This Week in Google 727, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiG This Week in Google. 3 billion users strong. Facebook says, no more news for you Canada. We'll also talk about the move from TV to online advertising. A big gain for both Facebook and YouTube. And it's the end of the line for the incandescent light bulb. All that more coming up next on TWiG

Speaker 2 (00:00:28):
Podcasts you love, from people you trust.

Leo Laporte (00:00:31):
This,

(00:00:37):
This is TWiG This Week in Google. Episode 727 Recorded Wednesday, August 2nd, 2023. Blame it on the Ossobuco. This episode of This Week in Google is brought to you by the Building Cyber Resilience Podcast, a show about tech and security from the perspectives of a data scientist, Dr. Ann Irvin, and career CSO Rich Seon regarding the intersection of data finance and cyber risk management. Search for building cyber resilience on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts and by Pan Optica, reduce the complexities of protecting your workloads and applications in a multi-cloud environment. Pan Optica provides comprehensive cloud workload protection, integrated with a p i security to protect the entire application lifecycle. Learn more about Pan Optica at Pan Optica app.

(00:01:38):
It's time for TWiG this week at Google to show where we cover the latest news from the Google verse. Jeff Jarvis is here. He is the Tao Leonard Tao, professor for journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark graduate School Journalism at the City University of New York. As you would know if you read the New York Times on a religious basis. Hello? Yeah. Jeff. Hello. So good to see you all last week in person. I It was really nice. Happy to be there. You got home your hospitality. I hope you didn't have any trouble navigating. I got over the bridge. A bridge. It was very foggy. Yeah. It was extremely foggy, but that made me happy 'cause I couldn't see the ocean. Yeah. This is an example where phobias can really steer you wrong because bridge, right. You in fact want good visibility. <Laugh>, I know, I know what

Ant Pruitt (00:02:26):
To say. Say I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't say anything. Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:02:28):
That's Ant Pruitt. He is, of course not only a regular here, but the community manager in our club twit community and doing such a great chair job there. Thank you. Your coffee. You decided not to make it about coffee, your photo.

Ant Pruitt (00:02:41):
Yeah. I I pretty much made the photo critique. Anything you want session, whatever the hell you wanted. Did.

Leo Laporte (00:02:46):
Was it you thought the people didn't want to talk about coffee pictures?

Ant Pruitt (00:02:50):
I, I don't know. I I was told that it was a bit confusing for some reason and

Leo Laporte (00:02:54):
Well, because coffee time could just be us talking about photos over coffee.

Ant Pruitt (00:03:00):
That's the whole point of the, the, the phrase is you could take it of a lot of different Ah,

Leo Laporte (00:03:06):
That's why it's intentionally ambiguous. Right?

Ant Pruitt (00:03:08):
Oh, you know, I could have just said, take pictures of your coffee and you know what would've gotten a picture of beans or a picture of

Leo Laporte (00:03:15):
Mugs. Yeah. That would be boring. Yeah. <laugh>. Anyway, <laugh>, it's coming up Friday, 4:00 PM Yes. You also, I notice have, have made it later in the day.

Ant Pruitt (00:03:24):
Yes. This will be after this week in enterprise tech.

Leo Laporte (00:03:27):
I can't do the 9:00 AM one. I really like it. Really? <laugh>. This is, this is a closer to my

Ant Pruitt (00:03:32):
9:00 AM is a little too early for you, sir.

Leo Laporte (00:03:33):
Nice. So if you're a member of the club, join us Friday, August 4th, 4:00 PM Pacific, 7:00 PM Eastern for, that'll be fun. I'm gonna call it Coffee Time with Ant <laugh>. Yeah. We have lots of other events coming up. I'm looking forward to that photo walk too.

Ant Pruitt (00:03:47):
That's gonna a lot of fun. And by the way, speaking of future events, I was going to email Mr. Jarvis and Sles, but I have you here too. I wanna do like a triangulation of you, Mr. Jarvis and Mr. Sss Sure. In December. Sure. We have plenty of warning.

Leo Laporte (00:04:04):
Yeah. Okay. We did, didn't we, Jeff couple of years ago for our twin holiday episode, we did the old guys.

Ant Pruitt (00:04:11):
Yeah, I remember that. For

Leo Laporte (00:04:12):
Twit, it was you, me Gibson. And I think, think remember was Mr. Ss took me a while. No, it's, it's Dr. Searls. It's Dr. S <laugh> doc.

Ant Pruitt (00:04:21):
He's not a doctor. His name is David <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:04:24):
Oh, really? You don't, it's so funny. I knew. I never knew his real name. His

Ant Pruitt (00:04:27):
Name is David.

Leo Laporte (00:04:28):
I just call him Doc's. Doc is Doc. Stacy has a weak Wanna know, know that. Yeah, I know, I know David. No, he's Doc. No, he's doc. He's doc. Yeah. Yeah. You're grumpy. I'm dopey. And he's Doc. And he's Doc.

Ant Pruitt (00:04:40):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:04:40):
<Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (00:04:41):
There. Well, stay tuned. I will, I will be in touch with the three of you with the day.

Leo Laporte (00:04:45):
That'd fun. I'd I'd love to do that. Yeah. Maybe we, we'll make it our holiday special. Yeah. To kill two birds with one stone. Hey, Stacey has a week off. She'll be back next week. But she, she sent us a note saying I had reserved a camping site and it came through. So I'm going, Hey,

Ant Pruitt (00:05:01):
Vacation

Leo Laporte (00:05:01):
Season on. I'm going unexpectedly went through. But Stacey with no, i o t No, I, Stacey with just nature, there's no I o t and Stacey <laugh>. But filling in for Stacey, the wonderful Glen Fleischman, yay, Dave from Glen. He is right now working on Shift Happens. You've been, that's, this is exciting. It's getting close.

Glenn Fleishman (00:05:24):
Oh my gosh. It's such a big book. I just spent two weeks in Maine, about a hundred hours on press with the author, with ine wishy watching the thing come off in pages. So the whole thing is printed now. I mean, I left and I, it actually didn't hit me. I was staying with a friend for a couple days afterwards, and she said, so it's all printed now. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah, it is, it

Leo Laporte (00:05:42):
Was much, it's not bound, it's printed, but

Glenn Fleishman (00:05:45):
It's, it's about the, one of the two volumes is at a bindery in Massachusetts now. I mean, it's like, it's like a war effort. You know? We have all these huge pieces and just seeing the massive, it was 300,000 sheets of paper went into this thing like large, unbelievable, feet by feet sheets.

Jeff Jarvis (00:06:01):
Wow. Leo, if you go to Martian's Mastodon. Okay. He has a whole set of pictures from the event. Oh, that's great. And Glen can annotate them for us.

Glenn Fleishman (00:06:11):
There's, there's a lot of pictures of us frowning at pieces of paper and pointing and looking in the photos of like several people standing around all pointing at a thing and frowning. And there was just a lot of looking at things through loops close up. And anyway, it's wonderful. And I learned so much about offset printing and how it's done today. It's gonna inform all my future projects. So it was, it was exhausting and great.

Jeff Jarvis (00:06:33):
Oh, he has put up a ton of pictures of that. Maybe something you learned. Wow.

Glenn Fleishman (00:06:37):
I learned that well, modern presses, this, the folks who went to a press that's not that old, it's only a few years old, and it prints like a lot of presses called a perfecting press, which means it prints two sides. And so it prints four colors on one side that has this very clever thing that flips the paper very gently and prints the other side with four colors. But it can do that at a rate of up to 13,000 sheets an hour. So the paper's going through this machine even though it's doing eight colors and flipping it in the middle, and in the middle, it's also doing a UV treatment. There's a dryer. So it comes out, the ink is cured and dried and, and it's basically a finish page. It's, and I've seen smaller scale efforts before, but they have this huge, like star Trek console at the front that lets them see all this registration work's going on. What the ink's being delivered. There's a scanner. So they run it through to check that the registration, the colors are all aligning and they have so much dynamic control over this thing. The digital has really crept into this very, very analog process more than I understood, like viscerally, and now I've seen it and touched it. So that's,

Jeff Jarvis (00:07:42):
That's you, you, you delivered what postscript files? Basically a d it became plates. P d f A real old P D F that then became plates. But then in the press, they can adjust all kinds of things.

Glenn Fleishman (00:07:57):
Yeah. They put, the plates are, so you, you start with digital files. You go through proofing stages, but it's all digital or printed out for digital printers. And then they print out these huge metal plates that are exposed by laser in a giant machine, and they put the plates on the press. And then you've kind of, you know, you've glued your, it's the glue between the digital and the analog. And the press plates are then, you know, they put ink on it and you see what comes out. And you kind of adjust things on the fly as you need to.

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:26):
How many sheets do they have to put through before they feel they've got Got it. Make ready enough that it's

Glenn Fleishman (00:08:32):
Good. Hundreds. Hundreds. They run,

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:34):
They a lot of spoilage.

Glenn Fleishman (00:08:35):
Yeah. And then they, they take the sheets, they printed and they run them through for the next called make ready, these early sheets that just are getting the press up to speed, getting things registered. It, it's like a ship. These presses, there's like people at the far end and people at the front, and they're, they have an intercom to talk to the, the person feeding the paper at the rear. Sure. You know, because here's, they have to communicate. No one wants get mangled in the machine.

Leo Laporte (00:08:57):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Here's

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:59):
The best thing. How loud is it?

Glenn Fleishman (00:09:00):
It, it's not super loud. I would say it's actually it doesn't fill that industrially when it's

Leo Laporte (00:09:05):
Running. What press, what is it lithograph? What is it doing? It's

Glenn Fleishman (00:09:07):
A, it's a, it's a offset printing press. So it uses offset lithography is a Plano graphic process. So it's flat and you, when you expose the plate, some areas attract ink and some attract water. The areas you wanna print attract ink. And so as it's, the plates are inserted into these, each of these units prints a different color, and as they roll through, water washes them. And then ink is ladd on, and the ink is rubbed basically by pressure onto a rubber blanket. And the rubber blanket rolls onto the paper where it offsets onto the page. Wow. And that's called

Jeff Jarvis (00:09:39):
Off printing because the, because the plate doesn't touch the paper, the rubber blanket. It's

Glenn Fleishman (00:09:43):
Incredible. And there's like 26 ink rollers that all connect for each of these units to avoid having patterns to avoid harmonics and the ink. It's just every part of it is fractally. Fascinating. to me at least,

Leo Laporte (00:09:55):
<Laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (00:09:57):
Fractally fascinating. Could be a show title. Could be

Leo Laporte (00:10:00):
Very nice. Well, don't, can't

Glenn Fleishman (00:10:03):
Wait. Is it too

Leo Laporte (00:10:03):
Late to, is it too late to order?

Glenn Fleishman (00:10:06):
You can still order copies. We have copies left and they should ship. We're planning on September 1st. Copies will be out the door. I, I wanted to mention that I've, I've checked off one box on my, on my TWiG scorecard, which is I met Mr. Jarvis in Haverhill, Massachusetts. Woo-Hoo. In the flesh. Yeah. so that was a lot of it.

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:26):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:10:26):
Minute.

Glenn Fleishman (00:10:27):
It's a very tall man. Do you know how tall Jeff is? You've seen

Leo Laporte (00:10:29):
Him? Yes.

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:30):
Tall man. We know now

Leo Laporte (00:10:31):
<Laugh>. So I should mention that if you go to shift Happens and, and you go to the project updates, you can see the images. Oh, there it is. Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:41):
They've been a lot easier for you.

Glenn Fleishman (00:10:42):
Oh, he's posted. That's great. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:10:43):
Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (00:10:44):
Fantastic. Yeah. Lovely people at this place. Lovely thing. And I just, I brought back some printed sheets just so I'd have something to look at in the meantime. But, you know, we're gonna have, we're gonna have sample copies hands shortly. Bad. Yeah. Bad gray. We wrote a bad Gray was just so much. So for those of

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:01):
You on audio, if you go to Shift Happens, you'll see the photos we're talking about.

Leo Laporte (00:11:05):
Yeah. Very nice. Very nice.

Glenn Fleishman (00:11:06):
Shift happens. Do site

Leo Laporte (00:11:08):
Shift happens.

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:09):
So that's, that's cutting off the the bleed. Oh, that's for the trim.

Glenn Fleishman (00:11:13):
Yeah. All this stuff,

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:14):
You know, I would love, you know, I would love to have that as wallpaper <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:11:17):
Oh, yeah. Right. So this is the color's, the color test strips that are on the, yeah, all

Glenn Fleishman (00:11:22):
It's the bars. Yeah. And then those are scanned, so they can use a, a, they have a digital process to correct registration. So they scan sheets as they come off. And I mean, it takes like three people to run the press. Like two people could run it. But really there's a third supervisor. And then we had, there's three generations of the family that run this company. The oldest is 90. He still goes in every day. They do

Leo Laporte (00:11:44):
Not use a UNIVAC to control the machines. This is actually a page from the, from the A page <laugh>. You

Glenn Fleishman (00:11:51):
Can see the color shifts in some of this. I dunno, you can see it <crosstalk>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:53):
So if you hold, if you hold there for a minute, Leo, because when we went to the Museum of Printing, you see the old huge scanner, right? A scanner to scan an image. Oh my gosh. Is is as big as your studio at the, at the at the old cabin. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:12:08):
Wow.

Glenn Fleishman (00:12:09):
15 feet long or

Jeff Jarvis (00:12:10):
Something. Yeah, exactly. Insane. And all you do is you get a set color separation. So you get the four colors, and that's, you know, one of the plates for one of the colors going by. And that's how we, you know, move to color printing. And it was an amazing, amazing moment. So people

Leo Laporte (00:12:24):
Might say $150, that's a lot for this book, but first of all, it's several volumes and a slip cover beautifully. It's four color. But I, yeah, I'm thinking this must cost a heck of a lot just to make, just to make it,

Glenn Fleishman (00:12:35):
It was, the unit cost is not low. Let's say the math all penciled out in the end, which is good for for marching. But it was yeah. I mean, it's also, we did it in the US for, not on principle, but because we wanted to be able to do something. Like we wanted to talk in similar time zones and able Yeah. Often this to go on press

Leo Laporte (00:12:54):
To be printed in China or, or, or elsewhere, right.

Glenn Fleishman (00:12:57):
Yeah. And then domestic, like shipping by, you know, freighting these books and shipping them U S P S will be a lot easier. There's just all these all these aspects. But it was a good example. So they weren't inexpensive, but they were, I mean, they were competitive with what we thought the book would be worth. So the retail price reflected the quality. And I'm, I'm pretty happy with

Leo Laporte (00:13:16):
That. I love it.

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:17):
The name of the company.

Glenn Fleishman (00:13:19):
Oh, it's Penn. More lithographic. Anybody's looking for a nice printer up in Maine. They'll ship your work anywhere. Penn more lithographics, not an advertisement. Lovely. Third, three generations of family run the company. And the oldest 90 years old, he comes in for about an hour every day, met him. Wow. Lovely fella's. And the That's cool. Son and grandson are involved.

Leo Laporte (00:13:37):
He's been doing it for run daily operations. Wow. That's really

Glenn Fleishman (00:13:39):
Cool. That's amazing.

Leo Laporte (00:13:40):
Amazing. And I love it that the author went in, you and the author went in to watch this and proof it so that it really does. You know, I mean, you put a lot of care into this. I think that's amazing. A lot.

Glenn Fleishman (00:13:53):
So you look at these photos, you're like, that's one way quality control. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. See, there's the many people standing and staring at

Leo Laporte (00:14:00):
Yeah. A lot of time. <Laugh>. That's awesome.

Glenn Fleishman (00:14:03):
Staring at things. But yeah, it's it's an undertaking. But I think it, I think it'll show,

Leo Laporte (00:14:09):
Show the book's a little smaller than I thought it was gonna be. <Laugh> <laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (00:14:13):
We were delighted by this dum folding dummy, so they can make sure the pages were in the right. Oh, really? Order, yeah. They just so able to guide to make, it's

Leo Laporte (00:14:20):
A little mini book. That's so cool. That fits in the palm of your hand. But this is not intended for,

Glenn Fleishman (00:14:25):
It's not, sadly not the

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:27):
So behind me, I have some, some early printing manuals and getting the right, when you're, when you're doing multiple pages, one on one time, impression to get the right pages, the right, the imposition it's called in the right place, is a really complicated thing. I have a little description in the Gutenberg parenthesis about if just take a piece of paper and I have you fold it and then cut it to give you a sense of what is like,

Leo Laporte (00:14:52):
Wow.

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:53):
Good.

Leo Laporte (00:14:53):
Great. 6,007, 750 units printed, and we're on their way to the binders

Glenn Fleishman (00:15:00):
Printing 6,000, but they have to print 6,750 good sheets because there's gonna be wastage in every stage. So we don't know how, you know, in binding and

Leo Laporte (00:15:10):
More than 10%. Wow.

Glenn Fleishman (00:15:11):
Incredible, incredible technological, physical operation.

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:14):
What did it smell like when

Glenn Fleishman (00:15:16):
It doesn't smell that much. The modern ink sink, really? They, they're dried. It's was super hot. It was in the eighties every day we were there. And they're running a blast furnace at the end to dry the ink when it comes off. Oh. And then it's cured by ultraviolet light, which is kind of a newer thing. So it comes off, it's totally dry. It doesn't really smell that much. It's kind of cool. Got a little new book smell. But

Leo Laporte (00:15:35):
For, for somebody who's a master of the past forms of printing <laugh> to see the latest state of the art printing. Oh my gosh. It's cool. So

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:44):
Exciting. Quite jealous. I would've loved to have geeked out on that.

Glenn Fleishman (00:15:46):
Yeah. Next time there'll be future books, I'm sure.

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:49):
Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:15:50):
Well, let's get to the thrilled to have you, Glen. I can't wait for my copy of Shift Happens. And congratulate marching for getting it out. And you, you of course, were instrumental in having it happen and the Kickstarter and all that. I think it's really great. Very pleased on your behalf. Now, meanwhile, in Canada, <laugh> <laugh>, oh boy, you ain't gonna be getting no more news. Meta is already blocking news in Canada. This is over that Bill C 18, which is passed and his law. And in the response to the law requiring internet giants like Meta and Google to pay news publishers, meta has said, that's it. No more news for you. The

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:34):
Online No soup

Leo Laporte (00:16:35):
For you, an online news act. Canadian government immediately denounced the move as irresponsible <laugh>. What

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:43):
The hell? Wait a minute. No,

Leo Laporte (00:16:45):
That's not, no irresponsible was the bill. Right. The, the consequences are inevitable. So there

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:51):
Was no one in these meetings that

Leo Laporte (00:16:53):
Said, you know what, what

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:54):
Could really go wrong here if we proposed this bill? Oh, they were told, you know, it, that they were told, including by publishers you know, Jeff lg, we talked on the show before, tried to warn them. Lots of others, tried to warn them. Google Lord knows, tried to warn them correct testimony by Kent Walker and Richard Ingris before the Senate Committee. And they were warned. And now it's gonna hurt like hell. But I think what's gonna happen is the, the minister of whatever in charge of this stuff is trying to back up now and say, well, we'll fix this in regulation <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:17:30):
If they put,

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:30):
We'll see a cap. I think, I think Facebook's news is gone for good. I think Facebook is gonna say, hallelujah.

Leo Laporte (00:17:36):
Yeah. They don't wanna do this.

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:38):
Yeah. That's all we want. Nothing controversial, so just gets us in trouble. Lemme

Leo Laporte (00:17:42):
Get this, get us some of that. If I, because I don't have a Facebook account, but if I said I wanted to share a link to a New York Times article about Jeff, my friend Jeff Jarvis on Facebook, could I not do that?

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:52):
I guess not.

Leo Laporte (00:17:53):
Wow.

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:54):
And, and, and let's not forget that most of the links that put it differently. All news organizations linked to themselves. Yep. And they can't do

Leo Laporte (00:18:02):
That. Yeah. This is, this is what Rachel Kern met is head of public policy in Canada, said, news outlets voluntarily share content on Facebook and Instagram to expand their audiences and help their bottom line. In contrast, we know the people using our platforms don't come to us for news. <Laugh>. Meanwhile, Canadian Heritage Minister, it's, it's fitting that the Heritage Minister would be the one. Yeah. Meanwhile, who's complaining about all this? You know, back in the day, Canadian Heritage Manager, minister Pascal San San Orange, who's in charge of the government's dealings with Meta, said, this is irresponsible. They would rather block their users from accessing good quality and local news instead of paying their fair share to news organizations. And I guess that's where the disconnect happens, right? What's their fair share? What do you mean?

Jeff Jarvis (00:18:49):
Well, here's, here's the beauty of this. Here's the, here's the great irony of this, right? They were, the platforms were told, your links are worthless. Only our content is worthwhile. Now that the links are gone, oh, there scream of bloody murder. Because the links were very valuable

Leo Laporte (00:19:02):
To them. Yeah. We are going, Jeff,

Glenn Fleishman (00:19:04):
This is much more extensive than the Australian thing, right? This is, I, it's so the Canada didn't, Canada didn't wanna use the Australian model, the amended model in Australia. They did use it after they tried something similar. So they already knew what could happen. They'd seen the outcome, and the Canadian government said, we're gonna go ahead with this thing that already failed in a, at a country with a maybe similar aspect as ours.

Jeff Jarvis (00:19:23):
They went further than Australia. They did use Australia as a model. But in Australia, the weird thing is, Glen, that there was a kind of a trigger. And, and, and the trigger didn't get triggered so that the money that Facebook and Google paid to publishers in Australia is voluntary. They were not forced into negotiation. Huh? They were not forced into anything. And so in Canada it was different. It was, no, you must negotiate. And if you don't, we were going to send you to arbitration and you're gonna pay through the nose. And so this time, the only option that the platforms had was to say, well, no, then we're not gonna have news and there's nothing to negotiate. It's not only they just want a, a free

Leo Laporte (00:20:04):
Ride.

Jeff Jarvis (00:20:06):
Oh yeah. Basically. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:20:06):
Yeah. Just a free ride. Oh, yeah. Well, their argument is, and I think that everybody on this panel agrees it's not right, but their argument some is we're standing up against the tech giants. They're using our content for free. We want them to pay for it. They're driving new traffic. Yeah. <laugh> what's, yeah. And, and what they miss, the point they miss is these are private businesses that can make the business choice, which they have not mm-hmm. <Affirmative> not to drive that traffic. Because we don't wanna pay for it. Right. they're not, actually, it's funny 'cause Google and Meta aren't really disputing that, that might have value. They're just saying, well, we don't care that much, so we just won't do it anymore. Right. And now what? Now what do you do? Fish to fry? The South Orange said they would rather block their users from, oh, I said that we are gonna keep standing our ground. After all, if the government can't stand up for Canadians against tech giants, who will, this is a very misguided quick quixotic stand if you ask me.

Glenn Fleishman (00:21:02):
Well, isn't this the whole push pull about where the, I mean, it's both about where the value lies, but it's sort of about where the money goes. And I, I know publishers have been angry for decades since, you know, since the rise of, let's say, Craigslist even our Frank Craig Newman that any money that they deem as belonging to them as a media company is shifted to some online source. And, and sometimes I think it's justified when they, when there's a, or I shouldn't say justified rather, but their right to feel like, oh, we, you know something happened and the value we're bringing, like having articles is being used by somebody else. They're taking the text, they're previewing it, they're doing something that reduces our ability to, you know, bring in revenue. But I feel like there's always a, a sense of like, well, we're obliged to receive that revenue because we do it On the flip side, you know, how did Twitter and and Facebook and other companies rise? Like, where does their advertising revenue come from? At one point it was because people went there to read some parts of news or discuss news. I, I feel they sucked a lot of value, a lot of advertising dollars off of newspapers in particular. But I don't know that, I don't know, you can, you know, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. But is there a way to produce something that's fair that doesn't simply say, well, you just give billions back to media companies? Well, what

Jeff Jarvis (00:22:17):
They were trying to do, what Google was trying to do was to say, you know, we're doing showcase. We're giving grants. They were trying to say a few things. One, we need a cap on this. You can't say that there's some formula out there that we don't know and we're gonna have to agree to, and we don't know. Or the end of it is, we'll pay some money to news for the, for the benefit of news. We're a good citizen. We'll do that. Yeah. The second thing Google said to them was government shouldn't really be involved in this. Why don't you set up an independent organization panel that would decide who's in or who's out? 'cause That's a huge issue, right? Because the largest for a newspaper company in Canada is owned by a hedge controlled by a hedge fund American hedge fund.

(00:22:59):
So we know what's gonna happen. The money's gonna go to the American hedge fund's. Bottom line, it's fungible. It's not gonna support journalism. The Toronto Star is now owned by investors. It's gonna go to the investors. And a lot of little guys are gonna get left out. And a lot of native publications are gonna get left out. And so why don't you have a separate organization that can adjudicate all this? And the government said, no, no, no, no to both. We're gonna do it our way. Well now yeah, I think they're gonna try to back up and write regulation around this law that gets around the worst of it. Find a way to cap and come back and Google. I would, I'm gonna predict, we'll probably come back to the table. 'cause You know, news has some benefit to search customers there. Yep. But Facebook, I'll bet is never coming back. Facebook's gonna say, thank you very much for letting us prove how much we don't need you.

Leo Laporte (00:23:46):
Meta has said that links according to Reuters, to news articles, make up less than 3% of the content on its users' feeds and say it lacks economic value. So you're right. It's, it may be a value to Google, but it isn't a value to Facebook. It's just a pain. And, and, and the

Jeff Jarvis (00:24:00):
Value to the Google is limited. The value to Google, I think is between four and 6% of, of, of stuff. And so most of it is not. And you know, there's other places you can go to find news. You can go find, you want people to go straight to the, to the, to your homepage. Fine.

Ant Pruitt (00:24:13):
Let 'em go. Go. There wasn't a survey that basically said that most, most people aren't getting their news from social media, be it Facebook or what have you. They're they're actually going to the source more so than,

Jeff Jarvis (00:24:24):
No, they're still going to the social media, but they're getting linked to mm-hmm. <Affirmative> the sources then. And, and, and so Jeff lg, who we talked about two weeks ago said he will immediately lose 50% of his traffic for village media

Ant Pruitt (00:24:37):
Because, because it's shared on Facebook first. Yeah. That's what you're saying. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:24:42):
Facebook and Twitter. And this

Glenn Fleishman (00:24:43):
Sounds like a fighting a, a battle of years ago where, you know, page views were the thing. And now most publications want subscribers. And you'd think they'd want to do anything that would produce a stickiness for someone to pay that fee. I mean, are page views worth that much?

Jeff Jarvis (00:24:58):
Glen, how, see, that's what I love about you is your <laugh> your, your, your innocent view of the world. Yes. Oh, no, you're absolutely right. But they also want Bhe. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same exact conversation going around around AI and copyright right now, Barry Diller and Company are out there saying, we want billions from these AI companies. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, even though there are doctrines of fair use. And even though the AI is transformative, and even though there's no necessarily clear copyright case, they see like, it's like the cartoon animals with dollar signs in their, in their, in their eyes going round and round and round and round and round. So yes, they want subscribers. Yes. They wanna build relationships. Y no, they don't know how to, and still they want I see Briber money, blackmail money.

Leo Laporte (00:25:45):
It's not if, I mean, obviously if, if Google or Facebook published the entire article so that you didn't have to read it anywhere, you could read the whole thing on Google or Facebook. Yeah, that's problem. There would be some legitimate concern about that. That's,

Jeff Jarvis (00:25:58):
Oh, they, they pay for that. They license it in in, in new showcase case

Leo Laporte (00:26:01):
Now. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:26:02):
They license

Leo Laporte (00:26:03):
It's snippet issue. It's, it's a little snippet. And it's really not enough to keep you from going to the site. Unless all, well, here's the

Jeff Jarvis (00:26:10):
Irony, Leo. I did test years past where actually the longer the snippet, even unto a full article is the best ad and has the highest

Leo Laporte (00:26:20):
Clickthrough. Sure. Well, I think you know what the next, you go after social networks like X <laugh> or, or threads and say,

Jeff Jarvis (00:26:30):
Do we agree not to say that ever

Leo Laporte (00:26:31):
Again? No, I don't want to say Twitter, because that's a copyright of ours. We're just gonna say X <laugh>. I'm thrilled.

Jeff Jarvis (00:26:38):
Are you kidding? I'm

Leo Laporte (00:26:39):
Thrilled. <Laugh>. It's x. Let, there's another one. Let him, he, he wanted it. Let him stew <laugh>. Let him stew in it. <Laugh>. Why is Lisa looking at me through the porthole? Because she's a, I guess she agrees. <Laugh>. I thought your mic is about to get cut in what you probably read. Anne was an interesting science article that came out this week that found that in fact, social media does not really polarize people. They were, they were studying Instagram and Facebook to study the effects of social media on the attitudes and behavior of users during the election. Jeff, you read these actual Yeah, I did. I originated papers. Can you summarize them? Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:27:26):
They're, there's, this is a project run, little quick, little background, if I may. So Talia Strout and Josh Tucker Talia is at UT Austin. And Josh Tucker's at N Y U are, are brilliant researchers in this. They've been working in this area. There was a project called social Science one, which Facebook was gonna share data with researchers. It was a disaster 'cause Facebook couldn't figure out how to do it by protecting privacy. Some of the data turned out to be wrong. It was a mess. This is a reset that came back. And 17 researchers worked with meta receiving no money from meta absolute independence. But meta researchers also worked with them. They couldn't get the raw data because of privacy reasons, which, you know, we can debate that around, around Cambridge Analytica precedents here. They're going to do a total of 12 papers.

(00:28:15):
These are the first four papers that came out. And so they found, for example, that people say, well, it's the algorithm that's causing all of this mess. Right? So they gave people for three months who by the way, were consented to this test. They weren't just Guinea pigs. They gave people for three months as a, as a group purely reverse crime. The thing that Leo has been screaming he wants, well, results were that they actually used it less 'cause it wasn't as good a feed to them mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it had no impact whatsoever on their political views or differences. Well, if it's not the algorithm, then it's this damn sharing thing. It's making things go viral. That's what's wrong. <Laugh>. Yep. So they tested showing people nothing shared from their friends, also no impact at all. And in, I believe in both cases, they saw more disinformation than before.

(00:29:10):
Now there's a lot of ifs and ands and, and, and, and in this research, and there were two other papers that were interesting as well. But generally the reflexive knee jerk responses, it must be the algorithm. Kill the algorithm. Well, let's test it. Let's do some real research. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and the research says not what you think. Same with research over the years about filter bubbles not being real. Same with about, about echo chambers not being real. And now the algorithm and virality aren't necessarily as bad. The problem remains that we are screwed up as human beings, especially people.

Leo Laporte (00:29:42):
The science.org quotes one of the researchers at political scientists at Dartmouth, Brendan Nyan saying, no one is saying, no one is saying this means social media has no negative effects. Right? Right, right. But these three little experiments interventions, they did. N none of them measurably changed attitudes. So I think that tells us something. So

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:02):
It's not the fix. In other words, you think, oh, well, we understand how to fix all this. Well, no, it doesn't fix

Leo Laporte (00:30:06):
Anything. The results of these experiments do not show that the platforms are not the problem double negative, but you get what it, but they do show they're not the solution. So that's important. This isn't saying no, people aren't influenced by the platforms, but we can't modify the algorithm in such a way that it makes people not be in <laugh> less influenced.

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:29):
Well, that also says, you know, the, the problem is, the, the research we don't have is to have a, and this is, I've talked to Josh Tucker about this a lot, is we need the data to get somebody's full sense of their full media exposure. What stupid podcasts do they watch? Yeah. What stupid websites do they go?

Leo Laporte (00:30:45):
I think you could argue 24, you could tell what person, what your political slant would be from which 24 hour news channel you watch. Yeah, true. And you

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:54):
Bring that to Facebook and you share that. Right. The other thing that they did was they looked at, at things that were fact-check and sorry folks, but the, it's, it's asymmetrical as hell that the disinformation is shared on. Guess what? The Right,

Leo Laporte (00:31:11):
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:11):
They bring it to the platform. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:13):
I mean, it's, it's very puzzling to me when you, when you see the polls and you see for instance, Donald Trump matching Joe Biden, even, even some of the people polled say, even though he's being accused of crimes and maybe even is a criminal, we're still gonna vote for him. And it really, it makes you, for people on the left like me to go, what the heck? But it, it really is just a different worldview. When you see Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoonists X-ing on X. Oh, yeah. Well, the big news story, this, this whole Donald Trump indictment is not, is just to hide. The fact that we've got some testimony on the Hunter Biden story is like, that's a different, to me, somebody on my, as end of the political spectrum is a different u you're not in the same universe as me. And I'm sure they feel the same way about us, but don't think

Glenn Fleishman (00:32:05):
That's way about Facebook

Leo Laporte (00:32:07):
Doesn't have, or, or none. Twitter doesn't have that doesn't much, but it's impact. But it's so

Glenn Fleishman (00:32:12):
Transactional, right? It's, you know, Benghazi stopped being a problem when they stop talking about Benghazi, the server, you know, all the, every wave of this is done specifically. And it's, it's tailored for this. So we, we are maybe confused why as high information people, let's pretend we are who read a lot of news and try to be fair about things. We're confused when low information folks take the point of view of people who have changed their stories. The caravan coming up from Mexico suddenly disappeared when the election was over, et cetera. Like, all these things that have happened at different times that are, that are, you know, cobbled together, we don't see a centrist or left wing media being able either to either doing it or being able to pull it off and have the saturation that Right. Winging well,

Leo Laporte (00:32:57):
But I'm also trying really hard not to call people low information and trying to say

Glenn Fleishman (00:33:02):
I don't think it's an insult. I think it's, it's, we have different, if you don't, well,

Leo Laporte (00:33:05):
I mean, that implies like, I know what's true and you don't. Right. And while I believe that, I think it's, to be fair, we'll just say we disagree. Oh God.

Glenn Fleishman (00:33:14):
That's the more information you have. Don't you feel you have a smaller grasp on what's actually true sometimes, though? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I think low information, I think low information, and maybe I'm not getting the academic term here, right, are people who avoid seeking additional information that might change their worldview. They, they typically are single sourced or they use whatever, and they take that as a way to sort it out for themselves. Sense

Leo Laporte (00:33:35):
People are, it makes sense because I'm not seeing opposing points of view.

Glenn Fleishman (00:33:38):
Yeah. And high information you've take in lots of viewpoints, but that can be you know, dramatically more agitating and confusing. And there are plenty of people who are high information. Right. folks, it's just that there's be stressed

Leo Laporte (00:33:49):
Out

Glenn Fleishman (00:33:50):
Because they've got so much information coming to

Leo Laporte (00:33:52):
'Em. Yeah, exactly. Well, so that's Dunning Kruger effect, which is, yeah. The, the, the more you know, the less you know, and the less you know, the more you know <laugh>. Right.

Glenn Fleishman (00:34:00):
The more you're con more confident you are about it, the less you know, the more confident you are, you know, the most. And the people who know the most are least confident that they know the most.

Leo Laporte (00:34:08):
Right? Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (00:34:09):
Leo, can you do me a

Leo Laporte (00:34:10):
Favor and go to

Glenn Fleishman (00:34:11):
On

Leo Laporte (00:34:11):
X decoding Fox News? Actually, I want to do this first because it's related. X is suing a group. 'cause We were just talking about this science re article about research done on Facebook. X is actually suing a group that researched hate speech on the platform. Because Mr Free speech, Mr Free speech for all Mr. Absolute free speech, they, they say by investigating that you, you are, you created a scare campaign that drift away advertisers. I don't even think there's, there're saying in this lawsuit, oh, there isn't any hate speech. I think they're just saying, we just don't want you to access our content. X thinks that the, all of that stuff on X is theirs, not ours. 'cause It, they have the platform and as a result, they're actually saying it's a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which is really an inappropriate stretch. The, this is, they're suing the center for countering digital hate. The founder and chief executive said the legal threat shows that Elon Musk will stop at nothing to silence anyone who criticizes him for his own decisions and actions. I presume the court will throw this out because but maybe they'll say, well, you're not allowed to access X anymore to do the research, which is, I'm sure what Elon's been trying to do all along is, but

Glenn Fleishman (00:35:35):
I don't, what, I don't know what

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:36):
Precedent that LinkedIn case has in this case.

Leo Laporte (00:35:39):
That was the scraping, the scraper case. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:42):
Right, right. Scraping. I don't know if, if

Leo Laporte (00:35:44):
That's the case. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway I only mentioned that because this science article talks about studies that were done, I presume with the cooperation of meta, right? No.

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:55):
So yeah, so meta meta cooperated greatly. They devoted a staff to it, $20 million of cost. Now it was the, the whole project had a repertoire a watchdog over it, an independent scholar who wrote a long piece in science about his views of it. And in the end, he said it was independence with permission. So he was complaining about it. Well, okay. Point well taken. Meta did not interfere with the research questions that researchers asked, but the researchers couldn't see again, the raw data. Why Cambridge Analytica, why G D P R? Mm-Hmm. So they can't give the raw user data to the researchers. Now what's necessary, I think there is for government to intervene. Yes. I said it. Government to intervene. Oh boy. To give Safe Harbor to a Facebook for research and say for research, you must handle, handle with the data. Yeah. We will say how it happens, but you are,

Leo Laporte (00:36:49):
And Yout liable get trouble for Yeah. You're, yeah. Right. Meanwhile mean, so those are contra, I'm just saying those are contrasting points of view. Yes. Twitter, they're will sue you for trying to, well, trying to do it. Twitter

Jeff Jarvis (00:36:58):
Was, but when, when it was still Twitter, Twitter was the best at this. They used

Leo Laporte (00:37:03):
To hand stuff over. Researchers were, yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:04):
Yeah. Now the APAs gone and, and, and expensive and so on. Twitter was, was the, the kinda the only mechanism we had to judge how social media worked. And of course, it was his own odd little corner of social media.

Leo Laporte (00:37:16):
So that's it. That was our only Twitter story of the week. So thank you very much. <Laugh>, can

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:20):
We, we mention my, my graduate? Can I, can I plug my graduate? Sure. The Codeine Fox News woman named Juliette Jetski is doing incredible work. I have been saying for a long time that I, I was on M S N BBC Air when they still had me on saying, I wish you would do a feature called we watch Fox News, so you don't have to. So that's what Juliet does. And I helped fund it from my center at the school to get going. And she was the one person out there who quoted Greg Gutfeld obnoxious statement about the Holocaust, such that the White House responded to it. She's getting huge attention right now. She's brave as can be because of course they go after her regularly. So she has a sub and YouTube and X. But look at Dakota and Fox News. 'cause 'cause The point of it is we need to look and see what that part of America is seeing and not see. Right. The morning after the indictments of the former president, I turned on Fox News and what were they talking about? One guess Hunter Biden. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:38:24):
I turned on Gutfeld the other night when the Trump indictment came down. I guess that was last night. It feels like a year ago. Boy,

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:31):
Doesn't it ever

Leo Laporte (00:38:32):
<Laugh>? And yeah, they were talking about hunter Biden and not at all about the Trump indictment. Gutfeld is really an interesting, it's an entertainment show. It's supposed to be funny and humorous, and he's actually fairly funny. But from the Fox point of view, it's very, it's kind of an interesting thing. <Laugh> Yes. That's

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:52):
What you, it's a phenomenon that also needs

Leo Laporte (00:38:54):
Study on our cable. It's right next to cnn. So Lisa will say, well, let's just see what they're saying. Yeah. on the, on the other side there. And I think that's another way to, to do it. But you can also look up to coding Fox News. She has a podcast. She has a sub stack. Sounds like a good does in the podcast. Does she play clips?

Jeff Jarvis (00:39:12):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And on, on the video she does, she does clips quite a bit. Yeah. She, she put up the, the, the gut filled clip, and then, then he accused her of, of, of oh, selective editors fa her, so she put up more.

Leo Laporte (00:39:24):
Oh yeah, let's get the context. Oh, it's the same. Let's take a little break. We have more to talk about Jeff Jarvis, Ant Pruitt and our special guest star. Yay. Clem Fleischman. Great to have you. We we are gonna give you the traditional Sag AFTRA background actor fee of $148 for this appearance. So, thank you, <laugh>. Thank you for, well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:39:44):
I, I've actually, this is just me from previous

Leo Laporte (00:39:47):
Appearance. Yeah, we did digitize you. So in I'm, you get nothing. You get nothing else. <Laugh> our show today, brought to you by another great podcast, the Building Cyber Resilience Podcast. The world is hyperconnected like never before. This advanced technology driven landscape is creating smarter businesses to better serve customers. But as you know, this territory also comes with threats. The hosts fantastic hosts, by the way, Dr. Anne Irvin, she's a Chief Data scientist and VP of Product Management at Resilience, and her co-host, rich Cyrus and is Chief Risk Officer. They talk about the positive outcomes of developing risk management and utilizing data science across industries to create a smarter business. I, data science, to me is fascinating and to tie it into the fields of risk management and cybersecurity really is an interesting kind of synergy. They meet with the top experts and innovators in these fields to discuss the changing cyber landscape.

(00:40:49):
It's constantly evolving risks. They talk about how businesses are beating the bad guys how businesses are managing risk and crisis without impacting the value to their customers. The Building Cyber Resilience team answers these questions and more, they just did one that you might be interested in on AI will chat. G P t replace the underwriter. They talked to the chief strategist of AI and machine learning for Get Ready for this, the US Department of Defense, the d o D as well as the c r O of Symmetry Systems. They discuss how AI is being used for cyber attacks, how it affects defense and defensive roles and security. Really interesting stuff. Learn how you can build a cyber resilient organization building Cyber Resilience. Search it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll put a link in our show notes too at tweet tv slash TWiG.

(00:41:47):
So you could just click that. I think a really great subject and a very well done podcast, thank you to the Building Cyber Resilience Podcast for supporting our podcast This Week in Google. Cyber Resilience is something that our friend Craig Numark Caress deeply about. Yeah, it's, I was unfamiliar with the term, it's I Charlie, listen in the podcast, and that makes a lot of sense. Very interest cybersecurity, because you can't say let's build a brittle wall. You have to be resilient. You know, it can't be, it has to, you know, it, it's like a, a tree that bends in the wind instead of a solid brick wall that just blows right over. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. We got some results from Google the quarterly results. Ooh. Yeah. One of the most interesting one to me was how well YouTube did in advertising.

(00:42:35):
Did we talk about that last week? Did we All right. We talked about some, well, and let me just throw this in. This is an article that came out yesterday from the information Sahil Patel. Oh, okay. So this is, this is a good follow-up. Yeah. The follow-up is Hollywood's Pain is YouTube's advertising gain, because Google's been pushing very hard into live sports. You know, they got the N F L games starting in September on YouTube tv Top executives, several ad agencies told the information they're gonna spend 10 to 20% more with YouTube this fall than they did last year. Now, you couple that with a, a, a statistic that traditional TV networks are saying advertising is down 15%. It looks like a good amount of that money is moving away from traditional television and into YouTube. So that's, I guess, very good news.

(00:43:28):
For YouTube, there's a $70 billion a year market television advertising has been you know, dominant forever. But it does lack, and we've talked a little bit about this, it lacks the information about the audience that digital platforms can offer. Youtube Patel Rights had already made some in inroads into the TV ad market in recent years, helped by the growing consumption of YouTube videos on tv. Nearly 45% of YouTube viewing in the US now occurs on TV screens. Almost half. I'm fine with that. Do you watch YouTube on TV all the time. In the Hardhead too? All the time. And I'm not just talking about YouTube tv, I'm talking about YouTube. No, general YouTube. Yeah. General YouTube. Yeah. I was always like, I'd come home, this is years ago, and Henry and his friends would be sitting around and there'd be YouTube on the tv, and they would listen to music that way. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> among other things all the time. Yeah. Wonderful. A of people listen to podcasts via YouTube. Yeah. Which is wild. I still don't quite get that, but I video think it's the convenience. Yeah,

Glenn Fleishman (00:44:31):
Right. But the convenience of it, I think that's Just

Ant Pruitt (00:44:33):
Play it in the background. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (00:44:34):
Yeah. It's their everything app. So you just use YouTube. Why do I need a podcast app to search or subscribe there?

Ant Pruitt (00:44:39):
Is it safe to say a lot of these, these numbers are coming from the fact that TVs aren't dumb anymore? It is hard to find a dumb tv. Everybody's got some form of television that's connected to the internet, even though not everybody has super high speed internet. People still have these smart TVs out there, and of course, they see something like YouTube right there on a 50 inch screen. Why not click on

Leo Laporte (00:45:03):
It? Well, and let's not, let's not forget that the strike, but the Screen Actors Guild in the Writers' Guild of America is gonna hobble traditional television. Yep. Meanwhile, doesn't hurt YouTube at all. Right. These people aren't union workers.

Ant Pruitt (00:45:15):
Right.

Leo Laporte (00:45:16):
Mr. Beast is gonna still crank out the content. Yep.

Glenn Fleishman (00:45:20):
I'd like to lobotomize my television. Frankly, I don't wanna smart tv. I don't wanna,

Ant Pruitt (00:45:25):
Mine is not even dumb enough to the internet. I use Xbox One as my smart TV and it works totally fine. Dway.

Jeff Jarvis (00:45:34):
And are you suggesting that, that the Smart TV's accelerated cord cutting?

Ant Pruitt (00:45:39):
I think so. Ironically,

Leo Laporte (00:45:40):
It just, because you were already connected to the internet, it

Ant Pruitt (00:45:42):
Just made it so easy. And then you saw, wait a minute, I can save a hundred dollars a month, and that's a lot of money. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So why not just cut it off and move on to just watching the streaming services, because their content is still pretty good for now.

Leo Laporte (00:45:58):
By the way, Facebook, you watch. Go ahead.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:01):
Just quick, curious about your habits and the family. Do you watch YouTube on the big TV together, or does everybody grab, kind of grab their time?

Ant Pruitt (00:46:11):
Most of the time we sort of segregate to, to different, you know, they, they watch it in their room. I watch it in the living room. And, and, you know, they're generally just watching whatever creator that they enjoy. Right. When we're watch it together, it's most of the time with me because I tend to bounce around on a lot of different things. You know, we'll watch some docs and watch hot ones and just some weird things to laugh at <laugh>, you know, and, and it's just entertainment, you know, and it's, right.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:38):
One more question.

Ant Pruitt (00:46:39):
And I pay for premium so I don't get the ads wrong. Right. The

Leo Laporte (00:46:42):
Ads.

Glenn Fleishman (00:46:42):
Oh, yeah. You know, on the fence with that. Yep.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:45):
So men are accused of being horrible with road controls, and women just wanna, you know, slap their hands down. <Laugh> does Queen, does Queen Pruitt sit there and tell you to Yes. Switch around on YouTube, or, Nope. Or there, are you good with YouTube

Ant Pruitt (00:47:00):
Or you rubber nuts? There's no discussion whatsoever because the one TV that I do watch, no one comes and touched that remote except me because it's, it's, it's sort of seen as that's, that's, that's tv.

Leo Laporte (00:47:13):
So Dad had an armchair in the, back in the day with his butt in print. Now he's got a TV that goes with it. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:47:18):
Yeah. That's, that's exactly

Leo Laporte (00:47:19):
What goes on.

Ant Pruitt (00:47:20):
And then other

Leo Laporte (00:47:22):
Television,

Ant Pruitt (00:47:23):
<Laugh> and Queen, could you

Leo Laporte (00:47:24):
Read that article about the Zenith clicker? The Miracle is the Zenith clicker. What, what?

Glenn Fleishman (00:47:28):
Incredible. Sorry. I don't mean to get us off track, but that was amazing. Do

Leo Laporte (00:47:31):
You remember that? It was yeah. Some of us not are old enough to remember. So it was a box with only four buttons. Yeah. And the buttons were really limited. One was to turn the volume up, one was to turn the volume down. One was to, you could only go up on channels. Right, right. I can't remember what was the fourth one? Was it on on it

Glenn Fleishman (00:47:48):
On hour? It might have been on off. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:47:49):
So it didn't use a battery. It wasn't radio, it wasn't line of sight. How do you think it worked? It was

Glenn Fleishman (00:47:56):
All

Leo Laporte (00:47:56):
Wired. Nope.

Glenn Fleishman (00:47:57):
Nope. No. this is a, i this is

Leo Laporte (00:48:01):
A little puzzle,

Glenn Fleishman (00:48:02):
A parent

Leo Laporte (00:48:04):
Word it had inside. So you'd press it and you remember Glenn would get dude, like a little,

Glenn Fleishman (00:48:10):
Yeah. It made a weird little clicking

Leo Laporte (00:48:11):
Sound. That's, that's where the clicking came from. The name clicker. The clicker. Yeah. it, you would press it and inside the box there were little metal chimes. It

Glenn Fleishman (00:48:24):
Was like a tuning fork kind of thing. Or like a Yeah, like a's it would

Leo Laporte (00:48:28):
Play in poly inau audible tune. It was such a high frequency ultra. It was ultrasonic.

Glenn Fleishman (00:48:33):
Ultrasonic polyphonic. There's the episode title that's not real <laugh>. No, for sure. That's not real. It's TV Real. Received it. The TV received it and acted on it mechanically. Dude. Incredible. So there were solenoid, not solenoids, but there were oh, I've forgotten the term. It's in the article. There was a, there was a solid state circuitry that when it received it, it would actually produce a, on

Leo Laporte (00:48:54):
The tv,

Glenn Fleishman (00:48:54):
A physical, because it was

Leo Laporte (00:48:55):
Powered, but incredible. Didn't have to be. Wow. By pressing a button, you set off a spring loaded hammer that struck a solid aluminum rod in the device, which rung out at an ultrasonic frequency.

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:07):
Oh my God.

Leo Laporte (00:49:07):
Each button had a different length rod. So a different tone. And the TV was able to decode that. There was a microphone in the TV and,

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:14):
And, and to our ear, when you push the button, it did click. Yeah. Yeah. But,

Leo Laporte (00:49:19):
But it was more like a

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:20):
Dogs would start going No, <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:49:22):
Ultra. I did not know. I don't think, I mean, it wasn't widely known what was going on. It was just magic on

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:27):
On. That's crazy. I'm sorry to Yeah, but it was, that's, that's as smart as a TV. I wanted, I could hear ultrasonic four ultrasonic commands. <Laugh>, gimme that. That's all I want. It had. Red wants his Sylvania back. <Laugh> <laugh> maybe upgrade to a Zenith.

Leo Laporte (00:49:43):
Wow. Wait a minute. Here's a, here actually they have video. Let see if my audio's on here. Let's see the

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:48):
Zenith

Leo Laporte (00:49:48):
Color. You can hear it.

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:49):
Incredible, incredible technology. There it is. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:49:53):
There it is. That

Glenn Fleishman (00:49:54):
Sounds like, that sounds like a stapler, like a toy. You get outta big lots,

Leo Laporte (00:49:59):
But it's playing a tone that you can't hear on a little aluminum rod.

Glenn Fleishman (00:50:04):
Dude, that's

Leo Laporte (00:50:05):
Crazy. G e c

Glenn Fleishman (00:50:07):
Amazing.

Leo Laporte (00:50:08):
And the the actual buttons, I was wrong. There was channel goes down, channel goes up, volume mutes, and then off and on. So you could, oh, I see. You could change the channel. You couldn't No. Volume. Change the volume. You can only mute it.

Glenn Fleishman (00:50:24):
I had a TV in that era. My family, we had a tv. We didn't have a lot of money. Sometimes the color would go out. We had to hit the side of it and the color came back in. <Laugh>. Yeah. Not, not making this up.

Jeff Jarvis (00:50:33):
Yeah. They used to sell. I remember getting in trouble with my father when the first colored TV arrived in our house. If you, if you played with the dials, which of course was fun, right? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:50:42):
Everybody's green. You know,

Jeff Jarvis (00:50:44):
It was like doing, doing this on me, you know, <laugh>, right? And you do that, and it was fun to do. And then you, oh no, the TV's not aligned anymore. And look what you've done. Oh, everyone looks like blue. He's all blue. He's all blue. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:51:01):
Remote controls used to play back. Ultrasonic. Says, grandma, sure, grandma, let's get you to bed.

Glenn Fleishman (00:51:07):
That's amazing.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:08):
<Laugh>. I love

Glenn Fleishman (00:51:09):
It. Very good.

Leo Laporte (00:51:10):
Anyway, that was a little side, a little

Glenn Fleishman (00:51:12):
Sideline. Let's, let's get back to the future. That's what I'm here

Leo Laporte (00:51:14):
For. Facebook. Facebook ad Revenue. It's quarterly results came out this week up 12%. Everybody remember Facebook was saying, oh, Apple's

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:23):
Gonna kill us. Who's died? Who's gonna,

Glenn Fleishman (00:51:25):
Yeah. Never be able to find ad revenue.

Leo Laporte (00:51:28):
12%. this is from a next in media, a sub stack. Clearly a good number of Facebook's 10 million advertisers are finding the platform to be effective. The company says it's due to an investment in ai. Oh, here we go. Oh, I'm not sure if I trust Facebook since they said Apple was killing it, and they're up 10%. But Reels is doing really well, right? They

Glenn Fleishman (00:51:53):
Were forced to innovate, right? They were, they had something taken away that they thought was easy, and they made a huge profit off, and they got lazy. And this, they have some challenge now, and apparently they rose to some of it, at least on the revenue side. You gotta give points until we find out if there were overstating results, which is or not, not financial. I don't wanna accuse them of that. No. Over overstating. Click through and financial

Leo Laporte (00:52:11):
From use, use impressions. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (00:52:15):
Pivot to

Leo Laporte (00:52:16):
Clickers. I think TikTok reels, Facebook, Google. These are all threats to the mainstream television. And I wish I could say podcasting, but no. That we <laugh> we're not in that list. A good article that I wanted people to take a look at from i p.org, the United States Privacy Digest, A View from DC Ad Tech is built on a privacy fault line. Change is coming for digital advertising, challenging our long-term experiment in ubiquitous personalization. This could mean the end of millions of dollars of marketplace value. The author Coun Zweifel Keegan, right? Writes, or it could mean innovative, privacy centric adaptations for advertising technology. He's talking about the kind of, the, the the tension between people who want our personal data to stay personal, right? And and the demand from advertisers to get more information. And of course, United States privacy laws haven't really yet cracked down on data brokers and, and other things. Yeah. wait, you know, because

Glenn Fleishman (00:53:25):
Apple's got a feature. Apple's got a feature coming in. The new operating systems, an update to Safari that's coming this fall that it blocks user identifi identifiable fingerprinting and tracking, starting with, it's an advanced feature. It only is enabled for private browsing, and it essentially suppresses all U R L based link tracking. So all those UTM underscore codes mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So if you're in private browsing mode, it won't use those. But you can change it as a user and change it from pri private browsing to all. And you can clip all link based tracking. And Apple has cracked down. And over the years, every version of Safari just about has had an increased reduction in tracking. The, the app tracking was, you know, app wide across all of iOS and and iPad oss. But this is Safari. Increasingly you know, as other as Google's trying to do, its runaround effort there, work around effort apple just keeps saying, well, if you're gonna play those games, we're gonna just keep ratcheting it down. 'cause We don't make very much money off advertising. And we make money off saying we are selling privacy. So,

Ant Pruitt (00:54:28):
Mr. Fleischman, that's only for u t m links, not something like how what we use for our sponsors, you know, it'll

Glenn Fleishman (00:54:35):
Be depends, right? So they said they're using it's Facebook, u t m and some other popular links, but Apple is not fully disclosing at this point what they're gonna block. So I expect they will con, you know, evolve patterns that they use to recognize. So over time, there could be more and more. But again, it's only initially by default, users will get it only when they're using private browsing. Okay. As a way to reduce user identifiability when they're specifically signaling they want to be anonymous. Okay. But it's the kind of thing that Apple could roll out to the everybody side, you know, as an option. Like, Hey, do you wanna have no tracking of any of your clicks to anywhere?

Leo Laporte (00:55:10):
We did this, we did talk last week about the web integrity, A p i, which is stealth proposal from Google to really building fingerprinting into, into Chrome. And this is actually relevant to this from article, from the International Association of Privacy Professionals, because he says, each day the targeted advertising infrastructure is inch inching close to collapse. Those who build and maintain the ad tech metropolis now face a decision shore up defenses around their strategic interests with slight tweaks. That's kind of what Google's doing. And creative legal theories buying themselves as much time as possible or rebuild before the crash. He says targeted advertising is on the way out. Not, not just in individuals like, like you and me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> run ad blockers and try as much as we can to defeat it. But to governments all over the world who are now really investigating it in the EU and elsewhere,

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:05):
Did you see what Meta is offering to do?

Leo Laporte (00:56:07):
No.

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:08):
So they say that they're going to seek for Europe, they're gonna seek consent for highly targeted ads. It's line 1 0 4.

Leo Laporte (00:56:17):
Yeah. No, we talked about that. They basically undermines everything Google and Facebook do. It's like, if a, if a, if a user can say, no, I don't wanna be targeted. The problem, really, I don't think it's necessarily that Google wants to do this. I think advertisers demand it. I know this is our experience. We don't want to track anybody mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But we, but

Glenn Fleishman (00:56:37):
Advertisers saying, show us where we're making our money.

Leo Laporte (00:56:40):
Yeah. We won't, if we won't get the ad buys because we can't compete with Google and Facebook. We don't, you know, we give them as little information as possible. Right. And it really is privacy protective, I believe. But they demand it. And, and honestly, they want more and more. He writes Patel rights moving away from today's data-driven ad tech architecture will require coordinated effort on multiple fronts. Redesigning architectures of consumer choice, bringing to market new privacy enhancing technologies, standardizing contractual arrangements between market participants. But he says, we've gotta do this. 'cause It's ha it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And he talks about the I A B and it's multi-state privacy agreement trying to standardize the legal conversation. That's not gonna happen. You've got too many constituencies. The Senate Commerce Committee has two new kids online safety acts, cssa. Oh. Which is a terrible bill. But this is, you know, this is because people want privacy. Right. I think there's also,

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:42):
Because of you get ready an moral panic around it. It's,

Glenn Fleishman (00:57:44):
It's <laugh>. I think there's oh,

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:48):
<Laugh>. I got a bad feeling about this. <Laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (00:57:52):
That's I think there are 10 states now that have California was that's right. First for the, that's right. There's nine others. I was just looking it up literally this morning for unrelated reason. And some of the laws won't go into effect until 2022 or 2024 to 2026. But I believe it's four or five states have laws in effect. You know, Montana, Utah, Texas, Virginia. These are not necessarily, this is not a blue red State issue necessarily. The, it's more about how the legislatures in those states you know, who's trying to prevent this and, and where they're where the lobbyists are and where the consumer activist groups are.

Leo Laporte (00:58:27):
So this is, I mean, I A P P is a privacy advocacy group. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And this is them saying, you know something's gonna, something's gotta give. I gave the wrong byline. It's Cobos wife Keegan, not Patel. That was a previous article. I think

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:42):
I might've been on a board of advisors there, but I can't

Leo Laporte (00:58:44):
Remember. Yeah. I mean, it's a good group. And I hope they're right. I do think there is this tension between advertisers who wanna know more and more companies who are giving them more and more, and, and we, the users who want them to know less and less

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:59):
Well, and, and media cannot eat by subscriber bread alone,

Leo Laporte (00:59:05):
Right? Yeah. I mean's advertising Absolutely. A conversation. Now, actually, that's one of the things he says is don't, don't conflate the two. That just because you can't have targeted as advertising doesn't mean you can't have ads supported media. In fact, a lot of, I think we've had this conversation now on security, now we had it on Windows Weekly. I don't think there's a lot of evidence that you do have to have targeted advertising for advertising to work. And that's just, we

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:32):
Need research on that. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:59:34):
I think that's the advertisers. But

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:35):
You, nobody wants to argue with the person who has the checkbook.

Leo Laporte (00:59:38):
Right. And if they're demanding it. Right. He says some claim that the death of targeted advertising is equivalent to the death of ad supported fallacy. That of, or sorry, ad supported internet <laugh>. That is a fallacy. Like that <laugh>, I think the ad supported fallacy is, is maybe a slip of fray. Freudian slip ad value is not, he says intrinsically tied to the extraction of personal data. That's, I think the fundamental question is it advertisers think it is.

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:06):
There needs to be some mechanism for relevance and efficacy. Right. Don't show me ads for pregnancy clothes, because I'm not pregnant. I'm not a woman. And you're gonna waste your money. So, and, and, and if you do, if we just go back to a pure billboard world, then you're showing me a lot of junk. I mean, the web's getting junked

Leo Laporte (01:00:29):
On more day. Yeah. But, but it's not my duty to make sure advertisers don't waste. Well, I'm, as an end user, not as a podcast host. But it's not <laugh>, it's not my duty to make sure advertisers don't waste their money. That's not an, an end user's obligation. You

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:43):
May, I relevance matters.

Leo Laporte (01:00:46):
I don't seet to me, I mean, we were talking on windows Weekly. I see. For some reason Instagram's decided I need t-shirts for fat men. And so I get a lot of ads for T-shirts.

Glenn Fleishman (01:00:56):
I just got those too. What's going on? How

Leo Laporte (01:00:58):
Do they know <laugh>?

Glenn Fleishman (01:01:00):
What are they trying to

Leo Laporte (01:01:01):
Tell us? They just

Glenn Fleishman (01:01:02):
Started showing up. I'm, I

Leo Laporte (01:01:03):
Think that's actu Yes. Okay. So that's targeted. And I, no offense, Glen, but I think both of us probably should wear those.

Glenn Fleishman (01:01:12):
Yeah. I guess I need some of those

Leo Laporte (01:01:13):
Shirts. So, but

Glenn Fleishman (01:01:14):
Don't we, do we want advertising though? I mean, this is actually a fundamental question. I'm,

Leo Laporte (01:01:18):
That's bad advertising. 'cause Even though it's perfectly targeted,

Glenn Fleishman (01:01:22):
But the, you know, this is apple's it's creepy privacy or it's a private relay. It's feature, they, they offer for their sub their paid subscribers to iCloud iCloud Plus it has this interesting, like fuzziness and some of the was it open D n ss, some of the D n Ss public d n s providers working on this, is to push out an IP address that is quasi geo located. So it tells you they're, you're in the advertiser would know you're in the country or you're in a region mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, which could be useful without saying, I, you know, I live at 1, 2, 3, any place street in any town, U s a And I, I actually kind of want, I would be less offended by advertising if it were less, less offensive. Like those sort ads. But also, but targeted to me. I mean, I think that's the problem is most advertising. But that's still

Leo Laporte (01:02:09):
Targeted to

Ant Pruitt (01:02:09):
You though, right? If it, if it gets it right, then what's, what's the problem with that?

Glenn Fleishman (01:02:14):
Well, if it says, I don't want them to know so much about me, I always feel it's a victory when YouTube gives me ads are obviously wrong. Okay. I feel like I'm doing something right in my interactions, because they aren't giving me targeted ads. But I don't mind getting ads for things that I actually am interested in. And, you know, we're in capitalism, advertising is a part of it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'm part of an advertising economy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, if I see an ad that's good. That's okay. I, but I'm mostly offended by the ads that are delivered to me. They're mostly that are too, because they're seeking

Leo Laporte (01:02:40):
Is

Glenn Fleishman (01:02:41):
What you're saying? They're, oh, no. They're seeking attention. Like my family, we, like, we stopped watching. We stopped really watching cable or broadcast tv, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago, and just kind of did some cable channels that didn't have avids or muted them, or we're watching streaming and whatever. So my kids grew up without ads. And it's funny to watch them interact with advertising. 'cause They basically treat it like an interactive medium where they're just continuously talking back to the ad. If they see one

Leo Laporte (01:03:07):
<Laugh>

Glenn Fleishman (01:03:08):
And, and they're so critical of it, and we watch ads, sometimes we'll be watching something. Well, this is a broadcast thing, or it was taped from, you know, I taped it off the air and it'll be like, oh my God, let's watch these ads because it's so hard for them to get attention now. They're like screaming. They're showing incomprehensible images they've learned from YouTube. So something is deeply broken. And targeting certainly didn't solve that, right?

Leo Laporte (01:03:31):
No,

Glenn Fleishman (01:03:33):
It

Leo Laporte (01:03:33):
Didn't. All right. I really can't do an ad right now. Can I can't, well, I wanna do an ad. I can't <laugh>. So,

Glenn Fleishman (01:03:42):
Lisa, Lisa's back at the portal window. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:03:46):
We'll, pivot. I think, I think Joe made an appropriate poster here. <Laugh>. It's not my job to make sure advertisers aren't wasting their money. Oh, <laugh>. Wait.

Glenn Fleishman (01:03:55):
No, but listen, I'm gonna defend Leo. I'm gonna defend you to yourself, which is, this is the whole point. People find Affinity Media, they like this program, they come to it. Yes. And you give them things that people who people like this sort of thing will probably like this sort of thing. Right? you, you know, you wisely avoided doing crypto advertising, even though you knew people watching this show might like some of it, and you made the right call there. But but you know, it's, it's if you were suddenly advertising Rogan in every episode, it might become a little you know. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:04:24):
We did do I'm sorry,

Glenn Fleishman (01:04:25):
The next sponsor's Rogan is We did

Leo Laporte (01:04:27):
Do no, we did do manscaping for a while. <Laugh>. Yep. I remember that. That's,

Glenn Fleishman (01:04:32):
I think that's within

Leo Laporte (01:04:34):
Parameters. Yeah. And I think we had a ed we did app for a while. Yep. We sure did Roman. So that's nothing wrong with that. Not against them. Well, you

Glenn Fleishman (01:04:43):
Can see I'm not a ro game customer, so I

Leo Laporte (01:04:45):
Don't Hey, some really good news. The family of hen Henrietta Lacks has settled a lawsuit over the use of her cell line. She, in the fifties, 1951 a biotech company somehow got a hold. Actually, doc doctors at Johns Hopkins extracted cervical cells. They were treating her cancer that a physician at the hospital noticed that Henrietta lacks cells reproduced at a very high rate and started re you know, actually cultivating them to use for medical research without telling her or her family. They are called halo cells. And perhaps you've seen the read the book about all of this. They've been used to treat to, to create covid vaccines the polio vaccine to test toxins, drugs, and cancer treatments. They even went to space. But her family never got compensation for the use of her cells. They sued in 2021. There was a book called The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. And many of you I know have read they have now settled the lawsuit with Thermo Fisher Scientific, which is the biotech company that commercialized the cell line on her 103rd birthday or what would've been our same birthday as a matter of fact. So no details as is often the case with these kinds of settlements. Mm-Hmm. No details on what the settlement was. But I, I hope they got a nice, healthy check for the use of the Hay law. Well, the

Ant Pruitt (01:06:22):
Lawyer folks, I notice they say whenever there's a settlement, that means neither side of the coin is happy. So this, it must be good.

Leo Laporte (01:06:31):
Yeah. You're suppo having been involved in this at one point, you're supposed to say they give you the language, the our, our dispute was settled to the mutual satisfaction of both parties there.

Ant Pruitt (01:06:42):
Yeah. That, yeah. That's it. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:06:45):
Mutual dissatisfaction of both diss.

Ant Pruitt (01:06:47):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:06:48):
In my case, I think we are satisfied, but yeah, they don't, you know, it's just the way they do that. And I pre I'm gonna presume that Yeah. That the settlement was

Ant Pruitt (01:06:58):
Good on 'em a favor, and I'm glad something was done.

Leo Laporte (01:07:00):
Yeah. This was really an injustice that had been done many years ago. It is reparations of assort. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's exactly the way to put it. Yeah. Uber made money, honey. No. Wait, what? Yes. What the hell? <Laugh>? I'm very confused. <Laugh> an operating profit of $326 million. It's first ever. It's the first quarter Uber has ever made. That seems a

Ant Pruitt (01:07:28):
Little light though, right?

Leo Laporte (01:07:29):
Made money. Hey, it's, it's, Hey, hey, hey. Hundreds of millions more than nothing.

Ant Pruitt (01:07:34):
No, but all things considered it. Wouldn't

Leo Laporte (01:07:37):
That be? Well, they did have 9.2 billion in revenue. Oh. But making money is a good thing. Okay. although earlier today, wired magazine published an interview with Uber's new c e o Dara Koshi. Sashi, who probably takes some credit for turning the company around. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, the author told Koro, it's hard to say his name. Koro Sa Koro. How do you say it, Jeff? Go ahead. Give it to me. I don't even know. Lights Shahi. I think Koro, Shahi Shahi Koro Shahi. The author told the c e o that he took a three mile Uber ride and it cost him 50 bucks. Koal Shahi said, oh my God, <laugh>. And this is in fact how Uber has has started to make profit. I don't know if you've noticed, but Uber rides have gotten a lot more expensive. Oh,

Ant Pruitt (01:08:30):
Yeah. I haven't.

Glenn Fleishman (01:08:32):
Oh goodness. I

Ant Pruitt (01:08:32):
Haven't used them since that previous c e o and never really thought to

Leo Laporte (01:08:36):
Go back. Travis

Ant Pruitt (01:08:37):
Kanick Kanick. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:08:38):
It's a lot easier to say, bro,

Glenn Fleishman (01:08:39):
Bro, of bro

Leo Laporte (01:08:40):
Town. And he was the

Ant Pruitt (01:08:41):
Bro. But I, I, I just never really had a reason to go back and hearing 300 mil, $300 million, just, I don't know, it just seems low to me for a company that's got that many

Leo Laporte (01:08:52):
Anything

Ant Pruitt (01:08:53):
Is independent contractors, you know, but Yeah. And they get they money.

Glenn Fleishman (01:08:58):
They were predicted to have a model that was, and I mean, I was one of the people predicting it that would never, never make money. Ever. Yeah. Yeah. So the fact that they've done something, unless it, it's, you know, one time whatever. 'cause They, because I already know that I, I actually, I commend the fact if they're actually, you know, this is that big issue of trying to what is it? Ification, right? The Ry Rio. Oh, yeah. I, it's a great term. Right? And it comes in, and, and with Uber, it was, they just taxis. Everyone hated taxis. In most cities. Most people hated most taxi experiences with few exceptions. So Uber said, we have something better, and we're gonna fund it so massively that we can destroy this terrible industry you don't like. Or something more predictable. And then of course, the industry's destroyed, and now they raise prices. You're like, oh, well, the experience is still better on Uber than the average. I mean, we all took

Ant Pruitt (01:09:42):
Taxis, and I guess they're doing something right in the past. People say, take an Uber. Even if they're using a service like Lyft it's true. So, I guess

Leo Laporte (01:09:52):
<Crosstalk> Cory, by the way, has a, a new Kickstarter, a new book, the internet con. Yeah. How to Seize the Means of Computation. It does, it's actually kind of the sequel to his whole and ification story. So that's so

Glenn Fleishman (01:10:06):
Fun to say. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:10:07):
<Laugh>. Well,

Glenn Fleishman (01:10:08):
This is for the audio book. He won't do it on Amazon because Amazon requires, oh,

Leo Laporte (01:10:12):
This is to raise money to, to do the audio book. Yeah. That's, ah, that's great. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (01:10:17):
SSO is the publisher of the book book.

Leo Laporte (01:10:19):
Awesome.

Glenn Fleishman (01:10:20):
We, we've had offers, we've had people ask you if we're gonna do audio book if shit happens. By the way, it won't be a 70,000 hour book, but Sure. For his book, A little shorter.

Leo Laporte (01:10:28):
Verso publishes the actual book September 5th, and Corey's raising money for the audio book. 'cause He refuses to go through Audible. 'cause He doesn't like D r m Corey and his co-author of his previous book choke Point Capitalism, Rebecca Giblin will be on twit. They're gonna do a twit take over October 20th. Oh. So, oh, wow. Yeah. I decided Corey is so good, and he's so eloquent, and it's very hard when Corey's on to get a word in edgewise. <Laugh>. Oh yeah. He's so good. Because you

Ant Pruitt (01:10:57):
Don't wanna stop him. Right.

Glenn Fleishman (01:10:59):
It's a

Leo Laporte (01:10:59):
Train. So I decided

Glenn Fleishman (01:11:00):
Dinner once with Corey and two friends who were Sci-fi fans, and who knew his work. And I do not believe they said more than three words, the whole dinner. And they were okay with that. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:11:09):
Yeah. You just wanna sit and listen. Yeah. Wow. So I decided best way to have Corey on Twit would be to have him on with his co-author <laugh>. And we'll just do that. They can, they can work it out between, and I'll just sit back and, and enjoy it. Yeah. That's, I, I'll be here to bring you coffee and snacks during those three hours. Be fun. This Sunday,

Glenn Fleishman (01:11:25):
Enjoyable person. I

Leo Laporte (01:11:26):
Love Cory Deeply. Well, he's been on Twit so many times, even back in the early days. He's been on Twit for more than 18 years. Mike Masnick will be on next week on Twit, along with Yanko Records. Mike

Jeff Jarvis (01:11:37):
Masnick, major media figure.

Leo Laporte (01:11:39):
Did you see the article?

Glenn Fleishman (01:11:41):
Nir

Leo Laporte (01:11:41):
Hill wrote about him?

Glenn Fleishman (01:11:42):
The little piece, little puff piece about our friend Mike. Wonderful. I gave him a hard time being like, puff Wonderful. Did they not let you outside? He is like, wow. There seemed to be limited opportunities to take photos outside, but besides, yeah. I mean, the photos are good, but I'm like, they're, they're leading up against the, you know, in the office. Like, come on, get this man. Better

Leo Laporte (01:12:00):
Photos. Yeah. Yeah. This, this is like, we got three minutes to take the pictures.

Glenn Fleishman (01:12:06):
Let's just put a big tree in the background. Put a

Leo Laporte (01:12:07):
Big tree and let's do it. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:09):
Well, they want him to look like a geek, you know? I

Glenn Fleishman (01:12:11):
Know, I know. I just think it's he's fantastic. It's still bad.

Leo Laporte (01:12:14):
Cash's a great story on him. Yeah. He'll give him a really hard time about the about the

Glenn Fleishman (01:12:18):
Piece that's of Feather in his guy. He deserves this attention. He's so, oh, does he? I wouldn't say he is unheralded, but I loved seeing him get out to a broader audience. 'cause He's been so smart and so Right. And also let, let's say, not necessarily humble, he knows how good he is, but he he admits what he is wrong. He, you know, he revises his opinions publicly. And that's a great thing.

Leo Laporte (01:12:38):
It's funny you, I mentioned Cory, Dr. O and Mike Masek in the same breath. And I do, in my mind, kind of think of them as equally intellectual heavyweights, fascinating speakers, and more than welcome guests on a show. So, a couple of people

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:49):
Coming, Mike said on Tech Dirt that that he got a call that, that cashier being a good reporter called Lots of People. And one, somebody called and said, the New York Times has called Snooping Round about you, <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:13:00):
They were worried it was a hit piece. They said they're gonna do a hit piece on you. It was not a hit piece, needless to say. Not at at all. Yeah. It was ex it was quite

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:08):
Well deserved. And, you know, I think it's so important now. We see the same, you know, Tristan Harris and Roger McNamee and on and on and on. We see the same people get, get quoted all the time. Yeah. Just somebody who does the real research. And Mike's an amazing amalgam 'cause he's not at a university, but he's a scholar and he does papers. And his paper protocols, platforms was extremely influential, including to Jack Dorsey. We have Blue Sky because of it. Mike is a journalist and a scholar at the same time. A gentleman.

Leo Laporte (01:13:43):
Yeah. And as

Glenn Fleishman (01:13:44):
This in that breath is Chris Ian and Miss Chris Ian because he went into government and he can't talk publicly. So Ron or SIO rather from Oregon, the Center of Oregon, who was praising Mike Masnick, this article, I think Chris Deen is still working for him. Yeah, think so. But it means we lose his voice. But he's involved in public policy, which is, which is fantastic. That

Leo Laporte (01:14:05):
Happens, you know we had Matt cuts on the show a lot, then he went to work for the government and no time. He's quite busy now. He's retired, by the way. And he, we can't get him on the show. He's, oh, he retired. Well, he retired from the government. I don't know what he's doing, but he, we can't get him on the show. He's in Canada,

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:20):
Isn't he? He's married now, I think.

Leo Laporte (01:14:21):
Yeah. He's, he's got a life. And as you know, well

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:24):
Imagine that a

Leo Laporte (01:14:25):
Life, it doesn't go with being on any of our shows. Let's take a little break. Lots more to come. Great panelists. Lovely to have you Glen, always indeed. Like seeing you, having you on, and I guess now the shift happens is, I mean, are you kind of done doing stuff for it, or

Glenn Fleishman (01:14:42):
No, we gotta get several thousand books into people's hands. Fortunately, I'm not labeling myself or anything <laugh>, we're not that insane. But it's it's 60,000 pounds of books we had printed. Wow. So we have to get them. You're

Leo Laporte (01:14:58):
Hand carrying them to each subscriber, I presume, <laugh>. That was an

Glenn Fleishman (01:15:01):
Extra, that was his premium level. As we we show up at your house and we throw it through

Leo Laporte (01:15:05):
The window. Honey Ed McMahons here with a big check. Oh, no, wait a minute. It's Glenn Fleischman with a big book, <laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:12):
Who's, who's doing the fulfillment, Glenn. How's that, that

Glenn Fleishman (01:15:15):
Happen? Our printer is doing domestic fulfillment. Oh, nice. And international fulfillment to be handled by another warehouse. We're still settling on. We think we have the right people, and we have to, so we have to freight like 20,000 pounds of books to those people to do the international. What

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:27):
Proportion of your, of your that's crazy. Audience was international.

Glenn Fleishman (01:15:32):
About 30 something percent. Wow. Impressive. Given that it's almost 50 bucks to ship the book overseas. Well, maybe about that. It's overseas shipping is or non-US shipping now is just outrageous. It's it's so expensive for everybody. So but strangely, it's cheaper to ship stuff from most countries to us than it is for us to ship to most countries. So, I don't know how that works. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:55):
Wonder. So Blackwells, I buy books from Blackwells all the time. 'cause I can buy British books when they come out. They also sell American books at a discount. I wonder how they do it with the British books. I I guess they must just block drop ship a whole bunch over and then ship 'em from

Glenn Fleishman (01:16:09):
Here. I think that's it is, I think they stick 'em on a, on a fast boat or on a plane, on a cargo plane at low rates to fill up space. The excitement of logistics, I mean, come on. Isn't, thank

Leo Laporte (01:16:20):
You for joining us on this week in logistics. <Laugh> enjoy

Glenn Fleishman (01:16:25):
This

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:25):
Conversation. What do you think about yellow going bankrupt? Wow. Yellow is orange.

Leo Laporte (01:16:30):
So there's a, I read a good article about this. I think it was a C N B C yellow is a particular kind of trucker. They don't, they are kind of short haul truckers. And they don't fill the truck. They, they're, they put a pallet on and they deliver it, and they go back, get another pallet, as opposed to long-haul truckers that fill the truck. And, and it's a, there's a very hard to get a job with the short haul truckers, because people want the jobs. They want to come home at night every night. And the Longhorn truckers have a huge turnover because it's such a hard job. You're driving, driving, driving. You sleep in the back of the truck and, you know, it's not an ideal job. So this is, these are a lot, I think they said 30,000 jobs that are gonna be very hard for those people to get new jobs.

(01:17:13):
'cause There's just not a lot of turnover in the, in this particular part of trucking. Meanwhile the teamsters did make a deal with U p s or u p s made a deal with the Teamsters. Yeah. And the u p s will continue to deliver all of my Amazon goodies from now on, which is good. Let's take a break. Our show brought to you today by Pan Optica in the rapidly evolving landscape of cloud security, Cisco Pan Optica is at the forefront, revolutionizing the way you manage your microservices and your workloads. With a unified and simplified approach to managing the security of cloud native applications over the entire lifecycle, pan Optica simplifies cloud native security by reducing tools, vendors, and complexity by meticulously, meticulously evaluating them for security threats and vulnerabilities. Pan Optica ensures your applications remain secure and resilient. Pan Optica detects security vulnerabilities on the go in development, testing, and production environments, including any exploits and open source software.

(01:18:20):
It also protects against known vulnerabilities in container images and configuration drift, all while providing runtime policy-based remediation as Cisco's comprehensive cloud application security solution. Pan Optica ensures seamless scalability across clusters and multi-cloud environments. It offers a unified view through a simplified dashboard experience, reducing operational complexity, and fostering collaboration among developers, SREs and SecOps teams Take charge of your cloud security and address security issues across your application stack faster. And with precision, embrace Pan Optica as your trusted partner in securing APIs, serverless functions, containers, and Kubernetes environments, allowing you to transform the way you protect your valuable assets. Learn more about Pan optica@panoptica.app. Pan Optica app. We thank him so much for supporting This Week in Google. Welcome Pan Optica. The light bulb <laugh>, did it go off in your head? It's yes. <Laugh> no more. I have an an L e d light bulb in my head from now on. <Laugh> as of yesterday, it is now illegal to sell incandescent light bulbs in the United States. Now, you may say, wait a minute. I thought that happened years ago. Well, it did. Congress passed a bill, I think in 2017. Donald Trump overruled it, but the Biden administration brought it back. And as of yesterday, you can only buy energy efficient LEDs, or I guess C F L light bulbs. No more incandescent or halogen incandescent light bulbs.

Glenn Fleishman (01:20:11):
Edison

Ant Pruitt (01:20:12):
Is calling, I don't like this.

Glenn Fleishman (01:20:13):
It's, see, Edison, the Edison parenthesis. There's your next book, <laugh>. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:20:20):
Good

Leo Laporte (01:20:20):
Call. You don't like it. Y you like your incandescence. Well, you're, you're in the light.

Ant Pruitt (01:20:25):
Well, the thing is, I don't like this being like right now. Let's, let's put this in place January 1st or something like that, because I get that I have some privilege and yeah, I can go and buy a five. The $7 l e d bulb. Oh, they're

Leo Laporte (01:20:42):
Cheaper. Leds are now a 99 cents. They're the same. Cost is

Ant Pruitt (01:20:45):
Condit. So they've finally gone down. Oh yeah. So as long as they were not, oh,

Leo Laporte (01:20:49):
Yeah. Okay. I think that might've been one of Thete es stop. You know, this was supposed to happen in 2014. Okay. Yeah. But

Ant Pruitt (01:20:56):
It has, I quit looking.

Leo Laporte (01:20:57):
Yeah. it's been a year now that manufacturers and retailers have known that the department of Energy would start enforcing the law, suing companies to sell conditions. Oh my gosh. Lights. I

Glenn Fleishman (01:21:07):
Had no idea they were so inexpensive. 'cause I haven't had to buy any since, like five or seven years ago when I replaced.

Ant Pruitt (01:21:12):
That's what I'm saying. I was like, I didn't know because <laugh>

Glenn Fleishman (01:21:14):
No idea actually.

Ant Pruitt (01:21:15):
You know, but I have some privilege there,

Leo Laporte (01:21:17):
So. Yeah. Well, and the other thing to remember is when you buy l e d light bulbs to get the 2,700 K or less get warmer ones. Ooh. 'cause there are a lot of blue ones that are not good. But the more modern ones here are, you know, buck, they're about a buck each. Here's Sylvania makes l e d light bulbs for a dollar 35 each.

Glenn Fleishman (01:21:39):
A 24 pack for 26. This is

Leo Laporte (01:21:41):
Amazing. A dollar 12. I,

Glenn Fleishman (01:21:43):
Yeah. Count me. Count me in Mr. Pruitt. I'm in the same camp. I'm like that's all right. I thought, I mean, when I bought them years ago, I was thought,

Leo Laporte (01:21:49):
Well, well, they were a hundred bucks. When my first l d light bulb was a hundred bucks and I got it from,

Glenn Fleishman (01:21:54):
Bought the most expensive bulbs

Leo Laporte (01:21:55):
Possible. I got, I got the first ones. Bob Crane of Sea Crane said he held it up. He said, someday all bulbs will be like this. But I said, but it's $99. He said, yeah, but you never replace it. Now when I, I have l e D everywhere. Yeah. And nowadays I love it. I go up on the ladder, I put it in, I say, honey, I'll never have to put another bulb in this socket. <Laugh> is the

Glenn Fleishman (01:22:18):
Livermore light bulb still on? You know

Leo Laporte (01:22:20):
What that Yeah. The firehouse light bulb, I think it is.

Ant Pruitt (01:22:22):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have to let Hardhead know, because he's been wanting LEDs for his room. L e d bulbs for his room. So what he's done as an alternate is put L e d strips

Glenn Fleishman (01:22:33):
Oh yeah. Up

Ant Pruitt (01:22:34):
Around his room. But

Leo Laporte (01:22:35):
The bulbs are cheap now. The

Ant Pruitt (01:22:36):
Bulbs are

Leo Laporte (01:22:37):
Outside and they last, and the other thing is, they last a really long time.

Ant Pruitt (01:22:40):
Right, right. Again, I didn't know, but I'll let him know so he can go spend his own money. Here it

Leo Laporte (01:22:45):
Is Livermore, California's Centennial Light. Actually, this website looks like it came from 1896 <laugh>, home of the world's longest burning light bulb's.

Glenn Fleishman (01:22:56):
Well, you know, in those days, the websites are made of flog. There

Leo Laporte (01:22:58):
It is. There it is.

Glenn Fleishman (01:23:01):
That's amazing. It's

Leo Laporte (01:23:02):
Live. It is an fantastic, yeah. Oh, it's an in, well, wait a minute. That's live from 2015. It's an, oh, sorry. It's an incent light bulb. The old webcam has been replaced three frames a second. The image below for a larger view. It's in a firehouse in Livermore. That's live

Jeff Jarvis (01:23:20):
Friend of mine for the Chicago Tribune meeting with a good friend of mine. You know, did the feature story about it. 'cause Everybody does it. It was the easiest feature story on Earth.

Leo Laporte (01:23:27):
<Laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. We used to do, I think on the, on K N B R when I was working in San Francisco Radio CJ Bronson, that DJ would do a weekly check. <Laugh>, she would call me Livermore

Glenn Fleishman (01:23:40):
<Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:23:41):
I think she just wanted to talk to the fireman. I don't know. But she would call and say, is it still burning? Is it still burning? Yeah, it's still on. Okay, thanks.

Glenn Fleishman (01:23:48):
I, I'll tell you. Great. Is Pat has

Leo Laporte (01:23:49):
Story.

Glenn Fleishman (01:23:50):
That's a j Hauser man. That's what, when my kids were little, they were very into firefighters. And my wife was on a bus once with them and ran to somebody worked for the fire department, and, and they, she said the fire, you know, we had firemen in our neighborhood. I can't remember. It was at the time, it wasn't a fire in our house. How do we thank them? And she said, oh, bring ice cream, but in round containers, get the round containers, not square ones. And we're like, what is that about? Firefighters eat a lot of ice cream. Apparently they go through a lot of calories. And it's like, everything is birthday cake and ice cream. But the reason was it took us years to find out. I finally asked a fireman, he is like, oh, the round ones are premium. The square ones. It is

Leo Laporte (01:24:26):
<Laugh>. You don't want that dryer's crap. Oh my God. Stuff that from

Glenn Fleishman (01:24:30):
A block stuff. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:24:33):
So <laugh> actually, it's interesting that that light bulb's is going for so long. But normally 22 years incandescent bulbs do burn out a little bit.

Jeff Jarvis (01:24:42):
And as a, from a photography standpoint mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, was there any quality to an incandescent light bulb that's now

Glenn Fleishman (01:24:48):
Lost? No. I didn't, I didn't like incandescent

Leo Laporte (01:24:52):
For We don't, they're too hot. They use too much power. We use fluorescent and LEDs here, we have for years. Yep. the problem was LEDs, you know, my daughter's sensitive to LEDs 'cause of the, the flicker, the flicker frequency. Yeah. And so neurologically it bothers, it gives her a migraine. Oh. So she can't,

Glenn Fleishman (01:25:11):
They haven't improved that, or no. Is it still the same refresh rate? I thought they were.

Leo Laporte (01:25:14):
Well, and the worst thing is the way you dimm A L E D bulb is by slow, is by slowing the flicker. So it flickers worse. Oh hmm. Oh, so it isn't a Yeah, for her. She, and I think there are, of course, some reasons you might wanna still use a incandescent bulb according to the rule. Appliance lamps, black light lamps, <laugh>, do you still have that blacklight poster? Jeff? You got I've Mr. Oh yes.

Glenn Fleishman (01:25:40):
Jimmy Hendrix. Jimmy

Leo Laporte (01:25:42):
Hendrix up. Yeah. Colored lamps, GHA lamps, the diameter five inches or more. General service fluorescent lamps, high intensity discharge lamps. These are all still legal. Infrared lamps. Lamps that do not have Edison. Screw bases. Edison screw

Glenn Fleishman (01:25:56):
Bases. Edison screw base.

Leo Laporte (01:25:57):
What's that? That tells you how old this technology is. Geez. Lamps that have a wedge base or prefo base, left hand thread. They don't make left hand thread. L e d bulbs. Apparently. What? Marine lamps? Marine signal service lamps. Mine service lamps. You don't want an l e D in the mine. Mrs. Shape lamps that have a first number symbol equal to 16. And of Illumina output equal to or greater than 800 other fluorescent lamps. Plant light lamps, R 20 short lamps reflected lamps yet. Anyway, there's a long list of Oh, and traffic signals. There apparently are some traffic signals with incandescence. But generally speaking, plant lamps, that, that 40 watt bulb that you put in the lamp over your reading chair. Mm-Hmm. Got it. Got it. Oh, it was 144 year run.

Ant Pruitt (01:26:44):
Also, Mr. Jarvis, putting those in photography soft boxes, you probably burn up a soft

Leo Laporte (01:26:49):
Box. Oh yeah. They're hot.

Ant Pruitt (01:26:51):
They're so Dagg gum hot. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:26:52):
Yeah. Trump phase blocked the phase out of incandescent light bulbs in 2019. Because it was controversial. You know, same thing with gas stoves. I wanna keep my gas stove. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I don't care if it's putting benzene in the air and killing my kids. I want my gas stove. I've been

Ant Pruitt (01:27:10):
Hearing that, but dammit. I love my stove

Leo Laporte (01:27:12):
Too. <Laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (01:27:14):
You know, if you like your stove, you can keep your stove. That's the oh, that's probably my bad motto to

Leo Laporte (01:27:19):
<Laugh>. Oh, the girls New Houses <laugh>. Just watch out for the stove death panels. I'm just saying. That's

Glenn Fleishman (01:27:27):
Right.

Leo Laporte (01:27:28):
Okay. Yeah. There, Sam Altman has who is of course the founder of open AI also has a crypto coin currency called World Coin.

Glenn Fleishman (01:27:41):
Oh goodness.

Leo Laporte (01:27:42):
Which is now being banned in some countries. They just banned it in Kenya. Where you get $50 of world coin for scanning your iris

Glenn Fleishman (01:27:53):
Or nothing in the United States, you know that he'll pay you nothing in America. And people are still lined up to do it because it's cool. There was a whole thing in was it Matt Levine wrote about it recently in his money column for the email newsletter for Bloomberg that, you know, the question is, what, what would you, what do you want to have your eyeballs scanned? It's like, well, in some countries it's $50. The United States, people are like, well, I'll get some world coin for it. And he's like, I'm being informed that they would get no World Coin. I said, well, I'll get some in the future. One participant said,

Ant Pruitt (01:28:21):
Wow,

Leo Laporte (01:28:22):
Just scan me. Get it over with. Oh my gosh.

Glenn Fleishman (01:28:25):
Take my

Leo Laporte (01:28:25):
Eyes. This is from rest of World, which is a really great publication really is west of World org. Sophie Schmidt announced at the height of the N F T craze. World Coin is one of the most ambitious projects to emerge from the blockchain boom. Using a combination of cryptocurrency and biometric registration to create a new kind of global identity service. World coin claims, more than 2 million people have registered for the service. It is now officially launched. This was all in beta, but it just launched July 24th. They're, they have set up booths in 20 cities around the world where curious users can register.

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:02):
And what's the, the what, why, why does he want all these irises iry?

Leo Laporte (01:29:07):
Well, I think it's because,

Ant Pruitt (01:29:10):
Alright, this right here

Leo Laporte (01:29:11):
Says it's for identity. Right. They

Ant Pruitt (01:29:12):
Want, he's a combination of cryptocurrency and biometric registration to create a new kind of global identity service.

Leo Laporte (01:29:20):
So we know you are you.

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:21):
That sounds a little scary. You can,

Glenn Fleishman (01:29:23):
You can sandpaper your fingerprints off. I don't know what you're gonna do with your I

Leo Laporte (01:29:26):
<Laugh> Ooh, leak. Yeah. Well, and it is, it is Now, you know, it has been Kenya suspended, suspended it because of the privacy issue.

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:36):
Of course. I I use my iris to get in the, get on the plane faster now, so.

Leo Laporte (01:29:40):
Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah. use

Ant Pruitt (01:29:43):
Clear. You have no problem with that. Right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:45):
I use Clear.

Leo Laporte (01:29:46):
So I think one of the things I saw somebody say is, look, we were giving away our personal information for nothing. At least now we get 50 useless crypto coins. Except,

Glenn Fleishman (01:29:54):
Except in the US where we can offer you nothing. People will still do it. Not even working

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:59):
Free. Nft,

Glenn Fleishman (01:30:00):
You don't even get Yeah. Just wanna be part of it.

Ant Pruitt (01:30:04):
I know you talk a lot about decentralized platforms such as, you know, what's going on with Fedi verse and activity pub. Will you ever feel differently about decentralized banking?

Leo Laporte (01:30:21):
No. Actually, I, I I understand the need for that. And there are a lot of countries, unlike the US where banking is ubiquitous. There are a lot of countries primarily in the underdeveloped world where you don't, people are unbanked.

Ant Pruitt (01:30:34):
Unbanked. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:30:34):
And that's a problem. And so

Ant Pruitt (01:30:36):
We've talked a lot about that on on floss Weekly. Yeah. Over the last several months. No,

Leo Laporte (01:30:40):
I'm, obviously we, that's a problem that should be solved mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, because otherwise you get you serious companies, you know, doing, you know, pay chip payday loans and things. Yeah. You know, it's not, Ugh. Yeah. so you can download World App now, the first protocol compatible wallet, reserve your share after visiting the orb, the Eye of Soran, we like to think of it as a biometric verification device. You'll receive a world id, which lets you prove your real and unique person online while remaining completely private. So that's kind of interesting. As a global distribution of orbs is ramping up, you can find the closest one in book time to verified@worldcoin.org. I, I understand the need for, and I don't, I'm not against the need for authentication that is private mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but I don't know this just very weird. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:37):
Whom do you trust? That's the other

Leo Laporte (01:31:38):
Issue. Yeah. You have to trust Sam. Right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:41):
Elon comes back and buys

Leo Laporte (01:31:43):
This. But it is, I think it is aimed at the unbanked, right?

Ant Pruitt (01:31:48):
I assume,

Leo Laporte (01:31:50):
Yeah. It makes me very very nervous. When I was

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:52):
In Lagos, I was giving a speech some years ago, I was just amazed at the banking is entirely on phones and in ways that, you know, we can't imagine here. It's, it's, it's the, the mother of necessity

Ant Pruitt (01:32:05):
Yeah. Enables

Jeff Jarvis (01:32:06):
All kinds of other different systems.

Leo Laporte (01:32:10):
Yeah. So the idea is a global privacy forward authentication service. Yeah. I don't know. And where Yeah. Where's your retinal scan stored? Yeah. Who

Ant Pruitt (01:32:23):
Has it <laugh>?

Ant Pruitt (01:32:26):
And what are they doing with it after the, after they get it? Yeah. You know, how are we gonna build up that level of trust?

Leo Laporte (01:32:33):
Are they saving the actual retinal scan or they save a hash? You know, that would be the best way privacy forward to do this, is create a hash of the retinal scan store that it can't be reversed. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it can't. And then, so all you could do is authenticate with it.

Glenn Fleishman (01:32:49):
There's so much trust in that, that you believe that one would believe that they're doing, doing it the right way.

Leo Laporte (01:32:55):
Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (01:32:56):
Yeah. Without outside auditing and ongoing auditing to know that they were,

Leo Laporte (01:32:59):
We will keep an eye on this. We will, we will. Oh,

Glenn Fleishman (01:33:03):
No. Yeah. You're gonna, your eye on the orb. Are

Ant Pruitt (01:33:04):
You <laugh>? That was too easy.

Glenn Fleishman (01:33:08):
<Laugh>. I, you know, there's billions, tens of billions of dollars of in remittances that get sent from migrants refugees and others back to their home country to families and so forth. And there's so many fees collected. And it's a goal, I think it's the it's a group of the UN that's been trying to reduce the fees remittances over mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like a, some number year goal. And they've actually had managed to do it. The average fee paid has gone down. Good. But, you know, when I look at something like this, I think, I don't know if this is the solution, let's even pretend it isn't a safer argument, but something would be great for a way for people to transfer money legitimately back to their families. Yeah. Because they're getting ripped off and there's no reason for it. 'cause They're, they're handing over cash. The people the other side are getting cash. It's not really, it's no credit or other situations. Yeah. It's simply a in efficiency of

Ant Pruitt (01:33:54):
The system. It wasn't like the, the, the, the narrative here in the US was always related to drug transactions and, and trafficking when it came to decentralized banking, was that Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Glenn Fleishman (01:34:07):
But I think it's still, and it's still the case, but it's, there's, that's the decentralized banking doesn't mean a total lack of accountability. It just means that no one is an intermediary who gets to mm-hmm. <Affirmative> kinda shave money off it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think, I mean, that's one view. I'm probably being too regulatorily <laugh> four or bought into to say that

Leo Laporte (01:34:27):
The faq@theworldcorn.org site says they collect no personal data. Individuals who wanna receive a world ID are not required to share their name, phone number, email address, or home address. Cool. The images collected by the orb are used to generate a unique iris code and then immediately deleted once the code is created. Unless the user opts into data custody, you could also opt into a newsletter and give 'em an email address. They just want a unique

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:53):
Identifier, is what they're saying.

Leo Laporte (01:34:54):
Yeah. So it, so it is kind of what I was Yeah. Which is they make a, probably make a hash out of the information, destroy the information. The hash is a one-way hash, so all it could be used is, okay, scan your eye. Yeah. That's, it matches somebody in the database. Okay. World coin users may choose to share additional data, but this is never required. Importantly, the World Coin Foundation and its initial contributor tools for humanity do not, and never will sell anyone's personal data, including biometric data. So these are all promises. They're not legally binding in any way. And I'm sure that's what Kenya would like to know, but there is, you know, they, they're saying the right things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'm not sure how it would be used at that point. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:35:37):
That's what I wanna know. The next step.

Jeff Jarvis (01:35:39):
So let's see, who is Tools for Humanity?

Leo Laporte (01:35:41):
Tools for Humanity is a global technology company established to accelerate the transition toward a more just economic system.

Jeff Jarvis (01:35:50):
Says, they

Leo Laporte (01:35:51):
Says they twist Hamdi based in Erling in Bavaria, Germany. They have offices in San Francisco, Erling and Berlin. Well, they're Germans. What could possibly go wrong? Well, that <laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:06):
Chu.

Ant Pruitt (01:36:07):
I didn't say that, Mr. Chu.

Leo Laporte (01:36:09):
Yeah, no, it's, it's interesting. I'd like to know more. They do have a security audit that they do. They've done security assessments on it. But, but here's the problem. Of course, you can promise we're never gonna sell your data until somebody comes along and acquires them. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:36:23):
There's that.

Leo Laporte (01:36:24):
And then, oh, that data's nice. So they have something. I don't, you know, I don't know what the, I don't know how you could use this except all it, all it can be used for right now is to say whether somebody you are who you are is in the World Coin database. No, it doesn't even say who you are. Just you go off, you scan it. Oh, we already have you. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:36:42):
You're in our database. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:36:43):
Yeah. One, they built 1500 orbs, <laugh>. They're distributing the orbs everywhere. The orbs a little creepy, to be honest with you. It's

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:53):
Techno fix. You know, we're gonna have technology for everything that's gonna solve everything.

Leo Laporte (01:36:56):
Yeah. Well, I will, we'll keep an eye on this. Yeah. Curious.

Ant Pruitt (01:37:01):
Well, I mean, it's, it's Sam Altman, you know, so we have to sort of keep up with it, right. With everything going on stage. Well, we

Jeff Jarvis (01:37:06):
Also have to ask questions about, about long-termism and all this philosophical thing too. Yeah. What's the, what's the strategy behind?

Leo Laporte (01:37:13):
Yeah. We're just gonna collect a lot of iris scans. We'll worry about what to do with them later. <Laugh>. I don't know. Australians, now that they've tried work from home have decided that's, that's all we want. <Laugh> fascinatingly. The the Australian unions are taking the country's biggest bank to court wrangling with the federal government to have work from home, become the norm.

Ant Pruitt (01:37:42):
I, I, I hate to interrupt you, but no Australian exit on this <laugh>. Come on,

Leo Laporte (01:37:47):
Man. I'm, I'm, come

Ant Pruitt (01:37:49):
Off swear. I'm, I'm waiting for it.

Leo Laporte (01:37:50):
I swore off. I know. Janie's outta the bottle. Hey, working from home is something that's staying well beyond Covid and the pandemic. I'm sorry. That's terrible. Oh no. I'm so sorry.

Ant Pruitt (01:38:02):
Yeah. Okay. You're excused

Leo Laporte (01:38:03):
Australian. So that's an interesting, I wonder if that'd become a global movement. Yeah. We want the right to work from home.

Jeff Jarvis (01:38:10):
Well, did you see, I just put it in the in the, in the i R C chat. Michael Bloomberg wrote an op-ed today.

Leo Laporte (01:38:16):
Oh, he dead against him. So

Jeff Jarvis (01:38:17):
Why are all these federal workers a lazy at home? They should be back in the office like they are in my company. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:38:23):
And see, I don't like statements like that. 'cause Just 'cause I work from home, that doesn't mean I'm lazy. I actually get more done. I get more stuff done at home.

Leo Laporte (01:38:34):
And you get to swear more as well. <Laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (01:38:38):
I'm so sorry.

Jeff Jarvis (01:38:39):
Sorry. Oh, put that on

Leo Laporte (01:38:40):
The other list.

Glenn Fleishman (01:38:41):
<Laugh>. It's a, it's a need for management though, right? The manage. How does middle management show that it's doing something? It has people there. It can wave

Leo Laporte (01:38:47):
Their finger out. Not to mention all those beautiful buildings we built that are now empty. Yeah. And all the commercial real estate that is going fallow in San Francisco and elsewhere. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:38:58):
Spent no time in San Francisco when I was out there. I just went from the peninsula across the bridge, risking my life to come to you and back. What is San Francisco like in your view now?

Leo Laporte (01:39:08):
I haven't been there in a while, but it seems completely the same <laugh> when I have been in there. I went a couple of weeks ago. I'm gonna go up again in a couple of weeks to go see Oppenheimer. And I mean there, you know I, I haven't really been in the tech corridor, but there it's, the city's not that changed. You think it's sad? Have you been there recently?

Ant Pruitt (01:39:29):
Yeah, I went recently and it's, it's pretty sad and or disgusting.

Leo Laporte (01:39:32):
I think it depends on what neighborhood you go to <laugh>. If you go, you know, south of market, the Tenderloin, city Hall Civic Center there's a lot of homeless. There's a big fentanyl problem

Ant Pruitt (01:39:42):
Market. A lot of the market is bad. Yeah. Oh, it's bad

Leo Laporte (01:39:45):
That, yeah. And that's true. And I think it's true in a lot of big cities. And I don't know if San Francisco knows how to fix it, to be honest with you. I don't know if anybody does.

Jeff Jarvis (01:39:54):
No. In London, when, when I was in London, new New York, Midtown Manhattan is, is, I wouldn't say as sad, but it's, it's not a pleasant picture now, just come back. London was much more vibrant to me 'cause it was all mixed use. I, I guess Canary Wharf is sad 'cause that's just offices. Yeah. But where the city is mixed with homes and offices and stuff. That's

Leo Laporte (01:40:13):
The case in San Francisco as well. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:40:15):
Just, just coming back from LA to Queen Pruitt down there. 'cause She hadn't been to LA yet. As part of my and my dues prior to football season, <laugh> and

Leo Laporte (01:40:24):
<Laugh>. Alright, I'll take you somewhere. But when the season starts, you know that TV Yeah. With my remote. Right? Right. <Laugh> and then, you know,

Ant Pruitt (01:40:31):
You, you know how I roll

Leo Laporte (01:40:32):
<Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:40:33):
But yeah, it, it was, it was fun for us to go down there, but she saw some of the stuff that we're talking about now. And, you know, we got a, we rented scooters one time to go somewhere to eat or what have you. And her having to dodge human poop.

Leo Laporte (01:40:46):
It's a problem.

Ant Pruitt (01:40:47):
You gotta solve it. Don't, on the sidewalk.

Leo Laporte (01:40:49):
I don't wanna blame the people who are unhoused. We gotta,

Ant Pruitt (01:40:52):
Yeah. It's a problem.

Leo Laporte (01:40:53):
It's

Glenn Fleishman (01:40:53):
A problem. Build more houses where Seattle has one of the worst per capita unhoused problems in the country. We have a incredible shortage of houses. None of the things, they're spending huge amounts of money. But because of inflation and our real estate didn't really take much of a blip. Even during COVID, we didn't have much of a a downswing. So it's impossible for working people with full-time jobs, sometimes in tech to be able to live in Seattle as renters. So it's, you know, even more if you've got a service job you know, our minimum wage is now 17 something an hour. I think it's, and

Leo Laporte (01:41:28):
You can't live on that though. This, you can't have a

Glenn Fleishman (01:41:30):
Place. You can't, I mean, with two, two people with full-time jobs, if they could get it and subsidized healthcare would still have a hard time. I mean, teacher, the, the average starting teacher wage here teachers can't afford to live in Seattle. Right. Unless there are two teachers in one household, maybe. Right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:41:46):
So that's a I was thinking after I left last week mm-hmm. <Affirmative> finally got to meet mm-hmm. The magnificent Queen. Mm-Hmm. Or minus I was thinking that she should sing a new theme song,

Ant Pruitt (01:41:56):
<Laugh>. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:41:57):
Can you, how this, can she go?

Ant Pruitt (01:42:04):
Just have her sing it? Okay. Well, I'll, that might work. That might work. I'll, I'll put it. That'll be better. Yeah. I'll ask her about that. Okay. And she was very, very happy to see you, sir. She, she was

Jeff Jarvis (01:42:14):
So happy. I was so happy to see. I, I was surpris. I went off to, to do things, means have do. When I came back and she was gone, I was very disappointed.

Leo Laporte (01:42:22):
Yeah. We were hoping she'd come to dinner with us, but,

Ant Pruitt (01:42:24):
Oh, no. She had other plans that she had other plans. Better, better our family. Slack said, Hey, fend for yourself. 'cause I am. And that usually meant going

Leo Laporte (01:42:33):
To the bottom. <Laugh>. How would this go over In in the Pruitt household, China has decided that people under 18 will not be allowed to access the internet via mobile device between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM each day. Right on. Right on. The regular regulator will introduce a graduated system where young people have different amounts of internet access, depending on age, under eight years old, 40 minutes a day, 16 to 18, a maximum of two hours a day. The content must be age appropriate. And all youngsters will be reminded to take breaks every 30 minutes.

Ant Pruitt (01:43:04):
If

Leo Laporte (01:43:05):
This becomes a law in one month.

Ant Pruitt (01:43:08):
If this were my parents hey, fine. That's, that's okay If this is, but the government, government is different. Go, I, I don't care for that at all. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:43:19):
Why did you say good?

Glenn Fleishman (01:43:21):
I like it in principle. Not in actuality. <Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (01:43:26):
<Laugh>. What would

Jeff Jarvis (01:43:26):
Your, what would your

Ant Pruitt (01:43:27):
Kids say? Like, dad,

Glenn Fleishman (01:43:29):
We didn't, I mean, we, we, we did what we apparently were the Chinese government when our children were growing up, not only no TV for Europe discover this. We yeah, we limited television access and internet access and Yeah. And took all, we collected all devices before the kids went to bed each night. So there was no temptation in the bedroom. And you know, then they grew up and we're like, all right, whatever. We'll throw you to the wolves we gave you. Right. We gave you all the developmental chances we could. Now you're

Ant Pruitt (01:43:53):
Mornings and everything. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:43:55):
My sister and I grew up with TVs in our rooms.

Ant Pruitt (01:43:58):
I did too. Little

Jeff Jarvis (01:43:59):
Tiny crappy

Leo Laporte (01:44:00):
Blackboard. And look what happened. You became a TV critic. TV critic. That's so sad. I did touch

Glenn Fleishman (01:44:05):
A on,

Ant Pruitt (01:44:07):
I, I grew up with, with a tiny 13 inch color television in my room. But you know what that meant?

Leo Laporte (01:44:13):
Color.

Ant Pruitt (01:44:14):
You better turn that TV off. It's time to go to bed. Yeah. 'cause that's, that's what it was, what it was

Glenn Fleishman (01:44:19):
For. We just clicked the earphone into it with the, the headphone cable. It plugged the little ear button in.

Ant Pruitt (01:44:23):
Mama Pruit wasn't having that. And

Jeff Jarvis (01:44:25):
You could hear the clicks down the

Leo Laporte (01:44:26):
Hall.

Glenn Fleishman (01:44:27):
Good ultrasonic.

Leo Laporte (01:44:29):
Do you remember when X Elon Musk said that the, the system of awarding blue checks was what is it? Lords and Peasants. This is my favorite Lords and peasants. This is my favorite. So he said, now, from now on, we're gonna democratize the blue check $8 a month, and you get a blue check.

Jeff Jarvis (01:44:53):
Eight bucks. Schmuck, <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:44:54):
Then that's what happens is people who paid the eight bucks into the blue check were humiliated. They were mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, they were called Musk bootle and eight buck schmucks. And so now Twitter says, early today or yesterday, Twitter added a note about hiding your blue tick. There's a toggle on your settings so that the blue tick does the, the mark of shame does not appear. You can still pay, you'll still have to pay, but you don't have to show the check.

Jeff Jarvis (01:45:25):
So a a a mark of prestige has fully, he turned it into a mark of shame.

Leo Laporte (01:45:31):
Yes. Hide your blue tick.

Glenn Fleishman (01:45:34):
Oh my God. <Laugh>. It's so funny. So, you know, it's there was, there've been reports lately I know I was reading this in Ryan Broderick's garbage data today that that people on Twitter who are really active in paying and so forth, are really mad because there's not as much engagement. And it's like, yeah. There's no libs to make fun of anymore. You can't own the libs. 'cause The libs went elsewhere. Yeah. Folks. Yeah. hard to own the Libs. If you don't own the Libs, you have to, you can't pay for 'em. I mean, that would be a great service. They should pay people to come back and be abused by folks on the right who wanna pay for the privilege. Be like being a jester or something.

Leo Laporte (01:46:08):
There's nothing. Thousand nothing that comes of being on X I'm sorry. I,

Glenn Fleishman (01:46:11):
Nope. About to celebrate my ex anniversary when I got off Twitter a year

Leo Laporte (01:46:17):
Ago. Your X first three, you got off a year ago. That was

Glenn Fleishman (01:46:21):
November 20th or Oh

Leo Laporte (01:46:22):
Yeah. Something somewhere around that. You right when Elon came along. Quite, yeah. That was the end of

Glenn Fleishman (01:46:25):
October. I just said, that's it. That's

Leo Laporte (01:46:27):
It. Me too. I had

Glenn Fleishman (01:46:28):
Slight hope. We, I was on your show here with I've forgotten the fellow's name. The one who founded Evernote. Phil Bin. Bin. Yeah. Who was delightful and so relaxing. And he was reassuring because he is a reasonable person. And then I think literally while we're recording, eon did all sorts of incredibly ridiculous and terrible things. And then it never led up after that. But I was like, oh, Phil, you make a lot of sense <laugh>. 'cause You are rational. You're putting things in context. You're talking about how people make good business decisions and how the showman side, I remember it was like, yeah, you're showman and, and you know, Musk. And I was like, he's, so, it's like, was he defending

Leo Laporte (01:47:03):
Elon at the time, or

Glenn Fleishman (01:47:04):
No, he was, wasn't

Ant Pruitt (01:47:05):
Defend working in it. It was, it was more along the lines of, look, this is a business and he's trying, let's, let's think about this as a business person. Not necessarily as a platform. I wonder

Leo Laporte (01:47:14):
What Phil would say now.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:15):
Yeah. I remember that episode and I was like, that's what I've been yelling. And people yell at me. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (01:47:20):
<Laugh>. Yeah. I thought he was very reasonable. But then, like, literally while we were recording the episode, Elon was banning people and <laugh> striking down recorders and Kanye's back. Totally.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:29):
Yeah. Kanye

Leo Laporte (01:47:30):
Back. Kanye. it's crazy. I don't, I, you know, I I I'm so glad he renamed it. 'cause That kind of, in a way, helped me understand. And others I think accept that it, that Twitter was done. This is something new. This is something different. Participate or not, but it's not Twitter anymore.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:48):
And he said that from day one though. Yeah. Is my understanding.

Leo Laporte (01:47:51):
Yeah. Well, that's for sure.

Jeff Jarvis (01:47:52):
Yeah. But it's not done. It's still not done for some people who it matters for and mm-hmm. And I'm still gonna stand, I, I I quote Andre Brock Jr. Often on the show. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, he had a great essay in time about two, three weeks ago saying basically regarding black Twitter work too hard for this. Not giving it up. Not yet. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (01:48:12):
Well, it's rough. There's no, there's no good place to bring one's community that makes sense yet. Right. So that's still the problem for people who have a community. And then, you know, these guys

Jeff Jarvis (01:48:20):
Started, but then it, it had missteps,

Glenn Fleishman (01:48:25):
Blue sky threads. There's so many. I mean, this is something there ever be.

Ant Pruitt (01:48:28):
I barely look at Blue Sky. I have enjoyed Thread. I barely looked at threads. I have enjoyed threads more especially with the, that

Leo Laporte (01:48:33):
Is much like the old Twitter.

Ant Pruitt (01:48:35):
Yeah. With the following tab in there now that it, it's, you know, that, that shows that it's my curation of, of content to consume. It's been, it's been quite nice to, to see, see stuff and interact with people in there.

Glenn Fleishman (01:48:49):
Iactually set up my account on Blue Sky, and I check in there from time to time. It just feels like a empty bar. Yeah. Right. They start, they're scaling very slowly, and it's possible to be something, but I don't know that it's, it's distinct enough from Mastodon. I still find, I think Mastodons been great for my personal mental health and business and chumminess needs. It's been really good. But I, it's on social. I know it's, yeah. It's just really, yeah, it's good group. I mean, we met, Hey, you know, I think Jeff May have mentioned we were in Haverhill, a number of twit members of the Oh, good Club folks where they're several people Yeah. Identify themselves as twit listers, fewer cows, actually, members.

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:26):
Yep. Yep.

Glenn Fleishman (01:49:27):
Yeah, it's very nice.

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:28):
Yeah. I mean, one thing the Threads has done is if you, if you just go to the search button on threads, for me, it just shows the politicians, the stars, the media companies. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, as much as people vilify. Yeah. Zuckerberg and Meta, they're there. Mm-Hmm.

Ant Pruitt (01:49:44):
<Affirmative>, the I don't go to the search, but if I just go to the algorithm version of it, it's cool seeing that there's actual brands there. I can't say that on Blue Sky. I can't say that on, but I

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:58):
Still, I like Blue Sky better still,

Ant Pruitt (01:50:00):
You know, because sometimes I like to see what brands are putting out there content wise is, you know, it sort of trips my trigger far as creative ideas. If

Leo Laporte (01:50:10):
You'll, I still think it's an open question whether, I mean, we, we've survive without a thing like that, like Twitter until recently. I still think it's an open question whether we need something like that or what we can do perfectly well without anything like that. I mean, does it have to be your

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:26):
Replacement? Well, what does that like, that mean? I think it's

Leo Laporte (01:50:27):
A microblogging scale. That is the,

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:29):
I don't think we need a single site. We need Right. Places where you go to the people you like. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:33):
Yeah. But, but I think the days of that, you know, one place, everybody went during the Super Bowl and the Academy Awards and, you know, George Floyd protests and so forth, I think

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:46):
Gone, that was a too, because again, no two people ever saw the same Twitter. So you weren't talking, no one was speaking to all of Twitter. The way you speak to all of c n n you were speaking to whoever. Many people happened to see your tweet, and that was it. It was always small scale. We just thought it was big scale.

Leo Laporte (01:51:02):
Right. But do we need it? No. No. There is nothing. Ha, nothing has to replace it. In other words, there's no, I can understand people's desire for

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:11):
That. Anything can replace it. But

Leo Laporte (01:51:12):
People our age, Jeff, have seen a lot of things come and go. <Laugh>, you know, you know, we have, we have grandpa. This is just a way of the world.

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:21):
I remember clickers, <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (01:51:24):
You know, grandpa, we used to have a remote control that required no batteries. That's crazy. Didn't have to be line of sight.

Ant Pruitt (01:51:30):
That's not a remote. <Laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:32):
My first V C R remote was a wire across the room. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:51:36):
Those are the ones I remember the wires. I remember that. But I don't know what you're talking about. Sounds like some weird witchcraft.

Glenn Fleishman (01:51:44):
I still miss vcr. Plus

Leo Laporte (01:51:46):
What? <Laugh>. Oh, that was the thing.

Glenn Fleishman (01:51:50):
You'd

Leo Laporte (01:51:50):
Have the listing on the tv or the TV guide on the newspaper. And you'd God trademark. You'd point it was a number, right? You'd enter in the number. The

Glenn Fleishman (01:51:57):
Number, yeah. Number in. Yeah. And it would record the program. We'd do all the right work. You'd have to set your timers.

Leo Laporte (01:52:02):
The problem being that nobody had figured out how to set their VCR or, that's

Ant Pruitt (01:52:06):
Pretty fancy. The

Glenn Fleishman (01:52:07):
Clock was always, if someone had put, there was some, wasn't there some story at one point about someone in VCR r design, it was like, I wanted them to put a 5 cent battery in and they wouldn't let me, or something like that to never have the clock start flashing. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:52:20):
Wouldn't you still have it be nice? Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:52:22):
So, so that was the ruin of TV guide. Murdoch thought it was gonna ruin TV guide. So he merged TV guide with Gemstar, the company that created BCR R Plus. And it was a whole legal thing of whether, you know, this is this magic technology to make this magic number so you could program your V C R. And then finally so we could buy the Wall Street Journal. He sold the whole thing for a 10th of value. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:52:43):
Yeah. Alright. Coming up the this week we've got two segments, our regular segments this week in ai, the Google change log, and then I'm adding a new segment, the bottom of the show, <laugh>. That doesn't sound great. He wins where all the spanking happens. Hello. Hello. Hello. Got a great panel. Jeff Jarvis, of course. Ant Pruitt, our regulars and joining us, filling in for Stacey this week. The wonderful Glen Fleshman Glen. Do fun with two ends. Yeah. Alright, it's time for, we don't have a bumper or anything. Maybe Queen Pruitt could sing for this one.

(01:53:24):
It's time for this week in ai, ai, ai, A ai, ai, ai. How about that? Google ai, ai something I think, I think you got the beginnings of it. Google has gotten rid of its test kitchen AI test kitchen app. It's gone. Interesting. But it's been replaced by the web. So they launched it last August. The AI test kitchen was home to experiments. A rotating set of experimental demos. There are three still available, but now you do them on the web. Imagine it name a place. And Lambda, Google's large language model will offer paths to explore your imagination. I don't know what that, list it name a goal or topic and see how much Lambda can break it down into multiple set lists of sub tasks. Very not useful. And talk about it. Dog's Edition. Roll with the conversation, see where it goes.

(01:54:20):
Just a kind of fun, weird open-ended chat. Season two is coming for AI test Kitchen. Actually, there is something new. This is but it's, again, it's on the web. You have, it's called I guess I can't get it right. I'm si am I signed in? It's a music lmm, an experimental technology that lets you generate your own synthetic music. I do have some samples that I can play for you that Google provided to journalists. Lemme play a little bit of these, and I'll describe the prompt. So the idea is, oh, wait a minute. No, this is not Google's, this is Metas. It's Mets, but I think this probably the same as Google's. So the idea is you give it a text prompt and that you, it then plays a sound. Google's version of this is only accessible to researchers. So here you go. You ready? I'll tell you the prompts. And as you listen to the music, this is movie scene in a Desert with Percussion. You ready? That's our new AI theme. This is electronic Jamaican reggae DJ set.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
First one is

Leo Laporte (01:55:37):
A yes. Second one. A no. Eighties electronic with drum beats. How about jazz? Instrumental medium tempo spirited piano

Ant Pruitt (01:55:46):
That works.

Leo Laporte (01:55:47):
Mellow hiphop. Bio

Ant Pruitt (01:55:49):
Stretch elevators are getting

Leo Laporte (01:55:50):
Worse. It is elevator music. Yeah, but

Ant Pruitt (01:55:53):
Two outta four. Two outta four. Any band? I liked

Leo Laporte (01:55:55):
The first one. The, the, the movie music with percussion. It sounded like Lawrence of Arabia.

Ant Pruitt (01:56:03):
I could see, I could see you seeing Desert Scene. It's

Leo Laporte (01:56:05):
Indiana Jones. So that's Meta's version of it. I can't play the the l l m, the Google. I have to register my interest. <Laugh>. We're opening it up to a group of testers no longer an app. Do it on the web.

Ant Pruitt (01:56:23):
I know the headline was, was all about it being shut down from, it was just the app shut the mobile, yeah. Mobile side of it. But it's on the web. Doesn't it make sense to do this type of stuff more so on a web browser at a desk instead of

Leo Laporte (01:56:37):
I don't have a problem with that. Yeah. Very interesting piece. An N p R movie Extra is worried they'll be replaced by ai. I remember when SAG went on strike, one of the things they complained about was background actors being scanned and then used without their permission in perpetuity after four weeks. This is from the story of working as a background actor on Wand Vission, which was a Disney Plus show. We enjoyed a lot. Alexandria Rubal Cabo was told by the production crew to report to a tractor trailer. Dozens of other background actors were wrangled to the same site, where one by one they were told to step in front of a series of cameras on metal rigs behind glass. Have your hands out. Have your hands in. Look this way. Look that way. Let us see your scared face. Let us see your surprised face. They told her the actors had their faces and bodies scanned for about 15 minutes each digital replicas were created. She was never told how or if this digital avatar would ever be used on screen. Like Henrietta Locks. Yeah. It's like Halo.

Ant Pruitt (01:57:41):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Leo Laporte (01:57:42):
If used, she might never know. No matter what happens, she'll never see any payment. Now I remember when the actors asserted this, initially when they went on strike, the Association of Motion picture and television producers said, no, no, no. We would <laugh> I mean, they, we, we would just use it for the show that they're in. We would never use that again.

Ant Pruitt (01:58:03):
Right.

Leo Laporte (01:58:04):
Disney did not return a request for comment to N P R the actor who makes the SAG after union rate of $187 a day as a background actor. I background actors are not exactly extras. There's a guild for that. The Screen Extras Guild. I think that they just, they just don't have a line, but they're in the scene, you know? Yep. she said she never gave permission for her digital replica to be used in the background of any scenes.

Ant Pruitt (01:58:31):
She might have. She might

Leo Laporte (01:58:32):
Have signed some contract. Yeah. God knows. Well, they have

Glenn Fleishman (01:58:35):
A but they have a standard contract, so she couldn't, I don't think she could, under union representation, she could sign away more rights than were already agreed upon. I, I'm making an assumption. I'm not a union legal expert.

Leo Laporte (01:58:47):
A union negotiator says, you know, that they can get one day pay, be scanned, and then be used forever. The studios say, no, no, no. The digital background actors replica would only be used on project that the performer was hired for. But it's, you know, it's, he said, she said, you don't know what's going on. So that's one of the, one of the very good reasons the actors are striking.

Benito (01:59:11):
Hi, this is Benito. There's actually another caveat to this, which is that the one part of Hollywood that doesn't have a union is the special effects, special effects people, right? They're the ones who are implementing this stuff, and they're probably gonna be the ones next to form Union. They should. And then, and then what's Hollywood gonna do?

Leo Laporte (01:59:27):
Yeah. They

Glenn Fleishman (01:59:28):
Should, I know, I know some special effects artists, and it's there's, they have the shortest end of a stick of a trillion dollar stick. It is the worst. Yeah. They, a lot of them love their job. They're incredibly creative. They do such good work. They're, you know, they, your credits. I always stay at the end of the film to watch. Occasionally somebody I know's name swipe up in the credits at, you know, super fast. Well, not super fast. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, the films have a moderate speed, but boy, they they have no, I, I don't know how they got themselves in this position. Because I think there was all that Pixar and others were engaged in the reported anti-poaching and salary fixing stuff that went on that, that Catme and others were allegedly responsible for, for pulling together years ago. But anyway, they're the ones, yeah, they're the ones who get the stick and they're gonna have to do all the, the sort of the stick. And they're gonna be doing all this work and terrible circumstances and, and no no great negotiating position. Despite their expertise.

Leo Laporte (02:00:25):
Writer's guild's been on strike for three months, maybe the association, the Alliance of Motion picture and television producers has blinked. They have requested a meeting with W G A for Friday first meeting since the strike began. W g a chief negotiator, Ellen Stutzman, has agreed to meet with a M P T P President Carol Lardini This Friday was a request from the producers to discuss next steps. So maybe some movement we shall, we shall see.

Glenn Fleishman (02:00:56):
I, I'll point out that while I'm not an a a movie extra or background actor excuse me I d g excuse me, I d g just launched or what they're called now, Foundry a AI tool on Mac World, where I've been contributing as a freelancer for many years. And it's it's not gonna replace me, but it's certainly using work I did for them that I did as work for hire and was well compensated. I, I feel actually perfectly, fairly compensated for my work, was work for hire. But here's the thing, the work I do for them is very perishable because it's, it's answers to questions. I'd mostly write the MAC 9 1 1 column. So that's good. And they launched this last week. And so they're, they've trained a very specific AI from a, not from one of the major against the corpus of their of columns written about answers.

(02:01:44):
And I'm actually very intrigued. I, I don't feel, I don't feel abused because I was paid and I could use my content and have in all kinds of ways. And I would love it if someone could type in a thing like, what monitor can I use for this? And it was like, here's the answer and here's the column it came from. Oh, that is good. It's one of the first times I've seen something. I'm like, well, I don't know what the answers will be. Like, that's, you know, a matter for other people to figure it out. But I like the idea that it's not trying to invent stuff. It's just pulling it from a corpus of highly focused information. But I gotta keep writing new stuff for that. Right. Because every day there's a new operating system update.

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:19):
<Laugh>. So, Glenn, I, I, I, last week I gave a report on having seen network, lm previously known as project Tailwind,

Leo Laporte (02:02:28):
No, notebook. L and Notebook. L Notebook.

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:30):
Lmm. Notebook. Notebook. Oh, yeah. Okay. Notebook L sorry. Which Steven Johnson a company working on. And by the way, I, I heard from Steven that I didn't mess it up on the show, that

Leo Laporte (02:02:38):
<Laugh>, in fact, he said everybody, the whole team was listening. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:42):
Yeah. So that's good. I

Leo Laporte (02:02:44):
Guess

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:45):
<Laugh> and so but it's exactly that, Glen, it's, and, and, and as Steven Johnson was saying to me, it's a new business opportunity for companies. Imagine being able to have a dialogue with the archives of the New York Times or Yeah. Or the Atlantic or whatever publication or Wikipedia or anything, and ask questions and have it come back because, you know, the Corpus is working with is not every stupid thing on Earth, but is this finite gosh thing with, with

Leo Laporte (02:03:13):
With Borders, right? I remember going to the archives and getting a microfiche machine, and they bring tape reels of microfiche, which is scanned in mm-hmm. <Affirmative> images of the newspaper. And you turn the crank and you're looking for a story. Imagine being able to query it.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:29):
And you know what, Leo, it was dark mode too. It

Leo Laporte (02:03:31):
Was dark mode. That's why I learned about Dark Mode. But you'd query it.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:35):
And, and since you're the, since you're the young in here, do you know what a newspaper library was called? I, I, it was called, I, I have

Glenn Fleishman (02:03:42):
Used

Leo Laporte (02:03:42):
Microfiche machine machine before. It was the morgue. Do you know what the, it was called the Morgue.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:48):
Morgue? No,

Leo Laporte (02:03:48):
I didn't know it. I didn't know that. That I didn't know.

Glenn Fleishman (02:03:51):
That's where all the dead bodies were buried.

Leo Laporte (02:03:53):
Yeah. Yeah. But wouldn't that be fantastic to have a New York Times l l m that you could query and it would be tied to actual digital images from the newspaper, and you could say, Hey what else was going on when J f K was shot November 23rd, 1963. And it's

Glenn Fleishman (02:04:09):
Limited Focus corpus. And it's, and also I think as somebody who, you know, does a lot of my writing these days is how to, and answering people both in book form for the Take control series at Mac World and elsewhere. And I'm, I love to know what people are asking. And so there will be a huge, I don't know how this will filter back to me at all, but I would love to believe that they'll get all of this, these questions coming in, understand better what people are asking. And potentially if it's successful, or efforts like this are successful, that's an opportunity. Me and other writers to be writing more focused material that would actually answer reader's needs better would be a, a positive loop. Because the AI part would be used to help direct people. And it, and it provides, this is the best thing to me, is when you ask it the question, it provides links to articles at Mac World. It doesn't just say, here's an answer, go figure it out. And so it's actually relying on the expertise of humans, but leveraging that natural language querying. I, I mean, that's one of the best features. It

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:02):
Was kind of the model of, of about.com before at the mining company. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (02:05:06):
Yeah. That's

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:06):
Right. Where, where, where, through the, the Google query, the Google query of the link that came to you. You saw the question that someone asked in search. Yeah. That's gone now.

Glenn Fleishman (02:05:14):
Back when there was no privacy,

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:15):
You see that question that told about.com, oops, people are asking this question. We better write some stuff up about that topic. So when they ask the next time, we are the ones who come up over Wikipedia.

Glenn Fleishman (02:05:25):
So I don't, I don't mean to have a positive AI story, but I'm very intrigued by it. It didn't make me go err, or I said, well, this is fine. They've licensed my, they've licensed my words, they paid me for it, and they're trying something new with it that actually emphasizes mm-hmm. <Affirmative> my words as an answer, which I don't know. I think that's great for, for

Leo Laporte (02:05:42):
Now. Let's, yeah. These are, it's so interesting. We are really I have to, I've revised a little bit my notions of ai, which initially I thought, really, this is just a parlor trick. We're gonna tire of it very quickly. By the way, notice how, how, how often do you go to chat G p t and ask questions or use binging chat? Yeah. I have a binging chat button now on Windows <laugh>. Big deal. I'm never gonna use it. So I think some of the novelty is worn off. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But there are some real significant uses, some good, some bad. And you know, I think now is when we get into the real nitty gritty of it. And we're, I, I've changed my tune. I think there are some

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:19):
<Crosstalk>, you, I was thinking about this tune of yours. I'm gonna sing counter Punk. That I think that that generative AI for many purposes is part of the trick is done. Mm. But using, taking the power of machine learning and then applying it to content to help organize it, to ask questions of it, to find trends in it, to do all these things, to find further depth of value in it, I think that's a tremendous opportunity.

Glenn Fleishman (02:06:51):
Yeah. I would love to see like a library. Can you imagine? I mean, there are expert librarians. I'm not trying to take anything away from them, but often the queries librarians get are, do you know this thing I'm trying to find? Right? And the answer is, no. Human being can encompass all of human knowledge and librarians know how to break it down. But I've often gone to chat G P T or other engines and said, I'm describe something, and it says, oh, this is what you're looking for. And I'm like, oh my. And I look it up. You know, I don't just accept that I look it up and confirm. And sometimes it will make something up. It'll make up a sci-fi story or a U R L or a product. But most of the time, if I describe something accurately, I get an answer. And I don't know what human being I might have been able to answer. You know, I'll ask unm, Masteron people don't have an answer. I'll ask chat G P T, and it gets me very close to what I need to know. And that, that part is, is exciting. And I wish people didn't feel like they had to say, well, that's gonna replace all expertise everywhere forever.

Leo Laporte (02:07:41):
Yeah. I think that's what we're learning is there are niches where an appropriate use of ai, you know, you just described that scenario, could apply also to physicians who are expected to know every disease possible and all the diagnostic criteria for that disease. Well, then AI could do that better. And then a physician could focus on you know, figuring out what treatments, how to handle a patient mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and things like that. More research, softer skills. But let the, let the, the AI say, well, given this, you know, these set of symptoms, I think these are the three possibilities. But let 'em

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:12):
Come in and confirm. Say,

Leo Laporte (02:08:13):
Yeah. That seems Yeah. Yeah. The humans are, we're not gonna get rid of humans in this process, I don't think. Right. Yeah. Well, if

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:18):
We're not, it's a story. I put in the rundown that, that, that it's, and we know this, it's proving very good at radiology. Yeah. And seeing patterns. I also talked to my cardiologist today when I was seeing him for my checkup. And he said that, that he, there's, there's one process. He has to do these exact measurements in slices of the heart. It's very laborious. Now, the a I can come in, it has done all the measurements. It gives him a guess. It's just saves him time. Valuable time. I

Leo Laporte (02:08:44):
Gotta caution you on the radiology thing, though. We keep hearing that. Oh. and, and then it always, it often turns out that, oh, nevermind. I've heard this many, many, I've been hearing this for years about radiology. And remember they applied Watson, they thought Watson, the I bm. Yeah. Machine won Jeopardy. They thought it'd be really good in radiology, and it turned out to be worse than a physician. And they actually retired.

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:08):
Did you look at this study?

Leo Laporte (02:09:10):
No, but I'm just saying, we've seen these studies again and again. I've seen it before. But what they do was, they went way, this study, not a huge amount. It was like 20% better than humans. Right? Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:18):
Yeah. Yeah. But you know, every incremental bit.

Leo Laporte (02:09:22):
I, I'm, I'm ready to, I'm, you know,

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:25):
This, I wanna be a 20% better podcaster.

Leo Laporte (02:09:28):
AI supported mammogram screening increases breast cancer detection by 20%, according to a study published in The Lancet an a study it was a big study. 80,000 women in Sweden. Yeah. Half the women were assigned to a group in which AI read the mammogram before it was analyzed by a radiologist. The other group's mammograms were read by two radiologists without the use of ai. The group whose scans were read by a radiologist, along with assistance from an AI had 20% more cancers detected. But again, I, I, I've seen studies, these studies augment.

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:01):
But again, it's, it's, it's, if things can be helpful and augment it, I think

Leo Laporte (02:10:05):
That's the thing we're mainly learning, which is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> maybe being a little more circumspect about the amazing abilities of these ai. Absolutely. But how they can be used appropriately in conjunction with humans. And there are definitely

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:18):
Some use. So, so there was very interesting, I just, before we got on, I saw the Reid Hoffman lectured wired magazines. 'cause They had a statement on ai. They were gonna be circle respect about it. And Reed was saying, you know, damnit, you should be wired. Get wired wired, <laugh> <laugh>. And then the editor of Gideon Litchfield came back and answered Reed. And it was, the word they were arguing about was just that circumspect, how circumspect should we be about ai?

Leo Laporte (02:10:43):
Yeah. you know, he wanted wired to be the cheerleader that used to be when it was mm-hmm. <Affirmative> purple text on a black background. And you could barely read it. But times have changed. And I don't, I don't think that we really, we've discovered

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:57):
Dark

Leo Laporte (02:10:57):
Mode at this point. Do we really need a cheerleader in technology? Maybe what we really need is somebody, some real, a dose of reality. We, we've never wanted to be a Yeah. We, I, well, it's balanced. I don't, you know, we

Ant Pruitt (02:11:09):
Need balance. 'cause

Jeff Jarvis (02:11:10):
We don't need moral panic either. Yeah. Yeah. Because

Ant Pruitt (02:11:12):
We, we get a whole lot of the panic. Panic

Leo Laporte (02:11:14):
Skepticism is not panic, but skepticism is not inappropriate. You know, I agree. Here's a perfect example is Superconductor report. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They

Ant Pruitt (02:11:24):
Were talking about this yesterday. I never could find a story. What, what?

Leo Laporte (02:11:27):
So a superconductor is something that can conduct electricity without, with basically zero friction, no loss. And traditionally, this has been a very low temperatures close to absolute zero. Just like room temperature. Fusion is a goal. You can do fusion, but it has to take a lot of heat. What would change the world if you could get a room temperature, superconductor. And there was a study came out last week that, by a group that said we've created a room temperature superconductor. Hmm. A material called LK 99. What was interesting about this was it was created kind of with, you know, not weird materials, like normal materials. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So there have been, now, so I should say that Oppenheimer

Ant Pruitt (02:12:23):
Codes to the box office. And now we're

Leo Laporte (02:12:25):
Getting remarkable stores. <Laugh>, you know, this, this kind of what is the phrase? This kind of remarkable result deserves remarkable proof. Right. Evidence, extraordinary claims has to be extraordinary. Claims require extraordinary evidence. There we go. Thank you Benito, as always. He's my bonito. You're now nominated to be my new brain <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (02:12:49):
He is our chat. G p t.

Leo Laporte (02:12:50):
Yeah. Yeah. What's been interesting is there've been people on Twitter <laugh> who've been trying to make this thing. Oh, good. Yeah. Unless it's dangerous. So I say, cool. It maybe involves sulfur and No, no. That's, it's not that dangerous. And, and there's been a lot of like, chatter around, like, this is ridiculous. I was skeptical at first because it really is something that would be a holy grail. But like, like room temperature fusion, it seems highly unlikely now. Tom's hardware has just reported that that perhaps it has been replicated. And that's gonna be the real test, is that other people come up with the same you've gotta have replication. So the reason there's some excitement is if it really is true, it would be a revolution. It would change everything that we know. I mean, if you, you wouldn't have to cool your computer anymore. I mean, there's so many amazing results that this

Glenn Fleishman (02:13:52):
Yeah. There's so much loss. I mean, so much of the electrical system, and I was say in the United States, everywhere in the world there's so much electricity lost to just the, the friction. Friction and heat. Right? It's massive amount of the generation is wasted.

Leo Laporte (02:14:07):
There have been, you know, there's been some considerable spec skepticism as there should be, as there should be. And I, I don't, I'm not yet ready to say yes, they've come up with one, in fact. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I think we're a long way from knowing if that's the case. But it is interesting. 'cause If it, it happened, it would be quite remarkable.

Glenn Fleishman (02:14:24):
So this LK 99 people, people can just go get some from Amazon and try, there

Leo Laporte (02:14:29):
Was a try to out, what, what the story. There was a Russian anime fan <laugh> who says, oh, I

Glenn Fleishman (02:14:35):
Heard about this. She

Leo Laporte (02:14:36):
Created it. She was on the, she was on Twitter. And then she's disappeared. Oh, boy. There have been a lot of these, the soil scientists. Let's, let's get the confusion. Fix rush Soil Scientist, anime Cat Girl. Iris has been up for 72 hours trying to make it the I mean, it goes on and on. It's been a big thing on X, which is interesting. And that actually in, in my mind, makes it more suspect, frankly. <Laugh>. Yeah. But we'll watch, we'll watch with interest. And I just bring it up because it's another one of those things where skepticism is appropriate. I think that's the phrase is extraordinary. Results require extraordinary evidence. And this is, this would be extraordinary. So it would change everything. You'd have Maglev trains, and it's one of those things that could completely change mm-hmm. <Affirmative> the world as we know it. If it's easy and cheap to make. Speaking of ai, here's something AI does very well. Johnny Cash.

Speaker 7 (02:15:40):
Hello. I'm not Johnny Cash. Oh, dear. I ruined it.

Leo Laporte (02:15:45):
This is a AI Johnny Cash.

Speaker 7 (02:15:48):
I'm a Barbie girl in a Barbie world life in plastic. It is fantastic. You can,

Leo Laporte (02:15:57):
The voice model was trained by The Real Mockingbird, and the singing is by there. I ruined it. <Laugh>, which is a YouTube channel. It's pretty impressive. I

Glenn Fleishman (02:16:07):
Love, I look, I followed him on

Speaker 7 (02:16:09):
Instagram. This so funny. He's hysterical. Or she is

Leo Laporte (02:16:12):
A he.

Speaker 7 (02:16:13):
Yeah. The butterflies fly away

Leo Laporte (02:16:23):
<Laugh>. And I love the Folsom prisoners. Yeah. Who are really digging.

Speaker 7 (02:16:27):
There's a party in the

Leo Laporte (02:16:29):
<Laugh>. So very nicely done. But that's a good example of, yes, we heard that AI music. That was less than impressive, but that's pretty good. AI voice changing. Yeah. Would've fooled me. Yeah. oh, there we go. Anyway, that's our AI segment. <Laugh>. Now it's time for the Google Change log.

Speaker 8 (02:17:00):
The Google Change log.

Leo Laporte (02:17:05):
If you are a Android user and a Windows user, you can now do something called Nearby Share for Windows Airdrop. It's like Airdrop <laugh>, but it's for Windows and Android. Okay. So rich Campbell talked about it last week on Windows Weekly. He was taking pictures of his house, and as he took the pictures, it was automatically copying over to his windows machine from his Android device. Like tethering over Bluetooth and wifi, I guess YouTube TV is temporarily dropping the price by a few bucks. <Laugh>. Oh, really? Oh. Just for new users. New users, if you wanna try it, 65 bucks a month instead of the 73 bucks a month, you and I Oh dang. Are paying. It's very expensive. But I have to say, of all the streaming services that give you locals, this is my favorite. I I think it's really, well, mine is scheduled to resume in the next couple weeks.

(02:18:02):
'cause Of Sunday ticket. Well, no 'cause of football in general, I ain't paying for Sunday tickets. Look at Get Infil. It's too expensive. You see every game. That's way too expensive. All right. <Laugh> 250 bucks for the season. It's not enough. You have to be a big fan. Yeah, it, no, I got it. Because geez, <laugh>, you, you, you got it because you're testing it out for TWiG and that's it. Able to report back to us. No, I got it. Because while we can see every 49 ERs game, 'cause we're local. Yeah. There is a member of the family who's a Green Bay Packers fan, and he is awesome <laugh>. He's very much a fan. You see his man kick come over and see He is awesome. Anyway, Michael wants to see the Packers games, and that's how you see outta market games, right?

(02:18:43):
Every outta market game. We are going to Green Bay in September. I'm so jealous. <Laugh>, I'm so jealous. Gonna go see a Thursday night game between the Packers and the Lions. Oh, that's a divisional game. It's a divisional game. It's a traditional rivalry. Oh, I'm so jealous. And yeah, we're doing the tour, the, all of this stuff, sorry, everyone. The no idea what we're talking about. This is pretty big. <Laugh> Sport Ball. It's sport ball. CH oss, you, you like the Chrome oss, Mr. Jeff Jarvis. I do, do indeed split the browser from the operating system later this month. Mm. What does that mean? The code name LaRose, which I think is related to the Greek word for tears. But anyway, <laugh>, it's an effort. <Laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (02:19:30):
Which

Leo Laporte (02:19:30):
Should be, is an effort by Google, which would separate updates to the Chrome browser from the underlying operating system. And this is why it's good right now. That's cool. On promo, has to get an update to the browser. You have to update the whole operating system. Yeah. Oh, now you'll be able to just operate, update the browser as we all do on other platforms.

Ant Pruitt (02:19:46):
That'll really be a Linux machine, huh?

Leo Laporte (02:19:49):
Well, what's really good about it is once you get end of life on Chrome oss, you could still get an updated browser. Yeah. So it actually keeps those older Chromebooks working according to about Chromebooks, Google appears to be implementing Ros for stable users. With the 116 release. Google has not confirmed,

Ant Pruitt (02:20:08):
Oh, this would be good for the school systems that were Yes. In the news recently because of all of these old Chromebooks. If the, if the browser still works.

Leo Laporte (02:20:17):
Right. So there you go. That's good news for Chrome has got a bunch of new features. I'll give you a, a rundown of, of all of them. This is in the latest version of Chrome, which is what, one 19? I can't remember. You're gonna now four new Chrome mobile features. This is on your mobile device. It will give you, when you're on an eligible site on Chrome cmo, on iOS or Android, click the Chrome address bar. You'll see relevant search suggestions based on the site that you're on. It's kind of cool. So when you click the address bar, you'll see a section labeled related to this page with suggestions for other searches like here. You'll also be able to see what's trending. Just click in the just open a new tab. Tap the address bar, scroll down and see what's trending right there in the auto complete drop it down related searches. In touch to search. You can find related searches using Touch to Search. Say you're reading an article, you come across a topic you wanna learn more about touch to search. So like, double click the word as you see, they're looking at Lisbon here. And you'll get down below a knowledge graph with all of the other things you can do with, you know, these

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:36):
Are all neat, but it's a real UI problem is that you just don't know they

Leo Laporte (02:21:40):
Exist. Right. Who knows if you touch a word Right. It's gonna pop

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:44):
Up wonderful

Leo Laporte (02:21:44):
Things. Right. Well, I guess that's why Google has put out a blog post, but Yeah, it's, it's hard to find stuff like this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> this. Yeah. They

Ant Pruitt (02:21:53):
Should license that Madonna song. What is it? I touch my word. I

Leo Laporte (02:21:55):
Touch, I touch myself.

Ant Pruitt (02:21:57):
Raise your hand if you read the Google blog

Leo Laporte (02:21:59):
Regularly. Let's see. Download Bar being removed from Google Chrome as well. There's a new tray ui. There you go. The tray UI for a long time it would appear at the, I don't remember that. I don't use Chrome, so you're gonna have to tell me. But apparently at the bar at the bottom. No, I don't like Chrome. I use Firefox. I'm a real man. <Laugh> in a, it's good. Stacy's not here to punch me. There you would get this downloads of the p I guess in a bar at the bottom of Chrome. This is how everybody else does it. That's

Ant Pruitt (02:22:30):
What I see in Brave. So I thought that's what was happening in Chrome.

Leo Laporte (02:22:32):
That's what I see in Firefox too, but I guess it's now. Oh, you were just, it used to be down here, these little tabs. I

Ant Pruitt (02:22:38):
Remember that. I

Leo Laporte (02:22:39):
Remember. That's icky. I didn't like that. That's icky. So Google says that's no longer modern, interactive or consistent with the look and feel of the browser UIs or the browser ecosystem en large. So cool. Bye-Bye.

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:51):
Now. Remember when they'd sue each other over this kind of stuff?

Leo Laporte (02:22:54):
Yeah. You copied my download tray. Right?

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:57):
Right.

Leo Laporte (02:22:58):
Do you use SS g e yet? I haven't been able to get into the ss g e beta. I think this is the new What's s g e Google's new AI powered search. Generative experiment. Oh, that. No, I, they asked it at Google io. It's in Google Labs now. When you when you do a search query, you will also get images and videos. So as so TechCrunch says, if you're looking for tiniest birds of prey, which I search for all the time. Oh, okay. Or how to remove marble stains. You'll see pictures of birds or videos related to stain removal directly in generative search suggest Amazing.

Glenn Fleishman (02:23:36):
Amazing.

Jeff Jarvis (02:23:37):
By the way, you'll be amused when I was at Google looking at notebook lmm. Yeah. they said, oh, we, we will get you in now. We'll get you in now. And I said I have a workplace oh address. Oh no. I got to scream about it at

Ant Pruitt (02:23:53):
Google. The same old story. Huh? They

Leo Laporte (02:23:55):
Know. They know. Yep. They know. And this is really good news. Google and Apple have gotten together to, because there's an issue with air tags and other Bluetooth trackers being used to harass and stalk and track people without their knowledge. For a while, if you had an air tag, you put it in somebody's purse, let's say at a bar. And they didn't have an Apple phone, but had an Android phone. Yeah. It'd be no easy way for them to know they were being tracked. Now you're getting alerts. This is something Google announced io It is now out that a tracker, an unknown tracker, is traveling with you. If the device is found, bring it to the back of the phone. It can read it and it can give you more information. Maybe a serial number.

Ant Pruitt (02:24:34):
Yeah. I think the only around that was this service that Miss Higginbotham had offered to us a while back. That, that you had to install this.

Leo Laporte (02:24:43):
There was an app. Apple offered an app.

Glenn Fleishman (02:24:45):
An app. It didn't work very well. It doesn't automatically scan as the Yeah. I'm, you know, I have a book out about air tags and find my, if you can believe that I have a book out about everything. And I

Leo Laporte (02:24:56):
<Crosstalk> Now is this take a Take control book.

Glenn Fleishman (02:24:58):
Take control book. Yeah. You actually spun it off from another book that got way too big, big. So I took the find my part out because people have lots of questions, but I was, I was ecstatic when I saw that Google and Apple had done this. 'cause It's been one of the biggest complaints about it. And there's also, there's gonna be some issues like some people will remove the sound generating part of a air tag. Oh, there's

Leo Laporte (02:25:20):
These videos, so it won't beep at you. 'cause Air tags are supposed to beep at you as well. So there's

Glenn Fleishman (02:25:25):
The new spec, the spec they agreed on is gonna have essentially a, a counter venture not counter venture, what's the word? A a counter protective measure. If it doesn't produce sound, which you wouldn't know. There'll be other signals. So it, so which is, will it go, I think it'll also ping the device. Now help

Leo Laporte (02:25:43):
Me <laugh> help

Glenn Fleishman (02:25:44):
Me. It'll, it'll pinging the device to actually have the device do something instead of just making the sound. So

Leo Laporte (02:25:51):
What can it do if you took the sound out the speaker out?

Glenn Fleishman (02:25:54):
Oh, well, it'll, it's still, it'll start vibrating. So it'll it'll put a different alert up on the phone where right now it doesn't alert you on the phone. It just makes the sound. If it's moved after eight to 24 hours after

Leo Laporte (02:26:09):
There's unknown track alert is great. Is really the key to this. Its great. Yeah. And it should be built. This is

Glenn Fleishman (02:26:13):
Good. Everybody will be the same page for tracking.

Leo Laporte (02:26:15):
I've heard from people around the world listeners who say, yes, I've got it now. So presumably that will come to your Android device very soon. There is another update that would Google would update it's find my Device network so that you could use, find my device to locate missing things that had other third party B track Bluetooth trackers like tile, chipolo, pebble Bee or audio devices like the Pixel Buds, headphones from Sony and J B L. But Google says that update is on hold till later this year. They're working with Apple to to finalize the joint unwanted tracker alerts specification. So

Glenn Fleishman (02:26:57):
Latent, it's good,

Leo Laporte (02:26:59):
But the, the safety feature is coming out and that's important that somebody's tracking.

Glenn Fleishman (02:27:03):
Yeah. Everyone should be alerted if there's something moving with them. They're also, apple is finally in the next release. They're allowing you to share air air tag trackers with people in your family before, I think they felt there were too many privacy risks, right. That someone could use that to subvert whatever you know people stalking. And now it's like we have my wife put an air tag in the car that she normally drives. So anyone else in the family driving it, we get alerts. You know, you can eventually suppress those in the family group. So I'm just excited. This will be much more it's gonna make it a better ecosystem. It's safer.

Leo Laporte (02:27:33):
Prepare yourselves. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the bottom of the show is coming up next. That was the Google change log. <Laugh>. alright.

Glenn Fleishman (02:27:47):
The listeners are amazing.

Leo Laporte (02:27:48):
Yes. That's Joe. I'll tell you. It's all Joe, welcome to the bottom of the show. Joe is

Glenn Fleishman (02:27:53):
On top

Leo Laporte (02:27:53):
Of it. It's a new segment. I'm trying out where we put the really stupid stuff. <Laugh>. Wait, wait, wait. I wanna see the paddle again. He, he, he managed to create the paddle and that. Yeah, there's a twi paddle. Dude. Isn't that great? There

Glenn Fleishman (02:28:04):
Is, that's

Leo Laporte (02:28:05):
Really good news. No, he made it up. There's should he made it up as I'm saying. Yeah. I'm gonna send more printers and get that made up. Yeah, we can get that done. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. The s and m's. Great merch. Great merch. I like the holes in it. 'cause That improves the aerodynamically Of course. So I can really get a horse. Yeah. <laugh> do a cricket bat version of it too. Yeah, exactly. No, I, my teacher in second grade had a, had a paddle with holes in it. Oh, you're kidding. Slap the kids. Oh, that's terrible. Boo. So I know that at least bonito is big into magic The gathering, right?

Ant Pruitt (02:28:38):
No, that's Mr.

Benito (02:28:39):
John Ashton. I was once a semi-pro.

Leo Laporte (02:28:40):
Once. You were once a semi semi-pro in the nineties. Oh, wait a minute. What does that mean? You go around from town to town. Magic will travel.

Benito (02:28:47):
No, it's playing tournaments, but being sponsored by like a store or something.

Leo Laporte (02:28:50):
Wow. Semipro. Mr. Benito's magic, if you don't know is a card game. You, you buy the cards, they're foils. There's all sorts of fancy ones. You build your deck and then you play the game and it's actually pretty fun. They're the folks who make it the wizards of the coast, right? Is that the name of it? Wizards of the Coast? Yep, bro. Here in the Seattle. Here in the greater Seattle area. In the greater Seattle area. Made a one, only one of a kind magic card. The Ring of Soran, part of the Lord of the Rings magic, the gathering set. But there was only one, the hyper rare card was found last June. The owner has now sold it to Post Malone <laugh>. Hmm. Who? Apparently I had no idea. Mal Post Malone. The the music superstar with the face tattoos. You know him? Apparently a big magic fan. I have

Benito (02:29:46):
Idea. Who Post Malone is No

Leo Laporte (02:29:47):
Idea. You don't know? Well he's, he's actually, he <laugh> actually sounds better than he looks <laugh>, which sounds

Speaker 9 (02:29:55):
Kind of sweet. The whole, he's got this sweet, this whole article is kinda like, yeah. And he likes talking shop with the fans about, about magic, the coast content. It's cool

Benito (02:30:04):
To the coast. And he's great. Like, he's actually like a, seems like a really nice guy.

Leo Laporte (02:30:08):
Did he get the tents in prison and now he's reformed and he, he's better, or

Benito (02:30:13):
I, I, i dunno his backstory, but he seems to, well he went to

Leo Laporte (02:30:15):
Harvard, I'm sure. And yeah. Pardon me? Yale.

Ant Pruitt (02:30:20):
I say few.

Leo Laporte (02:30:20):
Oh, a Yale man. Oh no. Oh no. In any event, we don't know how much he paid for this card, but thought

Benito (02:30:29):
About 2 million. He

Leo Laporte (02:30:30):
Paid 2 million. Well, value overweight. We don't know if he $2 million.

Ant Pruitt (02:30:35):
I got a question about this. Okay. So does he actually pull this card out in gameplay, Mr.

Leo Laporte (02:30:41):
<Crosstalk>? Well, that's a good question. You can,

Benito (02:30:43):
You can, I mean it. Okay, so it's, but

Ant Pruitt (02:30:45):
Does that diminish

Leo Laporte (02:30:45):
The value instantly win?

Benito (02:30:47):
Wait, wait. The deal with the card is that it is a one of one in the, the art is the print. Okay. So it's got a serial number one of one, but you can get that same card mechanically in other packs. Like it's not the only one that does the thing that it does. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:31:00):
Ah, I see. So the functionality is not unique. Yeah, just the card. Just, just the here is a picture of Post Malone buying or I dunno, stealing the card from <laugh>. Aw. There's hug from the weird tattoo man. That's nice. That's cool. Yeah, that's very sweet. That's cool. Yeah. Post Malone now owns the eye of Sora. So he

Glenn Fleishman (02:31:28):
Basically, there was a time in the, oh, sorry. No, I was saying he basically bought the Jose Conseco rookie

Leo Laporte (02:31:33):
Card. That's kind of like that. Yeah, I see. Or the Honda.

Glenn Fleishman (02:31:36):
There was a time in the 1850s when all men like shaved off their beards I think, and suddenly like one generation language changed. They couldn't understand each other. Look, in 20 years everyone's gonna have face tattoos and you're gonna be like, what happened? I don't, when did this happen? <Laugh>, everybody's got face tattoos except me. The, the post post Malone era

Leo Laporte (02:31:54):
There is, you can definitely date sculptures of Roman emperors by whether they have a beard all, all of a sudden at one point. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they all grew beards, <laugh>. Caesar didn't have a beard. Augustus didn't have a beard. Coagula didn't have a beard. Kies didn't have, but so one point, I think it was around 200 ad they just all had beards. So maybe they'll judge our civilization by the face Tattoos <laugh> for that. I'm gonna get a little blue tear <laugh> right here. Just

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:27):
You don't want that. You don't want that.

Leo Laporte (02:32:28):
That's a prison tattoo, right? You

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:30):
Don't wanna do that. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:32:30):
Good point. What does it mean? Just get,

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:32):
Just get twit across your forehead. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:32:34):
I have twit across my butt. Does that count? It's very small. I have a small You don't <laugh>. I do. You don't believe me. Should I show it? It's not

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:44):
Quite your face.

Leo Laporte (02:32:45):
It's not my face.

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:46):
That's the, the paid channel.

Leo Laporte (02:32:48):
Yeah. Right. No judgment. I mean, you know, I'm a tat guy. I got tatts.

Glenn Fleishman (02:32:54):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:32:54):
That's great. But I just feel like getting a face tattoo is kind of saying like, I'm never gonna hold a normal job. Right. Right. It's like I'm not gonna be looking for work because,

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:04):
Well, that's what people said about regular tattoos for a while. Did

Leo Laporte (02:33:07):
They really? That's true.

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:08):
I a friend is a nurse who she couldn't get a job. She had to wear long sleeves like just a few years ago. Yeah. None the places all the hospitals required to wear long sleeves. These were just normal, you know, good looking tattoos. They weren't,

Leo Laporte (02:33:18):
Yeah. I think it's really funny. I was getting on board an airplane and, you know, they, the steward is taking the tickets and she's got kiss and tattooed <laugh> her thumb. She's very straight laced looking. And it's obviously, it was a, a youthful, a youthful indiscretion. Right. that's

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:34):
Great. <Laugh> this weak tat That's from the, you really, you

Leo Laporte (02:33:38):
Really ought think hard though about which band you get because, you know, fashion's change. Tattoos

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:44):
Don't, don't get, don't get red witting across your Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:33:49):
Come you forever. So most people have, have, and,

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:52):
And, Leo. Leo, where is your

Leo Laporte (02:33:54):
Tattoo? Shall we share on my, just above my butt?

Glenn Fleishman (02:33:57):
No, don't show

Leo Laporte (02:33:58):
It. I know. It's sort of on my butt. Don't show it. <Laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (02:34:01):
We all saw it happen on new cl.

Leo Laporte (02:34:03):
We have video of it getting getting tattooed. Amazing. Ira. I did it for unicef. That's what I That's right. Call raised money. Raised money. All right. It's for the, they did it for the kids. The children. Most people have on the idea of having Elon Musk come dig a big hole underneath your town, not Vegas.

Glenn Fleishman (02:34:23):
Or put a big X over it.

Leo Laporte (02:34:25):
The boring company. Yeah. Elon took that X down, by the way, from the Twitter building. Well, down, the boring company has done a deal with Las Vegas to dig 68 more miles of the hole. <Laugh>. So I've there is an active boring tunnel in Vegas right now. Takes you to Las Vegas Convention Center from I can't remember which hotel we stayed at. The hotel. I think it's out. It's the, one of the new hotels. I can't remember which one. Anyway, you can go down and for a buck 50, the original idea was, you know, it was gonna be a pressurized vacuum, and you'd be in this bullet that would go at supersonic speeds, <laugh>. And he was gonna, he was trying to sell it to New York to Washington. 29 minutes.

Glenn Fleishman (02:35:11):
Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:35:13):
That's not how this works. You're actually, you get in a model Y with a driver, three people in the car, and you go about 45 miles an hour over a bumpy road. <Laugh>

Glenn Fleishman (02:35:23):
That tunnel where there's no exits. Should, should one of these. Oh, yeah. Lithium ion batteries going on fire. That was my problem when I was in Paris. I was in Paris recently. My, the, my kids said, let's go do the catacombs. I'm like, I wanna do that. Once in my life. Went and did it. You know, you're 168 steps below Paris. It's water's dripping. It's really narrow. There's bones all around you. So prefer that to the idea of getting in this level.

Leo Laporte (02:35:48):
I'd rather be in the catacombs with corpses than going boring <laugh>. Is that what you're saying? Gong always

Glenn Fleishman (02:35:54):
Said the Westgate.

Leo Laporte (02:35:55):
They said, yeah. Westgate. That's it. Was that the Westgate? Was it? No, no. It's that new resort world that they built. Remember, it was a big hole for a long time in Las Vegas, and there's three new hotels in there. It's was that resort Worlds. Resorts World. Resorts world. And and Lisa and I were staying there for some reason, and we were some event. And I saw it and I decided I declined. Yeah. I said, Lisa, we should do this so we can talk about it. Then I thought, and didn't you

Glenn Fleishman (02:36:22):
Get there? I was like no.

Leo Laporte (02:36:24):
60 68 miles. The Las Vegas city council voted unanimously to approve the

Glenn Fleishman (02:36:30):
Wait, wait, wait. Forgive me for this joke. But how come it's not 69 miles with Musk <laugh>? I mean, it's right there. How did he know? Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:36:41):
It does seem like that. He missed a bet. Huh?

Glenn Fleishman (02:36:43):
I just don't

Leo Laporte (02:36:44):
Get it. Yeah. I don't, I don't. What I don't get is why the Las Vegas went along with this. The city council unanimously approved the boring companies plan to dig more tunnels under the city. 68 miles of tunnels. 81 stations still be Tesla electric vehicles serving them, carrying three passengers at once. <Laugh>

Glenn Fleishman (02:37:09):
My CS travel days would enjoy the idea of less traffic. But there

Leo Laporte (02:37:14):
Be Well, that's what happened. Elon stuck in traffic and he said, oh, we should just dig a hole underneath. Yeah. just to put it into context the boring company says it can do about at peak 4,500 people an hour, a subway train near, near you, Jeff can carry a thousand people a train. So, you know, and eight minutes can do that. Many people, they, he basically reinvented

Jeff Jarvis (02:37:38):
This staffing is wildly different. Well, he didn't he admit that the whole Hyperloop was just BSS to kill the train in California?

Leo Laporte (02:37:45):
Yeah, maybe. Yeah. You never know. Was it, this

Glenn Fleishman (02:37:48):
Article says he claims it's transported 1.15 million passengers.

Leo Laporte (02:37:52):
That's a lot over that.

Glenn Fleishman (02:37:54):
That's not possible. I did the math over since 2021, there'll be a thousand passengers a day. That's possible.

Leo Laporte (02:38:00):
It shuts down at five o'clock. <Laugh>. There's no way. Yeah. It's not, it is

Jeff Jarvis (02:38:05):
Not drivers for the

Leo Laporte (02:38:06):
Day of Yeah. It's not a

Glenn Fleishman (02:38:08):
Hundred passengers. It's not

Leo Laporte (02:38:09):
Jammed. It's not jammed. It really, and even in the

Jeff Jarvis (02:38:12):
Control of the tunnel where you think he could do finally do driverless driving. Of course. No.

Glenn Fleishman (02:38:19):
No, he's not. He's not gonna ever build it. He's got so many boring companies. If you're

Speaker 10 (02:38:22):
The parent of a young child,

Leo Laporte (02:38:23):
And this finally, I was so disappointed to learn is is a, is a fake, my first ankle

Speaker 10 (02:38:31):
Monitor. You the parent of a young child, and you're not getting enough sleep at night. I'm betting it's because your children will not stay in their room. That was my problem too. Until recently when I found this ankle monitor in Walmart. This brand, the Godsends

Leo Laporte (02:38:43):
Little yikes. Oh my

Jeff Jarvis (02:38:45):
Gosh.

Leo Laporte (02:38:46):
Monitor <laugh>. Of course, you gotta screw it in so they can't take it off.

Glenn Fleishman (02:38:49):
Toddler, the guy who makes these is he makes fake products and he puts them into stores and his work is so beautiful using their

Speaker 10 (02:38:57):
App, you can specify a timeout zone, which is the room where your child is supposed to.

Jeff Jarvis (02:39:01):
It's brilliant. Oh,

Speaker 10 (02:39:02):
It's sort of like house arrest.

Leo Laporte (02:39:04):
It's sort of

Speaker 10 (02:39:06):
For extra safety. I'm gonna do the whole house.

Leo Laporte (02:39:09):
The kid can't go anywhere

Speaker 10 (02:39:10):
Else. Yeah. Whenever my little juvenile delinquent sneaks out of his room to get a notification on my phone. From this point, there's several different approaches on how to handle the situation, such as screaming at them from your bed or bargaining with them to get back in their room. My favorite is to employ the built-in electrical impulse training tool.

Leo Laporte (02:39:27):
<Laugh> <laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (02:39:31):
It's very therapeutic.

Leo Laporte (02:39:33):
This is Leg Boot legit on TikTok <laugh>. And

Glenn Fleishman (02:39:38):
He's

Leo Laporte (02:39:38):
It's really good. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (02:39:40):
What's his name? His handle on Instagram is I found him some months ago, and his work is really beautiful. It's what is the handle? It's he does just incredible design work to make this work. Oh. Shampoo with, I guess three O's in shampoo on Instagram.

Leo Laporte (02:39:59):
Oh, okay. It's so this guy's a different guy, but he does the same, same thing here.

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:03):
The same, here's

Leo Laporte (02:40:04):
Half inch copper fittings, <laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:06):
It's so great. It was the, a a the whole thing about one of the first pieces of Kna form was a about a merchant.

Leo Laporte (02:40:14):
Oh. I mean his, so That's funny. That's a good hoot then. Yeah. It's me, Mesopotamia ISS best quality copper race since 1750 B c e <laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:24):
The feedback card is Clay. So you can write your own C form. Oh, yeah. Response to send in.

Leo Laporte (02:40:29):
Oh my God is

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:30):
Brilliant. So he'll post these videos that are done straight, like as if it's a real thing. And then he posts his behind the scenes thing about how he made them and his, his Photoshop and actual manufacturing skills are phenomenal. Impressive.

Leo Laporte (02:40:42):
Very fun. Impressive. That's, that's, wow.

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:44):
I actually, you know, you look at some people, you're like, man, some people have all the time in the world. I'm like, no, this guy is making art. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:40:50):
He's doing something. It's,

Glenn Fleishman (02:40:51):
Yeah. Wonderful. These

Leo Laporte (02:40:52):
Are lips you put on bugs to make them look like <laugh>, like people <laugh>. I dunno why you would wanna do that. <Laugh>. embrace the pain. Champagne. Champagne for singles. <Laugh>, my God. Ooh. Includes foam lips for kissing at midnight. <Laugh>. All right. All right. Very nice. Very nice. What's high Bob? Stand for? Hello? Robert <laugh>. I like that. Hello, Robert. Yeah. I don't get the job. You probably never watched the Robert Newhart show. Remember? Hi Bob. Hi Bob. Hi, Bob. All three. That's a drinking game. They would, anytime they said, hi, Bob, you were supposed to take a hit Classic. The

Glenn Fleishman (02:41:40):
Bob Newt show. Newt

Leo Laporte (02:41:42):
<Laugh>

Glenn Fleishman (02:41:43):
Was there. The

Leo Laporte (02:41:44):
Bob,

Glenn Fleishman (02:41:45):
The Bob Newhart show. Newhart and then Bob. He got all variations of his

Leo Laporte (02:41:49):
Name. Yes. Oh, that's right. He did, didn't he? I, I didn't even think of that. Such a good show. Yeah. <laugh>, here's one that's appropriate for Google. This is a a little a award. Google won first person to Google the phrase <laugh>. Is it legal to take pigeons from the park for free? <Laugh> February 15th, 2022. I love it that Google gives those awards. I think that's, that's great. I want to get that for Craig <laugh>. Oh gosh. Some people are just too funny. Yeah, too good. He's got seven of 'em. Here's another one. First person to Google the phrase, fun or profitable things to do with 237 pigeons, Mr. Newmark. And then here's another one. Can you make kopi lulac from other animals like pigeons, <laugh>, <laugh>, number of coffee beans a pigeon can eat in 24 hours. Oh boy, that's scary. How to stop hyperactivity and excessive pooping in a caffeinated pigeons, <laugh>. And finally, tax prep help. Does the i r s consider poop a taxable asset if people buy it? It is from, by the way, nice word, <laugh>. You gotta send that to Mr. Newmart. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Final one was defense lawyers specializing in pigeon law. <Laugh>.

Glenn Fleishman (02:43:29):
That's, I mean, good use of the pandemic.

Leo Laporte (02:43:30):
I love it that there are creative people out there doing stuff like that. That's the

Jeff Jarvis (02:43:34):
Beauty of this thing we call the internet. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:43:37):
Yeah. Right. How else would you do that before? Absolutely. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:43:40):
Do funny things and share.

Leo Laporte (02:43:41):
Well, you could do it and you could put it up in the town square, but no one would see it.

Jeff Jarvis (02:43:45):
Notice

Leo Laporte (02:43:46):
Unless you're Martin Luther, in which case people go, Hey, nice job. Not Martin. Martin Luther. Yes. Martin Luther, Bob, Bobby Luther, Luther Bob,

Glenn Fleishman (02:43:56):
Bob Newhart, Martin Luther

Leo Laporte (02:43:57):
<Laugh>. Gotta get the name right. Bob Luther. Jeff I've come to the end of all the things I wanted to talk about. Is there anything in here that I've left out? Oh, let's see here. Let's see. Most of these I felt were really worthless, but but if there's something, Hey, <laugh>. Hey, <laugh>. Hey. No, I moved the good stuff up into the yeah, you did.

Jeff Jarvis (02:44:17):
You did. We mentioned a couple of them. I real quick. Amazon is gonna expand it's virtual Health Planet. I'm gonna try it. Have you,

Leo Laporte (02:44:24):
I'm curious. So it's virtual though, right? They're not actual physicians. It's all

Jeff Jarvis (02:44:29):
50 states now.

Leo Laporte (02:44:31):
Amazon bought one Medical, which was not virtual, was Concierge Healthcare. They've been expanding their health, their interest in all of this. The online giant today announced con consumers in 50 states and DC will be able to easily access licensed clinicians via video visits for more than 30 common health concerns, such as pink eye and urinary tract infections. Remember, Amazon also has a pharmacy so they probably could prescribe pills would come to you from the yeah. Customers can choose to fill their medication in Amazon Pharmacy with free shipping or any other pharmacy.

Glenn Fleishman (02:45:12):
My wife said they're gonna get their health detail or my health details outta me or my dead body.

Leo Laporte (02:45:16):
Yeah. Really, it feels like that. We'd like you to fill out this questionnaire mm-hmm. <Affirmative> before we can treat

Jeff Jarvis (02:45:23):
You Well. It's also how, how HIMSS is doing it. Right. All the, all the mail

Leo Laporte (02:45:26):
Stuff. Yeah. There's a lot of online stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Amazon also really pushing on whole Foods. They really want to get apparently into the grocery business. That was one of the stories we're gonna

Glenn Fleishman (02:45:37):
Get diagnosed in Whole Foods. We go the checker and say, I can't lift my

Leo Laporte (02:45:40):
Arm like this <laugh>, you know what, Lisa got her Covid shots at Safeway. I don't see any reason. Yeah, sure. You know, not to

Glenn Fleishman (02:45:46):
I'd like, I'd like this bottle box of Ho Hos and a Covid

Leo Laporte (02:45:49):
Shot. <Laugh> let us do our picks of the week. And I Did you prepare anything for us? You don't have to, Glen. It's not a requirement.

Glenn Fleishman (02:46:01):
I, I've got a thing. It's sort of a generic thing though, so I don't know. It's a little generic's

Leo Laporte (02:46:05):
Good. I'll

Glenn Fleishman (02:46:05):
Take it. I've flown so much since last, I hadn't flown for three years, and I just did like a, I don't know, 25,000 miles in the last like two, two week trips. Wow. And I realized, gosh, you know, the, the removal of airline change fees on a lot of airlines, which I didn't even know what happened. It had happened while I was asleep, apparently. Hmm. So you can change your flight with no cost except the, or they, you know, refund you the difference or they charge you more, whatever. But there's no change. Fee makes life so much easier when booking and doing things. Coupled with the airline apps are now sort of good, like Alaska. Yeah. And United, I've flown them. And during the flight it's like, here's how long your flight's going on. Here's what's happening. You know, all the stuff is in the app or on a website and is where your plane

Jeff Jarvis (02:46:48):
Is coming from.

Glenn Fleishman (02:46:50):
Yeah. If it's late. And wow. Did I have so much better of an experience these last rounds of flights than I think I had for an enormous number of years? I mean, I do have, you know, I got a Nexus, which includes TSA pre, which I nexus is easy if you're near a border, but tsa, pre plus apps, plus wifi on planes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> plus no fees for, you know, changing your flight. And I'm like, this is a whole, this is a whole different world. I mean, they still charge you through the nose for things and the flight costs are higher. But I don't know. I felt like the whole thing was a much more pleasurable experience.

Leo Laporte (02:47:25):
Airlines used to charge $150 or $200 to change flights. Yeah. During COVID, they eliminated those fees and they, it didn't hurt 'em. So they just said, alright. I think it was Delta who first said, yeah, we're never bringing 'em back. Ah. And then, oh, well

Jeff Jarvis (02:47:39):
I thought it was 'cause I had a business class ticket. I bought, I bought it with Miles. Well,

Leo Laporte (02:47:42):
There are they, there always are or often are. Especially if you buy online super low fares where you're stuck. Right. Right. Not non-refundable, but if you have a normal ticket everything except basic economy, you can with Delta, American, United, Alaska, and Hawaiian, they've all ended to change

Glenn Fleishman (02:48:00):
Fees. Yeah. Creditable. Right. If you have a higher, you can pay. I also like the, I think Alaska will often say like, Hey, look for a hundred bucks more, this ticket can be fully refundable, not just as credit. Right, right. And with my kid was you know, going to, to look at schools. He's doing interviews and auditions at schools, colleges and so forth. We did a bunch of the, and with Covid, you know, sometimes you have to cancel the flight. So, anyway, I, I hate to say it, but air, air travel, despite how crowded everything was and everything going on I had a bunch of pleasant flights and was able to change flights. And it was all very much less stressful than I expected. Good on you. After so many years. I'm so

Jeff Jarvis (02:48:34):
Glad you It was funny. I, so I went to, to St. Andrews and then London and then back, and then Boston and then California and then back. You

Glenn Fleishman (02:48:41):
Did more than me, that's for sure.

Jeff Jarvis (02:48:42):
And well, no, the thing is I agree. Everything went off smoothly. Nice. I didn't have any problems. I changed a flight. It was all, but I still had all of the tension, all the worry.

Glenn Fleishman (02:48:51):
Oh yeah. You gotta let it, it's, we, we were booked as a family to go to Paris in June. And as we are on light rail towards the airport, we get a notification of delays, which means we'll miss our flight. I get on the phone with mileage plus a wonderful man there has rebooked us, found us four seats together on a flight, on a different itinerary. That gets us to Paris just an hour later while we're on light rail. We get to the airport, we're like, how did, what world are we living in, in, which is possible. It's nice. So

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:18):
It was, it was probably a computer you were talking to and didn't know it. That's

Glenn Fleishman (02:49:22):
Right. He was so lovely though. Perhaps,

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:23):
So. I don't, that's why he was nice. Yes.

Leo Laporte (02:49:25):
<Laugh>, not all airlines eliminate change fees. The low cost airline spirit and Frontier still will charge you change fees. I think JetBlue still charges change fees, so don't assume check with your airline. Yeah. But that's a good, a good get. Thank you. I'm gonna

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:41):
Lose all my status next year on you United.

Leo Laporte (02:49:43):
Aw. Aw. It's be so sad. Same

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:46):
Just to pull the in.

Leo Laporte (02:49:47):
I never had any status. Jeff, your number,

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:52):
Well, we should mention this real quickly, off, off the bat, is that Facebook has surpassed 3 billion monthly active

Leo Laporte (02:49:56):
Users. Isn't that amazing? What a number

Jeff Jarvis (02:49:59):
3 billion

Leo Laporte (02:49:59):
I'd like to highlight M Aus that's half the population of the world almost. Right? That's amazing. Yeah. Almost. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:50:09):
Good on. So I would like to highlight a really, really good post by our friend Yo Roth up the line, something other. Yeah, I saw,

Leo Laporte (02:50:16):
That's why I was running late to the show. You were reading that <laugh>. Oh, well then I should have done it. You, we spent all the energy,

Jeff Jarvis (02:50:22):
You actually invested

Leo Laporte (02:50:23):
In it. This is in law, the Lawfare blog@lawfaremedia.org.

Jeff Jarvis (02:50:27):
So, so the, the, the, the, the bottom line is that Yoel, who's who was the head of safety, trust, and safety at, at Twitter, and tried to stay and tried to fix it and, and finally couldn't take anymore and left. He's absolutely brilliant and and expert. I trust as much as anyone on this. But he tells the story of the Chrissy Tigan. Tegan Donald Trump. What?

Leo Laporte (02:50:48):
Teagan.

Jeff Jarvis (02:50:49):
Tegan. Thank you. See, if we were German, it'd be Tigen.

Leo Laporte (02:50:52):
Yeah. I ski before I, except after G

Glenn Fleishman (02:50:55):
Oh, Chrissy. My Twitter friend, ex friend, I guess. Ah,

Leo Laporte (02:50:59):
Not anymore.

Jeff Jarvis (02:51:00):
I see. Now you deserted her. You had, I'm terrible. So, so the the Donald Trump versus Chrissy Tegan tweet. Do I have to say the, can I say the

Leo Laporte (02:51:11):
Words here? No, we know what it, we know what it was. No one needs to re It was

Jeff Jarvis (02:51:14):
A P word. A

Leo Laporte (02:51:14):
Word, B word. It was a bad, bad phrase.

Jeff Jarvis (02:51:17):
Right. And so the argument that they had in the, the, the, the, the, the, the Solomonic arguments they had, they had a three insult rule of Twitter. 'cause If you just make one insult, oh, you'll get over it. Kids. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> two, we get over, but three insults, they would act on it. So they actually had debates within Twitter, whether p word, a word, B word was three insults. And then Yoel said he sat down and he and he diagrammed the sentence. Yeah. He had the flowchart. Right. I did the P word modified the A word, which in turn modified the B word. There was

Leo Laporte (02:51:50):
Two adjectives in for those reasons there. Yes.

Jeff Jarvis (02:51:53):
Yes. So they didn't take it down. There could have been a, actually, there should have been a hyphen, I think between the B

Leo Laporte (02:51:57):
Word and the A word

Jeff Jarvis (02:51:58):
<Laugh>. So they didn't take it down. But that's the kind when people think, oh, why don't, why don't the pattern platforms just deal with this stuff? Why don't they take it all down? Why can't they just deal with this? Yeah. The new, yes, that was the then president of the United States and a famous star. But even so, the, the, the debate and the nuance and the, and, and the angels and devils on the heads of pins that they have to go through is just amazing to me. So I just wanted to throw that as, and they have to do

Ant Pruitt (02:52:26):
It quickly. That's the thing. They have to do this stuff quickly too. Yes.

Jeff Jarvis (02:52:30):
Which is what the, the Mike Masek game showed us. So at the end, what, what what Yoel says is we got into a governance mode where the platforms acted like they were government, which is true. They're expected to act like government. And he's proposing that instead, there should be an ombudsman role not unlike in a way the oversight board, but but different in the sense that you have someone who's they're gonna make judgements. And I said, it's more like the bartender role. The bartender decides No, as, as somebody said to me when I said this on, on mask, done, it's, you don't have to go home, but you can't be here anymore. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:53:04):
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:53:05):
Right.

Leo Laporte (02:53:06):
I do this on Mastodon, on Archit social all the time. I had seven reports yesterday. And I ha I mean, in my, it's, it's set up. So it's in my so judgment, and I think it's a, it's not as hard as it sounds. I was three

Jeff Jarvis (02:53:22):
Of those, wasn't I of

Leo Laporte (02:53:23):
Were three of them when some, you were three of them, all of

Jeff Jarvis (02:53:25):
A sudden they got very inappropriate

Leo Laporte (02:53:27):
Messages. But your I but yours, I did suspend those accounts, but then there were some others where it was just somebody getting in an argument with somebody and he can call me names or whatever. And the nice thing is, in my mind, Masten has the ability to block an individual or, or or block the whole instance from your feeds. And and I, so I feel like rather than blocking somebody globally for insulting you I think it's on the onus is on you to say, well, I'm not not gonna engage with that person anymore. Anyway. I, I don't find these all that difficult. I guess I'm not running a nationally,

Ant Pruitt (02:54:02):
But that's the thing. You just said seven tickets there. What if that was 7,000 tickets?

Leo Laporte (02:54:07):
Right. Well, that's the nice thing about Mastodon is, is I have a 3000 member Mastodon mm-hmm. <Affirmative> so I can individually manage it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So in my, that would be

Jeff Jarvis (02:54:16):
A lot of really mean and angry people for 3000 people to produce 7,000 tickets. Yeah. Yeah. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:54:21):
No. So, but that's the, I think scale has a lot to do with it. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:54:24):
Yeah. It does. And I think a new smaller scale is what's gonna make this make sense. Yeah. And that's not to say there aren't,

Leo Laporte (02:54:29):
If the bar had a hundred thousand people and in a bartender couldn't do either,

Ant Pruitt (02:54:33):
Bartender couldn't do

Leo Laporte (02:54:33):
It. It's not about the style or the ombudsman. It's about scale.

Jeff Jarvis (02:54:37):
Yep. Well, somebody came to me a mashed on and said, well, no, the bar analogy doesn't work. 'cause The bartender can't see you can't see everything going on. I said, even in a bartender, the bartender doesn't see everything going on. Nope. If somebody's getting loud in the corner or somebody comes and complains, they don't wanna

Ant Pruitt (02:54:49):
Deals with it, they get 'em out. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:54:51):
Yeah. You have a bouncer.

Leo Laporte (02:54:53):
Right. Well, anyway, yeah. I mean, I kind of like human scale stuff. I think part of the problem with this is the scale is unmanageable. It's just period. I mean, 3 billion, I argue billion, billion users on Facebook. It's unmanageable. You can't hire enough people. That's <laugh>. There's an, the other half of the population has to manage the f the first half of the It's I Possibility theorem. Yeah. Snicks Impossibility theorem. Is that a real thing? Hmm.

Jeff Jarvis (02:55:22):
Oh yeah. It is. It is you that that, that content moderation of scale is an impossibility.

Leo Laporte (02:55:26):
Yeah. Oh, well see, Mike was there first as always. As always as always.

Jeff Jarvis (02:55:31):
That and the Streisand effect, which I didn't realize

Leo Laporte (02:55:34):
He invented that.

Jeff Jarvis (02:55:36):
That's what it that's Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:55:37):
Says in the New York Times. He did, huh? Yeah. Huh.

Jeff Jarvis (02:55:42):
It's a very masnick thing to have

Leo Laporte (02:55:43):
Invented. It is Mr. Amp Pruitt, what's your thing?

Ant Pruitt (02:55:48):
My thing of the week is leaning up to an event that's coming up here soon with us here at twit. And it's basically a quick shout out to one of our members, Mr. Joe Brood. I know. Is he the guy

Leo Laporte (02:56:01):
Who does all those stickers and buttons?

Ant Pruitt (02:56:04):
No, no, no, no. That's, that's,

Leo Laporte (02:56:05):
That's, that's the other Joe. That's Esposito. Joe Esposito. So there's two Joes.

Ant Pruitt (02:56:08):
Joe Brood is the, the Leica man. Ah,

Leo Laporte (02:56:10):
Or Arvin mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. Or New York City Street photographer.

Ant Pruitt (02:56:13):
Yeah. Heck of a photographer. And, and, and I know I always have on my lower third.com/prince,

Leo Laporte (02:56:20):
He,

Ant Pruitt (02:56:20):
He could shoot. So go check out his prints too.

Leo Laporte (02:56:22):
I love his stuff.

Ant Pruitt (02:56:23):
So we put it here in the show note. Shout out to Joe <inaudible>, thank you for your support. Yeah. And

Leo Laporte (02:56:30):
One of our great club,

Jeff Jarvis (02:56:31):
The bridge.

Leo Laporte (02:56:32):
Oh, no, we had to show me that. I'm gonna send you that as a guest. So would you like that? Would you like that?

Ant Pruitt (02:56:38):
See, I did do that. That was, that was Mr. Laporte.

Leo Laporte (02:56:41):
I did that.

Ant Pruitt (02:56:42):
And speaking of Joe, because in the club, we, we have a scheduled photo walk coming up, and Mr. Joe has also volunteered for anyone in the New York tri-state area. I guess he's willing to host a photo walk as well for a members there, so. Wow.

Leo Laporte (02:57:01):
Oh, that's cool.

Ant Pruitt (02:57:02):
So let me know. I, I try to there inside of our Discord. So let me know if you all are interested in that, and I can get you all in touch with Mr. Joe. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (02:57:13):
Yeah. I think, I think there's a lot of possibility there. And just in, in club terms, having seen who came out to our events in Boston and Oh yeah. London mm-hmm. <Affirmative> London. And then mine in San Francisco is, I think that localized Club twit gatherings.

Leo Laporte (02:57:28):
We are gonna, I, I've not mentioned this, but we were gonna probably do one in Green Bay on that Friday. Oh, good idea. Yeah. When we're out there, Lisa and I have been planning that. And I think we're gonna do another one. There's another place we're gonna be, so Yeah. Whenever I go somewhere, we like to try to do that if we can, but I agree. We are, community is fantastic. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. And our club members, especially, those are the people who, from the goodness of their harp, pay seven bucks a month. Yep. to support what we do. Now, they, they get some benefits, but I really, it's, the whole point of it is, if you like what we do and you want to see us keep doing it and develop new con content join the club. You get ad free versions of all the shows, so there's no trackers. You also get all the events that we do in Discord. The discord itself is enough to me to judge for work for seven bucks a month. I mean, it's just fantastic. But Jason, tomorrow's going to do some more prototyping of his untitled AI show. You're gonna do that photo thing we talked about on Friday.

Ant Pruitt (02:58:28):
Yep. Photo critiques, Friday

Leo Laporte (02:58:30):
Photo walk, you mentioned End of the month. Stacey's book Club end of the month, the fireside chat with Dan, with Hugh Howie, who wrote Wool, the Silo books. And Daniel Suarez has written so many great books. That's gonna be fun. Lou Meeska and and Anthony Nielsen. And more events to come. Yep. All of this is part of our discord.

Ant Pruitt (02:58:52):
And, and now coming in December, a triangulation with the old farts

Leo Laporte (02:58:57):
Oh yeah. Old fart angulation. Yeah. That

Jeff Jarvis (02:59:00):
I got, I got, I'm the first one to get a major club benefit of the possibility here, where an insisted that I had to take it with me, even though I tried not to.

Leo Laporte (02:59:09):
Yes. Stick as stickers. Stick as we we can't, we don't have the ability to do fulfillment through our number full club, so we can't do that. But We'll, if you come over and visit, we'll give you a

Ant Pruitt (02:59:22):
Sticker. You send a self-addressed stamp to the studio

Leo Laporte (02:59:25):
<Laugh>. We'll figure out a way.

Ant Pruitt (02:59:27):
Don't

Glenn Fleishman (02:59:27):
Say that. Don't say that.

Leo Laporte (02:59:29):
I'm sorry. I'll

Ant Pruitt (02:59:30):
Send yourself dress stamp

Leo Laporte (02:59:33):
It. That should be this big, right? We'll,

Ant Pruitt (02:59:34):
We'll,

Leo Laporte (02:59:34):
We'll fix it. Manila. Eight and a half by 11 manila folder. We, oh,

Ant Pruitt (02:59:38):
No, you should, we sent out some today. Did we? Our continuity staff. Okay. Did, did some today. So thank you

Leo Laporte (02:59:44):
Squad. Join the club, twit TV slash club twit. We love our community. We'd love you to be part of it. And we just thank we, thank you for listening too. Glenn Fleischman is at G L E N N. Do fun 'cause he's a fun guy. As opposed to a fungus, which is something else. Entirely <laugh>. Always great to have you on. Glen. Thank you for being here. We really appreciate. Thanks

Glenn Fleishman (03:00:08):
For having

Leo Laporte (03:00:09):
Me. Stacy, you'll be back next week. Tell us about another podcast. You do.

Glenn Fleishman (03:00:15):
Oh gosh, what else do I do? I work, I'm up here on the Incomparable Network.

Leo Laporte (03:00:19):
I've heard of them. Dirty podcasts. Did you go to the Portland event?

Glenn Fleishman (03:00:22):
Of course. The Portland event. The first time the incomparable group has ever gotten together. Together in a mass in person. I was on press in Maine, so Oh, well, we, we'll date. So I had, I had the fomo. I had the fomo, but a bunch of lovely people.

Leo Laporte (03:00:39):
Micah got to go 'cause he does clockwise for the incomparable. Yes. Yeah.

Glenn Fleishman (03:00:43):
Yes. Micah. I never met Micah. I've met, I've met some of the incomparable group in person. Most of 'em I only know as people on a screen or as their voices. Yeah. But it's a good group. You know, you might know one, Mr. Jason Snell, possibly. He's an acquaintance of yours.

Leo Laporte (03:00:56):
Heard of. Which shows are you on of the

Glenn Fleishman (03:01:00):
I host at a regular intervals pants. The Boot, which is a podcast about how English varies different. Oh, I love that. It's mostly, it's mostly just fun stuff. We're a little, I'm a little behind and I know the last episode was last year, so I possibly a little behind on doing the episodes. But there are archives. And then I'm on the main podcast on the game. We have a game show episode. I was, I think I did 11 in a row of game show episodes last year. It was a pandemic, you know, it was

Leo Laporte (03:01:29):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

Glenn Fleishman (03:01:30):
People had gotten enough of me. I think

Leo Laporte (03:01:32):
The incomparable.com Great stuff.

Glenn Fleishman (03:01:35):
Great network.

Leo Laporte (03:01:35):
Truly geeky people. Yeah. Thank you, Glenn. I appreciate it. Thank you. And we'll be back, of course, next Wednesday with mm-hmm. <Affirmative> This Week in Google and in the club. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> on Friday. Yes, sir. You can do your photo critique.

Ant Pruitt (03:01:48):
Yep. Looking forward

Leo Laporte (03:01:49):
To it. 4:00 PM Pacific.

Ant Pruitt (03:01:50):
Just go ahead and jump into the Discord and put your images there. And I am marking them so I can make sure, I can either download 'em or pull 'em up during the chat one way or another so we can talk about 'em. And going to open up the stage. And if you're feeling, you know confident enough to be on the camera, hop on to the stage and turn your camera on. And let's chitchat about the images too. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. 4:00 PM Pacific Friday. August the fourth. And also, one more shout out. I wanted to give a shout out to Kathy Lou. Henry Harry Williams was on my show previously and he's here in the area, a great photographer here in the area. And he has reached out to me before to mc at some of his events here in the city. And every time they've happened, I've been either out of town or in this instance, I will be doing our own twit photo

Leo Laporte (03:02:40):
Walk. Oh, it's August 26th. Oh, shoot. So

Ant Pruitt (03:02:44):
I said I appreciate the love. And this looks like a great event that's gonna be in San Francisco, featuring Kathy Li light, light Painting by Kathy Liu. Nice. Is the show.

Leo Laporte (03:02:57):
More information at Eventbrite. Just search ABR Eventbrite for C A t H Y L I U. Jeff Jarvis is and will always be the director of the Town Night Center for Entrepreneurial Journalism at the Craig Newmar Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York. Please buy his book, the Gutenberg parenthesis at Gutenberg. It's back in stock. Sold out. It's back in the second printing. That's great.

Ant Pruitt (03:03:25):
Nice.

Leo Laporte (03:03:27):
Thank you for being here, Mr. Jeff. Thank you. Thank you again for last week and all the hospitality. Oh, it was really nice. See you. We had a lovely dinner. And I have pictures, actually, I think I have pictures of Ant

Ant Pruitt (03:03:38):
<Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (03:03:40):
You do? That's right. Devouring

Glenn Fleishman (03:03:42):
A thank

Leo Laporte (03:03:43):
You. Some sort of dad playing Henry VIII <laugh>. Yeah. No, I don't have it on here. I don't have it on there. No. Oh, good. Sorry. Well, the story is from all

Glenn Fleishman (03:03:53):
Your devices. Somehow

Ant Pruitt (03:03:54):
We went to the great restaurant

Leo Laporte (03:03:57):
Here around the corner from the Studio, cafe Ra, Italian restaurant, and everybody was ordering their, their meals. You know, this risotto, this salad, blah, blah, blah. I said, for Dash, give me the ossobuco. And Oh, there it is. <Laugh>. Give me Buco. You like the buco? I'm here to eat. It's here. Tosa. Blame it on the Buca Buco. It's not the Bossanova, it's the Buco. And it, I like that shirt. Delicious. Yes. That's one of my favorite shirts. I That shirt a lot. No, it should say Yes. Tells it Yes. To the Buco. Yes. Mm-hmm. <Laugh>. It was delicious. Well, you did video. Well, I, by accident, you know, it's one of those where I thought I was taking a picture. It's funny. Last night I had Ossobuco, but it wasn't that was good. Ossobuco. I made it just with Beef Shank. Mm-Hmm. Last night.

(03:04:50):
So bad. That's video. Mm. Amazing. <Laugh>. Mm. Thank you for that dinner. It was delicious. That's fun. It was wonderful. Thank you everybody. I'm sorry you couldn't be here for that dinner, but if you <laugh> if you ever come to town, just lemme know. That's not a club benefit. Yeah. <laugh> we do TWiG every Wednesday about 2:00 PM Pacific, 5:00 PM Eastern, 2100 you tc. You could join us here and watch it live if you want it Live Twit tv. If you're watching Live Chat Live, there's an IRC open to all IRC TWIT tv. Just go there in your browser IRC TWI tv. But you can also use our Club Twit Discord if you're a club member after the fact, OnDemand versions of the show at the website, TWI tv slash TWiG, you go there. You'll also see a link to a YouTube channel dedicated to TWiG. You'll also see links to your favorite podcast players. You can subscribe there or just search for This Week in Google, in your podcast, or r s Ss Feed Reader and subscribe. 'cause That way you'll get it automatically the minute it's done. Well, give us a minute or two to take the profanities out. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time on this week. Google. Bye-bye.

(03:06:02):
Bye bye.

Rod Pyle (03:06:05):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor in Chief of Ad Astra magazine. And each week I joined with my co-host to bring you this week in space, the latest and greatest news from the Final Frontier. We talk to NASA chiefs, space scientists, engineers, educators and artists. And sometimes we just shoot the breeze over what's hot and what's not in space, books and tv. And we do it all for you, our fellow true believers. So whether you're an armchair adventurer or waiting for your turn to grab a slot in Elon's Mars Rocket, join us on this weekend space and be part of the greatest adventure of all time.