This Week in Enterprise Tech Episode 501 Transcript

This Week in Enterprise Tech Episode 501 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Louis Maresca (00:00:00):
On this week in enterprise tech, we have Mr. Brian Chee, Mr. Curtis Franklin on the show today. Now we've been talking about market trends on different episodes here, ONW, but this week we're gonna talk about a potential market that can have an explosion in the coming ones. That's identity access managed solutions. Plus we have an exceptional host Roundtable today. Remote work and working from home has changed the very shape of people's networks and organizations' network perimeter. Today. We're gonna talk about network hardware for your home and your small business, and we're gonna take you through the full spectrum of devices and the offerings out there. So you definitely shouldn't miss it.

Brian Chee (00:00:39):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWIT.

Louis Maresca (00:00:48):
This is this week at enterprise tech episode 501 recorded July 8th, 2022. I firewall on a boat. This episode of this enterprise tech is brought to you by it pro TV. Give your team an engaging it development platform to level up their skills. Volume discounts. Start at five seats, go to it. Pro.Tv/Enterprise. Make sure to mention enterprise 30 to your designated it pro TV account executive to get 30% off or more on a business plan. And by user way.org user way is the world's number one accessibility solution. And it's committed to enabling the fundamental human right of digital accessibility for everyone. When you're ready to make your site compliant. Citing which solution to use is an easy choice to make, go to userway.org/twit for 30% off user way's AI powered accessibility solution. And by new Relic, that next time PM call is just waiting to happen.

Louis Maresca (00:01:50):
Get new Relic before it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and a hundred gigabytes of data per month. Free forever, no credit card required. Sign up at new relic.com/enterprise. Welcome TWIET this weekend enterprise tech to show that is dedicated to you, the enterprise professional, the it pro, and that geek who just wants to know how those worlds connected. I'm your host Louis Maresca, your guide through this big world of the enterprise. I can't guide you by myself. I need to bring in the professionals and the experts starting with Mr. Brian Chee, net architect at sky fiber and all around tech geek. How are you, my friend? Any projects that you can share with us this week?

Brian Chee (00:02:33):
I'm slowly cleaning up the garage so I can go put another rack in and I wanna set up my 3d printers. Then I discovered, man, does it get hot in there? So I'm also working on putting in some temperature controlled exhaust fans to try and get the, I bet temperature under control.

Louis Maresca (00:02:52):
Now, how many do you have you said printers with the plural? How many, how many machines do you have?

Brian Chee (00:02:55):
Yeah, I've, I've got Padre sent me his Dremel and his mono price. So I'm gonna play around with those and see if I like them. And then I'll also have form labs two and the form labs two, because it, it needs a lot of post-processing. It requires a washer full of 90% or better is Procal alcohol. And in those kind of heat, that kind of heat it's going to evaporate but quick and make it really easy to get drunk just by breathing in my garage. So exhaust fans are us and we'll see how I like those lower end FDM printers, if not, there's some pretty good deals on the lulls bot TA six on eBay. And that, that's what I had at and it does a spectacular job, especially since I did a lot of printing with ninja flex, for things like fiber caps, SFP caps, and things like that. Can do some neat stuff with FDM printing that you can't do with an SLA and vice versa.

Louis Maresca (00:04:09):
Right. Right. I think you've created something new there drunk by 3d printing. We'll have to see where that goes. <Laugh> thanks. Cheaper for being here. Well, it's always refreshing to have our very senior analyst at I'm DIA and our security enterprise expert. He's Mr. Curtis, Franklin Curtis. I hear that your neck deep in research. How's that going?

Curtis Franklin (00:04:28):
Doing well, Lou, thanks very much. I got some major publishing that's gonna be happening later on this month. Been working on that also getting ready to head out again. I'll be going to the AWS reinforced conference up in Boston later this month. And I'm going to be getting ready of course, for black cat and DEFCON. Those are coming up. So lots of interesting stuff going on. And you know, just to keep things interesting, I'm also working on our 3d printer. We've got Aner three and getting ready to stand up an Octa print server. So lots of fun happening there.

Louis Maresca (00:05:11):
Lots of fun stuff. You guys have lots of fun stuff going on. Well, hopefully hopefully we'll have some fun stuff going on over at the marque house pretty soon too. Thank you guys. Well, speaking of fun, we have lots of fun stuff this week in the enterprise. We've been talking about market trends on many of the episodes we have here on the show. But look, we're gonna talk about today. A potential market that actually could have an explosion in the coming ones. So stick around. We have more information about that, but you can't guess what that is. Plus we have an exceptional round host round table discussion today. Now remote work and working from home is changed the very shape of a lot of organizations networks out there, especially the network perimeter. Today, we are gonna talk about network hardware for your home and your small business.

Louis Maresca (00:05:50):
So lots of talk about there, even the goods and the bad. So stick around. Cause we have lots more to talk about, but before we do, we do have to go ahead and jump in this week's news flips. Now, cloud computing and use of container technology continue to be more prolific in today's business world. Now Kubernetes is part of that eco because it can make it possible for organizations to improve uptime efficiency and overall performance. I don't have to tell you guys that now the devil is in the details there though. You need a well orchestrated cluster in order to deliver strong performance and full potential of Kubernetes. Now, the question is, how do you get there now? I really like this article that RT insights wrote and talks about the concept of observability. Now I'm gonna, I'm a big proponent of observability. And the reason is, is it's when development teams struggle to track the state of their Kubernetes or serverless functions or other aspects of their cloud architectures, they need to address through the problem.

Louis Maresca (00:06:42):
And that's lack of observability. Now, the thing is to understand about observability is that's not just a single product that we're talking about here. It doesn't focus on logging or just metrics. There's no turnkey off the shelf solution. There observability is the idea of how long your team spends trying to actually understand the problem. It's pretty simple. The longer you spend, the more, less productive you are, the more money you cost and you have a dashboard or a learning system that gives you the root of plot with the problem. Then, then you have, then you're not really using the idea of observability. So when organizations increase the use of microservices in their architectures or their simultaneously increasing their service area and frequency of software changes while these adjustments are made in the name of efficiency, they also bring about an increased need of visibility into what their cloud applications or their infrastructure's doing.

Louis Maresca (00:07:29):
Now close monitoring is not only needed to identify anomalies when they occur, but also to understand the excess capacity the system needs to load balance. So what can organizations do here? Well, there are four benchmarks to me that make sense. First, you can track the overall health and dynamic behavior through standard infrastructure monitoring, ensure you're tracking dynamic events like new developments or deployments, health checks, and as well as auto scaling. Now you can also track stats here and can actually help you understand things of what's going on now, correlating log data and performance. Information's important. Most developers like me spend a lot of time switching and contact switching between logs and overall monitoring to trace tools. Now open source observability tools like open telemetry can actually help you connect the dots between the logs and the tools. And it can also help you correlate business intelligence with cluster and Infor infrastructure performance.

Louis Maresca (00:08:19):
And the last two are a bit more challenging. One is understanding in cluster communication or inter cluster communication. You can also do this using Kubernetes, metadata and connecting with open telemetry that helps you kind of connect the dots between those two. Now finally, should they be able to track and audit request through the tech stack? Now there are a lot of tools out there to do that, and it can be made to display data right next to other telemetry data for visibility. In fact, Prometheus monitoring data is an open source example there now Kubernetes and other complex cloud architectures will continue to play a key role in development in engineering, as competition heats up there, Kubernetes observability will become table stakes to minimizing disruption, maintaining velocity and improving your business performance.

Curtis Franklin (00:09:03):
Well, the department of justice put out a release this week, that honor Oxy of Miami, Florida is accused of personally collecting millions off a scam that sold more than $1 billion as with a B in fraudulent Cisco networking equipment to unsuspecting customers. Now he owned a company called pro network entities that sold refurbished rehab in modified Cisco gear imported from China in Hong Kong, along with fake yet convincing packaging labels and documentation between 2014 and 2022 customs and border protection seized approximately 180 shipments of counterfeit Cisco devices being shipped to the pro network entities from China and Hong Kong in response to some of these seizures, a soy allegedly falsely submitted official paperwork to CBP under the alias of Dave Durden, an identity that he used to communicate with Chinese co-conspirators. And now it's not like Cisco wasn't aware of the scheme in trying to stop it between 2014 and 2019.

Curtis Franklin (00:10:05):
Cisco sent seven letters to AO asking him to cease and desist his trafficking counterfeit good ax soy allegedly responded to at least two of these letters by causing Hister attorney to provide Cisco with forged documents in all ax, soy allegedly ran at least 19 companies formed in New Jersey and Florida, as well as at least 15 Amazon storefronts, at least 10 E based storefronts and multiple other entities collectively all known as the pro network entities. I mentioned earlier that collectively imported tens of thousands of fraudulent and counterfeit Cisco networking devices from China and Hong Kong and resold them to customers in the United States and overseas falsely representing the products as new and genuine today. Oxy is charged with one count of conspiracy to trafficking counterfeit goods and to commit mail and wire fraud, three counts of mail fraud, four counts of wire fraud and three counts of trafficking in counterfeit goods.

Brian Chee (00:11:08):
Well, thank you to PBS for this article. It's about FDA is allowing pharmacists. You don't have to go to your doctor except maybe as a follow up, but pharmacists can prescribe the Pfizer COVID 19 pill called plod. So this I, I feel this is a terrific mood Mo moved by the FDA, especially since antivirals in general, need to be started within just a few days after symptoms. First appear. Sadly, the Pfizer product Paxil vid is not approved as a prophylactic like the Talu antiviral. I should add that I've managed to not catch the con flu the last couple of times at CS by twisting my doctor's arm, to get a prescription for Tamiflu to take half doses, to help prevent catching the flu, you know, a virus from the crowd. You might want to go and ask Padre how many times he's caught the con flu over the years of CES well or any big conference?

Brian Chee (00:12:10):
Well, here's an excerpt from the PBS article quote, since Paxil vid must be taken within five days after symptoms begin authorizing state licensed pharmacist to prescribe Paxil, vid could expand access to timely treatment. According to FDA drug center director, Patricia Kaoni still use could be limited by paperwork requirements. Patients are expected to bring their recent health records, including blood tests and list of their current me medication. So pharmacists can check for health conditions and medications that can negatively impact with PAX livid as an alternative pharmacists can consult with the patient's primary care doctor. Well for the road warriors in our audience, this means catching COVID might no longer mean having to pay atrocious rates in hotel associated clinics and not get stuck as long as in your, as, as you know, not as long in your hotel, until you can test negative again and travel by air. Just convince a handy pharmacist that you need. You meet the criteria and hope that something like plod will cut the intensity in duration of the virus.

Louis Maresca (00:13:26):
The, you probably have heard about the slowdown of Moore's lawn. Now, if you remember, Moore's lawns where the speed of computing and the number of transistors were supposed to actually double every couple years, unfortunately, transistors are getting to the point of being so small. They can't really remain functional. Well, computing has progressed over the years, but no longer at that speed. Now that that's where things get interesting companies like IBM are trying new techniques to double the speed and capacity of competing to get back on track. Now, the latest 3d chip stacking technology is out there now. IBM research and Tokyo electron collaborated on a new breakthrough, simplifying the process, producing wafers, using 3d chip stacking. Now they have successfully implemented a new process for producing 300 millimeter Silicon wafer chips. Now making it the world's first now stacking technology commonly has vertical connections between the wafers.

Louis Maresca (00:14:14):
Now, normally they use glass wafers that are then removed using ultraviolet lasers later on in the process. Now IBM and tells a new process uses a 300 millimeter module with an infrared laser transparent to the Silicon and allowing standard Silicon wafers to be used instead of glass. Now, what does this mean? Well, it means that the new process can actually reduce the strain and complexities in the global chip industry. You know, you may have heard that the chip industry is finding it challenging to make chips fast and efficiently, especially in the pandemic area. Now chip stacking is typically only used in high end operations, such as the production of high bandwidth memory. However, it's got the potential to expand the number of transistors in a very specific volume. Now this means that Moore's law needs to focus on areas and volume in the coming years.

Louis Maresca (00:14:59):
It also means that Moore's law may not be dead just yet. Well, folks that does it for the blips next up we have the bites, but before we get to the bites, we do have to thank a really great sponsor of this enterprise tech. And that's it pro TV, your it team needs the skills and knowledge to ensure your business' success. And with it pro TV, more than 80% of its users who start a video, actually finish an it pro TV is engaging and your team will enjoy learning on their platform. Give your team the tools they need to make your business thrive. Courses are entertaining and binge worthy. Keeping your team interested, invested in learning the whole time. Now the tech industry is evolving and changing rapidly and your team needs to be trained today. Now, when a new release happens or a system upgrade, or even a cyber threat faces your business, it pro TV offers the training and perspectives of those disruptions within days, if not hours now, what is, why is it pro TV, right for your business?

Louis Maresca (00:15:58):
Good question. Right? Well, get all the training and certificates and certifications for your team done all in one place. Now it pro TV has every vendor and skill you need for your team. The it team training, they provide Microsoft it training Cisco training, Linux training, apple training, security cloud, and a lot more there. Plus more than 5,800 hours worth ranging from technical skills to compliance to soft skills. Now you can do so much with it. Pro TV business plan, track your team's results. You can manage your seats, assign and unassign team members and access monthly uses reports, which actually really useful see metrics like logins and view time tracks completed and much more plus easily managed teams managed subsets of users or teams by providing them with customized assignments, monitoring progress and reporting on the usage of the platform. Plus assignments can be full courses or even individual courses within courses.

Louis Maresca (00:16:53):
So advanced reportings also there get immediate insights into your teams' view patterns and progress over any period of time with those visual reports. Now don't forget that it pro TV has individual plans as well. Give your team the it development platform. They need to level up their skills while enjoying the journey for teams of two to 1000 volume discounts, start at five seats and go to it pro TV slash enterprise. Make sure you mention enterprise 30 to your designated it prod account executive to get 30% off or more on a business plan. And we think it pro TV for their support of this week and enterprise tech. Well folks, it's now time for the bites. That's right. There are number of tech markets that we've talked about in the past that have been trending for a while. Now we talked about, in fact, in our last 500 episode, we actually talked about one the database as a service market.

Louis Maresca (00:17:49):
In fact, where MongoDB is actually a leader there. Now there are some markets that are out there that are, might not be trending yet. They're kind of slowly creeping along and they've been there for a while. But they might have the potential to actually have massive growth in the near future. Can you guess what it is? Well, you guys said identity access management. I wanna get my co bring them back in, in a second, but my friend Victoria will actually be very happy about this. The dark reading Aoke actually calls out a study that this week that shows a global spending on identity and access management solutions is on pace to rise by 62% in the next five years. That's a huge, huge trend and jump. Now, most of that is a subs subscription models. Now we'll get to why that is so identity as a service is the new model not surprising there.

Louis Maresca (00:18:34):
Now Juniper research actually published this research this report and that the it spending or I am spending will rise from the expected 16 billion this year up to 26 billion in 2027. Now SMB is driving that for us. It's the driving momentum behind this, the small and business small and medium sized business. And that's because the expense to add in the IM market was big in the past to try to get into that market was actually really big. So mostly most of the time it was really big dogs and enterprises that were paying into it. Now subscription services are actually helping that to bring that down market downstream, the SMB. So the SMPs you know, they don't have a lot more as much money to, to put into these things as these enterprises do. So even though they SMBs are the driving force behind identity access management, the question is they're what could actually be causing them to push this?

Louis Maresca (00:19:22):
What, what about SMBs? Right? You might remember that the pandemic has pushed us to remote work. Well, the fact that SMBs have a smaller budget and they need to handle the remote work. Sometimes they need to utilize, bring your own device support, right? So the cover all the costs of need for hardware in your workforce. Plus there's also been the explosion in the IOT market as well. So these are some of the driving forces that are causing SMBs to, to move to IM solutions and do that in a more subscription or service based way, cuz of that's more cost effective for them over a longer period. I wanna bring my co-host back in because there's lots of questions here. Obviously the IM market's been around for a while cheaper. Don't wanna throw this to you first because the, the, you know, this has been around for a while, but we're, we're now saying, oh wait, now there's gonna be a huge explosion in this market. And we talked about some of the reasons, one of them and being that, the fact that, you know, SMB is kind of pushing, pushing this out there, but what, what do you think could be some of the other reasons?

Brian Chee (00:20:20):
Well, I, I think so a lot of the reasons is we've got people doing, shall we say they they're, they're having trouble implementing things like HR rules. I guess that's the easiest way to say the, the reality is if someone leaves the organization, how many things do you have to change? So 20 years ago, literally 20 years ago, Oliver wrist, and I ran an identity management bakeoff well, I can't use the word bake off cause that's owned by Pillsbury. We call 'em shootouts and we got a bunch of folks in and we did a scenario of a person that gets married. So you can go and trigger a name change for the, well, actually we did a company merger first, so you can merge two identity trees. Then we did, you know, they got married. They, they so forth. We call it Harry met Sally and for forger myer.com.

Brian Chee (00:21:24):
Anyway, that was back quite a while ago. But the problem is it's really complicated. I mean, we had senior engineers helping us write the scripts so that someone like HR could go, go and say click, and we're going to disable your credentials because you're under HR review, say you get terminated or something like that. And you want to go and do something, but the cost was atrocious. So the wish has been there. You know, the response we got from the article was quite quite a, a tidal wave. Everybody wanted it until they started researching how much it would cost and how much, you know, personnel cost, you know, the scripting required almost required a full-time person. So going back to where we are, 20 years later, we have a need. There are more and more regulations on how we deal with personnel.

Brian Chee (00:22:35):
We have more and more people moving around and we've seen lots of stories about how we've a person got back in to do some harm to the organization or enterprise because their credentials weren't turned off quickly enough for something like that. So the wish for this capability has been here for many decades. But the problem is the technology hasn't caught up. Maybe it's finally catching up and the cloud means now we can spread the cost of development over a larger marketplace. So maybe the cloud is gonna be the lever for true identity access management. Instead of what we were looking at back in back 20 years ago, when we had to do everything on prem,

Louis Maresca (00:23:31):
That's a good point. I think, you know, obviously cloud is being the driving force, you know, cheaper. I mean, Curtis someone to throw this to you because a lot of organizations, they still have, they're still in the hybrid model. They're, they're moving some of their solutions to, to the cloud, but they still have on-premise private, private cloud solutions is, is do these types of IMS or services help with that? Is that some of the driving force as well?

Curtis Franklin (00:23:55):
Well, that is some of the driving force. And one of the things that we're seeing is that there are cloud based solutions for providing identity management that go across multiple cloud or complex hybrid cloud architectures. And on-prem so one of the nice things there is that it's possible for smaller organizations to be able to have more advanced identity management because they don't have to manage, deploy and administer every single aspect of that. They can essentially have it done as a service where the onus within the organization falls on the HR department often acting through it to have the cloud service or managed service provider do the actual implementation of the identity management. Frankly, I think this is good because one of the things that we're seeing more and more is that poor identity management is a key component in a lot of significant data breaches. If you have good identity management, even if the the malicious actor is able to make some inroads, they can't go very far because they have much more trouble finding an existing privileged file, privileged identity to use, to gain access to the entire system.

Louis Maresca (00:25:34):
Yeah, I think you bring a good point there. Obviously having a centralized location where, you know, organizations can actually manage their identities is very important. And especially in an SMB case where you might have a, a remote sales force that's running around all the time. And then like cheaper said, you might have somebody, some attrition on the, in the organization, you need to lock things down or ensure things are locked down. Curtis, what, what do, what about zero trust? Is this also you know, again, pardon my ignorance here is this, this is, is this also a driving force between some of these types of solutions?

Curtis Franklin (00:26:07):
Well, zero trust is something that companies are doing. I mean, it is a great catch phrase and it is one of the hot phrases that is being used in marketing identity services. And the good news is that if you properly implement a zero trust or micro segmentation architecture, then you can go a long way toward limiting the damage from any given intrusion. The bad news is that if you're going to do this, it really does require having solid identity and access management in place as the first step for your users. Without that the zero trust means very little. So the good news is that it is driving some of the IAM action. It is driving companies to want to invest in IAM. The bad news is that if they want to go full zero trust, they're fined pretty rapidly that just having the solid identity management is just the first step. They, they have a long way to go, but they do have to take that critical first step of getting the identities and access management. Right

Louis Maresca (00:27:35):
Now, there are a bunch of players out there, obviously big players, Okta, there's a zero. We talked them recently. You know, there's obviously Microsoft in that, in that play. IBM and Oracle are also growing in that market. Cheaper. I wanted to throw this to you cuz you know, you had mentioned this in the back channel. I mean obviously there are a lot of big players that are offering support out there, but the truth is there's, there's, there's not that much diversity that they need to manage or that many platforms that they have to cover. Right. Is there, there's not there there's people are trying to reduce things down as they move to the cloud.

Brian Chee (00:28:07):
Yeah. The, if anything, the cloud has forced a homogenization of authentication methodology, so that that's a lot of multi syllable worlds. But the reality is is if you're putting everything in the cloud, you don't want to have to have, you know, 30 or 40 different connectors. So that was the thing that made the identity management 20 years ago. So expensive. Each connector was really expensive. In fact, IBM was one of the players and we actually had a connector to an IBM V actually is a virtual machine running on a think pad that was OS 3, 3 70 a mainframe architecture. And that was a complex beast. So because we have a lot less variations in where we have our data we have a lot less variations on the platforms and this is being driven by the cloud and the pandemic is actually done a lot to drive all this because more stuff had to go into the cloud.

Brian Chee (00:29:21):
So that we didn't have to manage as much on prem because our workforce was off prem. Anyway, we, we can spin it whichever way you want, but the reality is, is, as I said, people wanted the capability. They just couldn't justify it cuz it was too expensive. But when you start homogenizing the access management, then now all of a sudden you can spread the cost of development over a much, much wider area. So anyway it was cool. We, we did some great testing. It was something that lots and lots of people said they wanted. But the cloud is, has forced. It will force it. And the pandemic is apparently peeling the purse strings open to go and finally be able to pay for some of this. And I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes because I've been, you know, I've been literally waiting 20 years to see it happen.

Louis Maresca (00:30:24):
<Laugh> it's true. It's true. I, one last thing I wanna throw this back to Curtis in a second. I think the one thing that I'm seeing globally obviously is the more awareness around compliance management. So compliance being compliant is very important. We talked a little bit about the fact that some organizations run into trouble when they, when people leave the organization or change roles or, or the fact that they need to reduce down and, and ensure that they're, you know, they're defining who their users are at any point. In fact, there was a recent stat that showed that 71% of organizations actually use manual processes for identity management. So the, so having these solutions is really gonna help. But Chris, I wanna throw this to you because compliance is a complex thing. How will IM solutions help?

Curtis Franklin (00:31:08):
Well with compliance often, what you're trying to do is prove that you are in compliance with given regulations and often regulations have to do with who has access to given data and what you're doing as an organization to prevent those who are not authorized from having access to that data. If you can show a good IAM practice, if you can show that you're taking all of the steps to properly authorize and control the identities of those who have access to data, then you've taken a good step towards proving that you're in compliance with those particular regulations. And this has to do with all kinds of compliance regimes ranging from HIPAA to various financial regulatory regimes, to some of the GDPR regimes that are so important to any company that does business in Europe. Again, one of the things that you need to do is not only comply, but prove you are in compliance and having the records and the the documentation from your identity management service provider can go a long way toward making the auditors happy when you're proving compliance.

Louis Maresca (00:32:30):
Yes, the infamous audit trails. So I agree if these app solutions definitely can help there, you know, it's hopeful to see the scale, the flexibility as part of these solutions. And now that they're trying to bring them down market, I'm hoping that I, as a developer, I can start maybe even utilizing these things in, in smaller projects, just to see how they integrate well with, you know, software that I develop or even mobile solutions, that kind of thing. So I'm actually interested to see how this all plays out. And if these subscription services are even available to to, to consumers or, or whatnot too, as well. Well, to see, well folks that does it for the bites next up, we have our amazing host round table. So definitely stick around for that. But before we do, we do have something, another great sponsor of this week in enterprise tech and that's user way.org. And here's a great message directly from user way,

Speaker 4 (00:33:19):
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Louis Maresca (00:36:01):
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Louis Maresca (00:37:05):
Now I'm, you know, in the past, I, I can honestly say I've gone overboard a little bit with my home network, but I can, I can say that in the last couple years, I know people who spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars upgrading their home network and, and even way past anything I've ever done. And the truth is there's a large, massive spectrum of quality of hardware, right? There's, there's huge spectrum, whether it's for consumer or even SMB now cheaper. I wanna throw this to you first and bring us all back in, just kind of discuss it, you know, there's lots going on in this space. And I, I, I know you've kind of done a bunch of research here before, right?

Brian Chee (00:37:40):
Yeah. In fact, I, I'm gonna start off with referring to an info world article that I wrote many years ago universal threat management devices, UTMs, where you're combining multiple security functions in a single physical device. I happen to be one person that I run an enterprise grade firewall at home. Well, one of the things that a lot of people keep forgetting is that there is a difference between what is necessary in this day and age. I consider a UTM as the minimum entry level into this game because it can't just be a traditional firewall, you know, think of a traditional firewall as a hotel with lots and lots of doors in it. And a traditional firewall only really turns off or gets rid of doors, which represent, say like a port for web traffic or SSH or whatever different network services represent doors.

Brian Chee (00:38:48):
Well, if you remove the doors, a bad guy, can't go through it. Well, a UTM in general does more than that. So a lot of times you have to open one of those doors to the general public, say, web traffic, say you wanna run a web access to your home cameras. Well, that means you have to leave port 80 open, or if it's encrypted port 4 43, but that means anyone can go through those doors. So a UTM with something like intrusion detection puts a bouncer at the door to check credentials, make sure it's what you really want. You can put filters so you can profile the data or the access in. And that's one of the things I, I talked about in that article. And the reality is I must have done something, right, because my methodologies and even some of the scripts that I did have been borrowed by lots and lots of organizations because it was all published under creative commons.

Brian Chee (00:39:52):
Well, the problem is at the time, you know, this is, it has changed over years, but at the time, a lot of the really inexpensive firewalls were based on Linux, which is all fine and good, but these manufacturers just put a Linux kernel on it. So the ports, there's all kinds of ports that were open services that aren't needed on a firewall. Things like time, things like FTP, things like SSH and all that, they were all open because all it was is a copy of Linux with IP tables running on it. So I guess the bottom line here is you get what you pay for. So I'm gonna, you know, throw this open. But one of the things that I'm telling a lot of people, if they ask me what kind of home, inexpensive home firewall should I get right now, my knee jerk reaction is get something based on PF sense.

Brian Chee (00:40:52):
There's a bunch of really good ones out there. Www.Pf sense.org/products has a nice list of them. I happen to know the developers at net gate and they've done a mighty fine job. In fact, their, their systems will actually update threat signatures, just like the really expensive enterprise grade firewalls. So that at least once the threat has been codified by cert or something like that they start putting those signatures in so it can block it. Fire wall is also another good one. And what's nice about their platform is they put a lot of CPU in there because all this threat management, all this malware detection takes CPU time. And that's one of the problems with a lot of the really inexpensive firewalls is they don't have enough CPU. So the ones that I tested on that article actually let through something like 80% of the attacks that we ran there we are using some automated threat tools so we could attack from both inside and outside anyway. We all have our own favorites and I'm not going to dictate that. So our let's go back to Lou and Kurt, let's start talking. What kinds of things have you seen with people talking about extending the edge of the enterprise into the home?

Curtis Franklin (00:42:24):
Well, one of the things that that I think is interesting is, you know, you often get a, a question what makes a firewall inter enterprise class versus one that is a consumer great firewall, you know, where, where is the dividing line and for better, or for worse, it's, it's a fuzzy line because at one time we might have gone with sheer bandwidth as the dividing line, but now to be honest, some of the much more affordable consumer priced firewalls can handle all the bandwidth you are ever going to throw at it from a home location. So the answer often has to do with both the sophistication of the rules that can be put into place and especially the management of that firewall. I mean, when you think about it, a firewall is in its simplest form, a box of rules that says, if a packet matches this criteria, we let it through.

Curtis Franklin (00:43:38):
And if it doesn't, we stop it, that's what a firewall does. And so how sophisticated can you make those rules? Some of the most basic home firewalls or consumer firewalls come preconfigured, and you're basically stuck with it as you go up, it becomes more configurable, which is nice. It allows you to do things like, be much more sophisticated with your O T devices with VPNs that you might have to your employer's network in terms of reporting things. But it also means that it's more complex because all of a sudden someone, you or someone you hire or someone at your company will get to that in a moment, had us to establish those rules. Now, what a lot of companies have done during the pandemic and continue to do is place enterprise class, but small firewalls in their employees homes so that they can be remotely managed.

Curtis Franklin (00:44:48):
And what we find that they do is not only do the VPNs back to the enterprise network, but they also do. What's called VLAN tagging where essentially they're creating multiple virtual networks inside the employee's home one, that's just for the employee to get back to the enterprise network. And one that the employees, family can use to do whatever it is in the employee's family is going to do. The good news here is that it not only gives better perform security at the edge, but it creates a more secure residential situation for the family as, as a side benefit. And as we know, fringe benefits are things that everyone is looking for in a time of greater inflation and a more competitive job market.

Brian Chee (00:45:47):
So one of the things I wanted to talk about on that vein is while I thought I didn't like Morra over time, I've seen more and more of what they're producing and seeing, oh, is that what they're trying to do? Well, we've talked about Morra and the Cisco solutions as part of the sassy conversation, and this wa the Morra go is a relatively small combined router VPN and firewall device that I didn't like it first, but then as I started really taking a good hard look, especially with the pandemic, it's like, oh, neat. I can get it, give it to an employee. I can plug it in and push policies to it. It can also include as part of those policies, a separation, so you can separate the work network from the network the kids go on. In fact, that was one of the scenarios in my firewall test is little Johnny brings his laptop in that he had at school and he plugs it into dad's workplace and infects the company because he's infected and comes in behind the far.

Brian Chee (00:47:07):
This is back when perimeter was the big deal. But the world has changed. In fact dual, which used to be a twit sponsor is re I guess, publishing or re remaking available. The information on Dan keynote from the 2014 black hat called cyber security as real politic. And he, he back then was really saying, no, no, the real edge of enterprise, isn't your corporate headquarters. It's actually the home because people are working from home and that's what we really need to start taking a look at. So the world has been changing and I'm, you know, I've gotta imagine Mr. Lou has been really seeing a lot of the changes, especially with the direction different products have gone and security requirements have changed, and that has to be affecting products. And since Lou's favorite topic is software, you know what kinds of things have been changing? You know, are we actually starting to see some of the security being, not assuming to be at the firewall or assuming to be at intrusion detection device, but is those policies being implemented in the software? Now

Louis Maresca (00:48:31):
That's a good question. And I definitely want to get to that, but before I do, I do have to think another great sponsor of this weekend at rise tech and that's new, where like, that's why, if you're a software engineer like me, you've been there, it's 9:00 PM. It's a weekend. It's a Sunday night. You're finally wind unwinding from work, your phone buzzes. That's right. It's an alert. Something's broken, something's out there going wrong. And your mind's already racing to figure out what's going on. Right. Is it the back end? Is it the front end? Is it global? Is it the server? Is it the network? Is it the cloud BroadB rider? Lots of questions going on is the quarries, you know, for the database or this backend running slow, did I introduce a, a bug in the last deployment now, the whole team's scrambling to find out what's the, what the fix actually is right now, according to a new Relic report, only half of all organizations are implementing observability for their networks and their systems.

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Louis Maresca (00:50:10):
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Louis Maresca (00:51:14):
And of course, moving some of the hardware folk functionality to the software space, whether it's be services or whatnot. And, you know, I'm actually seeing this with a lot of the SMB devices that out there. In fact, before I actually got off of the Dell device that you had, we, we had inter interchanged before they had upgraded the, the the, the firmware to start allowing for some intrusion detection on the device based off of their AI service that they had. So like you would, you would actually pipe a bunch of data up to them from your device. And it would actually come back to the device with a dashboard that you could actually view that showed intrusion detection. And I think that's a lot, a lot of that's happening all over the place. You you'll see services that people will install on other devices within their network that will help them get visibility into the device and into the, into what's going on.

Louis Maresca (00:52:13):
But again, that's a lot of upstream. That's a lot of more expensive devices out there that require that have that capability you know, in, in my, in my quest to find a budget, if not, I would say middle of the road, expensive piece of hardware that I could use both for, you know, connecting to the, to the Microsoft network as well as doing, you know being able to create these virtual networks so that I can have a home network and a, and a a work network separately. It, it's challenging to find that. I, I tell you I've tried everything from you know, you know, we had been talking about some of these kind of cheaper brands that are out there, like the tendon Nova device, which is pretty cheap, it's, you know, 150 bucks or whatnot. But again, these are devices that, that try to have the features of the big dogs, but they fall short with their software, with their, you know, with their management capabilities, with constant firmware updates, they don't do it. They don't have the firmware updates. They don't have a large ecosystem out there. Their support is not there. So that brings the next topic that I want to throw to you guys is, is, you know, what, what kind of comes with a good device, whether it's inexpensive or not, is, is it, you know, I kinda listed some of them already, but does, are there other things, or, or do those things even matter when it comes to a good device, whether it's a inexpensive or or a expensive device?

Curtis Franklin (00:53:44):
Well,

Louis Maresca (00:53:46):
Go ahead,

Curtis Franklin (00:53:46):
Kurt. No, I I'm. My question is going to be in what, what way? Because there are certain things that you do want to have included in a more expensive device your licenses, for example which are typically going to be on an annual basis. So you'll subscribe annually, but they include updating all your definitions on a regular basis. They will incorporate new rules to deal with newly discovered threats. It will include incorporation into the device vendors, threat detection, network, and threat analysis network. So all of those things tend to be part of the add on that. You're going to get with a more complete business class device. And then you, you have things like, you know, VPN connections, VPN tunnels. Although I have to say that that's one of those things that can benefit you if you are working somewhere else and wanted to get back to your home network and perhaps from their, to your business enterprise network.

Curtis Franklin (00:55:04):
But many times, I know I have run into the case where I had a very solid enterprise class VPN capability, but my employer was limited to a single VPN client that they would use. And it wasn't the one that I had. So it didn't really help. The big thing though, that you want to do more and more is be able to tap into the threat detection and analysis network of your device, vendor. Most of the big firewall enterprise firewall vendors talk about this in their marketing materials, that they tie together reports from all of their firewalls. They detect new threats quickly. They are tied with all of the global threat network. So they know when new things are developed. They know when new vulnerabilities are discovered and can give you some cover from them before they're patched. So that's a big one. You never want to be the only person looking out for new threats and new vulnerabilities. Being able to tie into a global network puts you miles ahead. Of most of the people out there trying to figure out what's happening in their household.

Louis Maresca (00:56:23):
You bring up a good point. Kurt, I think cheaper brought this up before the PF sense hardware that you can load on there. They bring some of these more complex and advanced functionality, whether it's, you know virtual network capability VPN capability, that kind of thing, to some of these less expensive devices, right? Cheaper.

Brian Chee (00:56:43):
Well, yeah. And PF sense capability wise, I would stack up against a lot of the more expensive commercial firewalls, but there is a difference. It, I think it comes down to scope and speed. How fast are malware signatures implemented because PF sense is using an open source repository. So getting it out to the devices takes longer than say a Cisco or a Sonic wall or someone like that. Also scope, you know, if you are running a PF sense based firewall, you're not gonna be able to easily push policies or changes or updates from a central location. So if you're running a home office where it's only you PF sense might make a lot of good sense for you, but if you're running an enterprise where you're having to push to a thousand remote employees PF sense is going to eat you out house at home on labor, just doing updates and you know, trouble ticket calls.

Brian Chee (00:58:01):
So it's scope and speed. How fast do you get updates? How fast do you get malware, signatures and scope, how much you can do without having to touch each individual unit? It I, I think they're both good. I think they both are valid. One of the things I did wanna talk about a little bit is there are quite a few people out there, quite a few listeners I've been getting emails from you that are saying, well, I have such and such router, and you don't seem to like it very much, but I'm on a fixed income. I'm retired. I, I can't afford to go and buy a, you know, couple thousand dollars firewall. Well, one of the things you can do is keep in mind your, if you retiree, like I am, you're probably not going to be the target of hackers.

Brian Chee (00:58:56):
So you're only needing to deal really with the standard stuff on the net. So one of the things you might want to do is, you know, if you've got a lot of kids, school, age kids school age, kids are really, really bad at security. You might wanna separate the kids off, use a V L so there's an article that we just brought up that goes through. What can you do are VLANs worth it? A virtual local area network means you can segment off the kids or segment off the cameras or segment off the doorbells separate your T gear. You know, there might, you might be using a camera that has a vulnerability, but if it's segmented off there is a smaller chance that the bad guys can pivot. And that's a gonna be a key word. If you have a vulnerability on your local network, there are lots and lots of tools where you can get through the vulnerability and pivot from that vulnerable piece of equipment, say a camera and start attacking other things on your network.

Brian Chee (01:00:11):
Well, if the other things aren't physically on your network, it can't be attacked. Anyway, you can leverage things. You can go and make the less expensive firewalls, more secure. So one of the things we're gonna hopefully get onto the the notes page is I've brought out some different resources, things like the life wire article or Wicker, w I C a R it's an anti malware test. You can actually go to Wicker dot wicker.org and click on. I want to be tested, you know, the, the webpage, and it will go and start probing backwards. How vulnerable are you? Do you have mal do is your malware detection actually working. So that there it is. So that's a cool free tool. There's also another great site from geek flare.com and it has a bunch of different tools listed on how to test your infrastructure on how well it can withstand cyber attacks.

Brian Chee (01:01:25):
So what I used to have to do for the ma for info world magazine, with about a million dollars worth of gear you can do from the comfort of your own home. So I really, really suggest if you want to, you know, if you're worried about this, run some of the tests, see if you can reduce some of the attack footprint on your system and keep in mind if you live in California, there is going to be some new legislation that seems to be making it through your legislative body that is going to require vendors go through a certification process and determine how vulnerable your O T device is nice step in the right direction. Maybe we'll see. I think California's going to be the litmus test for the rest of the nation. We'll see how that works. Anyway, I've been rambling. I, I need to give this back to Lou and we can go and see what else we want. Talk about, sorry guys. <Laugh>

Louis Maresca (01:02:27):
Well, I think, I think you're bringing out some good things here. Like I think there's some, some good things to look for some good, could some good tools to use, to utilize, to determine what your hard word's worth that are up to up to date. I think what I'm actually taking notes here. Cause I think that some of the things that, that you, that I've seen in the past that have really helped is the fact that there there's some level of table stakes that usually comes with a home and business network. One being that the device that you buy has to have, you know, it has to support the modern, you know, network speeds that are out there, the throughput, the number of devices. So you're saying supports the compute power as well as the number amount of memory that you can, that you need.

Louis Maresca (01:03:01):
So it needs to support your devices that you have now, and some breathing room for devices later, as well as being able to support the ability to have a home network and a business network kind of running in tandem. So I think that's really kind of table stakes for people who are working remotely. I, I actually wanted to add to that, that something that Kurt brought out, which is, you know, I don't buy devices that don't have a broad ecosystem ones that, you know, lots of people have been using. Who've talked about it. I'm not talking about reviews, I'm talking about actually U utilizing these devices and the fact that the manufacturer supports them on a continual basis, whether providing firmware automatically or constant security updates new features, that kind of thing that are either provided to you on a, on a, on a a service basis, whether you're paying a small monthly fee for them, or if it's even just provided as part of the hardware.

Louis Maresca (01:03:51):
And I think that's one of the advantages, even as PF senses comes along, cuz they do provide a lot of updates and it's you know, there's the, you know, available to you, whether you go the actual commercial way, which is the net gateway or you go and build your own thing. In fact, I, I was putting in the back channel here that I've seen somebody actually go for just 600, 700 bucks, build their own like super router that has PF sense on it, that, you know, they continually update on their, on their own, but they're able to actually build their own thing just for parts from Amazon. And, and, and so that gives you the ability to have a little bit more control over things. But again, you have to be you have to be managing that yourself. So I think those, those are some of the lists I follow obviously is in making sure that they they're on a they're updated on a continued basis.

Louis Maresca (01:04:35):
Now software is the big thing. And I wanna just talk about that for a second. You know, a lot of these you know, kind of cheaper brands, whether it's the Huawei brands or whatnot that have their devices, they, they, they try to do what some of the other big players are doing. They'll have like mobile app that shows you a lot of things are going, whether it's alerting or, or events that are happening or being able to update your device from there. But the software tends to fall short that it doesn't work and it can't connect. You know, and if you're having a mess network, it's, it's not, it, it doesn't complete the network all the time. So, so, so the software is there. They try to bring out the features, but it's not reliable. And I think that's the, the other thing that kind of gets added to the list for table stakes tape table stakes is that the software is reliable.

Louis Maresca (01:05:17):
It's your device stays up all the time. It doesn't, you don't have to go restart it. You know, the fact that, you know, you are the software that you use to interact with it and get reports on is reliable. And and, and it's continuous. And I think that's another thing that you have to look for and in a device software I've actually sent back thousands of dollars worth of network equipment because of the reliability of the software. And so I, I think that's another thing to add to that list. Anything else you guys wanna add that I've kind of thrown out there or maybe even take away <laugh>?

Curtis Franklin (01:05:51):
Well, the one thing that I would add is that in too many cases, we see people saying they want the capabilities, but on the other hand, they don't wanna spend more than about $79. You know, they, they, you know, and it, it really gets me that you have someone who's going to spend $3,000 on a television and, you know, $5,000 on a sound system and $400 on a blender and things like that. But the piece of equipment that can protect their entire family and the safety of all these other devices, they want to get really cheap on. You don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars, but you can get a good solid device that will protect your network for, you know, couple, 300 bucks. You don't have to spend $10,000. You can spend a few hundred dollars, get something that will protect your home network and do it four years into the future because it will be upgradable and it will be supported by the vendor. So this is not the place to cheap out, you know, go ahead, make the investment and know that it protects all the other investments you're making in technology at your home network.

Brian Chee (01:07:10):
I want to toss out one last thing. Keep in mind, the, the world is changing. The market's changing virtualized desktops, managed desktops is becoming a real product line. You know, it's not as complex as it used to be. You can say, I wanna buy a year's worth. And then at the end of the year, I can walk away from it. Well, one of the things that a managed desktop gives you is the vendors infrastructure is giving us firewalls. It's giving us intrusion, detections, doing all kinds of stuff. It's doing patches for you. So if you are trying to live on a budget, a managed desktop might not be a bad idea. You know, it looks expensive only because you're paying a lot of stuff up front and the company's gotta make money. But look at the total cost of ownership. You don't have to buy an enterprise grade firewall.

Brian Chee (01:08:13):
You don't have to do this. You don't have to do that. Manage desktops nine times outta 10 can be accessed from a really inexpensive Chromebook. So that means you can do it for your kids. You can do it for, you know, everybody in your family. And now maybe you don't care so much for that home firewall that might cost you a lot. There are no standard answer. There's no cookie cat cutter answer. Everybody's life is different. Everybody's home is a little different everybody's needs are different. You need to take a good hard look. I personally tell people, make a needs list, make a wants list. So the needs have to be features that are there. The wants are okay. I'm not going to say no, but gee, it would be really nice if we had this, this and this write it down.

Brian Chee (01:09:08):
Don't just go to a store and buy something because the salesman is, you know, going to sell you whatever's on the shelf. Take a good hard look, you know, sometimes roll your own. Cuz PF sense is open source. You can go and build yourself a PF sense machine, relatively inexpensively, and still get a lot of the protection that you would have in a multiple thousand dollars firewall. But just keep in mind, you also bought into supporting it yourself. So you get what you pay for. I guess that's kind of my bottom line. You get what you pay for.

Louis Maresca (01:09:48):
So it's true. It's true with everything that you you buy nowadays when it comes to tech, at least tech at least I think there's a lot more to talk about here. In fact, you know, I was gonna jump maybe into the some of the anomaly detection that was added just recently to my to my device. But unfortunately that will have to wait till next time, because time flies when you're having fun and we're at the end of that episode, you've done it again. You sat through another hour, the best thing enterprise and it podcast in the universe. I think we proved it today. So definitely tune your podcaster. Towt I wanna thank everyone who makes this show possible, especially to my cohost. That's right. Start with <inaudible> Mr. Curtis, Franklin Curtis. I know you're very, very busy in the next, in the coming weeks. Where can people find you all your work and what's going on?

Curtis Franklin (01:10:36):
Well, there, there are several places they can find me. One of course is at dark reading the slash Omnia tab. I will be writing there. I'm trying to do a little bit more over on LinkedIn. I've done a couple of articles there that have done well. So follow me on LinkedIn. I also have a YouTube channel. I've got a Twitter account, kg, four GW, where I do my very best to point to the other things I'm doing. So follow me on Twitter. And I, as you say, I'm traveling the ones that I know about are Boston in a couple of weeks, and then of course, back out to the desert and I really am looking forward to hearing from, and even meeting members of the TWT riot while I'm out there on the road.

Louis Maresca (01:11:25):
Thank you, Curtis. It's great to hear you, but have you here and great to hear about what you work, what you're working on there? Well, we also have to thank our very well, Mr. Brian Chi cheaper, what's going on for you in the coming weeks and where could people find you?

Brian Chee (01:11:37):
Well, I wanna do a shout out to Mr. Chicken head 21. He was making a comment about, you know, everybody assumes that their anti-virus software will protect them. I have a mantra and my mantra is trust, but test. So because the wicker.org website is free and you can go and test things and it uses what are called simulated loads. They're not real malware, but they have the same kinds of signatures a church test it. Now, one thing I do tell people, if you're going to do this and you're doing it at work, warn your it group, otherwise, if they are monitoring, they are going to freak out because it'll look like an attack. So, but from home test it, you know, is your, is your system updating, you know, are you running a real malware piece or are you running FUD wear test anyway you're welcome to throw me questions.

Brian Chee (01:12:43):
I do a pretty decent job of answering and on Twitter, I am a D V N E T L a B advanced net lab. And that goes back to the days of doing testing for INFR world magazine. When I believe I was the largest lab for INFR world people have been asking me questions about different things. Some I'm actually still getting questions about the old firewall test because so many people have grabbed my scripts and my methodologies. You're also welcome through email at me. I'm sheer spelled C H E E B E RT twit.tv. Or you can throw email@tw.tv and you can hit all the hosts would love to hear from you'd love to hear show ideas. And you people seem to be liking the host round tables. The number of comments have tailored down a little bit, but I think you folks are still happy with them. So we're gonna keep trying to schedule them.

Louis Maresca (01:13:46):
Thank you cheaper. Well, we also have to thank you as well. You're the person who watch drops in each and every week to watch and listen to our show, to get your enterprise. Goodness, we wanna make it easy for you to listen and catch up on your enterprise. And it news to go to our show page right now, Twitter, that TV slash TW there you'll find all the amazing back episodes. Of course, the show notes, coast information, guest information, of course, the links of the stories that we do during the show. But more importantly, next to those videos there you get those helpful subscribe and download links, support the show by getting your audio version, your video version of your choice. Listen on any one of your devices, check out any one of your podcast applications, cuz we're on all of them. So definitely subscribe and support the show.

Louis Maresca (01:14:27):
Plus you may have also heard that's right. We also have club TWI love club, twit it's members only ad free podcast with that bonus twit plus feed. You really can't get anywhere else. It's only $7 a month and there's a lot of great features here. In fact, one of them is the exclusive access to the members only discord channel. You can chat with hosts, producers, separate discussion channels. Plus there's special events on there. Lots of fun stuff on there's definitely check that out. Join club TWI. Be part of the fun. Go to twi.tv/club TWI. Now club twit now offers group cor corporate group plans as well. It's a great way to give your team access to our ad free tech podcast plans start with five members at a discount rate of $6 each per month. And you can add as many seats as you like.

Louis Maresca (01:15:11):
This is a great way for your it department, your developers, your sales team, your tech team, to stay up to date on and have access to all of our podcasts. And just like that. Regular me, regular membership. You can join the TWI discord sense server as well, and also get the access to the TWI plus bonus feed as well. So that's twi.tv/club twit. Now, after you subscribe, you can impress your friends, your family members, your coworkers, with the gift OFW. We talk about a lot of fun tech topics on this show and I guarantee they will find it interesting and fun as well. So definitely subscribe to our podcast. Now I've already subscribed and you're available on Friday 1:30 PM. Pacific time we do this show live that's right. Come see the behind the scenes to be, come see how the pizza's made. Come see all the banter that we do.

Louis Maresca (01:15:56):
All the fun we have here on TWI that's at live.twi.tv. We have a bunch of stream options there. Plus if you're gonna watch the show live, you can also jump into our chat room as well. IRC, our famous IRC channel, IRC TWI TV, the TWI live channel in there. We have a lot of great people in there each and every week people jump in they join, but we also have some new players in there as well. So a lot of great things going on in there. So definitely join the conversation, join the fun we take live questions from there. Lots of discussion points. So be part of that as well. Irc.Tv definitely hit me up twitter.com/luma. Also I'm on LinkedIn Lewis Mosco on LinkedIn hit me up there. I post enterprise tidbits. I great. I have great conversations. In fact, I get a lot of direct messages on Twitter, also on LinkedIn for, for show ideas guests hosts, that kind of thing.

Louis Maresca (01:16:44):
So definitely hit me up there. I love hearing from you guys like sheer says lots of great topics and questions. If we're interested in what I do at my, at Microsoft, you can check out developers.microsoft.com/office that we post all the latest and greatest ways to customize your office solution, whether it's scripts or it's online or it's macros, however you wanna do it. We have it on there. I'm a little, I love talking a little bit about the web adds that we've developed at at Microsoft and they can also be developed by us as well. So definitely check it out there. I wanna thank everyone who makes this show possible, especially to Leo and Lisa. They can do to support these sweet MRI tech each and every week. And we really couldn't do the show without them. So thank you for all your support each and every week.

Louis Maresca (01:17:31):
I also wanna thank all the engineers and staff at twit. Of course I wanna thank Mr. Brian Chi one more time. He's not only our co-host, but he's also our Titleist producer. He does all the show bookings and the plannings for the show and a really good couldn't do the show without him. So thank you cheaper for all your support. And of course, before we sign out, we have to thank our editor, Anthony. He likes us look good after the fact. And of course our TD for today, Mr. An per he's, the famous aunt for Mr. Ann Pruitt. He does an amazing show called hands on photography, which I watch each and every week religiously ant what's going on on hands on photography this week.

Speaker 5 (01:18:05):
Thank you Mr. Lou. Yeah, this week I was able to chat with someone that I knew from a few years back in Charlotte that has basically turned their photography passion into a business. My man, Mr. Michael Wilson, and it's been great just watching his progress and seeing how it's it's legit. It's a legit business form now doing headshot. So go check it out. Twit TV slash hop.

Louis Maresca (01:18:31):
I love hearing about people's skill and how they turn into businesses. So I definitely gonna watch that show. Thank you, Anne, for being here in supporting the show. Well until next time I'm Louis Mosca. Just reminding you, if you want to know what's going on in the enterprise, just keep quiet.

Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
Is that an iPhone in your hand? Wait a second. Is that an apple watch on your wrist? And do I, do I see an iPad sitting there on the table? Oh my goodness. You are the perfect person to be watching iOS today. The show where Rosemary orchard and I mic a Sergeant talk, all things iOS TV OS watch OS home pod OS. It's all the OSS that apple has on offer and we show you how to make the most of those gadgets. Just head to TWI, do.tv/ios to check it out.