MacBreak Weekly Episode 884 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Mac break weekly. Andy and I goes here, jason snows here, alex Lindsey has a day off, but good news from Apple insider Steven Robles, the bearded teacher joins us. We will talk about the invites. They went out, who got him, who didn't, and what are the differences? Plus, where's the AR version? What will Apple announced September 12th, gave away the date and why we think maybe the iPad might be the next computer in your life. All that coming up next on Mac break weekly.

This is Mac break weekly, episode 884, recorded Tuesday, august 29th 2023. Cuckoo, cuckoo. This episode of Macbreak weekly is brought to you by ACILearning. IT skills are outdated in about 18 months. Launch or advance your career today with quality, affordable, entertaining training individuals. Use the code TWIT 30 for 30% off a standard or premium individual IT pro membership at go.acilearning.com/twit

And by ZocDoc, the free app where you can find and book appointments online with thousands of top rated, patient reviewed physicians and specialists. Filter specifically for the ones who take your insurance, are located near you and treat almost any condition. Go to ZocDoc.com/Macbreak and download the ZocDoc app for free. And by Mylio. Mylio photos is a smart and powerful system that lets you easily organize, edit and manage years of important documents, photos and videos in an offline library hosted on any device, and it's free. Visit mylio.com/twit. It's time for Macbreak Weekly. The show where we cover the latest news from Apple and, yes, there is news. We'll get to that in a moment. Jason Snell is here from six colors dot com. Hello, jason.

0:02:10 - Jason Snell
Hey Leo, good to be here.

0:02:11 - Leo Laporte
Zeppelin dot flights. Slash Jason L for his mastodon, for your mastodon runs a very own mastodon, the incomparable mastodon. It's very own. I like that Zeppelin, that family domains.

0:02:24 - Jason Snell
It's good. It's a good one. I have to social it's kind of boring.

0:02:28 - Leo Laporte
Now I think you know. I wonder if I get to that Zeppelin. Oh no, you already own the Zeppelin. Never mind, annie, and I go from beautiful New England, wg, bh, boston. Hello Andrew.

0:02:41 - Andy Ihnakto
Can you get twit dot heli gyro or something, if? You're, I need some vintage, you know twit dot, faton or some vintage vehicle to go something, something that a crackpot inventor in a 1960s Disney movie would be, would be traveling around in Chitty, chitty, bang bang dot com.

0:03:00 - Leo Laporte
Good to see you, andrew. I'm gonna be out your way. I'll talk about that in just a little bit, but first I want to welcome, from Hurricane soaked Florida, mr Stephen Robles. Hello, stephen.

0:03:10 - Stephen Robles
Hello, thanks for having me back. It's a pleasure to be here the bearded teacher, beard dot FM.

0:03:17 - Leo Laporte
He, he, I'm gonna get a little update on podcast movement because you were I know you were there because you did a whole show with Micah- I did.

0:03:23 - Stephen Robles
We did it alive on the show floor and I used all the tools to get that noise out of there.

0:03:29 - Leo Laporte
Boy Lisa was also there, told me that she did a panel and you couldn't hear anything because all the panels are in the same area, all highly amplified. It's not awful.

0:03:39 - Stephen Robles
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? Putting five live stages on the expo, full floor, you know, hall, no problem.

0:03:47 - Leo Laporte
No problem at all. Yeah, crazy, we'll discuss that, but first I think there's some news from Apple, the word.

0:03:56 - Jason Snell
No, it's not news. It's news that there will be news. It's not actually. No, this is news.

0:04:02 - Leo Laporte
Look, we've been holding on for this for some time. Ok, let's call it news.

0:04:06 - Andy Ihnakto
Mark, mark and whip, and we jump right through that.

0:04:10 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, whatever they want. Mark Gurman said it would be September 12, the iPhone 15, apple Watch Series 9 event. And sure, low and behold, it's announced. You got the invite, jason.

0:04:26 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I mean it was showing up in everybody's mailboxes. It's what do they call it?

0:04:34 - Stephen Robles
It's a wonderlust.

0:04:35 - Leo Laporte
Wonderlust. First of all, I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you that Apple used the word lust in a sentence. Wanderlust is what? The desire to travel. What's wonderlust?

0:04:50 - Andy Ihnakto
I wonder how Apple managed to screw up USB C so they could still be us defiant of saying we didn't make us do anything we didn't want to do. Enjoy, enjoy your like 1200 Baw data connections. Stupid, stupid person.

0:05:08 - Stephen Robles
I love it. I'm counting on Thunderbolt Thunderbolt's coming.

0:05:11 - Leo Laporte
Thunderbolt. Oh, there's the wonder, wonder, wonder. So I don't know. I mean, I guess the good news is you can Google wonderlust and pretty much find Apple right away. So I'm making up a name.

0:05:27 - Jason Snell
Yeah, just another marketing tag to let us spin our wheels for another couple of weeks. But the idea here is that we're going to get that iPhone event and it's going to happen, like Mark German said, and iPhone and Apple Watch, and who knows if there'll be anything other than that. I guess we'll get spoiled about all that in the next couple of weeks, because this is when the rumors really start flying.

0:05:45 - Leo Laporte
Don't confuse it with the 2020 movie wonderlust the preachers in love with the sunshine. Schizophrenic the range runner has a family of five, with one more on the way, and the professor is a cerebral alcohol aficionado. As for Slab City's unofficial sheriff, he shot and killed his stepfather at age six.

0:06:05 - Jason Snell
That's it. You spoiled it. That's what it is.

0:06:10 - Leo Laporte
Here's the movie that Apple be playing on the stage. Tim Cook's going to come out say good morning. We'd like to show you a movie about a preacher in love with the sunshine schizophrenic, that would be funny, but not for very long.

0:06:26 - Jason Snell
So they are going to announce what Jason iPhone, apple Watch, maybe other things related to those. If you think about it, the Apple Watch is kind of the ultimate iPhone accessory, but you know they'll, they'll have a new set of accessories and maybe maybe it'll be an AirPods thing or not, I don't know, but like it would not be a bad time for that, maybe they could do a reset on some of their services. It is the thing I always think about the iPhone event is that it is Apple's most watched event of the year. It is. It is the most popular product, and so people pay attention, which not only means that they'll talk about the new iPhone, but they're going to talk about other stuff that they want to get in front of people's eyes.

So, whatever that might be, this is your chance to get out in front of the biggest audience you get in a year, and all of us who work in media around Apple know that this is the one that has the biggest audience. Like people are interested in the iPhone. So new, new, high end iPhone is the rumor right. We've been talking about it all summer. Titanium instead of stainless steel, which is great, because stainless steel is really heavy and so these should be lighter phones. You know, change the colors, a lot of rumors about camera upgrades, usbc there's a bunch of stuff that they're throwing in here. I think that this is potentially a the most appreciable iPhone change in the next or in the last, like two or three years.

0:07:45 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, particularly for camera fans, and also there's we're still hearing rumors left and right about maybe this. We're going to see a price increase, at least on the pros that some people aren't going to like. Who knows, but we'll find out in a couple of weeks. Anyway, I'm keen to say Apple is probably one of the few companies that can get get by with saying you know what? We have decided to jack up the price of our very, very tippity, topity, most phones by another, let's say $100, because a we know that people can absorb it and be. If it puts some distance between the pros and the more affordable ones, it will make the more affordable ones seem like budget phones and that's right up our alley to.

0:08:24 - Stephen Robles
I'm also curious the whole ecosystem of lightning devices that is still out there, like the MagSafe Duo, apple's MagSafe battery pack, all the AirPods cases and even AirPods Max how many of those will actually see switch to USBC along with the phone? I would think AirPods at least it might be a case update, even if they don't release new versions of it. They might say now shipping with usb-c or you can buy usb-c case, but things like the MagSafe Duo, I think, is long due for a refresh. I use it still sometimes but, like even with the Apple watch, it's a little janky. You know you can't really have the little Apple Watch charger all the way up in 90 degrees because the Apple Watch is too big. So curious how they're going to refresh those different devices to match usb-c alongside with the iPhone 15.

0:09:06 - Andy Ihnakto
I wonder if they're going to have a new. They already have like a usb-c to lightning cable, but I wonder if they're going to do like a dongle, like when they replace the coin slot the standard iPod connector with lightning.

0:09:22 - Leo Laporte
Do they need you, though? I mean, I think actually, in some ways it's good. Apple says but don't worry, all those lightning cables and accessories you bought will still be useful for charging your AirPods. So there's that, yeah congratulations.

0:09:39 - Andy Ihnakto
I don't know that Apple could come out and say our customers love the lightning cable and we're happy to announce that you can still carry one with you wherever you go, because the lightning because your AirPods won't be able to charge with you.

0:09:53 - Leo Laporte
Is that the only thing left? They changed the Apple TV remote to type C right.

0:09:59 - Jason Snell
All the Mac accessories trackpad and mouse and keyboard are all lightning.

0:10:05 - Andy Ihnakto
Aren't there some earlier like cheaper iPads that are still lightning Sure yeah.

0:10:11 - Jason Snell
I haven't been updated. I think there are. Are there iPads, the iPads? Yeah, there's, like the previous generation iPad. I think that's still kicking out there, but they've been turning over a lot of their products for a while now. But yeah, this is why a lot of us say the rumors that the IMAX is going to finally get an M3 this fall seems like the right time for them to refresh their keyboard and mouse and trackpad so that they don't charge on lightning and we can just clear lightning out of the entire product line and this even makes it makes a good point that I wonder how many features this USB connect USB-C connector are going to have.

0:10:44 - Andy Ihnakto
like it would be wonderful if it were Thunderbolt like, like on the on the iPad Pros you might.

0:10:51 - Leo Laporte
that's expensive though the licensing for thunderbolt expensive, I don't see Apple.

0:10:55 - Andy Ihnakto
It's expensive. I mean they could put it on the pros, especially if they say, hey, look how much, look how big the video files that we're creating with our new wonderful high definition stuff are. It would be incredible if they use that connector to also do things like guess what? You can also connect video directly to the bottom of the device again. But this would be another reason to say here's why the iPhone the pro line is a very, very special kind of rarefied sort of device. It does things that are for people who are just want the phone that has absolutely everything in it, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense. I don't think you're going to see like a second screen capability on an iPhone ever, but it would be interesting to see, like if they decide to put lightning on it, what they would allow that port to do.

0:11:43 - Jason Snell
Or thunderbolt. Yeah, that's the sorry, that's the. That's the question, I don't know. I mean, I think that it's not a high percentage chance, but like, how do you define pro? I mean, they've already got a stage manager on the iPad. Like, would they ever think, like, yeah, it's pro, if you want to plug that thunderbolt into a display, it you get basically like stage manager, like it's an iPad and you can work on that if you want to? I doubt they'll do that. I think they want you to buy an iPad or a Mac, do that. But like, you do think that they've got to be running through all the ideas of like, how do we define a pro feature? What are the things that we can put in this phone to justify its higher price? And potentially it's even higher, higher price.

0:12:23 - Leo Laporte
So I'm on the Apple website with the little dissolving Apple on my iPhone. How do I do the VR with this, the? Where can I make the Apple appear dissolving in my you hope?

0:12:36 - Stephen Robles
you are a feature this year yeah, nine nine to five.

0:12:39 - Andy Ihnakto
Mac says that this is the first time since 2020 when they've had one of these invites that did not have an AR like well, there you go.

0:12:46 - Leo Laporte
They're giving up on a I knew they would. The vision pro is history. It's all over, yeah.

0:12:54 - Andy Ihnakto
Why didn't they do it with? I'm sorry, I like bandwagon, so it's not going to wait on that bandwagon.

0:13:00 - Jason Snell
You gotta wait for the vision pro now.

0:13:01 - Leo Laporte
It's not good enough unless oh okay, me that's yeah like we would do it, but we want you to do it right, wonderlust.

0:13:09 - Andy Ihnakto
That was that was. That was AR for poor people, and Apple is not in the poor people AR.

0:13:14 - Leo Laporte
Maybe get your checkbook ready. Please join us for a special Apple event broadcasting from Apple Park. That's interesting if they use that phrase broadcasting before where they finally decided to let you know. It's not going to be anything that you couldn't see at home.

0:13:30 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I think they've done that before. Okay, I think that the idea is that they're they're streaming. That's for the stream. Right, there are two invitations. Right, there's the invitation to come to Apple Park and there's the invitation to watch the stream.

0:13:40 - Leo Laporte
Oh interesting. So baby Mark German's like me.

0:13:46 - Jason Snell
I was invited to watch Leo. Were you invited to watch the stream, though?

0:13:50 - Leo Laporte
because if you, weren't invited to watch the stream. I wasn't even a little embarrassing. You can't even watch the stream report. Well, I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway. September 12th, which is a Tuesday, right, it's a very specific time. I will be in Rhode Island at my mom's, so I guess I'll be doing the show from my mom's basement something you thought I should be.

0:14:20 - Andy Ihnakto
Anyway, I know I, you know you're. I think this is a time where you want to be with family.

0:14:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you want to be sharing this momentous moment together. My sister, my mom and I will be holding hands when they announce the iPhone 15.

0:14:35 - Andy Ihnakto
She's going to freak out when she learns that there's a periscope camera involved.

0:14:39 - Jason Snell
It's you know.

0:14:39 - Andy Ihnakto
She looks like she has a thing about periscopes. We don't know how it happened, but you know will there be a crank, though?

0:14:44 - Leo Laporte
because if there could only be a crank, then I would be interested. You could be the crank, leo. Thank you very much. So yours does not say it's funny that German got one that says watch the stream at Applecom.

0:15:04 - Jason Snell
He was invited for a little while but then he wasn't. You know Apple's. I will say this about that event. That event is at the Steve Jobs Theater and it's got a pretty decent capacity. But again, the iPhone event is the biggest event and it's also the most international event. They invite media from all over the world to come to that event. There's a lot of broadcast media that comes to that event.

It is the toughest of all of the tickets when there's an event at Apple Park because of the interest in the iPhone and they do make a real effort to get people there from all over the world. And so it's always the one where you see people getting. You know some people get invited and some people don't and then, like, people sneak in later when other people are dropping out and it is a. It's a tough ticket. It's like you know any any tough ticket for a concert or something like that. You can tell they're not as free with the invitations as they are for something like a Mac event, certainly, or even W WC, where they've got a lot of extra stuff.

You don't have to make me feel.

0:16:07 - Leo Laporte
That's why I didn't even get to get the invite Mark Gurman got for just say watch this online. Here's the one that you got Jason that says oh please join you, join us in person for a special. Apple, all it pass and everything with Steve Jobs Theater in Apple Park September 12th, 10 am Pacific RSVP. So did you RSVP already?

0:16:30 - Jason Snell
or click that, click that little button. Yeah, click the button. I keep clicking it.

0:16:33 - Andy Ihnakto
Nothing happens. If you don't know French, they don't want you. So that's still. It's funny, isn't that funny?

0:16:40 - Leo Laporte
I'll find this you play Spongebou.

0:16:46 - Andy Ihnakto
But Jason Races is a good point. It's like there's there's been a shift, like in the past five or 10 years, where it's like most of the seats in that theater are for specific purposes, so to speak, where it's not that, hey, we're going to get the. If we've got 500 invites to give to the press, we're going to get the 500 most influential members of the press, the 500 members of the press for the largest audience. There's going to be where some seats that we want to fill because they are they have you. There are YouTubers with really huge audiences. They are somewhere going to fill because they work for newspapers and journalists that outpost, outposts of record somewhere.

This is part of the, this is part of the marketing that we're not really reaching, and we want to make sure we reach out to this part of the market or this part of the country and people who just have a really good relationship with Apple, and that's a very and that's a. That's not meant as a sucky up sort of thing. It means that they just they're very, very good at. You know, here's what I would like, here's what I need. If this is available, this would be great.

And so if and if it turns out that there are seats available, then this person, who you may not have heard of and you don't think goodness, this person doesn't have much of an audience. That's how they, that's how they get in, because they are very, very good at doing their job, which is to if I, if there's a seat there, I want to try to get in there, and so that's why they sort of keep tugging at the ear and that sort of thing. So there, I mean what Jason could probably remember there was like who was? It was that was tracking, like they're, they're maintaining a chart of who got invited, who didn't get invited, who got early hardware, early hardware, and it's like, oh geez, I mean, this is high school.

high school was a long time ago and I don't want to do that again.

0:18:24 - Jason Snell
I mean they're mysterious. I mean there are different groups and different marketing groups and they have. They all have different reasons. This has always been the case, dating back to the early days of Steve Jobs. Sometimes people get invitations and you're like, why? And other people don't? You're like huh, and that's just. You know, they have different, different allotments for different things, and so you'll have like print journalists and broadcast journalists and YouTubers and podcasters and like everybody's in a different slot, and then international PR, which is not domestic PR, and then there's the VIPs and the analysts and anybody who's mentioned in the keynote and, like all of those things go into it. It is, it is complicated and, like I said, this is the toughest.

0:19:09 - Andy Ihnakto
And they also include some seats, I think, still for engineers, people who are working, who are working the crunch hours it's, it's, it's a sort of place. Thank you very much for working so hard to get this door. We're getting you a seat at the at the at the event, so that you can be there when we show off all the Apple people sit in front.

0:19:25 - Jason Snell
Jason, and then general VIPs and the Apple people sit in front, although now that they don't show that, they're just showing a video, I think maybe the rules are a little bit different. Like, do you need to be in the theater to show your product off when nobody's going to see it? Because nobody's actually watching the theater? They're just watching the video on the screen, maybe, but the rule so it's a little bit different, because you're not part of the show when you're there. But it used to be. They would stack up Apple employees and VIPs in down at the bottom by the stage, and they were the ones who you could. Actually there was no applause sign. You can tell when they were expected to applaud in order to create that kind of moment or audience.

Feel expectant pause in the flow, like by the end, know, by the end the the applause has happened before the applause line. It was really like by the end of their live events. They were really pumping that up.

0:20:17 - Leo Laporte
See, jim, I'm applauding. I'm applauding Jim, see, yeah.

0:20:24 - Andy Ihnakto
That's another thing I often speculate about. Remember that the Steve Jobs Theater was purpose built for like media events like these, just like the Coliseum was meant for for for Brits and Britain Circuses like I do you. Does anybody think there's a zero percent chance that part of the air conditioning system is the ability to put more oxygen into the room when they feel the event should have as much oxygen in the room as possible?

0:20:51 - Jason Snell
It's a letter men's thing where they like, they think he'd like a locker so you can never, you can never fall asleep and you're always, always in there.

0:21:00 - Leo Laporte
Why do I? We keep it pretty cool in here too, because, as you know, I'm prone to drifting off.

0:21:09 - Andy Ihnakto
That's bad for the press. Because we have to. We have to wear those, like Bob Cratchett fingerless mittens.

0:21:13 - Speaker 5
Because we got to keep our joints limber as we're typing and taking notes.

0:21:18 - Leo Laporte
Okay, this will be fun. We know everything there is to know at this point about the iPhone 15, although there was an interesting story from A warming G, as Renee Richie likes to call him, in Chiquot that Apple is already shipping in vast quantities the iPhone 15 Pro Max, like it's on the boat on this way here.

0:21:41 - Jason Snell
This is there was a rumor that Sony couldn't supply camera parts fast enough, right and so that it was going to be one of those things where the main phone was going to be available in two weeks or next week but the other phone was going to be in October or something like that. And it means you quo is super reliable supply chain guy and he's like no, they're making lots of them. So it doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be limited supply and that you might get back ordered, but it does sound like it's not going to be one of those we don't have them for a month kind of things.

0:22:10 - Leo Laporte
It maybe Quo writes the market and I'm reading a translation from Apple insider, your publication, stephen the market is concerned that iPhone 15 shipments will be further cut due to supply chain issues. My estimate of 80 million units versus conservative views of 70 to 80 million units. Especially the iPhone 15 Pro Max shipments will be delayed. However, the fact is, the iPhone 15 Pro Max will start mass shipments this week, and that is this week, and Apple is also increasing shipments of legacy models simultaneously. So no, there sounds like probably you know there won't be a shortage on any of the 15s and even some of the older ones.

0:22:50 - Stephen Robles
It does seem like, though, this is one of the years where the Pro Max is going to be a different camera than the Pro model, and I think the last time this happened was the iPhone 12. It's been parody on the 13 and 14, but it seems like maybe that periscope camera is going to be reserved just for the larger size, because physics and engineering, and so even if it's available at the same time, I don't care to say. I think it's going to be a different year for the Pro and Pro Max cameras.

0:23:15 - Leo Laporte
It also the rumor is it's going to be more expensive, like a couple hundred bucks more than, which means we're really pushing. We're getting closer and closer to that $2,000 mark.

0:23:24 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, but it's okay because this is one we it's. I think we're always going to be debating. What does the word pro mean? What does the word Max mean, I mean? What does it signify? I think they've spent enough time establishing this as.

No, this is not necessarily like the phone for the masses. This is designed to be the most expensive phone that we make, and we're also the compute. Other companies make super expensive phones because they have folding screens. We are putting I don't know Cupertino Elfin magic into ours with dust on top of every pixel and so long as they can back it up there, the Apple, you know the Apple market is such that there are people who that will that will not think twice about spending extra $200 to have the very best version of the iPhone that they can get.

And I mean, I don't think Apple is a company, such a style driven company, that they're not going to give you exclusive features that are going to be highly desirable. But I think that the their focus is always going to be on the real iPhone is just, is the iPhone nothing? And we're going to give the best experiences to the people who are going to be buying the most quantities of this specific phone. It's the. It's the top level pro models that allow us to really flex and try out things that we're not going to be able to put into mass market phones for another couple of years yet. Yeah.

0:24:41 - Stephen Robles
Just the year a dynamic island comes to the 15, or do we think it's another year away?

0:24:45 - Leo Laporte
The rumor was that dynamic I would come to the 15 and leave the pro max that they're going to go. I don't know what these rumors mean I don't believe.

0:24:54 - Jason Snell
I believe that I think they like the dynamic island and that it's a feature and that put it everywhere because it's a nice. It's not just a way to get around cutouts on your screen, but it's also kind of the modern iPhone equivalent of the status bar, the menu bar on the Mac. It's a good, useful place to put information. Every time I use I travel, I use flighty, which is a travel tracking app, and it uses the dynamic island to put up, like when your flight's leaving and what, what gate it's at and like. It's really great. So I think it's going to be everywhere. I think that I think they like it and it's a, it's one of these like the notch was before, but it's like an identifying feature of the iPhone that makes you go. That's an iPhone. Yeah, I think it'll be everywhere.

0:25:36 - Stephen Robles
I'm sorry, go ahead, I'm finally seeing more apps actually using it to actually recently saw Instagram for better, for worse like, if you're going to upload a story, it actually puts the upload progress up there in the dynamic island, because Instagram is weird where if you navigate away from the app and you're adding a story, sometimes it doesn't finish. Well, now it actually gives you some of that progress is like a live activity, which I thought was pretty cool. So it's been a year, but I think we're going to see more apps start using it to better effect.

0:26:02 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, google, there's a. There's a rumor that Google is actually going to have their live activities ready in time for the iPhone 15, which is good. I mean, it really is one of the most in the history of Apple. I think it's one of the most brilliant user interface elements they've ever done, and it's and it's almost, it's almost incidental that it solves a big problem which is, oh gosh, we won't be able to get the bezels we want unless we have.

We've mastered this sort of under display camera and sensor technology, which is a great way to do it, which is not really working great as far as every parts manufacturer that I've heard of that's trying to do like under display fingerprint sensors, under display cameras, under display FLIR and that sort of stuff, and they've taken it just basically made this entire thing just an obsolete question, because it's not just a, it's not just a workaround or a hack. It really is just. It's almost as if that's the way they designed that thing to be from the very, very beginning. It's, it is. It is exactly the sort of elegance, that and fascinating user face elements that you kind of want to see from Apple. You're not. They're not being stagnant. They've proved that they're still thinking and they're still coming up with great ideas.

0:27:16 - Leo Laporte
Is one of the issues Apple faces that people aren't really upgrading as much as they used to. Is it on? Is the burden on Apple to put something in every new phone that makes even the previous years phone owners say, oh, I really want that.

0:27:33 - Jason Snell
Well, I don't think that's the burden. I think the cycle is really widened right. So it's going to be people most people, maybe not people who watch this show, but most people don't buy a new phone every year or every two years. It's like three years or four years. As the smartphone matures, that gets wider and wider. So it's incumbent on Apple to keep iterating and keep improving.

But they are, I think, selling for somebody who's got a three-year-old phone and a four-year-old phone, and there is some degree of one or two-year-old phones where they're doing a return and then they're reselling that phone on because their goal is to keep expanding the install base. But realistically, when you're buying, most people who buy the brand new phone are going to be people who are buying it not just for this year's features but also for that last year's features and probably the years before features, and it's always important to keep that in mind. It's really like so you've got an iPhone 11 and you want a new iPhone. Here's all the things you're going to get, and then you have to detail 12 and 13 and 14 and 15 and what are all the features of all of those in order to do it. Because it's just, yeah, it's very rare that somebody unless you're on an annual plan, in which case you're blocked in you're buying one regardless of what's in it. It's all about that cumulative effect, because the cycle's way longer than it used to be.

0:28:53 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, and I don't think it's terribly, unlike the way that automakers have to keep tweaking the design of an established car year after year after year. They have to make sure that they know that. They know that there are very few car buyers that are going to be trading in a car every single year. But the thing is, if they get to 50, 60, 70,000 miles, they want to trade in for a new model, and they're good enough customers. They want the new version of this. You'd better not be giving them the exact same body style. You'd better not be giving them the same interior, because these things actually matter when it comes to keeping people excited about your brand. So it's not as though Apple is going to do nothing, but hey look, our chamfered edges are a little bit rounder this year. Isn't that exciting? But the people who are coming in after another two or three years have to absolutely think that this is a fresh, brand new phone as opposed to hey, I'm just going to go to Best Buy and just get something used.

0:29:42 - Leo Laporte
And that comes down really to the camera for the most part right, I don't even think the fact that it's got a three nanometer processor in it, which the higher end ones will probably will be the kind of thing that anybody will know in the real world except us. Right, it's the camera, and the Periscope is the biggest. That gives us what a super zoom. I mean I have that on my Samsung S23 Ultra. That's a 200x digital, a 10x optical zoom. That's the Periscope.

0:30:11 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, that's a game changer when you can extend the range of the optical zoom. That's, I mean, that's when you start using this thing as a real camera as opposed to a feature of your phone, and so it's a long, long time coming. I wouldn't necessarily say that Apple has been behind Samsung and Google in terms of their phone hardware, but oh, you can really see the difference when you if you spend, if you spend a couple of weeks using the latest iPhone and then spend the late a couple of weeks using the, the latest flagship phone from Samsung or Google. Gee, why is it that, like my phones, my phone, this new phone's cameras are so much clearer and so much sharper and I don't have to use crappy like digital zoom effects. It's actually shooting. It's shooting better videos, it's shooting better everything, because clever computational tricks are wonderful and they're an important part of mobile photography. But you start off with how good of an optical process are you getting? And you can't really trump anybody who's got better optics and a better sensor than you've got.

0:31:14 - Stephen Robles
I actually can't wait. There were some rumors about the iPhone 16 because why not talk about the iPhone 16 when the 15 is just now getting launched? But the rumor was that the ultra wide lens would get 48 megapixels and that's going to be exciting for the macro photography, which already is amazing, you know, on the 14 pro. But I think that'll be pretty cool next year when we talk about the iPhone 16.

0:31:35 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, those are the cool things we're seeing, like astrophotography, which was not possible a generation ago. Really great macro photography, which was not possible, like a generation ago. That's the sort of stuff that keeps you like loyal to a phone maker If they give you everything you can use all the same apps, all the same user interface. You got the dynamic island you liked so much in the last phone, but now, oh my God, this does things that have that. This does things for photography that could not possibly even think about doing for the past two and a half years since I've had this, this older phone. That's what keeps you into that ecosystem.

0:32:08 - Leo Laporte
I've shown this before, so forgive me if you're bored, but one more time. This is the S 23 ultra periscope lens. This is just with the regular lens and slowly zooming in. Note those two people in the middle at the distance. I'm going to zoom in a little bit more on them. At some point it's going to go. I think this is still optical. At some point it's going to go digital. Maybe that that might be digital. It's pretty good digital. I'm getting closer and that's clearly digital, because it's not. The quality is not very good, but, boy that you can. That is a huge zoom and you can see how people might get. And, by the way, the image quality is very, very good. I mean, they also use the Sony sensors, I believe.

0:32:53 - Andy Ihnakto
So yeah, I mean that's, that's plenty good for social media, it's plenty. It's a good guy. I mean it's to somebody, it's incredible. And when and when you're, when you're at half that distance now, you're still good enough for an eight by 10 for the sofa table.

0:33:06 - Leo Laporte
We also. This is not going to send people to the stores, but they're going to replace the stainless steel with what did they say? Titanium, titanium, titanium, that's lighter. That's the biggest deal of that, though I kind of like the stainless. You know, the surgical steel shininess, titanium. His fingerprint he does I guess I keep it, I keep it.

0:33:27 - Jason Snell
So I don't really know. Titanium is anodizable, so it'll just. It'll be an anodized titanium, presumably, at whatever their colors are. The rumors for the colors are super boring. It's like gray, darker, gray, lighter gray, or gray and blue, which, but really a gray blue.

0:33:42 - Leo Laporte
Now this may be a fake, I don't know. I think at the time we'd get real images because they, as you said, as as uh mean mean, she quote said they're shipping them to put them in palettes and putting them on container ships right now, or maybe seven, 47s this is a image from you know, a rumor image with showing the type C connector and a greenish, blue, gray, blue maybe.

0:34:02 - Jason Snell
Yeah, that's the. That's the iPhone 15, though right, those are the brighter colors. The pro models are going to be the ones where it's sort of like silver, gray, black, dark blue. They're pro. Yeah yeah, we want them to be as boring as possible.

0:34:17 - Leo Laporte
So this is the green of the iPhone, uh, 15.

0:34:21 - Stephen Robles
Not which I'm still bitter, because green is my favorite color and the one pro model that had green was launched, made a year, and so if you had bought the iPhone I think it was the 13 pro on launch day you couldn't get the green. Unfortunately, green is pretty.

0:34:35 - Leo Laporte
Green is pretty. I know Micah wants green. Um, good color. Yeah, is that the kind of more? Now, this is also the 15 cause I can see the from the camera configuration. So I don't know, is this real or a mockup? We don't know. This just, uh, it's a rumor.

0:34:51 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, there was, there was. Someone tweeted a whole stack of components that were purportedly USB, USB C connectors coming in all the different color ways. There's a, there's a great black.

0:35:02 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, Somebody was saying, oh, maybe those braided cables really go to a MacBook, but um cause? Yeah, we do get braided cables with our Mac books. Those are nice, those are pretty.

0:35:13 - Andy Ihnakto
But this. But this is like two weeks before the announcement. This is when they have to let in a whole bunch of people into the secret that they wouldn't have trusted three days earlier than that. So who knows? And the thing is, we are, we are going to know for sure, we're going to find out in two weeks.

0:35:27 - Leo Laporte
So just relax, okay, just relax.

0:35:29 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, and I know, yeah, and you know I'm, I'm, I'm with you, steven. It's like I. I. I appreciate the fact that people who want like a phone in an alarming color. They can buy a $20 case and get it in the wackiest colors they want. That's not the purpose of the people who are designing the phone color itself. But I would just love to see just one freak color and the color wages one, not just not just sort of a yellow, but just how yellow? Can we make a phone that much yellow plus two more notches up?

0:36:04 - Stephen Robles
I was. I actually. I took my family recently to Washington DC and they have a an exhibit in the national museum of natural history of iPhone, of phone parts you know the raw materials that make up a phone and they had this glass case in the exhibit of old phones, including flip phones, black berries and a few iPhones, including the iPhone five C. They have the white five C and the green and my 14 year old son was like these iPhones look amazing. What are these? I said oh, those are the old ones that were plastic but they were cool colors.

0:36:33 - Leo Laporte
People like yeah, I like the. I like the people who take their old phone and take it apart and make an exploded, you know image image of it. I would like here's a four S exploded image. Let me go to the website.

0:36:48 - Andy Ihnakto
In the case of the battery, sometimes literally this is the.

0:36:52 - Stephen Robles
This is the iPhone four.

0:36:53 - Leo Laporte
This is the oh, you got one. Look at that.

0:36:55 - Stephen Robles
Grid studio. Yeah, this is the iPhone four.

0:36:57 - Leo Laporte
It was my first iPhone, so this is why I wanted this, did you send it to them and they exploded it for you or no.

0:37:03 - Stephen Robles
No, you just buy it and they just send it to you. They have it all exploded. I also have behind me. I can hold on one second, I'll get it. I have the chips. They have now all the chips. These are the Apple A four to the eighth or 10. Of course, you cannot see the cameras. No way, nice, I'm focused on this.

0:37:20 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's cool, Look at that. And a nice little display. And so that's kind of cool. Well, these are awfully expensive site. Here's a four S 139 bucks. Did they have Liam, take it apart, I wonder? This is really cool.

0:37:36 - Stephen Robles
They do have. Occasionally. They have original iPhones and they actually have some iPods which, for whatever reason, I just bought an iPod video on eBay two days ago, just because I just wanted it. Exploded one or a normal one, Supposedly a working one. So we will find out two days when it arrives whether or not it actually they're lovely objects.

0:37:57 - Andy Ihnakto
I mean, they're things like I had to buy. I one of the dumbest things I bought chronically is as an actual like Google Nexus Q streaming their first.

0:38:11 - Leo Laporte
Oh my God, that did that ever ship.

0:38:15 - Andy Ihnakto
No, as a matter of fact, everybody who preordered one like it was they who, if their preorder was accepted, at some point Google said you know what? We're refunding your money and when you receive it, you can keep it. We just want to forget this ever happened. And I can get these like, if you're patient, like in the box, for about $30. Wow.

And it's just an interesting object and when you, when you, when you plug it in, there's like a little Ellie, there's like a ring of LEDs that light up and yeah, this is, this is. This is why, like I can't, I can't get into collecting like old Apple twos and like old Max, because at some point it's like, wow, those are really really big and I've got not a whole lot of room and leaky capacitors and traces that die, and then you have to figure out why they're not working, whereas when you buy like a really cool iPod shuffle and it's just, you put this in a line with all the other little iPods and someone is saying that thing that is not, clearly not an iPod. Oh yes, the thing that's the size of a stick of dentine gum. Oh yes, that was back before Bluetooth streaming was a thing. Back before the Apple Watch was a thing. Apple had to contend with fitness people by giving them the tiniest, tiniest iPod that could ever exist, something, one that could be fitted nasally if so desired.

0:39:29 - Stephen Robles
And I could see I'm trying to decide what to keep and I still have my original iPod touch box with the the John Lennon on the front. This is one of my and I still have. It still turns on the iPod touch and everything. But you eventually have to choose. What do I keep after years and what you know? What do I take up so much room?

0:39:46 - Leo Laporte
So I could see why the Andy. They killed this because there's fingerprints all over the. It's kind of not such a good look to be honest.

0:39:53 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, I mean I had to kind of wipe mine off for a little bit. I use it. I actually use it as it's actually doing service for me. It actually I'll give this back to.

0:40:04 - Leo Laporte
Jason.

0:40:04 - Speaker 5
Howell, and he can use it for a headphone stand. Like this is his, I didn't know he had one I stand.

0:40:10 - Leo Laporte
Jason, did you buy this or did Google sent? Google might have sent this to him as like, before they realized they weren't going to sell them.

0:40:17 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, it's also for New Englanders. It reminds us of candlepin bowling.

0:40:20 - Leo Laporte
So no matter where we roam it does, it looks like a candle.

0:40:23 - Andy Ihnakto
Proper, proper bowling, where you play the wood, where the, where it lays, you get three tries.

0:40:30 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, candlepin, I remember that, and the Hilo jackpot ends every Saturday morning bowling Wow. All right, let's take a break. We've got Stephen. Are you going to the Apple event?

0:40:42 - Stephen Robles
No, no, I'll be tuning in from Florida. Okay, hurricane, that's what I'll be doing.

0:40:46 - Leo Laporte
You and the hurricane. We'll be watching. That's it, andy. You're going to be in New England, I'm going to be in New England, so we're going to be watching what we can get together maybe go to a diner and cover the Apple event together.

0:40:57 - Andy Ihnakto
If nothing else, I'll come over and bring you some. Bring you some ice lemonade, lemonade, Adele's lemonade would be very nice.

0:41:03 - Leo Laporte
Adele's lemonade yeah, I would like Adele's lemonade and if you would, some Eclipse coffee milk and we'll be vegem very happy.

0:41:10 - Stephen Robles
Well, last question about the, the event specifically. You know, with the rise of threads and mastodon, this is kind of the first big Apple event where threads is a thing and X is over here. Where are people going to be talking about live? As it happens, because it feels like threads is still not great for that live interaction. As it happens.

0:41:29 - Leo Laporte
So I've been looking for the invitation right, Found plenty of them on Twitter. Went to threads not one image of the invitation, not even one mention of it. So threads? I don't think. So. Went to blue sky Nope, I think it's going to have to stay at X because, for whatever reason, Jason, did you post your invitation anywhere?

0:41:53 - Jason Snell
I haven't. No, and I don't know where I would put it at this point. To Steven's point Like, yeah, where would you put it. It's everywhere too. I just sometimes I think all the breathless like oh, apple did an invitation for an event thing, it's not it's just.

0:42:08 - Leo Laporte
I'm not looking at threads. I don't see even a mention of an Apple event. It's like I posted it.

0:42:16 - Stephen Robles
I posted it, but during the event, like at WWDC this past June, I tried to run back. Then it was Twitter and Mastodon side by side and Mastodon just couldn't handle it. I tried to upload pictures quickly, but it seems like X is still the only one that is made for that.

0:42:31 - Leo Laporte
Here's from Nila Patel reckless Joanna Stern. Oh you know. So Nila got the RSVP right. Joanna has cut off the bottom, so we don't know. She got invited, I think, right, but why would she? She cut off the bottom. She didn't want anybody to know what invitation she got. So those are the two and you said you posted to. Oh, there's Carolina, carolina, by the way. Milanese not only is going to Steve Jobs Theater, she gets invited. I don't know how. She's also going to the surface event two weeks later in New York City. She got invited to that too.

0:43:03 - Jason Snell
Please note invitations are not transfer on the analyst list.

0:43:07 - Leo Laporte
Oh, she's an analyst. I guess podcasters don't count. Marquez Brownlee Join us in person. This is a subtle, little, subtle little way of saying who you are in the world when you put the bottom part on join us in person or see it online. Hmm, hmm. So there are a few people. I guess I didn't go deep enough. They had moved on by the time I checked threads. This is threads.

0:43:34 - Stephen Robles
Which again I think it speaks to. The algorithm, like threads, is not good at surfacing that stuff as it's happening. We're even shortly after I know Nila Patel was talking about during that first Republican debate. He went on threads and really saw nothing related to that event as it was happening and so again it seems like for live events, I mean threads got to change that algorithm Jason.

0:43:54 - Leo Laporte
Jason decided at the last minute. Just now you posted on threads Apple's doing an event.

0:44:00 - Jason Snell
Now you know, there you go, leo. Yeah, thank you.

0:44:02 - Leo Laporte
Thank you, just for me, jason posted that.

0:44:06 - Andy Ihnakto
I guess it depends on your. You have to use your experience in this industry to think for yourself of how big your audience is and how many of them are January 6th truthers and how many of them are interested in the new iPhone If you're trying to reach the truthers.

0:44:19 - Leo Laporte
I think X is the place. I think so.

0:44:21 - Andy Ihnakto
X marks the spot as they say, very warm embrace there.

0:44:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it is, we are. We spent a lot of time on other shows talking about this. That must not so much on Macrick Weekly, but we are kind of bereft. We don't have the Twitter anymore. We don't have that place everyone can go. We're just kind of still hanging on just a little bit.

0:44:43 - Stephen Robles
I still find the most engagement there. I mean just from my own insight and I had, you know, a good amount of followers come over to threads, but again, it's just not really for that. It was exciting for a couple of weeks and then everyone just kind of was like got bored with it. I think the algorithm wasn't surfacing when people wanted to see fast enough and either they went back to X or just nothing. And so but I still find engagement there on X Interesting.

0:45:10 - Leo Laporte
So Stevens in Florida, andy is in Rhode Island. I'm in Rhode Island, but we know where you'll be. Jason Stone, cupertino, california, september 12th. Those are the assassination coordinates. If you're following along at home, will you be taking the jet or probably just driving that you?

0:45:27 - Andy Ihnakto
could probably say way my bike, whatever the famous six colors jet and these six colors livery.

0:45:35 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's a pretty jet, oh, that's so pretty. You can't miss it when you see it. You know, down there at a San Jose airport and you see that there, man, you know gotta embrace the branding. Yeah, yeah.

0:45:46 - Andy Ihnakto
The slight attendance and their signature jeans and black mock turtle necks.

0:45:51 - Leo Laporte
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0:48:37 - Stephen Robles
Yes, everybody, we're all gonna upgrade.

0:48:39 - Leo Laporte
You're gonna get the Max Pro, max Super Duper, $1,200 dynamic island window versus.

0:48:47 - Stephen Robles
I struggle because I've not been Pro Max since. Like the seven plus, I prefer the smaller size phone and I just have angst whenever there's a better camera in the Pro Max. But this year my 14 pro struggled with battery life and so I'm considering the 15 pro Max for that battery if it's a better camera, but I don't prefer it. I like the smaller size, so we'll see.

0:49:09 - Leo Laporte
And the mini's gone right, they're just.

0:49:11 - Jason Snell
Yeah, it's gone. I'm a mini user and I'm on a two year cycle. So I have to actually choose what I'm gonna do for my own purchase phone, and it's probably gonna be the pro. I don't like the big phone at all, so it would probably be the pro, though depending on what the specs are with that camera and the screen, and if I can get by with the fewer cameras but still have the dynamic island, maybe I would go to the cheaper model. And it's also my wife's phone buying cycle right now. She's been holding on so she's gonna get a fresh, new iPhone 15, I think too. So, yeah, it's gonna be an expensive fall again. What else is new? What else is new? Super cycle.

0:49:49 - Stephen Robles
Super cycle.

0:49:50 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, we do it in a assembly line because the phones get handed down. So Lisa and I get, they will get the new phone and we hand down the.

0:49:57 - Jason Snell
actually, it's interesting, nobody wants my mini, though, so now I have to buy two phones. So I knew this would day would come. This day has come.

0:50:04 - Leo Laporte
No one wants my mini, our 20 year old who finally got a finally I'm sorry that's a rude thing to say who is now working at Safeway and finally get a job. He was working at Safeway Good union job and he wanted to buy the iPhone 14 Pro Max, like the day he got the job and Lisa and I said no, no, no, there will be an iPhone 15. So I think he'll be in the market. So maybe the hand me down chain has finally been broken, but I think I'll get the Pro Max. Of course I will. I will, yeah.

0:50:35 - Andy Ihnakto
In gray. That shows how well the system works. It does, it's not, it's like okay. So okay, kid, you can either have, like my hand me down, two year old or three year old iPhone, or I can buy you a brand new 2023 Android phone Like, oh God, no, three phones, no, no, no, I'm not going to buy the old one.

0:50:56 - Stephen Robles
I subverted this by just doing the iPhone upgrade program. So I just tell my kids my phone's going away. You know, I send it back to Apple and then I get the other one. So, yeah, no upgrades.

0:51:06 - Leo Laporte
All right. Well, we just made Apple a few thousand bucks right here, just in this panel. It's amazing how they do that and plus all new type C cables for everyone. I have a drawer full of lightning cables, although that's a smaller drawer than the drawer full, but the double sized drawer full of type C cables. There's a lot of those in the house.

0:51:28 - Stephen Robles
The only time I use that USB-C. The lightning is for fast charging, which we were at podcast movement last week and I did use fast charging then because it is nice yeah it is very nice, but I welcome our USB-C overlords and I'm good to let lightning go.

0:51:44 - Leo Laporte
And, andy, you're going to get the Samsung Galaxy Flip Z Ultra, right?

0:51:50 - Stephen Robles
I don't know, I keep you. I don't know, I keep you.

0:51:52 - Andy Ihnakto
No, I know I will not. Yet my my, my Pixel 6 Pro, is still a long nice. I might be eligible for a new phone, meaning, like my interior, my interior accountant might allow me to buy a new phone, like next year. The year after that, and as usual as always, switching to an iPhone is going to be absolutely in the cards If they do something that is more exciting and more viable to me than whatever the latest Pixel phone is. But for now, I mean, I'm the most important feature. But the two most important features for me on a phone happen to be storage so I can put whatever media I want on this and whatever apps I want and not have to care and camera. And now that Adobe Lightroom mobile is so freaking good, it's like I still think the Pixel, the Pixel's cameras, are at least as good as anything that Apple's doing. But then when you throw in, like on either platform, well, however good the phone is, the phone's camera is the ability to drop it into Lightroom and then 30 seconds later have a tweaked exactly the way you like it and so good that you can then say hey, I think I'll enter that in that phone. The federal competition that I just read about last week and really for me it upended a lot of the thought process of buying a phone. Used to be best camera wins. Now it's like, no, so long as all three Samsung, they're all pretty close.

Apple, I will say Samsung is always out of the running. Because every time that I test out a Samsung phone it's like how many Samsung accounts do I have to sign up for to just use this damn phone? It's like, oh well, you need a Samsung account. You need Samsung account. You're going to get updates? Okay, and then you know the Samsung account. If you're going to use, like, the fitness stuff, okay, no, you need Samsung music and Samsung like okay, what if I just don't ever deal with you ever again? My Google, google's already got its hooks into me, so I don't think I'm losing anything with the pixel. I trust apples are not losing anything by going to Apple. If I, if I, were to get a Samsung out of my life, I think I could proceed forward on a very, very even keel. Yeah, I agree, I wish Apple would make a great, a good folding, a folding phone, though I love the flip.

0:54:07 - Leo Laporte
I bought the Flip 5 and I'm the newest. Flip is really great. I really love it. It's tiny, it's pocketable, it's just really cool. It's cute.

0:54:16 - Andy Ihnakto
I can't afford $1,800 for a phone of any kind. Oh, I know Much less, much less, much less a screen. That it's part of the marketing for that is that it's not just for people who can afford an $1,800 phone, it's for people who can like a year, a year, and two months after they buy it see like a really bad scratch on it or see some sort of wrinkle in the hinge part of it, of the screen, and not really care about it and because, hey, I'll just buy a new one or I'll just get the screen replaced. It's like I'm a five year person when it comes to a phone, ideally that I can sit out for five years if necessary and if I possibly can, because I don't have $1,200 a year to spend on an iPhone subscription. So I try to get as much use out of these things as I can.

0:55:01 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I don't look forward to retiring and having to actually think before I buy it. Yeah you see, it's not going to be fun. I don't want to take that.

0:55:14 - Andy Ihnakto
It's like that joke in police squad where Frank Drebben, like Lizzie Nielsen, gets like fired off the police force. So just think the next time I shoot somebody I could even be arrested for this. Just think the next time I want to buy a camera I might not be able to try every single one.

0:55:30 - Stephen Robles
I'm interested in for 60 days absolutely for free.

0:55:34 - Andy Ihnakto
It's tough, it's tough.

0:55:35 - Leo Laporte
Sunday we had the great Jason Kebler on. He, of course, was editor in chief of motherboard advice for a long time. Vice has had some financial difficulties. He and three of his other superstar reporters have formed their own little company called 404 Media at 404mediaco. But Jason we'd actually talked to him some years ago has always been a right to repair. I don't know if advocates right because he's a reporter, but he's always covered that right to repair story from 404 mediaco. We're winning in quotes. Apple formally endorses the right to repair legislation. After spending millions fighting it, he got access to a letter to lobbyists. Actually it was a letter to Senator Eggman, if that's his real name, no, her name is Susan.

Kukku Kachu, kukku Kachu. Susan Eggman, the sponsor of the bill. Apple writes in support of SB244 and urges members of the California legislature to pass the bill as currently drafted. We support SB244, apple goes on to say, because it includes requirements to protect individual users. Safety and security this was one of Apple's concerns was well, if you repair yourself, what happens to the locked enclave and so forth, as well as product manufacturers, intellectual property will continue to support the bill so long as it continues to provide protections for customers and innovators. I guess Apple finally found. Is it that Apple finally found a bill they could support, or they finally saw the writing on the wall and said, all right, can it be both?

0:57:14 - Jason Snell
I feel like that's what's going on here. I wonder if, behind the scenes, there was some talk of like people were either hesitant to vote on it, who are very pro business, and were like, I'm not going to be, apple's not going to like this, and so I don't like it, and then the authors of the bill are like, let's reassure you that Apple's okay with it, or if somebody was trying to amend it to do something that Apple didn't like, and so Apple decided to have this moment to swoop in and say, no, no, this is the law we like, do this, this is the one we like. I think they know that this sort of thing is coming. In fact, they've built a whole infrastructure with their repair programs to support it. I think the last thing they want is legislation that breaks some part of the process they've already said in place. So something probably prompted this letter to be put in the record right, like a threat from somewhere or somebody who needed to be reassured that Apple was okay with it as it was written.

0:58:06 - Leo Laporte
Well, they may have seen the writing on the wall. It passed in the Senate, the California Senate 38 to nothing, so, but the assembly still has to vote. With Apple's support it probably will pass and, as a number of people have pointed out, if, as says, california goes, so goes the nation. Even though there was a bill in New York that was kind of stripped of most of its you know guts last year, this is going to be it. This means of ultimately a total victory for right to repair.

0:58:37 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, and also the writing is on the wall, internationally, in the EU and elsewhere. So if they were going to have to keep iPhone parts in stock and available for people to repair for the EU anyway it's it behooves them to say, well, okay, if we're going to have to maintain that new part of our business, that part of our organization keeping track and inventorying and maintaining stockpiles of repair parts for third parties we may as well. It kind of changes the calculus and the California law isn't that draconian, it's basically. It basically just says that Apple, for their part like for iPhones they would they would have to maintain a supply of spare parts for iPhones available to third parties for three years after they stop making them. I think three years, and that's not that hard. They've also seen how well this, these programs have worked for other companies working through iFixit, that they don't even necessarily have to deal with these third parties directly.

I think that it was.

It was, as you say, it was a combination of them having lots and lots of conversations to make sure that they feel as though they've been heard by legislators, seeing that this is not something that they can fight, so they can at least maintain a presence, a seat at the table and dictate excuse me and being consulted about how this works, and also realizing that the world is not going to end because we are going to make screens and other kind of sensors available. It's a. The question is always going to be, though how are they going to control access to software that if you still have to code each one of these components before they get installed and before they'll be admitted into the secure enclave of the device? That remains to be seen, but that seems to be something that they're going to have to do underneath this California law anyway. But yeah, this is this is they had to. They had to do this at some point. It was it's the USBC of legislation, and they were kind of foolish to fight it so hard for so long as they did.

1:00:28 - Leo Laporte
The law says manufacturers will quote have to make available, on fair and reasonable terms to product owners, service and repair facilities and service dealers the means, as described to affect the diagnosis, maintenance or repair of the product. They have to make the same diagnostics tools and parts available to the public as they make available to authorized repair professionals. Apple says that some of the things that we really wanted. You know, I think Apple did see the writing on the wall but at the same time they could save a little face by saying we got the assurances we wanted that the bill would not threaten consumer safety and data security by requiring manufacturers allow repair providers to disable device security features, many of which have been requested by law enforcement agencies and required by law to thwart theft. That they also will require that repair providers disclose the use of non-genuine or used parts. I think that's good. I think it's a win all around as finally something good yeah.

1:01:37 - Andy Ihnakto
And, of course, how many times have we joked about, like Apple, always couching like their bad behavior in terms of we've listened to you, the consumer, and you're welcome. We congratulations, consumers. We just won a great victory on your behalf. We thought we were not going to support this law until your security and privacy were being protected and, thanks to us, your friends, your two wacky hippies in the garage with $2.3 trillion in valuation, decided to make this all happen. And also, when you read it out, realize that this is also the kind of weasel words that any large company likes to see If they can comply with this law in a way that they think will work for them.

And if the consumers and EFF and other organizations say, well, actually, no, you're not complying with this law at all, then congratulations. Now we're off to two, three, four years of litigation that will lead to a settlement as opposed to no. Here is a line that you fail to follow. We felt as though our solution was very, very reasonable and very, very practical and did extend the right to repair to people. You disagree, but we will simply argue this out in court until an agency says look, we're sick of fighting this, give us a couple of hundred thousand dollars and some free iPads for schools, and let's just go home.

1:02:57 - Leo Laporte
A nice victory, by the way, for Kyle Wiens and ifixitcom. They've really been advocates. They created the right to repair website. Also to CalPURG, the public interest research group. They've been very strongly in favor of the right to repair and they're in the middle in the green Raincoat is Senator Eggman. Cuckoo, cuckoo. Thank you, senator. I just wanted to say cuckoo, cuckoo again. Thank you, senator Eggman, for sponsoring that. I think this is good for everybody. It's good for everybody.

1:03:29 - Andy Ihnakto
Ifixit is one of those rare companies that proves that you can have a profitable for-profit business that nonetheless, is working in the public interest. It's not, there's no BS behind that that they are working for rights that will direct business to their site, but also to everybody else, and give everybody a fair shake than they're getting right now. So that's one place where, okay, capitalism, we'll give you another five years at least. Yeah.

1:03:54 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, five years. That's it, though, on the outside, then red banner revolution's going right up.

1:04:01 - Andy Ihnakto
I got in the closet. It's still on the pole. It's still on the pole, I'm telling you.

1:04:07 - Leo Laporte
Apple we've mentioned this before, but I think it's official is buying TSMC's entire supply of three nanometer chips for the year. Every one of them says digit times. We knew that they'd booked most of them. Now Apple's projected to take 100% of their capacity and that's partly because Intel delays and Intel's wafer needs are part of the problem. I guess Intel's lack of orders. They're really not there yet. So Apple said well, you know, okay, we'll take that 10%. Intel doesn't want, we'll take them all. How many more can you give us?

1:04:45 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah.

1:04:46 - Leo Laporte
So that's also good.

1:04:47 - Andy Ihnakto
They've been investing heavily in this technology too. It's not as though it's their technology, but it's not as though they're scooping up every ticket to the concert so that no one can see it unless it's on their terms. So, yeah, this is cool. This is what Apple does so very, very well. It's sensing what their need is going to be and making sure that they will be able to fulfill that need. That's why Apple's won the few companies that weren't affected as hard by part shortages in the past few years as almost every other company was, because they had already secured procurement for every component they're going to need for the next five years.

1:05:22 - Stephen Robles
Which I do wonder Mark German said there's going to be an October event as well this year if we could see an M3 or a three nanometer process, maybe in an iMac which is still running the M1. You know that thing's been around for a couple of years now, so it's possible we see it a couple of months.

1:05:38 - Leo Laporte
I would love to see that there was somebody put this article in. Thank you from 512pixelsnet. The case for and against Apple shipping a larger iMac. We've talked about this before. The current 20, what is it? 21 inch or 24? 24 inch, 24 inch. It's so small that it's really for consumers, not for prosumers, and I kind of miss the larger one. And there have been strong rumors that Apple is going to do 30 inch plus, probably next year, not this year, you think, maybe. What do you think they'll announce, stephen, in October? It's certainly new iPads, but do you think they'll have an M3 something?

1:06:19 - Stephen Robles
Well, I wonder if it'll be iPads. They'll probably be the base model iPad, the 11th generation, because German also said next year they're going to revamp the pro models. So I think maybe base model iPad. I would love to see an iPad mini with maybe promotion.

That's a wish list item, but I would just love a mini with promotion. But I do think the iMac is one of the longest in the tooth and if we do see, maybe I don't know if they'll update the MacBook Pro. We just have the M2 Pro and M2 Macs over the summer with the MacBook Pro, so maybe it's just an iPad, imac and possibly some accessories, maybe updated AirPods then, although it'd be strange to wait for that if USB-C is coming in September. So I think mostly iMac and then a base model iPad with something else which I'm not sure, for October.

1:07:07 - Leo Laporte
I think Dan Moran has an article in Macworld. Has Apple's oldest Mac overstate its welcome, Jason. After 25 years and numerous reinventions, Apple needs to figure out where the iMac stands in the desktop lineup. I kind of talked about this last week, yeah.

1:07:24 - Jason Snell
I mean it's in the thinking of the 25th anniversary of the iMac, sort of where does it go now? And what, dan, and what Stephen Hackett you know right in their pieces is very much like. You know, desktops aren't what they were, but they're still important to have. The question is, are they so important to have that you have two different iMac models or not? Mark German has said that they're working, but it's not clearly not a high priority. I wonder if it's going to be like that 15-inch MacBook Air where they will sort of do one eventually but it's not going to be on the same cycle as the revision of the 24-inch model to the M3, which we probably will see this fall. I wonder when?

the way it's gone. The base model chip is what we see first. So if you see an M3, then that's a thing that they could put in an iPad Air. They could put it in an iPad Pro, but they're also. It could go in a Mac Mini, but they've got the Pro chip now, so maybe not there. What's another product they have that only has the base model chip? It's the MacBook Air. Could it be that the MacBook Air would get there it's revision this fall as well, because they probably won't have an M3 Pro right this fall. The only Macs that they would be releasing this fall would be the ones that only come in the base model. So that's the 24. And I love the 24-inch iMac to have a Pro chip option too. But again, if it's coming this fall, I just don't see it.

1:08:49 - Stephen Robles
I always thought I would get an iMac as a family computer. I have three kids and it always in my mind was going to be the ideal machine. But even to this point I have not had a reason to get it. My kids have iPads and actually that suffices. Now that Logic Pro X is on the iPad, that was the one thing I would have gotten a Mac for. Even my oldest son, who is making music, is just using Logic Pro X on his iPad. So as a family computer device. I don't know if that age has maybe passed, but I do think there is a place, especially like doctor's offices or administrative types use cases, where I do see iMacs all the time. Typically they're older iMacs because they just stay around forever, but I do think eventually, if it dies or new offices open up, there's still some use cases, like point of sale systems maybe although that's gone iPad too. But for me as myself, I did not see a personal need for an iMac anymore, which is kind of sad. I love that computer.

1:09:41 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, I mean, it's so personable and we were talking earlier about wanting to have really really cool colors. The iMac is the most colorific line that Apple makes. It really is quite joyful All the range of bright, wonderful colors that they have. But it's hard to see a need specifically that the iMac fills really, really well, because at that doctor's office they've probably got some sort of record system that is probably based on Windows and plus they probably want to. Instead of spending whatever Apple taxes for this really cool, pretty looking iMac, they'd much rather just get whatever Dell screen they've already gotten in the store room and whatever like little mini Windows 11 box can actually run.

It Did it for anybody who's buying lots of multiples of these devices. If you're buying multiples of them, then you're not buying. The person is going to be using them day in and day out is not making the purchasing decision. It's the person who's doing the budgets and whoever, whoever shows up at the office or at their schoolroom and finds this thing on their desk congratulations, you are now a Windows user or you're now a user of whatever that is.

But one of the things that I'm still kind of on the fence about is I wonder if Apple's going to try to phase out the M1 on desktops, if they're going to at some point say that the difference between the M1 and the M2 is such that we want to make sure that now that we've put an M1 in every single portable Mac and desktop Mac, now's the time to the next big upgrades, for all those are going to be making sure that the least sophisticated Apple Silicon is going to be M2 across the board. Does anybody think that that's something that Apple would like to do, or is? The M1 is still plenty powerful as it is and they can always increase the speed of that chip and keep the same architecture, but it's. There's something about saying oh, by the way, we've upgraded the new MacBook Air same price and we've upgraded everybody to the M2 chip.

1:11:38 - Jason Snell
It's the Cook doctrine, as they call it, right, which is does. Do they benefit from having that moment of old product on the price list? That's cheap and profitable. And the M1 Air does have to go away at some point, right, but it's the. It's the old body. It's presumably a lot cheaper to make than the M2 Air body is. So, yeah, I I don't know.

I feel like the M1 will be around for a little while, longer than longer than old Macs who have been replaced have ever been before, if that makes any sense, right, just that it has been so long. But it's still so good and it lets them sell that MacBook Air at such a low price that you know it's worth. It's worth doing. I wonder if the M2 will go away and the M1 will stay when they do the M3 Air. I really do wonder, because they've they've done stuff like that in the past where they've sort of kept the interim or they kept the old model around just to hit a price point, and then they keep updating the interim model. But I would be happy if the M1s went away. The question is, can they make the M2s cheap enough that they can hit their price points right? Yeah.

1:12:50 - Andy Ihnakto
I mean the big, the only big roadblock of the M1. I mean it's fast enough, but it's a bummer that you're always gonna be stuck with just two displays. It's like because if you're trying to get five or ten years out of a, out of a, out of a Mac mini or out of a MacBook, there's gonna be at least a period or a project where you're gonna say, oh god, I really wish I knew I want two displays, but I don't want one of the displays to be the built-in MacBook display. And you know you can't do that because M1 is stuck with that, or it's also stuck with the high-speed lanes, for M1 and M2 have that limitation right.

1:13:25 - Jason Snell
They both have that limitation which I hope that M3 finally addresses, because it's surprising how many people buy a laptop and expect to connect two monitors to it. I think Apple I think Apple initially just decided oh, that's an Intel feature, nobody actually uses it, we don't need to build it into the, into the M1, and over the last couple of years I think maybe they've realized that there are more people agitating for that than they accounted for we can give you an additional display for your MacBook.

1:13:51 - Andy Ihnakto
It's called an iPad Pro come on in.

1:13:53 - Leo Laporte
We'll set you up there is. The rumor is that they'll do the. This would make sense, schedule wise, that they might do an M3, 13 inch MacBook Pro. That's not really a pro, but it's called the pro, right, that's that.

1:14:11 - Andy Ihnakto
They've done that every year ahead of the bigger MacBook Pros and the big and the big deal is that the thermals on this hot in the silicon are so terrific that, like on other silicon, it would have been well, no, of course we, unless we want to make this thing, that's so. That's three times as thick as the original power book just to keep all the cooling fans going. It's like we can keep those. We can keep the fans dead for most of most operations, even with an M3, even in the current chassis design, or at least with very, very little modification. There's a lot of overhead in those systems.

1:14:42 - Stephen Robles
I'd say, if they do an M MacBook Pro 13 inch with an M3 and it still has the touch bar, I don't know.

1:14:48 - Leo Laporte
I know the last, the last they didn't update the design for that. Maybe they, maybe now they'll update the design. So the advice I saw again and again I bought the 13 and then I bought a 14 because I'm an idiot. But it was not to buy the 13 when it was, when it was the M2 or M1.

1:15:07 - Jason Snell
It only exists to hit a price point for organizations that don't want to buy something that isn't labeled Pro. So they're like get us the cheapest MacBook Pro. And Apple doesn't feel they can say get the 14, that's really really good, but it's too grand.

And instead they've got this old computer that is not any more capable of really. It's got active cooling but, like it, really is not any better than the MacBook Air, but it's called a MacBook Pro and there are absolutely organizations that will not buy a MacBook Air, they will buy a MacBook Pro. We only buy professional laptops for our users and and Apple can't get that 14 inch model down to 1299 right, it's not even close. So instead this kind of joke of a pro laptop just kicks on. And yeah, I don't think anybody should buy it honestly, because you should, if you're gonna buy that, buy the MacBook Air. It's just. It's a better, you know designed computer, more modern in so many different ways you want the touch bar.

1:16:10 - Stephen Robles
Yeah, this 13 inch MacBook Pro doesn't even have MagSafe charging. I would say the MacBook Air you can have to us you two USB C plus it's charging on MagSafe. This MacBook Pro, it's two USB C ports, that's it, no MagSafe charging so do you think? That's what they'll do in October.

1:16:26 - Leo Laporte
That that's the MacBook that they'll announce in October.

1:16:28 - Jason Snell
I wonder if there's a revision coming that is a, specifically if they, if they decided that they can't keep making this, what they might do is, instead of build, instead of just eliminating it and keeping the 14 and the 16 in the line. I wonder if there's like a decontented 13 inch MacBook Pro. That is, like you know, not very interesting, but they have to do something to keep the cost at that price point yeah yeah, exactly right.

It's sort of like a MacBook Air Pro almost that it's just enough that they can call it a pro. Maybe the touch bar is out of there, maybe there are some more ports, but it's really not. I have a hard time imagining it being like good, but I think at some point they might need to just do a revision in order to hit a price point, which is, again, how exciting is that to be? Like we're making this computer to be 1299 or whatever. It is right, because we have to sell something. So it's either that or they just keep running the touch bar model out there again and again, which I mean. Maybe they got extra touch bars.

1:17:26 - Stephen Robles
They're trying to say I say bring back it. Bring back the 12 inch MacBook.

1:17:30 - Jason Snell
That's what I want a show of your MacBook with an M3 the corporate users won't buy that one, even though, so no, no, no it's yeah there was actually that.

1:17:38 - Andy Ihnakto
Actually that reminds me. I mean I would. I would love like a 12, an iPad sized MacBook, even if it was with a magic keyboard case, because there's still a. There's still a use case for me where I just the iPad is not going to. It's almost something I can use for several days on a trip. I just have to plan not to do the things that it can't do for me, and so this one there was a. There's a rumor going around that there's gonna be a new redesigned magic keyboard case that is more laptop like of some kind. I think it's just a. This goes with the rumors, of rumors.

1:18:12 - Leo Laporte
This goes with Mark German's assertion the next year will be a revamped iPad pro with an M3 and a OLED screen. And the new magic board.

1:18:22 - Andy Ihnakto
That sounds like what you want, actually. Yeah, and when you may, if you were to mate that up with with a, with better multi-screen support, with with that feature that everybody tried for about 10 minutes but then like didn't use it all, so you know a better version of stage manager that seems to have taken in a lot of a lot of info from people. I mean there's a. I mean there's there's a. I think there's a sense. It's a six colors article about not use, about not. The iPad is still not a laptop.

Yeah, there's there's, there's still, like. I love it, it is my go-to device for, like short trips, but there's still. When you hit that wall, you hit it so freaking hard it's like no, there's, absolutely no. Not only is there no way to do it, but you feel as though you are in a really badly done like Dungeons Dragons game where the Dungeon Master has basically set up this world to make sure you get as angry and frustrated and feel as powerless as possible, saying there, you could, you would lose nothing if you just let me do this one thing. No, you can't do that. Why? Because that would impede the user experience are you talking about?

1:19:42 - Leo Laporte
you're talking about Jason's article giving up the iPad, only travel dream yeah, yeah, and what Andy's saying there?

1:19:49 - Jason Snell
I mean, yeah, we've always said when you hit the wall, it's brutal with the iPad because there's no flexibility. That's the thing. I have some very unique things that I need for when I travel because I'm a podcaster. But the fact is and I heard from people are like, well, you know, other people don't do what you do, and it's like guys, read the read. The next paragraph, which is the problem, is flexibility. If it does what you need, you're good, right, it's great, it's. It's so flexible for you that you can believe it. But, like, if you don't want to do anything that Apple hasn't foreseen, you hit the wall. And that's the difference between the iPad and the Mac. If, if Apple hasn't foreseen it on the Mac, guess what a third-party app, utility, something, has foreseen it and you can do it yourself, or you can install a utility and you can make it happen. But on the iPad, because of the way it's structured, if Apple hasn't foreseen it, you just can't do it. And so I I just decided I tried very hard to work around all of those issues for a long time, and only when I'm visiting my mom or I'm traveling to other places, like, only bring my iPad and I finally realized you know what Apple Silicon MacBook Air. It's so good, it's less than three pounds in my bag and I can stop fighting and I and that's so that's what I decided to do is I just stop fighting.

If I'm going somewhere, I need to record a podcast. I just bring the iPad and the MacBook Air and I use the MacBook Air sometimes. I went to Colorado a few weeks ago and I had to do a podcast when I was there and I pulled the laptop out, recorded one podcast and then put it right back away, didn't touch it the rest of the trip. But like I couldn't have done that with the iPad it would have been jumping through hoops and I just decided like, if Apple's not gonna do it, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna push it, I'm not, I'm done pushing the envelope for now I'm. I'm just because Apple's pace of iPad innovation is very limited and I think that they they, you know they want it to be it's growing, but it's growing really slowly and, and the fact is, as we've talked about here many times, apple Silicon Macs are really good.

1:21:52 - Leo Laporte
So maybe I should just you talking about the specialty stuff you use, like the audio hijackers or stream deck. You know that you carry with you, but I think, if we were to generalize it, it's really that you cannot install arbitrary drivers on the iPad like you can on a computer and background utilities.

1:22:11 - Jason Snell
Right, that cat that can capture your keyboard at any point, like there's so many useful Mac utilities that slightly modify the interface, or I?

1:22:19 - Leo Laporte
would call them all drivers, and I understand the reason that doesn't allow drive third-party drivers on that, because that is also a notorious source of bugs, security issues and problems for users. And so Apple, probably in their head, is saying the same thing you just did, jason, which is well. If you need that, take a MacBook Air, that's why we make it. And and if you want kind of something that's simple, secure. You know, installing drivers is the number one hassle on Windows computers, you know. It's just it's a source of all sorts of trouble and I can see why they wouldn't want to do that go ahead.

1:22:58 - Stephen Robles
It's tough for me because, like we went to the podcast movement last week, you know, I sit here and have an existential crisis every time I'm packing because I have an iPad mini, ipad pro, macbook which of these devices do I take? And for me, I actually edit multiple podcasts a week on my iPad mini. No, because it's it's so light I can sit out on the patio and I edit.

I edit ferrite and it is just a me I can edit faster with the Apple pencil and iPad than any other, and I have Logic Pro. I have it all. But when I was at this conference I had to record a podcast. I did it with Micah Sargent and it was this moment where we were using like all this B&H photo equipment and we ended up using this zoom track recorder that had an SD card and in that moment, if I didn't have my MacBook Pro 14 inch and I didn't bring any dongles, like I would be up a creek and so even just for that, like a 14 inch MacBook Pro, I'll probably never run into a situation where I'll be stuck as opposed to the iPad, like if I just had my iPad Pro, even with a dongle, I don't know if I could have recorded. I could record in ferrite, but I don't know about Jason's experience. Like I don't. I don't trust multi-track recording into ferrite, not because of ferrite limitations, but just it's with the iPad and like.

I can't see.

1:24:12 - Leo Laporte
You know I can't monitor enough of what's happening in real time to really just trust you in the sweet spot though, by the way, this would be my sweet spot too is a MacBook Pro 14 inch and a iPad mini. That's a really nice combination. That's not the mint much heavier.

1:24:28 - Andy Ihnakto
Mini is the is the hidden superstar? Yes, higher Apple lineup yes, it is, it is. I really honestly think that, as someone who already has an iPad Pro that he spent a lot of money on. He didn't get the. I didn't get the cheap one. I put. I had money set aside so that I could get like as much storage as I wanted, the M1, everything and the pencil.

I still every time, every time that I get out my old iPad the one that is basically made out of animal skins and twigs at this point, comparative what's? It was available. Now I this. That's gonna be my next Apple purchase, maybe even before, like my new Mac mini, because it is replaced. It puts such, a, such a role in my life.

But that but, but Steven, like you, you the we were talking about. You know why you not be able to install drivers and that that is a big deal, but like for me, like the, just the simplicity of I have a file I want to move, I want, I want to move the file from here to there. Like, okay, oh, that's easy. Just, you just use clouds, but I'm in the middle of nowhere, but I have everything I need. I just needed to move it from this place to this place can't do it? Okay, well, how about? How about, if I have, like, a JPEG file that was created by one app and I wanted to be, I wanted to be able to be used by another app, that's great. Just put up the sharing sheet, yeah, but for some reason, this graphic editor that works with JPEGs is not showing up in the sharing sheet. Well, and there must be a really good reason why you shouldn't be able to do that like and you can.

I compare that to this is I don't, I don't.

I think at this point in 2023, it's not case of, like, android being better than iOS or iOS being better than Android.

There are things that will attract some people and not track the others. To compare to, like, putting music files on this device I just simply drag files onto it or download that into whatever folder I want. I have an open file system and then I've got three different music players for three different kind of uses and for each one of them, I just simply say scan through this folder or scan through the entire device for anything that's a flak file and within like 10 seconds, every single flak file that I pointed it to is now part of that music library. It is the. It is the way the things should work, and so it's I. I understand that there's a dogmatic difference at Apple between the iPad line and the macOS line, that I think it really is like we are going to make it a pain in the butt for a lot of things, but the payoff is going to be it's going to be way more reliable than any Mac we've ever made ever again.

1:26:55 - Leo Laporte
I just wish there are a couple little things that come back.

That third-party driver thing. I mean, I think that you know there's UI issues as well, but but the third-party driver is. You know, a lot of times when I look at Windows, I say if you could just get rid of win32, you wouldn't have nearly the security issues. And Microsoft's answer is but we can't, because so many people need it. And I think, in a way, this is what Apple has done. They said, well, what if we made a new device that is absolutely simple and robust and reliable? And but you're gonna have to give up some things like the ability to install these third-party well, third-party apps from anywhere. For one thing, you got to go through the app store and especially third-party low-level drivers.

1:27:37 - Stephen Robles
Those are not, those are problematic it also feels just like a limitation of iPad a wiss. Now, clearly Apple sees it as pro.

We have Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro 10 on iPad right so, but the way they install the plug-ins from those though so supposedly coming soon, but no, you won't point out trees they're gonna make sure that everything that gets installed in that iPad comes right from Apple but my point is like when I record on my Mac with audio hijack, I'm not afraid to click to another window and that recording is still gonna happen, like it's still going, whereas if I'm recording on my iPad, even in a pro app or even in ferrite, I'm not sure what's gonna happen if I swipe up to go home or what happens if I like tab over to a different app, like, yes, it should still be recording.

But I just don't trust it because I don't see iPad OS as being able to handle that. I think a lot of times just I think from experience people have experienced this where you're recording or you're doing something, you go to another app and all of a sudden a process stopped in the background and you just can't have that. When you're doing something like podcasting, you want to make sure it's recording and on my Mac with audio hijack running, I can look at my menu bar and see the little peak meter always going and I just know like I trust that it's happening and until iPad offers that kind of, I guess security and never will.

1:28:56 - Leo Laporte
And that's the whole point. It's not that they can't they've got the processor, they got the RAM, they got the storage.

1:29:02 - Andy Ihnakto
It's not that they can't, it's they won't yeah and I think that this makes sense, at least in my mind, that there's this division in these product lines and we, we offer something for both people so I keep coming back to something I read about, about the creation of Disney World and Disneyland, where, and someone who worked with Walt Disney in building these parks said that Walt wanted to make sure that if you came to one of his parks you would have a fantastic time, and he was so. You thought he was so adamant that you have a fantastic time that he wanted to make you, make it impossible for you to have a bad time, even if you were trying to have a bad time, and, and that's what I think about, I think that's about that. That's, that's that philosophy set on two clicks on the knob on Mac OS and it's set to like eight out of ten on iPad OS. And I and this is where I don't think that Apple is BSing like anybody I think that really is their philosophy.

I mean, where I've there, they're, once or twice every couple of months, I wind up resetting the audio drivers on my Mac and on the one hand, I can think of well, because you see, because the Mac is a lot more powerful and a lot more open, if the if suddenly I lose all audio, I can just simply go to the terminal, enter a pseudo command and simply restart that audio driver and have things back. The flip side of that is, yeah, but if you're using an iPad, that audio would never have screwed up in the first place, because nothing can screw up at that low level and and there's, and there's a reason, steven, you worry about background recording, suspending when you change screens, because Apple doesn't want.

1:30:37 - Leo Laporte
Initially because of the iPhone and battery. They don't want stuff running in the background. But also they don't want stuff running in the background because that's where your troubles begin. Right, you know what? And and so, if you, I think this makes perfect sense to me. And yet I look at what Mark German is is describing for the iPad Pro 2024. The code names are J7, 17, 18, 20 and 21. They'll be m3. They'll have OLED displays, which is awesome, the probably of the best displays out there, until we get OLEDs on the MacBooks 11 and 13 inches, which is a little bit bigger than 12.9, I guess. Revamp, magic keyboard and, as you said, andy, the new accessory, according to German, makes the iPad Pro look even more like a laptop than the current setup and has a larger track pad, and that's, that's actually a fix, because the magic keyboards track pad is not great. So you know Apple is moving it more towards something that you could say, well, I could do.

1:31:38 - Jason Snell
That's my laptop, except I firmly believe they don't want to, that they really and they using the chip the same chip as the Mac, right, that kind of calls calls it into question because, like the truth is, my MacBook Air and my MacBook, my iPad Pro, use the same chip and therefore, but they are very different in terms of what their functionality is, and you know, that's fine, that's a choice that they can make, but it is something that you, you think of as a user, like, well, wait a second. I, what about? Like, why can't I? Why aren't these things the same and they, but they aren't?

That laptop report is interesting the idea that I wonder if it's gonna be a heavier because weight is the concern that the cantilever design is there, because you, they're trying to push the center of gravity forward so it doesn't tip over backward. So you know what? Either there's a kickstand, which I'm really against because I think kickstands are, economically, are terrible and you can't put them in your lap, or they're gonna make a heavier keyboard case, which I actually think is probably the right way to do it. There are some other companies that made like clip-in keyboard cases for the iPad and that the key is just to have more weight in it and if you're Apple, apple gets to design the iPad and the accessory together, right? Any other accessory maker just has to make do with whatever Apple provides them. But Apple can design them together.

And I wonder if there's a keyboard trackpad case in the future that is heavier. It's gonna make it more like a laptop, but you could do stuff like have a supplemental battery in there. That would not only right like battery flow. Power can flow both directions. So what if they're?

1:33:10 - Stephen Robles
imagine the marketing, if they say and then you snap this iPad into this thing and it's got like a laptop things and it's 24-hour battery life or something like that 24 hours to watch movies and they can also charge your AirPods right yeah, like all that amazing technology, though, and like, again, like I love iPads because, again, I had a podcast all the time on it but again, like use case, even like editing a website. You know I manage a lot of Squarespace websites and on the Mac, in Safari, everything works great. And even though Apple has said Safari on the iPad is supposedly desktop class and is like parody with the Mac, like it's it's just not like. If I try to manage a Squarespace website on my iPad, safari like it looks like it should do everything the same, but just click-wise functionality like mouse activity, it's just, it's just not the same. And so, on a beautiful screen, like I watch stuff on my iPad Pro and it looks amazing, like I love watching stuff on it, but I want to be able to do more on it.

1:34:06 - Leo Laporte
Yeah let's take a little break and then we come back. I do want to talk about podcast movement and some final thoughts, but first a word from Zuck Duck. You know that feeling when you finally get the thing you've been searching for, right your whole life. After spending hours researching and reading thousands of reviews, you finally get the perfect. What is it? Sparkly disco pants, sure that's it. Or designer dog hoodies or whatever it's. Just it's the thing, it's the right thing. Five stars arrives tomorrow. That's just a nice feeling. How come we can do that with sparkly disco pants? We can't do that with our physician.

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I saw this a tweet with Micah Sargent and Stephen Robles at the podcast movement I love I had. I just got the new zoom f2 recorder. It's only a two mic setup but it's a 32-bit recorder. I'm really excited about using it in the field. It's cool that you were able to get all the latest equipment to try out.

That's really neat and it was it's great and and it was how were you on the show floor a podcast movement out there in Denver?

1:37:55 - Stephen Robles
at, you know, for a podcast conference. There's not a lot of places to record a podcast. Ironically, I mean, even I mean most.

1:38:02 - Leo Laporte
I mean, look, they don't have a podcast studio for people to do their shows.

1:38:07 - Stephen Robles
They there was one brand they had like a couple pods but it was book solids. You know potions of thousands of people. So I was, I was scrambling, and me and Micah I think we were just gonna like find a closet to record in. But then the B&H photo people.

They had a whole table set up and I was like you know, I have enough tools to try and take out the background noise. Let's just, let's try it, and and it works. So we just sat there on the expo show floor, the people walking, where it was very loud.

1:38:34 - Leo Laporte
I know because Lisa did a panel there with memberful who does our club twit and there, by the way, they're great and she was excited about doing it because we really wanted to give memberful a big plug and tell all the podcasters is a great way to do a club and nobody could hear anything. They were saying it was so loud. And Lisa came back she was horse because it was so loud yeah so what's the latest?

podcast news is is there a future for this nascent business? Nascent, it's 20 years old, it can drink now it's.

1:39:08 - Stephen Robles
You know it's an interesting environment because I listen all the techie podcasts, like you all the twit network, the relayfm network, the incomparable and all that and when you go to one of these trade shows, it's all these shows like I don't typically listen to, but it's these big names. You know, wondery is there, disney is there, spotify is there, and they're all talking about these very large shows.

Will Farrell and Meghan Markle, and yeah yeah, and you see these, these sessions that talk about monetization or they talk about, you know, dynamic ad insertion and you know, I feel like the the gap between kind of the independent podcaster who can still, like you know, get sponsors on their own and things like that, versus these massive names, you know celebrities really doing podcasts on these networks like Wondery and Spotify I feel like that gap is widening a little bit. And the rise of video is such a huge push which obviously you personally have been doing it for like forever, but for many podcasts.

1:40:10 - Leo Laporte
I always crack up when I when I go to these things because yeah, we, yeah, we did that in 2007. Oh yeah, I was downloading Macbook weekly video on my iPod video, that's why I got it, so I could relive that experience, but you know.

1:40:24 - Stephen Robles
So that's interesting, but but I do have some. I don't know if it's concerned, but I do wonder over the next few years, where it comes to like ad agencies and where sponsors go to actually bookspots on podcasts, is it going to flow where you basically have to be doing dynamic ad insertion? And tracking and all of that yes, and.

I remember the first time actually experienced it. I won't name the podcast, but I press play on a podcast I've listened to for many years and the first ad that played was in the Tampa Bay area and it was such a shock to me because it was the first time I experienced a targeted ad in a podcast. You know, every other time before it was something it was baked in. You know I knew the sponsors. Like every time you hear you know a sponsor on a podcast it feels familiar and this was like oh, this is the future, because someone can actually target my local area and actually like they do that, by the way, via IP address.

1:41:20 - Leo Laporte
They don't necessarily have spies in your hyvinem.

1:41:24 - Stephen Robles
But what was interesting was I downloaded the episode before I flew to podcast movement and I was listening to it on the plane and it was there where I heard. You know the Tampa Bay area, right.

1:41:33 - Jason Snell
That's where you downloaded it, that's where I downloaded it.

1:41:35 - Stephen Robles
So it was a very visceral like oh right, I was tracked for this ad, and so I do wonder if that's how you're just going to have to do it, especially if you're growing a new show and you want to get those sponsors, are you going to have to play that game long term? And so that's kind of the feeling I walked away with and again, I don't know if it's concern or if it's just kind of like nostalgia, where it you know, the podcasting landscape is not going to be like it was five, 10 years from now, I'm not sure. So I don't know how.

1:42:01 - Leo Laporte
Lisa Feltor always do that thing. She exactly echoed those exact same sentiments. She said we're in deep trouble. She says all ad tech all the time, it's all tracking, and you know we're big fans of RSS, which really can't track you. It knows your IP address, so direct ad insertion does work. We use advertised cast, which is a Libsyn company. In fact, some people you know in in not in this show, but some of our shows you will hear ads in the language of your country If you're listening outside the U? S or for your local car dealership or whatever.

And just so you just to reassure you, tracking is not exactly right. They're using IP address, IP geolocation, to figure out where you are, which is not, I mean, not the end of the world. There is, though, a push towards much more draconian tracking with pixels and so forth. We push against that. It's very hard to, because advertisers are getting that kind of service from Google and Spotify and and others. And you know, when I see Apple announced, as they did at podcast movement, more tracking information for podcasters, you'll know more. I know that that's really not for podcasters, that they're collecting that information for advertisers in the long run.

1:43:14 - Stephen Robles
So and what's. What's tough is, you know, the value proposition for a podcast ad in the past was the tweet the Mac break audience is a known audience and so it's a tech company textual advertising based on the context.

1:43:28 - Leo Laporte
The ad is running in and we still prefer to do that way. We also prefer to do host read ads, not inserts. Right, that's how we would prefer to do it and I think it and, frankly, for the advertisers that have been with us for more than a decade, they know it works. But I think more and more agencies who are not the advertisers why we like doing direct business? Because the agencies it's too much trouble for them. They're going to buy 20 different podcast networks. They don't want to bother having a personal relationship with them. So it's great.

1:44:00 - Stephen Robles
And it's, and that's difficult and again, for an advertiser I don't like it.

But for an advertiser I could say I want to reach one million of this age demographic in this location, of this gender. Yeah, like, then they'll just buy the ad space rather than buying the podcast and that is the shift, that kind of stinks. Honestly, you know, I think it was. It was valuable for a sponsor to say, if it was Squarespace, that they're going to buy an ad on the twit network and they know it's going to go to a tech centric audience who is probably building websites themselves or helping others. And it just makes sense. And that can be a relationship, hopefully long term, where now it'll just be like, well, like every other ad, like, just give me this demographic, this location, this interest, and that's what I'm just going to buy ads across this ad agency that has so many shows and those, dynamically, will just be inserted and it's. It's unfortunate, I mean, for a long time, podcasts are like, like you all, I'm sure I, I think that's where it's going and I, I don't know, I don't feel great about it.

1:44:56 - Leo Laporte
How about you, jason? You didn't go to podcast movement. I don't think I'll. I'll go again. I stopped going a while ago and I'm wondering Lisa will go again, but are do you worry about this kind of stuff?

1:45:09 - Jason Snell
I do. I'm podcasting as a much larger part of my job than I anticipated when I started doing.

1:45:16 - Leo Laporte
The same thing has happened by the way, to blogs and there is some some hope. I mean, blogs initially were very much personal, like podcasts, and if you had ads it was. You know, it was personal kind of ad sales. Then the big ones came along. But there, what's good news is here you are, jason, doing six colors, and it's still viable. Yeah. It's just not what I.

1:45:37 - Jason Snell
I thought it would be ad driven. I thought I'd make the bulk of my living from blog ads and in fact I make the bulk of my living from podcast ads and from memberships, which takes us back to something. Yeah, and that in. It's funny because in COVID time and right before, a lot of us were like we got to get on the membership train here because who knows what the ad market will do. And the ad market did fine for a while. But it has changed.

And I will say, being in a niche, being a niche publisher I have, I have advertised advertisers who want to reach my audience. Still, Exactly Because I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to build this enormous reach, and that's the challenges. You're either in a volume game or you're in a niche game. And while some of this tech, ad tech stuff is going to push down and try to force niche publishers to use that ad tech, there are also still advertisers who value a very specific audience and will pay for it, and that's why I'm skeptical that it's going to go all the way to.

Everything is self serve. You know, ad network on the fly, kind of stuff. I think that there's still a place in if you're playing the niche content game for other stuff. But if you're playing the broad content game where you're just some more impressions, volume, that's a different game, that's volume and that's going to be a lot harder. But like with relay I mean relay has seen a slowdown, for sure, but they have built a lot of direct relationships that have allowed them to extend and do better than some other, you know some other kinds of podcasts.

1:47:17 - Leo Laporte
Credit to Mike Hurley who has really maintained those relationships with advertisers and so forth, and that's what we do here too, and yeah, exactly.

I think at some point we're going to have a hybrid model where we're going to be. You know, the club is very important to us. It's about 7,000 members strong now, which is still only 1% of the total audience, but it's something that keeps us going and that, plus advertising, I think we can survive at the level we're at. We may not. At some point we may have to shrink. We, you know, we might have. Ironically, stephen might have to stop doing video. That's the most expensive thing we do and most people don't watch the video anyway. So here's. You mentioned Squarespace. I was really pleased. Squarespace celebrated their 20th anniversary a couple of months ago. Timeline to Squarespace dot com and in the we're in the timeline March 2009,.

Squarespace lands first podcast advertisement. Anthony Casalena makes a big gamble, paying nearly $20,000 for a Squarespace ad to appear on the podcast. This week in tech was more than 20,000. Cause he bought like a seven wait months contract, but that's okay. A post purchase survey and this is the part I like proves the risk to be worth it, revealing that a third of the company's new subscribers heard of that, heard of it through the plug. So that's good, that's good. I. This was very. We didn't expect this. They didn't. They didn't mention it and we were very pleased to see it. They stopped buying ads on on our shows several years ago, when they remember this. They bought a Superbowl ad and we said you know how much did that cost? For 30 seconds? You could have bought five years of us for that. So it happens. It always happens.

1:48:58 - Stephen Robles
Well, I do think you know direct membership is going to be a huge part for independent and podcast networks.

But I also wonder how much subscription fatigue is also going to play a part for those people, because I support multiple podcasts directly and some networks, but I also feel like I don't know how sustainable that is, as more podcasts are going to be asking for direct support and networks like relay, like twit, can offer you know, here pay this monthly and you get the benefit of ad free and bonus content across all these shows.

But if you're truly an independent show, like you have one podcast and you're not a part of a network, I think it's going to be a tough sell to ask people to pay you $5 a month for a membership, for ad free or bonus content, as opposed to paying a network $5 and get multiple shows. So I think it's a tug of war not a tug of war, but something that's going to have to be figured out. Maybe if it's like creator networks that individuals can join to kind of be a part of, and so their listeners might get more value for a certain amount of subscription per month, or I don't know, I don't know if it's going to, subscription fatigue is going to hurt them.

1:50:08 - Leo Laporte
Let's not talk about that, okay, sorry.

1:50:13 - Jason Snell
You know, people say that.

1:50:14 - Leo Laporte
On the other hand, when you go, to the grocery store, you continue to buy cottage cheese every week. I mean there, I think at some point people are going to say, well, yeah, because I know what you mean, though, because I subscribed to for the shows. I have to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and New York times and Bloomberg and all sorts of stuff, and it's it's thousands of dollars a year. It does add up, but that's you know. If I think it's good, it's the way it is with streaming too. You want to consume content on the TV, content Increasingly. It's going to be because you're going to pay a subscription for it, right?

1:50:46 - Stephen Robles
Well, people are stopping paying for all those streaming services too, which I think you know, as Disney is struggling with right now, like, what networks do we drop because they're not profitable enough? And so I do think subscription fatigue is real and that's why, you know, I don't know if there'll be another shift to something else, but, yeah, I don't know what the future is, and I guess that's why it's unsure, and I love podcasting. You know that's what's a struggle, because it the industry was was small enough or niche enough where you could have your audiences and have us show. Oh, I love the community Audience.

1:51:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

1:51:14 - Stephen Robles
And the community is great and those people are still there and so just hopefully the future of monetization can still, you know, handle or support that kind of relationship between the smaller shows and the audiences.

1:51:26 - Leo Laporte
I honestly think that's what that's the thing advertisers are and agencies are missing is you're buying not a show, you're buying a community. You're buying access to a community, and that's something we're really podcasters are really good at is building community at least the successful ones at building community, and that has. That has value, I think, to an advertiser. When we told people about Squarespace, that that carried weight because we, you know we were talking about something I don't know. If you're not a member of the club, you can see why we keep plugging it. Visit twittv slash club it's. We keep the price low. We give you a lot of value because we understand about this subscription fee seven bucks a month or a you know. A lot of people said well, can we buy a year? I was reluctant at first because I didn't know how long we'd be doing the club, but now, okay, yeah, you could buy a year. You can also get family plans and corporate plans. You get all the shows ad free, ad tech free as well. You also get the access to the discord, which is really a great place to hang. I honestly that was an unexpected benefit of the club is the is the community in the discord is fantastic, plus shows we don't put out in public cause you know there's no ad support for them, but we know the club supports them and so that makes a big difference for us. With hands on Macadosh Micah does that and hands on windows with Paul Therade, we're not doing these to to say, oh see, you should join the club if you want to get our content. We don't really want to put anything behind a paywall, but it's also fair because club members in effect are paying for it. These are shows that don't have advertisers yet, and when a show gets big enough that we can sell ads, like this weekend space, we do move them out of the club into the public. We don't want to put stuff behind a paywall. That's never been in our intention. But we also make sure that people who give us their seven bucks a month gets something of value. Lots of events we put. Our community manager, aunt Pruitt, does such a great job. He just finished that that photo walk in Petaluma last weekend.

Stacy's book club is coming up. We do. We're working on an untitled so far AI show with Jason Howland, jeff Jarvis. That's every Thursday afternoon. You can participate in that. Some good if you're sci-fi fans. The club is is heaven. Daniel Suarez, Hugh Howie, join us with a fireside chat in about a week, and then John Scalzi in a next month or October. That's going to be incredible.

These are all things we do for the club, where Nate Richie will come back and do and ask me anything to him, or 16th. He is, of course, now the creator liaison at YouTube, but a long time host on this show. So lots of stuff, lots of benefits. We try to make it worth your seven bucks a month, I think it is. If you're not yet in the club, please go to twittv slash club twit and join us. We would love to have you and, as you know, this discussion shows that's more and more how podcasts, networks like ours, will survive. Both Steven and Jason have have memberships and and I think that's really important I don't know what you do to support yourself, andy, but I wish you the best.

1:54:39 - Andy Ihnakto
Well, I get. I get mostly paid by by, by PBS and by various clients and various podcasts, including this lovely podcast, yeah actually some of your club's money goes to this man right here. And I was planning when I relaunched an Otgocom to also have like memberships. But now I'm starting to think I'm really depressed at this conversation. I can't have people for five bucks a month for the things I write. Who am I to say that I'm worth half of half of Netflix?

1:55:05 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's hard to go lower than seven bucks a month because they're, you know, memberful, takes its its cut and ends up being more like five bucks a month, and I don't know how you can go much lower than that and still offer value and so forth. So seven seems to me this low as you can go and it's pretty good, I think.

1:55:22 - Andy Ihnakto
But anyway, the fun thing is, I'm writing. I'm writing like five to 10,000. Words a week anyway. Well, there you go, I would pay for an AMI and a co. Stay up an extra 45 minutes and yeah things for other people.

1:55:34 - Leo Laporte
Can you send us some sideburns once in a while and something like that? Just a little extras like that? Here's a whisker.

1:55:40 - Andy Ihnakto
You, you, you, you. Beautiful genius, you've just given me the idea for the for the $15 tier you get, you, get, you, get, you, get, you, get, you get mutton chop updates exclusive to the double diamond subscribers. Support.

1:55:56 - Leo Laporte
Apple in testimony before the Australian competition authority. They're investigating the way Apple preloads iPhones with their own apps and, of course, the app store. As everybody else is, apple giving evidence before the ACC said they loaded iPhones with their own apps and not those of competitors because quote, when you take it out of the box, we want it to work. But furthermore, just to prove Apple's goodwill, they actually artificially suppress their own apps and search rankings just to avoid criticisms of self-preferencing.

1:56:37 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, this is. This is this was pretty interesting because they were. They haven't been charged with anything, they haven't been found a follower of anything. They were just hauled before this tribunal to basically on a finding that they that they might be violating antitrust with their app store. And this was it was very, very interesting. The way that this vice president was was couching at a. I didn't know that they were sandbagging their own search results for their own apps. This is so. This was something that in this guy's testimony that was interesting and he was also saying he was also said I don't know where the quote is, but he was saying that actually, you know, our stuff ain't that great. I mean, people prefer, like, google maps to ours and people prefer Spotify to Apple music. Like, if you know, we, we, we wish we were abusing our market privilege with Apple music. My God, I mean geez, we're just treading water here dude.

1:57:29 - Leo Laporte
Apple hired a former US justice department and FTC trial lawyer, kyle Landier, as VP of products and regulatory law, knowing that, you know, maybe his experience will be helpful here. He said when we actually look at the evidence in the marketplace, when we look at the relative popularity and downloads of different apps, we see in almost every category consumers are picking an alternative, even when the Apple version is preinstalled. His example was Spotify. Spotify is has three to one users over Apple music in Australia.

1:58:03 - Andy Ihnakto
So there you go If there's something wrong with the way Apple's treating its own apps. Quote you wouldn't expect, in category after category, that the Apple service was number three or number fourth or fifth or sixth or seventh most popular service.

1:58:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

1:58:16 - Andy Ihnakto
Isn't that?

1:58:16 - Leo Laporte
interesting. Yeah, that's making a taking a lemon and making lemonade, I guess.

1:58:23 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, by basically, by basically saying we stink.

1:58:26 - Leo Laporte
We put it on there, but it's so bad P you.

1:58:29 - Andy Ihnakto
I mean, I hope, I hope no one back home was listening to this, cause I'm under oath, cause I got to tell you All right, we're going to take a little break and then, gentlemen, if you'd prepare your picks of the week, we will do that.

1:58:44 - Leo Laporte
Next, I do want to give you my pick of the week Our sponsor, milo. This thing is so great. When Google pop, pop Pekasa, I was like, oh man, and then they really kind of killed it. I so many people I've talked to used Pekasa to organize their photos. They had all these, you know, folders and collections and stuff, and then it, then it disappeared.

So when, when, when, I decided I don't want to pay for Adobe's creative cloud, but what am I going to use for my digital asset management? I've been using Lightroom, what am I going to keep track of all my photos with, and I couldn't find anything appropriate, looked a lot of different solutions. I found the solution and here's the good news it's not just for photos, it's for documents too. It's called Milio M Y L I O, milio photos. It's a smart and powerful system that helps you keep all of your digital assets organized and secure and private. There isn't there's no cloud component to this. Like you know, adobe really wants you to use the Adobe cloud or Apple use iCloud or, if you want, you can be completely offline. What I do actually is I have Milio back up my photos to all my devices and you could choose thumbnails, optimized or originals. So smaller devices like my iPhone, I use thumbnails, but then if you want the full photo, just you just click on it and you can edit the full photo, download it and edit it and then I have it all backing up to a Synology NAS, my own cloud, so I've got all of my photos and I don't have to worry about privacy. Plus, and here's a huge advantage. You know you may say, well, yeah, but I like how Google photos or Apple photos picks faces and places. No, milio photos has AI built in and does it on device and does a really good job. I now have over 200,000 photos in my library.

Milio photos. I've heard of people with literally with millions. No problem at all. It automatically. I have to tell it okay, that's Lisa, that's Michael, that's Andy, and after I tell it a few, it then goes through all my photos. It does a brilliant job of finding everybody's faces, so they're all tagged. It also does smart tagging with all kinds of variables. You know monuments and oceans and seashores, and it's incredible. Smart tags make all your photos searchable. You don't have to spend time tagging, organizing the folders. You don't have to. Everything is organized automatically for specific objects, activities, animals, plants you can say blue I want to see all my photos with a lot of blue Smart tags is brilliant and because it works with your existing filing system Mac, ios, android, windows you don't have to spend time importing.

I told it keep a track of my flicker, get all the flicker photos. Here was a huge one. I knew I had stuff on my Google photos that I didn't have locally. I did a Google takeout. It automatically imported and I've done this manually before and it's a pain. This did it automatically import all of my Google photos and then it has an incredible deduplicator so I was able to remove those duplicates and just find the stuff that was only on Google photos. It's incredible.

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I actually added my documents folder too and imports PDFs. It does OCR, so it's even tagging the documents. It can read Microsoft Word documents. It can read a whole host of document formats and on the images it does OCR. On the PDFs it does OCR Optical Character Recognition. So I have the contents and I can organize it via contents with smart tagging.

Now you may say well, how can it be free? They do have a plus plan, of course, but everything I just described you can do in the free version. Myliocom, try it for free. I found it and it's incredible and it's completely. This is maybe more important to me than others, but it's completely cross platform. So Android yep, ios yep, windows, mac yep. It's really incredible. Myliocom, we thank them for their support. There's an example of a company that wants to reach our community. They know that you know you especially are going to have some interest in this, and so they're not. They didn't have to do all that. Well, I want 24 year old men in Fresno. They don't care about that. They want Mac break weekly listeners, myliocom. Thank you, mylio. We appreciate your support for what we do here at Mac break weekly.

All right, so let us talk about our picks of the week, and, jason, you've got one I want to lead off with, because it's really important.

2:03:56 - Jason Snell
Right. Yeah, we already mentioned the guys at relay FM in other ways Stephen Hackett and Mike Hurley in this episode, so I thought we might as well just jump right into it. September is child cancer awareness month and every year the guys at relay FM, they they campaign to get donations to raise money for St Jude research hospital, which treats children with cancer for free and also funds a lot of research into childhood cancer, trying to find cures for diseases. Stephen's oldest son is a cancer survivor and was treated at St Jude and they have raised a couple of million bucks in the last few years for St Jude. They've got a goal here that they're going to blow through and then they'll set a new goal, but they have raised a lot of money for St Jude. It's a great cause and if you would like to join, you can get some stickers, you can get a screen saver written by James Thompson.

There's all sorts of things that are in the package there, but it's just. It's going to be happening for the next month. They do a telethon at one point for 12 hours. That's happening. I'm going to actually fly to Memphis, tennessee, and be on that telethon. Lots of stuff going on. Relayfm, slash, st Jude or, if you prefer, stjudeorg slash relay. Either one will get you there, but please consider donating to St Jude and doing it under the banner of relay FM is a great time to do it too.

That's really awesome.

2:05:27 - Leo Laporte
You know that was the inspiration for our New Year's Eve benefit, where we raised money for UNICEF. But boy it's really. I realized how hard it is to raise money. I think we raised 75,000, something like that over a 24 hour period. It's hard work, and to raise $2.2 million over the years is very impressive for a very good cause, so good. I'm glad we could give them a plug. I was, yeah, in fact. It reminds me we should probably be doing something like that ourselves. Relay FM for St Jude. Just go to what's the easiest URL relayfm slash.

St Jude, mr Andy and Ico, your pick of the week.

2:06:18 - Andy Ihnakto
I read comics, I have the course, the comic psychology app. Such a shameful admission, but okay, no, no, no.

2:06:25 - Leo Laporte
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm Andy and I'm a comic book reader. I know, I know.

2:06:29 - Andy Ihnakto
It depends on whether you have a positive reaction to the crack Cohen of Corpse Revival protocols. If you're hip with it and you like it, then we don't have anything to talk about. If you think it's a travesty, sit down, let's have it. Let's have a kinesh, we'll talk about it, but not. But not.

Everything that I read is on comic psychology, like stuff you buy every week on Marvel, marvel and DC and the major publishers. A lot of times I back a Kickstarter and the. They give you the reward in the form of a digital comic. Or you go to all kinds of places like archiveorg where like public domain comics like the original, like plastic man comics, police comics, originals, the spirit or, in many cases, independent comics from the 80s that I used to enjoy, that just simply disappeared. But someone has scanned them in and collected them and turned them into standard CBR, dot, cbz or PDF files. So my my pick this week is an app called panels, which is a beautiful comic book reader for iOS, for both the iPhone and for the iPad. It does the two most, actually the three things that needs to do Well, it does extremely well.

The reading experience is really really good. It's because you can't there's, even if it's a PDF, like you can't have like open something in iBooks and have the same sort of experience you'll have. A comic book is read in a special way that is not going to be read, not be read like any other kind of book. So you need to be able to go from panel to panel. Sometimes the artwork is really detailed and nice and you want to kind of zoom in and stuff like that. So the reading experience is exceptional. The organization experience is also exceptional. It's very, very easy to to group all of these individual comic book files into hey, here's a series of action girls. Action girls Sarah Dyer is really amazing independent comic from from the 1980s and keep keep track of the things that you've read, things that you're in the middle of. You have widgets on the, on the lock screen, to get right back into the thing that you're reading.

But the third part of it is really and we just we were just talking about this earlier the difficulty or non-difficulty of getting these files on the device to begin with, and this if there's any way that human humanity or God has and has created that you can put a comic book file on the iPad, panels will support it. So, for instance, the both of my additional comics I just simply plug it in, plug it into my desktop via USB and then it's simply drag the files into there. It just simply they populate. You can watch them populating on the screen as you go and then you can simply organize them there. It'll work with the files app, so any any app that's compatible with files like Dropbox, google Drive, a, an attached storage device, that will work just fine.

Or the, a method that was very, very popular at the very, very beginning of life with iPad, which is okay. Apple has made things so hard. We're going to include code that just basically turns this app, your iPad, into a web server. So you can just hear. It will just give you a web address on the local network that if you open up open this up in a web, in a web browser on your desktop then you can use that to transfer files for one place to another.

I've never been in a position yeah, I've never been in a position where I was not able to copy something over and it's very and it's also it's not a stickler for format. Uh there, there have been times where, like I, just it's not even a comic book, it's just that there is a web comic that I like so much that I just sort of right click and save to a folder. And if I just simply zip that folder and copy it into into panels, it will basically let me read those strips day by day scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Really, really well done.

And there are two different ways to buy it. You can buy it on subscription, by which means you get the latest version as they come out. There's a right now they're on version number two. Version three is imminent. Or you can buy it outright for 20 bucks. But the thing is, I bought version two like a couple of years ago. Now I'm going to have to buy version three for 20 bucks your choice. But yeah, it really is exceptional. And the, the, the.

There is enough time to get into the second part of this, which would be there are places on archiveorg where, again, there are places where you can get, uh, either public domain or abandoned comics, so to speak and some of these are the most entertaining things that are have never been done and when it's, when it's a when it's a comic like action girl, where it's um, I'm I'm sure that this wasn't done with, it wasn't put on archiveorg, necessarily with the permission of Sarah Dyer.

However, it's not in print. It hasn't been in print in 20 or 30 years. If she were to produce her own digital version of it, I would immediately buy it and then also give her an extra 50 bucks in her tip jar for how good this comic was. But this is a way for those abandoned comics, out of print comics, to still have a life, to still have an audience, to still have somebody on a podcast saying hey, there's this comic called action girl, that's all all, all, uh, women doing all the art, women doing all the writing, women as the editor in chief and the publisher and the colorist, and they're just interesting points of view and interesting stories with interesting characters.

2:11:29 - Leo Laporte
There's a lot of so panels, a lot of CBRCBZ files on internetorg. Uh, uh, I was just wondering if they had Calvin and Hobbs. I bought the hardcover, you know, complete Calvin and Hobbs and uh, but I don't have a CBR version. But I could get it from internet. Or don't do it unless you bought it, because then yeah, that's it.

2:11:48 - Andy Ihnakto
That's. Yeah, I mean that again. That's. That's not the long conversation that we can't have, like we don't have time for, but yeah, there, there are times where, like there are sometimes where there's something that's never been made digital. However, I have bought it. I purchased it as individual issues. Yeah, then I purchased it the second time as, like, a hardcover collection, and I don't feel so bad if I happen across it. Oh, by the way, someone also scanned in that hardcover so that I could have it on my. I don't necessarily feel as though I have to spend $40 to buy, to buy a digital version on comic solitude, since I've already bought it twice. For God's sake, did you?

2:12:19 - Leo Laporte
read the profile of Bill Waterston in the American conservative Fascinating. He's like water. Recently he's got a book coming out which is not a Calvin and Hobbes book, but he talks about why he retired and it sounds like he was literally killing himself making this comic strip. He said at one point I lost my lead time and I was the night before it was due writing these comic strips and he said my entire life was consumed by it and he just he had to stop. This really worth reading. It's a weird place to find a profile of Bill Waterston, yeah, but it's a fascinating story and I imagine we're gonna see more of him because he is promoting this New book. So so maybe that's why it happened, why Bill Waterston vanished.

2:13:13 - Andy Ihnakto
He left, he left behind something magnificent, so he did. He did it almost killed him making it.

2:13:18 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it almost kills me that I had to read it in a publication that has RFK Junior on its front cover, but that's another story for another day. It is worth reading the article and I, you know, I'm still a huge Calvin and Hobbes fan. So if you're curious what happened to Bill Waterston, very interesting a piece on him, and I think that would be a good reason for me to get this Panels, just so I can have the complete Calvin and Hobbes on my iPad mini. Now I'm happy, mr Stephen Robles, we don't normally make our our visitors Do all the hard heavy lifting of a pic. It looks like you got one. I.

2:14:03 - Stephen Robles
Do it. I'm cheating a little bit, I'm doing like kind of a trifecta of pics, but it's one workflow and you know, every day someone's born who hasn't seen the Flintstones, and so I want to share a couple apps. What maybe People know? That's true, and so the first app is Downey, which is an incredible app by Charlie Monroe.

2:14:22 - Leo Laporte
Must have yeah must have.

2:14:24 - Stephen Robles
You can download any internet video app. You know I don't want to say specific websites, because sometimes you give control, but anyway that's how I get all the audio for those YouTube videos.

2:14:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I'm just saying right.

2:14:34 - Stephen Robles
Well, I don't want to say it, but yeah, so you said it. So, yeah, you can download, but also, like if there's a news website that you need to pull a video from, for whatever, you're using that video for Downey. It even has an in-app web browser where you could actually like log into a website and actually Download videos behind a login. So it's pretty amazing. So, downey is amazing, but I use that in conjunction with an app called transloader that you run on your iPhone or iPad, and then there's a utility that runs on your Mac and what you can do is, from your iPhone, share a link. It's right in the share sheet and I can send a link to transloader, which Transports it to transloader on my Mac, and transloader on my Mac can then send that link to Downey.

So, as you can see, the workflow might be, you're looking at a video on your phone Maybe you're even in an app that plays video. I hit the share button on my iPhone, I hit transloader and it sends that link to my Mac, which automatically sends it to Downey and Downey Automatically downloads it and saves that file wherever I choose. And so, if you choose, say, your desktop, which syncs with iCloud drive, I could literally have an internet video available to me on my iPhone in my files app and iCloud drive in just a few seconds.

2:15:46 - Leo Laporte
How'd you hook it up to Downey. Is that built-in a transloader? Do you have to write it's built in, it's built in.

2:15:52 - Stephen Robles
It's built in. There's no scripting involved. It's very easy to connect the two, and so I do all of that. And then one final piece of the trifecta If you want to go this far, I actually use an app called hazel oh which is utility on the Mac which hazel, is amazing and can automatically move files based on rules and folders, and so what I have it do is any mp4 video that hits my desktop or downloads folder gets moved to a folder on my Plex server oh my god.

As you can see, the workflow might be. I'm watching a video on my phone. I tap transloader, sends it to transloader on my Mac, which sends it to Downey. Downey downloads that video file, saves it to my Mac, then hazel takes that video file and moves it over to a folder in my Plex server and now it could stream it on my Plex account in just a few seconds. And that's the workflow from front to back.

2:16:43 - Leo Laporte
So that's so cool. So you're looking at something on your iPhone, press a button and now it's on your Plex server and you can watch it on the big screen sometime at your leisure.

2:16:51 - Stephen Robles
Exactly, and I do that. You know, again, I have kids and they have varying levels of abilities and restrictions on their devices, and so maybe there's a youtube video I want them to see, but they don't have access to just browse youtube at whim, and so I will Use transloader and Downey and now they can stream it in Plex on their iPad Just a few seconds after I saw it on my phone, and it's not like they need any more access, they're just watching it from our Plex server Running in my closet. So that's the workflow very nice, very nice.

2:17:21 - Leo Laporte
You know what this is. This is how our picture should be from now on not just a simple app, but a work share, a workflow. I think that's really good.

2:17:30 - Stephen Robles
Yeah, yeah, thank you.

2:17:32 - Andy Ihnakto
No, that's that's amazing, particularly because, like you're, you're actioning this from a phone that has limited and expensive bandwidth. You're basically commanding hey, let's go. You, the computer at home that's doing nothing, that's committed, that's connected to gigabit internet, you do the downloading of this, then you do the transcoding of this and then, yeah, that's. That is really. I kind of want to do this, just to do it.

2:17:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I don't. I don't think I'd be using it a lot, but I just. I just think it's cool, you can do it yeah.

2:18:00 - Stephen Robles
It's cool and I have her just running on a Mac mini sitting in a closet. You know, transloader and Downey are just always open and you know, sometimes One of my sons plays rocket league, which is like a video game or whatever, and there's very long tournaments that are like three hours long and like I don't want to tie up my mac studio doing it, I don't want to sit around waiting for anything, so I'll just send the link to this three hour rocket league video, so with transloader, to Downey and then it's going to download and move it as it does, and then a couple minutes later, you know it's three hour video in Plex and I didn't really have to do much.

2:18:30 - Leo Laporte
And the reason, by the way, you have to do that, besides the bandwidth, is the iPhone and the iPad don't allow you to install stuff like Downey right. So this is an exact, perfect example of a workaround. The share sheet is really Maybe the most. The single most powerful workaround on iOS is the share I will.

2:18:49 - Stephen Robles
I'll head off a bunch of comments you might get too, because they're supposedly are shortcuts that allow you to do things like download a youtube video, but I find that they break soon after they are useful. I wonder you know, obviously youtube does not want you like doing this, and so a lot of those shortcuts. I find they just don't work for very long and they break, and so Downey has been like just a rock solid tool for me.

2:19:10 - Andy Ihnakto
I absolutely have double underscore support for that. It's Downey is bulletproof, and, and anytime you've got any content that you want to keep, for whatever reason, it's worth pasting the url into the box, even like when people post art on instagram that I just want to save a copy of, it'll just simply pop that out there. The list of the list of urls, like domains that it can basically find media from, and and and remove it from, are amazing, and if you can't find it automatically, it has a guided Extraction mode where it's okay. Well, here's, here's a firefox compatible like web browser window. Just do what you got to do. And in the sidebar is like here is like a list of all of the All of the mp4 files that are being accessed and streamed. I think that's it. Then click it and then oh great, it's 1.8 gigabytes. I think that's the movie that I wanted to get.

2:19:59 - Stephen Robles
Yes, yeah, and you can force mp4 format in Downey so you know it's going to download a compatible video format. And Downey works with shortcuts and so I actually have. If I ever need to download a podcast episode from some rss, from shows that I Manage, and actually have a shortcut where I'd little menu comes up, I click the show I'm talking about and that shortcut sends the latest episode mp3 link to Downey and Downey downloads that audio file as well.

2:20:23 - Andy Ihnakto
It's just really the number of times where I've, like, there's been like two and a half hours of senate testimony or whatever, or some sort of a presentation that lasts an hour and a half. It's like I just need a transcript of this. The easiest thing is just why don't I just have Downey grab this audio, then send the audio to an app that will simply do do a speech to text, and then 10 minutes later I've got the audio, instead of having to listen to. I'm reminded of a funny story about protein folding. It seems as though an amino acid walked. Oh, god.

2:20:55 - Leo Laporte
Actually, this is a good reason that everyone should have a max studio on their desk running all the time. That's right.

2:21:03 - Stephen Robles
Now, if you get to a Mac mini, a mini, a Mac mini, it's totally fine.

2:21:06 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, m2 Pro, my Mac Studio, was a server in a lot of different respects and it's always running Because I don't shut it off, and so it's always nice to have that. And if it's running on an M2 or an M1, it's not using a lot of horsepower. And and it's a great thing I use air message. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that. Um, air message is a server I can run on my Mac that uh, hooks itself into Apple's messages and then serves it up to my Android devices and other devices. So in fact, it is air message. Now supports on Android can be the sms app on Android, so my Android devices actually have apple messages and sms is my full messaging. What?

2:21:46 - Andy Ihnakto
again, again, the difference between, like, android and iOS. It's like no, we don't support this ourselves. But hey, if you want to come together, if you want to create some sort of a ruby Goldberg system to make it work, third party developers, we're not going to stand in your way.

2:22:00 - Leo Laporte
That seems a little ruby Goldberg, but it works. For morasso it works pretty well.

2:22:04 - Stephen Robles
I don't imagine that's not encrypted, right? I don't imagine air messages you get encryption.

2:22:10 - Leo Laporte
Uh, no, yeah, I mean you. Well, actually you would if you said so. Yeah, I guess you would, because Apple's encrypting it on their end. So, yeah, all it is. All it is is, uh, sitting on the Mac studio where it's unlocked on the Mac studio because I'm reading it and it just it sucks that into the In transit. Is it encrypted? Probably not. No, no, through the air message is probably not, but I don't know. That's a good question. I have a password and it uses your google account as as the login, so you don't have to do it. Doesn't that Translate a translation? Have you used it any do?

2:22:44 - Andy Ihnakto
you use it, I try. I tried it because I don't have a real use for it day to day, but I set it up and tried it. I know you're an android user. I thought, yeah, exactly, and I. It's easier to have like a one less layer, one less thing to go wrong. It did work for the week and week or two that I tried it and was working. Okay, I was just worried about you know what happens when the transport changes a little bit and suddenly I don't know why I'm sending things but not getting replies back, and it's because, oh because, I decided to do something clever.

2:23:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it is. It is an open source project. It's free. Yeah, air message org. Um, so I know it's not doing anything, itself nefarious. My messages aren't going through it, it's server. They're going directly from my mac to the Android device, so I think it's okay.

2:23:33 - Andy Ihnakto
Yeah, I think I mean it's a simple. It's a simple bridge really when you get down to it and it works.

2:23:37 - Leo Laporte
There's no, really. Well, much better than beeper, because you know beeper you have. They actually are running a mac in, yeah, in their, or an iphone in their server room and you have to sign, you have to let beeper get your messages. This way, it just, it just goes Through the internet to my phone. A little robot arm with, it solves the problem, though, if you want to use an android device and you're in an apple ecosystem, really it's because I mean, really it's.

2:24:04 - Andy Ihnakto
It's really too much to ask for apple to support an international standard that's run on the majority of all the phones out there that offers secure Crespiration messaging. For one way or another, it makes more sense that we put ourselves through this. That you're. You're absolutely right, apple.

2:24:17 - Leo Laporte
Actually colt and your ground. Colfior, who is the, the creator of air message, actually has an open letter to apple saying, please, free iMessage, please. It deserves to be open. But meanwhile we got this kind of weird hacky workaround. But if but again, now I don't mind Installing translator because I've got this mac just running in the background all the time. Yeah, and now I can use translator as an additional thing On that. So, thank you, steven. Thank you for being here now. I didn't mention the reason Steven's here is. Alex took the day off. He's in. He's busy working. He will be. As I understand it, he'll be back next week. But, steven, thank you so much for filling in. You have a hurricane coming your way With some crazy name, inara or something.

2:25:01 - Stephen Robles
Yeah, oh, I don't even know now.

2:25:04 - Leo Laporte
I'd ideal, you, ideal you. They got weird names now.

2:25:08 - Stephen Robles
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any other might be coming tonight and sit tomorrow, but it should be. Looks like it's going to go north of you a Little bit, so it's, it's north of me and you know, in florida we just have hurricane part. You just used to this.

2:25:19 - Leo Laporte
No big.

2:25:22 - Stephen Robles
There's a pleasure being here. Thanks for having me on again.

2:25:24 - Leo Laporte
Good, we love having you on. We'll have you back soon, steven rubles. It works for a variety of different places apple insider, of course but the best thing to do is go to beardfm Because you could find out more about his beard. No, because he is the bearded Teacher and he teaches you everything you need to know from his uh, his Evil lair in Tampa, florida. It does podcasts and all. I don't know if it's evil, it's uh you know, it's the side of a mountain.

It could be evil. I don't know. No, I'm no mountains.

2:25:59 - Stephen Robles
I can't have it. No, if you try to have a cave, it's just underwater. That's why there's no villains in florida. No villains, you can't have a secret cave.

2:26:05 - Leo Laporte
There are no villains in florida. See, I didn't even know that. That's true, beardfm. Thank you, steven, you're the best. Really appreciate it very much. Andy and a co, when are you gonna be on gbh next?

2:26:17 - Andy Ihnakto
I'm gonna be on next friday at the bossam public library at 12 30 in the afternoon. Come on down and watch me. What would I imagine a respectable geek who's gonna be on youtube will dress like that's it. I sure you. It's gonna be very, very funny. Um, also gonna be on the gray matter podcasts live.

2:26:36 - Leo Laporte
Oh that's alex's podcast with the wonderful michael krasny. Oh, that's exciting.

2:26:43 - Andy Ihnakto
It's gonna be fun. So there, so you can listen. I think you it does a stream life, the first time I've, the first time I've been doing.

2:26:49 - Leo Laporte
I don't think. Well, he didn't when I did it, but I think that that was the plan eventually.

2:26:55 - Andy Ihnakto
So I believe it's gonna be like one episode 49, episode 50. So I'm recording on friday. It'll probably be like the week after that, yeah and you'll really enjoy it.

2:27:03 - Leo Laporte
It's uh, it's a great podcast to listen to anyway. Um, he has some of the best people on because for years he was the host of uh uh forum on kqed, our public radio station san francisco, so he has a really good rolodex. I'm glad that they they got to the the eyes so that we can get any. Do you like a gray matter on your any podcast to client that you like Good?

2:27:25 - Jason Snell
Well, listen to that, I can't wait.

2:27:26 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I don't think they do it live today, but you can certainly hear it after the fact. Thank you, andrew. Mr Jason snell has a few podcasts himself. You'll find out about everything he's up to at six colorscom slash. Jason, when is the memphis telethon?

2:27:44 - Jason Snell
memphis telethon is uh later in september. I think it's the 22nd.

2:27:50 - Leo Laporte
I want to say yeah, and it's all the relay Eastern. Will all the relay fm people show up for that? That'll be a song.

2:27:57 - Jason Snell
I think there are only four of us who are going to be there in person. I've never actually been on the telethon in person before, but we get a lot of people come in over zoom or there are Pre-recorded things, so you'll end up seeing and hearing from most of the hosts during the event. They got 12 hours to fill. I mean, yeah, anybody you want to turn up, anybody who turns up, it will probably be able to be on at some point during the 12 hours that they're.

Isn't mic in the uk? Uh, stevens and memphis, and st jude is in memphis and st jude actually has its own. Uh, the, the fundraising arm of st jude, has its own studio for stuff like this.

2:28:31 - Leo Laporte
Perfect, that's great. Uh, again, six colorscom slash jason, always great to see you. Thank you, jason. Uh, at least one of us got an invite to the Apple event.

Uh, we do a mac break weekly every tuesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 1800 utc. You can watch us do it live At livetwittv. There's actually audio and video so you can watch or listen live. If you're watching or listening chat At irctwittv, the irc only makes sense if you're doing it live. That's why we do it live, so you can join us irctwittv. You don't need an irc client, you can use your browser to do that. Of course, club twit members can use our club twit discord to chat about the show as it goes on. After the fact, we have edited versions of the show not lightly, very lightly edited versions of the show At our website, twittv slash mbw.

There's a youtube channel dedicated to mac break weekly and, of course, the best way to get it subscribe. You can subscribe to the audio or the video feed in your favorite podcast player. You'll get it automatically. That way. We will be back next week and again, we will be doing a live stream of the event On tuesday, which I guess means we'll have a slightly delayed mac break. Weekly. We'll do one right after september 12th, two weeks from today. Uh, the apple iphone 15 event. That should be fun. Thanks for joining us, but now it is my sad and solemn duty to tell you it's time to get back to work Because break time is over. See you next week. Bye bye

2:30:04 - Scott Wilkison
Hey there, scott wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard, home theater geeks is back. Each week I bring you the latest audio video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your av system, product reviews and more. You can enjoy home theater geeks only if you're a member of club twit, which costs seven bucks a month, or you can subscribe to home theater geeks by itself for only $2.99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of home theater geekatude.