MacBreak Weekly Episode 809 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak weekly. Alex Lindsay is here from office hours, doc global, from WGBH in Boston, Andy Ihnatko, Rene Ritchie has the week off more briefings from Apple. I'm guessing, but look, who's in his place. The great Mark Gurman from Bloomberg and the 'Power On' newsletter. Mark will tell us a little bit behind the scenes stuff from Apple's event week, some of the things he missed, some of the things he knew about didn't miss also, which Apple products he's looking forward to, which ones he's going to buy a little insight into what's ahead for Apple, from somebody who knows better than almost anybody else coming up next on Mac break, weekly.

... (00:00:40):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:50):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly episode 809 recorded Tuesday, March 15th, 2022. As tall as a middle finger MacBreak weekly is brought to you by Blueland stop wasting water and throwing out more plastic. Get blue land's revolutionary refill cleaning system. Instead, right now you can get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/mac break and by Zoc in the chaotic world of healthcare. Let Z doc be your trusted guide to find a quality doctor in a way that's surprisingly pain free. Go to Z doc.com/mac break and download the Z doc app for free. Start your search for a top rated doctor many available within 24 hours at Z doc.com/mac break. It's time for break weekly. The show we cover the latest Apple news. Wow. We had a big week last week. In fact, it was so big. It's taking Apple two weeks to brief Renee Richie. So Renee's not here, Andy and NACO is here. It's great to have you from w GB H of Boston from oh nine oh media. We've got Alex Lindsay and I, and I wanna save our special guest for last cuz it's a real thrill to have mark Goman in the house from Bloomberg's 'Power On' it's really your 'Power On' newsletter.

Mark Gurman (00:02:13):
It's good to see you. My P my 'Power On' newsletter. It's actually nice to be here. I think the last time I was a Mac weekly made have been, I don't know, five, six years ago. So the last changed since then, it's

Leo Laporte (00:02:21):
Our fault because I think we just, I decided you're too big time for us. And so

Mark Gurman (00:02:27):
That's,

Alex Lindsay (00:02:28):
I have to admit I, but I looked at it. I looked at it. I jumped on this morning. I was like Mark Gurman,

Leo Laporte (00:02:33):
Like the mark girl,

Alex Lindsay (00:02:34):
The guy we always talk about the Mike gr

Mark Gurman (00:02:36):
No stop. No, no,

Leo Laporte (00:02:37):
It's true. You

Mark Gurman (00:02:38):
Know, Micah has me on all the time on, on the other shows. It's always fun. But for us, you have a great group, Leo.

Leo Laporte (00:02:43):
Well, Hey, we're really glad to have you. And you do a great job. Of course, your ears should be burning on every Tuesday, cuz we're always quoting you and the 'Power On'. And if Renee we're here, he has sussed your, your method. Cuz he, he knows when you say sources say that that's a rumor, but when you say I expect that's you. So we we've been able to parse your pros very carefully from now on it.

Mark Gurman (00:03:10):
It, it, it depends. It, it, it changes based on how I'm feeling that oh, really? Sometimes. So I

Leo Laporte (00:03:15):
Expect could be so something, you know, just shake it up.

Mark Gurman (00:03:17):
I expect to be something I know. I mean, I won't say something unless you know, I think, I think it's true, right? Like sometimes I'll just straight up say I expect this, this and that, but that means I, I know it to be true. In other cases, I'll make it very clear. Like when I say this is my opinion, right? Like I wrote a story a few weeks ago saying that Apple should launch a $200 iPhone by lowering the price of the old one. Now me saying Apple should do something doesn't mean that I necessarily think they're going to do it. I just thought they should do it. And I still think they should do it.

Leo Laporte (00:03:49):
So clearly we're gonna have to modify our parser so that we get you exactly right.

Mark Gurman (00:03:55):
I, I like to keep you and Renee on everyone on your, on to, sorry.

Leo Laporte (00:04:01):
So actually one of the things I was thinking after the event last Tuesday was how many things the rumor mill got wrong actually.

Mark Gurman (00:04:11):
Well, so what do you think the rumor mill got

Leo Laporte (00:04:13):
Wrong? Well, we didn't see that Plexiglas covered Mac mini. The I'm guessing that what happened was Apple saw the thermals of the, of the ultra and they said, Hmm, you know, what was

Mark Gurman (00:04:27):
That? Rumor Plexiglas, Mac mini.

Leo Laporte (00:04:29):
Wasn't it with the Plexiglas top? Maybe not by you, but certainly maybe

Mark Gurman (00:04:33):
I hadn't seen that

Leo Laporte (00:04:34):
Certain certainly there were renders of a Mac mini with a thinner here. Let me see. This is from may well that's may of last year plexiglass colorful squared toy. There were lots of renders renders. You can't trust renders obviously. So there's

Mark Gurman (00:04:52):
Three Mac minis or there were three Mac minis in development, right? One of them was the Mac studio. The Mac studio is depending on who you at, it is either a beef up Mac mini or a shrunken down Mac pro. The way it was explained to me is that there's three Mac minis. One is the Mac studio. That's the high end high end high end. Yeah. And then the mid tier is sort of the M one pro

Leo Laporte (00:05:15):
M two.

Mark Gurman (00:05:16):
Yeah. Or, or the M two, the M two pro Mac mini that's gonna come out. Yeah. And then the M two Mac minis. The, is the bottom tier. So the M two Mac mini would replace the M one Mac mini that launched a year and a half ago. Right. The M two Promac mini would replace the Intel space spray, Mac mini that still exists. And then the Mac studio, obviously at the very high end. So those are your three Mac minis.

Leo Laporte (00:05:40):
Well, this is good. We only have two so far, but but we will get the third. You think this, do you think June, or do you think the fall?

Mark Gurman (00:05:48):
So there will be new max both in the middle of the year. So between may June and there also will be new max in the fall. So my belief is the Mac pro will come out either in the fall or be announced by the fall and released at the end of this year or sometime next year. I know the Mac pro they're sort of, so they were originally gonna do an M one ultra M one extreme version of the MacPro. But what I think people don't realize is that the M one chip is actually based on the, a 14 architecture, which is from already two years ago, right. From 20 20, 20. Right. And they're not gonna wanna release another Mac based on the a 14 architecture. So they're gonna move everything to an, a 15 base now for all into sense of purposes.

Mark Gurman (00:06:37):
The M one and the M two are not very different technology wise, but it's a different code base. It's a different core. And so they have to shift to that. So I would expect new max between may and June, and then more new max in the fall. There's been a lot of talk about this iMac pro I think a lot of people are tuning in cuz they wanna know what in the world is happening with the iMac pro pro. And I saw a nine five Mac, right. A few days ago through hearing there's no bigger iMac. There's no iMac pro in the works, but I'm pretty certain there's going to be an iMac pro.

Leo Laporte (00:07:07):
Interesting.

Mark Gurman (00:07:07):
It'll probably be next year. Yeah. And it'll be like M two pro M two max. It'll be the Mac desktop version of the MacBook pro, which I'm on right now. And I think is awesome.

Leo Laporte (00:07:17):
I, you, you know, we operate out of, I operate, I shouldn't speak for the others out of ignorance based on just what I reached from you and then what, what I could put together. But so a couple of things, one is I felt like the, this made a lot of sense. I was waiting to buy a mini cuz I didn't wanna buy another Ima cuz it seems silly to couple two, two devices with different update cadences, a display and a computer into one thing. And so I was just gonna buy a mini, a high end mini and it looked like Apple kind of had the same idea and said, you know, we should deconstruct the iMac. You could still get an iMac, but you get in two pieces, but you that's not the case that they still are gonna do a 27 inch iMac pro

Mark Gurman (00:08:02):
That's. So that's Apple's party line until the iMac pro comes out. Right. They can't just have people waiting. So they're gonna say get ale

Leo Laporte (00:08:12):
Serious. This is all there is. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (00:08:13):
Right. But if you break it down, if you really break it down the Mac studio, plus the studio display, if you get it with the M one alt sorry, the M one max that's 2000 almost plus the display is 1600. So that's a $3,600 machine. Right. You get it with the M one ultra. That is a, what is the M one for 4,000? That's a almost $6,000 machine, right? There is room in the lineup to have a

Leo Laporte (00:08:39):
5,000 iMac pro. Well,

Mark Gurman (00:08:42):
No, maybe, maybe, maybe, but I'm referring to something closer to 3000, right? Or in the high two thousands, something in that MacBook pro tier, right. The MacBook pro I believe is between mid two thousands and three thousands. Yeah. Depending how you spec it out. I think it goes from 2299 to 34 99 or 32 99 or whatever. Anyways, what I'm trying to say, it's in a $1,000 range in the mid, from the mid twos to the mid threes, right. That's the sweet spot for an iMac pro whereas the Mac studio with a display that comes in above, right.

Leo Laporte (00:09:14):
So it's a higher end device than an iMac pro would be.

Mark Gurman (00:09:19):
No, this is what an iMac pro would be. It would be the desktop version of the MacBook pro. So the MacBook pro has the M one pro oh, I see. And the M one max. Yeah. Eventually the M two pro and the M two max, there will be an iMac equivalent

Leo Laporte (00:09:30):
Kind of in the, the, the 24 inch iMac is sort of like an iPad on us stick.

Mark Gurman (00:09:36):
Exactly. Or, or, or the desktop equivalent to the MacBook care,

Leo Laporte (00:09:43):
Right. Or

Mark Gurman (00:09:43):
The 13 in that's

Leo Laporte (00:09:45):
Pro it's a MacBook. And

Mark Gurman (00:09:46):
By the way, there will be a revamped MacBook air. This is gonna be the biggest update to the MacBook care and the products history that's coming this year. Right. That's gonna be a full redesign call.

Leo Laporte (00:09:55):
M two M two M two.

Mark Gurman (00:09:57):
Yeah. That's M two. There's also going to be an M two MacBook pro this year. That's a 13 inch MacBook pro the 13 inch M one MacBook pro they have today will be updated to an M two to be clear though, the M one pro and M one max MacBook pro is the 14 and 16 inches. Those still will blow the M two MacBook air, Mac mini MacBookPro out of the water,

Leo Laporte (00:10:20):
Right? Yeah. This is people have likened it to Intel's TikTok cadence, where you have a new platform, which is the M two, and then you enhance it, which is the M two ultra. So you had the M one, the M one pro max and ultra. Then you can M two, which is gonna be much closer to an M one. Right? M two is essentially

Mark Gurman (00:10:41):
An M one. Yeah. It's an a, it's an a 15 based M one. Right? Right. The CPU speed increases will be quite marginal. Right. We're not talking about

Leo Laporte (00:10:50):
From that's. The other thing I find interesting is that this ultra still is the same clock speed is the base M one. I mean, they haven't changed clock speeds.

Mark Gurman (00:10:59):
So the way these, these chips work is that they're completely dynamic in, in like all these chips are all based on that quorum one, and they're just doubling and doubling and doubling, right? Like the Mac pro will be essentially

Leo Laporte (00:11:12):
You think it'll be a quad core, it'll be quad dye.

Mark Gurman (00:11:15):
It'll be a quad dye. Yeah. The MacPro will be a, a Quadi.

Leo Laporte (00:11:21):
So when Johnny CJI said, there's one thing you don't know, is this interconnect, did you know that?

Mark Gurman (00:11:27):
Yes, I knew it.

Leo Laporte (00:11:29):
Yes,

Mark Gurman (00:11:30):
Of course. But the question is, so we know there's the interconnect at the bottoms of the M one Maxs. The question I have is if there's interconnects on the sides as well, right. If it's gonna be like a perfect square or if it's gonna be a long right.

Leo Laporte (00:11:44):
A big quad tower or a, or a sign. Yeah. So

Mark Gurman (00:11:48):
Who knows the thing that always gets me, what I think is, so, I mean, it's a little funny to me is I have zero concept of how physically big these chips are. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:11:57):
I mean, they

Mark Gurman (00:11:57):
Look big.

Leo Laporte (00:11:58):
I, I

Mark Gurman (00:11:59):
Obviously

Leo Laporte (00:11:59):
It's probably the size of your pinky nail. Really. Yeah, exactly. Who knows,

Mark Gurman (00:12:03):
Who knows? I guess that's something I should inside

Leo Laporte (00:12:04):
A big plastic case, I guess we could figure it out. Yeah. I,

Mark Gurman (00:12:07):
I mean, honestly, I think they're probably the size of, I mean, I would guess that the M one max is stack the M one ultra is probably the size of an iPhone.

Leo Laporte (00:12:17):
Wow.

Mark Gurman (00:12:18):
Right. Like at the pro probably. Yeah. Because I think, I think an a 14 or an, a 15 on its own is probably about the size. Hmm. I think it's a little bit smaller than the camera bump itself.

Leo Laporte (00:12:31):
Yeah.

Mark Gurman (00:12:32):
So very, just based on the tear downs.

Leo Laporte (00:12:35):
So man, we're just, this is so great. We're getting all the, all this just straight story here. So the other thing I think we thought you obviously didn't, but the rumor mill, which I'm gonna keep you out of thought there'd be a seven K display, which I thought was a strange beast.

Mark Gurman (00:12:55):
That's coming, that's

Leo Laporte (00:12:56):
Coming. That's still coming. Okay.

Mark Gurman (00:12:57):
That's coming. So

Leo Laporte (00:12:59):
Just part of the problem is that no one knows what Apple's gonna release at any given time, but they know what might be in the pipeline.

Mark Gurman (00:13:05):
Right. So the cheaper display, this was actually a pretty quick program. Right. So they started working on that in, I believe, mid 20, 20. Wow. And, and they finished it like probably around mid to end of 2021.

Leo Laporte (00:13:19):
That would kind of explain the, a 13 in it, actually,

Mark Gurman (00:13:22):
That that's exactly why it ex that's exactly. It that's exactly it. So they had that a 13.

Leo Laporte (00:13:27):
That was that generation

Mark Gurman (00:13:28):
20. That was that generation. Right. And they probably figured they didn't need more. So this display was ready to go for a while. And the C concept behind it was to do a display at a third of the price of the pro XDR. And it was developed to go alongside these M one machines. So the MacBook pro the Mac minis and whatnot, and then they're gonna have that seven K to go alongside the Mac pro. So what Apple's doing is they're basically taunting Intel at this point, right? Like Intel held Apple back so significantly. And what they've been able to do in just two, three years now is they've been able to rapidly expand the product line and they're basically doing everything right. They now,

Leo Laporte (00:14:07):
So now we know how big the M one ultra is. It's as big as the middle finger.

Mark Gurman (00:14:11):
It's exactly right. As big as the middle finger. Right. And so in the Mac pro version is, is, is two middle fingers. Yeah. So what you're able to do now is what they're able to do is they're able to put out different Macs, different designs, different styles at different price points. And moving the Mac to Apple, Silicon, I think is one of Apples, huge, greatest to comp

Leo Laporte (00:14:34):
It'll go down in history, honestly bigger than moving to Intel from power PC. Huge. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:14:41):
And the fact that, and the fact that it shares, you know, it shares DNA with the iPhone, the iPad, those new, the new screen, the Apple TV, like, you know, there's a, there's a shared architecture all the way through that entire process. And for, you know, long term development, that that's a huge deal from an efficiency perspective.

Leo Laporte (00:14:59):
Why put the, a 13 in a monitor, is that for center stage and surround sound or do they have higher hopes?

Alex Lindsay (00:15:06):
I sure hope they have higher hopes. I hope I have high hopes for their high hopes because they, because they there's a lot you can do with it with basically an Apple TV inside of a screen. I mean, it's

Leo Laporte (00:15:15):
Faster than the Apple TV 4k. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's the iPhone 11 shows you could,

Alex Lindsay (00:15:21):
You could have, you could play games on it without it connected anything, you could watch movies and a picture and picture, and it wouldn't affect your computer at all. Great. For a picture

Leo Laporte (00:15:28):
And picture. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:15:29):
You could have calls, you know, with it, without the computer on or without the computer needing it. You could, you know, you, but there's also a lot of, you know, tight integration that can happen between all the devices as well, as far as airplay, you could airplay to it without it needing any other device. Right. So

Leo Laporte (00:15:44):
In order to do that though, maybe mark knows something about this. You'd have to put in storage and memory. You can't just put a chip in it. You'd have to, you can't make it at Apple TV without storage. Right. And even now they say to use Siri with it, you have to have a computer attached to it.

Mark Gurman (00:16:00):
Yeah. I mean, I, I'd be very, very surprised if they, I, I don't think Apple's the company at this point, that's gonna come out of left field and say, you can do all these tricks, right. With the monitor, a standalone surprised,

Leo Laporte (00:16:10):
Surprise. Surprise. Yeah. I'm not,

Mark Gurman (00:16:12):
I, I should be completely brutally honest. I'm not optimistic about Apple's ability to pull, you know, you know, cat. So

Leo Laporte (00:16:19):
Why not just put a T2 in there or something? Why why put in all that processor power, maybe they just had a bunch of 'em lying around.

Mark Gurman (00:16:27):
I think so. And that takes me to another point. Like, I think one of the reasons they put the M one and the iPad air is cuz they need to save the eight fifteens for other devices. Right. We are in a chip crunch. Right. And you know, they probably have backlogs of certain chips developed.

Leo Laporte (00:16:39):
They know what chips they have extras of. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Mark Gurman (00:16:42):
Yeah. And the iPhone 11 is, you know, they're sort of slowing down the units that they're selling of that device. Right. They still sell the iPhone 11, I believe on their website, even though they sell the SC. But I think they have plenty of those. A 13 chips also helps with cost efficiency as well. They've been producing the a 13 for, for years now. So obviously economy the scale as you continue to produce the costs come down. So that's why I think they did it.

Leo Laporte (00:17:07):
If that's somebody calling from Cupertino, go ahead. Take that call because if you've got a hot tip, I don't, I don't wanna slow you down. Oh,

Mark Gurman (00:17:13):
That's not, that's not my phone. Oh, okay.

Leo Laporte (00:17:15):
My phone, somebody else's Alex, is your heart broken? I too, I thought an a 13 would be something really

Alex Lindsay (00:17:23):
Well. I thinking we just have to see what happens. I mean, we, we saw the ultra wide band chips in there for a long time, without anybody them on that's, you know, like they, they just go, that's true. We'll put this in. Cuz one of the things you look at when you start putting, when you start putting together a monitor is a, monitor's gonna stay around for a long time. So whatever you want to do with that monitor needs to be in it when it ships, you know, for and available for the next three to five years, you know? So that's not, you know, it's a longer term device. And so they have to think through that as well.

Mark Gurman (00:17:49):
You know, I, I agree. I, I feel like, oh, sorry, go ahead, Andy.

Andy Ihnatko (00:17:52):
No, I was just gonna say, I, I think that it's simpler reasons than that, that they there's some cool features that are kind of require an iPhone to make work. It's very, very easy to make it work. If you just basically take a CPU from there and run the same sort of stack on there. I mean, this, it does have set or stage. I think that's the sort of reason why they're putting that kind of chip in there. We're not gonna know for sure until I fix it. Tears the thing, not, not just the, the tears, the, the case down, but really tears that board down to see as Leo suggested, is there more support hardware attached to this CPU than is simply required just to activate activate really good web, a, a visual processing, really good image processing, really good audio processing and center stage. That's what we'll know if there's future enabled. Otherwise. I really think this is all about giving you the, the best webcam experience, the best chat, the best conferencing experience that you can possibly get.

Leo Laporte (00:18:44):
And again, if you've got 'em in the warehouse use, 'em

Mark Gurman (00:18:47):
True. I completely agree with Andy. I have, I think that's the simplest explanation. Yeah. To me, aside from Alex's very good point about the ultra wide band chips, I think Apple's the type of company that puts out hardware and they move on. Right. I think you, what you see is what you get with the a

Leo Laporte (00:19:01):
13. Yeah. They don't do the, the Google pixel drop thing where, Hey, guess what? We're gonna turn on three new features. They've never done that. I don't think. Yeah. Well, wait a, they've done it for the home pod mini and the home pods haven't they turned on additional features with those. So,

Mark Gurman (00:19:16):
So the home pod mini, this is an interesting one actually has a humidity sensor,

Leo Laporte (00:19:21):
Exactly item. Right.

Mark Gurman (00:19:22):
But they never, they haven't turned it on yet. Yeah. And it's had that sensor in it for two years, so maybe they'll turn it on in a year or so. But you know, and

Alex Lindsay (00:19:30):
Sometimes still, and I think, I think sometimes there's a, they put the hardware in thinking that it was gonna be ready on time, but they're not gonna put anything out just yet because it's not quite ready. And things get rolled out a little bit later. We've definitely seen that in the past.

Mark Gurman (00:19:42):
I, I hope I'm wrong. I would just be shocked if they they added any additional bells and whistles, like from their perspective, $1,600 for that display, it should be pretty bare bone seeing how much the other display is. This

Leo Laporte (00:19:53):
Is so expensive.

Mark Gurman (00:19:54):
And I think, I think the panel in there is essentially the same as the panel in the LG course. It is 2016, of course it's, you know? Yeah. But here's the good news. Not to be a pessimistic, to be an optimistic here. How great is it that Apple is back to making a bunch of max? How great is it that Apple's back to refreshing max cycle at a, you know, appropriate timelines and they're making monitors again? Yeah. It was only five, six years ago when it felt like the Mac was completely dead.

Leo Laporte (00:20:18):
And why did they get outta, why did they get outta monitors?

Mark Gurman (00:20:22):
I think there was a miscalculation inside the company probably around 20 15, 20 16, where they felt like we have the iPad pronoun. We need to focus all of our attention on iPad on the iPhone and really move post, post Mac and PC and sort of turn the PC into trucks. Remember Steve jobs, full ethos about how the PC was eventually gonna become a truck. Yeah. And so they tried to wind things down. They moved to LG for monitors. They MacBook pro was turned into like a disaster of a product. And then their pro audience created a backlash for them. And if pro users are sort of shifting away from max in shifting to Microsoft devices or devices from other companies, they're gonna be exposed to new ecosystems and that's gonna risk Apple ability to keep selling those people, iPhones and AirPods and Apple watches, right. The ecosystems are entire packages together. And if you lose one element of the ecosystem, you risk losing your whole

Leo Laporte (00:21:17):
Ecosystem. Yeah, we did. In fact, we shifted away from Mac pros with the final cut to premiere running on Dell precision works stations. And Microsoft's telling a very good story for developers with WSL and so forth. I, I think that's, that's a very real threat. And I think Apple probably is wise to pay attention.

Alex Lindsay (00:21:33):
Yeah. And, and it, and it affects not just, not just the pro users, but the schools that look at the pro users and the people that see the behind the scenes and the people who, you know, there's all these things.

Leo Laporte (00:21:43):
It trickles down to everything.

Alex Lindsay (00:21:45):
Yeah. Mean

Leo Laporte (00:21:46):
If you lose developers, you lose that apps.

Alex Lindsay (00:21:48):
And I think that Apple constantly is trying, in some cases they've been successful really only with the phone of having a really healthy ecosystem that builds up around the device. So the phone has all these, you know, there's thousands of cases and there's all these little things you can add to it because the market's so big and it's so much the same, you know, it's the same form factor that's there. And I think Apple tries to do this in other areas and have not, has not been super successful. So they, you know, home home kit is a disaster. You know, because people aren't, they're, they're doing what all these other companies do, which is I want to be, I wanna play like every base I can possibly play. So none of it actually works. And so, and then the same way, monitors never really caught up with what a Mac can do. Every monitor I have that I've gotten word, including the LG ones. They're just okay. Like, you're just kinda like you know, and, and there's not anything that really fully leverages the Mac and, and it's always a little, you know, weird. So I think that they had to, they had to come back to, you know, owning the entire ecosystem,

Leo Laporte (00:22:44):
Crazy thoughts. And I've heard other people say it maybe at the, a 13 in that Apple studio monitor for a touch.

Alex Lindsay (00:22:55):
I don't think so.

Leo Laporte (00:22:56):
Yeah. No, you'd have to that. You can't, because you'd have to put, here's a touch in a sensor in the screen.

Alex Lindsay (00:23:01):
Yeah. And you have to change the surface and then you have to, and the big problem is, is that it does so much, you know, like there's, it works well when you put the gorilla glass in, but it touching screens, you know, it's, it's, that's like a, for, for an artist, especially touching their screen is not something that's usually, it's like, it's like, it's like just tapping someone on the forehead over and over and over again, you know? So like artists look at that, like, don't touch my screen. Like, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:23:25):
It's not Renee. Always Renee always said mark, that there were two contingent, two kind of waring factions within Apple, the Johnny I faction, which made the butterfly keyboard and the touch bar and thinner and thinner and lighter and lighter. And then, then, then the old school folks who really said, you know, you can't forget Mac. And that, that, that, that old school, when you look at the MacBook pro 14 inch with its HTM, I port and no touch bar and a giant escape key that looks like that, that old school team won. Is that your sense of what went on or is it a little more complicated than that?

Mark Gurman (00:23:57):
That is, that is that sounds about right. But I think Apple's mistake was letting those be so separate factions within the company. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:24:07):
Right. But it happens all the time. And that's what happens at Google. It's what happened at Microsoft for years.

Mark Gurman (00:24:11):
Right. But Apple has enough money and resources and different types of customers where there's no reason to have that, you know, attitude of a versus B. You need to have both, you need to have a MacBook care for the people who want that design people who don't need the computer for anything more than Facebook and zoom. And then you need to have an option, a MacBook pro for people that need all that stuff. And this is what Apple is doing. What Apple had done five years ago is they had moved entirely into that Johnny ive direction where the MacBook pro was essentially a MacBook air with more premium features tagged on. But now you have a real MacBook pro and you have that MacBook air option for that butterfly keyboards, more futuristic stuff. So it should have always been the case where Apple is offering both simultaneously the customer who wants this, can buy this, the customer who wants that can buy that. And now you have more price points, you have more options for consumers. And I think it's brilliant that Apple realized that they should just be doing both things and offering both and, you know, being there for every customer

Leo Laporte (00:25:20):
As an, as an old school Mac guy. I appreciate it. I'm very, very glad that 

Mark Gurman (00:25:26):
I love this thing. I use the HTMI port on this MacBook pro every week. Interesting. I think Matt safe is great. Yeah. The keyboard is fantastic. I'm glad the touch bar is gone. Yep. I think the display is ridiculously great. I have the 16 inch one, and I love the, I love the big size. This is my main computer. I have not used my iPad pro basically at all, since I've gotten this, the reason I was using my iPad pro lot was because my previous map pro was the Intel 20, 19 16 inch. It's a piece of junk. I think the fans were running. Yeah, no,

Leo Laporte (00:25:58):
I'm serious. It was a very expensive piece of junk. Which many of our employees still have

Mark Gurman (00:26:03):
It?

Leo Laporte (00:26:05):
I agree with you a hundred percent. That's all we

Mark Gurman (00:26:08):
Collecting machine. Well, I, I wanted to work on my lap and I would sometimes have to put a towel over my lap while you, because it would get hot. It's an Intel problem, right? Yeah. The fans always were running like an airplane and bar hap I'm very happy that Apple moved away from Intel. I couldn't have more than 10 Chrome tabs out, been on that Intel machine. Right. Yeah. Whereas what I realized is on the iPad, I can have what, 400 cabs open and it wouldn't blink an eye and this was on a, I never got the M one iPad pro I had the a 12 X or a 12 Z, sorry, MacBook pro the March, the pandemic edition, the 20, 20 March. I had pro with the LIDAR and that thing flew through everything. And so I went almost full time on that until this one pro match

Leo Laporte (00:26:51):
Came up.

Mark Gurman (00:26:51):
Yeah. Because I, the Intel macro pro it was a deterrent to getting my work done. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:26:56):
My poor son has to use one for his TikTok video. I have to get him poor guy,

Mark Gurman (00:27:01):
Poor guy, poor. I remember just, just to keep in context here, we know we're, we know we're talking about $2,000 computers here. We know our audience are people that, you know, understand this. Right. obviously there's a lot other important things going on in the world other than MacBook pro oh processors.

Leo Laporte (00:27:17):
Yes. You know, and we say that the beginning of every show, and I didn't say it this time is the toy store. This is irrelevant compared to the most important things that are going on in the world around us. But Hey, that's, you know, sometimes people come here for refuge from the, the real world.

Mark Gurman (00:27:34):
That's how I always look at it. I, I always look at, you know, I look at this whole business as, as a refuge from, from reality. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:27:41):
We're not talking about real stuff. It's like, and I bet you, you were a, you know, it's like when you're a sports fan, you know, people are going back and forth over, oh my God, Tom Brady, didn't retire as if that's important at all. But if you're, but it's a, it's a way of letting off some steam and having, you know, that's all,

Mark Gurman (00:27:57):
That's, that's all it is. You

Leo Laporte (00:27:58):
Can't suffer 24 7.

Mark Gurman (00:28:00):
We're lucky enough to talk about it. Yes. And our audience is enough to hear about it. Agree. Right. You know, I agree.

Leo Laporte (00:28:06):
We're very refuge. Yeah. That's, that's a really good point, mark. Thank you for saying that. Oh, we have a lot more to talk about. Speaking of suffering, iOS 15 four came out. My new Monterey came out 12.3, but I couldn't get universal control working. I wasactually late today. Cuz I said, I can't come to work without universal control working. It's still not working. I don't know. Maybe, maybe you guys can help you. We're talk about that we have lots more to talk about. It's great to have Mark Gurman here. From Bloomberg the 'Power On' newsletter. I must subscribe. I subscribe and you should all subscribe at Mark Gurman. If you've go got any what's your number one way to get tips. Is it through a DMS on twittter?

Mark Gurman (00:28:50):
Oh, tips on my twittter bio there's information about signaler and telegram. There

Leo Laporte (00:28:59):
You go.

Mark Gurman (00:29:00):
Email and all that.

Leo Laporte (00:29:02):
You probably don't have to solicit tips. No, they, I just come to you.

Mark Gurman (00:29:07):
This is not a solicitation.

Leo Laporte (00:29:10):
Well, it's a forward looking statement. You work for Bloomberg now you gotta pay attention. How has it been going by the way? I think it's been very good for you. Yes.

Mark Gurman (00:29:18):
I love it here. It's an amazing group and the ability to have, you know, like-minded colleagues across the world who I'm able to work with certainly makes things easier and makes things more reliable. I, I love the TV stuff. I love that. I have the flexibility to do things like this. I do a twittter spaces now. Something new I'm oh, nice. A newsletter. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:29:38):
So

Mark Gurman (00:29:38):
Nice. You know what I'm I'm I'm thrilled.

Leo Laporte (00:29:41):
I see your twittter space is set up behind us. You didn't use that for the show today. Your camera and your microphone and all that stuff.

Mark Gurman (00:29:48):
Oh no, this is, this is the this is for radio.

Leo Laporte (00:29:51):
Oh, okay.

Mark Gurman (00:29:52):
My PC and everything.

Leo Laporte (00:29:53):
So, oh, it's a PC would. Nevermind. Yeah. You can't use a PC

Mark Gurman (00:29:56):
On this. I, I knew if I was coming on Mac brick, I needed to bring out the MacBook pro

Leo Laporte (00:30:00):
Pay no attention to this Lenovo Linux desktop. I'm sitting in front of that.

Mark Gurman (00:30:03):
Yeah. What is that? That is that I was gonna ask you. So is that a touch? What's the

Leo Laporte (00:30:07):
Deal? Yeah, it's a touch. So a, when Microsoft came out with the studio, I said, look, this is great. I can have an all in one that has such a steep angle. I can have it in front of me so I can have a big screen. If Apple would make this, I would do it. But they don't. So I mean, guess I could do a visa amount or something, but 

Mark Gurman (00:30:23):
Why is Apple not doing something like that? Here's a funny story. I went, I've probably been to the Apple headquarters. Like, I don't know. I was there a few times for various Apple events. I was inside like a lobby once. And I was in the waiting room in a lobby. Someone had ordered the surface studio. This was five, six years ago ago. And it was like a surface studio. The Microsoft version of you have just sitting there. I was like, Hmm, I guess they wanna see what's going on with that six years later, they still don't have a comparative

Leo Laporte (00:30:49):
Product. And Microsoft fumbled, it they've killed it because they put a really low powered CPU in it because I guess the cost was really that screen. It was a very nice screen, so beautiful. But they, what they should have done is sold this screen standalone, let you run a kn or something. Something more powerful as the desktop. So I banned that cause it really was underpowered. This is a Lenovo caught, basically copy of it. You know, so, and it's running,

Mark Gurman (00:31:14):
Oh, that's the yoga,

Leo Laporte (00:31:15):
It's the, yeah. And it's running Linux by the way. It's not running windows cuz I'm not crazy.

Mark Gurman (00:31:21):
That's a beautiful machine.

Leo Laporte (00:31:22):
I know. I'm very happy. It's perfect for this purpose. I'm not sure I'd want it at home. Although if you're an artist, maybe more like a, that was Microsoft's ideas, more like a drafting table that you could you could draw on. But 

Mark Gurman (00:31:33):
I like the something for everyone approach, right? Yeah. I mean like, well that's what

Leo Laporte (00:31:37):
Pcs are great for,

Mark Gurman (00:31:38):
Right?

Leo Laporte (00:31:39):
Unfortunately. But that's the point of, you know, the PC markets are thousands of manufacturers. You can get any form factor. You want Apple can't do that for obvious reasons. They have to pick and choose. Exactly. let's take a little break. I wanna show you something. Actually our sponsor today is Blueland the future of clean has arrived. Actually. I'm a, I'm kind of a Blueland fanatic. If you meet me on the street, I might pull you aside. I might button hold you and say, have you tried blue land every year, about 5 billion, plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles are thrown away. Single use bottles. You get, you see it, you get your, your cleaning solution and you get your single use bottle and it's done. You throw it out and you get a new one. And if that's not bad enough the solutions inside those bottles are 90% water.

Leo Laporte (00:32:31):
So you are shipping water and plastic bottles and then throwing them out. Blue land helps you stop wasting water, stop throwing out single use plastics. It's a revolutionary refill cleaning system instead. And we have 'em all over the house. This for example, this is the Blueland hand soap. Really nice heavy glass. It has to be heavy cuz you're gonna pump it right. And then to fill it up, I love this. You get little tablets. So you use your water. You don't have to ship the water. And by the way, I got the Christmas tablets at Christmas time and they have great sense, but that's not all Blueland does it all. You buy one bottle, you refill it forever. Here's the let me take these out. These, this is the, the spritz bottle and they have different colors. So you can easily all one from the other.

Leo Laporte (00:33:20):
It's nice to, this is a, by the way, be a great gift house, warming gift bride gift because you know, you need all this stuff when you first set up a house. So this one says bathroom cleaner. So you have the let me find the oh, here they are. These are the these are the little pellets you get these sent out. I actually subscribe. So you get 'em when you need 'em. This is by the way, these are the toilet cleaner ones. These are very, very hot. Oh, here's the little pellets for the, the cleaner. This is how big they are. So you, you fill this up with warm water to the line. You drop this in. You let it fizz for a little bit. Now you've got cleaner and we, you need more. You don't throw the bottle out and this one's a nice, lightweight hard plastic lightweight.

Leo Laporte (00:34:06):
You don't throw the bottle out. You get more tablets. This is the the Blueland toilet cleaner holder. I'll put the toilet cleaner here, this, by the way, people they sell these out so fast. They love these because you just put it in the toilet. It go, go about your other business for a little bit. See these little tablets they fizz for a little while in the toilet, nice lemon scent. And then you just brush it out and it's clean. So it's a really great solution. Get the clean essentials kit that that'll give you everything you need. I have more here. I have a lot of it. The plastic free laundry and dishwasher, tablets. They have something for every inch of your home. Toilet tablet, cleaners are backed by popular demand. They sold out so fast because people say, this is the way.

Leo Laporte (00:34:51):
This is the way here's the dish soap we use. Instead of using the squirter, you shake a little dish, show out, Lisa loves it. And we don't. And the is a nice, hard, rubber container, easy to put in the dishwasher AF in between. And then you refill it with more dish soap. And when they ship it to you, they just ship it like this. After you get the, the container and you just kind of make your own and it's just as good. It's exact it's, it's really exactly the same. What people I didn't realize is you're, you're, you're 90% percent water you're shipping around the country, just so people don't have to put in the dish soap fill these beautiful. So they say Instagramable bottles with warm water pop in one of the hand, soap or spray cleaner tablets within minutes, you have powerful cleaning products.

Leo Laporte (00:35:38):
Great sense. Iris agave, Perine, lemon, lavender eucalyptus for the hand soap. I got the Christmas package. I smell like gingerbread. When I, I love it. I love it. It's so good. They have peppermint. They had gingerbread you'll have to oil that next Christmas for that from their best selling clean essentials kit to their hand soap duo, I actually got two duos. So we could have the hand soap in every at every sink, plastic free laundry and dishwasher, tablets Blueland has something for every inch of your home. It's it's incredible. Blueland stunning high quality forever bottles start at just $10. When you buy a kit, they're meant to be reused forever. So no plastic waste. You gotta try blue land. You'll feel good about it. You'll love it. The planet will. Thank you. It is a much better way of doing this blueland.com/mac break.

Leo Laporte (00:36:29):
You get 20% off your first order right now, if you go to Blueland B L U E L a N d.com/mac break, we really we're really proud and happy to have them as a sponsor. And I really strongly encourage you to take advantage of this 20% off blueland.com/mac break. Let's see, Andy NACO I've heard of him tweet, updated my MacBook, an iPad pro for universal control tonight. I like it so much. I'm forcing myself to leave my desk and go to bed. I'm too excited about doing an actual work session with this setup. And I probably shouldn't stay up until 7:00 AM on a weeknight, but, and then there's a thread, which you didn't even know how long it was gonna be. So everybody says it just works. You just do it. So I update, well,

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:20):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:37:22):
Why not for me? What about me?

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:24):
There's an updated tweet. I, so that was, that was done. Like when I just had like my, my MacBook, my M one MacBook and my M one iPad pro like on a table in my living room. And it was, it was working just as easily as that. And just as quickly as that. So this morning, like I, I left my iPad, my other iPad pro like my gen one, like 2015 to charge. Then this spent this morning, updating it to the least iPad was, could not get it to work on my desk, on my office, desktop. I mean, not good. I think that well, and also, and so I, so I, I was figuring that maybe it's maybe it's because it's the gen one. I know that's, it's compatible to the compatibility list. So I tried, okay, well, at least I'll get my M one working and that doesn't work either.

Andy Ihnatko (00:38:05):
I think right now, the reason why it wasn't working is that I'm, I'm in my office right now. So I have the, my M one MacBook connected to an external monitor to an external display. And with the external display, for some reason is confusing the hell yeah. Out where iPads are and how to connect to them. So I've, so when I, when I disconnect the external display, it works fine. So it's like, okay, that's not ideal. I think maybe I, I should have informed Apple that some people do plug external monitors into laptop computers because it is late 1990s by now 

Leo Laporte (00:38:39):
Well, in their defense, they do say, in fact, it even says on the buttons you, so what we're talking about, universal control you you turn it on, you have to have Monterey 12.3, you have to have iOS or iPad OS 15 four. That was one of the big features in the update. Turns on this thing that they touted last fall, right? Universal control. You can drag your mouth, push. They say, push your mouse through the, to the other screen on the iPad. You're still running iOS, but you can now use your mouse and keyboard with the iPad, push it in the other direction. I don't know what you got over there, but you can it's. Does it work with an I iPhone? I guess presumably it would work with an iPhone. Yes. Don't

Andy Ihnatko (00:39:18):
Know. I don't think so.

Leo Laporte (00:39:19):
Oh, it has to be. So it's an iPad or a Matt. Okay.

Andy Ihnatko (00:39:22):
I, I think so. I'd have to double check, but yeah, but it's, it's a very, when it was working last night, it was a really impressive, it's a cool idea. This experience. It just, it just moves there's in the hesitation. There isn't like a, a twitlight zone moment. It just, it just feels as though it's an external display. You

Leo Laporte (00:39:37):
Do have to enable it on the Mac. As I remember, it's on

Andy Ihnatko (00:39:41):
Both on, on both sides. Both you do have to yeah. The, the, the iPad or whatever the device, it is, it kind of, it just appears under the displays settings panel. So you basically click add a display. It, it will have automatically, oh,

Leo Laporte (00:39:53):
Maybe that's what I didn't do. Okay. Maybe. So I turn now the switches and all three of 'em say beta beta beta. Right? Turn those on. But I have to also select the iMac in the air, in the air.

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:05):
No. And the on, on your, on your Mac, you have to, you have to in displays, it will appear as an option. There'll be a popup list of

Leo Laporte (00:40:12):
See it didn't show up in displays it

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:13):
Didn't then that's it are, you are on the, are you on the exact same, Y find that same

Leo Laporte (00:40:17):
Wifi. I did everything. I switched to the other wifi. I turned off. I have, I use next DNS. I turned that off. I had a iCloud relay. I turned that off. I, I literally spent an hour messing with it this morning. So there's something maybe just not working for me. It's a

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:34):
Wearing be sold shoes.

Leo Laporte (00:40:34):
Yeah. That was the problem. It's the, I'm wearing a white pants after labor day. There you go. That's the, that's the issue. Yeah. I think that it should be clear that this is not sidecar, which allows you to use an iPad as a second display. So it becomes an, a Mac, this, the iPad OS stays the iPad. And so you're just really a sharing a keyboard in mass with two different operating systems in effect, which is kind of interesting,

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:02):
You know, but, but it works extremely well. Like I said, it's not a case of like a, I've a lot of us have using KVMs and whether it's hardware software for, for a long time, it really does feel like you're, excuse me, last night, at least it felt like I was using just one unified workspace to the extent that it, it obviously you can drag things from one device to another. So highlight text and on the iPad, drag it into whatever you want to go. It has a shared clipboard. So you command C on one screen command V on the other one. It's. It really, really works. Well. One of, one of the things that I, this, one of the things I liked, I thought was a really nice touch back before this morning, when the troubles began was that I had accidentally switched it off switched off that feature.

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:44):
And so when I tried to move move my mouse, like back into the iPad, it sort of like stretched a, a screen into it and stopped as if to say, yeah, I see it. I've it's properly configured, but you told me not to use this as a display, so I'm not gonna let that happen. So that's when you go, oh, boom, stupid me. And then make that work. Also, if you, if it falls asleep and you, if it, if it sleeps for some reason and you and you mouse back into it, it will automatically wake the display and reach, start that. So it's some nice stuff. It just has to work like consistently for everybody. I'm, I'm just, I'm so disappointed because I, I, I had, I got a, I have like, if, if I could show you like my, my new setup this morning, I got out like two different, like stands.

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:27):
Just the, just so I've got, I've got this screen looking like Yoda because this big, like blocky thing in the middle and two sticky Audi ears on the side, and I'm like, oh, this was gonna be so cool. Because it really what's the use. So what's the use case. The use, the use cases for me, I could immediately see like like in a show like this, I also need to sort of keep an eye on a couple of things. Like I, if there's, if there's an emergency that comes in through slack or through disor or through messages or through email, I'm not gonna bail out of the podcast, but I at least want to take five seconds, say, hi, I'm in a podcast, but I'm on top of this. I'll get to, I'll get to that immediately. Or if there's a breaking news thing that I know is gonna be, is gonna change my afternoon, it's for me, it would be a perfect place to put those sort of incidental incidental apps,

Leo Laporte (00:43:15):
IRC running, say, or discord running in the iPad and still have my, all my work stuff

Andy Ihnatko (00:43:21):
Set up. And, and it's also, and it's also gonna be killer for travel. I mean, I think the thing is I wouldn't be as excited about this if if being able to use the iPad as an external display worked properly, which it just so totally does not sidecar side car. I'm sorry. I can never remember that that correctly, because it, it always screws up. It never reconnects correctly. And then it keeps like regathering windows in a very, very strange and bizarre way when it accidentally disconnects. And it gets me so frustrated that I can't, whatever time it's gonna save me by having an external display, like in my hotel room, it lose. I lose that in the time I'm gonna have to take, to reset my workspace cuz it decided that, oh, I bet he didn't want these windows where he, where, where they originally were. I'm just gonna Dogpile them all into one big lump. But it's, it's really, it's very, very, very, very lot of potential there. When it, if it's gonna work for me, I'm going to really, really enjoy it. Because like I said, like I said, last night I could E I've got I, I, I'm trying to get to bed before 2:00 AM every night for the first time, since I was like

Leo Laporte (00:44:22):
15, I think I failed to select this. So this is the display that you will see on your Mac. This is the display's control panel. And under ad display, by the way, sidecar still works. This is for Mac rumors. You'll see your sidecar displays where it says mirror or extend to, but you'll also see a new entry link, keyboard and mouse, and that's the universal control. So maybe I might have hustled. They, they don't really give you a step by step on how to do this. There's a number of things you have to do. You have to enable it. You have to make sure you're on the same iCloud account. The same wifi account Bluetooth has to be turned on. It's

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:00):
They did really, they did release a video, but it's one of those, Hey, every everything's gonna work perfectly. There's no need for us to tell you how to troubleshoot everything because there's no chance whatsoever. This is not gonna work. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:45:09):
So I don't have to do anything on the iPad, but Bluetooth, wifi and handoff all have to be turned on.

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:16):
You do, you do have to enable something in in the iPad, but it's on by default. It was on by default for me when I, when I installed 12.4 I think it's in like sharing,

Leo Laporte (00:45:27):
But presumably once you've got all turned on, yeah, it's on just work.

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:31):
It's, it's under, I it's under airplane and airplane and handoff in settings. You make sure the cursor and keyboard right. Parentheses beta is switched on and that's it.

Leo Laporte (00:45:39):
Right. It's a good example of Apple using a, a variety of technologies that they've been building in over time to do something cool and interesting.

Alex Lindsay (00:45:48):
Yeah. And, and for someone like me, I mean, I have, I have multiple, you know, I have no, not, not yet. I have to admit that I'm so I'm still UN you're slowing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well also I, I got into synergy and I was like, okay, this is much better than KBM. Oh, right. And then, you know, I trashed my, one of my M ones and I'm still trying to get it to work. Right. It's never been the same. And so it was the synergy just, just drove it into the ground. And so I've literally never seen a Mac damaged so badly ever. Because I, Dr. You know, like it was, you

Leo Laporte (00:46:18):
Can't just rebuild it and it all

Alex Lindsay (00:46:19):
Works again. No, I'm, I rebuilt it and it's still funky, you know, I'm still, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to grind it all the way down, but it's, it's the yeah, I'm trying to do firmware updates now. That's the next thing. And I don't have a lot of time to work on it. So just sits there right now, waiting for me to get back to it because it's a lot of work. What happened was I dragged a hard drive and I was like, I'll just get it over to the corner here. And it just got a little over the edge between two computers and it went into a race condition where literally I could restart it, plug hardware into the computer and it still couldn't see it like this keyboard mouse wouldn't work on the web. I'm like, gosh, Siri. So anyway, but she sees serious

Leo Laporte (00:46:57):
Wants to help it, trying to

Alex Lindsay (00:46:59):
Help. I bound to help on the web anyway. So so I was like, well, we have to take synergy off of everything and never use it again. And so, so I'm using KB, I'm back to KBM, waiting for this to kind I'm. And because of my synergy experience, I'm kind of like, I'm gonna wait for a little while and just see of what happens and just stay with my KBM. But I'm super excited about it actually, you know, working with my studio, I'll have, you know, three Mac minis and you know a Mac studio all on my desk and I've got lots of monitors. And so it's just a matter of

Leo Laporte (00:47:28):
Being able to figure out where they all go. Hey, synergy. No, I thought maybe that, maybe that was, I think Siri was just worried. She, she was worried about me, so, sorry. Well now I, now I want to go home right now. Go ahead, mark. Yeah,

Mark Gurman (00:47:43):
I've got a question for, for, for Andy. So let's say you have an iPad with a mouse connected or a ma an iPad and a magic keyboard with the track pad. Can you use that to control the Mac over universal control or is it only in the other direct

Leo Laporte (00:47:56):
It's supposed to go both ways? Isn't it? I remember seeing a demo that it went both ways. Yeah. Yeah. It,

Andy Ihnatko (00:48:05):
It, I did. I do. I did see that in the demo, everything that I've been trying has been there is one Mac that access sort of the truth for the entire network. And then that extends everything else. I have. I haven't, I haven't started, I haven't started really abusing it yet. Partly because my, my failure this morning, I, for one, for one thing, one thing I wanna know is that let's say that I'm in a coffee shop and my wifi I've there. And both my, my MacBook and my iPad are both connected to the Starbucks wifi, but I'm connecting through a, through a VPN will that St will they still be able to talk to each other because wifi, even if you have your Mac connection, max connection to the internet and the rest of your home network or office network via ethernet, you still have to have that wifi connection for it to reach out and find other compatible devices and connect to them. So I don't know whether that would still work with a VPN. I don't even necessarily know if it will work, work well over a public wifi. So there's still things I need to, I think everybody's gonna try to start beating up on it beta or no, to, to find as failure points.

Mark Gurman (00:49:03):
Here's another question. So let's say you're using a Mac track pad to control an iPad, and you wanna do the iPad adjust. Oh, do you do the iPad gesture or do you the Mac gesture to

Andy Ihnatko (00:49:12):
You're the iPad it's been, right? It, it depends. The truth is where is where the mouse pointer is when you move the mouse pointer into the iPad, for instance, the Mac you bar dims out the, the cursor for the iPad turns into the iPad cursor. And now any gesture that you make on the magic track pad or on your MacBooks track pad is pinch pinch, pinch, and zoom, a pension stretch worked perfectly fine. All the three, all the multiple multiple fingertip features work perfectly fine. It really is it the, the track pad turns into the screen of the iPad in terms of input.

Mark Gurman (00:49:42):
Got it. Cool. I'll have to give it a shot. It's surprising that I haven't tried it. But

Leo Laporte (00:49:49):
I imagine, I don't know, but I imagine like Renee that you're on betas of everything. And so it's a little tricky for you to do stuff like this

Mark Gurman (00:49:57):
Time is limited, right?

Leo Laporte (00:49:58):
Yeah.

Mark Gurman (00:49:59):
So much going on. I, I mean, I just,

Leo Laporte (00:50:01):
It's one of the reasons I don't do the Mac OS and IPA OS betas or iOS betas is cuz I want to kind of experience it as, as a normal human would,

Andy Ihnatko (00:50:11):
You know, my, my problem with, so this is, this is one of the features I've been sorely looking forward to for an entire year. And unfortunately the only Mac that I owned that was compatible with this was the only M one Mac. The only Mac that I have that is like less than five years old. Well that's and I could not jeopardize it with a developer developer preview

Leo Laporte (00:50:28):
Of anything somebody responded to your tweets. Well, I can't get a running on my 5k. 2014. 5k iMac. No you can't because you need Monterey 12.3 to do this. And I have several, in fact, it's really Apples way, nudging us to all get Mac studios. You really would be much happier if you only had a Mac studio, my office computer, can't go to Monterey. Lisa's computer at home. Can't go to Monterey. So that's two Mac studios. We've purchased. Mark. Do you have a Apple? Does Apple give you review? No, they probably you're probably persona on grata there. Right?

Mark Gurman (00:51:02):
I don't know if I'm persona on grata. I don't have any review unit it to the new stuff. I also haven't asked for any reviewing TV.

Leo Laporte (00:51:10):
I don't bother asking cuz I know they wouldn't so I don't bother. Oh, that's funny. So I just buy it. I just buy it. I don't mind. I'm made of money. Here's a question I got of money. I don't need,

Mark Gurman (00:51:21):
I don't need the max studio. How much, how much of people's willingness to purchase a Mac studio is based on the name. What if they call the Mac mini Mac mini?

Leo Laporte (00:51:29):
No, studio's a much better name. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Less. I agree.

Mark Gurman (00:51:32):
It's less sexy. Right? And so it's

Leo Laporte (00:51:33):
Like, studio's a good name. I

Mark Gurman (00:51:35):
Think it's their naming. It's their marketing. That's really solid. When

Leo Laporte (00:51:38):
Did you hear the word studio?

Mark Gurman (00:51:41):
What do you mean?

Leo Laporte (00:51:41):
Like the day you, you reported the rumor the day before? So,

Mark Gurman (00:51:45):
Oh, a few days before,

Leo Laporte (00:51:47):
A few days before. See my it's my theory. And again certainly don't want to get you in touch with anybody. And I am not in any way. I have no knowledge of how anybody works in this field, but it's my sense that there, you know, you hear stuff about stuff in production. You always have to say, well, is that gonna be released? And is it gonna be released when, and, and then, you know, like the Apple car or, you know, I don't know, when's that gonna come out? And, but then there's also a, especially as you get really close to an event, like a couple of days before they had to bring in third party contractors, people like Alex to shoot all of that stuff. I don't think Apple, Alex, Apple doesn't do that stuff in house. No, they bring in people for that.

Alex Lindsay (00:52:29):
I think they have, they have a lot of, I mean they

Leo Laporte (00:52:31):
Talked about, did you do it all in house now?

Alex Lindsay (00:52:32):
They've talked about it in the past. They do a lot of it in house. They have their own studios for their commercials.

Leo Laporte (00:52:37):
Well, that would be a reason to do it because you can control your employees and Parties. That's why they

Mark Gurman (00:52:42):
Do that. Well, it's also cheaper, right? It's also cheaper and

Alex Lindsay (00:52:46):
I don't think cheap, cheaper, unless you do

Leo Laporte (00:52:49):
20 events a year. It's not cheaper because you got all these people sitting around.

Alex Lindsay (00:52:54):
No, no, no, but they're doing, but no, you gotta get those studios. You could use studios like that for a lot of things, all your, you know, there's lots of communication that goes out from, from Apple that isn't a keynote, you know, so studio can generate content for a lot of

Leo Laporte (00:53:06):
Things. Steve jobs, Apple built. And I worked in it. So I, I know it exists right next to the original campus at Apple TV studio, which they sold, they got rid of, they didn't use it. They leased it out because there wasn't enough business to keep all those technicians busy.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:22):
But, but that pre-video, that was the pre video is the future kind of world

Leo Laporte (00:53:27):
Know. Now we show there in 1994, right. For CNBC because Gina Smith and I, because and Jim Leck, because the Apple wasn't using it in fact

Alex Lindsay (00:53:37):
CK, but now, but

Leo Laporte (00:53:38):
Now the had moved in there.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:39):
There's a huge amount of content that's created for YouTube. That's created for internal communication.

Leo Laporte (00:53:44):
You'd created,

Alex Lindsay (00:53:44):
That's

Leo Laporte (00:53:45):
Why the

Alex Lindsay (00:53:45):
External communications. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:53:46):
Yeah. There's,

Alex Lindsay (00:53:47):
There's a lot of people

Leo Laporte (00:53:48):
Know. Yeah. Okay. So maybe, maybe I just thought, you know, there's gonna be some, there's some sound guy

Alex Lindsay (00:53:55):
It's different nose.

Leo Laporte (00:53:56):
You saw the studio said it's called the studio. It's gonna, yeah. You know?

Alex Lindsay (00:54:00):
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, is that when you have a live stage event the, the, that that's much harder because you have rehearsals and so on and so forth that are going on. All interesting for the, you know, so, so that's because that's typically for most companies that is an external company that comes in and does your stage stuff, that's a specialty that you don't want to keep. That truly is something that you don't wanna keep on staff. So you hire, you know, it's a broadcast truck and it's a thing and a thing, you know, like there's a, there's a whole bunch of stuff that comes in for, and this is for not just, this is for Apple or Google or Facebook or anybody. Microsoft. Yeah. You know, so, so they'll, they'll do that now. That's where a lot of rumors can happen.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:37):
Because it's very porous. I mean, like if you go to, if you, if you go to a some of these, they give you stickers that you have to put on top of your phone, you know, on, on your you know, the camera different, different companies will put on, but you're like, well, you ask for one phone, you put one sticker on who says the person doesn't have like three phones, you know? And so, so the thing is, is it's just, it's absurd. It does. What it does do is it does tell the crew, Hey, we're looking for those stickers. If you pick up your phone and look like, and we don't see a sticker, we're, we're gonna be upset, but, but that's where things start to happen. And, and I think that usually you're are working with trusted contractors. A lot of these companies won't work with contractors. They don't trust. And as a contractor, you know, it's pretty much the end of your business with that company, if something gets out. So you're, most of the contractors stay pretty tight, but everybody, you know, worries about that. But I think that that's where you see more leaks is when you're doing a live event, Apple's not doing those. So those are recorded all in a studio, interesting studios. Yeah. That they can, and then they're played out. Yeah. You know, they're playing 'em out. So yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:55:31):
So who did this set? This is a set. You you'll recognize this from the section whether he showed how creatives were using the studio, because now I might be wrong, but look at very closely at this plant. I think that's in a Mac pro pot. I think that's a repurposed. Am I wrong? Oh, there's I think that's a rep repurposed Mac pro. It depends. Does, does it look like it's overheating? Look at, look at the bottom. That's that's the giveaway. If am I wrong? It's a little, yeah, that that's, that's

Alex Lindsay (00:56:06):
A little Easter egg,

Leo Laporte (00:56:08):
But it's kind of a funny, I can see Apple throwing that in. Just haha. Remember that? Yeah. We found a good use for it. Just to hollow it out.

Alex Lindsay (00:56:18):
Oh man.

Leo Laporte (00:56:19):
That's it does though. When you look at this and you look at that and you look at how big that studio is harsh, that really is a fat boy. Look at that thing. Yeah. That is a chubby hubby.

Alex Lindsay (00:56:28):
That's really that really IST. That's harsh. That's harsh. That's like a wow figure and make a planter out of your own. But,

Leo Laporte (00:56:37):
But I might be wrong. I don't know. I saw this UN Reddit. I thought that does look like a Mac pro I anyway, so oh, I have so many things I want to ask mark. 

Mark Gurman (00:56:49):
Let's go. Let's do it.

Leo Laporte (00:56:50):
Let's okay. And you just, if I don't want to, you know, if don't wanna jeopardize your sources or anything, obviously what do you think of this Ming cheat quote guy though. Really? Sorry. Well Forget I said that. No, you can go ahead. Go ahead. Answer if you want. I just,

Mark Gurman (00:57:08):
He's not my source, right?

Leo Laporte (00:57:09):
No, I know he is not, but yeah, respect.

Mark Gurman (00:57:13):
I, I tend to respect everyone in

Leo Laporte (00:57:15):
The you would never say anything he is saying today that Apple has to must, must reorganize its Apple car team. If they wanna meet their 20, 25 production goal.

Mark Gurman (00:57:29):
It's funny cuz I wrote those exact words in January. Oh yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:57:33):
Really.

Mark Gurman (00:57:34):
Well, what happened was, is Apple had this Apple car management team that it built up under Doug field and they sort of built it up and everything was fine until the end of 2019. It was pretty stable. And then this management team, I think 10, 15 people under Doug field, Doug field was the head of engineering for Elon Musk, Tesla. He oversaw Google programs for model three and a few other of their products,

Leo Laporte (00:58:03):
Big acquisitions,

Mark Gurman (00:58:05):
Big hire for Tesla at the time. Right. And then big hire for Apple

Leo Laporte (00:58:08):
To get him back he's yeah. Get him

Mark Gurman (00:58:10):
Back. And over the course of 2020 into, of, over of, of cross 20, 20 and 2021, nearly every single leader and the Apple car team left over that two year span, right? The entire leadership team, right? The entire top layer of the Apple car program in Apple left the company over a two year period, including field himself for Ford. A few of those people actually went to flying car or flying taxi startups. And you know, my joke is I guess they find it more likely that they'll be able to release a flying car than an Apple car, right. That dries on the wheels. So they are having a, make it break it type, make it or break it type of year where they need to figure out who is going to run different teams. Who's gonna be in charge of this thing. It's basically now the second layer of the company has become the top player, right?

Mark Gurman (00:59:06):
It's like a full, full succession, right. They wiped out the whole, the whole management team. Now everyone has stepped up. It's run now by Kevin Lynch who ran watches. He's the only guy at Apple who from start to finish developed an entire new operating system, entire new product, being the Apple watch in watch OS. So, you know, the watch watch OS the Apple watch. It's pretty mature. It's pretty successful at this point. Right. And so I guess the be is that if he did that, he can do what he did for watch for cars. Obviously a car and a of watch is two completely different beasts. I think they'll probably need to get some you know, classic car people in there too, to them out

Leo Laporte (00:59:47):
Best, best guest. Do you think they're actually gonna build a car?

Mark Gurman (00:59:50):
Absolutely. Yeah. My best guess is they will announce a car probably between 2025 and 2026. That's

Leo Laporte (00:59:58):
That's crazy.

Mark Gurman (00:59:58):
Zero doubt. And that's something has changed in the last hour. I'm pretty certain that they'll come to conclusion that they're gonna do this.

Alex Lindsay (01:00:08):
Wow. I think what's, what's interesting is, is also the, the changing role of a car, you know, for, for a lot of people in the sense that when you're trying to build something for two or three years in, you know, if they look at kind of the pulse of what people want you. And I think that what looked when Waymo did something without a driver's seat, you know, it looked crazy. I know that what the market that I'm in is I want a box that drives by itself and has things that I can do inside of it. I don't really, I don't wanna drive. I don't wanna sit anywhere that's driving. I don't want to have any of those things. And so it'll be, and I, when I talk to people, they're like, oh yeah, that's what I want you. So, so I think that it's, it's an interesting, you know, it's interesting puzzle to try to figure out where it's going.

Leo Laporte (01:00:46):
It's, it's a moving target though. You admit, and, and what you want is not necessarily,

Alex Lindsay (01:00:50):
No, but it's when you're not driving, when you're not driving, why would you like if you're building a, because

Leo Laporte (01:00:56):
I'm terrified and I, I wanna, I wanna calls it an O shoot handle. Not exactly that, but I, I want a way to I want a button to disengage. I want something I don't want to end up in a container ship on the way to China.

Mark Gurman (01:01:16):
It's, it's very scary. Self-Driving stuff, Tesla, autopilot. I mean, oh, it's

Leo Laporte (01:01:21):
Terrify

Mark Gurman (01:01:21):
To time. My

Leo Laporte (01:01:22):
Hands are on that wheel. That's very terrible. The, they, I mean, they say they want you to, but even with, with the, on my ma I'm getting the blue crew, which is Ford's hands off, you know, I'm gonna keep my finger kind of there just in case I'm and I'm not gonna lo go read a book. I'm gonna be kind of scanning at all times. I don't do

Mark Gurman (01:01:42):
You do have the full FSD or just the standard on a pilot on the Tesla?

Leo Laporte (01:01:47):
I, I no longer have a Tesla. And so I, oh, I no longer have experiences. FSD. I have a Mae, a Ford Mustang Mae, which

Mark Gurman (01:01:54):
How is that? I'm seeing all over LA

Leo Laporte (01:01:56):
Beautiful. Yeah, they're beautiful. They're great. They're basic. I had a model X which I traded in for this basically. And I it's basically their model X but it doesn't have S FSD and, and Ford and GM say, we're not gonna do FSD. In fact, they're the blue crews and the, and GM's version of that only work on highways. They've already scanned. They don't work on city streets. They're very cautious. As you know, they probably should be. That's where, where Elon has an advantage. He's willing to play a little fast and loose.

Mark Gurman (01:02:30):
Yeah. He's not, he's not conservative

Leo Laporte (01:02:31):
At all. He can roll through stop signs until they tell him not to. 

Mark Gurman (01:02:35):
So that that's, it's, it's crazy because like on the auto, on, on the Tesla, it just rolls through the stop side, right?

Leo Laporte (01:02:43):
The end and Mitsy is making them turn that off. By the way, you're gonna get an update. Sorry. This

Mark Gurman (01:02:49):
Doesn't doesn't make, it doesn't make any sense to me. It

Leo Laporte (01:02:51):
Actually makes sense to me the role, because you would do that. I mean, it's illegal. And if you get a ticket, even if your Tesla doesn't, but if the Tesla knows there's nobody else it can see, why should I come to a full stop? I'm not gonna slow down. I'm gonna just pause, but I'm not gonna come to a full stop cuz there's nobody here. I can see that.

Mark Gurman (01:03:10):
Oh, I see. I see.

Leo Laporte (01:03:12):
I see. So that's when it doesn't Musk

Mark Gurman (01:03:13):
Is just making his own rules.

Leo Laporte (01:03:15):
That's the problem. It's

Alex Lindsay (01:03:18):
It's technical. Yeah, stop. You know, like it is, it is a California stop, like it's so we

Leo Laporte (01:03:22):
Were in California. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:03:24):
See, that's the, that's the problem with machine learning. It only, it, it will pick up every single proclivity of the humans, human data set that's providing it. So basically if it learns how to drive from people who also don't look to see if there's a bicyclist coming before they roll through a stop sign, then all self driving cars will to see if there's a bicyclist.

Leo Laporte (01:03:41):
That's exactly what the complaint was and why NITZY changed. It is pedestrians of bicyclists. The car is known to miss. I mean, I've seen videos of the car actually, of a Tesla veering toward a bicyclist. Yeah. So this is not, this is not a solved.

Andy Ihnatko (01:04:01):
Yeah. It's I just, I just really am offended by how absolutely what, what disregard for for, for proper testing Tesla has. Yeah. And, and all of, and all of their products, because they're, there are things that they're supposed to do when they operated, when they're operating in California, they're not supposed to, to enable full self-driving at all, without getting permit from, from an office in the California state government. They're also the one they're also the one company that's doing self-driving and, and a high level assisted self assisted driving. That seems to think that cameras are the only thing that you absolutely need, which is great if they figured out something that absolutely nobody else in the entire industry theoretical and practical have, have figured out, but it actually looks more like they are trying to convince themselves of something the guess that they made five years ago and trying to stick with it when actually it's not gonna work. And this, this is why I, I trust so many other companies so much more than I trust Tesla because they, if they're playing fast and loose on these things that are so easy to comply with, I have Absolut no faith whatsoever that they're gonna work all that hard to make sure that they get to that final critical 2%. That's gonna be the difference between a, a faith, a faith filled and trustworthy and safe self-driving experience. And one, that's just good enough that you can charge someone a thousand bucks a month for it.

Alex Lindsay (01:05:17):
Well, but, and, and what I'm saying that number one is, I'm not saying that I would be ready to have a self-driving cart today, but what I'm looking, what Apple, what Apple has to do is look four years out. If we look forward four years back and assume that we have trajectory of four years out, you're gonna get to a point where, especially if Apple's doing an Apple, probably a little bit more risk adverse than Tesla, that, you know, we're gonna end up with something that, that may not work everywhere, but will work in a lot of places. And the, the, and again, I, you know, I don't see myself in my, in my future doing any significant travel if I don't, if, if I have to drive, like it's just a waste of time. So, so the so the so, you know, until it starts to normalize again, and I, and I think that there's a precipice 20, 26 to 2030, that statistically it'll be safer to be in a self-driving car than a, have a person drive it. I mean, from the average person, I mean, you, you know, I I'm, I'm when I drive on the highway, you see people, you know, they're on a cell phone eating a big Mac while driving, you know, it's not that much safer than well, that computers, the only job is to do this.

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:17):
Yeah. Without, without turning this into self self-driving week a weekly the, there, the other, there, there's an interesting field of opinion that says that there're gonna be limits to how much CLO, how much more safe a self-driving car system can be over humans chiefly because when a self-driving car performer and will will, will cite federal safety guidelines. That basically say that 97% of all traffic accidents are driver fault accidents. But the thing is it doesn't factor in why did that person make the wrong decision? And a lot of people who are experts on how traffic is set up, how streets are set up, how cities are set up are saying that sign is bonkers. The way that streets are laid out is bonkers. That there's so many instances in which you would be very, very hard pressed to make the right decision more than 80% of the time.

Andy Ihnatko (01:07:09):
And when you make the wrong decision, you don't necessarily always get into a wreck. So basically you're gonna be putting these self-driving car systems into the same failed infrastructure with bad signs, signs, it knock down signs that are being covered by branches intersections, where it is. No, there's a, there's a sign that says clearly what you're supposed to do when you come to the stop line, but the layout of the road, doesn't make it clear that this is a right hand turn or whether this road is just sort of forking off to one, one side. So what, what light are you stopping for? What light are you turning for? So there there's a whole lot left to be proven about this technology. And so that's why I'm, I'm never, I'm not really very bullish on it right now, because right now we're at the mercury there's mercury, Gemini, Apollo. We are barely in, at the start of mercury, maybe in the middle of mercury. We are a long way from London on the moon. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:08:00):
Mark, is there a reason they have a basketball next to your name on Apple track.com? Is that, is that your official logo?

Mark Gurman (01:08:08):
That's funny slip basketball, right? I tweet a lot about the Lakers, the NBA, by the way, the Lakers are big disappointment. I can't get over.

Leo Laporte (01:08:16):
Have you seen the have you seen winning time yet on HBO? All about the, oh,

Mark Gurman (01:08:20):
I haven't had a Chance's on my, I wanna watch it. It's good, Adam.

Leo Laporte (01:08:24):
Yeah. It's an Adam McKay, you know, style thing. They break the fourth wall. The time they stop and explain things, but I'm really enjoying it. It's pretty good. Yeah. It's all about the eighties Lakers, the magic Johnson era.

Mark Gurman (01:08:36):
I will prioritize magic Johnson. What a guy. I I ran into him once at a burger shop in LA and he just, everyone, he would just take the time for everyone to take a picture. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:08:47):
Everyone, that's

Mark Gurman (01:08:47):
Neat.

Leo Laporte (01:08:47):
Guy's

Mark Gurman (01:08:48):
Amazing. And he's, he's not like he has a, you know, an montage or bodyguards behind him. It's just, everyone loves magic. Yeah. In LA I I'm sad. He, you know, walked off on the Lakers a couple years ago, but he got us, LeBron James, and maybe he'll be back.

Leo Laporte (01:09:02):
It's pretty much at least so far. And they've only, I think I've only seen two episodes cuz it's low. You know, it's a week by week thing from HBO, but it's pretty much about Jerry bus, about him buying it from cook and dying team and, and turning it around. And so I think it's fascinating if you're a Lakers fan. I think you, it's a, probably a must a must seem, I

Mark Gurman (01:09:22):
Guess someone else needs to buy the Lakers down because they're a dying

Leo Laporte (01:09:25):
Team again. Oh my

Mark Gurman (01:09:26):
God.

Leo Laporte (01:09:27):
Hey, you know yeah. I just anyway, 86.4% on Apple track.com. You used to you, you were a little higher. It goes up and down all the time.

Mark Gurman (01:09:35):
I think that's a little low, to be honest with

Leo Laporte (01:09:37):
You. I think you deserve more. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:09:39):
It should be a hundred percent.

Leo Laporte (01:09:40):
A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. You were right on the monitor. You were right on the studio. I don't know some of these, there's a, there's a, I guess the hourglass means it remains hasn't happened. Seen, yeah. You got a lot of remains to be seen, which to me is a very good indicator of how prescient you are. How good your sources are you named Mar you named March 8th. When, when, when, when Garman says March eighths, then we go, okay, it's March eighths. We knew that. And I'm, I'm excited. So what do you think for WWDC? You think that's when they'll announce the M two MacBook here

Mark Gurman (01:10:23):
It's those machines are supposed to come out between may and June. Right? So, you know, I'm making the leap here saying that. I think that it'll probably be announced at WWDC, right? I mean, if you can hold off three weeks to announce it,

Leo Laporte (01:10:36):
You might as well. And why not?

Mark Gurman (01:10:37):
Yeah. Might as well, but it maybe been a few weeks before, maybe a few weeks after

Leo Laporte (01:10:41):
A peak at a Mac pro like stay tuned, guys. It's coming. No, you wouldn't wanna do that. Cuz you'd kill sales of the studio. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:10:51):
I don't know. Originally their plan was to announce the back pro at WWDC, but if they shifted away from the M one core, right. For the Mac Corps, an M two core, right. Maybe it's something they preview in the fall and release early next year.

Leo Laporte (01:11:04):
M two's interesting with, with,

Mark Gurman (01:11:05):
With the iMac pro

Leo Laporte (01:11:06):
I think it I'm wondering if they, you know, they didn't say a word about M two. Did you think they might March eighths?

Mark Gurman (01:11:14):
I think it was a PO I thought it was a possibility because from what I've seen, what they're doing now is they're testing the M two Mac chips against all the apps in the Mac app stores. What they do before these computers come out is they, is they do testing.

Leo Laporte (01:11:30):
Yeah. We've seen it on geek bench, right? Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:11:32):
Available apps. And so I have seen from a few developers reached out to me to let me know that they have started seeing the M two chip in their, in their analytics logs. And the M two chip in the developer logs is exactly what I reported would be a year and a half ago, which is it's an eight core CPU the same as today. And then up to a 10 core GPU. So up to two additional core on the GPU now with binning and different configurations that might fall down to nine. But it's basically an eight core CPU, 10 core GPU a little bit faster on the CPU side. And the main change is moving from an a 14 infrastructure to an a 15.

Leo Laporte (01:12:06):
I, I I'm concerned that my cons confuse customers. We spend a lot of time talking about why the M two, the initial M two release is more like the initial M one release than it is like a higher end M one people might kind of say, oh, but that's the next generation. So it's gonna be faster and better. And I think that might be a little confusing to people where, you know, they've been building up, up, up, and now we're gonna take a steps down and go back up, up, up, up, up that's that to thing that Intel does. And I'm wondering if that, and that's

Mark Gurman (01:12:33):
Where Apples were marketing will have to come in and they

Leo Laporte (01:12:35):
Really have to

Mark Gurman (01:12:36):
Sell it, do some heavy lifting. Yeah. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:12:38):
Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:12:38):
Because you know, maybe, you know what, just, maybe they call the what's actually from a technical perspective at M two. Maybe they call that an M one X.

Leo Laporte (01:12:49):
Yeah. That's, that's what I would do. S yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:12:52):
Or something we

Leo Laporte (01:12:53):
Know it's an, a 15, but don't, if you're calling M two, this that's one better than an M one. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:12:58):
I still think they call it the M two, but definitely you raise a really nice point. And it would, I think either way would, would make sense. Yeah. In the past they've, they've, they've had this situation where they've had like an a, you know 14 X, right. Or an a 12 X or an a 10 X. Right. So they've done the Xs before yeah. To sort of differentiate,

Leo Laporte (01:13:20):
So yeah. Yeah. You

Mark Gurman (01:13:21):
Shall see, right. You know, Apple gets the big bucks for their marketing pros. Right. So we'll see what they come up with and how they phrase it

Leo Laporte (01:13:27):
All. They're very good at that. Among other features in the new iOS, 123 new email emoji designs this is from emoji troll the troll. There's like a whole bunch over, and there's a troll, there's a troll. You need a troll. Yeah. We had a troll, there's a troll there's lips that are going, I don't know, what are they doing? They're biting, they're biting the, is that, that kind of sexy lips. There's there's magic beans. There's pregnant men, which would take beans there wow. There's some weird stuff. I like the melting emoji, like the melting happy face, like, Hmm. Yeah. That's the, that's the ketamine emoji or something. I don't know what that is.

Andy Ihnatko (01:14:11):
I, I, I always, I always think that updates to emojis is such a great insight into how the world society is changing. Yes. We always that it's, it's the only, it's one of the few true international languages and that they're designed to communicate concepts and ideas to the exact same audience through the exact same medium. And so when you see things like all of the, all of the internal debate that went down to went down to what's been referred to as the pregnant man emoji of course conservative websites were all like, oh, see there, this that's the clueless, clueless tech, liberal tech people are trying to enforce. There will it's it's there, I don't know if you've read all the, all a conversation that went, went in on the, on the commission about that. Yeah. Cause

Leo Laporte (01:14:55):
We should say Apple does not decide this. This comes from the right. Exactly. Unicode consortium, right. From the emoji pan, you know, commission. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:04):
And they, they actually, but they can

Leo Laporte (01:15:05):
Customize them. Yes. All they get is a verbal description and a suggestion, and then they make it, their, the

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:11):
Person, this is, this is exactly why they, they, they came up with this new addition because after the, after the first wave of emoji, once they come out with standards, one of the standards that they, that they defined was that there are no men or women emoji, there are people emoji, and then male or female it's

Leo Laporte (01:15:28):
Pregnant, pregnant person. Right. So, so

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:30):
Yeah. So, so someone pointed out pointed out that, well, gee, we have pregnant women, which is one of the reg one of the original emoji, what do we do about this? Do we, do we officially codify this as an exception to that rule? Do we expand the rule? Do we, do we redefine it as person with expanded belly? And that's. And so it was, it was, it was approved

Leo Laporte (01:15:48):
As much as it was approved in 20, 21, September as per of emoji 14. And, and, and Emojipedia is quick to point out. Sometimes used, I gesture to represent feeling too full after, over eating, as in a food baby here's Apple's rendition. Yeah. I, I Googles

Alex Lindsay (01:16:06):
I thought it was like, I, twittter never thought I was like, I have deli

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:09):
Belly

Leo Laporte (01:16:09):
Deli, belly, beer, belly. I'll be using that emoji a lot. I that's gonna be a big one for me. They've changed they've added some new smiley faces, including the melty face. Peeking, peekaboo,

Alex Lindsay (01:16:23):
Seeing if you had the, if you had the one with the hand over its face and the belly belly then there's yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:16:28):
Yeah. Whoops. That's just, that's a, that's a way of saying, oops. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:32):
Another interesting tweak now that now the shaking hands emoji, you can change the skin color of each of the hands, not just as, as a pair.

Leo Laporte (01:16:38):
Oh, I really like that. Yeah. Notice. So you can have say a black and white hand shaking hands. I think that's really cool. That, it's just more, as you say, Andy, it's more expressive. It's about expressive, the face holding back tears, which is I call the anime emoji or the the keen emoji. I like the sideways mouth that's faced with diagonal mouth. Let's see what else we have faced with open eyes and handover mouth that's Apple actually was the inspiration for that replacing face with and over mouth. As you mentioned, there's a troll, what do they call these lips? A troll? There's a troll. It's cute. I wanna know what they call these lips though. The troll emojis designed was changed between the release of 15 for beta and today's release. As you can see, it's smiling now in, in the beta, the nose was so big. You couldn't tell if it was grimacing, smiling growling. Now we know they've shrunk the nose and you could see it's, it's smiling,

Andy Ihnatko (01:17:44):
Smiling, and SMU self satisfaction. It's

Alex Lindsay (01:17:46):
A happy, happy trial. Just think about how many meetings there were to make that that's gotta

Leo Laporte (01:17:50):
Be,

Alex Lindsay (01:17:51):
It's a whole team. There's like a whole team. And there's like a guy that has to build a 3d model of it. And there's, there's lots of things

Leo Laporte (01:17:57):
There. We now have some Italian hand gestures. 

Alex Lindsay (01:18:02):
I didn't quite get the one. Is it the snapping, the F the, the

Leo Laporte (01:18:05):
It's called hand with index finger and thumb crossed. And I guess it just depends where you're from. The gesture known as a finger heart was popularized in the 2010s by south Korean celebrities. K-Pop stars, actors, comedians. It can also be used. You've seen this, you know, where you're rubbing the two fingers together, like money, right. Money, okay. To indicate luxury or an expensive item. All right. So as, as a, any points out, it's, it's just expressive. And actually, if you look at Apple, Apple's rendering of it is not quite as expressive as Google's Google knows what money is. Google's really, I feel like Google's almost, you know, really they should put little lines as the fingers are moving or something. Well,

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:46):
If, if, if, if there's one company that understands the, the, the value, you have communication with communicating to people with fingers crossed, it's gonna be Google. So good. It's like 20 words for snow,

Leo Laporte (01:18:57):
Heart hands. We have heart hands. Now, the influencer's favorite gesture as you pointed out, Annie, you can vary the skin tone, which is really great. And the handshakes,

Alex Lindsay (01:19:08):
I, I think the green with like three fingers would be really,

Leo Laporte (01:19:11):
Oh yeah. You should have a Shrek hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's see, what else? There's magic beans. 

Alex Lindsay (01:19:23):
What's the hand with the eye?

Leo Laporte (01:19:25):
That's like a Hindu thing, right? What is that? Let's see, they've got coral, Lotus empty nest nest with eggs. It's

Mark Gurman (01:19:32):
AA. It's from Judaism.

Leo Laporte (01:19:34):
Oh, it's Judaism. It's AA. Yeah. All right. A blue hand with an eye in the center, the Hamsa ancient symbol, important to multiple religions, including Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and Christianity represents luck, protection, guidance, feminine, power, and faith. It's kind of a cool thing. I don't know. It's

Mark Gurman (01:19:54):
Funny Apple got it. Right. Because a coma, like when you look at it in real life, it looks sort of like the Apple one, whereas the Google and the, the twittter ones. It's not

Leo Laporte (01:20:03):
What it looks like. Maybe they're doing the

Alex Lindsay (01:20:04):
One way

Leo Laporte (01:20:04):
Too far. They're doing the Buddhist one. Yeah. They went that they, yeah. That's weird. Yeah. So that's interesting. Oh, I don't know if I didn't realize it was a, a Judaica. That's interesting. There's a crutch. There is a Apple ID card. I don't know why you'd need that. Joe Apple seed. There's an equality sign. There's bubbles playground slide, wheel ring, boy. X-Ray heavy equals sign. That's called the heavy equal sign. Of course you have equal signs. You don't need one, especially, but equals they're already apparently wears a heavy multiply heavy plus heavy minus and heavy divide, man. So now there's a heavy equals Googley. Even gave it a little highlighting there. Anyway, you'll get that with iOS 15 four. The other thing I was surprised I had a redo face ID on my phone and that's because now it a little late, but better, late than ever face ID works with a mask, but apparently they have to redo it so that they really pay attention to your eyes.

Leo Laporte (01:21:08):
In fact, they give you a second option to do it with glasses, and they say, you should do it with every kind of glasses that you wear. Every pair except sunglasses. It won't work. So get ready when you go to 15 four on your iPhone or your iPad, I guess if you use face ID on that you'll have to redo the face ID so that I don't know, so that you can use it. I haven't tried it yet. I stopped wearing masks, so I don't, I don't know, share play sessions can be initially initiated directly from supportive apps and FaceTime. Siri has a new voice. Have you tried the new voice yet? We played it a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. I've. I've I've switched. We'll see. I've switched. I was using American voice three. I'm now using

Speaker 7 (01:21:55):
Hi, I'm Siri. Choose the voice. You'd like me to use

Leo Laporte (01:21:58):
The non-gendered voice five I'm

Andy Ihnatko (01:22:00):
Gendered as a

Speaker 7 (01:22:01):
Choose the voice you'd like me to use. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:22:04):
They actually said they got somebody from the lb G T Q community plus community to record that.

Speaker 7 (01:22:10):
Hi, I'm Siri. Choose the voice. You'd like me to use. I'm

Leo Laporte (01:22:13):
Gonna use that. I don't want it to sound like a, anything like a human. So I think that that's appropriate. Well,

Andy Ihnatko (01:22:20):
It's it, it sounds human. Just it's it's another variant, but it's but the, my, my only qualm always is that I accidentally changed the voice on my Google assistant a come four weeks ago. Yeah. Actually, when I was actually, when I was testing things out for a story based on exactly what we're talking about, and I'm like, it was so freaky and I'm like, I, I should keep this. I should keep this new voice for a day just to prove that I'm not gonna get freaked out by this. And it's like, why? It, it, it really was exactly like having like my, my, my regular assistant has a week or vacation and they, the temp agency sent someone else in and it's like, oh hi I'm Andy. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna want to be woken up at 8:30 AM and remind me that I'm so eating something. And it just, I was tensing up because I'm not, I'm not used to talking to this voice.

Leo Laporte (01:23:08):
They've also fixed the most, in my opinion, single most annoying thing about Siri. If she doesn't have an internet connection and you ask her what time it is, she says, hold on, wait a minute. I'm I'm thinking from

Alex Lindsay (01:23:23):
The, I

Leo Laporte (01:23:23):
Can't, I don't, I can't tell you right now. So they've actually, this is a feature in iOS 15, four Siri can provide time and date information by offline, but only on an iPhone, 10 S 10 R 11 or newer. So the older iPhones, I'm sorry, Siri still doesn't know what time it is. It's

Alex Lindsay (01:23:41):
Not like, it's not like Siri could, could, could constantly be checking a clock every once in a while, and just sure she's accurate and then be able to come back and tell it's

Leo Laporte (01:23:48):
Weird. It's just a thing, you know if you're in the EU, you can now use the digital COVID certificates and your wallet as, as we have been doing in the United States, that's actually really nice. I stopped carrying that dog yeared vaccine card around with me. And I so far, I haven't had to show it at all, but even cares anymore. But if I ever do I'll, I'll have it in my Apple wallet, which is nice. There are a bunch of other things that podcast app adds episode filters for seasons unplayed played, saved, or downloaded. Like everybody else. Finally you can manage your iCloud custom email domains from settings. Emergency SOS settings have changed to use call withhold. My watch decided I had a taken a terrible fall the other day. And it's lucky I felt it cuz it was a, you know, if I hadn't canceled it, would've called 9 1 1.

Leo Laporte (01:24:41):
And I all, I think it was just a door closing behind me. It was the slamming door, so, Hmm. Anyway, there's there's a bunch of other things, big, big update in iOS 15 four iPad OS 15 four. I presume also TV OS and watch OS and all that will be updated as well. Take a little break. We'll have more mark Irman as a very special guest. Great to have him from Bloomberg's but hour on newsletter, which you must subscribe to. If you don't already at mark, I were you just doing a Huma for us? Was that your

Mark Gurman (01:25:16):
Just, oh, I guess sort of you kinda, it's a waved the audience. Hi, everyone. Glad to be here with, with the crew. And he

Leo Laporte (01:25:25):
Can do

Mark Gurman (01:25:25):
A Renee off this week so I could fill so Nice to join again with Renee too. Hey,

Leo Laporte (01:25:32):
You know what be my guest, anytime you wanna be on we'll we will make sure you come on. We would love having you on here. If you,

Mark Gurman (01:25:38):
We can coordinate when there's a big story coming

Leo Laporte (01:25:40):
Let's please let's do that. It's really great to have mark Iman on also Andy and ACO from w GBH in Boston of, I was just looking at older shows. You've been on more than 10 years now. You've been part of MacBreak weekly. When did you start? Do you remember?

Andy Ihnatko (01:25:57):
We started at sea, so I don't know what I, so we started

Leo Laporte (01:26:01):
At sea. Now. You might, when you're listening to the show, wonder what the hell is he talking about in a boat at sea?

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:08):
Yes. International water. So we could speak openly without Apple punching us.

Leo Laporte (01:26:12):
One of those geek cruises, one of those what do they call them? The Mac cruises.

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:17):
Yep. It was a, oh God geek.

Leo Laporte (01:26:20):
It was a geek cruise

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:20):
Geek. Cruise. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:26:21):
Yeah. Mac mania, Mac mania. That's what they call 'em

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:25):
Combined Mac Mac Unix and star Trek crews. Three very interesting groups at the karaoke parts. So

Leo Laporte (01:26:33):
That that's probably 2008, 2009. Something like that. Yeah. Long time. And of course the man who founded Mac break way back when, Hey, he's got a Huma. He just drew an eyeball on his hand. It's good. Huma. Nice job.

Alex Lindsay (01:26:49):
It Horrible's don't have a Sharpie. So that's how they calculated

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:55):
Of raw.

Alex Lindsay (01:26:56):
Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte (01:26:58):
Very nice.

Alex Lindsay (01:26:59):
Sorry. I just had to

Leo Laporte (01:27:00):
Do it way back in 2007, we did a versions. In fact, we have, 'em still on our site of Mack break, hosted by Leo LePort Kendra AMO Emery Wells. Who's now a billionaire by the way, Merlin man, Alex Lindsay, and lots of other people, including Sal Sego. And there was a lot of fun. Yeah. And then that I said, can we do an audio version? We'll call it Mack break weekly. So people know the difference. And the rest is history. I think you've been with us since before the beginning. That means, and of course, oh nine oh media is where he goes to, to like five minutes a day. I don't know to do his job. It's there's work.

Alex Lindsay (01:27:41):
It's still 80 hours a week. It's on top of, on top

Leo Laporte (01:27:43):
Of another 80 hours a week for office hours stuck.

Alex Lindsay (01:27:46):
I only spend 30 hours a week on office hours. It's

Leo Laporte (01:27:51):
Relaxed. Let's point out office hours is 24 7 now. Right?

Alex Lindsay (01:27:54):
It is, it is. We did a, you know, it's funny. So we did today. We talked about ice cast serving, which we used, you know, love ice cast. Yeah. So, but we, how to build the ice cast server. So that was the second hour. And then eventually what happens with us is there'll be an after hours, which is what runs 21 hours a day, a session where we all build one together. Like let's build an ice cast over together and we'll all get on AWS or whatever limb node. And 

Leo Laporte (01:28:17):
Can you just slow down because I'm already overwhelmed with the amount of content you do and I can't keep up and I just it's,

Alex Lindsay (01:28:25):
I it's just, I gotta say it is just a lot of fun. Like it's, you know, I mean, I'm sure you have this kind of the same experience, but I get to hang out every morning with, oh, it's fabulous. Like some of the smartest people in the world's a real reason

Leo Laporte (01:28:34):
I do this show is

Alex Lindsay (01:28:36):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:28:36):
For you guys. Yeah. Anyway, great to have all three of you more to come with our panel this week, but first a word from our sponsored Zoc. This is a very timely product. AZA doc Zoc is a doctor that you can find in an app. It's a free app that shows you doctors with their, with their reviews, which you know, doctors for a long time kind of resisted that they take your insurance. They're available when you need them. Z doc, you gotta know about this. There's some amazing doctors out there. Really. The only ones you care about I care about are ones who will take your insurance. But Z doc, you can focus on doctors who are in network, putting you on the path to see a who's right for you. No more wasting time, hunting down, aunt Shirley's cash, only chiropractor or the dentist, your coworker recommended who turns out to be outta your network and not accepting new patients.

Leo Laporte (01:29:30):
Anyway, no one knows what you're looking for in a doctor better than you and no, one's better at giving you the tools to find the perfect doctor. Then Z doc Z, C D C. Folks who created Z doc found all the major pain points in healthcare. All the things that weren't working, they said we can do better. They made booking a great doctor, surprisingly PainFREE and you know what that's what you want with a doctor is pain free. Get doc doc right now go to Z doc.com. You can actually do it on the web. Up on local doctors get verified, patient reviews. That's to me a huge benefit, cuz honestly I wanna know, you know how patients feel about their doctor. You see what other real humans have to say about their visits so that when you walk into the doctor's office, you're set up to see somebody in your network takes your insurance.

Leo Laporte (01:30:19):
Who gets you patients like it's. I think it's about a time we had ratings for doctors go to zocdoc.com, choose a time slot. Whether you wanna see the doctor in person, you can do video visits. Of course, just like that. You're booked find the doctor, right? For you. Book an appointment that works for your schedule every month, millions of people use Z doc. It could be your go-to when it ever, you need to find and book a doctor, especially if you're traveling. If you're, you know, you're in a strange city in the chaotic world of healthcare led do be your trusted guide to find a quality doctor in a way that's surprisingly pain free. Get your docs in a row, get it, go to Zoc D CZO do.com/mac break. You can download the app for free. Start your search for top rated doctor today, many available within 24 hours. It's not emergency care of course, but it's, if you need somebody fast, you can often get one Zoc D c.com/mac break. Isn't the case. We always wait until we need somebody fast. Like I broke my leg three weeks ago, but it's really starting to, to hurt. Now Zoc D c.com/mac break. Thank you. So duck for supporting MacBreak weekly and, and thank you. Mac break, weekly listeners and viewers for supporting us by using that special address, SOC doc.com/mac break. Gonna get a Mac studio.

Mark Gurman (01:31:46):
I'm not gonna get a Mac studio. I'm actually not gonna get anything from this Apple really. I'm funny enough, right? I know it's a rarity for me, but yeah, I'll be I mean, I just got this MacroPro at the end of the year. And I feel like if I were buying anything from this event, I'd just be basically throwing money away because there's absolutely nothing I need from it, nothing. So

Leo Laporte (01:32:06):
We ordered it was funny cuz this doesn't usually happen. The store went online before Tim cook had left the stage on Tuesday. Really?

Mark Gurman (01:32:16):
And I missed

Leo Laporte (01:32:17):
That. I know somebody said it, the chat room and I went, oh, and I immediately went in and ordered a, the a maxed out studio for, you know, for our review purposes and stuff. And it's coming Friday. Everything I ordered after that, yes, everything I ordered after that's coming, you know, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. This,

Mark Gurman (01:32:34):
What about the monitor? Did you order the monitor?

Leo Laporte (01:32:35):
But I didn't order it the same time and I wish I had now. I was, when it, it come April was may I was torn. Yeah. I was torn about the monitor. Let me check. Cuz I, I, if I, if I thought about it, I would order it at the same time. Probably would also have been getting that in, in a timely fashion. So the studio is coming, ordering progress. The studio display rather is coming April 7th. I ordered two Mac studios, ended up going back in and ordering one lower end one, the 2199 version that's coming March 30th. And then Lisa's fancy ultra $4,000. Mac studio is preparing good for her arriving. She deserves it. Yep. You know you are you married? My mark.

Mark Gurman (01:33:21):
I'm not married. Okay. But I have a 

Leo Laporte (01:33:23):
Steady

Mark Gurman (01:33:23):
Girl. Serious girlfriend. Yeah. Maybe she's watching. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:33:26):
So little, little tip, little advice, little piece of advice. Always get them the best.

Mark Gurman (01:33:33):
I always try to, she she has a beautiful nice new necklace. So ah,

Leo Laporte (01:33:39):
Good man.

Mark Gurman (01:33:41):
Very happy with

Leo Laporte (01:33:41):
Good man. Jewelry is always a winning winning recipe. I find. Yeah. You know,

Mark Gurman (01:33:48):
Let's talk about this because if you raise a good point, I'm trying to think what new Apple products will I get this year? I know it sounds kind of nerdy, but this is the stuff I love. Right. I just love opening the new stuff. I'm total fanboy. Okay. The iPhone for sure. I'll probably get the big

Leo Laporte (01:34:03):
One. You'll get the 14 when it comes out. Yeah. What do you expect? It'll be new and exciting and different about the 14. That'll make you want one so bad.

Mark Gurman (01:34:10):
So it'll have this. Oh, make me want one so bad. Just because it's shiny new and made by Apple. But in terms of, you know, what will be market is probably the satellite texting feature, which

Leo Laporte (01:34:19):
So wait a minute now can't be. So that was one of those rumors it's gonna have satellite phone. And then the conclusion I came to is that was dumped by somebody who owns one of these companies that just wanted the stock. It was a pump and dump. You think there actually is gonna be a satellite capability in this phone.

Mark Gurman (01:34:39):
I think Apple's working on it. And I have to the whole team working on various different satellite initiatives. So it's

Leo Laporte (01:34:45):
Real start.

Mark Gurman (01:34:46):
Yeah. They started this team in 2017. It's run by two guys who used to run Google's satellite internet division guy named Mike Trello, another guy named John Finnick and they have a team of people working on stuff. They've explored building their own satellites. They explored using people's existing satellite infrastructure to beam, internet, to Apple devices. The latest variation of their work is satellite based, texting and SOS and this kind

Leo Laporte (01:35:12):
Of like a spot tracker or something like that. So if you're out of phone ring, you can ask for help anyway.

Mark Gurman (01:35:18):
Yeah. But it's not to make calls it's for short texts, like very short texts. And if you're, I mean, in a boat accident or a plane crash, or

Leo Laporte (01:35:29):
Now the product code name is reportedly Stewy, do you have to talk like this to do it?

Mark Gurman (01:35:34):
You don't have to talk like this.

Leo Laporte (01:35:37):
Okay.

Mark Gurman (01:35:37):
You actually sound just like it. But what I've been trying to figure out for the last year, since I first heard about this is what does the code name mean? What does that mean? Like what does do we have to do with the satellite? What does he look like? A satellite dish.

Leo Laporte (01:35:49):
Yes he does. He's got a football head.

Mark Gurman (01:35:51):
Okay. So yeah, that's what I thought it was. He looks like a satellite dish. Okay. So that's why it's called story. But anyways, they've had this thing developed from a software standpoint already for months. This thing is ready to go. It's just about if they're gonna have the the correct hardware in this year's model or next year

Leo Laporte (01:36:07):
Model. It seems to be a, a, a very limited appeal feature. But I guess, I mean, unless you think Apple wants to replace the cell phone. Yeah. Anything they can add, I guess you're right. You know,

Mark Gurman (01:36:16):
It makes more sense to me, for an Apple watch to have the Apple feature. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:36:21):
So,

Mark Gurman (01:36:21):
But

Leo Laporte (01:36:21):
I think like those spot watch too small

Mark Gurman (01:36:23):
Though. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:36:23):
Exactly. There was a rumor, I don't know what you think about this, that they would not in fact offer the newest processor in the regular iPhone 14. You'd have to get a Promax to get the yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:36:36):
That was from quo. And it makes a, a lot of, a lot of sense to me. I mean, it's no different than the fact that the MacBook air will have an M two and the MacBook pro will have a an

Leo Laporte (01:36:49):
M one pro except they've never done that with an iPhone. They've always had a new generation.

Mark Gurman (01:36:53):
They've always had a new generation in their Apple, Silicon history in their own custom chip. So this will be the first time that they're not going to upgrade it. I think this may have to do with the chip shortage. Yeah. In some respects,

Leo Laporte (01:37:06):
Which would make sense or

Mark Gurman (01:37:07):
Given that they have that chip shortage qualifier right now, this is a good time as any to actually make that transition. Cuz the market is used to getting those new chips. A 15 is also very speedy, very fast. They just edit the, a 15 to the iPhone se right this year. Right. And it's not that old. So I don't know. It all adds up to me. I think that's gonna be true. I haven't heard it personally, but it rings true to me. In terms of their latest strategy.

Leo Laporte (01:37:33):
Also no more iPhone mini I hear is that what you hear

Mark Gurman (01:37:36):
Iphone mini is gone. They decided like two ago to stop making the iPhone mini because nobody was buying the iPhone 12 mini, right. Right from the gate. They knew they weren't gonna be able to do that. They couldn't discontinue it in time to not include it for the iPhone 13 line because those plans were already in place. It's kind of hard to just cancel phone the last minute, right. There won't be an iPhone 14 mini. What they're gonna do is they're gonna have two, 6.1 inch models, 2.672 6.7 inch models. And I think that the iPhone 14 max, not the Promax the regular 14 max could just be one of the best all time selling iPhones ever getting that bigger screen for that lower price. I think it's gonna be fantastic.

Leo Laporte (01:38:19):
ING. Interesting.

Mark Gurman (01:38:20):
I'll probably get some Promax but you know, certainly being able to offer a 6.7 inch phone at that price point, probably at an 8 99 type of price point or 7 99 price point fairly compelling in my view. And you know, I we're gonna have those four, I that, that style of four iPhones, so a big and a small, regular and pro, and then eventually we'll get like an iPhone ultra that sits on top of the entire lineup that does something neat and cool. Whether that's a foldable or different type of display or something, right. Just like Samsung's doing

Leo Laporte (01:38:56):
You as you. What's your take. Go ahead. What's

Alex Lindsay (01:38:58):
Your take on the camera resolution

Mark Gurman (01:39:01):
On the new iPhones? I don't know. I think I saw a rumor out there that it would be a 48 megapixel camera, but I'm not sure how that equates to resolution and such. It's funny. Apple's been the company for, for years that used to say, oh, we don't talk about specs. We don't care about speeds and feeds. We don't talk about this or that. Cause we let the products and their capabilities speak for themselves. Well, this is now also the company that's been touting, the one ultra that had a whole event over processors. They put the Ram on their website now for the iPad. Right. Is that

Leo Laporte (01:39:27):
Seeing a shift here? Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:39:28):
Seeing a shift here, right? Yeah. I mean, they, they have their opinions until it's no longer convenient for them. Right, right. Right. Now that getting into the speeds and feeds the numbers game is convenient for them. Their opinion has

Leo Laporte (01:39:41):
Showed, Hey, that's how I work too. I can understand that. It's

Mark Gurman (01:39:44):
How any human being works

Leo Laporte (01:39:45):
Opinion. So they don't work anymore. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:39:47):
Well like sometimes I'll sit back and maybe criticize a decision Apples made or think I'm about to criticize a decision Apples made. And then I think about it. It's like, what the hell would I be doing? If, if that was my decision to be doing the same thing you gotta do, what's best for your company and best for yourself. And you gotta present, but you gotta put your best foot forward. So

Leo Laporte (01:40:06):
Let's see. What else? Shun lockdown, is that gonna, because of COVID some concerns about supply increased supply chain problems in the fall.

Mark Gurman (01:40:20):
So here's the interesting thing. So that Shen lockdown only runs through March 20th. Now, as we all know, because we were here two years ago, original COVID it was like, ah, we're gonna shut down for a week, shut down for two weeks. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do that for a few days. And then look what happened. We've been through this for two. Right. So right now it's Chinen right now it's one week Apple has multiple iPhone factories in China. This factory in Chinen is actually their smallest one.

Leo Laporte (01:40:48):
Oh, I didn't know that one of the smaller ones. Oh, I thought that's where they were all made.

Mark Gurman (01:40:52):
That's not, that's not the king. Oh, you know, that's not the king of their factories. Right. They have a factory that people call iPhone city that's up and running. Okay. Good news is, is we're three to six months away from iPhone 14 mass production. And who knows? I think we'll be okay. I think this is gonna go longer than March 20th. I don't think this is gonna hurt Apple in the short, in the short term or the long term. So 

Leo Laporte (01:41:18):
What other Apple products are you gonna be buying?

Mark Gurman (01:41:21):
M two iPad pro. I wanted to see if I can get my iPad pro

Leo Laporte (01:41:25):
Come on. The iPad pro is already vastly overpowered with an M one and you need an M two in it.

Mark Gurman (01:41:30):
Listen, I don't have the M one version. Right. Ah,

Leo Laporte (01:41:33):
Want the, okay. That's

Mark Gurman (01:41:34):
Different safe charging and I want the design and, and all that it's

Leo Laporte (01:41:37):
Under both four maybe would be nice. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:41:40):
Yeah. And so, you know, there, there is, there is reason to get to, so

Leo Laporte (01:41:43):
You were, when you used the the iPad pro as your main work machine, that was, you didn't feel constrained by that you, you were able to,

Mark Gurman (01:41:49):
I didn't feel constrained by it now that I have a MacBook pro for comparison, though, I do for open to, I'm telling you, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but like, I couldn't really use the until 16 inch micro pro for work. Cause I have tons OFS open and it wasn't very efficient, you know, it's a, it was like a $3,000 paper weight.

Leo Laporte (01:42:07):
I didn't, I just got the pro the M one pro in a 14 inch, not a 16 and it's the best laptop I've ever had. It's it's mind boggling in every respect. It's great.

Mark Gurman (01:42:16):
It's

Leo Laporte (01:42:16):
They really did a great job.

Mark Gurman (01:42:18):
Changed, changed the game. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I know video editors who use it and you know, they had a MacBook air, non M one previously, and they're like this M one pro 14 inch MacBook pro you know, I can do what I took me eight hours and four.

Leo Laporte (01:42:30):
So when does that get updated? Is that the fall?

Mark Gurman (01:42:33):
Which one? The MacBook pros. Yeah. Oh, I don't think they'll be updated next until

Leo Laporte (01:42:37):
Next year. I think

Mark Gurman (01:42:38):
Next year, I think they'll be updated sometime next year. Okay. Yeah. It's they're on a year and a half to two year cadence.

Leo Laporte (01:42:43):
Yes. That makes sense. Yeah. So if you have an M one pro or max, that's good. You'll be right for a year or two.

Mark Gurman (01:42:50):
I wouldn't, if you're looking, if you're in the market today to buy an M a MacBook pro wouldn't hesitate, probably S unless we're talking about the base 13 inch MacBook pro, which will be refreshed, right.

Leo Laporte (01:43:00):
Soon that's gonna be the M two or M one X, whatever they end up calling that that's that, and the and the MacBook here will be updated. Will the, will the M one Mac mini be updated as well?

Mark Gurman (01:43:10):
So the Mac mini will become an M two Mac mini. I think that'll be either late this year or sometime next year.

Leo Laporte (01:43:17):
So we'll start to see a kind of consistent cadence then,

Mark Gurman (01:43:20):
And you'll get there right.

Leo Laporte (01:43:21):
Low. They got

Mark Gurman (01:43:22):
The hard ones done, right? Yeah. They got the, they got the difficult ones done and going from M one to M two across the whole line. That's not the big deal. The big deal was getting the first M one S out. And so you'll see more regularly regularity in the future. They'll update to the 24 iMac as well with

Leo Laporte (01:43:38):
The yeah, that makes sense.

Mark Gurman (01:43:39):
There'll be M two versions of the Mac studio you know,

Leo Laporte (01:43:43):
So help Alex help Alex Lindsay out here, cuz he wants to know if he should buy some studios or should he wait for the Mac pro what are you, what are you you predicting for the Mac pro?

Mark Gurman (01:43:54):
Well, the Mac pro will just essentially be double the performance of the Mac studio. So the Mac studio, I believe is,

Leo Laporte (01:43:59):
Will it be the Ultram max, the, the M M one Ultram max,

Mark Gurman (01:44:05):
If they're waiting out the M two line for the Mac pro, I think it'll be the M two

Leo Laporte (01:44:09):
M two extreme extreme,

Mark Gurman (01:44:11):
That's my guess to extreme as Renee would say, that's my guess.

Leo Laporte (01:44:15):
Okay. So, okay.

Alex Lindsay (01:44:17):
And I, and I I've already bought an ultra I'm I'm I'm waiting. I'm gonna buy a Mac pro I got a smaller ultra plan to get a Mac pro, is

Leo Laporte (01:44:24):
This studio, the small Mac pro we were hearing rumors about, or will there be a little cheese grater, cuz I would love a little cheese grater.

Mark Gurman (01:44:33):
Well there's both.

Leo Laporte (01:44:35):
It's both. There will be both.

Mark Gurman (01:44:37):
Yeah. This is the small Mac pro and then the, the new Mac pro is smaller than the current Mac pro my questions, interchangeability, modularity, what kind of parts are you gonna be able to interchange? What are you gonna be able to upgrade?

Leo Laporte (01:44:48):
There's a reason why you have a big case.

Mark Gurman (01:44:50):
There's the reason why you have a big

Leo Laporte (01:44:52):
Case, but we no longer support third party graphics cards, which are the primary reason you had that giant case,

Mark Gurman (01:44:57):
But also adding and removing Ram putting in more SSDs and hard drives. Right. And all that. Right. So what is really the differentiator between a Mac studio and a Mac pro? Well, I believe it's going to be expandability Expandability, but the question is what is the expandability? They would have to develop a whole new set of frameworks and technologies to make their custom Silicon expandable. Right Question. Is, are they going to do that?

Leo Laporte (01:45:22):
That's very and don't or just do it over Thunderball four, in which case it doesn't need to be in the case.

Mark Gurman (01:45:27):
Right. So I don't know, but I, I don't see the purpose unless the max pro their only selling point is that it's double the performance of the Mac studio, which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing. Right. How

Leo Laporte (01:45:39):
Cool with that? It's interesting to see the lesson they learned from the trash can Mac, which they finally had to admit because the cooling system is just not adequate. We cannot upgrade. So it's clear the Mac studio, it's, it's more than half cooling system. They,

Mark Gurman (01:45:55):
They basically, it's a cooling system. It's a

Leo Laporte (01:45:57):
Cooling system. Yeah.

Mark Gurman (01:46:00):
It's an, a 13 powered cooling system.

Leo Laporte (01:46:04):
Were, did you know, ahead of time there was gonna be copper and aluminum, or did you was that a surprise when that actually 

Mark Gurman (01:46:11):
So I knew there would be two thermal version because of the power differences. I didn't know that it would be a two pound difference.

Leo Laporte (01:46:18):
That's a big difference. Two pound. That's

Mark Gurman (01:46:20):
A big difference, right? Yeah. So I, I didn't, I didn't realize that it would be that much of a weight difference.

Leo Laporte (01:46:26):
And I think Jean Louise kind of got it wrong in his Monday note, cuz he was speculating about the two pound difference. Even though I may, maybe he wrote his Monday note before he released it, he released it a couple of days ago. We knew by then that the difference the two pound difference was because of the copper versus aluminum. He had some other kind of wild speculation about that. Any, okay. What other things let's see you're gonna buy an Apple car. We know that mark 

Mark Gurman (01:46:58):
That's says many years away,

Leo Laporte (01:46:59):
But

Mark Gurman (01:46:59):
The the Apple watch Apple, Apple

Leo Laporte (01:47:02):
Watch will be now. I that's another one where I didn't bother with a series seven, cuz my series six is fine. Series eight. I would probably do. And I think I'm starting to get the point where I'll skip a year, every year

Mark Gurman (01:47:13):
For the Apple watches. They're making it pretty easy to start skipping a year, if not two years. Right. I mean the Apple watch series four that's that was the big one and that was in 2018. Right. And so, you know, I gotta imagine the series eight will be pretty impressive this year, but the other hand there who cares they're so far are ahead. They're basically like people like to say, oh Apple's in a league of its own. Right. But like they are literally in a league of their own. I'm not really sure. I can't name another smart watch maker at this point with any relevancy. I mean you have Fitbit lighting on fire on people's arms at this

Leo Laporte (01:47:42):
Point. Yeah. That's not a good look. Tim cook, perhaps speaking outta school, one point talked about you know, ti blood sugar testing without with noninvasive blood sugar testing with an Apple watch. And that has not materialized. Is that coming? Is that it seems to me that's something that's much harder to do than anybody thought

Mark Gurman (01:48:06):
They've actually been working on that since 20 13, 20. Sure.

Leo Laporte (01:48:10):
Cause if they can do it, it's huge.

Mark Gurman (01:48:12):
Yeah. If they've been working on it for a decade now. Yeah. I don't see it happening for at least Three to five more years. Yeah. So next will be body temperature then blood pressure, then blood sugar

Leo Laporte (01:48:25):
Blood pressure would be good. Yeah. There's there's almost 40 million Americans who have diabetes. So that 40 million Americans who would immediately buy Apple watch if they didn't have to prick their prick, their skin. Huge. So that's obviously Apples, Apple, and everybody else is saying, you know, that's, that's that's the holy

Mark Gurman (01:48:44):
That's the holy grail. Yeah. That, yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:48:46):
Exactly. We that's a big business if we can solve that one. All right. Let's see. I think boy, boy, we've covered. We have covered the rumor mill here. Big victories for Apple TV shows in it's it's awards season, Ted lasso got a critics choice award. Congratulations. Ted lasso was just, you know, rolling it up. Best comedy lead actor. Jason Sudeikis. Let's see. There was there were the BFS, there were the, the sag awards, but it's the, the big ones are, you know, for Apple is probably gonna be the Oscars where Coda is dominated for a best picture. It's interesting how the streamers now are so totally dominating in these awards. 

Alex Lindsay (01:49:40):
They have more money. Yeah. Like they have all

Leo Laporte (01:49:42):
The money they're doing better stuff, frankly.

Alex Lindsay (01:49:45):
They're hiring all the talent. Like that's the thing is, it's just, it's just that that's where all the money is right now.

Leo Laporte (01:49:49):
There's a limited set of people who can make Oscar quality film and Steven Spielberg, not withstanding a lot of 'em are going to streaming.

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:59):
Also. I think one of the strengths that they have is that they don't have to, they don't have to boast about viewership numbers to advertise or anybody else. So they can simply, they, they can, they can run a show like Ted lasso simply because they have data that says that there isn't the, the projected audience for this matches with our audience at Apple TV, or we'd like to work with these people or this would some way be profitable for us. So that means they're taking more risks so that they're not doing things like what's the network show. They there, I saw ads for where it's basically setting up huge like domino stacks with explosions and flashing lights. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's what the networks are down to there do dominoes,

Alex Lindsay (01:50:40):
Domino

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:41):
Dominoes. Yeah. And it's like,

Alex Lindsay (01:50:45):
I mean, they're playing

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:47):
Colors, fly crushing lights.

Leo Laporte (01:50:49):
Well, they're going low end. Right. They're going after the main stream market. Well, they're

Alex Lindsay (01:50:53):
Here. Here's the thing is they're going after what's interesting is, is that a lot of the streamers are going after things that you would never spend money on in a broadcast environment. And then they're throwing that money at it, you know, like cuz they can, you know, this is a matter of, you know, subscription model is so much better than a retail model or even an advertising model. It is, it is a, it's a much better model to, to make money, you know? And, and because so, but, but you do have to keep people wanting. Whatever's the next thing. You know, and so I think that that's, you know, that's been the, you know, but like Netflix has to serve all these different audiences. So like you have these, their movies, which are fine. But they, you also have chef's table, which is a completely different, like you would never put that on a broadcast.

Alex Lindsay (01:51:36):
Right. But it's like one of my favorite Netflix shows ever. And, and so the, so the but I think that the interesting thing there is that there's also a much lower threshold of what people think is good in what they think is okay. If I spend it ticket to go to see red notice, I think that that was the Ryan Reynolds. That's terrible, you know, rock. If I had spent a ticket on that, I would've been really upset. Yeah. But on Netflix I was like, was eh, popcorn. I, I hit some popcorn. We hang out. It was fine. You know, like I, I didn't, I went with no very, very low expectations. I didn't have to pay anything for it. I watched it home. So there's a, the, the entire model of making content. That's a good point Is, is evolving where I can do something that people aren't gonna, they don't have to get out of. They don't have, they literally don't have to get outta bed to watch what you're making. And, and so that's a very different kind of content play than getting people to go spend, you know, a hundred dollars for a family of four to go watch your movie. You know, Andy,

Leo Laporte (01:52:31):
Do you think domino masters is the cop rock of the 20th century, 21st century,

Andy Ihnatko (01:52:35):
At least they're singing and dancing in cop rock. I'm not sure if I, I mean, there, there, there are better people on YouTube doing, doing dominoes, you know,

Leo Laporte (01:52:44):
Teams incorporate a sports night theme and custom elements into their rub Goldberg's style tops in domino masters. Wow.

Alex Lindsay (01:52:54):
I mean, the problem is now is that with a lot of broadcasters, I can just see the, and, and maybe it's cause I work in the industry, but I, I can just see the model. Like I can see that literally, like they're gonna do this well

Leo Laporte (01:53:04):
That's here, there expert. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:05):
Yeah's and so you're just kinda like, you know, and so I'm just, it's, it's a tired format, you know, and, and again, when you get rid of commercials, this is the other thing with streamers is that when you don't have commercials, you don't have to figure out how you build up act one to a point where everyone wants to go to act two and then give 'em a commercial break, you know, or build up no.

Leo Laporte (01:53:24):
How you make, so there's all the show. Exactly.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:26):
Oh yeah. Cuz there's, there's all these or even the whole series, you know? So for instance, when you're not like, you know, Marvel I've, I've decided is I'm gonna give you six to eight episodes, the first one's gonna be amazing. Then I'm gonna save money on three and four and five and then, and then I'm gonna make sure you leave going. This was amazing. You know, like, like, you know, it's all the money is spent on the two hums. And so its a different, it's an entirely different model than what we've seen in the past,

Leo Laporte (01:53:50):
By the way, just so you know get the popcorn ready. Cuz Netflix announced not one but two sequels to red notice. Right.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:59):
It was the most viewed thing they've ever done. Like it's

Leo Laporte (01:54:01):
Horrible. It was so bad. Well,

Alex Lindsay (01:54:04):
You know the thing is, is that what

Leo Laporte (01:54:05):
They did?

Alex Lindsay (01:54:06):
This is classic Netflix. They just picked people like, you know, there's a lot of people.

Leo Laporte (01:54:10):
That's why I watched it had Ryan, Ryan Reynolds, three people, Dwayne Johnson. Like that's why I watched it. I was

Alex Lindsay (01:54:16):
Like, I, I got exactly. I was like, how, how

Leo Laporte (01:54:19):
Bad that be pretty bad. You know? And

Alex Lindsay (01:54:21):
It's, it was bad, but it was really fun. It was, It was good. Clean, fun, good.

Leo Laporte (01:54:25):
Clean, fun.

Alex Lindsay (01:54:26):
Yeah. People can.

Leo Laporte (01:54:27):
How about Ben Stiller, severance, severance. Have you been watching that on Apple TV?

Alex Lindsay (01:54:31):
Oh, I haven't had time.

Leo Laporte (01:54:33):
It's I've been watching it. I, I'm not sure yet. It's a very sterile show because the premise is that people are so desperate for work. They're willing to have to work in a top secret facility, but basically have their personality divided in too. So that the person who's, you have your day persona. Right. Which works and then your nighttime persona, which doesn't work and neither knows what the other one's doing, which is a creepy premise. But a lot of it takes place in this super sterile basement facility. Of course there's probably very cheap to shoot. 

Alex Lindsay (01:55:08):
I don't think, I don't think anything that Apple does is cheap to shoot. Like I don't think there's saving money anywhere. I

Leo Laporte (01:55:13):
Don't feel like Apple is struggling somehow and I don't know why, but every time I watch something, an Apple Lisa says this too. It's like, yeah, it doesn't, it's not quite, I

Alex Lindsay (01:55:22):
Think it's too much brussel sprouts. Like for me, there's too much brussel sprouts in Apple stuff.

Leo Laporte (01:55:27):
Well that's why it's lassos a hit, right? No Brussels. Or is there brussel sprouts in Ted lass? There's

Alex Lindsay (01:55:32):
Sharks, cookies, all these figures. There's yeah. It's kind Aus

Leo Laporte (01:55:35):
Spout. I know what you're saying. It's

Alex Lindsay (01:55:36):
All good for me. You, you know, and it's, and it's like all the Apple stuff is always good for me and I'm just like sometimes I just, you know, just wanna watch a show. Yeah. And not be told, told what I should think, you know, like, and I'm just like, so I have to admit that I have not been a big fan of pretty much all of the Apple stuff except for tiny planet or whatever they call it. Tiny. You

Leo Laporte (01:55:52):
Love that show. I know. I love that show.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:53):
It's great. But, but so in the documentary, the, the the ones with the producer, I can't think of his name right now, but there's a, you know, a whole thing where they break down, like you know the beat machines and you know, like how music it's made. Oh, the

Leo Laporte (01:56:09):
Music document's

Alex Lindsay (01:56:10):
Great with mark Ronson. Ronson. Ronson.

Leo Laporte (01:56:13):
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:56:13):
So, so those ones I think are real, I'm, I'm really into documentary. So, so there's a, so I like those the fiction stuff that Apple's done, I've not watched more than I think a half an episode of anything. Like I get halfway through it and I'm like, actually, I'm go somewhere else.

Leo Laporte (01:56:29):
It seems to me Apple's model is the red notice model. Nothing's terrible. But every, but when you put together all the services, it's like, you've got Dwayne Johnson, GGA dot and Ryan Reynolds, it's all, all together. Feels like they,

Alex Lindsay (01:56:41):
I feel like they, they, they, there was some commerce internally that like, we're gonna create a higher, a higher level of content that has more, more meaningful and more whatever. Yeah. And when I'm watching, when I'm watching passive TV, I want to be passive. Right. I, I have to admit that I'm not like I don't need a higher order of things if I'm watching a fictional thing. Yeah. I just, you know, I'm, you know, I just born identity. Yeah. Just, you know, it's

Leo Laporte (01:57:07):
All right. Let's wrap it up. We're gonna have our picks of the week coming up in just a bit, boy, it's been a pleasure having you Mark Gurman with us, I will travel me. I will invite you back and you can come on anytime as many times you want, but next time there's a story that you got a scoop on or whatever. We will, we will, we will bring you back our picks of the week coming up in just a second.

Speaker 8 (01:57:28):
Thanks for listening to twit podcasts. If you'd like to take it up a notch, you can get all of our shows without ads by joining club twit, whether you're a loyal fan or once you give your employee something special with our corporate plan, you'll get the bonus twit plus feed with extra behind the scenes out to and access to a members only discord all for just seven bucks a month. It's a great way to get just the content support twit TV, and be a part of the tech community. Learn more and join club twit at twit.tv/club.

Leo Laporte (01:58:02):
Let's start actually, let's start the pick of the week with our guest of the week. Mark Kerman. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. I think you've got a pretty good pick.

Mark Gurman (01:58:11):
My pick is 'Power On' yes. With yes, have gotta do it. Would love if anyone could would subscribe. There is a free version as well. And it also, there is a subscriber version that comes as part of the larger Bloomberg subscription. So I'd encourage you to sign up for payer free. And what I like to do is I like to give a some scoops or hot takes every Sunday, every Sunday morning. And then there's definitely a lot of links to other articles that we've written more perspectives on things. And there's always some juicy information about Apple and Peloton and Amazon, whatever triggered throughout the newsletter. There's a Q and a section as well. The newsletter's been a lot of fun so far the subscribers are going quickly and I would encourage anyone to, you know, be part of 'Power On' and there's a, a lot more to come. It's

Leo Laporte (01:58:59):
A good move. It was a very good for Bloomberg to see this as a way to, to monetize you. And I I'm, by the way, right now, special deal, 99 cents a month unlimited digital access on bloomberg.com and the Bloomberg app. So that's a, it's a great deal, considerable reduction. Now that's only for the first year, but Hey, take it, take it. 

Mark Gurman (01:59:22):
Thanks Leo. Appreciate

Leo Laporte (01:59:23):
It. Thank you for being here, mark. We really thank you for having me appreciate you're great. Andy and ACO pick of the week

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:31):
My pick of the week is more of a tip and tip slash pick of the week is your state consumer laws. They, they consumer protection laws, they bear inspection for urine, a visual state. And I'll tell you why. I was reading a, a thread on Reddit about this person who was having problems with an M one MacBook error. That was just, it's one of those B it's one of those things where you just get a bum device and it just keeps breaking and they keep trying to fix it and it breaks again. They fix it again and they breaks again and then it's outta warranty and they won't fix it any more. But he lives in the state of Maine. So he stated the Maine has a really powerful, implied warrant, implied warranty law that says that I'm reading it directly from the office of the Maine attorney general website.

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:15):
The Maine implied warranty is a little known law that protects Maine consumers for being sold seriously defective items. It could be an UN fair trade practice and they've capitalized, unfair trade practice, cuz it's a legal definition to refuse to honor the main implied warranty law within four years of of sale. The basic test for possible implied warranty violations is as follows. So if a, the item is seriously defective, truly if the, if this laptop is not working, yeah, that's serious seat effective two, if the consumer did not damage the item. So as long as it wasn't, you know, dunked in paint or something, number three, the item is still within its useful life and is not simply worn out. And Mac laptops are supposed to LA are supposed to last four years or more. No problem there. So he cited, he finally got, got done to bras tax cited, the main implied warranty law and like the, the manager of the Apple store or wherever said, yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (02:01:06):
Okay, that's fine. We're good. We'll fix it. So this, and I've, I've been since then, I've been looking about looking around about this stuff and yeah, it's, it's an it, it's very, very likely that if you cite this law, either the manager of whatever store it is that sold you, this thing is gonna challenge you on it or gonna have to look it up in which case you're gonna have to educate them or someone else has, has put on the one true ring, turned invisible and they real, okay. At this point, it's a lot easier for us before they get the state attorney General's office involved in your because remember that the state attorney General's office is also very, very happy to help you enforce those laws. So just you, you write a letter that basically freezes that the, the freezes, the, the, the countdown of four years. So that even if it's like six years, but you've been trying to get them to do this for the past three years, it's still, you still can get this paired for free. The implied warranty laws in your state might be able to let you get something fixed, even if it's an Apple laptop. If it is again, a seriously defective product that should still be working and you didn't abuse it in any way, it's better than just simply staying home Gring and writing a blog post about it. That nobody's gonna read. Great.

Leo Laporte (02:02:16):
If you're in Maine, I, I, I, somebody ought to do a, an article on whether their states have these laws, cuz that is a really good tool. I'm

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:23):
I'm looking into it. Apparently there are 10 according to a law blog that hopefully enumerated that there are 10 states that have laws that are as powerful as this. Wow, but did not mention what they were Massachusetts. For instance has a law that is a lot more comp. A lot, a lot of states have warranty laws, but they're complicated enough that it's easy to weasel out of them if you follow. Whereas Maines is very, very simple and also they're very, very consistent on enforcement of it. So it is a very good card to keeping your wallet so to speak. Whereas in other states you might have a law that will help you, but essentially winning, winning with this blunt instrument might be a long slog. But it's again, once, once you're at the point where this, the, the seller or the store or the manufacturer is definitely not going to fix your defective product for you, you've got nothing to lose. You may as well, at least force them to hire one and a half hours worth of legal advice before they tell you to go, you have to go take your ball and go home again, by

Leo Laporte (02:03:23):
The way, it's a secondary recommendation for slash R slash Apple, the Apple subreddit there. Some very good subreddits. That's a, that's another good one.

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:32):
There, there, there, there are a lot of really great consumer. My, my, my favorite I'll I'll keep the short, but one of my favorite stories about Massachusetts consumer laws was somebody who was actually used to work for the consumer consumer affairs office in Massachusetts got fired when a new governor decided to downsize that entire office, but he knew what the laws were. So when like circuit city, I think it was had his had one of their flyers, oh, everything in the store is on sale. Nothing held back. He, he went into the pocket, calculator filled up his cart with like thousands of dollars worth of stuff, paid for it pay for all of it, with his credit card and then popped in the receipt as I'd like to speak to the manager. I'm sorry. The, the flyer said everything is on sale.

Andy Ihnatko (02:04:10):
And if it's not, it's free. And apparently whoever wrote that ad for the national ad did not realize that Massachusetts has a law that says that you cannot claim that something is on sale. Unless the discount is more than 3.5%. They had to, they had to refund him every single one. They, they had like cameras, TVs, a pile of stuff, and they just simply had to give it all for free because none of that stuff was on sale. It's a it's, it's like re what, what it is like it's like being the one kid who's playing like monopoly or life or board game. Who's taking the time to read the inside of the box lid that, you know, oh, I'm, I'm a child get 300. I

Leo Laporte (02:04:44):
Landed directly you that kid. I bet you, my friend, oh,

Andy Ihnatko (02:04:48):
My friend was that kid. And I learned from that kid

Leo Laporte (02:04:50):
Always read the box top. Thank you, Andy. Alex Lindsay pick of the week.

Alex Lindsay (02:04:56):
So I, you know, I went a little more expensive than normal.

Leo Laporte (02:04:59):
Oh.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:00):
So I have a, I have a mic beat. Oh my, you know, so I have a mic. So while I'm talking

Leo Laporte (02:05:06):
Oh yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:07):
Going and out. And so it's a mic mute. It also has we

Leo Laporte (02:05:10):
Call it a cough button in the radio biz.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:12):
Yeah. This one's a little bit more complex complex. So this is what's called a studio technologies 2 0 5. Oh. And

Leo Laporte (02:05:18):
This is

Alex Lindsay (02:05:18):
Running over Dante. So this is, yeah, this is over Dante. So you now have so ethernet power, power over ethernet. So you literally have an ethernet cable going into it. You can select a lot of different routing that's inside. So it's got a little control panel that you can, that you can run with it. It also has two talk back buttons. So if you're connected to a comms device or you view in, I have it running through Dante to a com to unity coms. If I push down my, my com You couldn't hear me down there because I cuz my, when I push my coms down, it automatically

Leo Laporte (02:05:50):
Turns it mutes me, but who's, whoever's on the other end of the coms. You say, Hey, can you get me a cup of coffee cuz I'm dying. Exactly.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:55):
So I can do it off my and everything else. I'm got two comms channels that I can work with that. Again, it is, I can go straight into it or I can process Dante. And it's a, it's a really powerful tool. It's a little more than a cough cough button, which I own, I own cough button. So

Leo Laporte (02:06:11):
Wait a minute, John says I can do that too. I mean, so if I press this button, but the,

Alex Lindsay (02:06:16):
The We're are you using for that?

Leo Laporte (02:06:19):
Nothing. I don't think we use this at all, but we have a very fancy thanks to our Axo system. We have, oh, the AIO

Alex Lindsay (02:06:25):
System.

Leo Laporte (02:06:26):
This is, oh yeah, we got all

Alex Lindsay (02:06:27):
Axio module

Leo Laporte (02:06:27):
Talk back mute. I got different program buttons. I gotta dial in the knob and all that stuff. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:06:33):
Axio if you're, if you're working in an Axo system, that's a great control panel. This just works with anything. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:06:38):
Well I use Dante, right?

Alex Lindsay (02:06:40):
Yeah. Which is pretty much everything. I mean, you can like, you can get a Dante virtual sound card on your

Leo Laporte (02:06:44):
Unfortunately Axio doesn't used Dante, so we can't, but if I were building a studio today, actually I love, we love the Axio system and Teo gave it to us, which was very generous to them. Yeah. It's

Alex Lindsay (02:06:54):
A great

Leo Laporte (02:06:54):
System. Q Kirk Carac I will be ever, ever in. You'll be in my memoirs, Kirk. Thank forever grateful. But yeah, if we were gonna build a studio today and we didn't have good friends that tell us that would absolutely

Alex Lindsay (02:07:07):
Be most, most pipeline, most audio pipelines for most events. Yeah. Radio Axia, very popular. Most general purpose is Dante. Yeah. You know, is, is, is how is how things are passed around. And so, so it's a really, you know, it's one of those things. I finally side that I should RO cause I use it literally all day, every day, anytime I'm not talking in a meeting, I, all I have to do is tap a little button and it's love that, you know, I'm off and I, and I Carlene.

Leo Laporte (02:07:29):
Can you get the kids to shut up? Do you, do you provide your wife with a com system? You should. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:07:35):
I don't think she appreciate

Leo Laporte (02:07:36):
That. Where that other,

Alex Lindsay (02:07:38):
You know, I think that would go across the, the, the, the, the ultimate laws of, of marriage, which is a happy wife is a happy life. We just stay away from that one. So

Leo Laporte (02:07:48):
Model 2 0 5 announcers console from studio and technologies, how much

Alex Lindsay (02:07:53):
It's like 800 bucks. So it's, it's not, but it's, there's bigger ones too. It's just a, what's nice about this one is it fits on my desk. So it sits underneath my, my ATEM extreme or whatever. And so I, so I have it, it just, it's just a nice little 

Leo Laporte (02:08:07):
Actually needs a cough button for home. Yeah. Maybe we don't have a com system though. Maybe I can get one to sometimes

Alex Lindsay (02:08:16):
She'll be doing,

Leo Laporte (02:08:16):
She's been doing a lot of podcasts in her office at home. And, and instead of having her go screaming down the hall, the zone just broke out of her. She could just do it on the com system. And I can have a little earpiece. Yeah. Always be ready. That's a good idea. Do that. That's a good idea. Thank you, Alex. Lindsay. Oh nine.media. If you wanna hire Alex to do your next event streaming event, and of course, office hours.global is a fantastic place to hang out when you're not watching MacBreak weekly,

Alex Lindsay (02:08:45):
We have a launch. We have a launch this week, Leo we're launching a rocket.

Leo Laporte (02:08:49):
What?

Alex Lindsay (02:08:50):
We're launching a rocket, is it

Leo Laporte (02:08:52):
SDS, rocket or a real rocket? It's

Alex Lindsay (02:08:54):
A lot more well, so it's not, it's not it's not a, like a Tesla or a SpaceX level rocket, but it's not an Estes rocket either. So this is a fiberglass rocket. It's like 10 feet high. Oh my

Leo Laporte (02:09:04):
God, you guys

Alex Lindsay (02:09:05):
Are nuts. And so no, no, it gets, it gets better. It gets better. It's not just that it's being launched. It is being launched on Saturday at nine, we'll put out some, you can follow me on twittter or whatever, but, but it's, there's I think if you do space, oh, H or whatever, but it's the, it's the space group, the space group. There's like 40 people working on the broadcast. So, so there's from then, they're coming. They're all like descending on little outside of Las Vegas, a guy, one of our members, John Preto is the one that's doing the, doing the launch. And so he's just doing the launch. A couple people start talking, this is what happens in office hours. A couple people start talking about it going, oh, that sounds really cool. And someone said, I can do the graphics and someone else I can do the broadcast. I'll do the,

Leo Laporte (02:09:39):
Can I be Walter Cronkite? We're standing on hold right now.

Alex Lindsay (02:09:43):
We I'm sure we can include you in the, in the broadcast, the, the but we have a, we literally have one of the other members. She just got her me medical medical degree and she's getting ready to be part of a Mars mission in the future. And, and so she really knows a lot about space. And so she's our space. She's one of our, you know, she's gonna be doing commentary and talking about some of the stuff and and she's, she's coming in all Australia. So the other thing is, is there's this global, you know, the graphics are being produced. I think in it's either. I think it's, I think Tomo is in Finland and sorry, Tomo. If I get the, all those countries in there, my head doesn't don't separate. Well, so, so the but they're all coming together to talk about it. And, and so anyways, this we're gonna start the broadcast at eight o'clock on Saturday morning. And and then it will go and I'll post it on twittter or whatever, but it it'll go live at, I mean, should launch, depending on, we literally have to get FFA approval. Like, this is not like a little, little rocket, and they're taking trajectory out of the rockets to push back into the graphics. We think that there's a, there's a chance that our graphics will actually better than SpaceX.

Leo Laporte (02:10:47):
I wanna see. Yeah. I wanna see the, I wanna see the so you're gonna have a camera on the, the rocket that you could see.

Alex Lindsay (02:10:54):
I, I, I think they're doing a camera on the rocket, but they're doing telemetry from the rocket the whole way up. And that telemetry is being driven back to live graphics. So it's what,

Leo Laporte (02:11:02):
When is this gonna be

Alex Lindsay (02:11:03):
This Saturday? This Saturdays Saturday gonna be, yeah, we'll start the broadcast at eight. And and then we'll, we'll at nine o'clock we'll we'll, that's when we like that

Leo Laporte (02:11:13):
Candle rive

Alex Lindsay (02:11:14):
A lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:11:15):
It's gonna be awesome.

Alex Lindsay (02:11:17):
It's gonna be spectacular. Hopefully spectacularly. Good, but it will be spectacular either way,

Leo Laporte (02:11:22):
If it blows up all the more fun.

Alex Lindsay (02:11:24):
Exactly. Exactly.

Leo Laporte (02:11:27):
Andy Ihnatko When are you gonna be on GBH next?

Andy Ihnatko (02:11:30):
1230 in the afternoon. This Friday, just go to w GB H news.org to stream it live or later.

Leo Laporte (02:11:35):
Nice. And mark it,

Andy Ihnatko (02:11:36):
Or, or go to the Boston public library because I'm going to be in the, we're doing it in the studios that we just reopen. So I'm gonna, you can buy a cup of coffee and watch me stumble through notes visibly while audibly. I seem to know what I'm talking about, recalling all of this from memory.

Leo Laporte (02:11:51):
And of course, everybody should go to Bloomberg dot slash subscription slash 'Power On' to get marks. Great newsletter. Thank you all three of you really great show. Really appreciate it. Great to have the insight into what's. What's coming up next. We do MacBreak weekly every Tuesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time, 1900 UTC, sorry, 18 to UTC. Now all you have to do is tune in live.Twit.tv. There's audio or video streams. If you're watching live chat live@ircdottwit.tv, or if you're a club twit member, by the way, we do have video of the rocket going up here on club twit. If you're club twit member, you can Thank you,

Alex Lindsay (02:12:34):
Patrick.

Leo Laporte (02:12:35):
You can join us in the discord dedicated to club twit lots of good stuff going on in there. We've got some events coming up this week, Patrick Delehanty, who is behind the scenes guy, does all the engineering Thursday 9:00 AM. He'll be doing an inside twit. The book club has started, Cory Doctorow's Unauthorized Bread is coming up on the 20 on the 31st Paul Thurrott with a fireside chat. We also have shows in there that we don't publish publicly things like the GI fizz, the untitled Linux show. We also develop shows there club. Twitter is a way that we can do a lot more with a limited amount of money. In fact, you even get ad for versions of the shows cuz you're seven bucks a month means we don't have to play ads for you. So if you'd like to join, if you don't want ads, you wanna be in the discord. You wanna hear the twit plus feed with all the special content, just go to twit.tv/club twit seven bucks a month. I think it's a good deal. A couple of coffees and you two could be riding that rocket ship to the moon.

Leo Laporte (02:13:44):
Please kids. Don't try this at home. After the fact on demand versions of the show available at the website, twit dot M B w there's a dedicated YouTube channel as well. You can catch it there or subscribe in your favorite podcast player. Probably that's the best way to get it that way you get it automatically. You don't have to think about it. You just, whenever you're in the mood, you can listen to MacBreak Weekly. And if your podcast player has a review section, please leave us a five star review that would really help the longest running max show in the world. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next time. Now get back to work. Cuz break time is over

Jason Howell (02:14:19):
The world is changing rapidly so rapidly. In fact that it's hard to keep up. That's why Mikah Sargent and I, Jason Howell, talk with the people, Mikah and I break in the tech news on tech news weekly, every Thursday, they, they know these stories better than anyone. So why not get them to talk about it in their own words, subscribe to tech news weekly and you won't miss a beat every Thursday at TWiT TV.