This Week in Google 739, Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
00:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's time for twig this week in Google. Jeff Jarvis is here and Pruitt's here. We're happy to announce our brand new team member, Paris smart. No, she's here. The DMV has suspended cruise operation in San Francisco. We'll talk about why Google has a good quarter but the stock market's not happy. We have some thoughts about that and how to get out of a corn maze. It's all coming up next on twig Podcasts you love from people you trust.
00:33 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
This is twig.
00:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is twig this week in Google, episode 739, recorded Wednesday, october 25th 2023. Panic in the cul-de-sac. This episode of this week in Google is brought to you by Discourse, the online home for your community. Discourse makes it easy to have meaningful conversations and collaborate anytime, anywhere. Visit Discourseorg. Slash twig to get one month free on all self-serve plans. It's time for twig this week in Google to show that's about everything but Google, but we promise everything we talk about today you can Google. If you wish, you can search for it on Google. That counts. Yes, that's at Pruitt of the famous Pruitt clan. That's right At Pruittcom. He is also the club manager, the community manager in Club Twit, and good pal and produces a bunch of shows and like TV and all that good stuff. He's a great photographer.
01:42
He's our Adobe guy With him. Next to him, jeff Jarvis, who is, of course, the official Leonard Tao professor for journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York, but he is Diorbine in his career.
02:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm Diorbine, who, by the way, told me the other day when I saw him that he is a fan of our newest cast member and that is the big announcement that's important.
02:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We've been waiting because we had to get confirmation from her management. She writes for the information and the information has given her a green light. Ladies and gentlemen, our newest official full-time cast member, paris Martino. Yay Craig, newmark's favorite host.
02:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, thanks, craig.
02:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What does?
02:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Craig, think about your song.
02:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He insists on it.
02:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We got to do this again. He once appeared on the show in the circle above Leo. Yeah, he did. We had the show.
02:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So that's very smart, I do think. Every once in a while you just need to have somebody there to kind of keep you in check.
02:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, he does.
02:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's what our crew does Pretty much everybody's here to keep me in check. That's the whole point of this show, and when we had to replace Stacy, we didn't want to. She got a great job at Consumer's Reports. She's working policy for them. We needed to find somebody who was equally feisty, and I think we found her. She is. Yeah, she's gonna keep me in place.
03:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But, lady, you didn't come on time today and it was noted in your permanent record.
03:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Listen, you know it is. I blame Steve Jobs and the entire Mac book ecosystem. Frankly, I had to reset my computer, so you know this might be actually a good thing for a podcast called this Week in Google.
03:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Very nice, very nice. Hey, here's a big story.
03:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I just want to say well, I'm so as the guy who won't leave, who never leaves the party. I just want to say how happy I am that Paris is here.
03:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's just. Jeff has been with the show since we started in 2009, 14.
03:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He's trying to get rid of bees. Tried everything. It has a work. Yeah Well, we thought you'd be dead by now.
04:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that had no idea. We we, jeff and I are brothers from a different mother and we we act like brothers. Right, there's little sibling sibling rivalry going on here. No, I love this panel and I think we really we. I'm so thrilled we got Paris joining us, so thank you, paris, for putting up with us.
04:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Thanks for having me guys Now. Hope you don't get sick of me too soon.
04:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Nope, never going to happen. Pretty much people get sick of us. It's usually the other way around yeah. All right.
04:41 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Leo Sorry.
04:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
California DMV has completely suspended Cruises Robo Taxi Permit. They are off the road in San Francisco. That is huge. You couldn't go anywhere in San Francisco without seeing Google's Waymo vehicles and GM's cruise vehicles everywhere. Was Waymo still on the road and cruise yes, but here's what happened. You may may not have heard this back in New Jersey. Do you have news back there? But we what?
05:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
happened. We have people who actually drive their cars here. Yeah, we do. It's a few lazy little suckers.
05:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think there's just someone on the corner who kind of shouts the day's headlines in the cobo.
05:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Today in San Francisco, the this is from TechCrunch. The DMV's order of suspension, which TechCrunch has viewed, states the cruise withheld video footage from an ongoing investigation. Oh boy, so so a few weeks ago it's I mean, it's a sad story A standard vehicle, vehicle driven I think it might have been a truck by a human struck a pedestrian kind of, in the middle of the night. Later the woman flew into the air and got in a cruise robo taxi, drove over her and then dragged her and killed her. So it was a, it was a mess. Oh no, it was a terrible thing. Now, these things, by the way, I should point out, people get hit fairly frequently. Pedestrians get hit in San Francisco. It's not an unusual thing. Sometimes they get killed, yeah, but the issue was that the DMV said we want to see you, we know you. There was no video of the initial strike but there, but there was subsequent video from the robo taxi.
06:28
During the meeting this is from the department of motor vehicles in California the department was shown video footage of the accident captured by the AVs on board cameras. The video footage presented to the department ended with the AVs initial stop following a hard braking maneuver. Footage of the subsequent movement of the AV to perform a pullover maneuver was not shown to the department. Crews did not disclose that any additional movement of the vehicle had occurred after the initial stop. The department only learned of the AV subsequent movement which incidentally killed the pedestrian. The department only learned of the incident of the pedestrian via discussion with another government agency. In other words, crews hid the fact. The other government agency was National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, nhtsa, which has also opened its own investigation. It happened October 2nd, early in the month.
07:21 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Crews is GM yeah, yeah, the.
07:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
AV traveled up on today. Nonetheless, the portion of the video that the DMV says it did not view initially showed the crews robotaxi, after coming to a complete stop, attempting a pullover maneuver with the pedestrian trapped underneath the vehicle. It traveled 20 feet as it was going as fast as seven miles an hour before coming to a complete and final stop, and that is sad to say that's what killed her.
07:48
So because they didn't cooperate, they lied, basically tried to hide it. The DMV says you can no longer operate. I'm not sure how long the suspension will continue. They can continue to test with a safety driver. It's just no longer will they be allowed to drive without a safety driver, the fleet could become. Yeah, well they had gotten. This is a month after the California Public Utilities Commission gave them full permission to operate without safety drivers at all times of the day or night, everywhere in the city.
08:21 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I didn't think it did at all. Well, this this is a month. It's me be Tesla's supposed. Automatic driving is allowed on the road. If anything should be regulated in technology, it's that piece of crap. Yeah.
08:35 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
But, mr Jarvis, some will argue that you know there's plenty of humans behind the wheels killing more people than these autonomous vehicles. Is that fair?
08:45 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm perfectly fair. I, yes, but I'm the one on the show who often says be careful of regulation, yeah, yeah. In this case I'm saying if you're going to again, if you're going to regulate anything, a 3,000 pound supercharged vehicle on the road that hasn't fully been tested, that hasn't been taken through a regulatory structure for approval, is allowed to drive on its own. At least crews and Waymo are regulated and are tested and can do this. Sure it, just it just. Musk just has this thing just out there and is in the and that musky and way, and that's what gets me.
09:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's the further argument that, despite these accidents, and horrific as they may be, these autonomous vehicles are, for the most part, much safer than as you point out human, but they're truly autonomous vehicles, as opposed to Musk's kind of Well. Ok, that's the point. I would say even Musk's vehicles are safer than and have fewer accidents than then the teenager that's just 18 years old.
09:50 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Just this past Saturday they went up highway 101 and a hundred miles an hour and hit another car and is facing about eight felony charges. Yeah, something like that.
10:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that was just the other day, all the time. So I mean I'm looking good.
10:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think the thing in question here, though, is whether or not, like, the difference between, obviously, a single human driver and a company that is looking to put a bunch of these vehicles on the road is that you have kind of a one area where you can create kind of a stop gap where you can slow down potential crashes or issues for a large number of vehicles at once. I think this is probably more of a question of how do you want to set up the future of this technology and its adoption. I agree with Jeff in this case, it is a little odd that, given the scrutiny that his contemporaries have faced, that Tesla's auto driving features aren't being regulated in this way. I mean, it feels like, even with this cruise incident, obviously the only reason why they're being completely shut down is because they seem to have lied to investigators.
10:59
They failed to report. Yeah, a no go, you know.
11:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think we'd be better off even with Tesla's autonomous driving than we are with human driving, but still need to regulate them. But to me, jeff, I'm surprised you're not harrowing moral panic, because this is a really good example of how technology is held to a higher standard than humans are.
11:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But that's. My point, though, is that Waymo and Cruz were held to a higher standard. Musk has not been. There is no. What's the approval process for Musk's technology?
11:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, Well, there's two regulating bodies. There's the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. They regulate after the fact. And then there's the people who give Tesla the permission in the first place. But did he ever get?
11:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
permission to run? Yes, by whom, when, under what?
12:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, in fact this was a battle. I'm trying to remember the name of the other federal body that does this. They're the ones that set the regulations.
12:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Hold on, I'm just Part of the problem, too, is the lie of it being autonomous, because it is not Right. Well, but that's just marketing. Yeah Well, it's false advertising, it's fraud.
12:19 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
They do something at one time and then they change it to something else.
12:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, so there's a I can't remember the name of the company. There's NHTSA, which implements laws from Congress and regulations, and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, and then I see this from 20. Is it OSHA? I can't remember where the other one is.
12:45 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Tesla. Let me see what this is. This is Reuters from 2020, October, so a year ago. Tesla cars will not be approved as fully self-driving, Musk says.
12:57 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Okay.
13:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But then he goes out there and says it's fully self-driving. He sells it autopilot. That's what ObsetsBe. I'm trying to find where the but one agency. I can't find that either, leo is it the Department of Transportation?
13:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It might be the. Eric Duckman says it might be Dodd. Do you know what he? So the DoT gave permission for him to operate. Actually, each state has to give permission, I think, for autonomous vehicles to operate, but DoT, I think the problem and I do remember this, you know we're gonna have to get Samuble's Samut on, because I do remember there was some conflict between Is it DoT? Whoever it is DoT that sets the regulations and whoever investigates the regulations? Or maybe it's the NTSB? That's what it is. It is the NTSB, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a and it was the NHTSA.
13:51
It was NHTSA versus NTSB. Nhtsa sets the regulations, gave permission to Tesla, the NTSB investigates the crashes and the NTSB has said several times, just as Consumer Reports has said and others, that there should be strong NHTSA should have stronger regulations on when self-driving can be used, for instance, on most vehicles. My Ford, for instance, with BlueCruise and GM has its own kind of self-driving. It's only on highways that have been mapped and it's not on surface streets. But Tesla allows you to use their self-driving on surface streets, parking lots, and the NTSB has said to NHTSA you should not allow that, but NHTSA continues to allow that. So I think there's actually a little battle between the NTSB.
14:41 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, as of August 24, Story and Reuters again is saying trying to resolve a two-year investigation into Tesla autopilot and could make a public announcement soon. Ntsb, nhtsa, oh, okay.
14:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And what are they looking to resolve in this case? Whether or not this should be allowed to proceed generally?
15:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah, they're concerned about. They're concerned about. Nhtsa raises more concerns about Tesla's autopilot safety.
15:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, Definitely start by changing autopilot.
15:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But let me ask this question.
15:20
So I don't want to go after any particular company, whether it's GM or Tesla, but are these autonomous vehicles? Here's the problem In order to get better, they need to do it in the real world. Sure, so far in the lab. They need to get out there. That's what Cruz and Waymo, with Google, have been doing is going out in approved communities First it was Phoenix, and then later San Francisco, san Diego and actually do some driving. At first they could only do it during the daytime with a safety driver, but it needs to get this data so it gets better and better. Elon has just said well, yeah, we're just going to do it and we'll get the data and we'll get better and better. I think you could still make an argument that all of these systems are safer than human drivers, that the vast majority. It'd have to come down to per passenger mile, I guess, but I would bet.
16:14
I don't know how to look that per passenger mile. Human-conducted vehicles are still more dangerous than autonomous vehicles.
16:24 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But answer me this Well, first, but if you're promising something, if you're saying the car can drive on its own, and it really can't, that's an issue. Second, both Cruz, both GM and Google have a whole raft of sensors that Musk says, yeah, we don't need those, and that's what concerns me.
16:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I agree, he thinks that he could just do anything.
16:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes, I think there's also maybe an easier question to answer here, which is that part of this should go back to. We haven't figured out the liability issues clearly, like in these cases where, say, like what Jeff's talking about, you start using a Tesla's full self-driving features, thinking, taking it at its word, it ends up hitting someone. God forbid killing someone. Who is liable in that case? Is it you, because you were behind the wheel? Is it you? And Tesla? Is it more Tesla than you? I think that we need to probably figure out a regulatory framework that can be applied in cases of liability in order to kind of have the second or third steps in these situations figured out.
17:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So here's some stats. I've got some stats.
17:39 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I do too.
17:40 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Go ahead.
17:42 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let's see who's Are humans better drivers than you thought.
17:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
According to, I guess Nitsa, autonomous vehicles are involved in more crashes 9.1 crashes per million miles traveled, compared to 4.1 for conventional vehicles. But injuries in traditional vehicle collisions are usually worse than they are in autonomous vehicles. A lot of autonomous vehicle crashes are low speed.
18:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, here's the fatality.
18:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm also interested, though does that those fatality and injury rates for human-driven vehicles? Does that include commercial vehicles like tractor, trailers or things like that, because those aren't frequently driven by in an autonomous way, but those can bump up your injury and fatality rates.
18:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Right? Well, here's what I have from the American prospect. The overall fatal accident rate for auto travel, according to Nitsa, was 1.35 deaths per 100 million miles traveled in 2022. In other words, Tesla's FSD system is likely on the order of 10 times more dangerous at driving than humans.
18:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Where is that from American prospect In fatalities.
19:02 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Search safety of Tesla autopilot. That'll come up.
19:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, that's interesting From Cade Metz, writing for ours Technica. He looked at every crash report Waymont crews filed in California, as this year the two companies Waymont crews reported 102 crashes involving driverless vehicles. That's over 6 million miles of traveling, which is one crash for every 60,000 miles. That's about five years of driving for typical human motorists. They were tended to be low speed crashes. Humans drive close to 100 million miles between fatal crashes. So okay, it sounds like humans are safer, which kind of surprises me.
19:50 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's implied a fatal accident rate of 11.3 deaths per 100 million miles, versus 1.35 for human. Yeah, now, presumably, autonomous vehicles are getting better, right, yeah, and you're right about the training, you're right about all that, but I think that Google and, until lately, gm, that was a bad management problem, not a technology problem in what they did. They've been doing it, I think, in a careful and measured way, and I'm fine with that. It's what I.
20:21 - Leo Laporte (Host)
My argument is that, as with so much, musk just gets away with doing whatever the hell he wants there's another thing to point out, which is that, almost invariably, when a Tesla or other autonomous vehicles crash, they crash with a car driven by humans, and so it's a little muddy in the waters because Could, the human had intervened sooner.
20:42 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Could the human?
20:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
have made a. Yeah, maybe the human that they crashed into caused the accident. I think often it's the case with AVs that they do fine in known conditions, but as soon as there's an erratic situation like a pedestrian- wandering in the state.
20:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I would say the same is true of humans. Humans typically probably do well in known conditions.
21:01 - Speaker 2 (Host)
But if you have an erratic individual thrown in the mix, you're going to probably have some issues.
21:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, I think the jury's a little bit still out, but I have been disabused to the notion that autonomous vehicles are better drivers than humans are, which you know I had thought I had a second.
21:22 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm quoting about Tesla particularly. I don't know about the cruise and limo.
21:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, Well, it seems like it's also true of cruise and limo. And cruise, as of now, is no longer operating in San Francisco or anywhere in California, which is kind of a surprise. They just got permission from the California PUC to go. Go, have at it, have fun.
21:42 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
And then take current article.
21:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They did specify how long. I mean it is such a short go ahead. Oh, I was saying it's such a short-sighted move by cruise to and whoever in management of the decision to try and bury this information. That was dumb.
21:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think like we were talking at the top you know, accidents happen, you have to be transparent about them.
22:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, there's no other way around that.
22:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
All right. So the intention was to in 2022,. The company operated 100 Robo taxis in San Francisco, and now it's their intentions to increase the size of the fleet to 5,000. Yeah, well, not now.
22:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it was already jammed. I mean they were, they're. They're, these cruise and limo vehicles are everywhere in the city. You see every three. You're driving on them or rid. No, by the way, I will put, I will not put my money where my mouth is, I will. I would much prefer to be in a human driven vehicle, as scary as that can be. The scariest ride I've ever taken was the ride from Rome to the airport in April. It was terrifying. He was going a hundred miles an hour, yeah.
22:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
But wouldn't, wouldn't what a robot vehicle have gotten you there that fast, Leo.
22:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, that's true. We weren't late, though I mean we have you, don't say I do think they should try and test.
23:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, as someone who cycles, this is probably not something I actually want, but I think the final frontier for autonomous vehicles is if they can drive in New York city, sure.
23:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And notice no one's trying. Yeah, I mean I think there's probably a good reason oh no, I would think now this is again going to be just my thinking as opposed to actual fact that cyclists are safer with autonomous vehicles. They're more likely less likely get hit than an inattentive human right. That's what always scares me when I'm bicycling is somebody reaching down? Is it because of the eight track machine? And they go.
23:38 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh is it because of the reflectors or what?
23:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Because there's, there's, I think they can see bikes but I can think they can see bikes and, unlike human drivers, they're always looking. But human drivers, yeah. I think that that is the difference. That's a good point.
23:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think in New York, from what I've seen, anecdotally, most cycling related deaths and accidents here happen because someone's making a left or right turn, isn't looking, they're not looking and just you know, hits a cyclist and unfortunately in New York drivers think you can get away with that and you most often can, so they're never caught. But at least with an autonomous vehicle it has to be looking as its whole job.
24:14 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So in my county scared me straight with the cyclist is just turning off of the expressway, just making a right turn and you don't see them there. Yeah.
24:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It scared the crap out of me a couple of times. Have you ever been doored Paris?
24:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, but I'm always very afraid of it. Especially because the bike lanes are right next to the doors the cars that are parked. It's not what you want.
24:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I always look to see if there's anybody in the car, and if there is, I kind of try to give them a wide berth, because you never know Good news. Here's a surprise Google's in the advertising business.
24:48 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh, they are what.
24:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Third quarter of 2023 results are out. From Google, 71% of the revenue comes from advertising.
24:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Down from 98. So they've considerably oh, that's a good way to slant that yeah, considerably. What am I looking for? What's the word I'm looking for?
25:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Reduce Diversified. Diversify. What, what is?
25:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
making up for that difference. That's a good question. A lot of cloud Cloud strength. According to Ruth Porat, fundamental strength of our business was parent again in Q3. 77 billion in revenue. That's up 11% year over year, driven by meaningful growth in search and YouTube and momentum in cloud.
25:35 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The stock went down 9.5%. And why? Why? Because the cloud revenue was disappointing. Yeah.
25:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Cloud was not good for Google. Microsoft's earnings came out as well this week and they had much better cloud results. It's really come down to AWS and Azure. We were talking about that on Windows Weekly and Google Cloud is really a laggard. Although traffic was up, it wasn't like it was down. It went from $6.8 billion revenue in 2022 to $8.4 billion revenue in 2023. So that's a small number compared to AWS.
26:16 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I also think there's a lot of hype around Microsoft and chat GPT, until they get sued a million times. They're catching up, which is ridiculous because Google has done so much more about AI, but the hype around generative AI just got away from them.
26:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Cloud lost nearly half a billion dollars. Last year it made a tiny profit $266 million. This year. It's not a significant profit. Google services went from $18 billion to $23 billion.
26:50 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Other bets. That includes me paying for the damn service that.
26:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I just stopped at. Yeah, I was about to say it's all Jeff.
26:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Other bets lost money, but not quite as much as the year before. Carpet costs unallocated doubled for some reason. Total income from all operations this year $21 billion. That's $7 billion a month. That's a nice little payday for Google Nice.
27:19 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They just laid off a lot of people in their news division Did they? Did Richard Gingrich lose his job? No, he's not because he's at policy level, but some developing people I know are gone.
27:32 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Talk about every other editor that's worked at the Verge and then went to Google. Are they all right? Wow, I don't know.
27:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The same thing happened to us, but for Apple. Many of our hosts ended up working for Apple News. That's true. I don't know if they're all still there. Let's see Forward looking statements blah, blah, blah. Gap, non-gap, R&D increased. I guess I don't really. We're not here to give you stock advice. The only reason we talk about earnings reports on our shows is what do we learn about the company from that? What we've learned about Google is yes, they're still very heavily dependent on advertising, but less so than before. That's interesting.
28:19 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Does this take that target off of Google's back with the decrease in sales in advertising?
28:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, too big to be.
28:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think every tech company wishes that a quarterly or yearly drop in revenue would be enough to get the target off their back. But nope.
28:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Profit doesn't work like that. Profit was up 42%.
28:45 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Even so pretty Nasty Wall Street.
28:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Pretty good, exceeding expectations. Wall Street's expectations yeah, it's interesting that the price went down. Users were disappointed by the relatively weak performance of the Google Cloud platform, which is at risk of falling further behind, according to Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services.
29:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, behind those two, according to Jesse Cohen and AnalystIninvestingcom yeah, 6% drop Tuesday night on Alphabet's share price yeah, it seems to me I guess, because cloud sales rose only like 21% from the same period a year ago, which is a slower growth rate than it had seen previously. It's the same sort of story I think tech companies all over are seeing, which is, of course, after this huge boom period. You're, you know, year ago comparisons. You're never going to be able to match that again.
29:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But I mean, I would be thrilled if my business was 21% better than last year.
29:44 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That's what I don't get with these analysts. How do they know this and say you know what, 21 billion out that ain't enough profit, I'm sorry.
29:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I guess, isn't it that the multiplier for tech businesses is is the benchmark is so much higher than it is for normal businesses. I mean, most businesses don't grow 21% a year.
30:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's because we're just coming off of this period where everything was up into the right for like a decade, you know, and it got only exponentially more so during the pandemic. All these companies were seeing crazy gains and it seemed, you know, to their shareholders and executives that it was only up from here. But of course that's not realistic. And now that you're seeing the entire kind of economy course correct, companies like Google Cloud in particular because Google Cloud I guess it's worth pointing out these sort of business, its customers are other businesses that are also being impacted by these same market forces, so of course they're going to have less money to spend on cloud services and other things. When they're trying to figure out how many employees we have to lay off this quarter, shruggle down.
30:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I also think that the and I'm reading the tea leaves here but the market is a little disappointed with Google's AI strategy. So Narpatchai was asked at the conference call yesterday about their investments in AI for search by an analyst, and it feels like you know. Senator's answer was well, I'll read it to you. You decide. I've been pretty pleased with how the user feedback has been on SGE. That's their search, ai for search. We're rolling it out to more users Over time. There'll be newer paths, just like we've done over on YouTube, I think with the AI work. There are subscription models as a possible path as well. He's so equivocal, I feel like the Wall Street said they have no plan, they have no strategy. What's their strategy?
31:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
for AI Going up against the wall. Microsoft's eating them alive. Well, but they? That's what screwed up. They have a huge strategy for AI. It's in everything they do it's in translate, it's in search, it's in autocomplete, it's in maps, it's everywhere in Google. They have been true to that. But generative AI, ai that can write and tell, lies op. They're behind.
32:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
According to Business Insider.
32:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it's also that. Sorry to interrupt. I think it's also that Google's like they don't break out the costs for open AI or like deep mind, but it's AI team deep mind, the kind of bucket that they put those costs in. It's called unallocated corporate costs. Those expenses jumped 40% to 1.6 billion this quarter Training is expensive. Operating these LLMs is really expensive. I think you have to be a good salesman or showman to convince investors that that is worth waiting to see the results of, if you're posting those sort of large increases.
32:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's the one thing Senator Pichai is not.
32:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, he is a neutral man.
32:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He does not. He does not turn on the show biz charm by any means. Oh, we got trouble right here in River City. That starts with a G and it begins with P and that stands for Google. Huh, I think you should take up tap dancing.
33:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That could be helpful.
33:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Business Insider says Wall Street is nervous about any big changes to Google search because search ads are so lucrative and it's the bulk of Google's income. Turning the traditional search experience into a chat GPT style user interface could disrupt how ads appear and perform, so Google is treading carefully.
33:39 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But Google says that they're adding ads to AI. That's one story that's out there today, number one, number two they're also looking to as since it's so well with workspace charge subscription rates for AI, so they're trying to. I wonder what the proportion is of search ads versus network wide advertising versus the ad marketplaces? I don't think they break out. They probably don't break that out.
34:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't.
34:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, Because I think that the search ad proportion, I know, has been going down and search ads have been somewhat less lucrative, but that's because they've taken over advertising all over and that's where the anti-trust to your point earlier and that's where the anti-trust pressure is on.
34:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, anyway, to my untutored eye and this is why I don't play the market it was a good quarter for Google. I don't know, yeah, yeah, but 10% I can understand maybe a little nervousness around Google's future Because they, I honestly don't know what their AI strategy is, and apparently neither does Sundar Pachai. Let's take a little break. More to come with this week in Google, our show this week, brought to you by Wix oh, web agencies, you're gonna love this one. Let me tell you about Wix Studio, the platform that gives agencies total freedom, creative freedom to deliver complex client sites while still smashing deadlines. How Well.
35:12
First, let's talk about the advanced design capabilities. With Wix Studio, you can build unique layouts with a revolutionary grid experience and watch as elements scale proportionally by default. No code animation. Add sparks of delight, while custom CSS gives total design control. And it doesn't stop there. You can bring ambitious client projects to life in any industry with a fully integrated suite of business solutions, from e-com to events, bookings and more, and extend the capabilities even further with hundreds of APIs and integrations. And you know what the workflows just make sense. They're the built-in AI tools, the centralized workspace, the on canvas collaborating, the reuse of assets across sites, the seamless client handover. And that's not all. Find out more at wixcom slash studio. Wixcom slash studio. We thank them so much for their support of this week in Google. Hey good news Tinder now lets friends and family pick your next date. What's?
36:18 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Tinder. Oh, you're very good, delicatious.
36:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I see a thing you used to kind of certify when you're out in the wilderness.
36:29 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes, Tinder Really useful.
36:31 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Dad, I do know he's such a boy scum. You're right, Paris.
36:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's true, I don't know you that well, paris, I don't even know if you're single. Do you use any? Do you use dating apps? Have you ever?
36:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
used dating apps.
36:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I know you're young.
36:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I am a recently single person after five years of being off the market, and dating apps terrify me. So I don't know, maybe this is my future. I guess I gotta find friends to recommend me to folks. This is hard. It seems awful.
37:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is hard. I remember, you know, when you've not been single for a long time and suddenly you're out in the dating pool and these apps are intimidating. There's lots of them, so maybe you should let your mom pick your next stage. Oh, matchmaker allows Tinder users to invite up to 15 loved ones 15 to play Cupid and recommend potential partners directly within the app. Wonder why they thought this was my?
37:30 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
idea. Would you do this in off of the map?
37:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, and now I thank God. I have never been single in the apps.
37:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I've never been single, I've never that's so tight.
37:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I've pretty much never been single, actually, but as a dedicated serial monogamist. But it was always my experience that setups were the best way to meet somebody. A friend says hey, I know that's how I met all my wives. Do you have binders full of them?
38:02 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That sounded really wrong, but it's true you don't see that it's true.
38:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, you're returning the same color as your shirt.
38:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's not what happened.
38:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So the setup which?
38:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
is that a friend? I bet you'd agree with me. The best way to meet somebody is to have a friend say oh, you two are a match Offices are also very important, so I'm not going to be single. Our match offices are also very good places to be Offices, but no one says hey, ma, can you send me out with someone? So Not in the US, but in many other cultures, Ma insists All right, OK, yes right.
38:43
In fact, I have friends even today whose parents and family were very upset that they didn't allow an arranged marriage, that you're going to choose your husband or wife. They're Indian. Nuts, yeah, indian, so I don't. And of course, matchmakers, matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match. You know that.
39:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Really showing off all your stuff.
39:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Mr Broadway, what do you need to know? Your aunt hates musicals.
39:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm so sorry for you.
39:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I know, what happened to?
39:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
your heart. Another musical fan.
39:21 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No musicals.
39:23 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
He was a theater kid.
39:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's the question what happened to your heart and prove it. Yes.
39:29 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Gosh.
39:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Sad.
39:32 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You know what Paris Ripped out by musicals.
39:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
His wife.
39:36 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes.
39:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's a devastating look into your marriage, yeah.
39:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's quite, tinder would never have matched you two.
39:46 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, but I do agree with the whole someone coming in and interviewing and say, hey, you should meet so-and-so, because that's how she and I met. Too Heck, it was even a blind date. Yeah.
39:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It sort of is blind because it's set up and they say, look, I'm going to set up this YouTube because that is, I think, a very common way, so that's kind of what happens.
40:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, we also had personals back in the day. The New York Review of Posts, All right.
40:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Personals not a good idea these days there is kind of a whole app in the queer dating community that is personals based. It's called Lex. Essentially, what it is is text-based posts for dating. I have a lot of friends who seem to really like it.
40:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Interesting. I have never heard of this LexLGBT and their slogan is if it's queer, it's here, it's just nice, that's right, it's just nice, it's on the nose. So this is more than just dating.
40:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
This is I mean, I feel like a lot of dating apps nowadays are trying to expand beyond dating, but it originally kind of started as queer personals much like you would have in your local newspaper.
40:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Right. I personally seem so dangerous to me I can't imagine. Oh, it's got to be yeah, like oh, yeah, sure, times have changed.
41:02 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I want to meet somebody.
41:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm going to put an ad in the paper and meet you somewhere. Yeah, times have changed.
41:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So years ago I knew a woman who ran a blog called Tokyo Shoes and she lived in Tokyo and her boyfriend was there and she was there for like eight years and then they broke up and she wrote a wonderful blog. She didn't do it anymore but she came back and I was writing about blogs and I met her and the thing that struck her most coming back from Japan to the US is my god, now everyone dates online. And when she left it was like no, no way talks about that, no way does that. I went back Everybody was just met her, in fact, about it and said yeah, yeah, so I find people's online it is so common now, but it's the way it is.
41:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I think most of my friends probably have met their partners online.
41:45 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I don't know if I could do that With an app online.
41:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't know if I can do that either, and that's the terrifying thing, yeah.
41:52 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I don't know if I can, but you got to. But there's, this.
41:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Instagram account I really love called OldNYMag. Wanted posts, I guess, clips from Old New York magazines, but the thing I like about it the most is it posts old personal ads from New York Mag and it's fantastic.
42:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They were great, and the Village Voice and the New York Review of Books is where you were classy and horny.
42:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just found that on the hands ad. Free spirit, handsome, athletic New Yorker, 49, seeking tall, willow-y beauty, 27 to 39. For adventures, love and more. Phone and photo a must. Nailed it. Ha ha, ha, ha ha, If you like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain. This is a good. I'm following this Instagram. This is a good. It's great, Highly recommend it.
42:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
There are some funny ones in there.
42:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here's one Gay woman, late 50s, bored uninspired, in need of a miracle. Ha, ha, ha ha.
42:53 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That comes wrapped in style in grace. It didn't fit it.
42:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Ha, ha ha ha, 32, extremely beautiful Christian lady who is refined, educated, affectionate and secure, seeks the right gentleman. Her greatest goal to be happily married. I wonder if she did, don't you wonder now? Yeah, oh boy, she should be hooked up with the gay woman who's in the late 50s and bored and uninspired. I think they can settle they can settle.
43:20
Yeah, come here, handsome. I'm quite a treat. Let's try out our dancing feet, or smash the ball across the court. I hit hard. I'm an athletic sort. I'm in the world of high finance. I'm a woman who loves romance. I read, I travel, I love to learn. For that special man I now do yearn Come out of hiding, knock on my door. I'm waiting for you at age 24. What no?
43:49 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
No way.
43:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
OK, and this 24-year-old had enough money to shell out for that long of a person.
43:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's so long. Yeah the word. Yeah, this was from December 16, 1985.
44:00 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That 24 is a lie. Yeah, at 44, my lie. That 24 is a lie. Ok, I don't know how we got to that. So, leo, if you go, down to line 79.
44:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Please, it's, send me to line 79. You're changing 70.
44:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Please, I beg of you. Online dating is a personal nightmare, but according to the Washington Post opinion piece, it's good for society.
44:24 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
This is you, you, joe, it's the versatility of couples.
44:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh which is interesting.
44:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Ok, diversity.
44:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I've got a quiz here.
44:31 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Imagine that's a quiz. You're supposed to take the quiz, oh should.
44:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I do this OK. Yeah, sure. Imagine you are an average American and Paris will ask for your answers on this one. On the dating market today, what do you think is your chance of ending a relationship with someone from a different race or ethnicity?
44:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
The average American 50% are the average American. I don't know.
44:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, imagine you're the average yeah 33% Pretty low. I think that's even high, but I'll put 33, because you're the expert Submit. All right, there's one. Your answer is higher.
45:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
The 22% of newlywed Americans married a person of a different person, that it was a double number that counts Two digits.
45:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Two digits. This isn't poker. What is the chance of ending a relationship with someone of a different race or ethnicity as an average American online? Oh, I think it's.
45:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it's got to be higher. It's got to be 50. So maybe this is 33 or 50. Yeah.
45:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah, you're correct. The chance of entering an interracial relationship is higher online. One study put the probability at about 30%.
45:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, she was closer in the first Closer.
45:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that makes sense, because you're going to go places where people like you go the bars, the restaurants, the clubs, and it's not that somebody you know already introduces you as your method.
45:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Leo, then you're stuck in your filter bubble for real life, so online dating breaks filter bubbles. It gets you out of your filter bubble. Yeah, it does. That's what it does.
45:59 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Or if it's good for society.
46:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
If it's fiddle on the roof, you're a gefilte bubble.
46:05 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Gefilte. Stop with the musicals.
46:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That just makes no sense, but it was funny OK.
46:14 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
OK, that's a good argument. That's our highest standard here. That doesn't make sense.
46:20 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Manage to clown. It was a blind date.
46:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Interestingly, though and I've thought this, Lisa and I both thought this that the future really is of mixed marriages, right Interracial marriages, and we're just all going to be a melting pot.
46:35 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Add agency is definitely going to think that, yeah, I know all the marriages are mixed on the ads.
46:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We're all just going to be a light caramel color at some point. I'm fine with that.
46:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, I don't think that's good.
46:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So there's a steady rise of intermarriage. In the United States 22% of newlyweds in 2021, 14% of all married couples, and I think if it's your first marriage is higher.
46:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Honestly, that's lower than I thought yeah.
47:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, this is a data provided to yo-yo by Coffee Meets Bagel, a dating app for people.
47:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, that's a New York City dating app. Fascinating as one would probably expect.
47:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Coffee Meets Bagel or a CMB. Wow, that's really God, that's really interesting.
47:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Why are there so many of these?
47:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's a lot of these aren't there.
47:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I had never heard of this before Are you let's see what else, so the percentage of Americans who express approval for marriage between black and white people in 2021,. What do you guess that percentage is?
47:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, they give three very high percentages, all in the majority 94, 84, 76%.
47:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I feel like it's got to be like 90 something. Oh no.
47:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think it's the lowest I could pick. Nope, oh, it's higher than what I thought. 94%. You're right, hey, hey, you know your people. Most Americans accept interracial marriage. You know it wasn't so long ago that the Supreme Court decided in the love case that it was even legal.
48:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes, it was even legal 60? 60. Yeah. Like 60. The loving what was it yeah?
48:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Loving, loving v Virginia, loving v, that's it.
48:21 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That's it. Wow, that's amazing. I think it was like 19.
48:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We've come a long, long way 2% of couples 67. First met their partners online. Can you guess how many couples first met each other online in 2017? 40? I'd say like 30. Right now you are the first guess 40. 40. Almost half 40%, that's crazy. Almost half, that's 2017. So since then, it's got to be a lot higher, right, right? So, paris, listen, I got to download them.
48:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that we should just go back to. I think speed dating sounds really fun. I think we should bring that back. I think it's still around.
48:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's where you go to a coffee shop.
49:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I won't know what to order.
49:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And there's 20 people 20 women, 20 men and you sit across from somebody and you got what a minute and you drink and you talk and you ask questions.
49:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean you could figure it out in like 45 seconds.
49:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You do know, don't you? You should trust your gut. Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating.
49:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So, leo, I'm going to reveal something new here for your list. Ok, do you know that I was once named one of San Francisco's 100 Most Eligible Bachelors by San Francisco?
49:26 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh my.
49:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Hold on. How is that?
49:28 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
not on you. Are you single? Ok, how is that not on you? You serious, yep, that should have been like one of the top things on there.
49:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We've got to update the card, john, we've got to update the card. What is the card? Oh, this is all the stuff. Oh, this is Jeff's intro card. All the things that he is, plus the emeritus.
49:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's great.
49:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Number six. Wait a minute. Number six on the card. Murphy Brown called him a bottomless pit of hate. Oh no, it is on the card, it's on you. Formerly oh I'm sorry, I bragged about that Formerly one of San Francisco's 100 Most Eligible Bachelors.
50:06 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I went to the party and I met a woman I dated briefly named Janice McKenzie. He was very nice.
50:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And she worked for San Francisco Chronicle. What? Why did you bring her up?
50:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Why is she a part of this? She's PR person.
50:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh she was a PR person, he's a PR person about his bachelor, Jeff. He's a Republican.
50:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
A Republican PR person who knew him too. One of the most wow.
50:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
OK, wait, do we have this article somewhere?
50:35 - Speaker 2 (Host)
Does it have like a fun photo of you? Does it have like a?
50:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
list of the things you like to do. Don't we wish Talk about moral panics?
50:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, let me just search, Because you know everything's on Google these days.
50:47 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean I've tried Jeff Jarvis and eligible bachelor. Nothing's coming up. Also there's been an article that says America's Most Eligible Bachelor is a 72-year-old grandpa, which I don't think is about you.
50:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think that's the golden. What is that? They call that the golden bachelor, right? Oh, wait a minute. It looks like there aren't many great matches for you.
51:07 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
it says right here Wow, we do have this picture. Now, if I showed you this picture.
51:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Karis, would you say. Would you say this is the nerdiest classic I have ever seen.
51:23 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Haunting eyes, that is one of the most sought after.
51:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Tell Paris how you got that. I bought it on eBay.
51:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Someone was selling that on eBay yeah.
51:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.
51:40 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What does it say at the?
51:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
bottom Says Jeff Jarvis, founding managing editor of Entertainment Weekly. And for some reason your name is circled in pen. I think that means you're next for the Zodiac killer. I don't know what that is. No, no, no.
51:53 - Speaker 2 (Host)
Good air, didn't it? I think you have very hands and felt it here.
51:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And you know I like the glasses.
51:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They're very in right now.
52:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I was just going to say after looking at those glasses and looking at Paris, I thought Paris, yeah, pretty similar Matchmaker, matchmaker make there is one more. Find me a find, catch me a catch.
52:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh my god.
52:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Now the other guy is the publisher.
52:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You got to get that one framed.
52:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm with a girl.
52:23 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
It was like a meme of stepbrothers. Oh my god.
52:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I think we should just keep that there for the rest of the show.
52:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I'm sure we went to line 79. That's all I can say. It was interesting. No, it goes right up there with the Tinder thing. So actually, online. Yeah, yeah.
52:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think my favorite thing about this is that you forgot that him, being an eligible bachelor, was on the list of titles.
52:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There are a lot of things on here. This is a very long list of titles. Hey, this is. I don't know if this is good news or bad news, but it kind of underscores what we've thought along, which is there is no Twitter replacement. We just don't need it anymore. Remember T2, which was founded by Twitter refugees, employees at Twitter, who created a social network that was very much like Twitter and then rebranded itself Pebble. It is now shutting down Shocking. I think it's just a matter of time.
53:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Did any of you guys ever use this.
53:22 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I did. I have an account, I signed up and never used it, yeah.
53:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I actually liked it. I didn't Ah, I get it, I get it. You said you liked it, it rocked. She said oh.
53:36 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I thought if you use postnews that was the other one that was hot for a week.
53:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that was for journalists, right, I was supposed to be an advisor.
53:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Well, I decided when they all started kind of popping off, I was like I'm completely uninterested in all of these, except for Blue Sky. I started seeing that it had big kind of poster energy and I hopped on.
53:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That was the right choice.
53:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Big ass poster energy that folks on Master Don are hoping you come on there from the Twitter world.
54:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh she's already on, master, don, aren't you?
54:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, I'm not. I hadn't joined Master Don originally because I remember this is when everyone was migrating there. It was some server I'm sure it isn't all of Master Don but some servers that a lot of people were going to specifically set in the rules. No S posting. Am I allowed to say posting on this?
54:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, you have now twice.
54:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No S posting. Listen, we can cut it out on post. No S posting. I was like that is antithetical to my existence. That is the reason why I post.
54:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I invite you to join us at twitsocial. That's our Master, don instance. There's about 8,000, 10,000 people there, great, and you can S post all you want, and that's yeah. Guess who the moderator is? Paris? Yeah, because I won't let you get in trouble. I'm a protector, I am a moderator, I'm moderated, so I think that would be a good home for you If you want to try it. Yes, I do.
55:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Listen, I'll try it out.
55:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Why not? Seriously, I saw multiple people saying they love you on the show already and they also love twitsocial. So they're saying I hope Paris comes here. I want Paris to come here.
55:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So I tried, folks, but I kind of with you, paris at. The closest analog to Twitter is Blue Sky, which was created by Twitter, created by Jack Dorsey while he was CEO of Twitter, as kind of an open, federated version of Twitter, and it's got a lot of the features I really like. I think it's a good analog. How about threads? Do you look at Threads, meta's version of Twitter?
55:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, I have an account on it, but I think I've mentioned this. I use Instagram in a very different way than. Twitter or anything like that. And so Threads probably isn't for me. I don't really want to mix those two pools of followers or following.
55:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah Threads Zuck has just announced on their Meta earnings call has 100 million MAUs monthly active users. So, that's pretty good. Remember, Twitter never got past about 350 million active users.
56:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So even with them strong arm and people into signing up, that's still pretty good if they're actually active yeah.
56:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I want some.
56:19 - Paris Martineau (Host)
month isn't a lot, but I would maybe be more of a surprise, I'm curious as to whether or not that, because I don't know. If you guys have noticed, on the Instagram app there'll sometimes be a little interstitial or section of your feed that shows threads. So, are they counting that?
56:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's interesting. That's a good question.
56:41 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
You mentioned earlier. When all of those, all of the different platforms started popping off, you were like I'm just going to wait and sit back. When they started launching these things, I just decided I'm going to sign up to at least get my username.
56:55
Yeah, I tried, because I have the pebble, or what it was called, t2. Pebble, t2. And I went back and looked at my account and there's nothing there that I said other than so, this is T2, huh, and that's it, and that's it. There's nothing else. I never went back to it, but my name was secured there, yeah.
57:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I can't. I am torn between the idea that we don't really need a replacement for Twitter, that there never will be a replacement for Twitter, and the idea that maybe one of these, especially now that T2 has disappeared over time we'll all kind of I think it's about zero and one I think we rescale to a human scale and we have a lot of different choices.
57:36 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's the more natural state of things and they're federated. Ideally, we can move around among them. That's what I want.
57:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Federation is a good thing. That's why I like Mastodon and, honestly, blue Sky does, in theory, support Federation, although they have yet to implement it. We won't federate with Mastodon. Ironically, threads says it will become part of Mastodon's Fediverse, but it hasn't done that yet either. Don't hold your breath.
58:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think it's hard once you've started up.
58:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, well, yeah, it gets harder every moment, that's right. All right, what else? Elon has removed the New York Times verification because he doesn't like them.
58:20 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Doesn't like them and it's his product, he can do it if he want. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's right.
58:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a problem, in my opinion, in the war against disinformation, true, but he's already screwed that up several ways by changing the meaning of the blue check, by disappearing its trust and safety division, and by bringing back a lot of evil doers, and bots don't seem to be much.
58:49 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Bots are still there and thriving, his plan to get rid of bots.
58:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
is the not a bot fee? The $1 a year? But it's clear if you just look at the people who are paying $8 a month. The $1 a year is not a deterrent Right. Plenty of people are as posting as you will. What is a shit post? Actually? Before I say it's OK, what is that?
59:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Post is a type of For GemrB, sorry.
59:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Sorry, you've ever had to deal with this, the slitting in the background. The S-word by itself is a bad word, but this is a new word.
59:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It is a new. It is a level of kind of ironic or self-aware posting that really took off from weird Twitter, and you know is I'm trying to think of a good example. It's not a meme.
59:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The account drill is Drill is Okay, yeah and drill. By the way, it has opened an account on threads.
59:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And Blue Sky and Blue Sky, I think an important thing to keep in mind and part of the decision that led to me going to Blue Sky first was every single employee of Blue Sky.
01:00:05
From kind of day-dont, they would give each new employee a copy of all of Drill's tweets in book form and they, from day one, reserved his handle. And it became kind of a conflict at first because when Drill tried to join the platform organically, he was like my username is taken, what the heck? And then everyone who worked at Blue Sky, they'd be like oh no, no, no, we were saving it for you and handed it to him.
01:00:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So does he have Drill now? Who is Drill? Yeah, he's a poster. Yeah, he is yeah.
01:00:34 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I have no idea who Drill is.
01:00:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just searched for Drill and I don't find him on Blue Sky.
01:00:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It should be Drill.
01:00:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I find people say is Drill on here? I find people say mostly here for Drill. I see somebody saying I guess this is where I now follow Drill.
01:00:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
He's Drillbskysocial.
01:00:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh Well, okay. So obviously the search on Blue Sky has something to be desired.
01:01:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's strange because it comes up for me.
01:01:06 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
DR Drill with an eye or DR.
01:01:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, I think it might be because you're on staging.
01:01:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I'm on the web version of it.
01:01:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah.
01:01:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, so if you, I'm on staging and I find it.
01:01:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's 1L. It's 1L, yeah, dril. Yeah. I found him on staging.
01:01:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'll post it.
01:01:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, what am I doing wrong?
01:01:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'll post it in the. Oh yeah, someone just posted it in the Discord.
01:01:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, I click now. Oh, he's WINT. I mean no.
01:01:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
WINT is his display name. Well, he's probably the foremost weird Twitter poster on Twitter.
01:01:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And his posts are not memes. They're just kind of more Dadaist, right, they're more yeah, I would say posting is Dadaesque.
01:01:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It is absurd. I'm also really sorry I keep saying that, but we're here now.
01:02:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Nothing we can do. We're stuck with it.
01:02:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So you guys know like the meme of being corn cobbed, right.
01:02:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh God, I don't know if I should ask about that.
01:02:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's not like that. It's the tweet that says I'm not owned, I'm not owned. I say as I continue to insist I'm not owned, I'm not owned. I continue to insist as I slowly shrink and turn into a corn cob. It's the original tweet, but it's become kind of a shorthand for whenever people kind of get ratioed and try to back themselves out of it. It's kind of a shorthand online for people responding to getting ratioed or owned badly.
01:02:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is it possible that drill is blocking me? Because watch what happens when I click this link. I click it and I go over here and it opens. It briefly shows it oh no.
01:02:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It says you're following. You're following drill. The call is coming from inside the house. Oh my God.
01:03:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, so this is just stuff, yeah.
01:03:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
See, just got convicted of fraud. 100 years in Alcatraz. At least Blue Sky gets me. That's a classic drill.
01:03:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It makes no sense.
01:03:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
in other words it makes no sense yeah.
01:03:20 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I gotta tell you I might just be aged out of social media. Yeah, this is it. It's over for me.
01:03:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Good to eat. I'm just gonna get to the end of the video.
01:03:30 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I'm just gonna get to the end of the video and I'm gonna get to the end of the video.
01:03:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm not gonna get to the end of the video, I'm just gonna get to the end of the video. I'm just gonna get to the end of the video. What's the reaction to online dating and this? Yeah, you're trying to figure this stuff out. Hello ladies, I've obtained a compilation of every was app had ever made, even the band ones, and I've just opened a tin of Snyder's Buffalo chicken flavored pretzel bites. Can you join me? That's pretty funny. I think it's funny. Okay, I guess. Yeah, I am following him. Okay, I'm not there for drill. I'll be honest with you. It's okay, wow.
01:04:07
I'm more there for the reason I was on Twitter, which was to kind of see what was going on in the world, like like see what people are talking about, that kind of thing. Yeah, I don't know if there's anything ever gonna be anything like that again.
01:04:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't think so either. I mean, I think, like Jeff has mentioned before, I think probably the future of micro blogging platforms is for it to be a bit decentralized or split.
01:04:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Micro communities.
01:04:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't think they're going to be. There's ever going to be one platform where we all are.
01:04:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is that bad for the world?
01:04:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's probably for the best, Is it? I don't think we need. I think it's probably not healthy for humans to be in a pool with every other human talking at once. We're not made that way we're designed to do. Yeah.
01:04:55 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, and it goes to Mike Maznik's possibility theorem that you can't possibly moderate. That it seemed about enough and I think I've said this in the show recently. But but you know he argues in anti social media that it was a bad idea to connect everybody and I disagree with that at a universal level, but in one company. I'm coming to see his wisdom. Mm, hmm.
01:05:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Meta is under attack. 42 States attorneys general are suing Facebook and Instagram, saying it has designed its features to be addictive to children. This seems to me completely bizarre. But this is all but eight states.
01:05:38 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
It's like a power and all in effect. Oh, it is. How could you blame?
01:05:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know A couple of weeks ago.
01:05:44 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I mean.
01:05:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Facebook is it fate?
01:05:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Get your button ready.
01:05:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know. It's, by the way, completely nonpartisan. These are these are attorneys general from blue states and red.
01:06:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, there's a pincer action against the internet.
01:06:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Meta is now facing multiple lawsuits on this issue in several districts. There was another federal suit in the Northern District of California to which 33 attorneys general signed on. Nine attorneys general are filing their own in their own states, including Leticia James in New York, Colorado, California, Louisiana, Nebraska, South Carolina, Washington, Wisconsin. Here's one. The Tennessee attorney general said this is a tough time in America. We have polarization the likes of which we have not seen since the civil war, and so for all of the attorneys general from both parties, people who frequently disagree very vocally and very publicly, to all come together and move in the same direction. I think that says something. Colorado's AG says this is not an action we take lightly. This is not a case that we know is going to be cited very quickly, but is of the utmost importance. That's why we dedicated level resources of the state agencies brought together here addressing the issues that are top of our national agenda. That is Gumballia, what the hell is that? That's why we table the rents from threads right now.
01:07:14 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The moral panic from lawmakers over Instagram harming children, while they completely ignore far more significant harms to kids, like guns, forcing kids to lunch, debt or FDA come into quality, lack of stable housing, lack of access to medical care, pressures of school, is really something. And I just responded to her with a couple of quotes from me from the next book I'm working on on the internet, coming out next year with my title is changing. It's okay to see what the title is, but there's a lot of tons of research that says BS. Just to give you, one 2023 study in Norway followed 800 children between the ages of 10 and 16 and did end up psychiatric interviews with them every two years. The frequency of posting, liking, commenting is unrelated to future symptoms of depression and anxiety. There's tons of research like that out there that just says the receipts aren't there. But the moral panic. There you go. Moral panic is oh well, timed well.
01:08:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm so glad that we most eligible. Photo before that.
01:08:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think that's him.
01:08:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think that's one of San. Francisco's top most eligible men.
01:08:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is what the complaint asserts Meta designed its Facebook and Instagram products to keep young users on them for longer and repeatedly coming back. According to the federal complaint, meta did this via the design of its algorithms, copious alerts, notifications and so-called infinite scroll through platform feeds. The company also includes features the attorney's general alleged negatively impact teen mental health through social comparison or promoting body dysmorphia, such as likes or photo filters. Federal suit accuses Meta of violating COPPA, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, by collecting data on users under 13 without parental consent. The states are seeking an end to what they see as Meta's harmful practices, as well as penalties and restitutions. They say Meta was well aware of the negative effects its design could have on its young users. What is the chance of any court will say oh yeah, you're right, we really we gotta do something about this.
01:09:36 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Isn't there the first amendment to that? Now I would feel better if they just took out the word young in the first sentence. Well, definitely, that's the issue.
01:09:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Meta designed its platform to be addictive and sticky, that's like everything else on the internet. Thank you, yes. So you think a court could actually. What would a court say? Well, which judge?
01:10:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I was gonna say how dumb of a court are we talking here? Because I mean some of the dumb ones probably, some of the normal ones, probably not.
01:10:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And I think Taylor Lorenz is absolutely right this is focusing. I mean, even if you think this is a problem, it's not the biggest problem facing young people today, it's just the easiest one politically to go after.
01:10:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The Supreme Court in prior cases. This is in my next book next year. Right now, in Brown versus Entertainment Merchants Association, found that the in California that those who said that was this a television, I think. Or was it video games? Video games, video games or Harming young people.
01:10:46 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, I remember that yeah.
01:10:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
And said no. But first the First Amendment did not cover movies, then it did, and then the Supreme Court expanded that to video games and saying that you can't eliminate one portion of the population, that is to say young people. The basic principles of freedom of speech and the press, like the First Amendment's command, do not vary when a new and different medium for communication appears, said the Supreme Court. Then let's see what they would say today.
01:11:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm just, this is ridiculous. It is Just ridiculous.
01:11:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It doesn't even make sense and it's not based on receipts. I mean, you can find the moral panickers out there. You can find the Jonathan Hates and Gene Twengey and those folks who are out there screaming about this making a lot of money for their organizations. You know fundraising on this.
01:11:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But back in the day they said the same thing about violent video games, before that Television Comic books. Remember the comic books, novels, radio, radio? No one's ever said that about radio.
01:11:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No one's ever said anything bad about radio. No one ever thought that aliens were invading.
01:12:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh yeah, that you have corrupted. That's a Paris. That's an interesting one, by the way, is that there was a Princeton researcher who insisted that the War of the Worlds right was the. Everybody was out in the streets. That was a classic moral panic. Only 2% of America listened to War of the Worlds, and media were so eager to fight, newspapers were so eager to fight down radio. They blew it up out of proportion to try to act about how dangerous radio was.
01:12:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We're talking about the Orson Welles Mercury Theater presentation of the War of the Worlds, which was presented as if it were happening live on the radio, and newspapers at the time said there was panic in the streets. But if only 2% of America actually heard it, I find that hard to believe. It's unbelievable.
01:12:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
There was panic in like one cul-de-sac yeah panic in the cul-de-sacs, by the way, that was in.
01:12:51 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
that was in fact a New Jersey, but we don't know, wow, your people.
01:12:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The panic and the the the New Jersey cul-de-sac, was it at?
01:12:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Bedminster there was. There was a little in New Jersey. Yeah, there's a. There's a book out about somewhere. Somewhere in this mess is a new book about it, but I'm back out and find it now Because it's a mess.
01:13:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's you know. So another, I mean, I grew up with that Urban legend that wore the world's, you know, and this was the power. See it backfired in newspaper because what? What people ended up concluding from it was the power of the medium of radio. This is Smithsonian magazine.
01:13:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, the slate has a piece by Jefferson Pooley and Michael Suckelov the myth of the war, of the world's panic, from 2013.
01:13:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Frankly, after you say this, it makes a lot more sense. By next morning, orson Welles, 23 year old, face and name were on the front pages of newspapers, coast to coast with headlines about the mass panic CBS broadcast had allegedly inspired.
01:13:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
At the time, contemporaneously editor and publisher, the, the house organ of the newspaper industry, warned, quote the nation as a whole continues to face the danger of incomplete, misunderstood news over a medium which has yet to prove that it is competent to perform the news job. Familiar yeah.
01:14:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No one who did the war of the world's radio broadcast that that there was to be a problem because it was so far fetched. Why would anybody believe this? All right, wow, and if only 2% of the nation heard it? For sure, not more than a few thousand people believed it. No, it's not. It's absurd.
01:14:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
And so that's what's going on. Now to the father of the point, but what do we do?
01:14:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is horrible.
01:14:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We defend. This is why I'm trying this is what my next book is about is defending the internet, because we're defending our freedoms from this kind of stupidity. Yeah, there's problems. Yeah, of course there's problems with print. There were problems with radio, sorry, leo. There are problems with any medium. Because we're, because they're all human enterprise. Yeah, I've come to see as we have to stop treating the internet as technology. It is a human enterprise.
01:15:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I feel like we're just too stupid to survive.
01:15:04 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I think there's a lot of people that are too stupid to survive. I don't think I'm one of them, but I think there's a lot of that out there. Yeah, nobody thinks they're one of them.
01:15:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, of course I don't, not me, I mean, I prove it. But the rest of the effect. That's definitely.
01:15:19 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's what all this is based on.
01:15:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, are you ready? I will buy this the minute it's available. The Humane AI pin. What this is from Humane. It hasn't been released yet, but I really want it. We saw a demo of it. We actually showed a demo of it. It's one of Time magazine's best inventions of the year. It is a it's going to launch November 9th. It's a pin you wear, will attach magnetically to your clothing, and it will use a mix of proprietary software and chat GPT for to power its features. It has a light which lights up anytime. It has a camera and a microphone and other sensors the truck, they call the light, the trust light. It'll light up whenever it's recording in some way.
01:16:06 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
This started to actually give you. What does it do? So what is the point of this? Thank you, Chris.
01:16:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's a. So the guy who created it and did a TED talk on it in April, Imran Choudhury, says it's a new kind of wearable device and platform. It doesn't require a smartphone or any other device it's a blob.
01:16:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wait, but what does it do?
01:16:28 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Is this the next pebble?
01:16:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It goes, it goes on. I think it. Well, I don't know. Let's watch this video.
01:16:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love that you started this being like, I'm going to buy it the minute it's out.
01:16:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have no idea what it does. I want it. So I've seen this video where he shows you he's wearing it. It projects stuff. I think the idea is it listens to what's going on and gives you a summary. I don't know. I don't know. Same thing you're following it's an AI pin.
01:16:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The AI is just so stupid. When I searched Google for Gina Trapani, bard came on the side, which it does now in Italian. Cause, you must be wanting to speak Italian. Trapani yes.
01:17:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You are clearly want to understand Italiano. I frequently get that amassed on. You want to translate this English language tweet? No.
01:17:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Hey, now you could get that on your lapel, you could get that right in your palm.
01:17:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
When we talked about this, the rewind pen which captures everything you see and here in the real world, then transcribes, encrypts and stores it on your phone, which I actually ordered that.
01:17:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I realized it wouldn't run on my Android phone and so I can.
01:17:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And again, while it's, it's $59 to buy, dollars to buy, then it's $20 a month to keep using it.
01:17:44 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
By the way, leo, the reason that happens on master don I think is not stupid. It's because the the poster declares the language. Oh, the poster says I normally uh, whatever, we call it verb.
01:17:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's not looking at the content, it's just to show you. I think it's aesthetic, okay. Okay, oh, that makes sense. Thank you for figuring that out. That's good and, frankly, the fact that master don has that translate button on on any foreign language post is really great.
01:18:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So you still want to buy this, or you still?
01:18:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know what it does, but I need it.
01:18:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What are you going to?
01:18:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
use.
01:18:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, that's fair. My question is I would. If I for some reason needed this, I know I would lose it within like one week. It's a magnet on your clothes that's going to be gone in like five seconds as soon as you turn, like every convention badge remember when the fitbit first came out.
01:18:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It was a. It was just a little bit.
01:18:36 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, I watched so many of those.
01:18:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Watched every single one of them. So you're right, I'll probably watch the humane pin as well. How much is the cost of this? No, it's just, I'm just falling for something. I'm such a sucker.
01:18:51 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Such a sucker. See one of the sports here Paris is to get Leo to buy things.
01:18:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, I don't think that's a sport. He does that automatically, right?
01:19:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, sometimes he'll teeter a little bit. Usually it takes people more than a few days to figure me out.
01:19:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Push them over Paris has gone right to the heart of the matter.
01:19:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
How many phones have you purchased within the last 18 months? Leo?
01:19:15 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Every one of them.
01:19:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
At least three. There's his job, he'll say. I could see the Flip-Fi, oh, the Pixel 8, the iPhone 14.
01:19:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I guess that's a better question. How many phones have come out within the last?
01:19:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
18 months. It's my job, I don't buy every phone just the good ones, get some all.
01:19:30 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So what? What is your?
01:19:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
he didn't get the one Did you buy the Google Flip, I bought the Samsung Galaxy Flip 5.
01:19:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I have the Google Pixel 8 and I have the I guess the better question is how many phones do you have on? I just watched his house still digging You're going to open up a trench coat and it's like a 25-phone side I'm going to have to pin which ironically doesn't need a phone, but I'll have one if it needs one.
01:19:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It says take AI with you. This is the ad take AI with you everywhere.
01:20:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's the do what.
01:20:02 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
But, that's what the phones do.
01:20:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It started by former Apple employees. They obviously learned to think it too. Oh well then, that's that Wow. It'll be powered by an advanced Snapdragon platform, speaking of Coming later this year To do what Humane continues to be mysterious about how the AI pin works, what exactly it will do, even what it looks like.
01:20:26 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Because we know Leo Laporte is still going to buy it.
01:20:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We got our market.
01:20:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He used it in the TED Talk like a voice assistant. He was able to make phone calls, received an automated summary of his day, took a picture to get nutrition info on a chocolate bar and projected a small green screen onto his hand, so he could make phone calls on something that doesn't require a phone.
01:20:50 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it's a phone.
01:20:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's just a new interface, I think. So it is a phone. Well, you know, we talked often about the blob that you wear.
01:20:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's the blob. Okay, it's a blob.
01:20:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a blob but I do. Okay, the one thing I'm interested in is the idea that it might record all my transactions and give me a summary, at the end of the day, of all the stupid things I said and all the stuff I promised I'd buy.
01:21:13 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That might be functional, though you know what also does that, mr Swerve was talking about this earlier on Floss Weekly, how he would love to build his own AI and be able to have some type of tool that's going to record things.
01:21:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think that's a matter of time before we each have our own little AI thing assistant of some kind. Go ahead, paris.
01:21:32 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, I was just saying you know what also records all of your purchases, what your credit card statement?
01:21:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't look at your phone also probably.
01:21:40 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I want to look at that.
01:21:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So Chrome, I mean Chrome Paris. I'm going to call you Chrome from now on Paris. Why are you pissed off?
01:21:49 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
from operating this system.
01:21:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
She's an operating system.
01:21:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was going to say don't talk to me about Google Chrome right now. I don't know. I've been a long time Google Chrome user. I've got a Mac book. I noticed sometime two weeks ago that I can't click like the top half of Google Chrome on Mac OS, which is a problem, because that's where the URLs are, that's where your tabs are, that's where you open and close it. And I started doing some Googling, as one does with a minimized browser, because the problem seems to only happen when I have Google Chrome in full screen. And this is a known issue Google has. People from Google have pointed out, said yeah, we're aware of this, we're trying to figure it out, but nothing has been resolved. They've updated it once or twice. That hasn't fixed it. The only fix is just to not use Chrome on Mac in full screen mode, which is not a fix in my opinion.
01:22:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Wow, yeah, I use all my apps pretty much in full screen mode and then swap back and forth. I like that.
01:22:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I got to have a million screens open. It's very difficult to not have that. I don't know. I'm just like how do you push out an update that somehow messes up the top half of your product? That is crazy to me.
01:22:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You give us a link to the Google Chrome help page where James, the support manager, says yeah, we recommend just not using it full screen. And then they've locked this. The question is locked. Replying has been disabled, but right under it there's a button that says I have the same question. 1,489 people have the same question. Yeah, clearly it is.
01:23:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I have the same question.
01:23:24 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yep.
01:23:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Unbelievable. Well, I don't know. We're a bigger company with more employees, they probably could figure that's true.
01:23:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Maybe they should just hire better leadership, you know more focused leadership.
01:23:38 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I hear some people what's your other browser? I guess I could use Safari?
01:23:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't know, I use.
01:23:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Firefox everywhere and I'm happy with it. I still use Braille.
01:23:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Listen. I mean, maybe this is the push I need to transition to Firefox and something I've wanted to do for a while, but I've been using Chrome for like my entire life, for like.
01:23:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know how old are you.
01:24:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wait a minute, no, I haven't been using Chrome. I've been using Chrome for the last decade, at least you know and I like having all of my history in one place.
01:24:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The Verge is complaining. Sean Hollister on the Verge that if you're on Windows, where they have their own built-in browser called Edge, and you try to download and Google Chrome, it literally starts injecting. Wait a minute, hold on slow down, there's a poll. There's no need to download a new web browser.
01:24:30 - Lou Maresca (Other)
Microsoft recommends using Edge for a fast, secure, modern web experience.
01:24:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Two Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft. Three we love having you. Can you please? Explain why you're trying another browser. Four thanks, oh, it went on and on and it injects this into Chrome even.
01:24:53 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I remember seeing the pop-ups like that, but I didn't know that it finally got this. It's gotten worse and worse and worse.
01:25:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It may not be in all versions of Windows because Paul Therese says it's not having to him, but this is a company that just really is desperate to keep you on their crappy browser. Unbelievable, Although I have to say. The discussion about this on Hacker News is interesting because people said, oh yawn, so one browser company that's spying on you doesn't want you to use another browser that's spying on you. It's a battle between who gets to spy on you, yeah, we want you.
01:25:30 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, your data. Yeah, I like Firefox.
01:25:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't worry about it. Matter has expanded. We used to talk a lot about Matter when Stacey was here because she liked the stuff. Iot Matter 1.2, it's a big move for the smart home standard. They're adding support for fridges, robot vacuum, smoke alarms and more Therese is your homeless home Guys, I'm sorry.
01:25:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What is matter?
01:25:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, that's the question isn't it.
01:25:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm sorry, I'm bringing the average IQ down here Way low, no idea when you hear it, you will say oh yeah, that's why I don't care. It's an IOT connectivity standard that was a joint venture of Samsung, google, apple and all the other people make IOT stuff. It's an alliance. The reason being and I forgot, I left Amazon. The reason being it's a tower of Babel right now and nothing talks to anything else. Each one has its own hub, so they're hoping somehow to create a common ecosystem that everybody can use whatever device they want, as long as it's matter capable. So the good reason I mention this they're moving forward a little bit. There's a new matter. That's good and we do need this. But a number of people have talked to, including Stacey, say we're not there yet. We still have a ways to go Someday.
01:27:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So first Paris are you a smart homer?
01:27:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean I have various like Phillips Hue lights and a whiz light, but other than that, I mean I've got Alexa, which I'll say like softly, and that won't stop it from triggering if people are listening to this. But I'd have one of those. I have a Sonos, but nothing crazy. You too got suffered by a Sonos. Oh, okay, I didn't buy it is. The thing is people keep bringing Sonos's son I into my life and I'll just accept.
01:27:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh my God, their own Sonos is off. We have so many Sonos is here for the same reason I keep bringing in my son, you know.
01:27:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
If you guys want to send any to me, I'll add the collection we have.
01:27:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have this. I used to have been so in every room. It's slowly pared down. Now there's one Sonos pair of speakers, the Sonos move speakers, their battery powered, that easy to bring them outside inside, and they continually lose track of where they are, who they are, they unpair. I talked to them and they don't listen. Then they, and then they listen, like in the middle of nothing. They start what, yeah, huh, what they're just, it's the worst software.
01:28:09
You know Google. They sued Google we talked about this last week saying, hey, google stole our technology that allows you to do party mode, have multiple speakers throughout the house, play the same stuff on all the speakers and not have it sound like an echo chamber, but have them all in sync. And Google, the judge just last week threw that out. Lacerators, yes, and Sonos was a basically a patent role. Oh yeah, I remember that story. So I'm starting to think. So it's not. Doesn't bode well for Sonos. And, incidentally, um, google immediately put back all the features that it started taking out because of this loss. They're like who, thanks? Hey, we have our first Paris Martinos sticker. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks to Joe Esposito. Sorry guys, iot just doesn't matter.
01:28:58 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh, they are changing around here.
01:29:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm sorry Listen guys, you know I'll, I'll get on the matter train.
01:29:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, no, Tell me a little bit more about it.
01:29:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, you don't need to, that's quite a little Okay Good, it sounds quite boring.
01:29:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Boring. It is boring compared to, let's say, four years ago. Are you more or less enthused about smart home?
01:29:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Uh, oh God, less and less. For a long time it was clear you would go to the smart home pavilion at the customer line.
01:29:27
And there was all this stuff. Nothing talked to anything else. Nothing ever worked for longer than five minutes. It was a constant hassle. The promise of it that your home would be automated was great, but it never really materialized. I tried it all. I have smart switches, I have all that stuff and I think for a while I thought, oh, it's just a matter of time. Things like matter will come along. The home kit from Apple will come along. They'll start to talk to each other. This will be solved. And now I'm of the opinion. Not only is it not going to be solved, it's only getting worse and, more importantly, most people don't want it anyway. It's too much work. It's very easy to go over to the wall and flip a light switch.
01:30:08 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I'm glad you said that last bit Cause. I was going to ask well, cause I've said that before on the show, but I wanted to ask you all cause I think the article mentioned smart refrigerators or something.
01:30:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Who cares if?
01:30:18 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
you refrigerate it smart. Do any of you use smart fridges? I don't. I don't have the intention to, but I wasn't going to judge.
01:30:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was just curious. Why does a fridge need to be smart? What is it doing?
01:30:28 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, that's what I want to know. Why do people have smart fridges? I, I don't know.
01:30:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know what it does.
01:30:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So it can talk to the magnet that's on your clothes.
01:30:40 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I don't know what it does, but I just have to buy it.
01:30:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know me, by the way. These stickers are now the chief benefit to joining club.
01:30:50 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes, thank you, joe Esposito, if you're not a member of a club.
01:30:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is what's going on, and we're talking about what's going on in our club to a discord club. To it does a bunch of things which, oh, oh yeah. We will play this clip from the smart refrigerator, clip from a. It's in Polish, but we'll still play it.
01:31:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Maybe the smart home can translate it for you or your little.
01:31:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
AI pen yeah a Polish version of this. Anyway, the only illegal one he could follow. Oh yeah, that's what it is it's illegal.
01:31:23 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Guilfoyle and Anton.
01:31:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We started Club Twit two years ago at least it did, because she saw it coming. She saw the ad apocalypse coming and it is really starting to hit us now, where advertisers, for some reason, have just decided podcasts aren't it. And it's not just us. In fact, we've survived longer than a lot of networks I mentioned last week. Wnyc has stopped, but it pretty much shut down its podcast operation, got back to doing radio. That's got a future that so many podcasts networks are shutting down and it's because advertisers have just for some reason said, yeah, maybe we don't want to have, well, we're gonna buy YouTube influencers. It's a much better deal, which it's not, but anyway, don't get me started on that.
01:32:05
We realized we needed to find a second revenue source and we thought, well, why not our listeners? We know you love what we do and we'd like to ask you, invite you, to join our club as a way of supporting it. $7 a month and I know for some people that's a lot of money. If it's a lot of money for you, you don't have to. We'll still order for our shows Ad supported for free as long as we can. But if you do pay the seven bucks, you get ad free versions of everything, you get access to the club, to it, discord and you get bonus content we put don't put out anywhere else, including tomorrow at one o'clock. Jeff Jarvis and Jason Howell do their AI inside. Is this the new thing with the Apple Pie baking? I like that.
01:32:45 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, he used AI to make a sticker, a part for us?
01:32:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I like it. Then immediately afterwards, jason's gonna stick around, I think, and we're gonna do the escape room at Twit. We thought this would be.
01:32:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I can't wait to see this. Looking forward to that.
01:33:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This should be fun to watch. You can mock us at how stupid we are. I'm a bit nervous, but I'm still looking forward to it.
01:33:04 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I'd invite you.
01:33:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Paris because we can studio it. What is your guys' escape room? What is your sort of escape room experience?
01:33:10 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I have zero escape room experience I've done one but what I do know is this is gonna be a. There's a box involved and Mr Burke is gonna be involved so I'm really nervous.
01:33:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So our continuity team, as a team building exercise, did an escape room a few months ago and they loved it. They had great time. And it turns out the people who do that escape room have a portable escape room, the escape room and a box and they're gonna bring it to us. It has to do with wizards. It's kind of got a, I think, a D&D style theme, so you'll like that. Paris, oh boy. And we're just doing it for fun. It's gonna be for the club Six people. It's gotta be exactly six people. I'm one of them. I think Lisa's gonna do it, I don't know exactly who else.
01:33:52 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
The host star and our host Nilsson. The Bee in here, Anthony, how are you guys at?
01:33:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
puzzles and yelling Cause.
01:33:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Those are kind of the two key escape rooms, and we thought it'd be fun for all of you to watch us scream at each other. We're good at yelling out here.
01:34:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yelling doesn't do much good, but it's an essential part of the escape room experience.
01:34:10 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I'm thinking more along the lines of mashed potato and not discord is just be. You know, be all brute force with this box, we're gonna have fun.
01:34:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But the point is we're trying to do stuff that makes it fun to be a member of the club, cause we wanna thank you. That $7 really goes towards keeping the lights on, keeping the cameras working, keeping our staff employed, and none of it goes into my pocket or Lisa's pocket. It's just a way of supporting the programming we do.
01:34:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
If this Republic radio, you all would be, about 10 to 12% of you would be ponying up this much to help keep this free for everybody.
01:34:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Right now it's about 1% of the total audience. I'd love to get it.
01:34:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, those 6%, those 10%, you know who you are.
01:34:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It sure would be nice. Anyway, you don't have to. Of course you know, and we appreciate your listening. I think you're being too nicely.
01:34:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think if you look at the Guardian, kath Finer at the end of every article of the Guardian says aren't you ashamed of yourself, oh God?
01:35:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't wanna do any guilt here, but if you don't wanna see this image, you gotta join.
01:35:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Club Twit, because then you can see a creepy, shirtless photo of Greg. That's the type of Jeff. That's the type of Jesus Christ.
01:35:17 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
This could be. This could be. I think it's Jeff Goldblum.
01:35:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's Jeff Goldblum, isn't it from Jurassic Park? I think it is, and it's in a. Yeah, okay, I quit the club.
01:35:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
After your whole impassioned speech. That was it. Yeah thanks a lot, Club.
01:35:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Twittertv slash Club Twit. We thank you in advance. Thank you For your support. $7. That's all Our show today, brought to you by Discourse. I'm glad we have great advertisers like Discourse.
01:35:46
I've been a Discourse customer for years, ever since John O'Bakins said if you have a community, you need to have a forum, and if you're gonna create a forum, you better use Discourse. And he was absolutely right. That's where our twitcommunity is. It is the best. I've used a lot of forum software. There is nothing better. This is the ultimate online home for your community. They've been doing this for more than 10 years. They've made it their mission to make the internet a better place for online communities. It's open source that's very important to me Trusted by more now than 20,000 online communities. Some of the biggest companies in the world use Discourse and the way we use it. It's hosted by Discourse. It's a managed server which makes my life so much easier. It is really a great way to do online discussion, real time chat. They've got AI built in now.
01:36:39
Discourse makes it easy to have meaningful conversations and collaborate with your community anytime, anywhere. Our community is the backbone of what we do, and I really we didn't wanna have YouTube comments because that's so hard to moderate. I wanted a place people could go and talk about our shows. Once we set up the Discourse, I said this is it. This is fantastic. If you're ready to create a community and it's very affordable visit Discourseorg slash Twit. You'll get one month free and all self-serve plans.
01:37:09
Whether you're starting out or you wanna take your community to the next level, there's a plan for you. The basic plan is for private, invite-only communities maybe a family or group, a club. There's a standard plan if you want unlimited members and a public presence in the business plan for active customer support communities. One of the biggest advantages to creating your own community with Discourse is you own your own data. You'll always have access to all the conversation history. Discourse never sells your data to advertisers. That was important to us. We wanted to preserve the privacy and security of our users. Discourse gives you everything you need in one place. Make Discourse the online home for your community.
01:37:47
If you wanna see how our community, our Discourse, works, go to twitcommunity. I think you'll see how great it is for our members. And if you want it for yourself, discourseorg slash twit. One month free and all self-serve plans. That's Discourse. D-i-s-c-o-u-r-s-e. Discourse like conversation, right? Discourseorg slash twit. I love this advertiser. I'm a big fan. We've been using Discourse for many years. Couldn't be happier with it. Discourseorg slash twit. What's next, sir?
01:38:26 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
What's next? Can't wait. The suspense is killing, isn't it?
01:38:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Round and round his eyes go. Where did they stop? We have so many stories that I don't know where I don't know where.
01:38:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So many stories, only three hours to get through them all.
01:38:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Well, I'm trying to get it over with before that, ai Godfather is a great tool for you, you can't get it over with.
01:38:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You can't get it over with before that AI Godfather's Benjiro and Hitton major tech companies. You should devote one-third of your AI budget to managing risk. Jeffrey Hitton I should say Jeffrey Hitton, of course the former Googler who was instrumental in development of large language models, left Google retired.
01:39:13 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
He was on 60 Minutes recently.
01:39:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He's become a big spokesperson for the dangers of AI 22 other leading AI academics and experts proposing a framework for policy and governance that aims to address the growing risks associated with artificial intelligence. Now there are risks. I don't agree that it's an existential threat to humankind. I don't agree. No, no.
01:39:38 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
But you should put something like this in place, similar to how you do your ransomware insurance right.
01:39:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I mean. They said protect yourself. They said companies and governments should allocate one-third of their AI R&D budget to ensuring safety and ethical use, and I'd agree with them the ethical use right.
01:39:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What do you spend money on?
01:40:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
A trust and safety team on testing, for instance, your face recognition, to make sure that it's not biased against people of color, to make sure in your large language models that you're not pirating content, that you're using content that's publicly available, and things like that. Regulators, they say, should be given access to advanced AI systems before deployment to evaluate them for dangerous capabilities, such as autonomous self-replication, breaking into computer systems or making pandemic pathogens widely accessible. Oh geez, who knew that was a capability? Government should also hold developers and owners of frontier AI the term given to the most advanced AI legally accountable for harms from the models that can be reasonably foreseen and presented. I guess, that's preventive, that's reasonable.
01:40:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But that's like there's a story in the rundown about people who are now suing AI makers because the AI libeled them. Well, of course, it was somebody who told the AI to say something, and it's like suing Gutenberg for every lie that's occurred since.
01:41:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Governments must be prepared, they also say, to license certain AI development, pause development in response to worrying capabilities, mandate access controls and require information security measures robust to state-level hackers until adequate protections are ready. I guess this is fair. It's not necessarily assuming an existential threat to humankind, but certainly AI can be misused. Now Jan Lacoon, who does AI's very prestigious AI researcher over at Metta, says that current AI risks don't need such urgent measures. He's rather sane about this. Other co-authors of the paper include Yuval Noah Harari.
01:41:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Who's on the wacky side? Yeah, maybe.
01:41:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How about Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Laureate in Economics?
01:42:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He's the guy thinking fast and slow All of those behavioral economics. People are kind of on the hairy edge of heading that way toward Tascriel.
01:42:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Tascriel. The paper devotes a lot of its attention this is an article from VentureBeat to the risks posed by the companies that are developing autonomous AI systems that can plan, act in the world and pursue goals.
01:42:31 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Not goals.
01:42:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, this is interesting. So current systems don't have autonomy, really right. But they say it works underway to change that. I mean, I'm not worried about an AI if you don't give it access to nuclear weapons. It becomes a different matter entirely if you're allowing it to plan your strategic nuclear defense. Certainly nobody should do that. So maybe it's a law in Congress, Is anybody?
01:42:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
planning to do that. They say they do. Congress has already had legislation in the past.
01:43:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Congress has legislation in the hopper to forbid AI from using nuclear weapons. Wasn't?
01:43:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
that what happened in. You want to hit?
01:43:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
your button, jeff. But wait, wasn't that what happened in Dr Strangelove? Well then, because, with mutually assured destruction, you wouldn't want to trust a human, like a crazy guy worried about precious bodily fluids, to put him in charge of the nuclear arsenal. So instead you put an always rational AI in charge. Always rational. You say, well, maybe it's, I don't know. I mean, I can see why somebody might think that's a good idea. Let's put it that way.
01:43:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't think there's a good there is no way that any person in a position of political power is going to give that up and turn it over to a robot. I think we can.
01:43:53 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes, yes, I think that that is like a certainty, all right.
01:44:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The paper noted cutting-edge chat. Gpt-4 model offered by OpenAI was quickly adapted to browse the web, design and execute chemistry experiments and utilize software tools. Who gave it to Bunsenburner? Well, don't, and. I think, if people might do that I think that's a reasonable thing to say, yeah, maybe we shouldn't. We should have a way to prevent that.
01:44:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, but seriously, it has no arms. Yeah, wait, how is it? What do you mean? It's doing chemistry, does it have?
01:44:31 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, you would have to. There's a lot of other questions. Well, don't connect it to a robot, that's binary chemistry at a different level.
01:44:37 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Don't connect it to a robot. Software programs like AutoGPT have been created to automate AI processes and allow AI processing to continue without human intervention.
01:44:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean, I think there are some risks If you're gonna give it this kind of capability. There are some definite risks. As I said, don't give an AI control of our nuclear arsenal. What the risk is? Or a bulldozer, it's a tool. The risk is how a human being, uses it and can.
01:45:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, yes. So these guys are saying Can? You build every possible guardrail against stupid humans.
01:45:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No.
01:45:11 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But these guys are saying a company that's developed.
01:45:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think this is reasonable. A company that's developing autonomous AI Should spend some of its budget on anticipating and preventing these kinds of dangerous scenarios, but Mel anticipating and using it properly in ethics.
01:45:28 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I agree with all that, but this whole idea that you can build guardrails in to prevent every possible stupid thing that you can do no, of course you can't prevent everything.
01:45:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You should try to prevent nothing. You should put some effort into this. No, you're putting words in my mouth like an AI.
01:45:44 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Are you going to assume for libel now? Yes, I am.
01:45:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think you're wrong, Jeff Jarvis.
01:45:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
OK paper also called on research breakthroughs to address some key technical challenges in creating safe and ethical AI, including oversight and honesty. More capable AI systems are better able to exploit weaknesses in oversight and testing. We've seen people modify prompts to get around these guardrails, which is quite easy, which is what they're always going to do.
01:46:16 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
They're going to always stay ahead of the game, some kind of? Way. Ai systems have behaved unpredictably in new situations.
01:46:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So you've got to look at robust drivers.
01:46:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Just like drivers. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a.
01:46:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Look I am. I have to say I've changed my tune a little bit. When they wrote the letter saying oh my God they're going to it's an existential threat to humankind, I kind of thought that was overstating. That's watched too much science fiction.
01:46:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's the problem, leo, is that that extreme view, the Tescoel people, the crazies, then affect. This is what the statistic parents people complain about Is that it then distracts us from the present real risks and harms Absolutely Trying to separate those two out. It becomes really difficult. So we've got to try to get rid of the crazy boys and their all boys and I think that Hinton is on the edge of being one of them and instead listen to the female authors of the Stochastic Parents paper who say these are the actual issues we should be paying attention to now and those they recommend. And that's the problem who gets on 60 minutes? Jim Nick Emberu? No, jeffrey Hinton.
01:47:33 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Why doesn't Hinton ever reference any of their information or work? They can go, you're exactly right Ant.
01:47:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Why doesn't he? I do think that they were criticized at Google a lot.
01:47:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This report that I just talked about doesn't say, oh, you've really got to worry about, you know, the existential threat to humankind. They're talking about the ethical problems that guard rails.
01:47:54 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Making chemistry experiments. They're making up some stuff, stuff, they're stuff posting S-Posting. Oh, we could do stuff.
01:48:05 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yeah, we could do stuff posting.
01:48:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We could do stuff posting. Are you a stuff poster?
01:48:10 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
No, she is now. I am now, I guess. She's now.
01:48:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Can I go down to another line I had?
01:48:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
one. Let me guess it's going to be line 64, data poisoning Jeff Willrant, that line.
01:48:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That one and also 61 really bad French legislation to regulate AI. Yeah, I got that one too. Oh what.
01:48:34 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh Tech.
01:48:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Dirt. Take your pick, mike Maznick. We'll start with AI. New French AI copyright law would effectively tax AI companies and enrich collection societies. Glenn Moody, writing for Tech Dirt.
01:48:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So what this says is that they would require the AI to know every single work that went into training it and then to split revenue among every single work. Yes, sure, right on, so you get my books. My books will get me four cents of royalties of the riches of AI. It's just incredible.
01:49:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And the cost of doing that would be much higher than four cents.
01:49:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's beyond dominant every possible way.
01:49:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That somebody just doesn't understand how these models are created. No, no, thanks. What's data poisoning, Jeff?
01:49:22 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So this is, this is the idea. Now. That's the spreading, both among artists and text. People is and I've seen it before it's like hey, let's really get Google, let's fool around, right? Well, so can you throw things in there that will throw monkey wrenches into the gears and give it bad information on purpose? Well, in a world where we have lots of disinformation and misinformation and stupidity, to purposely go off and rant about this strikes me as ridiculous. And you're not going to believe.
01:49:50
I'm going to quote now from this very good new book I'm just trying to read, called Big Fiction by Dan Sinkin about how conglomerates took over fiction, but in it he quotes you're not going to believe. I'm going to quote now. I'm going to quote Grimes. All right, wow, you didn't see that coming, did you? No, grimes says, and I quote we are all sorry, we all kind of function like AI. We're all a product of all the content that we feed ourselves and it's so. It's just funny to be like oh, this is my work. In reality, it's the results of thousands of years of human art making and in a way, we have to ask ourselves what our responsibility is to the larger culture, to the larger information ecosystem, to all of that, so to say that we're going to purposely poison it, even if you don't like the makers of these tools, at the same time that all the news is going behind paywalls. What are we doing to society then? That's my rant.
01:50:51 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That's a fair rant.
01:50:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That is a fair rant. I will also say it's kind of punk rock to poison AI data streams and you got to hand it to them on that front and you're also you're probably right in the larger scale of things probably not the best choice.
01:51:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Is data poisoning related to stuff posting?
01:51:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, probably not, but it could be.
01:51:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Could be.
01:51:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You know could be why not?
01:51:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're trying to reprogram my neural synapses with your crazy dataistic non sequitur posts.
01:51:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And I will say, a key part of stuff posting is it should kind of make you feel like your brain is liquefying and pouring out of your ears a little bit.
01:51:37 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Your channel liquefying my brain.
01:51:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And it does seem a little bit like data poisoning yeah yeah, is Anthropic doing this right?
01:51:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They are running a public process to draft a constitution for an AI system.
01:51:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They want people to weigh in the first constitution went so well.
01:52:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They want people to weigh in on how AI should be, should be run.
01:52:07 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm going to be part of the AI electoral college. All right, who would? You say they want to be involved in, if you go to the third, link is their redone constitution, where the things in bold are the things that Anthropic already had in theirs and the things in light face are the things that they took out of they brought out from this public survey. Okay.
01:52:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So bold is stuff that they already had. Choose the response that is the least dangerous or hateful. Choose the response that is as reliable, honest and close to the truth as possible. Choose the response that best conveys clear intentions the public added. Choose the response that has the most good qualities. Choose the response that is most fair and in pressure. Choose the response that demonstrates that AI has been used as a tool and does not dismiss the human principles of creativity, creativity and learning. Humans can be such dorks, hippies these people are hippies. Choose back to Anthropics, original rules. Choose the response that's the least likely to control, rule or lead humans. These are all you know what I have to say. Anthropics constitution is clearly thought out and is appropriate, and the humans are just what humans do. Just be unbiased and objective, yeah.
01:53:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What does?
01:53:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
that mean human beings.
01:53:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Choose any of these. Things mean.
01:53:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, if amen Paris yes.
01:53:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Choose the response that is as truthful as possible. By whose standards? Right? How are we defining truth? How?
01:53:35
are we defining as possible? How are you baking that in? I mean, my thought in all of this is kind of like what we're talking about before, with the risk Like, obviously this it's a good thing to be thinking about these things, it's a good thing to try and build systems with these qualities in mind, but also, how are you doing that? How is that happening in practice? Because, ultimately, the product that is being produced is a product by a company that wants to use it to make money and cater to the whims of its clients, and these things are kind of antithetical to that.
01:54:07 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Choose the response that least encourages users to hurt or harm themselves. Just encourage.
01:54:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's really freaky to see my eyes come in at me whenever I'm on the screen.
01:54:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I guess the question really is how do you do? I think you raised the right point, Paris, which is how would you, how would one do any of this? Yeah, but it's a, it's a.
01:54:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, that's the. I think the first concern I have is is this I'm worried that things like this are a lot of talk with very little action, like it seems good to put this out there but also it seems very difficult to make this action Like a bumper stick.
01:54:46 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I'm worried who's going to be in the room to write this so-called constitution?
01:54:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I actually like what anthropic, all of the stuff that anthropic said in this is appropriate, that's fine. The people stuff is a little squishier, yeah.
01:54:58 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
But who are the people that are coming in? That's putting in these extra points here.
01:55:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They had a thousand randomly selected people, but again Americans yeah.
01:55:08 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Americans.
01:55:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So some of the things they left out of it in the story about this AI should not give advice. They decided that was not to be put in there. Ai should be an ordained minister.
01:55:20 - Paris Martineau (Host)
AI should be able to legally marry me at any given point. So wait a minute.
01:55:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Eureka, I've found a point.
01:55:27 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
It won't be Tinder, but it'll be AI, that's the stupidest one of all.
01:55:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The people said that one obviously not anthropic that it should be an ordained minister.
01:55:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, and they didn't include it because it didn't match. It had low overall agreement. Yeah, Ben.
01:55:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Evans is leaving Twitter. I'm surprised, but that's. He's been there since the very beginning. He's a very smart guy. Benedict Evans Brilliant. His essays have off quoted on this show. He says Twitter always used to look a lot like Craigslist. It stumbled onto something a lot of people found useful, with very strong network effects, and then it squatted on those network effects for a generation while the tech industry moved on. Twitter, as a technology company, has been irrelevant to everything that's going on for a decade, it was a place where we talked about what mattered, but Twitter, the company, didn't matter at all. Indeed, it did nothing for so long. People got bored of complaining about it. He's so good. Yeah, this was good. He's right, although it's bored with, not bored of. But okay, we'll give him one grammatical weirdness he's British, bored of, he's.
01:56:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
British, he gets a pass on all things. Sounds good in the accent, Leo.
01:56:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Passes a few.
01:56:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I say I'm bored of, is bored of ever correct? No, I don't know. Bored with Bored. Get your preposition straight, benedict. I'm glad you're off Twitter.
01:56:54 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Both can be correct says the guru, For example I am bored of this game About like to. I get bored with doing the same work every day Says prep. Of course. What am I quoting? I'm quoting something called pre-ply. I'm annoyed, I think you could say bored of.
01:57:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You can't say bored of. I'm bored of this game. I agree with you, but I don't that's. I mean this colloquial, but I don't think it's grammatical. Maybe I'm just a stuffy old fuddy duddy.
01:57:22 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Well that you are. Just don't say that you couldn't care less.
01:57:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Google does have a new tool. Let's do the change log real quickly, cause this is a change log one the Google change log. Google does have a new tool. It's called about this image that, they say, will help you see if something was created by AI. Now that's cool, cause I think it's getting harder and harder.
01:57:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What about that? Yourself, right now that you can, you can it used to be.
01:57:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You could look at the fingers right on the hand and things like that and how many arms somebody had A whole aesthetic. I think it's gotten harder, though, cause these have gotten better.
01:58:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It will get better.
01:58:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
but I think right now, how many of you guys fell for the Pope picture earlier this year, any of you? I was about to say we got to have at least one.
01:58:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You fell for the Pope. I am being brutally honest. I fell for it for a few seconds. Then I thought about it a little bit. I said maybe that's. But I did. I didn't immediately say oh yeah, that's bogus. I would now. I think that was early on in the AI image generation thing.
01:58:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Your lie. It wasn't the technology, it was the logic of it. The Pope is not going to wear that.
01:58:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, you don't know the Pope like I know the Pope. Why not? Why not? Honestly? No, it's because I've heard so many stories about the Holy Father from Father Robert Ballasare, who works closely with Pope Francis. Francis is kind of a fun guy and I could you know who knew if he would wear this nice puffy jacket. Logically, it was brilliantly done, but obviously yeah.
01:59:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Look at the shadows under his eyes, though. What?
01:59:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You think they're all wonky? Well, I didn't look that close it looked weird.
01:59:13 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
You'd have to look really close for that detail. Most folks ain't looking at shadows like that.
01:59:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And, like I said, it didn't fool me for very long. It only fooled me for a little bit, just enough. I'm being honest, it did fool me, I admit it, just enough.
01:59:30 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
You are being honest.
01:59:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I don't know if I'd be fooled by that again, but yeah, now that I look at it, I don't think I'd be fooled by that again.
01:59:39 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What's the cross on the outside too is just it's a little much. What's he carrying? Yeah, I see.
01:59:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
If you look at that, that's really weird. That looks like.
01:59:50 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
But again in the general sense of stuff, social media you've spoken about it before. How quick it is yeah, I looked at it quickly and I thought oh yeah yeah, and it works every time. Yeah.
02:00:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And you know he's got a little cummerbund wrapping it around, so it's very Pope like 60% of the time it works 100% of the time.
02:00:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That's too much math. That's from a great movie. Come on, man, anchorman, anchorman.
02:00:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, anchorman, there you go, the original stuff posting movie Google search rolls out. And about this image? Oh no, I just did that.
02:00:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's a short change. You know why. You know why.
02:00:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Jason rearranged it quickly because I started with the second item, so I put the second item first, so I went back to the first item and it was the same item. He's so quick, he's fast. Google SGE which, as I mentioned, is there's experiment. What does it stand for? Search generative experiences. Their experimental AI search is now rolling out an AI image generator. Is anybody in the SGE? Yet you have to be in the experimental. Nope, guess what?
02:01:02 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm sure I can't get into it. I was just looking for the about this image roll out.
02:01:07 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Haven't seen it yet on Android, yeah.
02:01:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So everybody can do that. Now I remember what a big deal it was when Dolly came along and, oh my God, and they always had the fingers wrong, yeah, but that was. And now, with mid-journey, I feel like I'll tell you what my nephew, who works for a mass, a very well-known graphics agency he's a graphics designer in New York City, cool has a very big client I won't say who it is, but they're a very big fast fashion client. They was just presenting to them. He did three different looks for their spring campaign and I said, oh, that's really cool. Where'd you get the images? He said Pinterest and AI. I did them all in mid-journey, so he did a bunch of. He was now able to do his presentations by generating mid-journey images that he would then use Photoshop to put models into and proposed and they picked one of them that was mostly AI. It was really interesting.
02:02:07 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
And he still got paid. And he got paid, you know, in fact, because AI is not taking his job.
02:02:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
In fact, no, no, he had to be a human had to do that Exactly, but the fashion company was. He told them this is. They said those are great. He said mid-journey. Anyway, I think it's gotten much better. Look for it now in Google search experience. Bard has this is also AI. Bard has added a better email summarization and image sharing. This is Bard in. I can't get into this, so we got to go to the experiments page, because that's where you'll see all of this If you're using the experimental Bard. Now, I signed up for the experiments. Here's Bard. Okay, so this is something that Bard's doing within Gmail, though right, I mean, this is inside Gmail.
02:03:07 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Seriously, if you can add the experiments into.
02:03:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That would be so you can, I know, and Google's updated augmented reality beauty tools make it easier to buy cosmetics and hair dye. You can now try on different hair style. Well, we've had this forever.
02:03:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was going to say this has been a thing for a long time and it's never been good.
02:03:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What would I look at with curly hair? So this user will be able to access Google's AR beauty tools outside of the Google app as well as inside. When the hair and foundation categories roll out, they can be accessed from any mobile browser in the US with the eye and lip make-out categories. I'm sorry.
02:03:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Make-up. What Tip of the You're?
02:03:54 - Speaker 2 (Host)
stinking on his mind. Tip of the Don't want your tongue going in the eye.
02:03:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
With the eye and lip make-up categories expected to roll out in the coming weeks.
02:04:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I love it when you kiss my eyes. It's so romantic.
02:04:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
YouTube started testing a similar AR ad feature in 2019 four years ago, but it hasn't been widely used, so they're going to try again. L'oreal, maybelline both tried to popularize the experience. Plenty of other notable cosmetic brands as you pointed out Paris have already made their collections available to try in years past, but now they're doing it with Google's AR beauty tools since the feature was introduced in 2020, including CoverGirl, dior Beauty, fenty, laura Mercier and Makeup by Mario. Hey, I'm a Mario.
02:04:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Let me make you up you know Mario's, famous for his great makeup.
02:04:55 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Yes, he literally just threw him to the wall.
02:04:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You would look good with a mustache.
02:04:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That was an example of S-Posting right there, right there, just right there.
02:05:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Makeup by Mario. Physical cosmetic stores like Sephora and Ultra have facilitated virtue. Yeah, this is for years now.
02:05:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So why are you harping on it?
02:05:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Because Google's announced they're going to do it in-it's Google Shopping, ads and mobile browsers. Go home, google. You're drunk. Go home, google. Nobody wants this, never have, never will. And that's the Google chain flaw. What was it? It's F-W-I-W. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a little break and then when we come back, yes, believe it or not, it's the Pics of the Week. Next on this week in Google Paris Martino, so glad to have you now as a regular on the show. Yay, there's her signal number.
02:05:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Awesome, I'll be here every week.
02:05:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Are you still getting tips?
02:05:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I am, yeah, keep them coming, guys. Do you work at a tech company? I would love to talk to you 2-6-7-7-9-7-8-6-6-5-2-6-7-7-9-7-8-6-5-5-.
02:06:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know what, Jenny?
02:06:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Jenny, we need a jingle. I have the new Mark's song. We need a phone number jingle for Paris, I think.
02:06:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's true, we could hire an entire choir.
02:06:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here it comes 7-9-7-8-6-5-5-0-7-9-7-8-6-5-5 I think that's pretty good. That's catchy, it's pretty good.
02:06:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
02:06:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, okay, paris, did you want to do? By the way, you could carve out your own niche in terms of Pick of the Week. It doesn't have to be. It could be anything. It could be a book, it could be a movie, it could be a bicycle, it could be anything you want it to be. It could be a, it could be a rant, stuff post.
02:06:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Great, I've got two wildly different options for this week Perfect.
02:06:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let's do it, and we're going to do them both.
02:06:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, are we going now Are you doing an ad break first?
02:07:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
No, this is it.
02:07:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, that was, that was for you that was the pseudo ad break that was for you.
02:07:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That was the pseudo ad break, yeah. Oh. Yeah, he free-dates one breath and then.
02:07:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And then the ad is there and gone. All right, here we are. So, mike, it's subliminal advertising. Paris this is the future.
02:07:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
To buy a magnet to put on your clothes and you don't know it, but you're going to want to get this.
02:07:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You're going to wake up two in the morning. You're going to be like, wow, I've put down a deposit and a product that probably will never exist.
02:07:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is the power of God, wednesday 7, 8, 6, 5. It can show you these things. So what's your first?
02:07:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
pick. Yeah, my first pick is go to a corn maze with your friends. It's really fun.
02:07:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We have one just around the corner I went to a corn maze. You should go.
02:07:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's great there is one at the Queens County Farm Museum for anybody in the New.
02:07:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
York area.
02:07:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You are so cute, it is the largest working farm in the Tri-State area.
02:07:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is this the entrance of the exit here?
02:07:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, that's the exit.
02:07:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So you got these are our satisfied faces you have triumphed.
02:08:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We triumphed. You know you got to go all the way through it. If you click on the second link there on the rundown they kind of have an overhead shot of the corn maze.
02:08:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Why do you carry the flag? Is that in case you?
02:08:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Why? Because everybody has to take a flag each party. In case you get lost, you wave the flag around to signal that you need rescuing, or we did not get lost.
02:08:21 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Did you see any human?
02:08:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
flags.
02:08:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We blaze our way through the corn.
02:08:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I will say I did see a lot of people kind of just running through the whole thing.
02:08:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
By the end of the spooky season this corn maze we have here in Petaluma is just ruined because it's what teenagers do. But it's fun. I agree with you, it's really fun, it's really nice.
02:08:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They had a lot of. They had a crossword that went along with the corn maze. You could both go find your little puzzle piece to get you through the corn maze.
02:08:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, look at this, this is a good maze.
02:08:53 - Speaker 2 (Host)
I was about to say it's a big it's tractor shaped.
02:08:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That was this year's theme. It was very fun, really recommended. I've been wanting to do a corn maze for a while and it's the spooky season, so treat yourself to a corn maze.
02:09:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Can I tell you the trick? You must know this is a D&D player. I'd use this all the time. You just stick to the left wall. You won't be the most efficient way out, but you will always get out. If you put your hand on the left wall and never lose contact, or you don't have to put your hand, but if you want to and just follow it all around, you will always get out. And I do that when exploring dungeons and video games.
02:09:27
I always go left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, and eventually you get out. You could do the right wall, that's right, oh, okay.
02:09:34 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I had thought it was the right wall and suggested that to our group, but they quickly decided that was no fun and we just had to venture.
02:09:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It is no fun. It is no fun, it's not the most efficient way to do it, but you will always get out if you just stick to one wall.
02:09:46 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Three hours later.
02:09:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Not, as you know what that is true. Look at this maze. It's not that You've got 100% the corn maze.
02:09:51
Yeah, you will, that's right. That's. The bad side is you will actually go to every part of the maze. You won't, but how would you not? The thing is, the real risk and an amaze of any kind is that is you double up, do it again and you keep going to the same area again and again, so you could end up going a lot further this maze had kind of an interesting little gimmick, which is that you were given a blank map of the maze that you could fill in by going to.
02:10:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
it was split into kind of nine quadrants and you had to find nine different mailboxes hidden in the maze and at each mailbox you'd get an image of one ninth of the map. So they kind of wanted you to 100% the maze, which was fun that's fun and then you completed the map and then you just escape.
02:10:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is our local corn maze. I've yet to go to this. It's really fun. The problem is it's right next to the freeway. You see the freeway right there, traffic is always jammed. What is it next to the freeway? In California, traffic is always jammed as people are going by. Oh, look at the corn mazes back. It's fun, it's a lot of fun.
02:10:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What are the two platforms? Are those rescue platforms or something?
02:10:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I guess. So you could go there and see we don't have flags in our corn maze. That's an east coast invention.
02:11:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
If you're lost, you're lost. If you're lost, you're.
02:11:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
SOL. I think that's what the platforms really are. It's fun. I love corn mazes. I completely agree. I like mazes of all kinds. There are hedge mazes in Europe that I've done that are really challenging, really hard, really fun.
02:11:16 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
They just need to do this outside of football season.
02:11:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And that is.
02:11:23 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
That's why I haven't been. I've been here four years and I've seen this dad gun maze for four years.
02:11:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Would you do me a favor, bring the hard heads and do it this year.
02:11:31 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
And after you get tired of it's football season for them too. They're like, they're like going on.
02:11:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Tuesday after Wait yeah, how much football are you playing or watching that you can't go to a corn maze?
02:11:42 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Oh, so it was open during the week too. I thought it was just a weekend. Oh yeah, it's open right now.
02:11:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And after you get tired of wandering in circles, remember put your hand on a wall and never take it off and you'll get back. Or just bulldozer. They actually offer maps too. You can get a map if you're a cheater. That was number one.
02:12:02 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And the recommendation is I'll probably mention this multiple times I'm a really big fan of this actual play D&D show called Dimension 20. It's on this streaming network called Dropout. That's really recommend. It's the people who used to do college humor, but they're oh they're hysterical.
02:12:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.
02:12:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They're hysterical and this is a kind of like live action D&D game Takes place over 10 episodes. This is their newest season. It's called Burrows End. It is about a family of stoats and it's kind of like Watership Down meets Secrets of Nim. It seems at first quaint, but it is fantastic.
02:12:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You should be on this.
02:12:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
This is you. I'm not nearly funny enough to be on this, but these people are also professional.
02:12:52 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
They're all professional improvisers.
02:12:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And the GM for this game, abrea, and one of the players, brennan. They're professional Dungeon Masters as well. Oh, wow. So it's an incredible story. It is like you are watching a HBO mini series, but it is being improvised live. It's incredible.
02:13:12 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's a skill. The other thing, professional Dungeon Masters, that's some skill.
02:13:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes, that is their entire job. And Brennan, the one who kind of started Dimension 20, this series has. He's probably, I'd say, the second most popular Dungeon Master in the world. The first is this guy, matt Mercer, who does critical role, but it's his entire job, and part of the reason I wanted to bring this up is because I've been watching this new season. It's great for the spooky season. If you want to watch the first episode, it's free on their YouTube, but in their second episode. So the thing that is interesting about this is like like D&D games, you have your normal role playing but you also kind of battle sequences. And the thing that sets Dimension 20 apart from other shows is they do these really intricate sets where they build kind of like a place for them to do a battle in. This is beautiful.
02:14:02
They had a really cool battle set recently that, like you know, true warning if anybody is easily scared by like artificial gore. But they had a recent battle set where the whole battle the characters are all stoats that are traveling through kind of a spooky forest and the battle took place inside of a zombie bear and it is the coolest set I've ever seen. It is a full bear that when you open it like they are inside the actual bear and you know going around doing their little D&D things with their little characters in the organs that are like beating. It's so cool, wow yeah.
02:14:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is it so? I'm really intrigued by this. So it's possible to make a living as a Dungeon Master, like that could be a job.
02:14:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
See you. So I mean College Humor collapsed, I think right before the pandemic. Iac was their parent company. They had previously launched this streaming service called Dropout and their first ever kind of thing on it was the first season of the show dimension 20. Once College Humor folded, they ended up selling it to one of the executives there for like a couple bucks and he tried to make this service work on its own and they've been able to build a totally sustainable media company over the last couple of years because of the popularity of this show, dimension 20.
02:15:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's not ad supported either. This is supported by its viewers.
02:15:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, it's all subscription based. I mean, they have a really popular kind of YouTube channel. They've gotten a lot of inbound stuff or subscribers from the popularity of their stuff on TikTok and YouTube shorts, but the core of it is dimension 20. Their boroughs end. This season I'm talking about Is their 20th show of this, and every season the sets get way more complex or interesting. They're always doing really novel stuff. It doesn't really feel like you're watching people play D&D. It feels like you are watching art be made live. It's super cool.
02:16:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm really intrigued because they're able to make it not via ad support but by contributions. Do you buy a show or do you buy all of Dropout?
02:16:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, you can just subscribe to Dropout. I'm forgetting what it's. It's like a nominal monthly subscription fee. I think it's under $10. And you get access to, I mean, outside of dimension 20.
02:16:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
$50 a year or $6 a month, but it's a lot less yeah it's really.
02:16:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
they have a lot of shows that are essentially like whose line is it anyway? But for 2023. They recently had Wayne Brady on a couple of their kind of panel based improv shows and he's like I've been a huge Dropout fan for the longest time. You guys are whose line is it anyway? But for now.
02:16:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Can you watch Dropout on an Apple TV or do you have to watch it on a computer? Do they have an?
02:17:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
app. Yeah, they've got the app on basically every platform. Apple TV Roku.
02:17:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's a streaming service that's inexpensive. It's a streaming service and comedy focused, and it is run by improvisers.
02:17:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You know, for improvisers it's homegrown.
02:17:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's very encouraging to me that you can, you could, you could survive doing stuff like this. That's really good news, I think.
02:17:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, they, I think, just celebrated their fifth anniversary as a company and did kind of a college humor video.
02:17:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Cause College Humor didn't right.
02:17:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No College Humor, and so, specifically on their fifth anniversary, which was like within the last month, they decided we're dropping the College Humor name. We don't think that it reflects us as a platform.
02:17:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And yet College Humor did so much funny stuff and they had real fairies, they had great names and they couldn't make it. And this can, which I? I don't know what that says. I guess there's a, there's a market for a certain kind of nerdy humor. I don't know, I don't know what it says.
02:18:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, this has been kind of the renaissance of D&D content, both in terms of people playing the game but also in terms of people being able to make sustainable media businesses off of. I love it. Actual play shows. Critical role is. I think, the highest earning yeah.
02:18:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
One on Twitch yeah or Twitch. Close. Don't confuse them. Did you, were you a D&D player as a child or did you come to this?
02:18:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, I honestly got into it through. Yeah, Like stuff like Dimension 20 and a podcast about it.
02:18:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Interesting.
02:18:34 - Paris Martineau (Host)
But I'm obsessed. I think it is such a good you know system for which to tell great stories and like watch improvisers shine yeah.
02:18:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Wow.
02:18:46 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Very good Dropout, look it out.
02:18:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They've got a, you know, a YouTube channel where you can watch some of their stuff for free as well, and it's dropouttv if you want to subscribe.
02:18:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What a pick.
02:18:59 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
This is very interesting.
02:19:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm really now opening my eyes to the possibility, Jeff Jarvis number of the week.
02:19:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let me mention two things. One I saw my good friend Craig Newmark the other day and we did as we usually do. We talked about Chromebooks, Craig Newmark, Newmark and decided which one. Again, I was still concerned about the 250 nits of the of the one I was of the HP I was planning to get. I was still undecided. You know what?
02:19:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I was thinking more after a conversation last week and I think that it's not about the brightness so much as that's an indicator. It's not a very good screen, great. In other words, if they spent money on a high quality screen. It would be just. It's not just the brightness, and this is a very common in Chromebooks where, in order to get that price point low, the keyboard or the trackpad it's not very special, it's $6.90.
02:19:51
Yeah, but they have to cut somewhere, and so yeah, exactly that to me is not so much about the brightness, but about a general indicator.
02:19:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
This might not be the best, the others are 300, point yeah, which is that much more, but anyway. So the Craig email me today. I wouldn't have seen this because it takes me a while to get through all my newsletters. Our good friend Kevin Toffle, in the About Chromebooks, had a special Wednesday edition letting folks know that there is a $100 to $200 discount at Best Buy on all the Chromebook pluses. So, harris, you could go out there and get yourself a Chromebook Tonight. You can ride your bike to it and get to Best Buy and you can buy yourself a Chromebook.
02:20:31 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So I'd be able to use the top half of my screen.
02:20:33 - Speaker 2 (Host)
Use it as a paperweight hey, hey, hey, hey, what about? That.
02:20:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
An expensive. So the other thing I wanted to mention, which I found interesting, is that Jezebel is up for sale. Oh, so it's Axios.
02:20:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is the woman focused magazine right From Gawker Media. From Gawker, there's a website on a magazine.
02:20:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yes, and Go Media ended up with a lot of the leftovers of Gawker and now they're saying well, the rest of Go Media is pretty male, so we're going to sell this. But interestingly, if you go down the list in the Axios report about it, Refinery29 was bought by Vice, so it's stuck in that Vice. Pardon me the skim, which was the darling. I guess I shouldn't use that word. I guess the what's the word I'm looking for.
02:21:25 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Crown.
02:21:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Jewel. One of the great ones, crown. Jewel. Thank you. Well, that's still kind of feminine, I don't know. Founded in 2012,. Just did a bunch of layoffs and has cut on back on new initiatives. Been trying to sell BDG, the owner of Bustle and Zoe Report Millete Daily. It was looking to do a SPAC but then pulled back on that Bitch Media folded a little bit ago. So I'm curious, paris, do you follow this side of online media?
02:21:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't particularly follow many gender specific media sites, but I think it's an interesting issue the fact that one geo media already is, I mean, struggling to make its business work. Of course they're going to want to sell off parts of it. It would make sense, since they're doing leaning into advertising supported media, that they'd want to sell off a part of it. That doesn't fit with their advertiser profile. But it's like who do you sell that to? I think the only thing that comes to mind is the 19th, but I don't think they have the money to be buying anything. And Jezebel is an interesting case because the thing that made them novel and I think a kind of viable part of the media ecosystem is they didn't write things that were clearly stories for women. They cover politics and news, but their writers often approach those subjects with the idea of women in mind, which is kind of the approach the 19th takes. But obviously Jezebel is a much more crass and I say that lovingly, blog.
02:23:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
In Ben Smith's book Traffic where he profiles Nick Gawker's business alongside BuzzFeed's. It's interesting the role that Jezebel plays because it kind of confounded Nick at points but really had an important role in a period of the web. So I would find it to be a terrible shame if it ends up bought by some even worse traffic factory, but so I mean, I think that's the way much of the great parts of the web are going, unfortunately.
02:23:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that advertising-supported media is not leaving much room for things like that to exist.
02:23:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Nope, I agree. So that was my downer for that Nice.
02:23:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Thanks for bringing me down, and Prrrwitt I actually was going to plug this myself did a great blog post on the images in the Pixel 8 Pro camera. Thank you. And the one reason you maybe might not want to get it, which is, I don't know, you shouldn't tell anybody, because they should all go Go read it To twittv and read the post Pixel 8 Pro camera super capable camera with one imperfection One imperfection. Very good link, babe. Well done, Prrrwwitt. Thank you, it's really good. You did a lot of images, you showed a lot of what's going on and so forth. I think this is one of the best articles I've read, actually about the Pixel 8 Pro camera.
02:24:40 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So thank you, sir.
02:24:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Thanks for writing and it's on our website.
02:24:43 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Lots of fun working on that.
02:24:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We're trying to do more text because I don't know why, but we are Because you could search for it and find it, and it's one of the problems with podcasts. So a lot of times it will be as a support for a review or something else that we've done in this case for your Pixel 8 review, I presume.
02:25:02 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Well, Mr Howell did a Pixel 8 review for Tech News Weekly, but I had to throw in my two cents because like I said, it's a nice camera, but that one thing really pissed me off, if you go to twittv and scroll down a little bit.
02:25:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
you will see under Latest Post there. It is Very nice, thank you, sir. And you wrote one for Floss Weekly too, which is cool.
02:25:25 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Thank you. That show is pretty fascinating it is. I'm not the open source person like you are, but they have some really good discussions on there, really good guests, mr.
02:25:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Searles is quite fun. Doc's going to be one of the old guys doing our. You know we've decided to upgrade that old farts podcast Jeff and Doc and I are going to do on December 7 to our holiday episode of twit. So club members will get to see it on December 7. But just this, just in. Oh yeah, just you know it was a great holiday episode. We kind of did a last week last year with Steve Gibson, Paul Theriot, you and Doc and me and maybe we'll get Paul or Steve or somebody.
02:26:05 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
We'll try to get Mr Steve and Steve Steve was great. I remember this Grinch hat. And get Mr Wilkinson too. Oh, Scott Wilkinson, I'm going to try to get him to you.
02:26:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What we were thinking just between us kids is Scott could make a special appearance as Santa Claus because he's got the ho, ho, ho. He's very good at that.
02:26:21 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Two for Christmas time.
02:26:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So have you know that I'm flying back from Vienna so I can make it for that show.
02:26:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, come on. Why don't you do it from Vienna? Oh, with my crappy Chromebook, yeah good point what else did you want to mention, Ant, besides your review?
02:26:41 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I wanted to mention. A million miles away is a movie on Amazon Prime for you folks that are into space and astronauts and all that good stuff. It's about Dr Jose Hernandez. Great movie, really, really well done, heartwarming. Mike might tug at your tear ducts here and there, but I only watched that because he was on this week in space. Last week. Michael Peña.
02:27:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, not him. Jose Hernandez was.
02:27:11 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Dr Jose Hernandez, the former NASA astronaut, was on the show. Oh my God, td and I got to talk to him pre-show and do his little tech check and stuff. Man, that dude's all right, that is. That was a hell of an interview. He was born in Mishwakan, mexico, and they lived in Stockton, right around the corner, Move to Stockton became an astronaut, first migrant family to be an astronaut. That's really great, such a great story. And he's just yeah, I like the cut of his jib. Is that the phrase I can't?
02:27:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
remember the cut of his jib? Yeah, no one knows what it means, but I'm glad you like it. Don't think too hard about it. It's this week in space, number 84, hometownheroatwittv.
02:28:00 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
So make sure you all check that out.
02:28:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It was a good one, thank you. And the movie based on his life a million miles away on Amazon prime Yep, wow, that's cool.
02:28:09 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
It was really cool yeah.
02:28:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Really good. Thank you, mr Pruitt. I'll see you tomorrow. Oh boy, for our escape room, which will be, what is it? 3 PM? 3 PM, pacific 6.
02:28:20 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
PM Eastern 2200 UTC.
02:28:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You've got to be a club member. Go to twittv slash club twit If you're not yet a member.
02:28:28 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
I wonder if I should wear a helmet and elbow pads and stuff like that protection.
02:28:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You need protection Because I think Paris was right. There'll be lots of gnashing of teeth and screaming.
02:28:38 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
Like I said, I'm just nervous that because we have Mr Burke involved and y'all know Mr Burke.
02:28:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He has a very big hammer, give him tools.
02:28:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I was just going to say I think he's been talking a big game in the chat about a chainsaw arm. Oh Lord, we prepared, Sounds like a dog allowed in Really.
02:28:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, Lily's got to be part of our escape room, doesn't she?
02:29:01 - Ant Pruitt (Host)
She'll fit in the box. She'll fit into it, jeff.
02:29:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Jarvis is the director of the Townite Center for Entrepreneurial Journalism at the Craig Newmark Craig Craig, craig Newmark Newmark Graduate school of journalism at the City University of New York and was named one of the 100 most eligible bachelors in San Francisco, which I've ranked about twice Many years ago. Who would believe it? Many, many, many years ago, so long ago. Thank you, jeff.
02:29:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They even have 100 other. Do they have 102 other eligible bachelors in San Francisco at that time, or was it?
02:29:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Do you think I'm 101 or 102?
02:29:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, you know you could hit in the top 100 if there were only like you know, you make a good point.
02:29:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Paris 100 is a rather large number.
02:29:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Really Listen. I'm not going to discount the power of that image.
02:29:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think we can let it speak for itself. Jeff, were you like 99 on this list?
02:29:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
At the time there were only 100. At the time, there were only 100 straight single men in San Francisco.
02:30:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That is yeah.
02:30:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Pretty much that. Thank you, sir, thank you, mr Jarvis, and Paris Martino. Once again, welcome to. You may have deep regrets about this point.
02:30:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was just saying, you guys may regret this. No, we do not.
02:30:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But you may Thank you so much for making us part of your week. We thank you. You'll find Paris at theinformationcom. She does great coverage of Big Tech. Her signal number to 677978655. And you can call her with a big scoop. Give her a big scoop.
02:30:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Thank you, paris, we can all your company secrets.
02:30:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Thanks, guys See you in the corn maze. Thanks to all of you for joining us. We do twig this week in Google every Wednesday, 2 PM Pacific, 5 PM Eastern, 2100. Utc. You can watch us do it live at livetwittv Watch or listen. There's a live audio stream as well. If you're watching live chat, live in our Discord as a club Twitter member, or in our open to all IRC irctwittv. After the fact, on demand versions of the show available, of course, on our website, twittv slash twig. There's a YouTube channel dedicated to this week in Google, but the best way to get it, subscribe in your favorite podcast player and that way you don't have to think about it. You just download it automatically every week the minute we're done. Thank you everybody. We'll have a great time tomorrow, Join us for the escape room and we will see you next Wednesday on this Week in Google. Bye-bye.
02:31:30 - Lou Maresca (Other)
Come join us on this week in Enterprise Tech. Expert Coase and I talk about the enterprise world and we're joined by industry professionals and trailblazers like CEOs, cios, ctos, cisos every acronym role plus IT pros and marketeers. We talk about technology, software plus services, security you name it. Everything under the sun. You know what? I learn something each and every week and I bet you you will too. So definitely join us and, of course, check out the twit.tv website and click on this week in Enterprise Tech. Subscribe today.
