn't, it was, it was we, we don't record those after hours doesn't record, but we but I think we, by the end we were at a hundred and sorry I got something coming on. My yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:22:44):
Yeah. Cuz I would really, but of course I'm working, so I can't, I can't be in the office hours, but maybe next time we'll stream office hours and forget coming in and let you guys handle that. Cause I would love to hear what all those pros in office hours have to say as 

Alex Lindsay (01:22:59):
It was, you know, it is where is, it's a, it's a really, it's the geekiest water cooler in the world. Yeah. And so having 150 people who are geeky watching it together and talking about it and everything else now we, we, yeah. And so it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:23:13):
I honestly think that there is it it's while it's fun to watch, it's probably best not to do what I did and Alex did, but to wait a week or two, let the dust settle here. What possible negatives there are maybe even see some reviews. So we're not advocating that you do what about

Alex Lindsay (01:23:34):
Yeah, no,

Leo Laporte (01:23:35):
But it was

Alex Lindsay (01:23:35):
Just, it hit just the right spot for what I wanted. Yeah. You know, like the,

Leo Laporte (01:23:39):
And, and, and frankly I order that quickly cuz I, cuz we're trying to get review. We don't do review units from Apple. We try to buy 'em and we wanted to get 'em in as soon as possible. So we can talk at 'em talk about 'em and I'll let you know. But I, the last ship date I saw was a week from Friday. So we'll do it in boxing on a Friday afternoon. Our show today brought to you by new Relic. You've been there. We've all been there. If your software engineer and network administrator CIS up, you're nice and cozy in bed, fast asleep, snoring away. The phone rings something's wrong. Something's broken the network's down. The software is not running. And of course your hearts starts pounding your mind's racing. You're jumping outta in the middle of the night.

Leo Laporte (01:24:27):
What could be wrong? And that's the problem. What could be wrong? You don't know? Is it the back end? Is it the front end? Is it the a global problem? Is it a local problem? Is it your server? Is it the network? Is it the cloud provider? Do we have slow running queries? Is our database broken? Did I introduce a bug in my last deploy? That's the one you don't. I hope not, but now you got your whole team scrambling. They're they're going from tool to tool, scratching their heads messaging. Do you see it? I don't know what's going on back and forth. That is not the way to run operation. Unfortunately it's a way about half the organizations in the world do it. According to new Relic, they did a report only about of all organizations have implemented observability for their networks and their systems.

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You know, you can see all your traces without having to jump through a bunch of hoops, fine and fix issues. Fast there's network performance monitoring that gets past the silo and gives you a system wide correlated view. No more fog. You get to see it all. You get to see it all clearly. And that's just four of the 16 products you can. It's so accurate. You can pinpoint issues down to the line of code. So if there's, if you did push a breaking update, you can find it fast and fix it. That's why the dev and ops teams at DoorDash and GitHub and epic games in more than 14,000 other companies use new Relic to debug and improve their software. I don't know how if you don't have it, I don't know how you've survived without it. Can I tell you the best part you can do it right now for free.

Leo Laporte (01:26:58):
Look that middle of the night calls just waiting to have and get new Relic before it does get the whole new Relic plant form and a hundred gigabytes of data free every month for the rest of your life. You don't even need to give 'em a credit card. Look, if you wanna try it free forever. No credit card need to just go to new relic.com/MacBreak. Is it the server? Is it the network? You may not know. New Relic knows N E w R E L I C. Dot of com slash MacBreak. I think that's an incredible offer. No credit card needed. They can't charge you. You get the whole platform and a hundred gigabytes of data a month, which is a lot free forever. New relic.com/mac. Big. Please use that address. So they know you saw it here. New relic.com/MacBreak. So I went back and forth cuz I had just bought I'm such an idiot. You heard me talk about it last week, a brand new 4k monitor for Lisa big 31 inch brand new Brio camera for Lisa.

Leo Laporte (01:27:59):
And I thought, oh cuz she wa she's doing a lot of podcasts. She's doing a lot of video. She's still doing a lot of work from home. She needs a nice setup. She's earned it. She deserves it. She works really hard. She has that beautiful 49 inch display that they'll display. And she's gonna, we wanna replace the iMac cause it's an eight year old iMac. So I wanna pull that out. This is a great iMac replacement. I thought, oh, I'm gonna get into the monitor too. There's two display, not what was rumored they were talking about. Oh, it's gonna be seven K blah, blah, blah. No, this is in fact a normal monitor. 27 inches 5k, not seven K true tone. Interestingly, it has an, a 13 bionic in it. Yes. It's got a processor that's to drive the ultra wide camera.

Leo Laporte (01:28:49):
Does the center stage thing. It's got full array mics in there. Apparently it's got great audio too. I mean, I I'll have to I'll hear it when I believe it. But apparently it's got something like six speakers in there and a subwoofer and, and all of that stuff. It's got three 10 gigabit, U I'm sorry. Gigabyte, USBC ports. One Thunderbolt, four port. So it's a very nice monitor when I'm hearing, 'em talk about it. I'm thinking that's a $2,000 monitor. In fact, I hope they can get it in it under 2015 99. Hmm. So I had to buy it for Lisa she's she's earned it. She'd she'd say what? You only got me the max, I'm gonna say, but I got you monitor too. And this for camera and everything. I think this is gonna be a good a good choice. Yes.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:38):
Yeah. It really, it really seems more like an accessory than a monitor. It seems as though it's, it's delivering so much. So, so many features be beyond simply here is a way to look at the pixels that are imaginary inside the CPU. The fact, well,

Leo Laporte (01:29:53):
For instance, it can power a laptop. So it's your doc. It's really a doc as much to monitor, right? Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:59):
And, and also the fact that it's got its own eight, eighth or ort 13 side's yeah. It's like how, how, how soon before someone figures out how to get this thing to run doo without anything plugged into it.

Leo Laporte (01:30:11):
Well, what this, but it, it confirms what I, my feelings that this is really, we're not gonna do another iMac. We're not gonna do another iMac pro I and iMac. We're gonna decouple 'em it's the iMac Deru and this would be the monitor of an iMac, right. With a T2 chip and all that, the audio and the audio. Right.

Andy Ihnatko (01:30:30):
Great, great camera. Great microphones. Great audio. This is, this is designed

Leo Laporte (01:30:34):
Facial. It does spa audio

Alex Lindsay (01:30:37):
Go. Yeah. And it's not the, it's not the, there's still an iMac. If you want something all in, there's still a very fast iMac that does,

Leo Laporte (01:30:44):
But 24 inches it's

Alex Lindsay (01:30:46):
Really, but that's but that's, but I don't, but the pro is gone. I think if you're a pro you're gonna get the studio or the pro or the mini or whatever, and

Leo Laporte (01:30:54):
That's the right way to go.

Alex Lindsay (01:30:55):
I think. Absolutely.

Leo Laporte (01:30:57):
It's got the little tray for your your fat boy. I actually got Lisa the there's there's three to different arms. Not a thousand dollars, by the way. Thank God. There's a regular arm. There's one that tilty, swoopy, doopy, kinda like a iMac thing. And then there's a visa amount. I ended up getting her the middle one, cuz I think she, it might be nice for her to be able to tilt it around and up and down and all that stuff. Anything else to say about this? It's interesting that Apples, which Apple abandoned this market, they said, no, go get somebody else's monitor.

Alex Lindsay (01:31:34):
I think, I think part of the problem is, is it's really hard to find good displays for max like that. It really take advantage of what the Mac can do. And so I think that had to take care of this market because they, they build this kind of unified experience. And then you have, you know, all the monitors that you try to buy the Dell monitors and I have five Dell monitors.

Leo Laporte (01:31:53):
That's what I bought her a beautiful Dell. It was 600 bucks. It's not expensive,

Alex Lindsay (01:31:59):
But they don't take full advantage of what the Mac can do. And they're kind of you like, oh, they're fine. Like they're cheap, you know? So you buy 'em. But, but the but I think Apple needed to get back into it because it, it NA, especially if you're gonna move to this modular, look, this the Mac minis and the Mac studios and the, and the Mac pros, you gotta, you gotta be able to control that pipeline all the way through. So I think that that's part of it

Leo Laporte (01:32:20):
Is that really, that it's, if we're gonna make an iMac, we gotta make the

Alex Lindsay (01:32:24):
Monitors. If you're not gonna make the iMac pro you're gonna have to make the monitors that will

Leo Laporte (01:32:26):
Support it. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:32:28):
No, that's, they, they, they have nothing. They have nothing to really offer in terms of giving someone a standard display, unless they want someone wants to spend $5,000 for an absolutely best in as panel. But what they can do is make a very human oriented display that, that reflects the fact in the past five years of a microphones in a webcam have gone from a weirdo thing that some weirdos who do podcasts have, and some, some people who chat with their grandchildren over over Skype do to a basic part of the, of the human computing experience. The, the, and also the ability to do everything via one wire through thunder through Thunderbolt has also created this opportunity to make things very, very tidy and very, very clean. And $1,600 is still more that I can spend on an external display. But if if, if a, if certain dead beats from five or six years ago came, finally came through on

Leo Laporte (01:33:22):
Checks.

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:23):
And I, and I decided, Hey, I, I wasn't expecting to get this $4,000. I might, you know, this is, this is the sort of thing I might blow that money on

Leo Laporte (01:33:29):
Because aunt Debbie passes. Yes. Your great

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:31):
Answer. No, no, no, no, no. I'm,

Leo Laporte (01:33:34):
I'm talk,

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:34):
I'm talking about I'm, I'm a survivor of many, many publishing vault ventures.

Leo Laporte (01:33:38):
Oh, sorry. We pay you by the way on time. Right. I you're about us. Yeah. Okay, good. Exactly. No, no, no. That's one of the reasons Lisa needs an ice computer and a nice monitor so that you get paid on time. So think of it that way. Exactly. in fact, this is the tagline on Apple's site fits right in, you know, that's exactly what they're saying. This is this is, is for somebody who wanted to buy an iMac pro.

Alex Lindsay (01:34:04):
I mean, and, and when you think about like what I've just bought with that, I didn't, I'm not getting that display right now, but, but the but if you look at what I just bought you, you're talking 35 hun, you know, $3,500 or maybe almost $4,000. And now you have this incredible display with a very fast computer. I mean, it's it, it's, what's, what's crazy is now the performance per dollar is going, you know, the performance per dollar is getting better and better and better with the Mac. Instead of, for a long time, it felt like it was going

Leo Laporte (01:34:30):
The other direction. We're like, we really love the operating system, but the, the computers are just, you know,

Alex Lindsay (01:34:34):
They're good enough, but now it's just

Leo Laporte (01:34:37):
It's. Well, I remember when they came out with the 5k I Mac and that was great, but the problem is you buy that and you're done. I mean, this

Alex Lindsay (01:34:43):
Is, but you also never felt like you never felt like you were buying the fastest, best computer. You were buying the best one within the ecosystem that you've, that we've chosen. And we know that it'll be a little bit slower and we know that it's a little bit more re you know, constrained, but, but we love Apple. You know, we love our OS and, you know, we don't wanna use PCs. So, so I think that there was, there was a little bit of that now as a Mac user, you're kind of like, I'm gonna, you know, buying the fastest thing I can get for the dollar. And and it's, you know, a Mac. So,

Leo Laporte (01:35:12):
So they also offer the nano texture glass, which the XDR pioneered the glass. You're not supposed to touch. I hope they include the, the polishing cloth. That'd be a $19 value.

Alex Lindsay (01:35:27):
Yeah. 

Leo Laporte (01:35:29):
We should, I have, I didn't get the nano glass that's

Alex Lindsay (01:35:33):
I didn't, no, I won't. Yeah. Okay. I just, I wouldn't get it.

Leo Laporte (01:35:36):
Just check in just like with my consult consulting, if you're folks,

Alex Lindsay (01:35:39):
If I, what I wanted them to say is, is if you, if you're in, in a bright environment with your computer, you should get blinds, get

Leo Laporte (01:35:46):
Blinds they're cheaper and they're better. Yeah. Just

Alex Lindsay (01:35:49):
Like I'm, I I'm, it's important to me to put something on the screen to improve my, my lighting. I, I close everything down pretty quickly,

Leo Laporte (01:35:57):
But here's, and they didn't mention, but I see this in the fine print. The a 13 bionic chip built into the monitor in enables features like center stage spatial audio, and Hey, Siri

Alex Lindsay (01:36:09):
That makes more sense. I was trying to figure that out. I was, I was like, I gotta research a little bit of that. I was like, what's the,

Leo Laporte (01:36:14):
So you can talk to the monitor. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:36:19):
No, that, that, that makes a lot of sense because that the, the, the, the gatekeeper for that feature is, is an ASIC that just simply is always powered and is always listening for a hot word, as opposed to keeping a big CPU lit up all the time. So yeah, it's, that makes a whole lot of sense. Again, it's an access, it's the first time that Apple's done a monitor as a real accessory, as opposed to just a screen with some forts on it.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:39):
Yeah. And it, it is, it is something that is specifically not just a monitor so you as a Mac user, I mean, I think I'll, it's somewhere in my future. The problem is, is that I wanna be able to route lots of different computers to the same monitor. So it doesn't make as much sense for me, but otherwise it's you know, if you're just using like a normal person it is it, it is an credible addition to what the, what the computer already does.

Leo Laporte (01:37:01):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:37:02):
Yeah. Wonder what else is on there that I'm I'm secret.

Leo Laporte (01:37:05):
I what expects? Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:37:07):
Yeah. No, well that like if they're secure enclave ships, I could take advantage of essentially the presence. It's it makes more sense now to think of that as a way to bring iPhone exclusive features to the Mac, because the stuff that requires that kind of

Leo Laporte (01:37:21):
Stuff, and they're 13 in there. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:37:22):
So if you wanna do face ID on a monitor, that seems like a future

Leo Laporte (01:37:27):
Opportunity. Oh, Andrew. Yeah. There's no LIDAR though. It's just a 12 megapixel camera. They do offer a variety of reference modes, so they are kind of verging into the pro sphere. It's P three Apple display, but also BT seven, nine and 6 0 1 P three D C seven

Alex Lindsay (01:37:46):
Nine is what everything's been everything's

Leo Laporte (01:37:48):
Everything's what you want is seven

Alex Lindsay (01:37:49):
You're looking for is BT 2020 is, is that's all that doesn't do. Okay. The other one and, and, but the P three is good and, and 600 nits is, you know, that's part of why the price goes down 600, the difference between 600 nits and 1600 or 50 nits. The other one is, is a big difference when it comes to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:38:04):
12 megapixel ultra wide camera, 122 degree field of view center stage. So it moves around. I like center stage and they do it SU more subtly than say the Facebook portal.

Alex Lindsay (01:38:13):
I wish that there were, is, I do wish that center stage would let us tweak it just a little bit.

Leo Laporte (01:38:17):
So you could say focus on this instead of follow me around,

Alex Lindsay (01:38:21):
I would like to have little things like less headroom. Yeah. Like it, it

Leo Laporte (01:38:25):
Likes, it

Alex Lindsay (01:38:26):
Naturally goes to like old. It, it naturally goes to old fashioned TV, headroom center, 20 it's like, action. It's like action safe. But, but that's the, not what we do on the internet anymore, but like we're dipping into the, you know, right up to the edge. Yeah. And it just always feels uncomfortable. Like, like every time someone's on center stage, I'm like, wow, I got a lot of headroom.

Leo Laporte (01:38:44):
Oh, there's a question for my lover and our IRC. Maybe you can airplay to the monitor.

Alex Lindsay (01:38:49):
I think I, I'm very curious. A thirteen's got a lot of power

Leo Laporte (01:38:53):
You'd need normally. So I,

Alex Lindsay (01:38:54):
I, I kind of feel like you could, I mean, with an a 13, you could theoretically do Apple arcade, you know, or Apple, it's an Apple

Leo Laporte (01:38:59):
TV. What is in the Apple TV? That's the Apple TV?

Alex Lindsay (01:39:02):
The newer one has, I think in the 14, I think. Okay. But

Leo Laporte (01:39:06):
It's maybe, I mean, it's, it could be theoretical

Alex Lindsay (01:39:08):
An Apple TV. It could totally do an app. What an Apple TV does in the monitor. Like it could just be a, it could be a, oh my goodness. It could be a like, like, like literally,

Leo Laporte (01:39:18):
Well, they do

Alex Lindsay (01:39:18):
Show, oh, it's like, they're they show

Leo Laporte (01:39:20):
Foundation playing on it. But unfortunately it says requires Apple TV, so

Alex Lindsay (01:39:24):
Right. But, but you could, I mean, this is they're. They are now like right up on the end.

Leo Laporte (01:39:30):
Oh, they're doing that's the TV is what you're saying. They

Alex Lindsay (01:39:32):
Could literally, if they made it TWiTce as big and just next

Leo Laporte (01:39:36):
Yeah. Next year they're verging on a TV. Aren't they?

Alex Lindsay (01:39:41):
It could

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:41):
Be. Yeah. That's it. And that's only, I think that's the 2019, I'm looking it up right now, but I think that's the 20, that was in the 2019 iPhones. So it's not as though they just had

Alex Lindsay (01:39:50):
A,

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:51):
A full of old chips.

Leo Laporte (01:39:52):
Well, they might have. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:54):
Well, yeah, but I mean, it's like, this is it's, it's, it's a, it's a current generation chip, so it's not as though it, so basically can do stuff. Basically, if you bought, if you bought an iPhone, like two or three years ago, it had this chip. So basically it's not as though you've been orphaned behind by features that that are only available in the a 14. So that's, that is very interesting. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder if they, I I'm, I'm sure that I'm just like, you know, that's beards stroking here, but boy, wouldn't it be great if there was, you bought one and you're happy with it because of all the features of a monitor. And then like in the fall they said, oh, by the way there's gonna be a software update for your monitor. That turns it into an Apple TV that may exit into an airplay target that does all these things. Cause that's a, that's a hell of, that's a very interesting chip to put into that display, to just do things like run the camera

Alex Lindsay (01:40:48):
And they do that. They do it, they, they do these kinds of things where they put chips in the ultra wide band was in a lot of phones before they even started talking

Leo Laporte (01:40:55):
Down the road. Yeah. It does say interestingly, it has a list of the max that it's compatible with, but it also is compatible with the iPad pros and the iPad air fifth generation. Yeah. So I guess you can, oh,

Alex Lindsay (01:41:07):
That's really interesting. That is

Leo Laporte (01:41:08):
Interesting. Isn't it? I, that they even put it in there is

Alex Lindsay (01:41:12):
Interesting, but having a TV with an a 14 is,

Leo Laporte (01:41:16):
Oh my

Alex Lindsay (01:41:17):
There's a lot. Like they can do that. They're not doing right now. Yeah. Like when you think, now that my head's getting wrapped around at I'm. Cause at first I was like, why would they do that? And now I it's

Leo Laporte (01:41:25):
A TV.

Alex Lindsay (01:41:26):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:41:27):
Not yet, but soon maybe. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:41:29):
What the hell putting M one in there? Go for it. Exactly.

Leo Laporte (01:41:33):
I got a lot of them. They're easy. They make 'em fast TSMC crank. 'em Out as much.

Alex Lindsay (01:41:37):
Here's an 80 inch TV with an M one. You

Leo Laporte (01:41:40):
Know, you know what, that's a product I'd be interested in. That's very app

Alex Lindsay (01:41:44):
For $6,000 to back

Leo Laporte (01:41:46):
To back into it like that. Well,

Alex Lindsay (01:41:47):
You get good at it. You, you also are driving the price down of the components and everything else. And so, and, and you're out, you know, like you can pro a pro a pro display with a couple extras is great. And you can do a little surprise and delight with a, you know, with an extra you know, being able to turn it on, make it an Apple TV, but you wouldn't want to come out of the gate trying to figure this out with a consumer device. Right. Exactly.

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:09):
You wouldn't, you wouldn't even want to hint at it. Yep. So it's so up to people like us to make people start to expect these things by saying, Ooh, wouldn't it be exciting if we

Alex Lindsay (01:42:16):
Do this? Yeah. Now, now we expect it. Like now every, every Apple thing will be like, well, it's not the TV. The TV we know is coming.

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:23):
We expect surprises and delights. Oh, dare you. Here's the other surprises.

Alex Lindsay (01:42:27):
Here's the other thing is, is that if you are going to go into AR and if you are going to do some of those things, having the TV be able to interact, having a brain, a brain of its own allows the display to interact with the, the, the AR device in a much, much tighter way than going through the computers. So there's a bunch of things that it, it could know and be able to do it. So this also could be setting up for AR integration.

Leo Laporte (01:42:53):
I was very surprised. I really thought with the with the name peak P E K performance that we might see or hear, or get a hint of AR VR the rumor mill was that might have

Alex Lindsay (01:43:06):
Been may 13.

Leo Laporte (01:43:08):
You think that's it? I,

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:12):
I think that, I think that once again, in a, in a, in a casual office, somewhere in the spaceship, there are people who are cracking open beers, having a good laugh and all those people, all we meant was that we're gonna give you a peak at some of the performance that we are. I can't believe that they thought that there was gonna be a hovercraft in October.

Leo Laporte (01:43:28):
Well, the rumor still says there will be a VR headset by the end of the year. There'll be plenty more for Apple announced. As we mentioned at the beginning of this show at the end of their show, they, Tim cook said, and the Mac pro don't forget our maybe is John Turner. The Mac pro is still to come the one more piece of the puzzle. And, and that was important, cuz it also said, that's it, we're not gonna do an iMac pro, right. We're not gonna do a mini Mac pro there's, but maybe they will, but there's a Mac pro and then that'll be it. And honestly, the studio for me is all the Mac pro I'd ever want. I mean, this is exactly what I would want a Mac pro or a mini macro pro to be.

Alex Lindsay (01:44:05):
And you can just say, they're feeling pretty cocky when they start talking about it. Like, Hey, we got one more, one more, more, you know, like something else covered. And you know, like, because you know, if you're gonna call it a Mac pro, if, if the max, if the studio looks like this, the Mac pro has to be 1.5 to two times faster. Yeah. Minimum. That's what they, you

Leo Laporte (01:44:22):
Know, like

Alex Lindsay (01:44:23):
It's every single minimum and probably three or four X. Yeah. And so it's, it's gonna be a thing. So

Leo Laporte (01:44:27):
Is it M one or M two? It's M two. It's probably quad dye. Maybe yeah, very interesting.

Alex Lindsay (01:44:35):
Yeah. I mean the Mac pro again, with the Mac pro you could make the dye a lot bigger. Like they can't fit it into that with, but you could make a, a much larger dye if you wanted to on a, on a larger form factor. So

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:46):
Yeah, from the beginning, I've always I'm I, I think obviously it's, it's no no random chance that they're saving the Mac pro for last, because that's, and, and I think that's also very, very cany for them to say, by the way, this is, if you are, if you're waiting for the most powerful max that we are going to make with the first generation Apple S do not buy this one, please hold on to your money because we've got more to do, but I've always thought that maam, when they decide, when they decide that we don't care about power per wa so much, we don't care about heat. Cuz we'll put in fans, we don't care about making a small trim, attractive box. All we want to do is make faces melt. That's gonna be something to see

Alex Lindsay (01:45:26):
It also freezes. I mean, it's, at this point, it's gotta start freezing people's purchases on high end PCs because it's, you know, like if they just saw what that just did and they think that one's gonna go the other direction without, without too much with the price, you know, there's there, I think there's some companies that are gonna be like, Ooh, I might might not buy that. You know, that big Invidia machine you know, we might wait a little bit longer to see what Apple does with that. And it doesn't fix anything. People on a PA on a that need it right now. Or people that are you know, on a PA on a, on a schedule, aren't gonna change what they're doing. But I think people who used to be on the Mac, went to the PC and are thinking to buy another big machine. Might wait just a little while to see what happens. What

Leo Laporte (01:46:11):
Do you think the people at Intel are thinking right now?

Alex Lindsay (01:46:17):
They're they are I can't say what don't think I could say what. Yeah. It's just like, they're, they've gotta be super worried. I

Leo Laporte (01:46:27):
Wonder if we get Apple to make those chips in our factory,

Alex Lindsay (01:46:31):
They just talked about how we're just we're as fast as the M one. And then I was like, okay, well

Leo Laporte (01:46:35):
Let's well, we, you know what? I knew that they said that they, they, they had to say that then, because it was only gonna be true for a very short period

Alex Lindsay (01:46:43):
Of time. I mean, the, the problem is is they, I think when they said it, they looked at Apple and they said, they said, why are you still smiling? He says, because I'm not lefthanded.

Leo Laporte (01:46:53):
The I'm sure there's a joke. And I'll have to, I mean,

Alex Lindsay (01:46:58):
As as little princess bride

Leo Laporte (01:46:58):
Reference. Oh, princess bride. Oh yeah. Lefthanded. I get it. I get it. Why are you smiling?

Alex Lindsay (01:47:05):
I'm not

Leo Laporte (01:47:06):
Understand. That's

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:09):
Good.

Leo Laporte (01:47:10):
Actually. I like it. That's exactly what's going on. They are very good.

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:15):
Quick, quick point. I comb Jackson on TWiTtter pointed out that the new monitor actually has a better CCP, more modern CPU than the 4k 4k Apple TV. The 4k only has an a 12 bionic. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:47:27):
Okay. My thoughts exactly. They got an Apple TV in there. They're do better. Very interesting. What Apple is up to is mind boggling. And they are absolutely showing that the move to Apple Silicon was the right thing to do. They even showed that in some respects, the ultra is faster. Then the Zion's the top of the line Zon Mac pro

Alex Lindsay (01:47:54):
I, I, I'm sorry. I just think about the last comment. I realize you could be watching Apple TV while you're doing something else on the Mac. And the monitor could just give it both, but the TV part, wouldn't be processed on the Mac at all. Picture and picture. Yeah. Be picture and picture, but it's

Leo Laporte (01:48:08):
Just a little picture and picture running off the eight, 13 bionic. No big, Hey Siri man.

Alex Lindsay (01:48:15):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:48:15):
Play Ted lasso again. Yeah, it's crazy.

Andy Ihnatko (01:48:20):
Or, or put a, get a really, really big stack of Nu of of battery packs behind it and turn it into a giant iPhone.

Alex Lindsay (01:48:29):
What

Leo Laporte (01:48:30):
Do you do? I'm making a call.

Andy Ihnatko (01:48:32):
All, all we, all we lack is the will to that's.

Leo Laporte (01:48:35):
That's why I got the visa out. So I can have this headset with a visa Mount on it.

Andy Ihnatko (01:48:41):
God, this creep on the subway was looking over my shoulder while I was texting on my 27 and giant phone the

Leo Laporte (01:48:46):
Creep. All right. Hey, it, I guess we should do picks. I do you, do you guys wanna do picks? I know what my pick is an ultra Andy, Andy, what's your pick of the week?

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:00):
I had a very quick one because I didn't really plan ahead for this. This is the 20th anniversary of one of my favorite TV drama. Certainly my favorite cop drama ever the shield which debuted on FXX 20 years ago. And I won't give you the big talk up the all take it's on Hulu. It's seven years. I think it's, I don't think there's ever been a more successful continuing drama on TV where it's not where they, they decided to say, oh, here's the, here's the here's this constant. And we have the first six episodes mapped out and, but we got shocked. We were not ready to be successful. And so we had nothing. We had no ideas after season three or season four. It is all about the, this all season seven seasons, which I saw like when they first aired is all about what happens during the pilot.

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:51):
It's one of the most meaningful pilots and they absolutely stuck the landing with the final episode. I don't think there's ever been a better final, final episode, particularly of a drama. So I'm, so that, that, that's all I'll say it is. It is it is amazing. The intensity, they got the characterization, the storylines they got by the time you get to the end of it, it's just this earthquake of consequences. Finally, coming to bear after seven whole seasons. So all I'll say is that go on, go on to Hulu. If you subscribe, watch the pilot. I absolutely absolutely watch the pilot, obviously watching and seasons of a, of a drama is a big ask. But I think that if you, even, if you don't get into the entire story, it will be one of the best 40 something minutes of television you've ever seen. And it will probably hook you into thinking what the hell happens after this. And you'll, it'll be, it's one of those terrible things where you, well, I'll just watch the, a few episodes in the first season just to see how this pays a out. And then like three weeks later, you're canceling stuff because, oh my God, what the hell is going to happen in the final three episodes

Leo Laporte (01:50:55):
I'm watching you know, I really mocked Hulu for a long time. I realize I'm watching a bunch of stuff on Hulu, all of a sudden, including the dropout and Pam and Tommy, which is trashy. But I love it.

Andy Ihnatko (01:51:07):
If you can fight your away through that terrible,

Leo Laporte (01:51:09):
Awful

Andy Ihnatko (01:51:09):
Interest, there's some good content there. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm shocked at how much, like I'll, I'll be watching something during lunch and that I wanna come back to that exact same show. The next episode, during dinner and the number of times I have to click my remote after getting to the hula app to get back to the thing I was just watching is atrocious, but some of the content,

Leo Laporte (01:51:29):
Oh, I agree. A hundred percent actually all of these programs are terrible. Terrible Netflix, go ahead and try to find the thing you were just watching or the new thing that, I mean, it's crazy. They're I whoever's doing their UIs. I actually got so complicated. I actually have, in my obsidian notebook, a list of movies started or shows I've started shows I've finished and now I've added the shield to shows I wanna watch. And then next to it, I have to put what happenss on, cuz I can never keep track of any

Andy Ihnatko (01:51:58):
Of that stuff. Right. That stuff that too. I mean, crazy. I love, I love Reno 9 1 1, but this is the second time since it was canceled off of comedy central, that there are new episodes for the original cast, the original writers, but it's on another streaming network that I can't subscribe to Roku just to watch this one show. Like, I, I can't, I can't subscribe to peacock or whatever paramount plus or whatever it was as to say nothing of trying, just trying to figure out what channel it's on. Like you've oftentimes I'll be, I'll be reading a review that is like on AV club or whatever that, oh wow. This gots me really. This got me really interested. It doesn't say what streaming service it's on or when it starts. So I, it slips out my mind. It's hard. This is, this is one of the reasons why I keep going, coming back to, to Plex that, you know, I buy it's like, I I'll I'll buy a movie, I'll rip it. I'll put it onto Plex. And it's there for me. It will tell me like smart here. Oh, here's what you were just watching yesterday. If you wanna continue where you left off. Go ahead. Yeah. 

Leo Laporte (01:52:55):
Anyway, I agree with you, Alex. Lindsay's got a pick of the week. Go ahead, Alex. Aerobic cube.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:03):
I'd like to think I like the thing Chris Bewick who's in office hours and, and he there's been a bunch of discussions about Rubik's cubes and he's very fast at it. I'm horrible at it, but, but I got excited about it because he was talking about it and he was, you know, watching him do it. And I was like, okay, which one is that? And he's like, oh, this one's really, really good. And

Leo Laporte (01:53:22):
So these are not the officials, Rubic cubes.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:24):
This is not. And I gotta tell you as someone who grew up with one

Leo Laporte (01:53:27):
Speed cubes,

Alex Lindsay (01:53:28):
As someone who grew up with one, this is an entirely different level because

Leo Laporte (01:53:31):
It was always so hard to turn it and squeak it.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:34):
No. So this one has, so

Leo Laporte (01:53:36):
It's one, it better be good for $64.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:39):
Oh, mine 71. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:53:40):
My God. You have to be very dedicated to the Rubik. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:44):
The thing is it's got magnets in when you spin it. It just stops, you know? So you can it'll

Leo Laporte (01:53:48):
Find it. It sounds good too. Has a nice it's

Alex Lindsay (01:53:50):
The, the, the movement. And here's the better part about it is. It's not just that the movement is really nice. It's that? It has. I misplaced it. But hold on.

Leo Laporte (01:53:59):
Did you get the sticker list one or the sticker one?

Alex Lindsay (01:54:04):
Did

Leo Laporte (01:54:04):
You get one without stickers that you put your

Alex Lindsay (01:54:06):
Yeah, Yeah. The, the, the, it comes with these little adjustable wrenches to change them.

Leo Laporte (01:54:12):
Oh

Alex Lindsay (01:54:13):
Yeah. Like

Leo Laporte (01:54:14):
This is likely the unholy child of a Rubik's cube and, and a fidget spinner together. Screw in everything. No, it is

Alex Lindsay (01:54:22):
The ultimate fidget. Cause I sit there and I I'm just like, you know, just like

Leo Laporte (01:54:27):
It's got a numerical variable nut.

Alex Lindsay (01:54:29):
Yeah. And so, so you can actually change it. And when you watch, this is like what the, like the folks who do competition, this is the competition

Leo Laporte (01:54:37):
Competition.

Alex Lindsay (01:54:38):
Yeah. You know, and, and it's and so it is, and it's, it's quite pleasure. And I have to admit that if you're, if I'm in a really, really slow meeting, most of the time, I I'm the one talking. So it doesn't. So I don't use this very much, but if I'm in a meeting where I'm just like, it's really nice. I just sit there, just like do do. And sometimes I finish one of the sides.

Leo Laporte (01:54:54):
Is this the mag Lev UV coded three by three

Alex Lindsay (01:54:58):
Speech. Mine is the Maglev frosted. Yeah. Frosted.

Leo Laporte (01:55:01):
Mag frosted. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. From G, G a N. Yeah. Is the G store they got 'em all guess they've must.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:08):
Yeah. They've kind of they've everybody's got their own flavor of them. Yeah. These guys are the,

Leo Laporte (01:55:13):
It doesn't say Rubik's cube. It just says cube.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:16):
Right, right. Cause they can't, they can't. But the 

Leo Laporte (01:55:19):
But they have it for beginners. They have smart cubing, advanced cubes.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:24):
And so we're, I have to admit there's it turns out that another member grant Whitehead in, in Australia, his son is really good. Like really good at this. And, and and then Chris is, Chris is really good too. So we we've already decided there'll be some office hours, like after hours, things of us like learning how to actually do the psycho pro. So and we,

Leo Laporte (01:55:47):
I want one, here's what I want. Maybe they'll make it with a little motor in it so I can connect it to a USB port so I can write a program. So it,

Alex Lindsay (01:55:56):
You, they do them. They, they do 'em, they they're, they have, they have ones that manipulate this and it's like a second 1.3 second or something like that goes,

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:04):
I've it. Some, somebody has made a self-contained self solving ruts crew cube with internal motors I need and it's and looks no, no. I mean, you've seen all these robots that, that, that do that do the manipulation outside. This is like, no, you, you, you, you mix it up. You put, there you go, you put it on a table and it just solves itself.

Alex Lindsay (01:56:25):
That's awesome.

Leo Laporte (01:56:27):
This was on Adam. Savage's tested channel. That's how you know about it. Look at that. That's

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:32):
Definitely like you, you, you time travel back like a Connecticut, Connecticut, Yankee, and king Arthur's court, but you time travel back to like the 1980s. If you like set this thing down in 1982, a table of lunch room, that's how you are a God, we will follow you anywhere.

Leo Laporte (01:56:47):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:47):
Really sourcer room.

Leo Laporte (01:56:48):
And there'll be an eclipse tomorrow at 3:00 PM. Ah, how does he know it? That's really so cool. A self solving rubiks cube. Holy Ole. There it is. Yeah. We have a winner. Thank you, Alex. Great to have you. Thank you, Andy. Andy, when will, wouldn't you be on GBH next?

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:12):
I'm off this week, but next week at 1230 on Friday, w GB news.org, or go to the Boston public library, you can watch it live.

Leo Laporte (01:57:19):
There's Frederick van Johnson doing his review of the Panasonic G six on today. He came on today. Office hours.global office hours continues to be the most amaz it's as it's the equivalent of a self solving Rubic cube for for broadcast.

Alex Lindsay (01:57:35):
It's incredible. We had this, if you go back and look at the Saturday session, I think we have, it might be up there if we built, this is, this is the, this is the beginning of the sat, our Saturday sessions. So this is our, so this is we, we built this, this system out of a pizza box. And so 

Leo Laporte (01:57:51):
What is it, what does it do?

Alex Lindsay (01:57:53):
So it's gonna be, so we're, we're, it's the function is for us to learn really how to program it. This is a, this is using the MI the BBC micro micro bit into what's called a maker bit, which is, which basically unleashes the little micro bit. And so you've got this little, you know, it's kind of like an Arduino you know, it's similar to that except yeah. It's a little easier to program. And so so anyway, so a bunch of us got together. We, we Roger Wagner, who's been teaching this for a long time. Mostly the kids, but we we're, we're big kids. So he sent these to us and we step by step, went through building these all together. And it's a little, it's gonna be like a little T light and it can play thing, you know, push, push things out and we're gonna program it next weekend. So we spent like three hours building this thing and wiring it together, but all together. So it's like, it's like, we're all sitting there. And what's funny is when you do it, like we, when you have a whole bunch of people with multi camera, like it's so much more fun because there's, there's Roger. And so when everybody has multiple cameras, it gets to be like a really fun thing to do because you're actually seeing what the other ones are doing and what they're, what, what, what we're putting together. And it, it, it was, it's

Leo Laporte (01:58:59):
Like the world's best club. It

Alex Lindsay (01:59:01):
Is, it

Leo Laporte (01:59:02):
Is fun.

Alex Lindsay (01:59:03):
Three, three hours just evaporated for me. Like, it was just like, dude, do do, do we didn't stop. We didn't take any breaks. We were like, we were just kind of cooking through it and just having a great time. And we're gonna program it this, this weekend. We're gonna program these and, and then we'll keep on doing, you know, bigger projects with them. But it's just a lot of, a lot of microprocesor fun.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:21):
Alex, have an important question. Are your members allowed to marry outside the group?

Alex Lindsay (01:59:28):
Yeah. That's how you bring more people in. Okay, good, good, good. It's it's the ears check away. It's you surround them and then you marry, marry, marry, marry out, and then you become part of the tribe

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:39):
Every few months. I like to ask that question just to make sure that

Leo Laporte (01:59:43):
Office hours.global. And of course, if you wanna hire Alex to do your next streaming event. Oh nine oh.media. Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Andy Rene. You'll be back next week. I hope to tell us all he has learned from Apple. What a day. This has been what a rare mood I'm in, why it's almost like charging $10,000 in five minutes.

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:10):
It's almost like being $10,000 in debt. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:00:14):
Thank you for joining us. We do MacBreak Weekly every Tuesday, very conveniently after the Apple events, as it turns out 11:00 AM Pacific at 2:00 PM. Eastern. Thank you Apple for keeping it to 57 minutes. Perfect timing. We also you can, which means you can watch us live if you want live.Twit.tv. If you're watching live chat with us, live@ircdotTWiT.tv. If you're a member of club TWiT, there's a discord channel, not only for every show, but for every topic under the sun Stacy's book club, the untitled Linux show the GI fizz this week in space. Lots of good stuff going on in the club these days. I think at the end of the month, Paul throt will be our guest for a fireside chat with aunt Pruitt. You wanna know more, just go to TWiT.tv/club TWiT $7 a month is all it costs to be a member of the club.

Leo Laporte (02:01:02):
You also get ad free version of all of our shows and a lot of additional content that doesn't make it to the podcasts, TWiT.tv/club TWiT, thank you so much for supporting us that way. It's great. After the fact of course, we still offer everything we do on demand free at our website. In the case of this show is TWiT.tv/m B w when you go there, you also see a link to the YouTube channel. All the shows have their own dedicated YouTube channel. Best way to get it, though, I think really would be to get a podcast player and subscribe that way you get it automatically, the minute it's available and you can leave us a five star review too, if you would, to help spread the word about MacBreak Weekly. Thanks guys. We'll see you next week. And as for you get back to work, cuz you know what break time is over. And I got some ordering to do,

Rod Pyle (02:01:51):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle editor of ad Astra magazine, and each week I'm joined by Tariq Malik the editor in chief over at Space.com in our new This Week in Space podcast, every Friday. Tariq and I take a deep dive into the stories that define the new space age what's NASA up to when will Americans once again set foot on the moon. And how about those samples from the perseverance Rover? When are those coming home? What the heck is Elon must done now, in addition to all the latest and greatest and space exploration will take an occasional look at bits of space flight history that you probably never heard of and all with an eye towards having a good time along the way, check us out in your favorite podcast. Catcher.