MacBreak Weekly Episode 814 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Rene, Andy, Alex, they're all here. Yay. Rene's back. We're gonna talk about the big rumors about nine new max. We know they're out there, but when are we gonna get to buy them? There are still major chip shortages, but Apple might have dodged a bullet in the iPhone factory in China and NFL's Sunday ticket. It looks like it's Apples to lose. It's all coming up next on MacBreak Weekly.

... (00:00:33):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:35):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode, 814 reported Tuesday, April 19th, 2020 2 88 88. Ask Leo this episode of MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by Melissa. The us postal service process is more than 98,000. Address changes every day. Make sure your customer content act data is up to date. Try Melissa's APIs in the developer portal. It's easy to log on, sign up and start playing in the API sandbox. 24 7. Get started today with 1000 records. Clean free at melissa.com/twit and by hover, whether you're a developer photographer or small business, hover has something for you to expand your projects and get the visibility you want. Go to hover.com/twit to get 10% off your first purchase of any domain extension for the entire first year and buy Blueland. Stop wasting water and throwing out more plastic. Get blue land's revolutionary refill cleaning system instead. Right now save 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/macbreak It's time for MacBreak Weekly. The show we cover the ladies news Ram. Oh, Apple look who's back. Look who's back. Reneritchie, youtube.com/ReneRitchie of YouTube fame, infa, infamy.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:12):
Hello, Leo,

Leo Laporte (00:02:13):
How you can you, so you tell us why you were in New York.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:16):
I was, I was filming an undisclosed video project with Georgia Dow.

Leo Laporte (00:02:19):
Oh, okay. Nice. Yes, Yes. Wow.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:22):
I just couldn't get the shooting days arranged so that I could get Tuesday off. They're like, no, no. It took us eight hours to set this up. You're gonna sit down in film son.

Leo Laporte (00:02:29):
Wow. That's nice. That's fine. Yep. Yep. But it does dash my hopes that it was some sort of Apple briefing on the latest M two MacBook airs, but okay. I guess,

Rene Ritchie (00:02:38):
Well, they had an, they did have an event in New York and I did stop by, they had at the Apple store at fifth avenue, they had the winners of the macro competition and the photography team. Those are cool from Apple, like D H who runs product and a bunch of the, the app oh, that's and a bunch of the photographers. Yeah, it was really nice to see. And they went through the answered questions. They explained stuff. They had macros set up. So you could go and shoot all these different objects at macro and test it out. And it was very

Leo Laporte (00:03:02):
Fun. Well, hold, hold the thought, put a pin in it. Cuz I wanna introduce the rest of the panel. Not that they need any introduction, ladies and gentlemen, I give you Andy and NACO of WGBH in Boston. Hello Andrew.

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:15):
Hey there. Hi there.

Leo Laporte (00:03:16):
Hey there. Hi there, hold there. I'll also with us from oh nine. Oh media and office hours.global Alex Lindsay, who was on TWiT on Sunday. So I feel like I just saw you a minute ago. It's just here. You were just here and we even made him sit in the same avatar.

Alex Lindsay (00:03:34):
Exactly. You know, I've used this one for a while. I figured

Leo Laporte (00:03:37):
It's all broken in. It fits your, but I think,

Alex Lindsay (00:03:40):
Yeah, I think that the, the, the, the facial captures working pretty well. It's

Leo Laporte (00:03:44):
A little,

Alex Lindsay (00:03:45):
It works pretty well. Yeah. Polygon

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:49):
As always, you look at the, if you look at the eyes, it's like that sort of dead sort of like emotionless, like serial killer eyes. That's like,

Rene Ritchie (00:03:57):
And, and

Leo Laporte (00:03:58):
Think, can you tell the difference actually, did you see that they are doing this with Abba? This is completely not anything to do with Apple, but it is kind of a technology thing. They

Alex Lindsay (00:04:09):
Both started. It's pretty cool. It's yeah. Yeah. The, the it's a pretty cool setup. They, they Mo they went back and built digital versions of Abbot. I think ILM actually is doing this. They, yes, they went, went back and built digital versions and then they did motion capture with the current the, the current artists, you at their current age. And then they're mapping that back on to the, to the CB

Leo Laporte (00:04:30):
I'm I'm showing if you would show my screen. Sorry.

Alex Lindsay (00:04:33):
And yeah, it's pretty pretty good stuff. And then, and then essentially they are then doing the Mo there's the motion capture with the origin artists and then, or the original ABA team. And then what they're doing is putting, putting them onto an E D wall. That's gonna be on stage. And it sounds like the real trick that they're taking advantage of is they're gonna build lighting rigs into the, into the theaters so that it's integrating the lighting with the performance, you know, that's on stage. Cause otherwise it would just be an L E D wall in the age with some CG characters. But,

Leo Laporte (00:05:02):
But, oh, it's not really a hologram then it's a, it's a, it's a screen.

Alex Lindsay (00:05:06):
It may be a hologram, but it'll be very, I mean, it, it could be but, but it will look better if

Leo Laporte (00:05:11):
Don't, they look sad. Andy, are you laughing? And how sad?

Andy Ihnatko (00:05:14):
I'm just saying the, the motion capture suits. Aren't that far off from what they used to wear? No, I know it's yeah, but anything

Alex Lindsay (00:05:21):
Though is the motion capture shoots are, are you really have to have a lot of self confidence to get into one. So

Leo Laporte (00:05:26):
Here's the, this is, so this is just a big screen, but you're saying, because I think so, yeah, with the practical lighting that makes it the

Alex Lindsay (00:05:34):
Practical lighting in the theater is, is that's the, the, the theory the fools behind that.

Leo Laporte (00:05:38):
Well, they had Tupac that was years ago in hall hologram at Coachella. So, and they

Rene Ritchie (00:05:46):
Had Lindi else sing with Elvis on American idol many

Alex Lindsay (00:05:48):
Years ago. And when they say hologram, a lot of times, they're still being projected against some they're projected against some kind of screen. Sometimes it's at an angle. So what, what, what they do is it has a slight angle to it and has a bottom projector that goes up a lot of times, the brightness and the, and the and the quality isn't as high as an E wall can be. So it, it bends and they're spending see, there's the lights that we're talking about. So all of that,

Leo Laporte (00:06:09):
Those are

Alex Lindsay (00:06:10):
Real gonna get tied in. So what'll happen. You can see there, the screen is projecting out things and they're literally grading all of the things into the screen. So when it does things, so does the rest of the

Leo Laporte (00:06:20):
Space and you see that absolutely all the time now in concert performances, I saw a a really wild one in the hockey game where they project onto the ice. And it looks like the ice is falling apart and the Zamboni is gonna fall in. And it's very convincing because it has that, you know, they're doing some Montreal potholes, Leo,

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:40):
That's nothing.

Leo Laporte (00:06:41):
What's that Montreal, that's Montreal potholes in the ice, immersive

Alex Lindsay (00:06:45):
Immersive design. Does those, does that one specifically as a company called immersive design? Yeah. And they, they do a really good

Leo Laporte (00:06:50):
Job. We saw it at the Olympics opening ceremonies and yeah, it's very cool. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:55):
Yeah. And they, their tracker sewn into the NHL player is uniforms now on the shoulders. So they want, yeah. The puck tooth that, and that's, they made great leaps since that, that Fox gimick of, Hey, let's get the kids to watch by making the, the puck into a laser. But it's, it's, it's actually more useful stuff you can say. Well, we're got, we want to basically label people so people can follow the action. Given that it's a tiny little, even at HD, it's a tiny dot on a white background. We can, we can do things to make this, this game more easy to ascertain. This

Alex Lindsay (00:07:26):
Was, it's also more easy to get data like the,

Leo Laporte (00:07:28):
This isn't, this isn't even new. This was 20 16, 20 17 at the black Hawks projecting, projecting onto the ice, turning it into a machine. And, and it's funny. It really does feel like they're coming up out of the screen. It,

Alex Lindsay (00:07:45):
It looks really good from one side,

Leo Laporte (00:07:47):
Right? Yes. It looks perfect. All those

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:49):
Ads on

Alex Lindsay (00:07:49):
The side that they're, it looks really good. It's just look the same on the, on both sides.

Leo Laporte (00:07:52):
Right. You can

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:53):
Oversell the, yeah, but you're, you're you're right, Alex, but I I've read an article a couple of weeks ago. How now there's part, part of negotiations between players, unions and teams, is that, look, if you collect data on us, on our performance, that data belongs to us. You can't like you then use that data to either improve training models or basically pass this, sell this data to the next person who's considering signing us to a contract so they can find some weird, stupid, unbiased, unfounded algorithm, reason to, to, to turn us down. I,

Alex Lindsay (00:08:26):
I don't know why. I don't know what the, what data that they're they're owning, but I can tell you that I've seen some of the data from some of these sports teams, and it's pretty amazing. It's, it's all your speeds of every play. It is how often you touch the puck, how, how, how close you were, how, and you're on one side of, you know, wherever you are in the quadrants. I mean, it's pretty, pretty dense.

Leo Laporte (00:08:45):
So

Andy Ihnatko (00:08:45):
What do they do with that? Do they pivot

Leo Laporte (00:08:46):
Table it? And then change pivot table. I

Alex Lindsay (00:08:49):
Can

Andy Ihnatko (00:08:51):
Put, put, put one good goon on the ice, one serious enforcer.

Rene Ritchie (00:08:54):
And that, that negates all the data. It's a not go a knocks, checking everybody, somebody.

Alex Lindsay (00:09:01):
Yeah. When you have that much data, you, it actually, you can do some pretty interesting things. You, you you'll notice things that you won't notice just watching the game. Like, you know, I did a time lapse of construction, one time for a big company. And we notice that the, that one of the, the carpenters was constantly walking back and forth. You don't notice that when you're in real time, but in Mo in, in time labs, you notice that you see this guy bouncing back and forth, and we realize he is losing like two hours a day. And it was because there was a little hump in the ground and he couldn't pull his kid over it. Oh, wow. And, and it was, but they're literally losing that much for one person. And so they moved the hump. And then now he's just, he has a sitting next to him.

Leo Laporte (00:09:36):
Yeah. I read somewhere that automobile SP 10 gigabytes of data a second. If you were to track it all, so you need massive data sets.

Rene Ritchie (00:09:44):
That's why Elon needs Neurolink.

Leo Laporte (00:09:46):
Yeah, that's right. Anyway, that was a little side side venture. I just want to put this in in, in the, into the space. If anybody wants to make a 3d Leo, that goes forever. Go ahead. It's free. I don't assert any copyright. Please. We

Rene Ritchie (00:10:04):
Could make you a YouTuber. Leo, you could be a synthetic YouTuber. You could just have a, like, just do the show forever.

Leo Laporte (00:10:08):
He keeps showing up. We can't get rid of him. Macro photography shot on iPhone macro challenge. The winners. You were there at the announcement at the yeah. New York store. Let's look at some of these. Ooh, what sea glass like Guido Castelli. That's so pretty iPhone 13 max. Very pretty. That's from wino. Air's there's a nice flower. The cave. It's a hibiscus Marco Colletta, iPhone 13 pro what did they tell you? This is from Italy, Talia, spiderweb, art and nature. PRJ wall Tru UL from India. Wow.

Rene Ritchie (00:10:55):
They had four, they had four of the more local winners there. They were all very excited and yeah, I bet it was just, it was a lot of detail about the stuff that like, it's hard to imagine all the, like, it's not just an Instagram camera. A lot of cameras look great on Instagram, but that team is so extra. Like they do a lot of work to make the greens really green. The reds really red, like far beyond what any reasonable company should pay money for to have them go to that level. But they, they think of about like, what's they detect, they charge to detect what's out of the frame in case you move in that direction, they can focus on it faster. And they just, they leverage everything that they can get out of all the Silicon and all the, the camera systems to, to basically make it as easy as possible for you to snap a picture of the second you want to,

Leo Laporte (00:11:32):
And this is hard to do by the way. Look at the snowflake in here. That's that's Don Cuka. And

Rene Ritchie (00:11:37):
Those are like, when those were those on the big wall, like the giant screen, and you could see that snowflake in vivid detail.

Leo Laporte (00:11:43):
So this is Alex tough to do, right? Because macro photography, the focal plane is so shallow with a stand with a regular phone, with a DSLR. It's, it's very hard to do.

Alex Lindsay (00:11:57):
It is hard to do it. It's really fun though. I mean, I, I will say I take so many macro photos with my, with my camera. Nothing as good as this. I don't.

Leo Laporte (00:12:04):
You need to set up, need a trip. Tripo do you use lights? Things

Alex Lindsay (00:12:06):
Like that. No, I'm, I'll be on a walk. I'll be on a walk and just, and just literally go, oh, that looks cool. And I'll just lean up it in, in inside of a, a flower or something to, you know, and, and it's it's, it's, it's a really fun thing to do. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:12:19):
Yeah. But I have to say the computational photography that the phone could do really is an assist because focusing, for instance, this is a drop of water on a leaf. Right. Focusing it, in fact, this looks like it's got pretty good depth of field, which

Rene Ritchie (00:12:36):
Yeah. They don't have big glass or big sensor, like, so they have to use big compute. Right? It's all they can do to compensate for the lack of Z index.

Alex Lindsay (00:12:44):
And, and if it's low light, you can see it. Like you can see that it did a little extra work. So you do have to give it a fair bit of light to get it to right. To be, to look relatively smooth when it's has to fight when it's doing the computational photography and it's a little grainy it, it, you see

Leo Laporte (00:12:57):
It garbage in garbage out. You have to have enough information to make it work. Still, wow. This, this, it looks every bit as good as, you know, a high quality DSLR, maybe better within the hands of a train professional. So nice job. These are all iPhone 13 pro maxes, I think. Yeah. No, some are just pros.

Rene Ritchie (00:13:19):
Just pro. Yeah. Well, the Promax the only ones that have macro mode. Yeah, yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:13:23):
Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:13:23):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:24):
Nice. Could you do this at a 12 asks? I'm asking for a friend. I, no,

Rene Ritchie (00:13:31):
You, I mean, you can get close, but you can't actually, you won't actually go into a macro mode. It won't give you that, that focal length. That's

Leo Laporte (00:13:37):
Why Apple's telling everybody about it.

Rene Ritchie (00:13:40):
It's basically the ultra wide camera that they just dual purpose for a macro. Some, some cameras, some phones put like a secondary two megapixel macro, just so they can have a higher number of cameras on their spec sheet. And that two megapixel cameras, just a crime it's it's it's horrible. So like the better camera phones use the ultra wide camera and use that for the macros. Are they

Leo Laporte (00:14:00):
Doing image stacking? Do they take multiple images as well? Yes.

Rene Ritchie (00:14:03):
Okay. Bracketing and stacking. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:14:05):
Bracketing and stacking baby.

Rene Ritchie (00:14:06):
Yeah. That's basically what you do is you take so many foot because the Silicon is so fast and there's not a lot of data. These aren't huge lenses. Like some people wonder why can't Canon do this. Like, there's just so much information coming off, like a, a real camera lens. And they don't have the same Silicon, but when you have a camera lens that has this much data and you have a chip set, as powerful as any of the modern SOCs, you can just crunch so many images at one time, everything up till night mode, you can basically do in real time on an iPhone now.

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:32):
Yeah. It's, it's almost unfair. It's almost unfair. How many samples that they, a camera is taking? It's true, true for most phone cameras, but especially the, the Apple iPhone camera. How many, how many different pictures it's taking in one burst and then combining all that data it's this is, this is why this is why so many people get disappointed when they say, you know what, for the I'm having, my first kid is being born. I'm gonna buy a real camera. And then they're explain a minute. This is not taking nearly as good pictures as my phone.

Rene Ritchie (00:15:01):
It's all dark. I

Alex Lindsay (00:15:02):
Can't see anything. Yeah. I mean, generally people ask me now, like, what camera should I get? I said, just get a good phone. Yeah. Just

Rene Ritchie (00:15:07):
Get

Alex Lindsay (00:15:07):
A, like, when you're getting started. I mean, for composition process, you can do a lot of that without a reg yeah. A regular camera.

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:15):
You have, you have to be at a certain level of, I, I, I don't wanna say at a certain level, but I mean, at a certain level of awareness, a certain level of desires of goals to really, really see a big difference because the, their biggest for, to be absolutely honest Absolut. Absolutely. There's I absolutely just disagree with people who say, well, there's no difference between a phone and a standalone camera anymore. There absolutely is. And it's usually in those fine details that are the difference between pictures that always look good on Instagram and pictures that are good enough that, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll blow it up to eight type eight by 10 and put it on the sofa table. And that's, and, and, and, and that's usually the difference between the two, but for most people who just the thing is if you, you don't care about, oh my God, there's so there's so much like purple fringing on the background of that. Certain, that, that flare in the background. No, I wanna pick, I wanna see that image of my, of my kid. I don't care that I don't care if there's a tiny little technical thing. That means that I can't use it as a bus ad.

Alex Lindsay (00:16:12):
Well, and, and part of it's convenience. Cause I can definitely tell the difference. I mean, even with my old five D mark two, it's not very high resolution. I mean, it's 24 megapixels or whatever, but it's, and I'm taking lots of those photos and I can definitely everyone. I, I run into the photos that I took, even my DX O is still better than the iPhone, as far as image quality and the little one that used to put on the iPhone. Yeah. That one inch sensor. Yeah. When I hit those images, you go, oh, that was, those are really great photos. The problem is, is that other than the DX O one, but with regular cameras, most of them don't have GPS and they don't have time and they don't have. And so the thing is, is that I there's so many things that I just search for a location like, oh, where's that photo? I'm just gonna search for Washington DC or Istanbul or Kali, or, you know, sea re and it's just gonna show me all the photos I took with my phone. It's not gonna show me any of the photos I took with my still camera. That's really hard. It's

Rene Ritchie (00:16:59):
Super, the super annoying thing is now if you actually work, if you have to do all this stuff for like a business, you need both now because there, the iPhone, no camera phone can actually produce the, the images that a camera can produce, especially a high end camera. So like almost every YouTuber will still have a 5,000, $20,000 camera, but you will see all of them, even the ones who hate the iPhone or the passion use Android all day, every day, they will put down that camera and pull out an iPhone. If they are trying to shoot something that moves from bright into dark light, because nothing else can adjust that fast or give you that kind of consistency in an image. And also when there are, there are some images that you take and I've heard at least a couple examples of ILM having to do this too, where you take a couple shots just for setup stage and a camera can't reproduce the lighting that you got with the iPhone.

Rene Ritchie (00:17:42):
So those iPhone shots end up getting snuck into like the, these big motion pictures, just because they caught them and they couldn't reproduce them in a standard way. So it it's, it's frustrating cuz you can't get a silhouette. Like it's better now. But for a while, photographer are saying, I can't get a silhouette with the iPhone. It exposes everything. And it's the most annoying camera in the world. But sometimes you need to like expose a lot more stuff like as a background is that's what you give up. God, I have this in my tool. You give

Leo Laporte (00:18:05):
Up control. So while the phone's gonna do a better job, in many, many cases, you give up the ability to say, but oh no, don't expose the, I want a silhouette. Well

Alex Lindsay (00:18:16):
With the, the stock, camera's hard to do that with, but if you're like shooting video and you use something like filmic, you know, you're gonna have something, get a lot of that back manual

Leo Laporte (00:18:22):
Controls. Oh.

Rene Ritchie (00:18:23):
And maybe Alex knows this too. Like Netflix just put a whole list of how to shoot with an iPhone for Netflix, which is unprecedented, oh, you have to use film and you have to use very specific settings, but the iPhone 12 and 13 are now approved for 4k Netflix cinema cinematography use.

Alex Lindsay (00:18:37):
Wow. I don't know that they want, I don't know if they'd want you to shoot the whole film that way, but, but the but they may, and, and a lot of times, again, a lot of us are using those as little pickup shots inserts and so on and so forth. And all of us, every time I'm someone wants to do, do it with an iPhone, it's always filmic. And it's always here exactly the settings that you need to set it to because it's really easy in film. Film has all these things that, that you can set it to and people get wonky about it and you have to set it to the right frame rate and you have to set it to the right compression rate and you have to set all those things up before you get going. But but now that it shoots ProRes and it's got a really, really good image, it's actually the, the content fills up your phone really quickly, but it's but as long as you're ready to, to have a couple of them, it's like, it's like the phone has become the mag.

Alex Lindsay (00:19:19):
You know, we used to, you know, the film that we used to put in was the mag that we'd put into the camera. Now the phone is like, you just shoot with this phone for a little while and then you hand it off to somebody, get another phone and start shooting with it because you, you filled it up and you'll take two long to offload it than, than does just have another phone, stupid line.

Leo Laporte (00:19:34):
This is the page on Netflix. Non-Approved cameras recommended settings of best practices. There's situations where the ideal camera for a particular shot may not be on our approved list, but if you're gonna use it, this is, this is what you should should have it set at. Right. it's interesting. I want, I, there are a number of places online that have, you know, supposed settings for film,

Rene Ritchie (00:19:59):
Film,

Alex Lindsay (00:19:59):
Tweeted it out.

Rene Ritchie (00:20:00):
The net, the Netflix approved setting it's

Leo Laporte (00:20:02):
Hysterical

Rene Ritchie (00:20:02):
Three or four days ago. I mean

Alex Lindsay (00:20:04):
The, I mean, and that, by the way, I we've talked about that before that net, if you're a filmmaker or you're shooting video, the Netflix thing, standards is just the best place to go for a recommendation of how to do something. Like, it's just, it's an incredible, I mean, they have so many things and so many processes that they want everyone to, to, to follow. And it's, they've thought about it a lot. Like, you know, they there's been a lot of meetings and discussions to put things on that page. You, you might wanna read it before you go shoot something. It's pretty,

Leo Laporte (00:20:32):
They know what they're doing. Oh yeah, yeah. It's incredible

Alex Lindsay (00:20:35):
Resource to lot of experience. Yeah. They have, they, they have over 1500 producers working for them. Wow. On films. Like you just gotta get it. Like it's a big, it's a big machine, you know? And, and it's, and they have to, the reason they have all those standards and the reason they publish them is because it's just, they're just creating such a massive amount of content. And if people stop, start stepping off that path, it makes, it puts a wrench in the whole system. Did

Leo Laporte (00:21:00):
They say at the Apple event that the macro photos that we're seeing were taking with just the stock settings or did they talk about may annual settings?

Rene Ritchie (00:21:08):
They didn't say, I didn't say what it was taken. I believe that they, it had to be like just a, they didn't even say anything about filters, but I don't believe any of them were overly filtered or even filtered at all

Leo Laporte (00:21:16):
Either. Yeah. I mean, so there's a lot of questions. Like, did you use lighting? Did you use Photoshop? Did you, what settings did you use? A lot of questions. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:21:24):
No, they don't accept Photoshop. They don't accept any like, so you can't

Leo Laporte (00:21:27):
As a camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of the camera. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's why demand for the iPhone. 13 is high. Everybody wants to take macro photos. This is no Apple does not talk, but various analysts release in information. Apple insider has a note from JP Morgan analyst chati and I think they do surveys of the sell through people like the Verizon stores and so forth. He says at, at and T Verizon T-Mobile iPhones are accounting for 60% of shipments. That's lower than the iPhone share prior to the launch of the galaxy S to 22, but still higher than any previous year. The analyst says this implies a structurally higher market share for Apple in 2022. And then in past years, that's the good news. Bad news is iPhone se demand is lower than expected. According to their survey 56% of representatives said that is muted in 2022. The man for the third generation iPhone se the, the analyst says may even be lower than the second generation launched two years ago.

Andy Ihnatko (00:22:40):
I wonder how much of that is just due to the fact that it looks like an old phone, you know, the, the fact that it has that button right on the front there, the fact it has, it has the bezzles. And,

Leo Laporte (00:22:50):
And it's not significantly smaller either, right? Yeah. If it were, if it were a mini, maybe there'd be a market cuz it's smaller, but now yeah, you're right. It looks like it's just an old phone. Looks like a, what is

Alex Lindsay (00:23:02):
It? And it's also, it adds up, it adds up, you know, you're you're, I just, I just got one from one of my kids and, and you know, it's 420 a nine and then you're like, well, 64 seems really anemic. We get bump up a little bit on the memory and then, and then you get the case and then you get thinking now, now you're up to almost six or over $600. That's a lot

Leo Laporte (00:23:20):
That

Alex Lindsay (00:23:20):
Kid. Yeah. Once you go down that path, you're kind of like, well I might as well just go something bigger or I might as well get something else or something used. And so it's, it is, I mean, I just bought one, it's the right thing for what I was line, but it was still like a little like, mm. I could have almost gone a little bit higher and just started going into the new, newer, more built or the more built up versions of things.

Leo Laporte (00:23:39):
Smartphone sales in the first quarter did fall globally, 11% Apple falling from the top spot to second place behind Samsung. But I think some of that is recession inflation. That

Rene Ritchie (00:23:51):
Always happens as part of this. Like

Leo Laporte (00:23:52):
As well. Yeah. It's all sluggish seasonal demand. Exactly. If I had to

Rene Ritchie (00:23:57):
Guess, like Apple's been historically bad at, at demand forecasting for iPhone se going back to the original iPhone se where they didn't make enough of them. And now they're making two who many of them. And I think it's that this, this phone is really not a new phone. Like basically they took, there was a four years between the iPhone and the iPhone se two. And then there was only two years between the iPhone se three. And I think normally they would've waited and done like an iPhone 11 style iPhone se three, two years from now, but they just wanted to get 5g into everything. So my guess is this is selling as well as a previous iPhone se with an injection of 5g. And that's, it, it didn't spur sales, but people who were, would already buy an iPhone se just got a nicer iPhone se now.

Leo Laporte (00:24:33):
Yeah. And if you want macro photography, you're underneath the pro max. That's just clear. Yeah. Yeah baby. Yeah, baby.

Alex Lindsay (00:24:41):
I will say my, my wife has a older phone and every time we, we go to like a kit, one of our kids functions, she's like, oh, you just take the video. I don't wanna,

Leo Laporte (00:24:50):
You got good foot. I actually, Alex

Rene Ritchie (00:24:52):
Is doing it. Lisa

Leo Laporte (00:24:53):
Has a 13, I have a 12. And I do I say to Lisa, this is now your, your

Alex Lindsay (00:24:57):
Responsibility. If

Rene Ritchie (00:24:58):
I had to guess also I'm gonna guess that 2020 was similar to 2016, that where it's gonna end up being a super cycle where it pulled a bunch of upgrades for, or word it's. Not that they sold more stuff. Like it looks like they sold more stuff, but they really sold stuff that people were planning to buy later. Cuz everyone was suddenly working from home or was bored. And there was a bunch of exciting new tech out. And so they just bought, but now they're not gonna buy for several more years. So if that was like a 2016 Supercycle, well we're getting into like the 2018 lull while all those people just enjoy the stuff they bought previous year.

Leo Laporte (00:25:27):
I think, I can't remember, but the details, but I think they also said Apples refurbished phone sales were, were, were very strong as well. So that's the other way to go, you know the value. Yeah, yeah. Get a, get a, you know, where they buy it back and they've refurbished it and they sell it. That's a very brisk, oh, I know where that story is. We'll get to that. That's in their recycling store, which is very, very they're doing

Rene Ritchie (00:25:50):
Better than new egg lately

Leo Laporte (00:25:51):
With the whole they're doing really well stuff. Yeah. But before we go, go, go to that. I do wanna mention good news. As you know, much of China is being shut down now due to new COVID restrictions, including all of Shanghai Foxconn's largest iPhone plant though somehow has escaped that shutdown. The shutdown in JJO China which is where there's a major Foxcon a plant apparently did not shut down the Foxcon plant. Foxcon managers have told local news outlets production. This is according to Bloomberg is continuing with 200,000 workers as supply lines have not been affected, even though a quarantine was implemented late Friday, they

Alex Lindsay (00:26:35):
Robots

Rene Ritchie (00:26:35):
Know what they using robots.

Alex Lindsay (00:26:37):
You know, they say that an Apple a day keeps the

Leo Laporte (00:26:43):
It's interesting. I wonder this is the iPhone city plant. You know, that Fox con has, right. I wonder if economics are influencing that decision. Like John Joe is being shut down, but let's not shut down iPhone city.

Rene Ritchie (00:26:58):
Maybe they have a literal motor around the building.

Leo Laporte (00:27:00):
Maybe Pegatron I've been forced to halt production. They won't start up again until late this month or early may Quanta, which makes the MacBook pro also shut down. So there are slow big slowdowns coming for some Apple products. And we've noted. I think we mentioned this last week that the ship dates now for us Mac Apple Mac studio are now off 12 weeks.

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:26):
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's serious business. Rene wasn't that far off, when he talked about a moat, there are like their actual gates being erected around neighborhoods. So it's so severe that someone, I saw a video of someone who just went out for to get groceries. And then by the time they came back, these gates were up. They came of get back into their homes.

Leo Laporte (00:27:44):
Oh God. Yeah. Oh. And

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:46):
The people and the people who are in and the people who are inside are basically completely dependent on whatever, whatever plans the government has to deliver food, water medical assistance, whatever. And it's, it's a very, very bad situation. When I, when I heard about the, about Foxcon I was wondering maybe they just justified it by saying that well, they are, a lot of our workers are living in dorms. We can actually, while they're being quarantined and contained, they may as well be

Leo Laporte (00:28:13):
They keep working. Yeah, yeah. Could be, could be this is, this is gonna, there's gonna be a short the next year. I think at this point it is, I think

Andy Ihnatko (00:28:25):
People are really

Leo Laporte (00:28:25):
Suffering down there. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:28:27):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:30):
Dejavu all over again. Let's talk about that. Recycling story Apple is doing quite well. They say now 20% of all material used in their products last year was recycled 20 sent. This is from the Apple environmental progress report recycled gold certificate. This is and, and they're, and as I said, they're reselling a lot of phones. It's a PDF. I can't open

Rene Ritchie (00:29:00):
It. Shoot. And Sarah deci on, on YouTube got to go to the plant yesterday and shot a video showing Daisy, just disassemble, disassemble all.

Leo Laporte (00:29:09):
Oh yeah. They talked about those robots, which I have mocked Liam and yes. All of those because, well, how many number five

Rene Ritchie (00:29:15):
Is a live

Leo Laporte (00:29:15):
Li I guess it's true. They, they really are. They really are doing it. Never,

Andy Ihnatko (00:29:19):
Never, never name your work animals by when it comes time to slaughter, just complicate the decision

Rene Ritchie (00:29:25):
Break, slaughter us. You can see how fast days it can take apart a human, which he gets going.

Leo Laporte (00:29:29):
It's just, Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (00:29:32):
We know the wars, common Leo. We just dumb enough to keep building them all the way to DC on that one. They warned us, they warned us with Terminator and with matrix and we didn't listen.

Andy Ihnatko (00:29:42):
Didn't listen, please, please. Don't start agreeing with Elon Musk on everything. That's, that's a, that's a bad, that's a bad path.

Rene Ritchie (00:29:50):
I'm agreeing with James Cameron and I don't, I forgot who made the matrix. They were cha skis.

Leo Laporte (00:29:54):
They were CHASS skis. They were Choki. I'm trying to find the this is a beautiful, were lots of pictures, impossible to find the bottom line. Of course.

Andy Ihnatko (00:30:05):
In, in the meantime, in the matrix where you can, you could basically look like anything and wear like anything they're choosing pleather, trench coat

Leo Laporte (00:30:13):
Rubber. Really? Yeah. It's sexy. Come

Andy Ihnatko (00:30:15):
On, have some style. You can, you could look like David Bowie during the thin white duke era, but so let's, let's have let's rubber rain coats. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:30:24):
Maybe a little Sears sucker action. That wouldn't be so bad. Rubber rain coats, please. All right. Well, I'm not gonna go through the whole thing. You can download it and and read it. There's it's it's, you know, it's, it's kinda like one of those quarterly you know, corporate, quarterly reports. Yeah. Hard to find the, I I'm have to find an article where somebody read bottom, bottom line and bottom line. It

Rene Ritchie (00:30:47):
It's gotta be a Mac room as people on that.

Andy Ihnatko (00:30:49):
Yeah. I mean that, but that, that does that, that does point to like how committed they are to this both, both as responsible corporate citizens, but also as we believe that this is a, this is something, this, this is part of us that we want people to know about. This is part of us that we are very proud of. If they, if they were just making reports to basically satisfy a whole bunch of requirements, they might have internationally. There's, there's simpler ways to do that than having typography and having photos and having this really, really long detailed, no, not, not burden with charts and graphs. This is basically, we want to explain exactly everything that we're doing. I do think that the times I've talked to Apple people about this, they feel as though this is one area in which they can kind of demonstrate that this is what a large company is capable of doing.

Andy Ihnatko (00:31:35):
So if a competitor or, or a non-com competitor even says that this is impossible, we can't recycle at this level, no, this component, there's no way to reuse this material or that the reason why they're documenting this is to say, well, actually, yes, absolutely. We can do this. Here's how it's being done. And so this is there, there are a lot of areas in which Apple decides to be use. Its use its size to be a good influence, to be an influencer on good things that are not necessarily on the best interest of just on the best interests of Apple and environment is one of those things. It's one of those areas where, when Apple says something, I do believe that they're being sincere about their motives for it.

Leo Laporte (00:32:11):
It's true. Somebody in the charm saying it would be even better. If you could repair your phone

Andy Ihnatko (00:32:16):
Again,

Leo Laporte (00:32:17):
There aren't ways to make any, this is a good demographic.

Rene Ritchie (00:32:20):
You people

Leo Laporte (00:32:20):
Could, if, yeah. I wouldn't know how. Yeah. This is, that's a use of recycled materials over time. These are products on the left, launched in 2017, up to 2021 and the black squares are recycled projects. See, they're a hundred percent recycled, 10 for instance, a hundred percent recycled rear earth elements. The iPhone is now recycled gold. And so there's a, there's definite improvement here. It's very clear. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:32:45):
Closing have, have we, have we talked about that yet? Where after, after Google decided to get on the, I fix at bandwagon no. If you wanna buy a replacement parts for pixels, go to go to IIX it they'll sell you. The they'll sell you genuine parts. We won't get in the way of it mean mile Apple. Hasn't moved a lot on the, the, the, the big news that we've had so far was that under, if you go down seven flights of stairs into the basement, behind a locked door, under a leather lock door, and look in a file cabinet underneath the line called beware of the leopard, we might allow you to buy this kind of component if you are qualified by our screening per process. And we haven't seen any, any movement on that yet. Yeah. Whereas Apples, excuse me. I think they don't have on,

Rene Ritchie (00:33:25):
They don't wanna say it, but I think they just don't have the parts. Like they can't keep up with, make it with selling the actual phones. And they announced this not anticipating that we would still be here from two years and they're just like, we can barely get phones on the shelves. We don't wanna say anything cuz you're gonna get mad at us. But I, and I think Google has the parts for the pixel, which I'm not saying they'd be a jerk. I just think that they do

Leo Laporte (00:33:42):
No, they probably do. They probably do. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:33:44):
Well also, well also Samsung Samsung benefits by being both a manufacturer of all those components as well as was the back to the phone, but still at least prompts you to ask the question of, were they really, really serious about this? Or was this just a where hoping this will blow over or we're hoping that we can regulate our way out of this. It's it's, it's a good time for Apple. Talk about it. Pick three,

Rene Ritchie (00:34:08):
Pick three things we know we can deliver. It'll get everyone off our back. Just pick three things. The easier three things screens, can you do screen? Okay, we can do screens then they're like we don't have on screen.

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:17):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:34:18):
So one other thing Apple's done, which I, everybody noticed when we got, if you got a Mac studio or a Mac studio display is the really kind of cool packaging. There's a reason they were using corrugated fiber rather than foam for shock absorption. They say that avoided more than 400 metric tongues of plastic. It was a very

Alex Lindsay (00:34:39):
Oil, like that's the one thing was like, this is a really big package for the thing that I got. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:34:45):
They have to protect it, right?

Alex Lindsay (00:34:47):
No, no. I understand that. I was just like, I, I understand they, they saved the plastic. I'm just wondering if, you know, sometimes what happens is we go, well, it's, it's good for the environment in this side, but what

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:55):
Happens to

Leo Laporte (00:34:55):
The, how do they make the Corg fiber?

Alex Lindsay (00:34:57):
Like ethanol is not the

Leo Laporte (00:35:00):
Right. They eliminated all plastic packaging in the iPhone, 13 and 13 pro no polypropylene wrap around the box. You might have noticed including

Rene Ritchie (00:35:10):
The charger.

Leo Laporte (00:35:11):
Yeah. They eliminated the charger. So they said we wanted to retain the benefits of plastic wrap without the environmental impact while creating a more accessible boxing experience. So they, they developed this alternative that relies on and I didn't get into 13. So you can verify this two small fiber based pull tabs, which is, I think nicer, it's a lot easier to open. Yep. That avoided the yeah. That they, for the polypropylene wrap on the iPhones, 600 metric, tons of plastic, they have

Rene Ritchie (00:35:44):
A more elaborate in depth and, and just insane packaging design team than most companies have actual product design teams. That team is so good. So smart. It's kind of so well funded. It's just, it's like, or like little or we statues everything that they make in into packaging.

Leo Laporte (00:35:58):
They also talk about responsible sourcing of the fiber. So they are aware of that as well for reduced PLA pack plastic and packaging by 75%, since 2015. Good on you, Apple.

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:10):
Yeah. No, absolutely. I, I would love to see a feature article or featured documentary about the people who design packaging for those

Leo Laporte (00:36:17):
Boxes were amazing.

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:19):
I, I'm not kidding. I have. So I'm I'm I had to like go, absolutely do do one of those things you do every five years where even Preme condo, I'm like, I have to put my hands on every single thing I own to make sure that's something that I still need to have or store and got got into this big, huge box. I didn't what it was and was just like the last time I moved, I was saving every single, like really cool Apple box. And there's so many of them that even now I'm like, I know I don't, I don't even O I don't even use this, this, this set headphones anymore, but the box is just such a beautiful object and this, the corners are absolutely square. You could, you could, you could hurt

Alex Lindsay (00:36:55):
Yourself with it. And I, and it feels

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:56):
Like I, I, I need to, I need save this, cuz I'm gonna have something important. I wanna save in this, in a box like this. They're just even, even yeah. On a top shelf, they look beautiful

Alex Lindsay (00:37:06):
And it ruins your experience with everybody else. If they don't, if everyone doesn't keep up with it, you open it up. And you're like, oh, that's on Apple. Like, oh, they put that little sticker there. They have extra tape. Or they, this is, this is, you know, you're, you're just like, oh, these, you know, like why a little, little tension is detail here. Like, it, it is very much like I I've become very judgemental buying so many Apple products. So when I open a box, I'm like, I make a decision about the, about the company pretty quickly. So yeah. It's usually, it's not a good decision. I think,

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:30):
I think I see, I think, I think that's, I think that says a lot positive or negative about us as a, as a, as a fan base that now that like the phones are really, really close to each other and you can't necessarily say that, oh, hands down, Apple has the best phone. Oh, okay. But look at that box. Look at the box that damn pixel came in.

Leo Laporte (00:37:47):
It's like, so UHS addressing repairability. There's a whole page on, they call it longevity. But this is interesting. The first generation iPhone, the only thing could be repaired was the SIM tray.

Rene Ritchie (00:38:04):
You could knock out dents, knock out dents in the back of that. You said just like you couldn't yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:38:09):
Maybe a big suction cup in the iPhone,

Andy Ihnatko (00:38:11):
Complaining

Leo Laporte (00:38:12):
Repairable, a retail stores, Apple authorized service providers and central repair locations. SIM tray, battery haptics, rear camera, main logic board lay bottom speaker, top speaker and enclosure. So that, I mean, they're definitely paying attention to repairability. They don't let third parties perhaps do it, or maybe they don't have the parts to sell, but they definitely are paying attention to that as they should. And they talk about the self-service repair. So that's, you know, that's important too. I think you're right though. Rene, they would probably like it to be even more expansive. If they only had the parts to do it, they

Rene Ritchie (00:38:49):
Could get some easy wins here. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:38:50):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It seems like they, they certainly wanna do it. They talk, talk about recycling. They talk about Liam and the other and the other robots Daisy, Daisy, disassembly robots. We're optimizing how our robots function, enabling a robot to feel by using high frequency force feedback in machine learning. So it can adjust

Rene Ritchie (00:39:12):
Iphone seconds, Leo. And you're calling me it like alarmist

Alex Lindsay (00:39:17):
It's to feel by, by going through empathy sessions, empathy. We talk about it. Empathy, empathy. How do you feel? You don't feel anything yet? Let's talk about your circuitry there.

Rene Ritchie (00:39:24):
And Liam spends Liam. No, it's we just don't remember. This was like this, there was this one epi like when Joshs weed was writing the ex the X-Men for a while, he figured out that their computers were so used to violence. They would have learned violence. And all this thing does is destroy iPhones. So I'm just saying you've built a machine and you've trained it to destroy. I

Leo Laporte (00:39:42):
Know how to take this apart. Tale.

Rene Ritchie (00:39:44):
What about you?

Leo Laporte (00:39:45):
Funny thing,

Alex Lindsay (00:39:46):
The funny thing is we, we had a, we, I was working in an artificial life company a long time ago and we would train this little, this little dude, his little four-legged creature to you, of them feedback, like good, good, good, good, good, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And if you started giving it cross you know, like you would sometimes tell it, tell it was good and sometimes tell it was bad when it got to the stimulus that you were doing that around, it would start to shiver because it couldn't figure out which way it should go learn help.

Rene Ritchie (00:40:13):
And I realized, and

Alex Lindsay (00:40:14):
We realized like, I, it gave me a whole insight into people of like, you know, giving people cross, you know, like telling them something's good or bad and with the same stimulus. Oh yeah. It was, it was like,

Rene Ritchie (00:40:24):
Yeah, they did that with mice, Press a button and get a reward or they press a button and get shocked. And if they couldn't tell which was gonna happen, they just sat down on the floor and cried

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:33):
2001, two, 2001 space. Oey how went nuts because it was given to completely conflicting orders of its equal importance. That's

Alex Lindsay (00:40:41):
Right.

Leo Laporte (00:40:42):
Very, if you, if you're interested, I, I recommend downloading the environmental progress report and they've had it audited by independent third party. And you know, it really, I have to say it's pretty darn impressive. I, you know, there's a certain amount of greenwashing that all corporations do, but in this case it seems like the there's a clear commitment to making their stuff better and given how much they sell and make that's a, that's a big deal.

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:06):
Yeah. If you, if you want, just to do a PR exercise, there are simpler and cheaper ways to do it than what they're doing here. So this is again why I tend to believe them when there's sincerity here. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:41:16):
All right. Let's take a little break. Come back with more. We've got a great panel as always.

Rene Ritchie (00:41:20):
In

Leo Laporte (00:41:20):
Fact, the entire team is here. Reneritchie from U of YouTube fame, Mr. Andy Anaco of public radio fame, Alex Lindsay of 24 7 working fame. You did the double IIC. He did it, the double Isaac on the low boat. Our show today brought you bartender. Our show today brought to you by Melissa. Hey, if you have a business and you have a list of customers or addresses suppliers, contact, you should know it's rotting away. As we speak it. The people move addresses, change emails, change, phone numbers, change names, change. There is a way to keep your data more up to date. And that's the address experts Melissa, to ensure your business is successful. Customer information has to be accurate. Melissa is the leading provider of global data quality and address management solutions. 37 years in the business that gives you some idea of how experienced they are completely independent.

Leo Laporte (00:42:23):
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Leo Laporte (00:44:15):
And if you say at it for a service level agreement, you're gonna love their 24 7 world famous support. They are the best in the business and it's not just me that says it. They were named to the data quality magic quadrant by Gartner for the second year in a row. This year G G2 crowds 2022 report ranks Melissa as a leader in address verification and data quality software. Look you need Melissa, make sure your customer contact date is up to date. Try Melissa's APIs in the developer portal. You can just log on and sign up and start playing in the sandbox. 24 7 at melissa.com/twi. Get started today with 1000 records cleaned for free M E L I S S a melissa.com/twi. Thank you, Melissa, for supporting MacBreak Weekly, melissa.com/twi. Thank you, Melissa. All with the show we go, should we do some rumors, Mark Herman? I thought this was a really interesting rumor in Bloomberg Apple is readying several new max with next generation, M two chips, as many as nine max. And maybe you playing this Rene according to developer logs.

Rene Ritchie (00:45:35):
So that's something Apple tries to avoid because a lot of times people who are testing these devices, they put apps on them. Maybe they put their favorite, you know, non-standard Twitter client or

Leo Laporte (00:45:45):
Photography

Rene Ritchie (00:45:45):
App or something like that. And then the developer gets logs back. And sometimes there's unique characteristics about future devices. Like it's got a D screen display or reports, a different version of iOS or Macs, or it has like cores that you've never seen, like core count that you've never seen before. Like there's no 12 core CPU

Leo Laporte (00:46:02):
Right now. You can kind of fingerprint it in other words, pretty easily. Yes, yes,

Rene Ritchie (00:46:06):
Yes. And they come up with different ways of trying to avoid this, but sometimes, you know, things happen. People are under stress, they just load something up and

Leo Laporte (00:46:12):
Done. Yeah. They

Rene Ritchie (00:46:13):
Go, or you forget to turn off like send geek bench to server, you know, little things like that

Leo Laporte (00:46:17):
Little tiny mistake. According to mark the company's testing at least nine new max with four different M two chips, M two M two pro M two max M two ultra maybe. I don't know. Yeah, that would be four. The successors of the M one line. Oh yeah. With third party apps in its app store, according to the logs, which were corroborated by people familiar with the matter the, the move is a key step in the development process, suggesting the new machines may be really nearing release in the coming months. Could we see nine new max in June?

Rene Ritchie (00:46:57):
I don't think it feels like out, not in June. That'd be a lot going down

Leo Laporte (00:47:00):
A, a bad path. Yeah. You know that many getting

Rene Ritchie (00:47:04):
Slow, like one of the issues is the, the M one max started coming out in November of 2020. And at a certain point, Intel's gonna look over and go, oh, not so easy to, to keep up those updates. Is it? And I don't think Apple wants that, but at the same time, you know, it took them a while to get the first generation of the entire M one family shipped. They started with M one, you know, baseline in November and then went to pro and max in October. And then just this March, they went to ultra and that's 18 months. So depending like it's not too soon at all to start getting M two max, it's been over 18 months already. I'd love to see at least the baseline M two S the MacBook air or MacBook, whatever they call it. The, you know, the, the little MacBook pro, not the real MacBook pro and the, the M two Mac mini M two iMac. All of those I think are really due for an upgrade.

Leo Laporte (00:47:51):
Yeah. I don't, I

Andy Ihnatko (00:47:53):
Don't, I don't think this is a proper form for size shaming. 

Leo Laporte (00:47:56):
You know,

Andy Ihnatko (00:47:58):
I, I know we're speaking extemporaneously here, but 

Leo Laporte (00:48:01):
I so we know that the one Mac that has yet to drop is the Mac pro the one upgrade. Yes. But that, but yes, these original M ones are starting to get a little long in the tooth. Would they wait until November? They wait until this fall? I think

Andy Ihnatko (00:48:17):
I was, I was surprised we didn't see a MacBook error by now. Yeah. because that's, that's the that's one. The app makes absolute sense to make sure that you have stock on hand. You have, you have people who are not holding off, not spending any elsewhere because this is, this is such a great primetime college and high school computer. But if there, in addition the Mac, I think that we do have to add the MacBook error and the Mac mini to the list of machines that Apple hasn't promised. They're gonna update by the end of 22, but 2022. But we all kind of understand that they're not real, it's not a real Mac mini, you know, it's, it's a Mac, it's a MacBook air in a desktop with extra ports on it. And that's pretty much it. So I, I would very much be looking forward to them, seeing to, to them shipping all three in 2022. So I kind of believe a lot of this stuff.

Rene Ritchie (00:49:06):
And you want your single core boost Le you've been waiting for that because all of the M one family have the am single core performance.

Leo Laporte (00:49:11):
That's right. I keep pointing that out. Yeah. Although we shouldn't expect an M two to be double the speed, it's gonna be 10, 20, 30% maybe. Right. It'll

Rene Ritchie (00:49:20):
Be about 10% faster just on frequency alone. You know, because the, the, the new process, the N two P the, the second generation five nano process gives you about 5% extra frequency, and then Apple pushed a 15, but between three and 5%, depending on single core and multicore performance. So you'll get about 10% just off the frequencies. And then it really, it gets weird because people were so down on the a 15 saying, oh, it's not a big update. But like I said, in my benchmark LA video, you, you can't just be a tourist on measuring Silicon anymore. Like, like there's so many apps, you can download them, press a button. It gives you a number and that's meaningless. If you don't know what it means. And a 15, like it's a beast. It, it is, it is between 2.5 and 27% faster, depending on the workload and, and the latency, because it's got a lot bigger Ondi cash for like both level one and level two cash or system level and level two cash.

Rene Ritchie (00:50:11):
But also the, the efficiency allows it to do things like it is more efficient than M one while being F like faster frequency and faster Silicon architecture. So that means that Apple can, again, increase all of these things and keep them in the same containers, even smaller. Meanwhile, and I'm not even joking Invidia and Intel are wrestling over the last few bits of power in a house outlet. And at a certain point, you'll no longer be able to plug something in, in a house anymore. That just means that Apple has so much runway left to keep innovating with these chips. It's, it's really impressive.

Leo Laporte (00:50:42):
Well, this is what the, apparently the lineup, according again, the mark Iman will be a MacBook air with an M two chip. This is code named J 4 13, 8 CPUs based on the a 15, 10 GPU. And that's up from eight GPU's in the current MacBook air. Yep. So you may be a

Rene Ritchie (00:51:02):
15 has five GPU's at the top end. Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:51:05):
Okay.

Rene Ritchie (00:51:05):
Doubling that again,

Leo Laporte (00:51:06):
A new Mac mini with an M two J 4 73, same specs as the MacBook air. There's also for the mini M two pro variation in testing. That's kind of good news. That's the J 4 74.

Rene Ritchie (00:51:19):
The question there is, is it four, is it four efficiency and, and eight performance or two efficiency and 10 performance, cuz the other big deal about a eight 15 as the efficiency, cores got 30% faster, they got so much faster. They don't have to use a performance cores as much, which saves even more power on the chip. The level of ludicrousness we're getting with these things,

Leo Laporte (00:51:36):
But in, but we should also, I, I would like to say that if you're just doing general kind of computing email and, and browsing and stuff like that, it's not gonna be a, will it be noticeable improvement in performance?

Rene Ritchie (00:51:51):
Well, I mean, you've been fine for five years. Like that's all you're really doing. You've been fine for the last five. Yeah, exactly. The efficiency cores are what you check mail. The will be 30% faster. Your meal will pop up 30% faster. Leo, does that make a huge difference? No,

Leo Laporte (00:52:02):
I dunno. The biggest difference is your fans don't come on anymore. That's

Rene Ritchie (00:52:06):
The big thing.

Leo Laporte (00:52:06):
Yes. That's the big differe. It doesn't get hot

Rene Ritchie (00:52:08):
If you hate fans.

Leo Laporte (00:52:09):
Yeah. I'm very, you know, I bought as, you know, an M one Mac mini finally gave up and just bought it for my office in the other room. And it's the same. It can't tell the difference. They're all the same. The max ultra, what max, the studio, the pro you

Rene Ritchie (00:52:23):
Need to buy a separate space heater. That's the biggest difference.

Alex Lindsay (00:52:26):
And it's not just, it's not just heat. I mean, when you have start having a lot of these and I've got a lot of 'em running around right now it, it starts to actually turn into real energy savings and actual that's cash dollars that you are saving. Like when you think about something running one eighth, the amount it's not just the fans, the fans are turning on because you're using a lot of energy. So, so the, so the fact that that they're using a quarter of the energy means that you're paying less to run them. And if you're running them all day and you're running them hard and you're running lots of them it's gonna start turning into measurable savings just for operation.

Leo Laporte (00:52:59):
Okay.

Andy Ihnatko (00:52:59):
To say I in longevity as well.

Leo Laporte (00:53:01):
Yeah. Longevity, I'll

Rene Ritchie (00:53:03):
Say you need more max, Leo, Alex is saying, you need more max.

Leo Laporte (00:53:06):
Yeah. To get

Alex Lindsay (00:53:06):
Real estate. I'm just, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:53:08):
Yeah. I'm just saying, well,

Andy Ihnatko (00:53:09):
Maybe you didn't keep like buy like a hundred, a hundred Mac mini and just stack him up on top of each other and putting in a closet. They wouldn't be over

Alex Lindsay (00:53:15):
Like that. Haven't bought a hundred. I, I just bought 20.

Leo Laporte (00:53:20):
I've

Alex Lindsay (00:53:20):
Bought a hundred is max

Rene Ritchie (00:53:22):
One

Alex Lindsay (00:53:22):
Fifth of 120.

Leo Laporte (00:53:25):
Wow.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:26):
Between between, oh, I know. And myself, I have, I think I have I think I have nine of them right now of the M one Mac minis. And then I have one ultra of the studio, not an ultra studio of the Mac, the whatever. And then the then the company has probably another 15. Wow. Over 20.

Leo Laporte (00:53:42):
Yeah. Wow. Kind of amazing. Why so many, you didn't wanna wait for the pro

Alex Lindsay (00:53:49):
You know, we use 'em for office hours and for remote. So O N I know, sends them out with our kits. So the M ones what's great about them is we bought them specifically because they run iPad apps. So there's an iPad app that lets us run the black magic six K camera. So we bought them so that we can, we can use Bluetooth attached to that at as well as the iPad app that lets us control our sound devices stuff. And so, so the so we have, we bought, so we had 15 of those for our kits. And then and then I use them because zoom will put out out of a Mac, but not a PC for ISO 10 P ISOs out of every computer, if you have a card for it. And so we just stack these M M ones out. So every M one will put out four zoom. So cuz what, so when we do office hours, we have all 20 go out into the switcher, you know, from zoom IO. So it's so it's a really useful way to do something cuz then it doesn't have the latency that we feel here every once in a while. Cuz we're just talking inside the same show and we're just going in from the back end and grabbing all those videos.

Leo Laporte (00:54:46):
Nice.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:47):
So yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:54:48):
It's good. Entry level MacBook pro with an M two chip also on this list code named J 4 93, it's essentially the MacBook air with a fan, just like the original 13 inch MacBook pro a touch

Rene Ritchie (00:55:00):
Bar

Leo Laporte (00:55:01):
And a touch bar. You think? No, I, I hope not, but say it ain't gonna, it, you touch it wherever you want. It's just not gonna charge your extra for a 14 inch MacBook pro with the M two pro and max. So this is really, very much like the previous trench, just with M two S right? Yep. You can

Rene Ritchie (00:55:20):
Tell going from ninth to 10th gen

Leo Laporte (00:55:21):
Yeah, yeah. 12 CPU cores, 38 graphics scores in the max up from 10 and 32. And here's

Rene Ritchie (00:55:26):
Your I five I seven and 99, you

Leo Laporte (00:55:28):
Know? Yeah. 64 gigs of memory. That's one big difference is the memory is tied to the processor on Apples platforms. So yeah, 16 inch MacBook pro M two pro and max N a Mac pro code named J 180 and that'll be, is an ultra. So there's also a Mac mini with an M one pro ship. Oh, we mentioned that J 3 74. Would

Rene Ritchie (00:55:59):
You want a, an 18 inch Mac book pro with a Twilio? No, you, you battleship and you air

Leo Laporte (00:56:06):
Off carrier. No, I don't. No four is a good size. I was actually looking at windows PCs last night because I feel I'm kind of embarrassed that I don't have anything running windows and I thought I probably should. Should you know, just to, I was

Rene Ritchie (00:56:23):
Like, Microsoft's problem. Not yours. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:56:24):
Well

Rene Ritchie (00:56:25):
It should

Leo Laporte (00:56:25):
Be doing you. Yeah. and I, and I was looking at 16 inches, but they, you know, they're four and a half pounds and I just, yeah, yeah, no, I don't know that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Rene Ritchie (00:56:38):
You and see when Sinofsky just, can't go back.

Leo Laporte (00:56:40):
Can't go back. Can't go back. So the real question is, okay. I believe all of these you know, obviously they're in the logs, they must be real, but that doesn't mean they're gonna be released in the next month or two or are they? No,

Rene Ritchie (00:56:56):
Probably staggered staggered people. It'll be staggered the way that M one was. So we'll get like the M two and then we'll get the M two pro and max and then we'll get the M what

Leo Laporte (00:57:02):
Will C at WWDC? What's what's your best guess?

Rene Ritchie (00:57:06):
Mac pro is still my guess. Like we won't get it, but we'll see

Leo Laporte (00:57:09):
It. We'll see it. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:57:10):
Yeah. They're sample pressing for that. I think twice before they've announced, they've shown off a Mac pro without shipping it. So,

Leo Laporte (00:57:16):
But it's kind of upside down. If you talk about an M two ultra, before you talk about the M two M two pro and M two, but the

Rene Ritchie (00:57:22):
Mac MacPro may not have under M two Apple coulds, like just throw a wild ball and call it like X one or

Leo Laporte (00:57:26):
Something. Oh, well that's

Rene Ritchie (00:57:28):
Because like, it's, it's quad. Like what does, what does a quad, M one even look like? We're we're in we're in unusual times, Leo, everything is up for grabs. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:57:35):
Marketing. Honestly, I think this would all be much more rational if we didn't have the supply chain shortages that COVID shutdowns, all of those issues are really thrown monkey. You rent in the schedule. I think even now Apple probably doesn't know what it's gonna announce in June. They're still trying to figure it

Rene Ritchie (00:57:49):
Out. It's amazing that they're shipping. Like we still can't get a PlayStation five on a shelf and it's been two years Leo. Yeah. And like, Apple's still Apples. We shipping this stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:57:56):
Yeah. 

Rene Ritchie (00:58:00):
It's a logistical miracle.

Leo Laporte (00:58:02):
Are you intimate with Apple? Apparently many people are the brand intimacy rankings are out and Apples. Craig

Rene Ritchie (00:58:15):
Feder.

Leo Laporte (00:58:15):
I don't know what the hell. This means.

Rene Ritchie (00:58:17):
Dumb to dumb.

Leo Laporte (00:58:19):
The report generators, BLM measure brand intimacy by examining users and connections to a brand, including the characteristics of their bond across categories, such as nostalgia, indulgence, and identity. They also measure the intensity of a, of a user's connection with a brand. You'd think Apple would win his hands down. But no Disney's number one.

Rene Ritchie (00:58:42):
Oh yes.

Leo Laporte (00:58:43):
Yeah. You guys know, you guys know you're intimate. You're intimate with Disney. Yeah. Number two is Tesla.

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:52):
Yeah. God Bruce. I could don't don't don't say don't put the words. Panel gap in anything you ever

Leo Laporte (00:58:59):
Say on

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:00):
Your Twitter, you would get a thousand, like, Hey, waits back at you. I thought this is, this is like what Apple, what Apple for fandom was in like 1992. Yeah. Tesla fandom is today.

Leo Laporte (00:59:10):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:11):
It's not as basically it's brand intimacy. Not necessarily a good thing. They're the

Rene Ritchie (00:59:16):
Brand codependency. Is that what you're

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:18):
Looking for? Randy? I'm just, I'm I'm just saying that if, you know, if, if, if, if Elon got high, just say as a joke saying, now go out and kill in my name. It would be a very, very bad day in every market in which Tesla operates.

Rene Ritchie (00:59:29):
This is a dark show.

Leo Laporte (00:59:31):
There is a, I feel like there's a lag in this because number three is Apple number four is Sony.

Rene Ritchie (00:59:40):
Yeah. Even think there were surprise hand boys

Leo Laporte (00:59:41):
That might have been gaming true. A few years ago. He said he has five. He's not HP. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. Then YouTube, Rene. You'll be happy to hear that then. Mercedes, where is that box traders? Joe's do you have trader Joe's in Canada? I don't think you even have

Rene Ritchie (00:59:56):
Them. No, no, but like, where's I, with a lot of these, this makes no sense.

Alex Lindsay (00:59:59):
It goes, it goes both directions. Like with trader Joe's is a good example of there's a lot of people that like them and a lot of people that really don't like them, you know, there's when you know, like me, like, I, I, I don't like, I really hate trader Joe's. It's just wonky. The whole store is wonky and, and I, and, but there's people like my, my sister, my brother love trader Joe's and they, they get tons of stuff from trader Joe's. And I'm just like, and when, when whole foods started putting, replacing all the food with their own food, I was like, if I wanted to go to trader Joe's, I'd go to trader Joe's. But I come here because I want, I want other products, you know,

Rene Ritchie (01:00:31):
Need to Bob the mountains or something.

Leo Laporte (01:00:36):
Let's see. Who else, who else is in our list? That's a

Rene Ritchie (01:00:39):
Weird list.

Leo Laporte (01:00:40):
It's a weird list. Why is

Alex Lindsay (01:00:41):
It's a weird, like, I don't even know how they get that data. Like

Leo Laporte (01:00:43):
Netflix, Android and Sega. Yeah. I'm gonna throw this out right now. Apple rated very high in what ML and B M caused stages, stages, identify the depth and degree of intensity in the relationship between consumers and brands, Apple ranked specifically very highly in bonding. What a consumer I's attached and is committed to a brand comfortable survey. I think we're bonded. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:07):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:01:08):
They also rank highly in sharing. That's when a brand and its consumers learn more about each other influencing each other.

Rene Ritchie (01:01:16):
Okay. We shouldn't be talking about brands or companies. These terms, this is not healthy for us. This is we

Leo Laporte (01:01:20):
Should we have

Rene Ritchie (01:01:20):
A, we have a, we have a completely commercial relat. If they make nice things, I will buy them. If they don't, I will buy somebody. Else's. That is the extent of my relationship with any of these companies. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:29):
This is this. I mean, this is a lot, a lot about made up stats. It's

Leo Laporte (01:01:32):
Not, I think so. But

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:33):
They, they, they made up statistics and they made up the methodologies for them. And I'm I I'm sure that there are some analysts who find some sort of value in the raw data. Basically. This is my, this is my annual report that costs $5,000 to access this, to tell you how many fluffle booms you're gonna be ACC. You're gonna be able to in the growth period and unfortunately

Rene Ritchie (01:01:54):
10,000 we'll show you how to get higher next year.

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:56):
Yeah. We'll we'll show you we'll show you the numbers. It's like a cult where you have to keep buying like more expensive, more expensive, like lessons, classes. I mean that,

Leo Laporte (01:02:04):
Yeah. That's how it

Rene Ritchie (01:02:05):
Works. That's how a lot of like magic quadrant works. But the thing that concerns me about this is we do live in a time of unprecedented brand affinity and zero attention span. And I know I've mentioned this before, but like when I was younger, if there was a problem with a product and it was a recall that company almost went out of business and we've like, we've had people refusing to give up phones that blow up. Like they, they just wanna keep, cause they love so much. Like we we've entirely inverted our cortisol levels or something. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:02:28):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:02:29):
Yep. It's it is sometimes hard for us to realize that we, we, we don't, we should never love a company. We should even love a product. We should just like what it does for us. And then every single year we need to like renew that contract and reevaluate it. And that's the, the reason why I've been using max every single day for, since I was like 20 is, since I was old enough to afford one is because every time I'd make that evaluation, it passes that test.

Leo Laporte (01:02:54):
There was a great well, not great. There was a long, great in the size sense article in the wall street journal about the chips, speaking of the, a M one and M two. And I got real excited when they said they interviewed Johnny Saji, but I don't know where the interview went. Cuz they only had about two quotes from Johnny. It was

Rene Ritchie (01:03:13):
So weird. And like their Pierre is in there. Like I think, well, like an old quote saying that Intel's gonna come back and then they have to have gels. Thing's old quote. They wants to win back Apple's business. It was like the weird,

Leo Laporte (01:03:22):
I

Rene Ritchie (01:03:22):
Was a weird

Leo Laporte (01:03:22):
Interview. Yeah. I I, yeah, I, yeah, don't read it. It's it's one

Rene Ritchie (01:03:29):
Of those great. But I want, I need Johnny.

Leo Laporte (01:03:31):
I want more, I wanted the Johnny. I feel like this was, this was in the April 16th print edition and that's a weekend edition. So I think it's like they do these features for the Saturday journal

Rene Ritchie (01:03:43):
Enterprise piece.

Leo Laporte (01:03:44):
Yeah. It's yeah. And it's, it was pretty puffy. So I'm just gonna mention it and, and move on. 

Rene Ritchie (01:03:52):
I love like just to go, just to focus on Johnny for one, I love his philosophy cuz like you we've heard him for the first time. We've heard him on stage now with all the M one announcements. I love that he he's just like Silicon is unforgiving. Our only job is to make sure that given the constraints of thermal envelope and time we deliver Mac, like we run Mac applications faster than any other applications on the planet. And that's like a very pure goal for that team. Yeah. And those sobs deliver it. Like it's, it's amazing how that focus has filtered down into a really interesting range of products that we've never really seen like high efficiency desktops before and what that enables them to build. Yeah. So I I'm impressed with his whole, in his whole organization at Apple.

Alex Lindsay (01:04:31):
Yeah. I, I think that we're, you know, we're seeing this in a, in a couple different places where the ecosystem is starting in, in many, for many companies becoming really important. Like it is the fact that Apple owns all of those things, you know? And we see that in other places, in, in our area, black magic is slowly just adding all these things to all the, you know, and to where you go, well, I could buy another camera, but then I'd have to figure out how to shade it. Like I'm not, I don't, you know, I, I just had that conversation this morning with someone, I was like, we could use other cameras, but then it'll get a lot more expensive and it won't work as well. And so and I think that lock in becomes big as people are to really build the whole pipeline. I think in the past we really thought of people should specialize and they should do what they do really well. But there is something to be said for building a whole ecosystem where everything just works with each other

Leo Laporte (01:05:15):
Information article Apple's privacy rules leaves its engineers in the dark. This is Wayne ma in this story this is not the first story we've seen saying Apple suffers somewhat in its process because of its need for secrecy. I don't think this is even the first time, the information years ago.

Rene Ritchie (01:05:35):
No Craig addressed it. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:05:37):
Yeah. Years, years ago. Don't probably don't

Leo Laporte (01:05:40):
Go ahead 15, go ahead to Alex. And then we'll go back to just

Alex Lindsay (01:05:43):
15 years, I spent a lot of time going to infinite loop for different meetings and it slowly became clear to me that I think I knew more about what Apple was doing. Yeah. The engineers that I was talking to cause I was meeting with like six different teams for something and it was like, it was like, I just, I realized that I, they don't talk to each other at all. Like no one. And, and the thing is, is that culturally, they don't want to know, like they don't, they don't wanna know stuff that could get them in trouble. You know, they don't, you know what should be secret or not. They wanna know what they need to know. And, but other people's secret things is not something they, they don't ask. They don't go into a meeting going, Hey, wait, what are you guys working on? Like, no one does that.

Leo Laporte (01:06:16):
There's something be said for that kind of collegiality and that sharing of information. You learn from one another and you lose something if you don't do that.

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:23):
Yeah. And that, that, that is a very, very serious issue if they, that, that is, that is a career limiting offense. If you simply know something that you're not supposed to know, no matter how you found out about it, that that leads to an investigation and then bad things ma

Leo Laporte (01:06:36):
Is it's

Rene Ritchie (01:06:36):
Always hilarious because like before or the event you'll have a bunch of Apple people and they're like, what are you working on? I can't say, what are you working on? Right. I can't say, oh, you and y'all have like these black packages all over themselves. And then the day after the event, they've all got their new phones out and their new headsets out and their new things out, they go, oh, you did that. Oh, you did that. And, and it's hilarious, but like guy English wrote this famous article a few years ago where he's like, the supervisor says, why doesn't your new, Dinga us work with black bear? I don't know what black bear is. What does it matter with you? People go over there and find out. And the guy's like, I can't tell you. And he's like, I can't tell you either. And then iOS ships and Siri, can't talk to find my friends because nobody could talk to each other at Apple. And that affects

Alex Lindsay (01:07:10):
Users. Well, on the, on the other side of it, you know, I worked with, I've worked with a lot of companies and another company, you know, they there's a lot of free flow of information, but the problem was is that people who didn't own that information, weren't nearly as careful about keeping it secret as the people who, you know, their job depended on it being successful. And so that cross pollination while allowing for communication meant that people would just talk to their friends about it, cuz it's not their project, you know? And, and they and so sometimes things leak out. Things become much more Civ like when everybody's trading that information because the people who are not in that, that division are not as careful as the people that are in the division about keeping it from going to the outside world. And so I think that there's a, there's a balancing act there,

Andy Ihnatko (01:07:54):
Mm.

Leo Laporte (01:07:56):
To the former Apple employees, many of whom have also worked the Amazon Google and Facebook say Apple's privacy restrictions stand apart from those of their peers. The Vanguard of Apple's restrictions is its privacy engineering team, which is made up of several dozen employees and acts as a powerful gatekeeper. Even junior privacy engineers can Vito requests from senior managers at other parts of the company. So partly this is, so there there's two things going on. There's internal secrecy, but there's also the desire to respect the privacy of your customers. And MOG is talking about both of those as being a, a, a problem for Apple. And we've talked before about has serious limited different things, but it's very different things. Craig said,

Rene Ritchie (01:08:37):
Yeah, yeah. Craig said very famously. We don't need to access your camera roll to see what a mountain looks like. We can get a billion photos of mountains off the internet. We're fine. But in order to do anything interesting behaviorally, which is what Google and Amazon Excel at, they need deep access to your data to, to like, to figure out when you're going to an airport and to warn you ahead of time and to do all of these and Apple doing very small silos into all those things, but they don't have the big picture and to be in like, that's why I think like Siri's not really an assistant, like Siri can be helpful, but to be an assistant, they really gotta be up in your business the way an assistant is. And Apple's put a line in the sand there and they, they have been more flexible recently.

Rene Ritchie (01:09:09):
Like they, they moved some of their in violet privacy lines because they realized, for example, with health data, with just super sensitive, you might be incapable of, of handling your own health data. And you have like, like an assistant or a care provider or a family member doing it. And they have to make that kind of sharing stuff. And I wish that like, and I, I know Andy said this for a long time. I wish that I could give Apple permission to access more of my stuff so that I could get better results out of it. I'm not adverse to that bargain at all.

Leo Laporte (01:09:34):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:35):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:09:36):
I think we like it that Apple respects our privacy and understand, I think that that hobbles it in some ways Apple maps, isn't collecting information about everywhere we go, like Google maps is they

Rene Ritchie (01:09:48):
Can ask me like informed consent. That's the Steve thing was like, ask me again, ask me over, over again. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:54):
When, I mean, it's

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:55):
Like when Rene said it's, it's an interesting balancing act that Apple has to, has to maintain on the one hand. I honestly think that of all the really, really big tech of all the really, really big tech companies, there's nobody that I trust lowercase T trust more than Apple with my personal data. So if I could get, if I could say, if they did if they did give me a popup that said, oh, by the way, if you allow us to collect this information, here's how we can, here's how we can improve your experience specifically. And also here are contr. Here's how you can track what, how we're tracking you. Here's how we can turn this off. And by the way, you always, we are, you, we are basically leasing this information from you. It still belongs to you. I would go for that in a heartbeat.

Andy Ihnatko (01:10:36):
But on the other hand, the more that they weaken this idea that no, we are just, we are not gonna make any money under any employee shape or form on on tracking your personal data under any circumstances. Once they lose that sort of, this is the company that you can legitimately trust more than most that's they, they lose something very, very valuable. I mean, Google has to tow that line as well. They have a board that has the power to like Nicks, a really, really huge artificial intelligence cloud pro cloud contract, because no, it does not meet our ethical guidelines. No, it does not meet our safety and security guidelines. But the thing is, Google has to make money off of this and they have to have all this data, it in order to do all the magic things they want to do. So it really is, well, it I'm I'm, this is why Apple really couldn't succeed without Google, Google couldn't succeed without Apple. So long as people have that choice to make which deal do you wanna make? That then we are all good. If we were locked into one mode, it would be pretty terrible.

Leo Laporte (01:11:35):
Hey, it's earth day. Woo, woo. Good

Alex Lindsay (01:11:39):
For earth. Almost earth day.

Leo Laporte (01:11:40):
Almost the 20. What is it? The 23rd, 22nd earthlings. We're up for this? It'll be earth day day after tomorrow. No, two days, three days, Thursday, two to Wednesday, Friday, Friday, Friday. Thank you, Friday. Happy days every day birthday in, in, on the, on this planet, Apple's launched a new time to walk workout for Apple fitness plus with Dr. Jane Goodall. Nice. The 

Alex Lindsay (01:12:06):
She she's so great. She,

Leo Laporte (01:12:07):
You, you you've dealt with her in Rwanda. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:12:10):
Yeah. I mean, I've dealt with her a bunch of I've. I met her in, in Tanzania. We were part, we were both at Ted and oh,

Leo Laporte (01:12:18):
Nice.

Alex Lindsay (01:12:19):
An incredible memory. Like my, my my business partner who, who runs the school in Rwanda, he grew up in Tanzania with his father. His father was a researcher and appeared at Jane Goodall. And he his first person ever to be documented, being chased by chimpanzees that were going to eat him cuz he six years old and hilarious. It was funny. Cause

Andy Ihnatko (01:12:37):
So keep running solve. We're getting great data.

Leo Laporte (01:12:40):
There's

Alex Lindsay (01:12:41):
Like a pie. There's like a, they like wrote cause they just noticed it down there. They, they, they have this thing where they circle and that means they're getting ready to eat. And anyway, so they, they obviously scared them off. He's still alive. He's running the school, but, but the but the funny thing is, is this is like 50 years ago or 40 years ago. And so I was talking to, to Jane Goodall. I, I said, so my my, my business, partner's a guy named Chris Marler and she goes, oh, I remember his father. And then she goes, did he ever tell you what happened with the chimpanzees they could have? That was dangerous. Like she was just, she was still upset. She was still upset 40 years later about what happened there, you know, it was, she really, she's very sweet anyway. So, you know, she's, she's, she's great. I mean it's amazing how much energy, energy, you know, she just is really, this is her thing and she, every time you put her on stage or on a camera, she just lights up and talks about it.

Leo Laporte (01:13:29):
Neat. Really, really neat. What else are they doing? They're there's a new time to run addition. It takes, I, I don't even know about time to run cuz I walking is about as fast as I can

Alex Lindsay (01:13:41):
Sticking with the walking.

Leo Laporte (01:13:42):
Yeah. I'm sticking with the walking takes listeners, the beautiful sites and San of Yosemite national park with an uplifting, pop and rock playlist. Okay. I

Alex Lindsay (01:13:53):
See when I, where I have it, I have time to walk, but for me it's nature

Leo Laporte (01:13:56):
Nature. Yeah. I

Alex Lindsay (01:13:57):
Listen to

Leo Laporte (01:13:58):
The burns. Yeah. That's pretty Apple fitness plus users who complete these or any other workout of 30 minutes or more on earth day Friday will learn a limited edition award on their Apple watch. Apple mat is, is also introducing 20 foot five new guides to make it easier than ever to find beautiful green spaces, family fun in nature, city walks and trails. These are from lonely planet, all trails and the nature Conservancy. And on April 22nd, you might wanna look for a new immersive augmented reality experience in Snapchat showing the exciting environmental innovations behind iPhone 13. Oh, it's an ad. Okay. Okay.

Alex Lindsay (01:14:37):
I, I just wanna know. I wanna know when, when Apple is going to send us NFTs for our achievements,

Leo Laporte (01:14:44):
They might as well be. There is, you know yeah. Like right here, here's like a little you job and I want an NFT out of that. And then I sure then what that's

Rene Ritchie (01:14:52):
Too

Leo Laporte (01:14:53):
Raffles brand. Yeah, exactly.

Rene Ritchie (01:14:55):
Like Jack's NFT was like, what was four, 4 million something and now they can't sell it for $200. Right. Right.

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:02):
$2,000. Have, you know

Leo Laporte (01:15:06):
Yeah. I think it was 29 million initially. Right. So he's gonna lose the guy who bought, it's gonna a little bit of money, but really NFTs are not about speculation. They're about owning that fine tweet. So enjoy.

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:20):
And

Rene Ritchie (01:15:20):
It's about owning. It's owning a fungible copy of that tweet on one of the block trains.

Leo Laporte (01:15:26):
Well, same thing from now, April 22nd, Apple will donate a dollar to the world wildlife fund for every purchase made with Apple pay through the Apple stores, including the online one. So celebrate by buying something from Apple. Yes.

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:45):
Consume.

Rene Ritchie (01:15:46):
Well, I'm not NFT antit by the way, I'm just anti grift. If you, if you can come up with something that's amazing with it. I'm, I'm all for it. But I just, I don't like the a Grif.

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:53):
I just, well, I as usual it's, it's, there's so many things about technology where it's a great idea. It could transform and improve lots of things, but you know, humans get involved and they screw it up. It's like the, when I first heard about it a couple years ago, it was all my, my thoughts were like, there there's such there's so there's so many fine artists who are working in the digital realm. This thing never exists as a physical, tangible object. It is. And it has to be an installation if you're gonna exhibit it. And if you are going to sort of buy it, it basically is like buying a service and buying a contract to maintain that service. How do, and also all the brilliant things that people are doing in 3d with the 3d brush painting, where it's a VR immersive experience in the, this is legitimate art.

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:34):
This is a medium that has never existed before in a way of human emotion, interacting with creativity that we have never had before. Not since big spur evolution since then has been the moving picture maybe. And, but how do we get to a point where the people who create these things can get paid for these things in a very, very relatable way. So the idea of having well, we're gonna, yes. It's bits and technically speaking, yes, these bits can be copied and duplicated everywhere, but we, there can be one authoritative owner, the one person who said, I'm gonna put skin in this game, I'm going to give this art to $60,000 to basically say that I'm the one who has the owns this thing and has the, has the ability to sell it for profit or a loss. That was a very, very, an, an idea with a lot of potential.

Andy Ihnatko (01:17:16):
But after it became, Hey, look, here's a picture of, here's a picture of a candy wrapper on my desk. It costs $80,000 and then you get $2 million for it. It's like, okay, there are idiots there, crypto idiots involved in this and they didn't figure out copyright doesn't transfer yet. I mean, the whole thing is also nascent. Well, well the artist would never wanna sell the copyright, but it's, but as an object that, I mean, not, not that fine, art sales are not, are, isn't a stupid, insane, insane market to begin with. I mean, look at, look at what got paid for a, you know, if you, if you can, if you keep this thing parked in a tax free shelter in the warehouse that, so that it never actually moves anything except for like one piece of data from one spreadsheet to another. Awesome. But yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:18:02):
Let's take a little break cuz I wanna talk about something with real value. The thousands of domain names that I own

Leo Laporte (01:18:09):
Hover, hover.com. That is the place I go to to buy domain names. Some of them silly, some of them important like twi.tv, like Leo leport.com. Hover is the place to get domain names. And if you're in a business and you don't own your own domain name, if you're mail is still going to hotmail.com or gmail.com, you need to go to hover.com right now, get a domain name or email address. That's yours. It's just for you. Whether you're a blogger, an artist, creating a portfolio, building your NFT store, just wanna make some more memorable redirects to your resume on LinkedIn. You gotta go to hover.com. Let's start with email. It's your, it's your key to connecting with customers and building trust for your brand, but how are they gonna trust you? If it's my great widgets@gmaildotcominsteadofleoatmywidgets.com, easy to set up at hover, they've got domain based emails for all your needs, smaller, large, you could set up as many mailboxes to your domain as you need.

Leo Laporte (01:19:14):
And it's nice. It's convenient cuz when your domain renews your mailbox is do too, and the prices are great. You should check out the prices, their most popular mailbox. It's just a no-brainer solution for business owners. Plus it's email, they've got a web mail solution, but you can use your existing email client as well. It real email hover. Isn't here to upsell you on stuff you don't need either. I love that if you've ever registered a domain anywhere else, you know there's page after page of upsell, not hover, the tools are great pro level tools. If you are good with DNS, you'll love their domain name management system. Very powerful, same with their email tools. They are intuitive and easy to use. Whether you're a web pro or just getting started, they offer who is privacy protection, not as an add-on, but with every single domain purchase so that your private information remains just that private and hover connect.

Leo Laporte (01:20:07):
If you don't wanna do DNS is a great way to connect your domain to your website with just a couple of clicks. Connect is amazing at hover. You're a customer, not a source of data. Take back control of your data with reliable tracker free email hovers, trusted by hundreds of thousands of customers who use their domain names in the email to turn their ideas into reality. We're gonna get you 10% off your first purchase on any domain extension for the entire first year. Right now, if you go to hover.com/twi, whether you're a developer, a photographer, a small business hover as something for you to expand your project and get the visibility you want. Hover.Com/Twi 10% off your first purchase of any domain extension for the entire first year, hover.com/twi for 10% off. And we thank hover so much for their support of MacBreak Weekly. You support us when you use that at our please do

Rene Ritchie (01:21:09):
We love you hub.

Leo Laporte (01:21:13):
If you are gonna steal some of these AirPods, this is a great story. This is post from Instagram from vital semis. He is Ukrainian man Anne, whose AirPods were stolen by retreating Russian forces who Lood his home. He tracked them all the way back from his home in Gustel into Russia. He knows where his AirPods are. I'm not sure he should go. I wouldn't recommend going to get them. Apparently it shows the actual movement of Russian forces as they retreat from an initial plan to attack Keve they crossed the border into bell. Russ eventually reached Bero where they are massing troops for an assault apparently for on the Eastern region of the Don bus, 28,000 likes on his Instagram. And by the way a number of requests that Apple give him new AirPods, semi writes and Ukrainian on his Instagram. Thanks to technology. I know where my AirPods are now

Andy Ihnatko (01:22:21):
Requests for Apple to send them like a hundred and just leave them scattered. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:22:25):
Throughout,

Andy Ihnatko (01:22:26):
Throughout, throughout, throughout the train.

Leo Laporte (01:22:28):
Yeah. Wow. Find my AirPods. You

Rene Ritchie (01:22:31):
Return my AirPods. Now they'll be the end of it. But if you don't, I will look for them. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:22:35):
I will find them. Wow. and there is a long article in ours, Technica by Dan Gooden. Who's their security guy about how people are getting around ATT the the application of protection, privacy, C protection without of course the IDFA and, and by the way, Facebook says, we lost 10 billion this year. We're gonna lose even more next year. Thanks to ATT there was

Rene Ritchie (01:23:03):
An update on that. I saw a really good update on that. And they were saying that originally, that was the thought because people stopped being able to see the direct results of their ad spend in Facebook and Instagram. So they lowered their ad spend and then they started selling fewer products. So they up their ad spend again. And they realized that because of these new guidelines, they just weren't seeing it in Facebook and Instagram, they were seeing it in their own C right. So they, what they did was like, they're still spending the money. It's just Facebook. Isn't getting all the data anymore. They're actually getting it. So they're resuming their spending. You know, it was, it was an interesting adjustment period.

Leo Laporte (01:23:34):
It was a interesting this is a quoting, an interesting research paper that says that while ATT works in many ways is intended loopholes in the framework also provide opportunity for companies, particularly large ones like Google and Facebook to work around the protections in stockpile, even more data we've said this before first party data collection is even better. Overall. Our observations suggest the paper says while Apples changes make tracking individual users more difficult, they motivate a counter movement and reinforce market power of gatekeeper companies with access to large troves of first party. And if

Rene Ritchie (01:24:10):
You're using Chrome, I mean, Google knows what you're doing. There's no ATP is not gonna protect you against Chrome. No,

Andy Ihnatko (01:24:15):
That, that's why, that's why Google said at the time that they don't, they don't anticipate having basically in affecting their bottom line. Facebook had to make that disclosure because it was affecting their, this, and they had, they had to mention that to stockholders as, and it is just, as you said, it's a difference between Facebook and most of their data through a Facebook app over which applicant have extreme tight control versus Google getting most of their data through a, the browser that that is the primary browser of choice for what is it? 67, 60 8% of the world's browsing and that they actually also create. Yeah, exactly. So

Alex Lindsay (01:24:50):
And

Rene Ritchie (01:24:50):
Google way smarter than Facebook, we determin it down.

Alex Lindsay (01:24:54):
Well, I think that also that what we're seeing is Apple. We've talked about this before, but they're slowly pulling that net in. And if you pull it in too much, then everyone complains about it and it doesn't seem defendable. But if you, you know, especially, it's very hard to say that you shouldn't allow users to decide whether they wanna be tracked. Yeah. So that's a very hard to defend situation. And so Apple has started with that and as they just keep on, oh, we, we noticed that there was some loopholes and the users would like to see something more and we'll just close that door too. And, but doing it just behind the users is better than getting smart far ahead of

Leo Laporte (01:25:22):
Them. Yeah. That's one thing. The researchers point out, for instance, they identified nine iOS apps, which use server site code to generate a mutual user identifier, not Apples, but another one that Alibaba can use for cross app tracking and that technically violates Apple's policy, but Apple isn't necessarily enforcing it.

Rene Ritchie (01:25:42):
And also more people are opting in if I read that, right. Because they're making a better case for Weis oh. Interest and some of stuff is actually useful. So the numbers have gone up like several percentage points over the last year.

Leo Laporte (01:25:52):
That's interesting. Huh.

Rene Ritchie (01:25:54):
Which is what we want. Right. Yeah. Like informed consent.

Leo Laporte (01:25:56):
Yeah. Informed consent. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:25:58):
Also, also Apple does have to be careful they're if they wanted to, they could really lock down the iPhone so that it, so that you are as invisible as you want to be. But the moment that they make it impossible for anybody to make to anybody to make make any money whatsoever off of a product app or service that doesn't simply charge you 50 to $60 per use of the app, you know, that's, that's when Facebook says, okay, we are, we can't, this is not sustainable. So guess what? We're not we're, we're not gonna allow the Facebook app. We're, we're pulling the Facebook app from the Apple store. If people want to use Facebook through the iPhone, they're gonna have to use a web browser. And then there'll be so many complaints from Instagram users, WhatsApp users, EV all those other users that they would have to pull back. But I don't even think that Apple wants that kind of wants to be that cuon it's. So there's simple things they can do that are just hard to argue against if you, if you, if your company pretends to care about user privacy and choice. And so they're doing those things good for them.

Alex Lindsay (01:26:52):
And it's, it's just hard. It's, it's not as popular to legislate against as well. I mean, you have a lot of folks that are, you know, already trying to get legislation done. And when it's, when you look at it on the face, it's like, oh, it's gonna be hard. That's gonna be a hard one to regulate is giving people access to just giving them a BU a button to, to push. So I think if Apple keeps on taking that path in, in that area, it might be hard to push them out. Rene,

Leo Laporte (01:27:14):
You were referring to a research from a company called adjust a research firm. When, when ATT app tracking transparency first came we said about 4% of users opted in. Almost everybody said, no. According to adjust in may of last year opt-in rates around 16%. Now that number of year later is 25%. And it really does very much depend on the app when it comes to games. It's 30%. This is global research considering the 2000 most popular apps in just database. In some cases, popular games have achieved opt-in rates of up to 75%, but it was

Rene Ritchie (01:27:57):
A big shock too. It was like, remember when Apple turned in Bluetooth tracking and suddenly we saw all the apps that were taking Bluetooth app with like, with no reason to, and when they turned on app tracking turns parents, he like every TV show app I had suddenly started going queen tree track. You I'm like, no, I'm, I'm watching like the Simpsons, are you not tracking me? It was just like a big shock as to everyone who was pulling all that data. Now we have some control over it. So we're assigning it to the apps that makes sense. And we're not to the opposite. We're just using it to get data, to sell for their own, you know, purposes.

Leo Laporte (01:28:22):
And I'm guessing that the games that people say yes to our probably offering you something for that. Right. So yeah. Free

Rene Ritchie (01:28:28):
Levels if you watch out. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:28:29):
Yeah. Not that kind of thing. And, and you know, if people are making that conscious choice, that's fine. That's fine. We've talked about the fact that Apple in its fight with epic is also locking out unreal engine, but there is a new game creation tool called core that is moving to iOS and Mac this summer. It has been on PC and it lets you build games on unreal engine. So that's kind of interesting, I guess that's a way to, to it's from manta Corps games.

Alex Lindsay (01:29:03):
Well, there's, there's, there's other ways to build games too is just with unity. So, so I think it's gonna be interesting to see how that, how that works out. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:29:13):
Did we

Rene Ritchie (01:29:13):
Notice that Apple was like super happy to get out in front and give a, like a assigned personal statement about Facebook's revenue revenue you share?

Leo Laporte (01:29:21):
No. What did they say? Criteria?

Rene Ritchie (01:29:23):
So Facebook put,

Leo Laporte (01:29:24):
Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:29:26):
They, Facebook originally said it is, it is usurious that Apple is asking for this high, like 30% commission. It's gonna put people out of jobs, out of business. It's terrible. It's bad for the economy. It's making puppies, cry and trees burn. And then they said, when we come out with ours, it's gonna be fair. It's gonna promote all of this. Like is gonna be great for developers turns out like you, they put out a double tax on it. So you gotta pay like their 30% plus 25%. So it ends up being like something around over 50%. And Apple's Fred saints. Who's a wonderful, wonderful gentleman just said, you know, it's a little bit hypocritical for Facebook to come out.

Leo Laporte (01:29:58):
I think Tim cook may have said something as well, UHS. So you get, you get the 30 standard, 30% on the meta quests store. But then if you're gonna use it in horizon worlds, you're gonna get an additional 17.5%. That's 47 and a half percent. And then you add the credit card fee, which they don't cover. And yeah. You're well over 50%

Rene Ritchie (01:30:18):
And their base is the same as Apples, which they were like up in arms about. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:30:22):
Yeah. Well, yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:30:25):
The

Leo Laporte (01:30:25):
World is funny. What a surprise, right? Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:30:28):
People who could have thought it,

Leo Laporte (01:30:29):
Who would, who would've thought Facebook would've done that? Huh? Apple apparently, you know, they got Friday night baseball still the jury's still out on whether they've got a decent, an announced team, but you know, they got baseball on Friday nights. They wanted the NFL Sunday ticket, which currently direct TV has. And I'm seeing a number of people saying it's already a done deal, but Apple is whole doesn't want anybody to announce it yet.

Alex Lindsay (01:30:59):
You know, there's no way that direct TV can compete with Apple, wants the, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:31:04):
They were paying one and a half billion a year to the NFL one and one and a half billion a year for a Sunday ticket Apple of course can come in

Rene Ritchie (01:31:14):
One eighth of Apples, Google money,

Leo Laporte (01:31:15):
Right. Can

Alex Lindsay (01:31:16):
Come in. Exactly. The,

Leo Laporte (01:31:17):
The, the expectation is, is around two and a half. Billion is gonna be the selling price

Alex Lindsay (01:31:23):
And the ticket. Wasn't a, the ticket, wasn't an exclusive, it's not taking games away from viewers anywhere. It is making sure that I think if you have the ticket, you can watch any game from, you know, that you can see any game inside of 

Rene Ritchie (01:31:35):
Except your local one. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:31:36):
They still have the markets blackouts. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:31:39):
But it it'd be great if I, yeah. If you can see 'em the problem with the networks is you can bar, you know, you just have to guess whether your team is gonna be on that. You know, that if you don't have the NFL ticket and then even the NFL ticket takes it away. So the, the big thing with DirecTV was that you could, except for your local market, you could see anything that was out there. And so that was a lot that was a big advantage of being able to kind of tune into anything. Verizon had something like that as well. So it wasn't completely exclusive. So it's not taking games away from people who would have 'em any other way, except for DirecTV, like people who have direct TV is it's gonna take it away from them. So it's gonna, that's the place. That'll, it'll be a big change cuz it's been around for.

Leo Laporte (01:32:17):
Well, and it was a huge selling point. And I remember when we were looking at the very satellite providers, there was no question. If you like NFL football, you get direct TV.

Alex Lindsay (01:32:25):
Right. I

Leo Laporte (01:32:25):
Mean, there was just no question. They had, you know, that's the one you had to get. So I have, I have a feeling that's not gonna not gonna be very good. So Amazon ad Disney, Comcast paramount all apparently in the bidding, but it's hard to outbid Apple on, on something like that.

Alex Lindsay (01:32:46):
Right. If they want it,

Leo Laporte (01:32:47):
If they wanted, but Disney could have had Mickey in

Andy Ihnatko (01:32:49):
The calling the games,

Leo Laporte (01:32:51):
Ho ho it's, it's a touchdown ho and,

Alex Lindsay (01:32:55):
And, and, and, and Disney already has, you know, ABC and, and ESPN and a lot of other things. So is, Disney's already got a lot of sports that they, you know, access. We're

Leo Laporte (01:33:03):
Actually not far off didn't didn't Nickelodeon have the, have NFL play by play in the playoffs. They have, oh God, a Nickelodeon version of it for, to get kids into slime. The players into football. Yes, they did. Oh, but not for, it was animated slime. I think it wasn't, the players were a little busy doing something else. But 

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:25):
Last thing we needed is for Disney to like take over like football around here of the game. It'd be like the third quarter would be like a soccer game that they also own from someplace else. And then you'd have to watch a soccer game

Leo Laporte (01:33:35):
Later to, yeah, it would be kingdom. It'd be kingdom arts, NFL has report wanted sunny ticket to go to Apple for a few months now there Apple's apparently planning to spend billions on live sports over the next four years for its Apple TV. Plus it is definitely a driver. I mean, I, there's no question having live sports is a huge thing, especially in this era of cord cutting. So good for good for Apple on this one. I hope they, I, I wonder, I mean, I imagine MLB and NFL have some say in how that's produced, but I, as we've said with, with the baseball, we'd love to see some innovation here. Shouldn't they be getting like a cricket

Andy Ihnatko (01:34:12):
World championships

Leo Laporte (01:34:13):
And some Manchester United in there that no, absolutely use the numbers. Absolutely. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:34:17):
Cricket is cricket is just absolutely huge. And, and also unlike unlike sports like baseball cricket recently basically looked at the, looked at all. The complaints of people were making like about, about baseball that were maybe being made about their own events that it's too long. There's not enough movement. They created essentially a version of speed cricket. That absolutely revolutionized

Leo Laporte (01:34:35):
Cricket, cricket sport. Yeah. No, it's more out of ever. No, it

Andy Ihnatko (01:34:42):
Turns, it, it turns it from like a three day like test match to no, you've got only a certain number of hours. You have a certain number of goals you have to it's it's I, I, I's not like, I, I won't say I got hooked on it, but once you start like watching some of these matches, especially like really, really like deep rivalries, the fans are more insane than any, any place else without being violent. The players are like, as it's it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an amazing thing that they, that no American broadcaster has said, you know what? We could probably get this pretty cheap. And it is very, very exciting and this, this would be a, and it would also bring it a lot of, a lot of subscribers that we won't be able to to to access otherwise all that expat money,

Alex Lindsay (01:35:22):
I think. Yes. I think the thing is, is that the direction though, in my opinion, the great thing about baseball is the conversation that you can have around it. And the fact that they, they do a little bit of that, but they show, show little, so little data and they have so many, so few things that I think, think that I think there's a huge opportunity in baseball to vastly increase it, not by making it faster, but by making it just adding more detail between the tell us, I know that Alex tell did you, oh man, we, we, so the problem was we were, we were tele illustrating basketball games, professional basketball games, and we were tele illustrating. The problem is the, the game keeps going all the time. It's like always going all the time. You can't draw him or anything. That's the best part of football is that you, everything stops all the time.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:02):
So you can sit there and go, okay, this is what happened. And this is how you know it. And this is that's, that's part of what makes football and baseball so interesting, but people have never really taken advantage of it with baseball, but they definitely take advantage of it in football. I mean, if you look at a lot of the, all that tele and all the, I mean, and it's, if you really want like Sunday night football, it is an amazing amount of data that they are passing to you about the game, you know, about here. Like all those replays that are happening. When you think about the game, the play just ended. Now we're gonna give you a cogent conversation for 25 seconds about what just happened and set you up for the next one. And then we're gonna do that like 300 times. It's just an amazing thing. It's it really is an amazing coverage. And hopefully Apple. I mean, there's definitely places to innovate, but the NFL spends so much time and money innovating, you know, on, on their game. Well, I've

Leo Laporte (01:36:48):
Seen people say, and I wonder if this eventually won't be the case that the NFL eventually should just take all the games and, and make you subscribe to NFL plus, and, and just do it that way.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:57):
Right?

Andy Ihnatko (01:36:58):
It's a big risk that huge, because the, the thing is golf. Golf can pull something like that because their advertisers are basically selling, like they're selling $80,000 cars most major league sports, however you're selling to everybody. And if you basically suddenly say that the only people that can, that are allowed to watch the sport are the people who can afford an extra subscription or, and also the hardware that's required and the broadband connection that's required. Now, you're really limiting your advertising base. And that's how you drive people to, to gaming. That's how you drive people to something else. They're, they're gonna find someplace else to, to spend their money. It's just not gonna be basketball. It's not gonna be football.

Alex Lindsay (01:37:35):
The, the other issue is, I mean, the NFL already has. I mean, you can, you don't need an connection. It already has. It's on cable. It's on satellite. It does, you know, there's an NFL network, but the problem is you can only cover one game at a time and there's a whole bunch of games going on. So you might as well spread out, spread it out so that you can get and make money at it. It takes a, it takes so much risk away. When someone you force somebody else,

Leo Laporte (01:37:55):
Let somebody else take the risk. That's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:38:00):
By the way, it's not called, it's not called speed. Cricket. It's called T 20 or 20, 20, 20, 20

Leo Laporte (01:38:04):
Cricket. There we go.

Andy Ihnatko (01:38:05):
It's go, go, go on YouTube. And basically Google like T 20 or 2020. And it's like, it, it won't turn you into like an absolute dete, but it, you you'll click through for a lot of other videos when it's like, it, it basically is like, it's three hours. It's only 20 overs. It's like, so basically no, no, no screwing around. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to bowl. You're gonna have to hit. You're gonna have to run. It's a much more, like I said, I would love, I would love to see someone try to do that with baseball. Not, I think there's anything wrong with like the existing baseball, but some way to say that, look, here's a way we're gonna make it. We're we're not gonna change major league baseball. We're gonna create T 20 baseball where it's 90 minutes and here are ways to make sure that it's all about base running. It's all about hitting. It's not, it's no longer necessarily like a 20 minute pitcher's dual between like a, at a single at bet. Cuz I think, I think that's great, but I would love to see what would happen if it's like there's no, nobody above the age of 23 will possibly be in any kind of shape to play T 20 major league baseball.

Leo Laporte (01:39:07):
That's why I like baseball. You could be a fat old guy. I hit a home run.

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:11):
48 year old pitcher. Starting pitch was, was throwing 93 mile an hour. Fastballs on. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:39:17):
Love that. Get ready Rene. Cuz Niantic has a new game. It's basically it looks, it looks like Pokemon without the licensing licensing fees issues. Yes. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:30):
Sorry

Rene Ritchie (01:39:30):
Harry Potter. Right?

Leo Laporte (01:39:32):
It's not Harry Potter. It's para explore the world with adorable pets. Will you care for you adventure together on daily walks, you satisfy your creature's desires. Well, that doesn't sound like fun. Uncover hidden treasures around the world here. Let's watch it. It's a it's AR it's gonna be on the iPhone. It's not out yet. See your little

Rene Ritchie (01:39:56):
Crossover with

Leo Laporte (01:39:57):
Little virtual pets with you. I th you know what this might do. Well, I don't know.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:04):
Yeah. It's Tomagotchi

Leo Laporte (01:40:06):
Yeah. I guess with some Pokemon elements cuz you, you gotta get out there and, and do things I think.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:13):
And it's, it's funny because there, there there's a big controversy right? Outta the Pokemon community because force people to go outside again and in some places it's still not safe. Right. But it turns out they're trying to build a, a, a walk, travel map network and they need us to go out there and collect my

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:27):
Data for them though.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:28):
It's super inconvenient that we're

Leo Laporte (01:40:29):
Not, we need you to get out there. Yeah. Out there and walk. Yeah. Lisa Lisa gets angry cuz they, they, you know, all of the things they add to make it easy to play at home when COVID, they're starting to take out and it's like now you gotta really play again,

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:45):
Alerts. There's a nine there's a nine star char art at the closest donut shop that is open. That is handicapped accessible, go and find it

Leo Laporte (01:40:53):
Pretty

Rene Ritchie (01:40:54):
Much. That's

Leo Laporte (01:40:55):
Pretty much the story right there. All right. I I think we should get our picks of the week ready, but I'm just,

Rene Ritchie (01:41:03):
Before we let this go, like, it's, it's really bizarre. Like now a lot of the PKA stops. You have this special disc on you press it and you get extra stuff for taking your camera out, walking around it and collecting lead AR like 3d imagery for them of this. And like, you're just getting a couple extra poker balls for it. It's ingenious.

Leo Laporte (01:41:18):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's evil genius.

Rene Ritchie (01:41:22):
Yes. Apple's paying people. Do

Leo Laporte (01:41:24):
You still play? Lisa said, oh, Rene's in a bad raid with me. I think the other day you still play. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:41:30):
Yeah. I don't play like they're starting to really like bother me of the same changes they're making. That's bothering Lisa. So I don't play as often anymore, but still like when I have

Leo Laporte (01:41:37):
Time, I do. Yeah, it was, I have to say we played pretty hard as you know, starting in July, 2016 when it came out and walked a lot of miles and it was fun. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. 

Alex Lindsay (01:41:52):
I'm always amazed at how fickle, how fickle an audience will be and how dangerous it is to change things. Yeah. Because it's just like, you know, like someone changes that's right. One little thing. And you know, I, like I bought, I bought all my clothes from Eddie Bower because there's one in the role in Plaza, Nevada. I mean, I just had lots of them and then they closed it, they moved it to Petaluma. And now I went to somewhere else, like, like it was like a fucking theater, like yeah. Too far away. Yeah. But it's but it's but you have to be very careful. And with, I, I just notice how many products that I'll, they'll change one weird little thing, and then I just stop using it. Like I'm not gonna use this anymore.

Leo Laporte (01:42:24):
Well, I probably shouldn't tell you then that we've added annual subscriptions to club TWI. That might SCOs scotch the whole thing. That's good.

Rene Ritchie (01:42:32):
So, but that's see. That's good. That's win-win is what it feels like a inequitable change. Like when you feel like you're changing for your benefit and not mine that people get upset.

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:40):
So you're not confident that you can basically get people, keep people engaged on a month by month basis

Leo Laporte (01:42:45):
Before.

Rene Ritchie (01:42:46):
No, no, no.

Leo Laporte (01:42:48):
You know the funny thing, and this will be the controversial thing. So it's seven bucks a month add free versions of all of our shows, access to our really fun discord where there's all sorts of interesting things going on. Like the untitled Lennox show Stacy's book club Jeff Jarvis did an AMA last week, things like that. And of course the TWI plus feed, which has all sorts interesting stuff. We've had a corporate plan for a while. That's done pretty well. That's $6 a month for up to, from five to, as many CS says you want, but people kept saying, but I just wanna pay once. I don't wanna pay monthly. And so I think they thought maybe we'd give 'em a discount, but no, we're just gonna say it's $84 for a year and see what happens because it's still, I think a very good deal.

Leo Laporte (01:43:30):
But if you just wanna pay once a year or, and this is actually, this is what put, put us over the top. If you wanna buy it as a gift, you know, seven bucks is not a great gift, but you can buy the $84 a year and that'd be a better gift. So twi.tv, please, don't all quit the club at once. Twi.Tv/Club TWI. It really does help us. And honestly takes us a, a little way towards our goal of kind of, you know, a free forever, which you know, that was the dream in the very beginning. Didn't seem doable and we love our advertisers. We're very careful on how we pick 'em. So it's not so bad, but you know, be, you know, especially as time goes by, it'd be nice to just with Spotify eating the world, to have another source of revenue that is not an advertiser.

Leo Laporte (01:44:17):
So that's why we started club TWI. And you help us allow a lot if you join twi.tv/club TWI. Now speaking of advertisers on fond Dov this is a great earth day advertiser Blueland you know, that it estimated 5 billion, plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles are thrown away every year, 5 billion. And if that weren't bad enough, most of the stuff in the cleaning bottle is water 90% water. So you're, you're paying a lot of money to transport water around in trucks, bad for the planet. Bad for your pocket book. Blueland is the solution Blueland is designed to be you buy these forever bottles for 10 bucks. And when you buy a kit and designed to be reused forever with money saving refill tablets, that started just $2 on TWI. On Sunday, I made some a hand soap I don't, I should fill this with water.

Leo Laporte (01:45:15):
I could fill this with water. This is the multi-service cleaner. These are the tablets. So once you get the bottle and by the way, I have these throughout our house, in fact, it's a great housewarming gift. I gave it to my daughter for her new apartment. Once you have these in the house, you just, and you can, they have a, a replenishment service. If we wanna S otherwise you can order as needed. You just put these, your water in these plastic bottles. You never throw out. Actually the hand soap comes in these beautiful heavy glass bottles, cause it needs to be heavy, cuz you're going squirt it. I just think this is great. Blueland was founded on the belief of cleaner planet starts by eliminating plastic waste. But, and I know you're thinking this, I don't want, 'em make a sacrifice for the planet with, you know, ineffective cleaners.

Leo Laporte (01:45:57):
No, these are, these are really great, powerful, effective cleaners effect. In some cases, I think you're gonna prefer these to the expensive wasteful plastic bottles you're buying in many cases, you know, what they people really love is the toilet tablet cleaner in which you put in the toilet tablet, you put in the, it cleans the toilet. You use the brush and you know, walk away, finish your cleaning, and then you're done. We use it in the laundry. They have also an Oxy cleaner that that gives you bleach, like cleaning. They have a that's the dish washing soap, a powdered dish, washing soap does a great job. I would say argue better than the liquid dish washing soap. I just love it. I just love it. Blue land, buy the bottle once, refill it forever. No more plastic waste. The only thing you have to throw out your outdated idea that eco-friendly products are more expensive and less effective.

Leo Laporte (01:46:48):
Just read the reviews at the site and you'll see. And by the way, the sense they have are fantastic. Now you, we actually don't Lisa doesn't like sense. So we use the unsend laundry stuff, but if you, if you like scents, Iris agave para lemon, lavender, eucalyptus, they're very light. They're very light. They're not overpowering. And they have special sense every once in a while, just ordered a new set of seasonal sense, which is kind of fun on your hand soap when you your hand. Oh, that smells good. Just try Blueland you will love it. The planet will. Thank you. Your pocketbook will thank you as little as $2 for the refill tablets, right? 20% off your first order, just go to Blueland B L U E L a N D blueland.com/mac break. This is just to me, just makes so much sense. Blueland.Com/Mac break.

Leo Laporte (01:47:43):
We have Blueland cleaners throughout our house. I just wanted to show you. I should have, I should have, this is my, I call this my chemistry set. I should have actually made this all next. Next time. I'll make it, but you just put, you put warm water in there up to the line. You put the tablet in there. You fizzes, you got the greatest cleaners ever save 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/mac break, thank you. Blueland for your support and are the good work you're doing for the planet. This big that'd be a good earth day purchase, honey. We're going green, 88, 88. Ask Leo the, I don't know why I said that. That's the phone number, but don't call it cuz there's nobody there over there. I'm seeing, I just saw it like, but I'll say it. I dunno, I'm on automatic, John. Let's start our picks of the week with ReneRitchie.

Rene Ritchie (01:48:45):
I Haven an interesting one this week, so I haven't seen the Batman yet, so please no spoilers. It's just coming out now. So I'm gonna watch it sometimes this week. It was it's

Leo Laporte (01:48:52):
On H max. Now if you subscribe and Lisa and I watch well crave

Rene Ritchie (01:48:55):
In Canada,

Leo Laporte (01:48:56):
Watch we watched it last night on the, on the old led 4k 70 inch screen was Sur sounded great. Looked great. It's a beautiful movie really is.

Rene Ritchie (01:49:05):
So that's the whole thing. There's a YouTuber Patrick Tomasso. Who's a photographer. And he went through and he's just talking about the look they did for this movie, because they did a lot of things. Like they got Ari to make them a set of custom lenses that deliberately destroyed the normal focal position of those lenses. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:49:21):
So would interesting, interesting

Rene Ritchie (01:49:22):
Things in and out of focus and it was sort of pull your eye in different directions. And then they also like, they, they, they filmed it digitally on the Ari cameras, but then they scanned it into film. They processed it that way. Then scanned it in again, I forget the name of it, but it's like an orange EUL stage of filming then rescanned it back into digital. So they get the exact sort of film, color profiles they want and they went outta their way to dirty things up. So there's, there is a lot of blur. There is a lot of depth of field there's things in the foreground, in the background. There's a lot of off angle shots or shots when you're looking through something and everything from the color grade it's they were sort of saying, and you the same cinematographer who did do, he's just very, very

Leo Laporte (01:50:00):
Talented. Oh, DUNS amazing. Didn't yeah, yeah, yeah. By

Rene Ritchie (01:50:04):
The way, it's so gorgeous,

Leo Laporte (01:50:05):
But I hope this isn't a spoiler, but the penguin that's Colin Ferrell. Yes. Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (01:50:14):
Yeah. It's

Leo Laporte (01:50:15):
So I'm watching ridiculous. The credits I'm saying Colin Ferrell was in this movie. Yeah. With a, this is the new thing. Now, if you're an actor, you gotta, you gotta do the the prosthetics and the heavy. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:50:27):
You gotta ugly

Leo Laporte (01:50:28):
Yourself up. You gotta argue yourself up. Yeah. I'm gonna see if I can find a shot. It doesn't look like co Ferrell.

Rene Ritchie (01:50:33):
So many act, so many movies are so sterile and so pretty and so perfect. This is not, this is great that this is a complete repudiation of all of that. And like, Patrick, I really hope it leads to some, to a lot more interesting ways of, of making these big budget movies, cuz you don't have to be the digitally perfect we're way beyond like just pure green screen and warehouses. There's so many interesting things we can do both digitally and optically. And I hope this starts to send this end. June starts to set that trend, reset that trend. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:59):
That that's something I find so annoying. I, I enjoyed, I enjoyed death on the Nile when I watched it last week, but it was, it was that to an extreme where it real life and real photography, you don't have complete HDR, like Instagram style imagery frame by frame, by frame. So I was, I, I compared it to I watched the the I, the ITV, the, the British TV version of the exact same story. And it's like, I, I kind of enjoyed the TV version more because when the boat is like, it's a beautiful shot of this boat going going up the river. But the thing is the sky it's okay for the sky to be gray. It's okay. To further be bright spots and dark spots in it. It's okay for the camera. Not to be in exactly the right position to catch this bird that happened to be flying away. It's like, that's what that was. Why it felt like a video game watching this modern movie. And one of the reasons why a lot of modern action movies kind of don't do it for me because everyone's concerned about, well, if we're gonna do the sky digitally, I want three, no, make it four seagulls, no, make it mock Mockingbird flying in this formation and they land on this thing. And there's nothing that's random. And there's nothing that isn't like. So choreographed

Rene Ritchie (01:52:08):
In this, they put on the lens so that the rain would hit it and stay on it. It wouldn't get

Leo Laporte (01:52:12):
Cleaned off. There's so much rain in this movie. It's the wet that

Rene Ritchie (01:52:15):
Even show Christopher Nolan's like Gotham, which is Chicago. Like it looks like Chicago and this Gotham, which doesn't look like any city,

Leo Laporte (01:52:21):
Oh, by the way, the art direction in this, you will love how Gotham looks. The art direction in this is spectacular. Especially with the cities. I can't wait to score. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:52:31):
They're they're ma they were making a real movie. They weren't making an event. Yeah. That's why, that's what I want. It's funny

Leo Laporte (01:52:35):
That mention the death on the Nile. Cuz I went back and watched the 1978, Peter Houston of death on the Nile. It was so much better for one reason it was actually shot in Egypt. Yep. And I recognize these places and I mean, it's real. And you could tell it's not that it wasn't, it was cheesy CGI and the, the,

Alex Lindsay (01:52:52):
Yeah, I have to say I haven't seen death of the Nile. I've only seen bits and pisses that a couple of us talking about and that the effects looks so bad. They're so like I that's part of it is just, it just looks like they really just ran outta money or something. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:53:04):
A, a lot of it is simply I, I I'll, I'll cut myself off after I've got the chalk clock on. Don't worry about it. But it's like, I, I wish that I wish that every director would get the one memo that says that not everything has to be a drone shot. I, I know that you can make the camera, start the bottom and then track all the way up as you go past this monument. It's okay to put the camera on a tripod, lock it to down, get your establishing shot and then cut to someplace closer. Cuz that was, yeah. That that's things that kind of bug me.

Leo Laporte (01:53:31):
I was watching a TV show. I can't remember what it was, but they were using tripods. I could tell the, the shots were perfect and static and we have gone so far beyond that. Nobody does that anymore so that when you see it, it's so like, wow, that's very old fashioned, a, a steady shot.

Alex Lindsay (01:53:51):
I think the matrix kind of just cracked the whole window. And then everyone just flew through it. Now we're finding our way back. But the matrix was so far out there. Yeah. That it changed how we made films.

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:00):
They didn't realize that people don't realize that the reason why the matrix did it that way is because that that's part of, that's consistent with the story that they are not in a real place. This is in a simulation where that kind of stuff can be due. Then we wind up in I've. I, I, I haven't seen the sequel to oh God, I can't remember the name, but it was the, the, the, the, the, the quartet of, of magicians. Now you see it now you see him, I think anyway, so there there's a sequel to this bad movie in which they're a great scene that could have been done great with practical effects where one of them has a card, but they're being searched. The four of them are being searched. And they're surreptitiously because they're magicians that have slight of hand can like pass it to, to each other, without anybody who's like searching them, knowing that they have it. And if they'd done it as a practical effect, it could have been magic, but instead it's all digital, you know, the card isn't there. And then there's one where, okay, I'm gonna flick it behind my, behind my ear. It's gonna land in the collar of one of my compatriots. But of course, again, let's have like a micro drone camera follow. That CA that, that CA that car is it spins, spin, spins, and then lands in the neck. And it's like, okay, I have, no, I have, I'm not in this scene whatsoever. I watch

Leo Laporte (01:55:04):
Continue this hole. The us foot USFL launched this weekend on Fox. Yep. And they are unlike the state NFL using helmet cams, and they're using drones and they're showing off the drones. Now, admittedly, the drone footage is not as high quality, but it's amazing as you're watching the game, you can see the drones buzz around the players. They even did one drone shot that stops up starts up in the boxes, SWOS down over the crowds, onto the field. Look at this. This is incredible. Now I'm sure player's gonna hit a drone at some point. Yeah. Yeah. But they're little. And it's the, this is, this is, I'm hoping Apple, if get NFL will, will start to do some interesting things. And this is smart of the us L cuz they've got, I impress people. Well,

Alex Lindsay (01:55:59):
The USFL is, is like a million dollars a game or half million dollars. And NFL football is like 50 million game. So there's a lot of, lot of,

Leo Laporte (01:56:07):
I think these are, I think these are consumer looking drones. I would guess. I don't probably

Alex Lindsay (01:56:11):
Are. I mean the, the main thing is, is that what's great about it. Look

Leo Laporte (01:56:14):
At this shot again. It's got a, this is a single shot with a drone. I mean,

Alex Lindsay (01:56:21):
Well, and, and the NFL, the NFL con, what you're gonna see is the NFL's just gonna watch them and figure out which ones, which parts of these they want. Right. NFL's experiment. And they have those super short depth of field shots that don't really work at.

Leo Laporte (01:56:33):
They're interesting. They certainly cut. Cut your attention all that time. Yeah. You could

Alex Lindsay (01:56:39):
Stop it down to 2.8. Like you don't have to open it up to one point. They're trying

Leo Laporte (01:56:42):
To show off, you know, I, they have right.

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:45):
Also improves the storytelling. That's that's it's all to the good.

Leo Laporte (01:56:48):
Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:56:49):
Yeah. I was the last thing I wanted to add quickly was that on Twitter, there's Toon, sore, and Todd Ziri two ILM artists who, or supervisors and they have the best conversations and also share just tons of information about SFX gone. Right. And gone wrong. Yeah. Both practical and, and CGI, cuz you could screw up practical effects all day long as well. So it's really, really interesting

Alex Lindsay (01:57:10):
To learn. Todd's great. You should definitely follow him. Yeah. He's got great posts all the time. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:57:16):
Annie and ACO pick of the week.

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:19):
This is a really great menu app that I just discovered last week, but it solves a basic problem with Bluetooth. It's called a tooth fair and basic. And all it does is allows you to create a little menu menu bar icon for each of the Bluetooth devices that you keep interacting with. So for instance, my, my problem is that I've got this really great Bluetooth speaker in the office that I often, when I'm listen, when I'm not doing a show or not really listening to like really, really great music or anything I keep connecting to, but there's so many steps to connect and disconnect from it. Cause I don't want to then be doing a podcast. And then, oh, it thinks that my microphone and my speaker are this Google, this, this Google nest mask, Mac speaker. But now it's an icon that's in my menu bar.

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:02):
I can simply click on it and it will connect, click on it again, disconnect. If it's like my Bluetooth, if it's like my Bluetooth headphones, it will, if a third party, it will connect disconnect to that. Show me my battery, battery access any Bluetooth device. And theq can when you create, when you create this menu, it, it will also let you choose what kind of icon you want. So it's what it's, you can easily get, let this get outta hand, but as a solution for it, there is, I want, I don't necessarily always keep connected to but it's enough of a pain of the butt connecting and disconnecting that I wish I'm not using it as much as I wanted to. This is six bucks. Well spent does a very, very simple thing. Does it very, very well. And again, I only only installed it like last week, but it's like now like three or four clicks a day with it. So it, it earned at six bucks.

Leo Laporte (01:58:45):
It's one of those apps where you feel like maybe they came up with a name first and now what, what could, what, what could a program named tooth fairy do? It's such

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:56):
What domain is still available. It's

Leo Laporte (01:58:57):
A perfect, it's a perfect name. Yeah. For this. I love it. Tooth fair, six bucks. And you can get it at the Mac app store on set app or I imagine you can get it from the website C dash command. I C command does a lot of other stuff too. I, I remember. Yeah, yeah. They do spa that's right. It's spam said it's Michael SI. Yeah. Yep. That's who that is. I knew, I knew that name.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:22):
The, the great thing. When you find a little app like this is that it is exactly like that. You'll find it an independent developer that is solving little problems. Michael's great. And then you wind up spending another $30 goes, Ooh, that sounds like great. Ooh, that sounds great too. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:59:34):
We didn't. I forgot to mention this, but BB edit had a big birthday. Speaking of independence developers

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:40):
30 years since it first went to a public release.

Leo Laporte (01:59:44):
Wow. 30 years. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:45):
30 years. There was a, I

Alex Lindsay (01:59:48):
Re

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:49):
I retweeted the the post to like alt dot Mac Usenet where rich Siegel posted that this thing that he's been working on. Oh, here it is now. It's and now it's is being released as freeware. Yep. And he's still working on it, still improving it and still the de facto text editor, because he just keeps on, keeps on improving it. The team keeps incorporating keeps

Leo Laporte (02:00:09):
And it still doesn't

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:10):
Suck changes. Yes. Still. Absolutely. Doesn't have suck the, be the, be the best slogan, the best and most important slogan.

Leo Laporte (02:00:18):
There's

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:18):
Great. If you, if, if you look for it, there's a great interview with rich Siegel from on the Apple developer channel Apple developer site where you also get to see his parrots. But it also tells talks about the history and the philosophy of the app and it just makes you respect him and the app, like all that much more. It's just

Leo Laporte (02:00:33):
Amazing. Here's something you don't see on a lot of websites, copyright 1992 to 2022 bare bones. Yep. Software, congratulations, rich and happy anniversary. 30 years. That's amazing. Alex Lindsay pick of the week.

Alex Lindsay (02:00:49):
So this is the week before NA that's one of our big conferences. And so you start to see announcements and keynotes and so on and so forth. We had, and of course, for office hours, this is, you know, a big, big couple weeks because we have lots of coverage and you should just

Leo Laporte (02:01:01):
Go down there, do the whole thing from the,

Alex Lindsay (02:01:03):
So we have, I think, I think we're gonna have five teams on Monday five teams over the weekend and on, on Monday that are all going down and they're feeding it all. So they're gonna, congratulations.

Leo Laporte (02:01:12):
You have guaranteed that TWI will never again do an event like a conference or bother why we could, how could you compete, compete to his signal? How could, yeah, we should, they're

Alex Lindsay (02:01:21):
Gonna shoot a bunch of stuff over the weekend and then they're going on Monday. They to go live into office hours is just gonna on Monday. Just keep going for a couple hours where

Leo Laporte (02:01:29):
We just

Alex Lindsay (02:01:29):
They're live from the, and we'll be jumping from team to team and we'll be kind of the hub. We'll be office hours, you know, on Monday morning. Anyway. So, but the so we're, we're working on that and, but black magic go, went ahead and did a keynote yesterday. And I have to admit I'm a little, I, I'm not surpri, I'm not amazed by black magic very often, but I'm amazed like they, so what they did is they have a black magic cloud and, but it's not a cloud it's, I mean, it can be, you can use Dropbox and eventually Google to do this, but grant really hates subscription services. So, so he talk, he goes on a T rate at the beginning, which is probably the, the, the biggest attack on subscription services ever. And but, but then he talks about it and what they've done is they built kind of a hardware version of this is that I can take all my content and plug it into something and share it with people all over the world.

Alex Lindsay (02:02:18):
The, and it's, but it's really pulling from my system now that that may see on a home connection. That's not a great thing on a business connection. That's not a big deal, you know, to, to be passing this stuff back and forth anyway. But what happens is, is it localizes all those copies or not? It can send proxies, it can do a lot of other things, but you can do things like live sync, which is like, you can play back together and talk about things. You can have, have a colorist in one place working on it, the editor, continuing to edit the audio, people working on it. And it's all coming together, you know, and it's basically being networked, you know, through the cloud with this, with this hardware and I, and the, the interface is beautiful. The control is beautiful. And for all of us that worked in the cloud, that's not what cloud software is known is, is a really

Leo Laporte (02:03:02):
Well gonna do about this. Cuz he is still,

Alex Lindsay (02:03:04):
Isn't

Leo Laporte (02:03:04):
A subscription version of this, isn't he?

Alex Lindsay (02:03:06):
Yeah. I mean, but frame, I have frame IO opened right here. I don't think this really competes with frame IO right now. It does have some features like that because you can share things out and have people give comments and everything else. So it's the first step towards frame IO, but it's definitely not a replacement. I don't think that they're gonna spend a lot of time being interoperable. You know? So, so frame IO is, has got works with many, many, many different editors. And even though Adobe owns it, I don't think that's gonna go away. Whereas resolve is really gonna be resolved. You're like, this is, this is gonna work really well if you're in a resolve environment. Right. And so, so I think that but it's, it is a really fascinating approach. You, we

Leo Laporte (02:03:41):
Could use this cuz we have a 10 gigabit symmetric from Sonic. This has a 10 gigabit port on it. We could probably use this for ourselves.

Alex Lindsay (02:03:49):
Huh. So you could have a hub server where you put everything and then it populates everybody. Else's, you know, as they, you know, depending on their bandwidth or whatever and they all have it locally and then you can work on it. It's a, it's at a, it is a really well thought out like just, and, and I, again, I, I, I, I saw that they were gonna do a cloud announcement and I, we did a, a watch party. That's what we do in office hours. So we did a watch party for it, but I was kind of multitasking and about halfway through, I was like, oh no, I can't believe they're doing that. And, and, and it just, it works really, really well. I mean, well, on TV anyway, we haven't tested it yet. We're hoping to get some stuff in there to play with it.

Alex Lindsay (02:04:24):
And you can start with something as easy as something that you just plug your own drives into, but you can get these huge, massive servers that you could put on a 10 gig connection and be loading them up with content. And they essentially become your kind of your cloud server, which is for a lot of production companies, the idea that someone's got a closed system, you know, to, to provide everything to everybody is useful from a security perspective as well. So, so it's a it's, it's gonna be really interesting to see how well that works, but it's definitely worth paying attention to, and it's definitely worth looking if you're a production person looking at that keynote yesterday day. Again, I wasn't, it didn't raise any. I was like I'm sure. Like, I, I wish I could have a AEM in the cloud. But I wasn't that interested in the, in the, this and I am now, like we're, we're definitely hoping to test a lot more of it. Cause it looks really impressive.

Leo Laporte (02:05:09):
Sending a note to Russell right now, I feel like this, this seems like something we could benefit fit from. I think we're using AWS right now.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:20):
And they're building this. The big thing is, is that resolve is such a, an audacious idea that we're gonna take Fairlight and we're gonna take resolve, and we're gonna put editing in there. We're gonna put all this. They just keep clumping stuff in. And it's really high really high chance of failure to do this, but they just keep, have so many engineers working on this right now. It's also just amazing to see how many feature new features are we coming out. If

Leo Laporte (02:05:43):
We're using Adobe, premier probably wouldn't be as good as if we

Alex Lindsay (02:05:46):
Were using solve you wouldn't I, I wouldn't try to. Yeah, no, I it's

Leo Laporte (02:05:51):
Really for black magic zone editor.

Alex Lindsay (02:05:53):
Yeah. I, I think that at the rate that they're going, I think that for final cut and resolve are gonna be, make the environment for premier and avid pretty difficult. Huh. You know, they still, they have, they have a foothold. So they're gonna be able to stick with that for a little while, but there's two apps that cost 300 bucks with no upgrades, right? No subscription costs. Right. And one is very fast and is adding all this 3d stuff to it. And the other one is just massive. Like this, you know, resolve was becoming this beast and between the two of them, I think that the, the market's getting really competitive in this area. And I, and I, I, I can't see a trajectory. I can't see a trajectory for premier now, but to be honest, I mean, I, I think they can do fine. I just don't think they're gonna there's there's any buts there.

Leo Laporte (02:06:36):
Five more, they work fine. Premier. I love survives.

Alex Lindsay (02:06:42):
It's mean AVID's gonna be fine because AVID's on a, AVID's got a bunch of filmmakers, you know, but the problem is when those filmmakers leave you know, it's just that I, I, you know, it's it's, it's getting to be a pretty hard to compete when you're so expensive compared to two that are putting a lot of money and time into and optimizing for a hardware, our platform. Yeah. Cause resolve is definitely working better on the max. The ones really

Rene Ritchie (02:07:05):
There's today, Alex,

Alex Lindsay (02:07:08):
The

Rene Ritchie (02:07:08):
Letter to Tim cook about putting more marketing muscle behind final cut by a bunch of inspiring Hollywood directors.

Alex Lindsay (02:07:13):
And they don't care. It's too small of a market Apple. Like the doesn't like I get it, I get the, I get the letter and I get that they really want that to happen, but it doesn't make any sense because the market on the bottom of the pyramid is so much bigger than the little market that the, the directors have. There's just, no, there's, there's no ROI for Apple to, to go down that path because we're horrible. Like high end production, people are horrible to work with because we have weird little things that we want to do. And now we want a button and if it's not exactly like avid, we're gonna complain about it. And, and you know, and it's not exactly, you know, we, you know, I used to have calls with a manufacturer and they go, you know, you're the only one in the world doing this.

Alex Lindsay (02:07:51):
Like we just wanna make sure you're clear like 4, 4, 4 capture into final cut. Like, yeah, you're the only one that's doing this. And so, and you, and I'm normal in the film industry. There's a whole bunch of us that are the only ones doing something and building it's a, it's a fools errand to start building for all of those things. If you don't already have them, I mean, AVID's got them. The chances of you pulling someone off an AVIT is very low. And the, the problem is is that it just is no ROI for Apple. They're gonna do a ton of work. They're gonna throw that. We're not gonna get features that we want as general users, because they're trying to make somebody have, you know, they're trying to make some big director happy, which they was useful when they, when it was Wal merch and they, he was giving them lots of feedback, not useful now, you know?

Alex Lindsay (02:08:30):
And, and so I think that I don't, I, I get the, I get the, the concept of it. What I do think would be really cool is again, as a user, what I would love to have Apple do is have a scene just we're paying for this film. We want one scene done in final cut. And you tell us what, what works and doesn't work. And we're gonna release that scene because we paid for it. We're gonna release that scene to the, to our users so that they can learn how to, how this works. That would be all Apple needs to do. And same thing with logic. Like here's, here's, they, they've already done it with Billy Eish and, and others just keep releasing songs as tracks and keep releasing scenes as tracks and do walkthroughs of those. That's all they would have to do to, to do everything that they're asking for in that letter. They don't have to change, but, but asking to change code for it is it's not gonna work.

Leo Laporte (02:09:15):
The letter is that asking for two things, one more marketing dollars spent to promote final cut, but really the issue seems to be that a lot of productions won't allow the use of final cut, cuz it just doesn't have the features that those like collaborative features, those productions need. So they're asking these directors are asking them Apple to add features specific features

Alex Lindsay (02:09:36):
For the I, again, the number one market they could do is release scenes, release, scenes, release, scenes, release scenes. They don't need advertising. Like they would just be, it has been on several times.

Leo Laporte (02:09:45):
Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:09:46):
Yeah. So they write,

Leo Laporte (02:09:47):
It's wonderful that Apple TV's become the first streaming platform to have a best picture winner disappointing to know that final cut pro is so unlikely to have been a possible choice as CO's editing app.

Alex Lindsay (02:09:57):
But it doesn't like there's the thing is, is that, that again, when I, I don't, it's

Leo Laporte (02:10:02):
Not the marketing, it is the

Alex Lindsay (02:10:04):
Professional. If Rene, I don't know, Rene knows this better than I do, but when I talk to influencers, there's a, if they're not hoping to get into the business somewhere everyone that we work with is using final cutter. Right. You know, or, or, or native apps for the, for the platform, you know? And, and so, you know, it's, and then when you talk about education and corporate, there's just, unless the only time you see the other ones is you have people who really think that someday they'll be, you know, a lot of corporate is filled with people who think they're gonna some, they end up in Hollywood. And so then they, then they, then they want to do use the right tool that they can do that with. But, but when you have people that are just getting that are paying for the product themselves, and don't get paid by the hour, almost all of them are using final cut, resolve, you know, like it's, you know, that's the, that's the difference? You know,

Rene Ritchie (02:10:48):
The thing that irks me more is that Apple has a bunch of features. I want final cut, but they don't them over. Like, I would love all the snapping that's in keynote. I would love the redu, the move silence. That's in logic. There's just so many little things you just have that engineer walk over there and move it obviously.

Alex Lindsay (02:11:01):
Well, I mean, I, I, I want, I wanna be able to design something. I want all the, the, all the behaviors that keynote has, should be in motion. Like if I want that little thing to drop down or fly over, that should be a behavior in motion. Like I'm the

Rene Ritchie (02:11:15):
Motion filter should be in final cut. Like just propagate that stuff.

Alex Lindsay (02:11:18):
Well, the motion filters you can get into final cut, essentially. I mean, you can go through the, yes. The, the generator projects, but, but the, the you can, but

Rene Ritchie (02:11:25):
The I'm too dumb. Well,

Alex Lindsay (02:11:26):
Yeah. So, well, Alex Goldner can, so, so anyway, hi Alex. So the and Mark Spencer and those guys can, you know, the, but the thing is, is that I do think I would love to be able to build something in keynote, open it in motion and have all those behaviors just come through and then make it better, you know, with what I want to do. I mean, I love the product, I use it all the time, but, but also for me, you know, there's points where I jump off the product. I, I, when I'm doing lots of fast edits and I put things together, I'm using final cut. When I, right now, I have a heavy lifting project that has tons of color and tons of complex sound, and I'm in resolve, you know, like, cuz it's, I just don't know how, I don't know how I would do it. And I don't know how I would do it in final cut and to, to that point, but I don't know, it would take so many coding years for them to close the gap between what resolve has that I'm using and where final cut is right now.

Leo Laporte (02:12:15):
Interesting. So in other words, forget it, guys.

Alex Lindsay (02:12:19):
We can keep on having a sign letter. There's

Leo Laporte (02:12:21):
Not three things

Alex Lindsay (02:12:23):
I just don't think. I just don't think that Apple's going to go down that path. Open

Leo Laporte (02:12:25):
Sign letters often accomplished for a little, it's been more experience

Alex Lindsay (02:12:30):
They're just asking. I think that they're just not thinking about it from a practical level of, of what it's useful.

Leo Laporte (02:12:35):
Apple has a giant market of individuals, YouTube creators and so forth, but the nerd compared how many people, how many film productions were we talking? Hundreds thousand.

Alex Lindsay (02:12:45):
I, this is an unconfirmed rumor. So I'm just gonna lay it out. Unconfirmed that the number one editing app in the world design movie, the number two is final cut. I believe that is a, the number an install base is bigger and than the other ones

Leo Laporte (02:12:57):
Almost guaranteed to be the case. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:13:00):
So,

Leo Laporte (02:13:01):
Well then now

Rene Ritchie (02:13:02):
New, the update is great too.

Leo Laporte (02:13:04):
Yeah. Is it, have you played with it? It's good for again. It's not good for pros. It's good for home users.

Rene Ritchie (02:13:09):
It's good for like, if, if I, if they had live events now and like I don't have the staff of the verge, like the verge has like eight people working on these things and I had to go in there and just put a hands on together. I don't know that I would open final cut. I think I would get my clips. I would open one of those templates. I would throw all of those clips in there and I would be done faster than if I had to build the final

Leo Laporte (02:13:27):
Cut my kids, my

Alex Lindsay (02:13:28):
Kids put together little trailers in, in, I, they go to the Apple store and the Apple store gives you a little tutorial on how to do it. And then, and then they do it and I'm like, these are really fun. Like they're really cool and they're just a template and they just throw them together and it pops out the other end and it's a lot of fun and it's, you know, you're not gonna win an Emmy with it, but, or, but, but it's still, there is so much enjoy it

Leo Laporte (02:13:46):
To that point. I mean, Microsoft actually went out and bought a company with a terrible name, clip champ to put this into windows. So all windows PCs now come with this kind of simple IMO style editor. Oh, for a long time. Songsmith flashback for Songsmith. Yeah. For a long time windows came with windows movie maker, which was really pretty awful. I mean, but I think even Microsoft recognizes you need to have something for the home market like this.

Alex Lindsay (02:14:13):
I think if, if Apple, if Apple really wanted to market themselves, I think that they should go, go do more acquisitions of like motion VFX, which builds templates for motion that work in final cut, just buy them, buy them and, and, and then triple their staff and let them just keep building the coolest templates, you know? And, and it's a and you know, and when you open an emotion, there's all the pieces there. You can pull 'em apart. You can actually learn a lot just by opening their, their projects. And, and so I, I always Apple just buy that and just, just bundle it in like you do with effects, you know, sound and sounds and, and logic and doing more of that. I think Apple would, would do better just giving us more grit and stop worrying about Hollywood than, you know, it's not, they're not two level tools. They're just, it's just such a tiny little market and they're so difficult. Like it's not, you know, like they're,

Leo Laporte (02:14:58):
But remember when they launched final cut, they got Walter merch to use it. I mean, they made a big deal like, oh, look,

Alex Lindsay (02:15:05):
Well, that was because that's because avid said that they were dropping the Mac when Apple was trying to survive.

Leo Laporte (02:15:10):
Oh, that's

Alex Lindsay (02:15:11):
Right. So they got into cross, they got across, they crossed Steve, you know, this was

Leo Laporte (02:15:15):
A, it was a Steve, the

Alex Lindsay (02:15:16):
Final cut final cut was a little hobby until avid wrote that press release. And then it was a weapon. Like it was, you know, like, just like, you know, it's like, it's that scene in, in unforgiving where he is kicking the jeers out of English, Bob, you know, he's like, I'm not kicking you,

Speaker 6 (02:15:31):
Bob. I'm kicking all the other people, you know, all the other guys come here, you know, been telling I'm out in Kansas and in, in Nebraska, you know, this isn't, there's no, there's no gold here. And if there was, you wouldn't want it,

Alex Lindsay (02:15:43):
You know? So that, that's what Apple was doing with

Leo Laporte (02:15:45):
Abbot and incidentally, while they did get a lot of mileage outta that, I think merch has since said it was a, it was a very hard thing to, oh, he said it. Yeah. Even then,

Alex Lindsay (02:15:55):
Or cold mountain

Leo Laporte (02:15:56):
Cold mountain. Yeah. Yeah. But

Alex Lindsay (02:16:00):
He, but he, but he made it happen. I mean, here's the thing with that engineering. Yeah. That in one version, it jumped, you know, 10 versions. It was amaz and it tells you what happens when you're dealing. And, and again, it's one person it's not all on Hollywood. It was a person, the right person. It's gonna give view feedback on exactly what needs to happen next.

Leo Laporte (02:16:16):
So, yeah. Yeah. Alright. Wow. This was good. I think that we, some of the best conversations of the show were in the interstitial conversations in the picks of the week. Thank you gentlemen, as always a learned panel, ReneRitchie, youtube.com/ReneRitchie secret project with Georgia Dow gonna be public at some point.

Rene Ritchie (02:16:39):
Yes. Not announced yet, but yes, we're prepping. We're working hard.

Leo Laporte (02:16:42):
Will it? It's gonna be funny to

Speaker 6 (02:16:43):
Make, make videos that you never, I make a lot of videos that I never release. And so it's like the secret project that will always secret. We just need videos and put them on, not

Rene Ritchie (02:16:50):
Like print. I don't have a vault full of music, videos to be popular. These stuff is gonna come out.

Leo Laporte (02:16:55):
Well, we look forward to it in the meanwhile. Awesome. Youtube.Com/Reneritchie. I like this. This is good. You now got a playlist. Start here. Get Apple smart. Fast. Very cool idea. Oh, thank you. I like that. The playlists I think, and are very valuable. And then of course, there's the ReneRitchie reaction shots of all kinds. Well,

Rene Ritchie (02:17:18):
I was just trying to think like, cuz everyone is like super excited about the M two. So I was trying to figure out like, but if we look at the, a 14 compared to the a 15 and you look at a really good deep dive, like a Nantec produced, you could start to theorize out what M two will be compared to the M one. So I, I went through that mental

Leo Laporte (02:17:32):
Exercise. Sure. What is somebody was asking the chairman? I don't know. What is the clock speed of the M one? Versus the M two, the actual Apple never says, well, we

Rene Ritchie (02:17:40):
Don't know why M two yet, but like the clock, the clock speeds for the M one or the same as the a 50, the M one went up by like, forget like 10% or something. Two went up by 20%. It went from 3.0 to 3.2 and 3.2 to 3.4. So 2.8, the efficiency cores went from 2.8 to 3.0 and the the big cores, the P cores went from three to 3.2 and we anticipate the same thing will happen with these next cores because of the process, the new process note. And because Apple can push it a little faster and bigger enclosures. So I'm figuring like a 10%, eight to 10% bump. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:18:11):
Okay. UN frequencies clock speed. Isn't the, by any means the most important this, the even Apple was at great pains years ago to talk about the megahertz myth. We haven't been megahertz in quite some time, but,

Rene Ritchie (02:18:23):
And Apple will drop it. Like they don't really care about being top right hand corner of the perf graph. They'll much rather have like longer battery life. They'll trade that off every day.

Leo Laporte (02:18:29):
Right? Three put two is not shabby. That's a decent, Nope. Clock speed.

Rene Ritchie (02:18:35):
And turns out like all the ones that go faster. They, they need like, even in phones, they need vapor chambers and Apple doesn't

Leo Laporte (02:18:40):
Resort to that. Yeah. Right. Ay, NACA. When are you gonna be on GBH next

Andy Ihnatko (02:18:45):
Day early this week, but 1230 on Thursday, go to WGB news.org to stream at live or later.

Leo Laporte (02:18:52):
And is your favorite diner still serving the, the finest cinnamon buns and known to man or whatever it is you like?

Andy Ihnatko (02:19:02):
Let's

Leo Laporte (02:19:03):
Get, we're gonna do Andy's diner pick of the week from now on.

Andy Ihnatko (02:19:07):
I will, I will say that my, my current favorite diner has a April special of pineApple upside down pancakes that I've been holding. I've been holding out for until like a day when I feel like I really, really need pineApple upside down pancakes. It's it's gonna have to happen probably tomorrow morning. I think.

Leo Laporte (02:19:24):
Wow. That sounds pretty darn good.

Andy Ihnatko (02:19:27):
If you see, yeah, this is, this is it's medically contraindicated, unless you, if, if, if you're, if you, if you feel as though you're going to a diner thinking that no, I went to a diner two or three weeks ago, it would be medically in advisable for me to have a diner breakfast more frequently than like once or twice every two months, then you're not, I hearing correctly. You need, you need to basically say all rules are off. If there, if there is a chocolate fudge brownie pancake waffle with a, with a, with a, with a, with AAM, MASU burrito next to it, I'm gonna order

Leo Laporte (02:19:59):
It. But, but don't turn down the doll, whip pineApple upside down pancake. Cause that would be a nice topping on that. Just

Andy Ihnatko (02:20:07):
Ash I'm able they're okay with bringing things in from the outside. So

Leo Laporte (02:20:10):
I'll think about that. Thank you, Andy. Alex Lindsay, office hours.global 24 7, the place to find out about, well, just about anything you'd ever want to know,

Andy Ihnatko (02:20:22):
We're

Alex Lindsay (02:20:22):
Talking about, this is Friday. Our, our, our morning session is talking about craft services,

Leo Laporte (02:20:28):
But

Alex Lindsay (02:20:28):
See, I think that's great. I think

Alex Lindsay (02:20:31):
Cause tomorrow, tomorrow, you know, yesterday we were covering you know, the black magic tomorrow we're covering Maxons launch. And then we're talking about being a host actually on Thursday. And and then, but Fri Friday, it's, we're talking about crafty. That's nice. And I, I will say though, though, if you're interested in live events, we are now doing stuff with some concerts. We have, you know, I have a test stage that I'm working on and I, every once in a while we get to take it over and we have the, one of the top concert directors in the world calling the show from her home in Omaha, Nebraska. And we have people who are coming in to learn, to do the camera operation. And there's people who are cut. I was cutting the show in the last one, but you get to listen to the coms, you get to listen to her, call the show and it changes everything about how you think about cutting a show. And I would, if you're in into anything like that, I would highly recommend it. We don't put 'em up online because it's, it's a little more, you know, but, but but yeah, and that's Todd re Todd Reynolds,

Leo Laporte (02:21:25):
Super Saturday, Sabado, Gigante. It's amazing. Playing a fiddle.

Alex Lindsay (02:21:30):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:21:31):
That's amazing is right.

Alex Lindsay (02:21:32):
I mean, we're, he's like Phil harmonic level violinist and, and he, he also, by the way, has a ton of modular sins and he mixes it all together and he loops it and wow. So it's, it's quite a thing.

Leo Laporte (02:21:46):
This is amazing office hours, duck global. And if you wanna high Alex and his dozen max studios to stream your next event. Oh, nine oh.media. Oh nine. Oh.Media. Thank you, Alex.

Alex Lindsay (02:22:01):
Thank

Leo Laporte (02:22:01):
You. Thank you all for joining us. We do MacBreak Weekly every Tuesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern 1800 UTC. You can watch just do it live. If you want@livedottwi.tv. If you're watching live chat, live@ircdottwit.tv or in our club TWiT discord server. But if you're, you know, you don't need to watch us live. If you're, you know, when you wanna watch us, whenever you feel like it, we've got on demand versions of all of our shows. It's a podcast really. I mean, I don't like to say that, but it is. If you go to twit.tv/mbw, you can download audio or video. You can also get a YouTube. There's a YouTube channel dedicated to it. So you can just watch on YouTube or send clips from YouTube to friends and so forth. And of course the best thing to do would be to subscribe in your favorite podcast player. And that way you'll get it automatically. You don't have to think about it just whenever you're in the mood. You'll can listen to MacBreak Weekly. And if your podcast client allows reviews, please tell the world about MacBreak Weekly, leave us a five star review. It would make me an all the gang. Very happy. Thank you so much for being, we'll see you next time. Now get back to work. Cuz break time is over that number again? 88 88, ask Leo,

Ant Pruitt (02:23:14):
Did you spend a lot of money on your brand new smartphone? And then you look at the pictures on Facebook and Instagram and you're like, what in the world happened to that photo? Yes you have. I know it happens to all of us. Well, you need to check out my show Hands-On Photography, where I'm going to walk you through simple tips and tricks that are gonna help make you get the most out of your smartphone camera or your DSLR or mirrorless, whatever you have. And those shots are gonna look so much better. I promise you so make sure you're tuning into twit.tv/hop for Hands-On Photography to find out more.