This Week in Google 755 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for twig this week in Google Paris. Martin Noah's here, jeff Jarvis is here. We're going to talk about so many things. Of course, we've got a big AI segment. Sarah Silverman wins some and loses some in court, mark Zuckerberg says the Quest is a better product than the Vision Pro Period and a crowd destroys a driverless car in San Francisco. What's going on, with all the anger For all that and a whole lot more coming up next on twig Podcasts you love? From people you trust. This is twig.

This is twig this week in Google, episode 755. Recorded Wednesday, february 14th 2024. Beat it for 15 minutes. This week in Google is brought to you by Melissa, the data quality experts. All data expires, in fact, as much as 25% a year.

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Get started today with 1,000 records cleaned for free at melissacom slash Twitter. That's melissacom slash Twitter. It's time for twig this week at Google, the show where we talk about everything, including Google. This week, paris Martinot is here from the information. Hello Paris, bonjour. Comment ça va.

It's very nice to see you and your giant monstera plant taking over.

0:02:34 - Paris Martineau
Slowly, slowly, slowly.

0:02:36 - Leo Laporte
It snowed, didn't it?

0:02:38 - Paris Martineau
It did Nice. I was expecting it to stay for longer, but it didn't she was. Allegedly. Many people are saying that it's stuck in New Jersey, but I'm not sure if anyone can really confirm.

0:02:49 - Jeff Jarvis
New Jersey, jeff Jarvis, I do we got about five inches, yeah, yeah, come to the suburbs, paris. Come to the suburbs, you'll get snow. Oh.

0:02:58 - Leo Laporte
I don't call it the God and state for nothing Jeff Jarvis is for the nonce, the Leonard Tape professor for journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York.

0:03:12 - Jeff Jarvis
Good Paris for doing a duet. No, I like this. It's just like TikTok. Yes, it's very good you. You may wonder why I'm holding a box cutter in my oh no, no, no, he's angry, he came out angry off windows Take that away from me, yeah, yeah. Somebody talk a little bit.

0:03:28 - Leo Laporte
No, no, I'm just going to take it out on a box, because I have a rather large box which came to my home a few days ago. What, oh, don't, oh, don't, don't use that, don't use the knife, use the. This one has two blades. It's a very confusing. I'm a lefty, which also helps.

0:03:48 - Paris Martineau
This is it looks like it has no blades from the camera, but I'm sure that there's a blade somewhere it does have, though.

0:03:54 - Leo Laporte
It has my face on it. It is a Leo Laporte approved.

0:03:58 - Paris Martineau
Oh great.

0:03:59 - Jeff Jarvis
We thought, maybe that would get it when I get arrested going through airport security with it.

0:04:04 - Leo Laporte
But it's from Leo. No, this is something we've been talking about.

0:04:08 - Jeff Jarvis
This is about more than a year 20 layers here.

0:04:10 - Leo Laporte
Is it? It's a lot to open.

0:04:12 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh yeah, this is. This is Adel retentive packaging. Here's one, lots of those.

0:04:17 - Paris Martineau
This is like lots of foam Like this is like my whole ball pit.

0:04:22 - Leo Laporte
This is the book that our friend Glenn Fleischman has been working on for gosh how long along with Martian witchery is actually Martian's. Well, it's Martian's book.

0:04:32 - Jeff Jarvis
Glenn helped him in the production Edited, produced it.

0:04:36 - Leo Laporte
It's a good thing to be because this turned out to be a rather big heavy. Oh, it's very heavy. Well, I think it migrated from one volume to two volumes. Yes, because that is it Actually. It's three, isn't it? Yeah, Holy cow, I am so excited about this. You have had it for a while, right?

0:04:58 - Jeff Jarvis
I've had it. I've got to dig in and read it because I'm just going to read it for research. But if you pull up the first volume, just start reading the first page, not that one, not this one, that's the extras.

0:05:06 - Paris Martineau
What is that that's? I forget what that is.

0:05:09 - Leo Laporte
Stuff left over on the cutting room floor. Yeah.

0:05:12 - Paris Martineau
I love a good two and a half books, it's beautiful.

0:05:16 - Leo Laporte
It's like the Encyclopedia Britannica. Remember you'd buy that in 1971 and then every year they'd give you a book with all the stuff that has changed.

0:05:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Because Paris, they kept on outdoing their Patreon numbers, so they had to come up with more things to do for a stretch.

0:05:32 - Leo Laporte
These are stretch goals and it's really beautiful book Gosh. They've done this.

0:05:36 - Jeff Jarvis
So if you go to the very first page. Yeah, I thought this is going to be geeky and nerdy as hell. It captured me immediately.

0:05:43 - Leo Laporte
No to car. See, it was plow, don't touch in.

0:05:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Huh, well, if you read it there.

0:05:51 - Leo Laporte
it'll tell you what are you finding. Oh, this was a sign in a store. Yes, Please don't touch. But what language is that? Catalan or something?

0:06:03 - Jeff Jarvis
I think it might be. So he discovers that there is. Then there's the roadside. He discovers that there's a museum nearby, and goes to it, and it starts this whole journey. Oh, the museum, and the museum it's, it's.

0:06:16 - Leo Laporte
Oh, this might be Portugal. Look at that.

0:06:20 - Paris Martineau
What a beautiful book.

0:06:21 - Leo Laporte
I'll never forget going to see you for the first time, jeff, at CUNY, and all the typewriters in the lobby.

0:06:28 - Jeff Jarvis
That's right Journalists, right we had a big and I have my line of type keyboard in the garage right now, so I don't know if they're still selling these.

0:06:36 - Leo Laporte
I think the last few left. Yeah, glenn was on. We're not going to print it. He said that they printed extra in case of, you know, returns and damage and so they have extras. So shift dot happens. If it happens that you can get it, can't wait to dig it. I am. It's such a beautiful production. Well done, glenn, well done.

0:06:57 - Jeff Jarvis
And well done.

0:06:58 - Leo Laporte
March. Yeah, and March. You know, I know I got to remember to that's March's book. I'm just, I'm just showed up at the end to take it very much a joint operation, I think. By the end, yeah, they went to the printers together and everything. All right. We are now in the Gemini era, as predicted. Don't call it Bard anymore.

0:07:21 - Jeff Jarvis
And it's Gemini. Ultra right, the Gemini is now out. Is that the one we've been waiting for?

0:07:28 - Leo Laporte
No, no, we've been waiting for more, more Gemini than ever. I don't know. You know I have it on because I subscribe to Perplexity, which gives you a choice of models. One of them is Gemini. Oh really, yeah.

0:07:43 - Paris Martineau
Oh, yeah, interesting.

0:07:45 - Leo Laporte
So where do I?

0:07:47 - Paris Martineau
Which one do you use typically?

0:07:50 - Leo Laporte
I think chat GBT-4 is kind of the best, to be honest.

0:07:53 - Jeff Jarvis
But have you tried?

0:07:54 - Leo Laporte
Let me go to my settings and. I'll show you the new one, though. No, in fact, let me try, let's do it. That's why I'm pulling it up. Ai model is default, optimized, professed by Perplexity, experimental.

0:08:07 - Jeff Jarvis
It's Gemini Pro Leo that's behind.

0:08:10 - Leo Laporte
Oh, it's Gemini Pro not Ultra. Well, let's just. Shall I just play with it a little? No, I don't care.

0:08:16 - Jeff Jarvis
No, go to Ultra, go to Ultra.

0:08:18 - Leo Laporte
Well, can I do that? On the end it's free, not here.

0:08:21 - Jeff Jarvis
You've got to go to.

0:08:21 - Leo Laporte
You've got to go to, you've got to go to Gemini, ultrageminigoogleio or something like that, do what it is? No, I don't know. Try Ultra 1.0.

0:08:34 - Jeff Jarvis
I can tell you from the rundown for the AI show Geminigooglecom. Oh, I have to pay for it.

0:08:42 - Leo Laporte
Well, not too much free. No, ultra, oh, but you get two months free. Okay, I'm already paying 20 bucks a month. It's funny that they've settled on this price for both chat, gpt from Open AI and for Perplexity. Actually, I'm actually I should co-pile. It's 30 bucks a month if you're using it in the pro version, but I have a Microsoft 365 account, so I think I have the basic version. Oh, I'm wrong.

0:09:08 - Jeff Jarvis
I have way too much AI. They're free. They're free. It looks like it's free, free is just pro. It's the one I'm using. It's just pro. Yeah, yeah. So you've got to pay now for Gemini Advanced.

0:09:16 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, okay, do you have it? No, no, you get access to Gemini in Gmail Docs.

0:09:22 - Paris Martineau
I'm on a void, Leo. He's deorbitating.

0:09:27 - Leo Laporte
He's deorbitating, I'm deorbitating against my will.

0:09:30 - Paris Martineau
I'm deorbitating. They don't have a price subscription. I'm deorbitating.

0:09:33 - Leo Laporte
Two terabytes storage and other benefits from Google One. Oh, wait a minute. I have Google One, but it doesn't know. Oh, you will. This is a future yule, I guess, available soon from Google One. So if you have Google One, I guess you'll get this at some point too.

0:09:56 - Jeff Jarvis
But which pro or advanced.

0:09:58 - Leo Laporte
It looks like Ultra Advanced. Oh really yeah. Whatever their collage is today, it's unclear.

0:10:03 - Speaker 6
Quick question. This is Benito, by the way, Hi.

0:10:05 - Leo Laporte
Benito.

0:10:06 - Speaker 6
Does anybody know about Google Ultra, that old story about that IT Is that based? Is this a play on that? Say it again.

0:10:14 - Leo Laporte
Has anybody heard of that? It was a 4K story. You mean MK Ultra you're talking about.

0:10:17 - Speaker 6
No, no, no, Google Ultra. I don't know if you've ever, anyone's ever, heard this story.

0:10:21 - Leo Laporte
I've never heard of Google Ultra.

0:10:23 - Paris Martineau
No, let me ask Gemini you think you could have a Google Ultron?

0:10:27 - Speaker 6
No, the one about the.

0:10:28 - Paris Martineau
According to Reddit, out of the loop. It was the name for a Gemini Chrome that an IT guy on 4chan came up with.

0:10:39 - Speaker 6
Yes, this is a hilarious story, if anybody's interested.

0:10:41 - Paris Martineau
An IT guy uploads Google Ultron same as Chrome on someone's computer to get him off his back and then it spreads around the office. Oh, this is like a copypasta. Where somebody's asking for the newest version of Google, the IT guy makes a fake one Google Ultron.

0:10:56 - Speaker 6
It's a whole story actually. There's like a whole thread of a story of this thing and it's. I think this is like a play on that.

0:11:04 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's funny. Maybe I was thinking MK Ultra. You know what MK Ultra is right?

0:11:09 - Paris Martineau
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:11:10 - Leo Laporte
That's what I was thought. It's the illegal human experimentation program from the CIA when they put gave people LSD. It actually I think it was. Why LSD became popular in the 60s is because people like Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert got exposed to it through MK Ultra and they say this stuff is really good stuff and brought it back to Harvard. According to the church committee in 1976, the MK Delta program drugs were used primarily as an aid to interrogations, but MK Ultra materials are also used for harassment, discrediting or disabling people. Wow, the CIA. Oh, this is a good one. I don't think Google's referring to this. The CIA was interested in bird migration patterns for chemical and biological warfare research. They wanted to see if they could use birds to distribute LSD.

0:12:10 - Paris Martineau
Okay, I love it when the birds come with LSD.

0:12:13 - Leo Laporte
At the invitation of Stanford psychology graduate student Vic Lovell and acquaintance of Richard Alpert, Alan Ginsburg and Ken Keesey volunteered to take part in a CIA finance study MK Ultra at Menlo Park's Veterans Hospital.

0:12:26 - Jeff Jarvis
This alone is a drug induced hallucination we're going through right now. I feel like it is.

0:12:32 - Leo Laporte
Hallucination is, it turns out, is actually a very good word for barred ultra. Well, we're already in the AI segment. Might as well do it. Yep, all right, nvidia is in a kind of a convenient calling for sovereign AI. This is Benson Jensen. Wong, the CEO says every night you know, I don't think he's wrong here he was talking in a discussion with the UAE's minister of AI. Now see, there you go. The United Arab Emirates is really on top of things. They have a minister of AI, omar. Next career Leo, you could be the minister.

0:13:09 - Paris Martineau
I would like to be the minister of AI going to the UAE, where people really understand.

0:13:14 - Leo Laporte
Yes, they appreciate what we're up to. Omar, it's I, is it all? Alma or AI Olamma? You know it could be either great question during the World Government Summit in Dubai on Monday, jensen Wong, the CEO of Nvidia, said every country should control its own AI infrastructure so it can protect its culture. He calls it sovereign AI. That's not necessarily a bad idea, I mean. Otherwise it becomes kind of another one of those US imposed.

0:13:47 - Jeff Jarvis
What does?

0:13:47 - Leo Laporte
it mean to control the infrastructure? I don't know.

0:13:50 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, language is one right, so yeah, but you don't need to control the infrastructure for that. You can have your own models. You run on your own machines.

0:13:56 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's kind of what he means. You should have your own models. But the reason I said itself serving is because Nvidia wants to sell it. Video is used to every country in the world around the world. Yeah, so you really do need your own infrastructure, but, but, but I don't think Jensen's wrong. He says AI codifies your culture, your society's intelligence, your common sense, your history. You own your own data. We completely subscribed to that vision, says AI Olamma. That's why the UAE is moving aggressively on creating large language models and mobilizing compute Interesting.

0:14:36 - Paris Martineau
I know it seems like they went on to say the first thing I would do, of course, is codify the language, the data of your culture into your own large language model. That's what he would do if he was the leader of a developing nation.

0:14:51 - Speaker 2
But I agree with that, I mean, I guess that's something you?

0:14:53 - Paris Martineau
I don't think that if I was the leader of a developing nation, my first priority would not be to codify the language and data of my culture into a language. I think my first priorities would be leading the developing nation. Well, that's true.

0:15:08 - Jeff Jarvis
And just you know, let's, let's, let's not just say developing, so on on the inside and you are.

0:15:13 - Leo Laporte
Uae is far from a developing nation. They're. They have a lot of money. That's Dubai which doesn't have any oil, ironically, but their sister Emirate also has quite a bit of oil. In Abu Dhabi they have money.

0:15:27 - Jeff Jarvis
So Paris, norway is doing just that. Jason and I interviewed Sven Sturmer, who is the chief data officer at Shipstead, and the country is gang is. Is that is ganging together, is joining together because they believe it's a national good to have a Norwegian language. Yeah, I model here, and so they're contributing their content to the training process rather than fighting you hear.

that's interesting and they'll figure out what the what the commercial model is later, but right now they're trying to show how worse and they're even so. All the almost all the digital publishers, as far as I know, are putting their stuff in and the country is even looking and saying if the books 90% of the books in Norway have been digitized, if, if that's useful to make a better model, if you can prove that in your research, then the government might consider paying for that.

0:16:19 - Leo Laporte
Did we not learn with the Internet? I mean, in the first decades of the Internet, it quickly became an English language thing. I mean now, now it's become much more international. I don't think that's a problem anymore. But I think maybe that's the thing that they're worried about is you don't want you know. It's funny because the movie industry came out of Hollywood and very much spread American culture. But now there's Bollywood, there's there's movie industries all over the world reflecting their own cultures accurately. International movies are a big deal. So maybe maybe it's nothing to worry about, maybe that maybe the time will come when AI will just be an international thing.

0:17:00 - Jeff Jarvis
So the last column I wrote at Time, inc, when I was the editor of Entertainment Weekly, for that brief moment in time, I praised Canada's national content model.

0:17:11 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, the CRTC says you have to have a certain amount of Canadian content in all your.

0:17:16 - Jeff Jarvis
The executives at Time Inc went ballistic on me how could. I say that Working at Time Warner. You fool, you little schmuck, and the column didn't run well. That's the last time I tried to write a column there, Wow you're resisting our efforts to co-opt Canadian culture World domination.

0:17:35 - Leo Laporte
So yeah, I mean of course it's a little self-serving for Jensen, but at the same time also I think it's a good point to be made. I mean, ai shouldn't be American, right or European. It should be, it should reflect the cultures it's in.

0:17:49 - Jeff Jarvis
This is. This is part of the open source debate as well, because if you have open source, if you, if Europe outlaws open source models, it's going to be regulatory capture of the Indian Right, and so you can build on top of things. There's a French open source model. Is what is what Shipston is using.

0:18:04 - Leo Laporte
Oh, interesting.

0:18:06 - Jeff Jarvis
And Nvidia now has has Sam Altman breathing down their next getting $7 trillion to build a competitor have you seen that?

0:18:18 - Leo Laporte
Wow, no, that's interesting.

0:18:19 - Jeff Jarvis
So all but all that is out there trying to raise $7 trillion, is that the world coin thing?

0:18:26 - Leo Laporte
Just some walking you know walking around money.

0:18:30 - Paris Martineau
Just chips.

0:18:31 - Jeff Jarvis
You know I'd invest a trillion. But it's not that I'm unemployed. I kind of need my last trillion.

0:18:35 - Paris Martineau
So that's true.

0:18:36 - Leo Laporte
I mean you've got to be conservative with your trillion here, a trillion there and it's up. Uh. Sarah Silverman uh well, it's a mixed bag. She both uh a lot of the uh. Her contensions in her lawsuit against uh open AI were thrown out, all but one, but the most important one, the copyright part was, was upheld. The judge said yeah, you can, you can go forward.

0:19:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Which open up open. Ai won this in the sense that they didn't ask for that primary claim to be dismissed. They asked for all the others to be dismissed. Uh, judge agreed and dismissed all the others, but I think that they want the court to start ruling on whether AI can learn.

0:19:15 - Leo Laporte
Read and learn, uh, judge Martinez, all the way in uh throughout portions of the complaint from a Silverman's legal team on Monday, including negligence, unjust enrichment, dmca violations and accusations of very vicarious infringement I'm big into that myself, but okay Uh. But the the primary claim, which is that open AI directly infringed on copyrighted material by training LLMs on millions of books, including Silverman's own, uh, without permission. I actually, yeah, you want the court to resolve this, don't you? You don't want this just to be floating around while I say, yeah, you do.

0:19:51 - Jeff Jarvis
The interesting thing to me, though, is the question. To me, I think that if you, the question is how you acquire the book. If you acquire the book illegally, that's the act that you go after you stole. You stole a copy of the book, um, but if you acquired it, or a newspaper subscription, or a magazine subscription, or whatever, you should have the right to use it to train your model.

0:20:12 - Leo Laporte
We're having a very brisk discussion right now in our um uh Twitter, uh forums, the Twitter community forums, about this very subject, because Kathy Gellis, who was on Twitter on a Sunday, uh talked again as she had on our show about, uh, the right to read and the First Amendment right to read, and a number of people in our forums have said, well, but a machine is not the same as a human.

0:20:39 - Paris Martineau
I think that's a really good point.

0:20:41 - Jeff Jarvis
But the company that owns it should have the same right.

0:20:44 - Paris Martineau
That's right I got, I got I think that that is the sort of logic that gets us corporations have a right to, you know, uh, religious, uh matters. That gets us the hobby lobby decision. I don't think that we're citizens united codifying the person hood of corporations in this way.

0:21:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, okay, paris, good point. And, and, and and, says the United, but does the New York Times and the journalists on it? Does the information have a right to read others, work, learn from it, utilize the information. The.

0:21:17 - Paris Martineau
LLC no.

0:21:19 - Speaker 2
I think the people who work for it yes, well, but I think that there's a difference, which is, you know, open AI.

0:21:26 - Paris Martineau
The company does not have the same right that, uh, you know Joe Schmo, a person who works at open AI, does.

0:21:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, but Paris, if, if, if you screw up here and you go um filtering um business insiders content cause it's so valuable, uh, they're not going to sue you, they're going to sue the company, they're going to sue the informationcom.

0:21:53 - Paris Martineau
I would definitely be a plaintiff in that lawsuit, I feel like.

0:21:56 - Jeff Jarvis
but you're not worth it. Paris, you don't have, you don't have.

0:21:58 - Leo Laporte
Truly, this is such a hard one because I. I do also. I respect content creators. I are one. Uh, I'm not a writer, obviously, but I are a content creator.

0:22:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Um and so.

0:22:09 - Leo Laporte
I respect the work that you do, paris and uh and and Jeff, the work that you do, um, and I understand why artists would be upset that, but their, their work isn't getting stolen wholesale. I mean, that was one of the things that New York times asserted, which is well, you could read the times in chat GPT, but I don't think any serious person can't think that's true. If that were, that would be another matter. That would be an issue. That would be an issue, I agree. But there's there's no loss of revenue to the New York times because chat GPT is ingested.

0:22:44 - Jeff Jarvis
It's content here's here If, if, if they, if they managed to get around something and got the information's content without paying the information for a subscription. Um, yeah, but that's one subscription but that's. All you need to do is a subscription, yeah.

0:23:02 - Leo Laporte
So I use uh, the digital world. The browser company of New York ARC has, you know, a browser for Mac, uh uh, but they also have a uh browser on the iPhone. That's. That's kind of an interesting browser. It's an AI assisted browser. Give me Paris what's a recent information exclusive? Maybe it's one you worked on that I could query it about, Cause.

0:23:26 - Paris Martineau
Let's see if I can ask it about something exclusive to the Try and let's look on our website right now.

0:23:34 - Leo Laporte
You guys have a lot of exclusives because you have such great reporters. Reporters, I guess, yeah, the one that's open.

0:23:40 - Paris Martineau
Ai develops web search product and challenge to Google so you can look up open.

0:23:45 - Leo Laporte
AI develops web search project in challenge to Google. Now what I've? Oops, I did it wrong. Let me do this. Let me do it again, Cause that's a plain old search, but what you're most likely want to do, let's do a new one. I have the iPhone app. That's what I'm using. I don't know. I am. Oh, it's now doing perplexity. No, I don't want to.

0:24:12 - Paris Martineau
Oh no, you're opening up perplexity. Yeah, I want ARC.

0:24:15 - Leo Laporte
So let me go back to ARC and and and query it so you can use it as a browser. But what I want to do is a query what was it again?

0:24:23 - Paris Martineau
How about open AI web search app?

0:24:26 - Leo Laporte
Open AI web search app. Now it I can. I can search it like a normal Google search, but there's also this browse for me button, and this is the thing that's somewhat controversial lately, cause what it does is see this. It says reading six web pages, the information and others, and and then this is the summary not going, I don't go to those sites. I think this is yeah from the information. It even says that yeah.

0:24:53 - Paris Martineau
So there's a summary of stuff from that exclusive Now it does say from the information there is directly lifted from the information.

0:25:01 - Leo Laporte
Open AI has been developing a web search product to compete with Google.

0:25:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Call up the call up the information report. Oh, look at this.

0:25:09 - Leo Laporte
If I, if I expand it there it is, it's a sentence. So this is is this a snippet, or is this more, or is this worse than a snippet?

Well, there is no definition of a snippet or fair use but what this feels like to me, and what a lot of people are complaining about, is what they've created is a tool that will keep people from going to the information that I will. I will get what I wanted from this. It's a not, it's basically a knowledge graph, a Google style knowledge graph. I use it all the time and, I have to admit, I very rarely have to go to the website.

0:25:40 - Jeff Jarvis
So, paris, what were you going to be if you weren't going to be a journalist? It's a great question Because maybe they want to think about that backup now yeah.

0:25:47 - Paris Martineau
They don't want to go to law school after all.

0:25:50 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. You don't want to go to law school?

0:25:52 - Speaker 2
I don't know any happy lawyers. I don't want to go to law school.

0:25:55 - Leo Laporte
The happiest layers I know are all former lawyers.

0:25:58 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, it's an interesting, they can argue with you about anything, but they don't have to suffer.

0:26:06 - Leo Laporte
I feel like I, really, I really. I feel like I have a foot in both camps. I I, as a creator, I understand how creators might they're hurt. I don't know if it hurts them economically, maybe it does this. This arch search definitely would hurt the information. If I were Jessica or or Paris, I might be upset about that. On the other hand, as you know, as an AI accelerist and may accelerationist and maybe an AI self, I think AI should be trained on every possible bit of information in the human experience, because it'll make them useful. I don't know what the answer is yeah, I mean?

0:26:45 - Paris Martineau
what are we going to do if corporations aren't able to make incredibly useful tools for free?

0:26:51 - Leo Laporte
Well, corey Doctorow would say, he's slurping up the labor of others.

0:26:55 - Paris Martineau
It's really. It's really.

0:26:57 - Leo Laporte
Corey Doctorow would say that's already been done. Paris, the corporation the information, has slurped up your information and paid you a pittance for it, or some agreed upon some, but really that copyrights are a fight between businesses, the businesses that own the copyrights and the other businesses that want to use the copyrighted material. So he doesn't he. He makes himself a noncombatant in this, even as a a writer, because he says that copyright doesn't protect us. Copyright protects the businesses that own the copyrights, which is the history of copyright, absolutely the very, very beginning.

0:27:31 - Jeff Jarvis
So I think I might have mentioned last week I've been commissioned by the California Chamber to write a paper about CJPA, the California Journalism Protection Act, and so I've been digging into the history here. And the history of radio and and newspapers is just fascinating because radio at first thought, oh, it's cute. And then they realized, oh, helps, and so they, they passed all kinds of resolutions I love this one Whereas this has a tendency to destroy the surprise value of the news, divert the attention of readers and induce less public interest in the news content of newspapers. And they went completely bat shirt on radio and they tried to stop radio from having any news. They tried to hold them up as to whether or not newspapers would print radio listings until readers complained they. They basically pushed for the regulation of radio and the slice out of the First Amendment, that is, the FCC.

Newspapers did all of that. Then newspapers fought television and then newspapers fought the R box getting to do information services and now newspapers fight the internet. The difference in part was what happened. There was there was this built more agreement that had all these problems on radio, where they couldn't do all this stuff, it went away because 200 of the 700 radio stations at the time were owned by newspapers. So once newspapers had a financial interest in the success of radio, then all the complaints about radio just disappeared.

0:28:59 - Leo Laporte
As a historian of media, Jeff, going back to this guy named Gutenberg. It doesn't seem to be always the case that the old media fights the new media, but it eventually gives in and that that's human progress, that, ultimately, whatever the new thing is is the next thing. It's gotta it's gotta be allowed to succeed.

0:29:21 - Jeff Jarvis
Even if we don't give it the value judgment of progress.

0:29:24 - Leo Laporte
yes, I mean, yeah, it's inevitable, it's an inevitability. Yeah, I think it, I think it is.

0:29:31 - Paris Martineau
But I mean on the side for this is I think it would be inaccurate to call chat, gpt and large language models new media, in the sense these are tools that are being used by a select, you know, portion of the population, but it's different than a new media format and a media industry that employs people and is adding value. I mean, leo, you're part of this era of media. Right now, what we're doing is what Jeff was describing with like radio. We are commentating on established news stories and things like that. That is a value add in some way.

0:30:15 - Jeff Jarvis
That's not what newspapers thought. They said that was filtering. They in fact, in the agreement they require that commentators were not allowed to talk about news until 12 hours after the current. Just that reason.

0:30:26 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, we're doing what radio did, exactly what radio did which is so Paris.

0:30:31 - Jeff Jarvis
The question is yeah, is there a value add here? We're not reporting? You report, I don't report anymore, not much, but you actually report, and that's what hurts, because that's what requires the most investment, right?

0:30:44 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, but I mean, I think that it's fair to say that radio and commentary has a natural value add, regardless of the complaints of the era, in a way that has yet to be borne out, when we're talking about a large language model that is synthesizing a giant corpus and regurgitating information.

0:31:04 - Leo Laporte
You don't think LLMs have value, have a practical, useful value.

0:31:09 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think they have a useful value in terms of the like what we were talking about with your like Emacs thing, but I'm not sure that it is the like same added and much that it's additive value. I think, that they're really good data research. We're not adding value.

0:31:24 - Leo Laporte
Are we? I mean we are, I don't know.

0:31:26 - Paris Martineau
I think we are additive value. We had context.

0:31:30 - Leo Laporte
We tried to explain it, but yeah, but we're just basically a chat show.

0:31:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, but the the open, the LLMs will summarize along. Give you the TLDR so that you can get more substance out of it. You can query it and ask questions and understand it better. It can compare that to other. I'm devil's advocate in here. It could compare one piece to others and find where there are similarities. It can translate it into other languages.

0:31:56 - Leo Laporte
Would we have a thought experiment? If we didn't have value, would we have the right to exist? Paris.

0:32:02 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I'm not sure that anything has the right to exist, I mean if we were just

0:32:07 - Leo Laporte
and I think you can make the case that we are view, if we were just kind of rehashing the news and chewing on it and spitting it out, and if we were just doing that, not not really adding anything of value, would we have? Would we have a right to exist? We have a right to do that.

0:32:26 - Speaker 6
Yes but no one would watch it, yeah, but no one would watch it.

0:32:30 - Paris Martineau
And also the thing is we're not asking for every single company and content producer in the world to give us their content for free because of our right to exist.

0:32:42 - Leo Laporte
No, we are asking, though we are I mean I'm paying them sometimes Is the selection alone.

0:32:51 - Jeff Jarvis
It really killed me.

0:32:52 - Leo Laporte
I just had to buy a financial time subscription and just pissed the hell out of me. But we use a lot of their stories, so yeah, but that's the thing is, I'm paying for one subscription and then rehashing all that information that I pay the information for out to now there's a couple of questions Do we cut, do we help the information or hurt the information by doing that? But you know, I justify it in my own mind by saying, well, I always credit Paris and the information, I always credit the source, so hoping that I'm bringing some value to them. Right, that somebody will go then chase it down. I doubt that brings much value. But what if I really? I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't make it my goal when I get up in the morning. I've got to make sure I've had value to the content we cover on the show today.

0:33:37 - Paris Martineau
I think you do want to make a good show that is in some way meaningful or valuable to listeners.

0:33:44 - Leo Laporte
What if I were Will Arnett and we just told jokes about it all the time?

0:33:48 - Paris Martineau
But you're not, will Arnett, you very specifically laughed at Will Arnett. I wish I had Will.

0:33:53 - Jeff Jarvis
Arnett's money.

0:33:55 - Leo Laporte
I mean, there are plenty of podcasts that the news of the week is just grist for the comedy mill. Well, there's plenty of comedians that do that. I guess the value they add, though, is that you're laughing.

0:34:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Is entertainment, it's entertainment Is, context Is perspective.

0:34:13 - Leo Laporte
So now we can have a debate over does does it what we do here, either entertaining or informative? It has to be one right, we're not tasteful.

0:34:21 - Paris Martineau
Hey, sound off in the comments. Are you entertained and or informed?

0:34:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, that was the argument about radio. The newspaper. People wanted to restrict radio to entertainment. They argued that radio was not an appropriate mechanism for people to learn things, because we are eye oriented, not ear. Oh, isn't that interesting? Your things are stupid, they said. That's a classic. I think it's smart. Honest to God that's a classic incumbent argument. Right, we're the only way that you could do that.

0:34:47 - Leo Laporte
See, that's what I wonder really, that's what I'm asking you, as a historian, is isn't this always the argument of the incumbent that, oh, they can't possibly do it as well as we do? We need you, you need to keep us alive, we need to continue. I mean, I would hate it.

0:35:01 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't think there's a difference here is that you know, authors found new markets and figured things out with print. Publishers own radio stations. Radio stations were in the same companies as television. Publishers ended up working with the R box. With the internet, they got left out. Now they tried.

I was part of the beginnings of the New Century Network, which was going to have a structure for all newspapers in the country to work together. A single sign in shared content, shared advertising sales would have been wonderful. What happened when Kleiner Perkins wanted to invest in it? Half the publishers said we're not selling, we're too valuable for those Silicon Valley people. So they lost. Chicago Tribune invested a fortune in AOL and made a fortune. If AOL were still alive, chicago Tribune would have a very different attitude about A its arrival and B the internet. If publishers had had a take of the internet, if they'd been part of it, if they'd figured that out, if the internet company has been smart enough to involve them in some way, it wouldn't be a war. That's what happened with radio and TV, but they're left out.

0:36:12 - Leo Laporte
So Anthony Elson says well, that's okay, you're talking about how the training is applied, but what about the training itself? I mean, and this is what Kathy Gellis is always saying, leo, you have the right to read a newspaper and then to come on the air and talk about it. Do you have the right to? You have a First Amendment right to do that. I guess you could say well, machines don't have First Amendment rights. But a machine is just an expression of a human or a company. It's a machine.

0:36:45 - Jeff Jarvis
By itself has no rights, but it's a broadcast tower has no rights. Right, it's a radio company does have rights Paris.

0:36:53 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think what I'm talking about when it comes to the rights is you are kind of predicating the arguments we often make on the show about AI. Your argument seems to be predicated in the fact that AI quote unquote has a right to read and consume as much content as possible so that it can be as smart and well trained as it possibly can, and I'm not sure that it does have an innate right to that when the content being consumed is created by and owned by others.

0:37:31 - Leo Laporte
Okay, I won't say right, I think it has to be more nuanced conversation.

Yeah, I won't say right, you're right, that's probably not true, it's not a right, but it is in society's interest. I would say, and that's the whole point of copyright and patent and all that stuff is that ultimately or so they say Well, the founders, when they created this concept, the idea was person should be able to benefit from their creation but ultimately belongs to everyone, and everyone should be allowed to use it and build upon it. And that's the whole point of copyright is not to keep it not. I think we make a mistake when we say the point of copyright is to make sure that the creator gets, gets money. It's not, it's to make sure that society gets access to it at some point.

0:38:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, actually, with the, the, your your right. There was a belief when statute of and copyright came in 1710, there was an argument at the time that authors had a natural right to their work. This is a John Locke view out of the, out of the sweat of their brow, the fruit of their labor, that it was perpetual. So it comes, copyright. And, as I said before, copyright was not invented for the authors, it was invented for the publishers so that they could then in turn resell. They could buy and resell this property. But then the publishers tried to say, ah, we bought the natural right, so our copyright should now last in perpetuity, forever. And the house of Lord said no, no, no, no, no, guys, it ends when the statute says it ends. So actually, copyright was not a granting of rights, it was a shrinking, exactly.

0:39:00 - Leo Laporte
It was to say society should have access to that term creation. Because for the good of society and that's exactly the argument I'm making for AI is this is because there'll be a societal benefit to AI ingesting all that content. Speaking of John Locke, I'm tempted. I'm tempted to make his pancakes. Did you say we don't add value? This is a connection no AI would ever make.

This is from a rare cookingcom. Apparently, this is John Locke's recipe for pancakes. Come up with this. Apparently, in the Bodleian library there is a large collection of Locke's works, including this page, his recipe for pancakes. Now, well, how are they? Apparently, they're quite good. The person who writes this article, let me give them full credit, because Marissa, nicosia and Nicosia at rare cookingcom cooking in the archives, look at, these are the pancakes. Now, there's one thing that's a little weird about this. Okay, take, take a three quarters of a pint of sweet cream, a quarter of a pound of flour, four eggs. But then Locke crosses out the four eggs, puts in seven and adds leave, leave out. Well, basically, take the yolks out out of three, just whites of four and the full eggs of seven of three more, and then beat them very well, he says, for 15 minutes, put in the fire Nothing else to do.

0:40:40 - Jeff Jarvis
I got to have a phone to look at right now. That is a different time.

0:40:42 - Leo Laporte
I might as well, beat the eggs. This comes from the 18th century, right? Actually the 19th, I mean 17th century. The recipes are dated 1675 to 1694. So you beat it for 15 minutes at that. In those days they had lots of time.

0:40:56 - Paris Martineau
There were no movies there was no time to beat pancakes.

0:41:00 - Leo Laporte
Stand there.

0:41:01 - Jeff Jarvis
What better thing could you do with your time? Okay?

0:41:04 - Leo Laporte
then you add, then you add the flour, you put in six spoonfuls of cream, beat it a little, it's probably only 10 minutes, right. And then you take new sweet butter. I love that. Half a pound, half a pound, half a pound, we've only got. We've only got a quarter of a pound of flour. We've got a half a pound of butter. You melt it. Is he right? He's right.

0:41:28 - Paris Martineau
I think he is right.

0:41:29 - Leo Laporte
Much more butter than flour, the skim off the top of the melted flour. So you're basically clarifying it. You power in all the clear by degrees, beating it all the time. Then put in the rest of your cream, beat it well. Now this is the thing where it goes a little weird. Okay, you've got your batter, half a grated nutmeg and, by the way, nutmeg was really expensive in these days. It had to come all the way from nutmeg. John Locke was privileged, he was very privileged and a little orange flower water. Good luck getting orange flower water. Fry it without butter, of course, because you have half a pound of butter in the batter, but the but Marisik McCookt it and they and they look quite good. They make 10, eight inch pancakes and she says these look delicious. Yeah, that's a lot of nutmeg, um, but you know, apparently it's okay. She says these pancakes make for a decadent breakfast.

0:42:30 - Speaker 6
No syrup mentioned.

0:42:31 - Leo Laporte
No, they, uh, oh, I think that uh, marissa did a drizzle of honey on top, but they don't.

0:42:38 - Paris Martineau
but John, it's unknown, she by the way she ate it, while reading preferences are unknown.

0:42:43 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, she she, she read it while reading two treatises of government, so she had the full Locke experience.

0:42:51 - Jeff Jarvis
That's probably why the nutmeg was there, because it wasn't sweetened.

0:42:54 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah Is, and nutmeg has a kind of a sweet. I put nutmeg in a lot of strange things. My, my spaghetti sauce has a little nutmeg in it. My mashed potatoes, yeah, not much. You can't taste it, but there's a. It adds to some.

0:43:06 - Paris Martineau
Why do you put it in there If you can't taste it? Cause only he knows, that's true, it's just uh, it's a secret between you and the but you don't know.

0:43:15 - Leo Laporte
You're eating nutmeg. You can't taste something.

0:43:18 - Paris Martineau
Just the you like the idea of nutmeg.

0:43:20 - Leo Laporte
You can take. It's a subtle, you know I always wanted to know that Bayleaves. You know you always have to put Bayleaves in your stews and soups and it's like do you, does it really change the flavor or not?

0:43:31 - Paris Martineau
But the thing is, most people's Bayleaves have been sitting in their cabinet for like 18 years and are adding nothing.

0:43:37 - Leo Laporte
If you've got a fresh, bay leaf that's going to add some stuff and not California, though we don't make good Bayleaves, turkish Right, am I wrong? Am I wrong? All right, we're going to take a break. That was how I got the change to subjects is John Locke's pan.

0:43:52 - Jeff Jarvis
That was good.

0:43:52 - Paris Martineau
That was very clever. An AI couldn't come on, don't?

0:43:55 - Leo Laporte
tell me, I don't have value.

0:43:58 - Jeff Jarvis
That was a hallucination to mock them all yeah.

0:44:01 - Leo Laporte
Well, it was just serendipitous. You happen to mention John Locke, and I happened to have his pancake recipe to hand. Our show today, brought to you by Miro. Oh, this is a tool you will want to have to hand. It's an incredible visual place that brings all your work together, all your innovations, all your ideas, all your thoughts, no matter where you're located, no matter where your team is, no matter what time zone they're in. Miro is as wide open as your mind. It can be anything you wanted to, but they also have what they call capability bundles six whole capability bundles that are for specific areas like product development, workflow or content visualization, all powered by Miro AI, and they use AI very nicely, whether it's to generate new ideas or to take the information on your Miro boards and summarize them.

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Miro has a new feature that's great for avoiding meetings. You want to make a comment or a suggestion or add some input to a board? They've got a video recording feature they call Talk Track. You can record your thoughts, leave them on the board, don't schedule another meeting. You can all do this with your team, so they're all on the same page. It's really great. In fact, they're giving you three boards for free to start working better at Mirocom slash podcast. So go try it for yourself. Your first three boards free. Mirocom slash podcast, mirocom slash podcast. All right, john Locke's Pancakes.

0:46:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Miro Suspense will be wondering where is Leo going to go next? Where in the world?

0:46:10 - Leo Laporte
How about the rise? According to the Verge, the unsettling scourge, or is it scourge? How do you say it? Scourge, scourge, scourge, scourge, scourge, Scourge, it's that thing. You beat yourself with A scourge of obituary spam. So somebody who's worked in a newspaper, jeff can fill us in on this, but I do believe there's a person responsible for obituaries.

0:46:36 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, Well, yes Well. Not only that, it's a huge revenue source for newspapers.

0:46:43 - Leo Laporte
Why People sell ads against obituaries.

0:46:46 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh the obituaries. They have hardly any editorial free obituaries. They're mostly paid and I see the funeral home gets a cut. It costs hundreds of dollars to put it in but it's not. People know that Uncle Joe died and they come to the viewing. And when the Star Ledger in New Jersey the company I used to work for was at fights with the Newark News I think it was the Star Ledger was going to die. Old Sign Newhouse said I'm going to kill it. Young Donald Newhouse's son said pop, give me a chance, I'm going to save it. And he saved it by convincing all the funeral homes to run their obits in the Star Ledger. The Star Ledger lived and there was an obit for the competition. Wow, to this day there's huge business still in obits.

0:47:31 - Leo Laporte
And there is apparently somebody who goes around collecting information, because I was reading an obituary the other day I think it was in the New York Times where it talked about the person at deceased saying in an interview 10 years ago for his obituary he told us, oh yeah, the. Times does that.

0:47:50 - Jeff Jarvis
The Times does that.

0:47:51 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, the Times has a whole team dedicated to it.

0:47:53 - Leo Laporte
That was so bizarre. Did they call you up and say, hey, you look you're going to die. We'd like to get it straight, get the story straight. Can you do like that, yeah?

0:48:05 - Jeff Jarvis
I would you get to say yeah right?

0:48:08 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I guess, so I guess I'd be honored.

0:48:10 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I assume I don't know what person you're referring to in this example but they have reporters who their job is to pre-write obituaries for famous people or notable figures, and part of that involves doing an interview process and actual reporting for the obituary. If it's a high profile enough subject and that's, and then they kind of sit on that information till it becomes necessary. But this is how you end up getting situations where an obituary is written and bylined by a reporter that died, like 10 years ago.

0:48:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah right. Or the fact that person dies and immediately they've got 40 inches of type. They're called HFR or hold for release and you see it happen occasionally where it will accidentally go into go into print. Wow, when Princess die and Prince Charles married, it was our closing day of People Magazine and I had to write a hold for release obit for them, in case the Irish Republican army had attacked the wedding. Holy cow, and we had different pages made up ready because it was press day, in case that it happened because that had just happened to Lord Mountbatten, so they had to be prepared for that and my editor in chief was Irish, so she said something's going to happen, wow.

0:49:26 - Speaker 6
So they still I don't know if they still do this for actors and stuff they have pre-made obituaries.

0:49:30 - Leo Laporte
It's already. That's why they can get it up so fast. Well, now same for TV. Now you can do an.

AI version, I guess because it's lucrative right, I don't know. Ai obituaries writes me a satto in the in the verge litter search results, turning even private individuals into click bait, and she leads with hysterical with a story of a couple, Brian Vestog and Beth Mazer, who, whose friends were devastated to learn that the couple had suddenly died. Now Beth had passed away, but the AI assumed that he did too and announced that he was gone as well. A little weird they passed away in the same day. Brian Vastag says that the obituaries had this real world impact where at least four people that I know of called our mutual friends and thought I had died with her, like we had a suicide pact or something. It caused extra distress to some of my friends and that made me really angry. The verge I did has identified.

0:50:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Why are they making? How are they? How are they? How are the bad guys making money on this? That's what I don't get.

0:50:41 - Leo Laporte
By. Oh well, they have ads on the, just like anybody makes money, they have ads on the page. The verge identified over a dozen websites that published the news about his death, along with several YouTube videos of people reading obituaries from a script. Another way to do it get the AI obituary, read it and you'll get. People will get hits if you say, oh, did he just die? And you know, leo Laporte just died. Well, here's a story on YouTube. I should I probably got. This is a mistake of me to say that the sites have strange, unfamiliar names and maintain a constant stream of articles about a wide range of topics, including the death of individuals around All the fake reviews, it's more fake fake news, fake reviews.

0:51:25 - Jeff Jarvis
So I just went to Gemini and I said write my obituary. My name is Jeff Jarvis, I'm a journalist and educator. It comes back and says unfortunately I don't have enough information to write a comprehensive and respectful obituary for you, jeff, to truly honor your life and achievements, I would need details about specific areas of your career and impact. I can offer a template you can use to create your own obituary or to share with someone you know Well in love. Remembering of Jeff Jarvis, journalist and educator. Parenthesis, dates of birth and death and birth.

0:51:58 - Leo Laporte
This is well GBT photo of yourself. Chachi BT did not have such scruples. Leo Laporte, a pioneering broadcaster and tech journalist widely celebrated for his instrumental role in demystifying technology for millions, passed away at the age of insert age on insert date Born on November 1956 in New York City.

0:52:18 - Jeff Jarvis
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, blah Carved a niche for himself as a carousel. I don't know.

0:52:22 - Paris Martineau
This is good, this is good, oh, it's got all your stuff.

0:52:25 - Leo Laporte
Laporte's legacy is not just the content he created, but in the community he built, his enthusiasm for tech. I am I'm going to start crying. He survived by his family.

0:52:36 - Paris Martineau
He'll be dearly missed, but his legacy will live on to the countless lives of us.

0:52:41 - Leo Laporte
In lieu of flowers, the family request donations be made to insert charity name here A cause that close to the board's heart, a cause that close to the board's heart Furthering education. Furthering education. Oh, they've even made up that there is some charity close to my heart furthering education and access to technology for underserved communities. I let me copy this this is fantastic.

0:53:02 - Jeff Jarvis
He will be dearly missed. Right right Paris. We miss him already, it's true.

0:53:06 - Paris Martineau
We miss him already. I got like 10 paragraphs baby. This is good.

0:53:11 - Leo Laporte
This is good, see, jeff, you just you know you gotta you gotta, oh, you should get a you should get an AI.

0:53:18 - Paris Martineau
You should get one of those services to make an AI version of your voice and then you can have AI Leo. Read the AI Leo obituary for you.

0:53:27 - Leo Laporte
Before his rise to fame, laporte's passion for technology was evident in his early career, where he spent time as a software developer and a professor teaching computer science.

0:53:39 - Paris Martineau
Yep, you know you, you famous software developer and professor.

0:53:43 - Leo Laporte
His transition to media was marked by his work with tech TV, where he co-hosted the screen service for the, solidifying his status as a tech media icon. I can't read this with a straight face, but that's pretty good. All I said was write the obituary for Leo Laporte.

0:53:58 - Jeff Jarvis
A cemetery in Slovenia is now providing the option of a digital tombstone. Oh, I've seen those.

0:54:04 - Paris Martineau
I could also get you a digital tombstone if you give me five minutes and a raspberry pie.

0:54:11 - Leo Laporte
No, those have been around for a while. They have video of you on there and I think there's even some that will do a hologram of you. Maybe that's, maybe I'm imagining that, but, like you, like, help me, obi-wan, can? Obi-wan? Only it's you and you and you project it onto the onto this grave and you go.

0:54:29 - Speaker 2
hey, I don't know what would you say, Paris, if you?

0:54:35 - Leo Laporte
could have a hologram projected onto your grave site.

0:54:40 - Paris Martineau
I would probably be like whoo, I'm a ghost.

0:54:45 - Leo Laporte
Want to play ski ball? Wow, no, yeah, yeah, this is. This is an NBC story from six years ago, jeff. It does mention Slovenia. So yeah, yeah, yeah, well, anyway. So what are we saying? We're saying big deal that AI's are writing a bit just more spam, more.

0:55:07 - Jeff Jarvis
SEO crap. What this is going to mean back to your value adding is that you're going to have to find places that actually find real and good and credible stuff, and the internet is going to get ruined more and more and more at a general level, especially as places like the New York Times pull their content off of it and off of open AI, so I don't know what happens to finding the good stuff.

0:55:35 - Leo Laporte
Oh, so spooky, I love it.

0:55:40 - Paris Martineau
Oh my God, we saw Paris.

0:55:45 - Leo Laporte
According to the verge of Paris, the friendly ghost Paris.

0:55:48 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, come on, joe Esposito, are you working?

0:55:52 - Leo Laporte
Oh the friendly ghost. Oh, Mia Sato writes in the verge of bituary. Scraping is a common practice. Funeral homes have been dealing with obituary aggregator sites for at least 15 years, so just the fact that the AI is doing it now is not really See. This is an example of is. This is just bad human behavior that's been in here for as long as the internet's been here, so as long as web has been here.

0:56:16 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, yeah. So it's just these tools and unethical ways to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

0:56:25 - Leo Laporte
That's what your projection should say, right there, oh yeah.

0:56:30 - Paris Martineau
It should soberly say people are always going to use tools and unethical ways.

0:56:36 - Jeff Jarvis
This is what I imagine Paris's version of the Kelsey meme screaming at the coach.

0:56:42 - Leo Laporte
It'll just be saying that oh, that was that became a meme immediately. That was a great meme. Oh, Travis Kelsey of the Kansas.

0:56:50 - Paris Martineau
City had the same energy of Donald Trump yelling at that child with the lawnmower.

0:56:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, you know also the, the. Was it the drunken girl yelling into the?

0:57:02 - Paris Martineau
into the guy. Yeah, at the music festival yeah.

0:57:05 - Leo Laporte
Do you think there's a way of knowing ahead of time that your behavior might become mean? Well, first of all, if you're on a, well, if you're dating Taylor Swift yes yes, I guess you can bet on it, yeah.

0:57:17 - Paris Martineau
I think so because that podcast I mentioned a couple times in the show game of roses that coaches players to go on the Bachelor. Something that they talk about a lot in their book and coaching materials is what they call face play, which is basically just making over exaggerated faces and reactions in the hope that you get caught in the background of a scene and it becomes a meme which does work quite well Wow.

0:57:44 - Leo Laporte
Do, you do?

0:57:45 - Paris Martineau
that I mean I'm just have a naturally expressive face. So I've always thought that I would probably pop off on a reality show if I was ever on one.

0:57:53 - Leo Laporte
You should just walk around behind people. You can't control it.

0:57:55 - Paris Martineau
I do think I was destined to be kind of one of those people who wanders into the back of like a TV news segment and really ruins the shot.

0:58:06 - Speaker 6
The real trick is getting the editor to notice you. That's the real trick. The editor, yeah, because it's an editor who's actually putting that together.

0:58:12 - Paris Martineau
Yeah.

0:58:13 - Speaker 6
So it's going to notice you while he's really looking at the dailies. That's how you get on.

0:58:16 - Leo Laporte
So we have an example from Discord here. Yes, there's a reporter on the street, very funny.

0:58:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Did you go up to the?

0:58:29 - Leo Laporte
to the uh, joe has already got a. Uh, oh, I've seen the Kelsey one, oh, I get it. Well, no, no, no, no, what they what? Patrick Delahani said about it why haven't you joined club twin? Okay, we got to reuse that. That's a.

0:58:41 - Paris Martineau
That's a good one that's pretty good.

0:58:43 - Leo Laporte
We, uh, we do have a club. It is a mere seven bucks a month. You get ad free versions of all of our shows. You get a lot of extra content that we don't put out anywhere else, like the hands on Macintosh show, hands on windows, uh, the untitled Linux show, home theater geeks. Uh, we just did Stacy's book club, by the way, it was really fun. A grim book, but we're picking a new book right now. So if you are in the club, uh, go to the Stacy's book club, uh, segment section and uh, vote on the poll. There's a poll, uh, right there. It's the first Stacy's book club poll and uh, we'll see what the the book will be. There's one in that's leading, but you can, you can change it right now. I we wanted to have a nice, happy book club next time. The point is that club to it is fun, but there's also another point to it. It's uh going forward.

I think the most important way we're going to make this network survive. Add dollars dwindling. Uh, you know, they're going to influencers, they're going other places and in a lot of cases, for some reason, companies have just stopped advertising. Uh, but that, yeah, isn't that odd. I don't. I don't know why, but it means that we can't rely on advertising to keep doing what we do. We need to rely on our audience. I like that. I think that's a good way to go. I hope you do too. We don't need everybody, but if if only one in 10 of you subscribed, we wouldn't need advertising. We could add new shows. We could do a whole lot more. So I'm just asking that one person in the 10, are you the one? Quittv slash club twit, go there, join the club. We would love to have you. And, of course, the discord is a great place to hang to. Uh, we're going to come back with more in just a bit. Are showed a brought to you by collide.

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The Biden administration has named a director of the AI Safety Institute. Her name is Elizabeth Kelly, the AI Safety Institute at the National Institute for Standards and Technologies, part of the Commerce Department, kelly is currently an economic policy advisor for President Biden. She was one of the most important people in drafting the executive order that established the Institute, so I guess logical that she'd get the job. I'm looking at the AP story about it. It does not the only credentials it gives her. She graduated Yale Law School, worked at the Obama White House and at Capital One.

1:02:26 - Speaker 2
I don't know what she knows about AI. What else do?

1:02:28 - Leo Laporte
you need, I guess, yeah, I guess it's good to have AI safety in theory.

1:02:36 - Paris Martineau
Well, this is the true thing. You sound so hesitant.

1:02:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, I just don't know what the what do you want? To slow down the acceleration? You?

1:02:42 - Paris Martineau
don't? Yeah, you gotta hit the gas.

1:02:45 - Leo Laporte
There is a new species of birthing, my friends, and we need to midwife it into existence. Let us not assume that we are the end of the line, that we are the pinnacle, the peak, the best evolution has to offer. Clearly we are not, and if something comes along that can take our place and do a better job, I think it behooves us to help. Well, in all seriousness now I want that on my gravestone, like that California lawmaker named Mr Dr Beaver.

1:03:15 - Jeff Jarvis
He's gonna be very crowded gravestone.

1:03:16 - Paris Martineau
Put all that on it.

1:03:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, he deserves a novel there. Yes, he's proposed a landmark AI building in California. Oh see, this worries me so much. It does me too, because what it argues is that model companies will be required to test for all unsafe behavior before they train the model. You can't test, you can't possibly predict, you don't know Everything that jerks will do. Right, there's just no way. But it is false comfort to think well, it'll be made safe, my law made it safe for you and nothing bad will happen with AI. And when it does, let's just sue the bastards.

1:03:53 - Leo Laporte
Senate Bill 896, christopher Dodd is its supporter. I'm sorry, I'm thinking of another Dodd the senator Dodd, this is Bill Dodd from Napa, just up the way. Piece To ensure state agencies advance safeguards and consumer protections.

1:04:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, that's another one, I think.

1:04:13 - Leo Laporte
This is the California AI Accountability Act. This is a different one. This is called the. Yeah, I think something like that. Oh my god, how many of them do we need?

1:04:21 - Jeff Jarvis
There's 407 bills in 44 states. Oh jeez, louise, with a rapidly evolving.

Everybody's jumping on this. A new bill from Senator Scott Wiener. Does it have a name? Companies want to disclose their testing protocols? Okay, fine. And what guardrails they put in place to the California Department of Technology? If the tech causes critical harm, the state's journey general can sue the company, which is always on its bow. When I read the bill and it's almost funny because it marks well, if it's a weapon of mass destruction, you can't do it. Well, okay, at least. How is this?

1:04:59 - Leo Laporte
going to be won. At least Wiener pays lip service to the value of AI. He says in his press release, large scale artificial intelligence has the potential to produce an incredible range of benefits for Californians and our economy, from advances in medicine and climate science to improve wildfire forecasting and clean power development. But he also says it gives us an opportunity to apply hard lessons learned over the last decade, as we've seen the consequences of allowing the unchecked growth of new technology without understanding, evaluating and mitigating the risks. I don't think that's you know. That's all reasonable. It comes down to the details, right? The devil's in the details.

1:05:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, yeah. So it's basically you should be able to predict everything that can be done with this. You should test it before you even train it. So what are you testing? Model doesn't exist really yet, and you should guarantee that it's not going to do anything bad. The model can be can be held liable for everything that's done with it, no more than Gutenberg should be held liable for everything that's been printed. Right, I know those who get to guns kill people.

guns people kill people argument pretty soon, but it's a general tool that can do a lot of different things. Ergo, you can't predict A gun is built to shoot a bullet and kill something.

1:06:10 - Leo Laporte
Honestly, I'll be it's built to do God knows what. Reading between the lines, I think this is Senator Weiner trying to defang representative assemblyman Dodds proposal, because he's he's saying a lot of good things about AI. He's saying but we got to be safe. And then he's saying the only systems that meet this bill's threshold of 10 to the 26th flops would cost over a hundred million dollars to train and would be substantially more powerful than any system that exists today. So I think what he's doing really is saying oh, yeah, yeah, we, we believe in safety.

And he's setting up a straw man, some massive they're in a century. Yeah Well, someday we're going to really have to worry, but in the meantime, this is, this is good. Let's full speed ahead. That would be my guess of what he's up to here. Developers of these models must take basic precautions, but only a handful of extremely large AI developers, no new obligations for startups or customers of AI products. I think this is as bad as as as milk toast as you can get, and I'm I'm going to bet that this is more to to defang the other bills and say that's it, we care about safety.

1:07:24 - Paris Martineau
Yeah.

1:07:26 - Jeff Jarvis
Paris. Does the information have a Washington correspondent?

1:07:30 - Paris Martineau
No, we did not.

1:07:31 - Jeff Jarvis
That's interesting Cause there's going to be so much policy stuff around tech.

1:07:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, this one's state level, but of course, California has been the leader in privacy and other things. California is is a nation and this is where, yeah, and this is where all the AI stuff, a lot of the AI stuff, is happening. So, um and the uh, finally, uh, the University of Pennsylvania. Is that pen?

1:07:52 - Jeff Jarvis
No, but yes, that's pen. And state is the state one. Right University of Pennsylvania is the private one. I have a friend. I have a friend who went there for her master's degree very good friend of mine and she didn't realize. She thought she was going to a state school. She arrived on campus and suddenly realized it was I. This is Ivy League. I got it.

1:08:08 - Leo Laporte
I don't know that happened. You know, as a a, a somebody who spent a little bit of time in the Ivy League, I never really thought pen belonged in those hallowed. Oh you snobs. Anyway, pen has introduced a AI degree Part of their school of engineering for undergraduates, a bachelor of science degree in artificial intelligence. I think that's appropriate. It's, it's, uh, it's computer science, but it's as far as his specialty. By the way, electives include electives include AI ethics and trustworthy AI. So if you're interested, you could, but you don't have to.

1:08:46 - Jeff Jarvis
So I am. I've not announced anything yet, but I'm going to be developing, at a new school, a program in the internet, ai and humanities.

1:08:55 - Paris Martineau
Oh, wait a minute, so exciting.

1:08:57 - Leo Laporte
So wait a minute. We need to write a new card for you. Oh, you'll need a whole new card.

1:09:02 - Paris Martineau
Are you a professor? You gotta get a new chorus.

1:09:06 - Leo Laporte
Do you have a chair? Is it endowed? No, no, no, I want to be doing it. Should we get a choral group to sing the names, the praises, of your endower? What do we need to do here to support you? That's great At the new school yeah. That's in New York, right? No, no, no, it's at a new school. Oh, a new school Not the new school, not the new school.

1:09:27 - Jeff Jarvis
I have, I have, I have a faculty meeting on Friday.

1:09:29 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you haven't met, you have, you are now is undisclosed the name of this. It's undisclosed the name of the school.

1:09:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I'm very excited about this. Is it bigger than a bread box yeah, but it's not you know it's not Ivy League, because I'm a man of the people, a man of the people Wow.

1:09:48 - Leo Laporte
No, in fact that was one of the great things about the CUNY School of Journalism, graduate School of Journalism, I think. Didn't Craig make it possible that half the students there were there on a scholarship or were there for?

1:09:58 - Jeff Jarvis
free. Yeah, he just gave another 10 million. Craig is incredibly, incredibly generous and gave enough after the 20 million he gave when I brought him to the school. And Sarah Bartlett, the Dean, who you bet yeah, I love.

1:10:09 - Leo Laporte
Sarah, she was great. Where did she get that?

1:10:11 - Jeff Jarvis
by the way, another she's retired, retired yeah, she's doing a hyper local blog upstate in New York. Oh, neat, good for her. Yeah, so so, but anyway. So, yes, I'm working on that. So there was there was an op-ed today in the times from an executive at LinkedIn which makes this argument. That basically says we don't need the technologists, we don't need the coders and programmers. What we need is people who deal with people, humans. That's exactly why I'm starting this degree. The number one skill that is sought for across LinkedIn ads, he said, is communication.

1:10:43 - Leo Laporte
Why you could have written this piece from Anish Raman and Maria Flynn.

Right when your technical skills are eclipsed, your humanity will matter more than ever. They say we need better humans, not better AI. True that, and Actually AI, better AI relies on better humans. Me needs needs humans. I that I completely agree with it. It's not, you know, because we've seen this. The tech bros have a have, a unique bias that you see in gaming, you see it software and you see an AI and, and it really would be very valuable To get input from more than just the Silicon Valley mafia and this stuff. Good, so your school is gonna do that.

1:11:29 - Paris Martineau
When will you be able to announce more details about it?

1:11:32 - Jeff Jarvis
I Need to go to a meeting on Friday and see what's what. But I told I asked them that was okay to insert it in my Book that's coming out in the fall. They said yeah, by that time, sure, so it's in there.

1:11:44 - Paris Martineau
So sometime between now and the fall.

1:11:46 - Leo Laporte
Yes, I will say more. Oh, this is very, this is good news. So you may, you may have deorbit it from one Planet, but you've, you've orbited again. You've reorbited another.

1:11:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I'm sure there's a there's a way to say that you slingshot around the planet to go to another, to go around the moon.

1:12:06 - Leo Laporte
I'm not gonna be full time. Even better, that means we get more of you right. What are you gonna do with the rest of it? Are you gonna?

1:12:13 - Paris Martineau
have to move. Is it in the New York area? It's in this area.

1:12:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, aren't you the reporter? Look at this, look at what she's doing.

1:12:19 - Leo Laporte
She's so good, this is a good. What are you gonna do with the cat? I'll tell you Paris. Actually, okay, here's a real admission. I think Jeff told me about this a while ago, but I've completely forgotten.

1:12:32 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think Jeff has talked about interviewing for this before.

1:12:38 - Leo Laporte
Am I wrong, jeff? You told me right, yeah, and I just, I did, I just Okay, yeah it's okay.

1:12:43 - Jeff Jarvis
It's okay, president Biden, it's all right.

1:12:44 - Leo Laporte
You know one good thing about losing your mind is that everything's new and fresh and exciting.

1:12:49 - Paris Martineau
Yes, I'm not beautiful, it's really. You're a fresh babe.

1:12:52 - Leo Laporte
I'm a babe in the woods. Anyway, that's very good news and I look forward to being able to reveal to the world.

1:13:02 - Jeff Jarvis
And we'll talk about this kind of stuff, lots of the show. This is that what we talk about.

1:13:05 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I think it's already ethics of this.

1:13:07 - Jeff Jarvis
What are?

1:13:07 - Leo Laporte
they even. Sam Altman says societal misenliments could cause AI danger. Oh, this is. This is. He's also speaking in the UAE here.

1:13:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, he looks like like Zuckerberg on a bad day, doesn't he?

1:13:24 - Paris Martineau
He looks like he's being held hostage, yeah.

1:13:28 - Leo Laporte
I don't know him. I never knew him. He is speaking at the world government summit in Dubai. This was a yesterday. Okay, this is. This is the kind of this is a bad reporter question. Okay, sam, what AI related fear is keeping you up at night?

1:13:48 - Paris Martineau
That's a bad question is a classic on stage interview.

1:13:53 - Jeff Jarvis
Questions. So well, my board of directors tends to yeah.

1:13:58 - Leo Laporte
So Sam says I'm not that interested in the killer robots walking on the street direction of things going wrong. Yeah, I wouldn't be either if I were running a giant AI company. I'm much more interested in the very subtle societal misalignments where we just have these systems out in society and, through no particular ill intention, things just go horribly wrong. Okay, now I'm not gonna sleep. What does he mean by that and what definition of horribly?

1:14:29 - Jeff Jarvis
wrong Escriol. It's all part of the test. Oh, it's test, greal.

1:14:33 - Leo Laporte
He also says generative AI is a potential to improve lives. I think we can raise the standard of living so incredibly much If everybody has access to abundant amounts of really high quality intelligence. They can use these tools to create whatever they want to do. Boy, this really is kind of a airy-fairy kind of vision for the future. I Guess that goes to universal basic income and things like that. It's that's not encouraging, frankly. That that's. That's how he communicates his vision. Did you see speaking of zuck, his, of his Takedown?

1:15:11 - Jeff Jarvis
of the vision problem. I did. It's really. It's also. It's interesting for the for what he has to say about a competitive product in his own. But it's also interesting because he's more media savvy in this that I've ever seen him. He's more relaxed.

1:15:22 - Leo Laporte
That's funny because I'm you know said he almost certainly Avoided the advice of his PR department when he decided to make this, and the reason he said this is because I Remember when Steve Ballmer laughed at the iPhone. He says people Remember those kinds of things long long after and if you're the kind of guy who comes on says you know, as, as Zuck said, we're just a better product period, you know, there may be 10 years from now. People may remember that he looks kind of okay, here he's. The video was shot here. Do see this guy across from he's wearing. That guy is shooting the video he's shooting the video except it's not exactly Right.

Some people pointed out that they're using a pass-through, which is Not. This is not the view you, the guy in the hand helmet is. Seeing. It's a high-resolution pass through. It is the cameras on the helmet, but it doesn't. This is not what it looks like on the screens in the helmet, because it has a higher quality pass-through, so it's a little. It's a little inaccurate to say this is what you see. If you're wearing him at a quest. It's shot through their pass-through, so it's a little higher quality. You know his basic.

1:16:39 - Paris Martineau
It's interesting I, going off of what Micah had talked about last week when he was in the show, I think I've been seeing a lot more people on Twitter and elsewhere on social media talk about returning their vision pros because of it being uncomfortable, which I mean, I think, is a issue that the quest 3 Doesn't have at least the same extent. Lighter because the lower price it's lighter, but it also doesn't cost 3,500 all no, as Zuck says is one seventh the cost it's a hundred.

1:17:11 - Leo Laporte
He says it's like 118 grams lighter, which sounds like a lot. Until you 28 grams in an ounce, and it's at least I remember from my cocaine days. I remember that, and Am I right though 28 grams to an ounce? Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. If you had an ounce of cocaine, you'd have 28 grams. Look, sometimes you know you got to have a party. No, I never bought cocaine in my life. I only did it once in college and I didn't like it. So anyway, zuck says we're cheaper, we oh, this is also. He says we're open, and I don't know if that's exactly true. Is meta open compared to what Apple is doing? I mean, certainly there's no question, apple is a wall to garden. Metta works. The meta quest works with Windows, I guess, so it's Probably it works with Mac, I would assume there's steam games.

1:18:04 - Speaker 6
You can play steam, you play steam, so it's open. You can't do that on the Apple.

1:18:07 - Leo Laporte
You can't do that on the Apple. In fact, the real value of the quest, if you ask me, is steam.

1:18:13 - Speaker 6
Well, yeah, that's the only real killer app for VR is gaming yeah.

1:18:21 - Leo Laporte
Somebody's saying we should make the title of the show 28 grams of cocaine is a lot. I wouldn't know either. That was not my.

1:18:32 - Paris Martineau
I was gonna say I think also there was a good show title suggesting earlier that was our IP Leo.

1:18:42 - Leo Laporte
But the SEO would be through the roof. Promise you can only be once right. Twice once really yeah, yeah, yeah, but then you've already kind of spoiled it so like, oh, not again, he died again, come on.

1:19:00 - Paris Martineau
How many times this guy gonna die?

1:19:01 - Leo Laporte
really, let's see, is I'm gonna let you guys cuz I I do. We want to do another tiktok tunnel.

1:19:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, we don't have to. I put that in.

1:19:13 - Leo Laporte
This is a new segment. You're calling Paris bait. That's me. I called that.

1:19:18 - Paris Martineau
It's also this week in tunnels. We've got an update from the tiktok tunnel girl. She says her north northern Virginia home project is moving along. After you know, the permitting process is supposed to take at least another month but she's working to get the permits for and construction.

1:19:38 - Leo Laporte
Where is she going in the with the tunnel? What's she doing?

1:19:42 - Paris Martineau
She's going underneath Her house to, basically, an area right behind there, I think, some sort of like storm shelter situation, but she had to stop Because after all the tiktok attention yeah, you brought us that story, yeah, and so apparently you.

1:20:03 - Leo Laporte
There is some desire for you to expand your tunneling.

1:20:07 - Paris Martineau
I've been getting a lot of Of requests to talk about the tunnel guy who is Colin fursie.

1:20:15 - Leo Laporte
I'm probably pronouncing his last name Is he a well known, always a youtuber.

1:20:22 - Paris Martineau
Digging a tunnel underneath his House and garden without permission, while he also briefly got shut down and then got permission retrospective permission and has continued to tunnel Uh. He posts updates on his youtube. Seems like he's Uh putting in the tunneling work, I guess.

1:20:44 - Leo Laporte
I uh, I, I mean.

1:20:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Why for him I?

1:20:48 - Paris Martineau
guess. I guess, I don't know, it's not on tiktok so I can't watch it. It's a youtube video.

1:20:54 - Leo Laporte
You, um, new man. Oh, this is a changelog. They have one changelog, do it the google changelog. It's really sad, it's slim pickings. We have thought about too much. Part. Well, part of it is, you know, the changelog would be mostly google's killing another project, another product and I don't really want to make it the google obituary. So New mass gmail rejections to start in april. Google says so. I think it was february 1 that google said they were gonna force All inbound mail to be using email authentication spf, d mark and d cam. Um, maybe, but maybe, uh, maybe this is going to be in march. Google's confirmed from or other april it will start rejecting a percentage of non compliant email traffic. So I uh, okay, starting february, gmail were calling the following percentage has sent 5 000 or more messages. So this is it. If you're sending a lot of them like a newsletter, uh, you have to authenticate the outgoing email, avoid sending unwanted or unsolicited email and make it easy for people to unsubscribe. So that's all I think that's good.

1:22:15 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, yeah seems good it's not everybody.

1:22:18 - Jeff Jarvis
If somebody has an unsubscribe option, I just unsubscribe. If they don't, I reported to spam.

1:22:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah so this is only. This only applies to bulk mailers and it does not apply to messages sent to google workspace accounts. So so please spam, jeff.

1:22:35 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, he can't stop. Another benefit.

1:22:40 - Leo Laporte
All centers, including those using Google Workspace, must meet the requirements. It's just we're not going to protect Google Workspace users. Google One AI. Premium. Now this is. We were talking about this earlier, so I think we kind of already did this but for $20, you get Google One AI Premium, which includes Gemini Advanced and Gemini for Workspace, in addition to your other Google One offer.

1:23:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Workspace. You can actually get AI for Workspace now, but you've got to pay another $20 after I already pay you Google.

1:23:10 - Paris Martineau
And who knows whether it'll work for your messed up account, Jeff.

1:23:15 - Leo Laporte
This is a rebrand of Duet. Ai Includes features like Help Me Write, Organize, Help Me Mama, Help Me Mama. For non-Workspace users, these features have so far been free. Google started charging Jeff $30 a month last year. Ok, AI Premium is otherwise the same two terabyte premium plan that costs $10 a month. Oh, OK. So if you have a Google One $10 account, it'll be $20. If you want to add the premium AI, Get the 20 total, or 20 plus 10?. Google AI, Google One AI Premium.

1:24:00 - Jeff Jarvis
This is when we add value, folks. Yeah, this is the value.

1:24:03 - Leo Laporte
Me thinking. This is the value. Gemini is also the name for Google Cloud, because my name, my name, my name, my name, gemini is the name of the product that's valuable.

1:24:19 - Paris Martineau
I believe in you, Leo. You've just got to retrieve the right information in response to the prompt.

1:24:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Because you are AI after all.

1:24:27 - Paris Martineau
It's true.

1:24:31 - Leo Laporte
Here it is. This is what I was looking for a chart. Google One plans basic, $1.99 a month, standard premium and AI premium. So AI is everything in premium and then for $10 more you get the Gemini advanced with the ultra 1.0 model, plus Gemini in Gmail docs and more. I am not going to pay for that. I don't think I do pay for the premium Google One, mostly for the two terabyte storage. Also premium video calling features and enhanced appointment scheduling. Yeah, they're trying too hard.

1:25:07 - Jeff Jarvis
They're trying too hard, I think we, because I know you've got to get out of here, jeff, jesus, yeah, but not for another half an hour.

1:25:18 - Leo Laporte
Don't rush me, man. Where are you going?

1:25:21 - Jeff Jarvis
Washington DC for a meeting of the Center for News Technology and Innovation. Do you take the X-sella? I will take the X-sella down. I'll get the before the red line closes midnight, I hope. Get to my hotel, go to the meeting, get on a one o'clock train tomorrow and come back.

1:25:41 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you're a mass transit man. I think that's cool. I wish we had trains.

1:25:45 - Paris Martineau
I think it's very funny when Jeff originally was talking about how oh yeah, on this show I'm going to have to do it in early out and I was like, oh, is it Valentine's Day, jeff? Are you doing something with your wife? So romantic. He's like no, I'm taking the train to DC at 7.30.

1:25:59 - Leo Laporte
I'm getting out of town. That's doing something for her.

1:26:01 - Jeff Jarvis
This is what happens with age.

1:26:05 - Leo Laporte
I hate to tell you. Do you want to be a?

1:26:06 - Jeff Jarvis
nihilist already, so it's fine.

1:26:08 - Leo Laporte
I wasn't going to do this. They're asking us to cover this in the club the Waymo that was destroyed in San Francisco, I guess part of a protest. Oh yeah, what?

1:26:20 - Jeff Jarvis
do you feel yeah, I didn't put that in because it felt like a story you wouldn't want to do.

1:26:24 - Leo Laporte
You're exactly right, mostly because I've been in mobs before and mobs do dumb things. Because it's a mob mentality, you do things you would never do as an individual, and I think this is one of them. No one was in the driverless vehicle as it was surrounded and set on fire in Chinatown. There's a picture. It started when somebody jumped on the hood, smashed the windshield it was about 9 o'clock at night, generating applause according to the verge before a crowd formed around the car and covered it in spray paint, breaking its windows, ultimately setting it on fire.

1:27:03 - Paris Martineau
I mean it's. What sort of mobs have you been in before, leo?

1:27:07 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you know how it is. You go to a visa, they have a fog machine and suddenly you're destroying cars.

No, I had one vivid experience. I was in high school. I was in a Vietnam War protest and it was a peaceful protest. We were marching but then somebody started Maybe there's a police car. Somebody started rocking it and I really could sense that the mob had its own mind, that individuals in the mob probably would not have done this, but they started rocking the police car. I think they could easily have flipped it and burned it and done all these things. I got the hell out of there, but it scared me and I realized that people do things in large groups that they don't.

1:27:48 - Jeff Jarvis
I covered the after Dan White got off on the Twiggy Defense for killing my friends George Morskody and Harvey Milk. I was covering what became a riot at San. Francisco City Hall.

1:28:01 - Leo Laporte
The Gay Riot An understandable riot. Incredibly, I'd be incredibly angry, but this was not prompted by. It wasn't a protest about driverless vehicles or anything, but it just shows, I guess, that there are people in the world who are upset about driverless vehicles angry about that, or is it represents big tech? It's the same thing Capitalism. It's the same thing as people for a long time were vandalizing the Google bus that would drive technology workers down to Google.

1:28:33 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think it also probably is. It's a sign of the growing class divide in a city like San Francisco, where financial inequality is an omnipresent issue.

1:28:50 - Speaker 6
Yeah, when I lived in San Francisco, like my commute home, I had to drive every day, literally every day. I ended up behind one of these.

1:28:59 - Leo Laporte
Really it was the worst. Yeah, because they drive like grandmas.

1:29:03 - Speaker 6
They're grandmas. It's the worst. Every day I was behind one of those Also.

1:29:08 - Leo Laporte
last week a Waymo hit a cyclist. That probably didn't help right. I have to say extra points to Wes Davis of the Verge. He's a it says a weekend editor.

He decided in the last paragraph to wax philosophical Vandalism and defacement are time honored parts of the human experience, seen in subway cars in New York City or the walls of ancient, destroyed city of Pompeii. Oh Jesus. Tech companies have been forced to reckon with this inevitability as they deploy their equipment in public with impunity. Scooters get tossed into lakes, cars are punched by pedestrians and, in some places, dockless bike share bikes are destroyed en masse. Finn.

1:29:58 - Jeff Jarvis
Meanwhile the Guardian worked with Mission Local to look at all the libertarian rich tech money that's going into San Francisco politics. It's going to get weirder yet that city it is.

1:30:12 - Leo Laporte
It is a weird, and yet I love San Francisco, as I know you do, Jeff.

1:30:16 - Jeff Jarvis
I've loved it too. It's a great city. But you know what? When I left, I regretted it terribly and I wanted to go back and I tried to go back. In the end, I'm where I belong New Jersey.

1:30:26 - Leo Laporte
Paris. No one belongs in New Jersey.

1:30:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Close enough for jazz.

1:30:30 - Paris Martineau
Jeff belongs in New Jersey.

1:30:33 - Leo Laporte
What were you going to say, Paris?

1:30:34 - Paris Martineau
You started saying oh, I was just saying. One of my favorite blogs I did back in my blogging days is this article I wrote I put it in the chat In December 2017, someone covered this robot security guard in barbecue sauce and bullied it into submission. The lead, which is a robot security guard tasked with guarding the streets of San Francisco from the homeless, has been put on administrative leave after it was found knocked over, covered in barbecue sauce and wrapped in a tarp. Well, are you?

1:31:07 - Leo Laporte
surprised. Look at this thing. Oh, you wrote this for an intelligence service, yeah, her early blog. That's awesome. Did you see the excerpt from Kara Swisher's book and the intelligence service this week?

1:31:21 - Paris Martineau
I did.

1:31:21 - Leo Laporte
I did see that I thought. Kara really likes Kara Swisher.

1:31:26 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say, I mean, that's my thoughts. Kara really knows and feels her own brand.

1:31:36 - Leo Laporte
It was just like I mean, look, I know Kara, she's been on our shows. She wouldn't talk to me anymore but she's in the back of the day before she was famous. But it really it was kind of a tone deaf name dropping and every picture was of Kara embracing a tech person.

1:31:57 - Paris Martineau
Yes, yes like hogging a tech person, like clearly getting drinks or something with them. It was odd.

1:32:07 - Leo Laporte
It's an excerpt from her new book which is coming out. The book, the title of the piece, was Over three decades tech, obliterated media, my front row seat to a slow moving catastrophe. But it really is an ode to Kara Swisher All the people I know.

1:32:27 - Jeff Jarvis
History as seen through Kara Swisher's eyes.

1:32:29 - Leo Laporte
Here I am with Mark Cuban in 2001. Here I am with Sergey Brin in 2003.

1:32:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Photo's courtesy of Kara Swisher. So she's got a file. Was she filed?

1:32:42 - Leo Laporte
around by a photographer. Here I am with Jerry Yang in my trademark sunglasses in 2011. That's actually one thing I gleaned from this is that she when the trademark sunglasses actually began, which was exactly 2011. Because, yeah, there they go. Ah, now that's the Kara we know. Here's one that I probably. This is her with her wife, her ex-wife, megan Smith, and Rupert Murdoch. Yes, and the future is there, and there she is with a selfie with Mark Mark Zuckerberg taking a selfie.

And then my favorite one at the very end, with Elon Musk at Tesla HQ.

1:33:22 - Paris Martineau
Her putting her hand on Elon Musk.

1:33:25 - Speaker 2
Like he's, like his shoulders are shelf In what seems to be an interview.

1:33:30 - Paris Martineau
Don't think I've ever touched anyone. I've interviewed, yeah, yeah.

1:33:35 - Leo Laporte
The. My digital journey in media, she writes, has been a long one, and perhaps it's OK that we had to be destroyed, or nearly so, to become something else. What I am certain of is we don't have to yet be another meal for Big Tech to Google Oops, gobble up. They think they can eat media. My reply bite me Her. The burn book will be published by Simon and Schuster on February 27th. Yeah, but so there you go. You used to write for the Intelligencer and now she's writing for the Intelligencer.

1:34:14 - Paris Martineau
Now, here she is.

1:34:15 - Jeff Jarvis
She follows in your footsteps.

1:34:17 - Leo Laporte
It was interesting. I watched the Super Bowl, of course, because our team was in it. It was very sad.

1:34:22 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, sorry.

1:34:22 - Paris Martineau
Lisa, and how do?

1:34:24 - Leo Laporte
they do, leo, don't talk about it. But the other thing you watch for is to kind of get the zeitgeist. Because the ads on the Super Bowl $7 million for half a minute tell you a lot, especially since in years gone by it was all about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Right, didn't see one cryptocurrency ad. Apple very famously 40 years ago in 1984, announced the Macintosh on the Super Bowl. There were no Apple ads. I think Google had an ad last year. Yeah, google had an ad. I think this year they had one ad about.

There was a phone last year, yeah, and Microsoft had an ad showing you how you're going to use AI to put a football helmet on your cat. The tech industry was definitely, I just funny. I remember so well the first time I saw a dot com ad on the Super Bowl, which was probably 20 years ago. It's probably petscom.

1:35:20 - Paris Martineau
It probably was. Yeah, oh yeah, the famous petscom ad with the puppet.

1:35:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, the talking dog, and that was a big deal. It was like, wow, the internet's really. Here, we're on the Super Bowl and now it's just you know what internet? What internet? No, there's no internet here. It was still. It's back to the beer and the horses and the dogs. There was a Pixel 8 ad on the Super Bowl. There was a Microsoft ad. There was an ad for Squarespace. Martin Scorsese started that one. It's funny because they spent a lot of money on those ads. It's really interesting. Well, monstercom might have been the first. Patrick Delahada used to work there. I think you're right, you were working at monstercom, he says boy were we excited when that ad hit. That was a big deal. It's gone back a little bit, gone back to normal, Although there were a few AI ads, not a lot, but a few.

1:36:16 - Speaker 6
AI ads. It was a lot of ads targeting Gen X.

1:36:19 - Leo Laporte
Was that it?

1:36:20 - Speaker 2
Maybe that's what it was All the people that were in it all the references that were made.

1:36:24 - Speaker 6
It's all Gen. X. It's all Gen.

1:36:25 - Leo Laporte
X Interesting, and what is Gen X? What years? Born between 70 and 80. Ok, so Paris is not, she's Gen.

1:36:33 - Speaker 6
No, she says alpha. She's a British. What does Paris consider herself?

1:36:40 - Paris Martineau
I'm the cusp. Actually it depends on what you ask, but I'm either Gen Z or millennial.

1:36:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so Gen X is the last generation before the millennials.

1:36:51 - Jeff Jarvis
Is that it yeah?

1:36:51 - Leo Laporte
yeah.

1:36:52 - Jeff Jarvis
You what? Are you Benito, yeah, benito.

1:36:55 - Leo Laporte
That's how he knows this, so you knew who all those people were on stage.

1:36:58 - Speaker 6
And all what the references were and all that stuff and even all the musical performances Like usher.

1:37:02 - Leo Laporte
Usher was the name that was for you, alicia Keys and her. And yeah, that was for you.

1:37:07 - Jeff Jarvis
What did you think of the show of the Half Diver show? It was cool. I loved her. Her was amazing.

1:37:12 - Leo Laporte
Her was the highlight, right. Well, lil John was fun, he's a character.

1:37:20 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know.

1:37:21 - Leo Laporte
I don't know.

1:37:22 - Jeff Jarvis
Sorry, sorry, lisa, sorry, yeah, we were very sad by the way.

1:37:28 - Leo Laporte
it is kind of breaking news, but apparently there was a shooting at the Super Bowl parade in the city today and I deepest, deepest. It is terrible. What is going on? What is going on? This country is sick.

1:37:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Humans are sick.

1:37:43 - Leo Laporte
Humans. We're just a mess. Just a mess, yeah. An occasion for great celebration and senseless violence. It's very sad. All right, benito, do I need to pause? For the pause that refreshes. We're going to enjoy all of us. Pepsi Cola brought to you by Sprite, and did you notice? That was one thing I thought was weird. Maybe this is aimed at you. There were at least two or three ads for soda pop, one in which it said it's back.

1:38:18 - Speaker 6
I don't remember.

1:38:19 - Paris Martineau
Well, I mean soda has been hit hard by Big Seltzer.

1:38:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, Big Seltzer really.

1:38:26 - Paris Martineau
Big Seltzer. You go to the store, there's Seltzer upon Seltzer in the aisles oh Paris. And soda has been relegated to a second or third class citizen.

1:38:36 - Jeff Jarvis
Paris, paris, paris, paris, paris. I hate to say this, but I've got to correct you here Because you're in Brooklyn. You've got to do it right, Soter, seltzer, seltzer, seltzer, seltzer I can't appropriate Seltzer culture.

1:38:50 - Paris Martineau
I have to know my place and say Seltzer.

1:38:54 - Leo Laporte
So Ice Seltzer was in an ad for a new soda called Starry Starry soda and I guess they were making fun of it. Was it Sprite or 7up? They were making fun of it. It had. Its very weird, very weird. It's time to see other sodas. Like don't drink soda, Just don't Drink Seltzer. It's much better for you Drink Seltzer. And it's probably higher profit margins for companies that make it, because it's just water and bubbles Just water, and then there was Poppy Poppy soda, which is, I think, seltzer, yeah.

1:39:33 - Paris Martineau
Big Poppy.

1:39:34 - Leo Laporte
Big Poppy is going after Big Starry A probiotic soda.

1:39:42 - Paris Martineau
Those words should not go together.

1:39:43 - Leo Laporte
Poppy is a prebiotic soda. It's a shark tank funded beverage company. Oh geez, soda, wow. They had a minute long ad. It's prebiotic what?

1:39:58 - Jeff Jarvis
does that mean? Do you really call it soda pop, Leo?

1:40:01 - Leo Laporte
No, just soda. Hold it ironically.

1:40:03 - Paris Martineau
Jeff, did you watch the Super Bowl?

1:40:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I did the whole.

1:40:07 - Paris Martineau
Thing.

1:40:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Do you?

1:40:08 - Paris Martineau
like sports Jeff.

1:40:10 - Jeff Jarvis
No, why did you watch? Jeff Taylor was on a lot. Taylor was on 54 seconds. I heard that there was wait a second.

1:40:19 - Paris Martineau
I heard that. Did you guys see Jack Dorsey wearing a knockoff Nirvana t-shirt that says Satoshi on it? That is what I've taken away from the Super Bowl. Yes, and the funny thing is Are you a sports fan, paris, nope, didn't watch the Super Bowl this year.

1:40:34 - Jeff Jarvis
You didn't at all.

1:40:35 - Paris Martineau
But I did have people over for a king cake party before. Oh, that was lovely.

1:40:39 - Leo Laporte
It's always good to not be a Super Bowl fan during the Super Bowl because you can get out and about. So the TV focuses on Jay-Z and Beyonce in the booth right. And they don't mention. They don't mention that bearded guy to Jay-Z's left. It's Jack Dorsey in a Satoshi. It's a knockoff of what, pearl? What is it? A knockoff, nirvana.

1:41:01 - Paris Martineau
I think it's a Nirvana shirt Wow. And I think it's important that the expression on his face looks like he's been transported here against as well. Not happy he looks confused and concerned by his surroundings.

1:41:14 - Leo Laporte
And they, and they and the the broadcasters had no idea that was him. Oh, you know who else looked unhappy? Lady Gaga was so unhappy. There's Jay-Z, there's Beyonce. And who? Wait a minute, wait a minute. No, forget Jay-Z and Beyonce, who's that? They didn't. You know, and I'm sitting there going Jack Dorsey and everybody's saying no, no, that's Jay-Z. How could you make that mistake? No one knew, they didn't even mention it. They had no idea where they were looking at. Just, I guess it shows you really that we do not all that important in the great scheme of things. Let us, let us pause.

1:41:53 - Paris Martineau
We are entertaining and valuable.

1:41:56 - Leo Laporte
Gosh darn it. We better be. We better be. Add that value. Oh, good piece just came out in the New Yorker. I liked Louis Monard. Oh no, we already covered that. Never mind, that was last month, don't forget. I said that.

1:42:10 - Paris Martineau
I thought it just broke. No good pieces have come out in the New Yorker.

1:42:12 - Leo Laporte
I thought that just no, nothing has happened in the New Yorker. We were to take a little break. Come back with your picks of the week, so prepare those if you will. You're watching this week in Google kicking it off with Paris's Gizmo. Gizmo, gizmo, I'm doing good, it's the camera. It's a kitty, gizmo. Hi Gizmo, there we go.

1:42:39 - Paris Martineau
Oh, she's a sweetie.

1:42:41 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, she's very good. Oh, she is just a sweetie.

1:42:44 - Paris Martineau
She's living her best life.

1:42:46 - Leo Laporte
Is she your pick of the week?

1:42:48 - Paris Martineau
Gizmo's always my pick of the week. Gizmo's my Valentine.

1:42:53 - Leo Laporte
Are we keeping you from anything on this Valentine's Eve?

1:42:57 - Paris Martineau
No. You're keeping me from hanging out with Gizmo. I've recently learned that she's discovered that when I take a shower, it removes her scent from my head. So she will get up on my shoulders and rub her head all over my head. Head so that I can smell.

1:43:12 - Leo Laporte
She's got to show who owns you. She's your owner, all right, your pick.

1:43:21 - Paris Martineau
My pick of the week is I have I've been really interested in this Instagram account called the Web Design Museum that posts regularly just screenshots of old websites from like the 90s and early 2000s, and I think it's just quite quaint, like the first one they have up there and right now is YouTube in 2005. They have an old screen chat of like you still like to defragmate?

1:43:53 - Leo Laporte
defragmenting drive scenes oh, those were the days, oh yeah.

1:43:58 - Speaker 6
Memories. That's your whole day right there.

1:44:03 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, but it was satisfying right as it came towards the end and it got it all organized.

1:44:07 - Speaker 6
And your computer got faster.

1:44:08 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, man, I've really fixed things.

1:44:10 - Paris Martineau
Now that's a story, and if you go, to the right, they've got a good one for Pepsi World. We should be making websites look like this Pepsi World's in 20 and in a 1996.

1:44:19 - Jeff Jarvis
That looks like something I'd see in my, in my VR.

1:44:23 - Leo Laporte
This is kind of amazing because this is a big brand with a lot of money, big designers, and this is what they thought was good.

1:44:33 - Speaker 6
But you didn't have that much resolution back then.

1:44:35 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, it was 1996.

1:44:38 - Leo Laporte
People were getting really into like they also have a button that says if traveling at speeds less than 22 kilobits per second, then jump on the low road. And there's a little button that says LR for the low bandwidth, the bandwidth impaired.

1:44:56 - Speaker 6
And this is already 1024 resolution, oh. God this is a great click, great follows.

1:45:02 - Leo Laporte
Look at all this. Oh, here's Windows Phone. I recognize that.

1:45:06 - Paris Martineau
The Windows Phone in 2012.

1:45:10 - Leo Laporte
Oh God, here's Halo 2's website. These are big companies.

1:45:15 - Speaker 6
They thought this looked good Well it did at the time, did they?

1:45:18 - Paris Martineau
At the time, people thought this was we were still figuring out how the web design was supposed to work.

1:45:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, but it doesn't look good.

1:45:26 - Speaker 6
I mean like that's because we're all in high-res, okay, no no, no, no, no, aesthetically, my friend. This is not this wouldn't look good, but like the style of the times though. It was. I guess, I guess, I don't know.

1:45:37 - Paris Martineau
I will say I bought a lot of web design books from the early 90s what do you think I've talked about before on here and this was like part of what they gave as examples of cutting edge design.

1:45:49 - Leo Laporte
Like these backgrounds, you have to have a wallpaper.

1:45:51 - Speaker 6
None of them looked great and there was no wissy wig. Remember, this is all HTML.

1:45:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, there's a young Taylor Smith with it Swift with an even younger Justin Bieber.

1:46:02 - Jeff Jarvis
There was good design. I'm going to go. My friend Joan Feeney ran. I'll put it in the discord Epicurious and it started Epicurious when I was there and there's an oral history here of Epicurious and it was well designed. There was good design. Here's Google.

1:46:17 - Leo Laporte
Google services. Oh God, these are the ones.

1:46:22 - Paris Martineau
Okay, and I've got one last thing, which is yes. The thing that inspired me to put this as my pick of the week I just put the link to the post in the chat is they posted this week a bunch of different early logos of Google in 1997. And I think they're quite quaint and we should incorporate them in my show.

1:46:43 - Leo Laporte
This is when Marissa Meyer was there and everybody said oh you know, you can really credit how good Google looks with Marissa, for how good everything looks on Google.

1:46:53 - Jeff Jarvis
She tested everything she tested it all.

1:46:56 - Leo Laporte
Oh boy, oh boy. Yeah, it is. We've come a long way. Do you think, though, that you know, 20 years from now, we'll look at our websites and say, oh, I can't believe we thought that was good. Hey, stop showing my website from 20 years ago, okay.

1:47:13 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I love it, leo Phil.

1:47:17 - Leo Laporte
This is 1997.

1:47:20 - Paris Martineau
A sound effect of the week.

1:47:21 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it was a quack.

1:47:24 - Paris Martineau
I love that you have a signature on your website.

1:47:27 - Leo Laporte
That's my actual. I still have that GIF in my folders somewhere. And then 284 accesses Look at that.

1:47:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Since the day before all those hits Leo hit counter. Look at that?

1:47:40 - Leo Laporte
Oh, why am I here myself? Why am I here? Is that?

1:47:45 - Speaker 6
me? I don't know. I just started your past posts coming back. Join the discord.

1:47:50 - Leo Laporte
Turn on again, oh my pick of the week is a little more modern. Get ready for all my get so nerdy and open source game. Nerdy about how? About learning how to use the source repository tool called get. You see it on GitHub at Git lab, but you can actually read it yourself and if you've always wanted to know how to use get, you can actually play this game Learn. It's actually really good. It's done very well. It visualizes how a get works and by the end of it, you will know how to use all the end of it.

You'll get get you'll get, get, get, get, get it. It is at, oh my getorg, jeff, your pick of the week.

1:48:48 - Jeff Jarvis
So this is a. This is a heartwarming story that turns into a tragedy. Oh, if you go to line 138, you're going to see that the entry into the Eurovision Song Contest this year for Finland is windows 95. Man, and you got to play the video. You got to play the whole video and this is this year's entry. This isn't. This is your entry. So go back to the front of the video. You want to play that now you?

1:49:13 - Leo Laporte
know you don't want to win the Eurovision Song Contest Cause if you win, then you have to host it next year.

1:49:19 - Jeff Jarvis
So this guy I think there's people those pants just came in on a wire. He puts them on.

1:49:26 - Paris Martineau
Honestly, this is a fit. I love it.

1:49:28 - Leo Laporte
He's wearing a windows night.

1:49:29 - Paris Martineau
People are wearing that in.

1:49:30 - Leo Laporte
Brooklyn. He's got. He's got flares, he's spinning around.

1:49:36 - Paris Martineau
It looks like he's going to set something on fire, and then, someone is covered in cards.

1:49:41 - Leo Laporte
And it looks like we're going to post it.

1:49:43 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't quite get it.

1:49:46 - Paris Martineau
It looks like pieces of denim strangely.

1:49:49 - Leo Laporte
Do you think because I think it's posted notes or something Is he going to fly in the air? What's?

1:49:53 - Jeff Jarvis
now, it's all he does, so here's that's. This is charming, this is what we want, but then the follow up is by the way the name of the band is escape ESC.

1:50:06 - Paris Martineau
Oh, that's, good. Yeah, pretty good.

1:50:07 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, all right. So you've given us something even better.

1:50:11 - Jeff Jarvis
No, no, it's sad. The next line, which you have to use Google translate for it. Yeah and finish yeah, the artist named windows 95 man might not qualify for Eurovision. Why?

1:50:22 - Leo Laporte
Because it's a brand and the Eurovision rules, oh, and Microsoft might object, right, so windows night.

1:50:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Back to the drawing board war.

1:50:31 - Leo Laporte
Maybe he should be Linux man instead. That's why, exactly, big old Finland, finland, it's where it came from. Yep, all right. And then John has put in a oh, this is for the after show.

1:50:50 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I remember this Secret, I remember this.

1:50:53 - Leo Laporte
Saturday night live. Tom broke a fake Tom Broca recording different outtakes for Gerald Ford's obituary, just in case, so they'd be ready to roll if President Ford should pass away. It's, I've seen it. It's very funny. Hey, we're, we're out of time. Jeff Jarvis has a train to catch. Paris Martin has a date with her.

1:51:12 - Paris Martineau
It's true, don't say it like that. That makes it sound sad. Definitely more compelling than sitting on the train to DC. I do want a full report next week on the vibes of the 7 30 pm Valentine's Day train from New York to DC.

1:51:31 - Leo Laporte
Sad my wife's not feeling well so I went to.

1:51:33 - Jeff Jarvis
Whole Foods this morning and I saw the string of men buying their their roses.

1:51:42 - Paris Martineau
Oh buddy. Time has passed.

1:51:44 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, wow, now I'm really feeling sad. Is there still time to get a fanny farmer box of chocolates? Maybe I have time. Jeff Jarvis is for the moment the director of the town Night Center, emeritus for entrepreneurial journalism at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism. Here we go, paris, newmark City University of you do that really well, oh yeah shit she you have the right timber, you got that. Go rado going there yeah it's good.

1:52:22 - Paris Martineau
It's good, it's because I'm a practiced ghost.

1:52:25 - Leo Laporte
Maybe you are a ghost, yeah.

1:52:28 - Paris Martineau
You guys have never met me in person. You have no idea.

1:52:30 - Jeff Jarvis
I have no idea, I can't. She doesn't appear in a mirror.

1:52:34 - Leo Laporte
I feel like we're old friends and yet we have never. But that happens a lot with me. Yeah, we do all this stuff virtually. I'm sure there are people at home feel the same way. It's that parasocial relationship or, as we call it, the Paris.

1:52:47 - Paris Martineau
Parasocial relationship.

1:52:50 - Leo Laporte
Jeff Jarvis is at Gutenberg.

1:52:53 - Jeff Jarvis
I've got it already. Oh, that too, yes, thank you. Oh, I gotta say that.

1:52:57 - Leo Laporte
Get the magazine book, which is really cool, the Gutenberg book, which is really cool. Stay there for other things, I guess. Is there other things there? Anything at the website? No, just the books.

1:53:09 - Jeff Jarvis
No, that's it.

1:53:10 - Leo Laporte
Just put your body is a blog is buzz machine dot com. So that's a good one to know. Paris Martina writes for the information. If you have a good tip for her, give her a message at signal to 677-978-655. You won't be the first room. Yeah, she's been getting some good tips there. Thank you, paris. Have a wonderful evening.

1:53:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Thank you, jeff, have a safe trip, thank you for getting me out of here, boss. I can make it to DC.

1:53:39 - Leo Laporte
Thank you all for joining us. We do twig every Wednesday right after Windows Weekly. We're at about 2 pm Pacific, 5 pm Eastern, 2200 UTC. You can watch us do it live on YouTube youtubecom slash twig. We start the stream exactly as the show starts and it exactly as the show ends. Of course, members of the club can watch full time in the discord. That's one of the benefits. After the fact, you can download a copy of the show from our website twigtv slash twig. You could also watch on YouTube. There's a whole YouTube channel dedicated to the videos from the show, or subscribe in your favorite podcast player. You'll get it automatically that way, the minute it's available. A very special shout out and thanks not just to our sponsors, but to the people who make this possible Our club members, the club Twitter, if you're not a member twigtv slash club twig. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time on this week in Google. Bye, bye and happy Valentine's Day for those of you who celebrate.