Windows Weekly Episode 789 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show
Leo Laporte (00:00:01):
It's time for windows weekly. Paul Thurrott here. Mary Jo Foley is here. Of course, there's a new version of windows 11. We'll talk about that new version of Visio visual studio as well. Some layoffs. I'm sorry to say. In the modern life experiences team and finally Xbox ultimate game passes for families too. It's all coming up next on windows, weekly podcasts you love
Mary Jo Foley (00:00:27):
From people you trust.
Leo Laporte (00:00:30):
This is,
Leo Laporte (00:00:37):
This is windows weekly with Paul Thora and Mary Jo Foley episode 789 recorded Wednesday, August 10th, 2022 made in raccoon city. This episode of windows weekly is brought to you by unify meeting from MIMO monitors. Unify simplifies your work life by combining your favorite video conferencing solutions into one reliable universal user interface. Visit unify meeting.com and enter the code WW for 25% off a year's subscription. Or use the same code to get 25% off any of Nemo's seven inch displays and by secure works, are you ready for inevitable cyber threats, secure works, detects ever-changing threats and defends against them with a combination of security analytics and human intelligence. Visit secureworks.com/TWiT to get a free trial of contagious XDR it's time for windows weekly. Hello dozers. Hello winners. The show where we cover the latest news from Microsoft with Paul Thra little Paul walnuts thra.com. He's in he's in Mexico this week. Sorry.
Paul Thurrott (00:01:50):
Ola Leo
Leo Laporte (00:01:51):
Ola. Paul <laugh> or is it pronounced hall?
Paul Thurrott (00:01:54):
Exactly.
Leo Laporte (00:01:55):
<Laugh> Mary Jo Foley. She's in New York, New York. All about microsoft.com. Hello two. Hello? You said it was 99 degrees when you left Paul last night in
Paul Thurrott (00:02:08):
Newark in
Leo Laporte (00:02:09):
Newark. Is it that hot? Mary Jo today?
Mary Jo Foley (00:02:12):
Real feel yesterday in New York was 105. Yeah,
Paul Thurrott (00:02:17):
It was horrific. It was when, and I got in was so hot. They couldn't the AC couldn't keep up with it. So, wow. They had all the windows shut. Everyone was sweating their butts off. They kept saying, look, we know, we're sorry, here's some water, but we sat there for half an hour before we got, you know, it took, I think, half an hour in the air before the, you know, cabin finally called down. Wow. But man, what a, what a horror show that was wow. In Newark
Mary Jo Foley (00:02:40):
And the minute he left Newark, the water main busted there and what
Leo Laporte (00:02:45):
There's
Mary Jo Foley (00:02:45):
Coincidentally. Yeah, it was a giant water main bus with like a hundred thousand people with no water yesterday while it was 105. Oh
Paul Thurrott (00:02:52):
That's because the only thing worse than 99 degrees is 99 degrees without water.
Leo Laporte (00:02:57):
Oh my golly. Good. Gosh. Yeah. It's
Paul Thurrott (00:03:00):
Been a plane headed in Mexico city that blasted the water main because they couldn't get out there fast
Leo Laporte (00:03:04):
Enough. Yeah, no didn't wow. Yeah. Crazy. Let me adjust your lower third to accommodate
Paul Thurrott (00:03:12):
Your, let me say, it's gonna be low seventies here every day and I could not be perhaps it's
Leo Laporte (00:03:17):
Nice. Cause you're at altitude. That's right. Yeah. You're not. I mean, while much of Mexico does get very, very hot in the summer. Mexico city is always relative
Paul Thurrott (00:03:27):
Mexico. So we just did this thing where we looked at climates of various cities we go to and most of 'em you Boston, New York, Washington, DC, Paris Barcelona is this curve in the middle of the year where the temperature goes up in the, and the differences between the highest and the lowest is big. Mexico city is not quite a flat line, but it's like this. Yeah. Low seventies to almost 80 and then high forties to high eight fifties at night, you know, it's nice. It's so consistent year round. People are always like, oh, it's gonna be really hot because it's the summer. And it's, it's cooler now than it was
Leo Laporte (00:03:58):
Able. And you have good internet there. I, I see. I mean it
Paul Thurrott (00:04:01):
Looks okay internet. I would say
Leo Laporte (00:04:04):
You're not clicking or nothing. You do. You're working.
Paul Thurrott (00:04:07):
Yeah, no, I put it on a wire, you know, just in case that's good. My family has left
Leo Laporte (00:04:12):
<Laugh> so I guess your son's there with you this time. Last, last time it was your wife and daughter and and it's nice to have a place in Mexico. Isn't it? That's kind of cool. You just kind of come down. How long's that flight? Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:04:26):
About four hours. Four and a half hours.
Leo Laporte (00:04:27):
Yeah. So it's a bit of a flight, but still.
Paul Thurrott (00:04:30):
Yeah, but it's just, you know, it's one leg. It's not, you
Leo Laporte (00:04:33):
Know, it's Newark direct. Yeah. Not bad. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and how far from the airport are you in Mexico city? Long.
Paul Thurrott (00:04:39):
20 minutes.
Leo Laporte (00:04:40):
Oh, nice by Uber
Paul Thurrott (00:04:41):
Whoop. Yep.
Leo Laporte (00:04:42):
Right into town.
Paul Thurrott (00:04:44):
It's unbelievable
Leo Laporte (00:04:45):
Into Roman Norte. <Laugh> well,
Paul Thurrott (00:04:49):
I don't know. Yeah. It's
Leo Laporte (00:04:50):
Unbelievable. You're happy. And I saw, if you don't follow Paul's Instagram, you should, unless you don't wanna see millions of pictures of food and booze. But it be
Paul Thurrott (00:05:01):
A lot of that. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:05:02):
Oh man. I looked at your breakfast. I thought I wish I were there right now. That looked fabulous. <Laugh> fabulous.
Paul Thurrott (00:05:10):
So it's not horrible. Yeah. I was telling our son, you know, five minute walk from our house, our three of the best restaurants I've ever been to in my life. It's really crazy.
Leo Laporte (00:05:19):
Wow. He's is that restaurant? It looked like it was almost like across the street from you.
Paul Thurrott (00:05:25):
<Laugh> the one we had breakfast at is a two minute walk on the same block that we live on. Wow. The one we, excuse me. The dinner place we had last night is a five minute walk. It's two blocks away. So that that's the corner of the block where it's to the left. Just right down the street there.
Leo Laporte (00:05:39):
Look at this. I'm so jealous. Was that your dinner, your breakfast little eggs?
Paul Thurrott (00:05:45):
No, that was no. That was that was Wao Ranchero. That was my, my son and Dar mark had
Leo Laporte (00:05:49):
That wife look at that bacon and eggs. That's yours. I could
Paul Thurrott (00:05:52):
Tell Wao Contino
Leo Laporte (00:05:54):
Canino is that bacon? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> oh man, man. I'm hungry. Just looking at this <laugh> and then this is your restaurant. The other one?
Paul Thurrott (00:06:01):
No, that's just the place that's across the street from the restaurant. It's just just the pink.
Leo Laporte (00:06:05):
I just like the Pinkville it's just
Paul Thurrott (00:06:06):
Kind of a,
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:07):
Wait is bacon really called Kino?
Paul Thurrott (00:06:10):
Well, with, to it's tocino is bacon
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:13):
Tocino pond is I was thinking like Contoso.
Paul Thurrott (00:06:16):
Oh no, no, no. It's called con a separate
Leo Laporte (00:06:18):
Word. Looks like really good bacon. I'll be honest with you. It was tasty. So
Paul Thurrott (00:06:24):
Jealous. I haven't really had a lot of bad meals here,
Leo Laporte (00:06:26):
You know? So jealous.
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:27):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:06:28):
So good. But you know what? In the, in the bad news department, it was really inexpensive.
Leo Laporte (00:06:32):
<Laugh> how much just that did breakfast for three.
Paul Thurrott (00:06:35):
Do you really wanna know? You don't wanna know?
Leo Laporte (00:06:37):
I wanna know
Paul Thurrott (00:06:38):
It was $15 with tip.
Leo Laporte (00:06:40):
Nice. Really nice. Yeah. That's really nice. Well so we're all happy for you.
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:47):
Yeah, exactly sure. We are.
Leo Laporte (00:06:51):
Let's get right to the good news from Microsoft. <Laugh> layoffs.
Paul Thurrott (00:06:57):
Don't
Leo Laporte (00:06:57):
Don't that time they do it every year. This time don't they? It feels like,
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:01):
Yeah they do. But it feels like this is kind of trickling out, which makes it feel,
Leo Laporte (00:07:07):
Yeah. Usually they reorg do the quarter, the year end fiscal report. And then
Paul Thurrott (00:07:11):
Yeah, but this year is exacerbated by the conditions that are occurring with the economy. And what we're seeing across big tech is slowing of hiring halt of hiring, getting rid of some headcount. These guys hired incredibly during the pandemic. And I think they realize now maybe that was a mistake. And just, this is kind of a Mary Jo thing. I think she has a lot more information about this than I do. But Leo, you met at least I think all four of those guys from Microsoft that that little meet
Leo Laporte (00:07:39):
We had in that was Seattle.
Paul Thurrott (00:07:40):
I think, I think they, no, no. I think those guys were all part of this.
Leo Laporte (00:07:43):
What?
Paul Thurrott (00:07:44):
I think they were all laid off.
Leo Laporte (00:07:45):
Oh no.
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:46):
All of them were,
Paul Thurrott (00:07:47):
I think so modern
Leo Laporte (00:07:48):
Life experience. What is the I've heard from? Oh, they were, they loved Microsoft.
Paul Thurrott (00:07:54):
They were so they were the nicest guys
Leo Laporte (00:07:57):
And they were so happy.
Paul Thurrott (00:07:59):
Yep.
Leo Laporte (00:08:00):
One of
Paul Thurrott (00:08:00):
'Em I don't want, I don't. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:08:02):
One of 'em yeah, no name. We won't say names. One of 'em I think was already transitioning to another team. So maybe he leaped like a
Paul Thurrott (00:08:08):
Frog from, I'm not a hundred percent sure about the whole group, but so
Leo Laporte (00:08:12):
What is the modern life experiences team?
Mary Jo Foley (00:08:15):
What is that? Yeah. So in I'll give you the backstory of this 2018. Microsoft had this idea that they knew they had screwed up with consumers and they wanted to try to make a comeback with them. So they hatched this idea called modern life use of Medi became the head of this team. And the idea was we're gonna field a bunch of consumer things that we think will get consumers to reengage with us. It was very prosumer focused. So not like gaming stuff. It was more like productivity type things for consumers. Okay. Cut to this week. There's a subset of that team called MLX modern life experiences. This is the team that was responsible for family safety, you know, the parental control thing, mile IQ, which is a product Microsoft got when they bought a company called mobile data labs, I think. And it was, it would let you keep track of your mileage. And then it also is responsible for what,
Paul Thurrott (00:09:16):
The money in Excel, right.
Mary Jo Foley (00:09:17):
Money in Excel, right. Money in Excel an add in to Excel that let people use it like a personal finance management kind of thing. So that's all this MLX team. So yesterday I believe it was yesterday. Microsoft announced to the, to a couple hundred people or maybe 150 or so, you know what we're dissolving this team. So there's some surprises here and some non surprises mile IQ. I wasn't surprised about because Microsoft had quietly sold that company back to the guys who sold it to them last year and interesting had discontinued it. Yeah. that was kind of like a little hidden thing. Like nobody was asking about it. And then the other day somebody sent me a link and they said, you know, my IQ, they, they sold that off. And I was like, oh, that's weird. Okay. And then the, the money in Excel, we knew from a couple months ago, cuz Microsoft sent out emails to people who are using that, that they were gonna discontinue that completely next year. So it feels like the organizational structure is catching up with them already kinda weeding through this stuff. Right. And the one mystery thing is family safety. I don't think they're gonna kill that because earlier this year they made family safety and inbox app for windows 11. That's right. So I think they laid off some of the team, maybe some of the people who are doing backend services for family safety, but I think they're gonna keep family safety around
Paul Thurrott (00:10:39):
Family safety. I was saying to Mary Jo earlier, it has to date back to at least windows Vista.
Mary Jo Foley (00:10:46):
Yeah. I think it does
Paul Thurrott (00:10:47):
Actually. It was probably part of that, you know, windows live, wave where they were, you know, they can't went into that eventually. Yeah. You mentioned use of Medi I bet. Use of Medi ran the part of the company. He who made this originally back in the day. I'm pretty sure he was there. And it's kind of gone back and forth. It's been in windows. It's Spinata windows it's of, mostly in the cloud. Then there's a client now and you know, there's they have mobile clients. There's there aren't Android iOS too.
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:17):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:11:18):
Yeah. I think we to this family safety guy, I remember him. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:23):
Ah, that what Paul said. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:11:24):
So, and I think that, but he was about to move, so I hope he moved in the Nick in the Nick of time.
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:31):
And then Nick of time,
Leo Laporte (00:11:32):
He, you know what, it's sad cuz he really enjoyed working on family safety. Like he really dug it. Yep.
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:39):
Yeah. So the way, right. This was discovered business insider found a woman who was on one of these projects who posted on LinkedIn, Hey, my whole team just got cut yesterday. Right? And then if you dig into her post on LinkedIn, you see all these other people saying I'm open for work. I'm open for work. This is the whole team like posting. I need a job. Like Microsoft said to them, you can either take severance or you can get a new job inside the company. So you have a choice. Like you can leave Microsoft or find a new position inside. But you know, right now Microsoft's kind of slowing, hiring in a lot of these areas where these people would be a good fit. They, they announced they were slowing hiring and windows and office, the places they are not slowing hiring. Those were first to go. They get a job. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:12:20):
It, it was kind of the client side, part of Microsoft that it was the slowness first.
Mary Jo Foley (00:12:26):
Right. And that makes sense. When you think about their earnings last quarter, right? Like windows consumer was off. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> advertising was off Xbox gaming was off. So all the consumer businesses were down. So if you're Amy Hood, the CFO and you're looking at this, you're like, know we should make cuts consumer because that's the part of the business, this floor,
Paul Thurrott (00:12:47):
Which is fascinating. We've kind of made this debate a lot here on the show. And I think Mary Jo and I privately have talked about this a lot. You know, this notion that Microsoft should have a stronger consumer presence, but they don't, they, and it seems like a natural fit. It, it's one of those things that makes sense. When you just talk about it, we, you, we use these products at work. Of course we'll bring, you know, we'll bring those skills home or whatever. And it just, it really has never panned out. They, you know, when I did that programming window series, I revisited that period of time where they made such a huge investment mm-hmm <affirmative> in all of these digital media products and services and they really went all in. It was dirt when zoom was still an ongoing concern. Yep. And man, they, they threw everything at it and they didn't honestly it amounted to just about nothing. I think the only thing that's kind of slid through. Yeah. The entire time has been Xbox. Does this mean Microsoft has given up on consumer, like they're finally been there. Okay. Could you, did you have, I, you can.
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:49):
I can't really say that. Exactly. so they don't think they've given up on consumer. Right? They, they think they're refocusing the business on different parts of consumer where they're stronger. So Xbox is, is, is an obvious place. Right? Of course. They're gonna keep going with Xbox. They've had success there, but they've also had pretty good success with like Microsoft 365 family and home subscription services. So they're still continuing to invest there. Well, they,
Paul Thurrott (00:14:17):
So what's the number of that though. Sorry.
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:19):
I know, I forget it, it, I forget
Paul Thurrott (00:14:21):
It's it's in the tens of millions, right? 47, 50 million somewhere in there.
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:25):
Right. And it grows every quarter. Right? Like every quarter they announce a new number. And it's higher. It's not growing like gangbusters, but it's growing. Right. The other thing they're proud about and investing a lot in, as we know is advertising and this quarter advertising was off. But up before that, the past couple quarters advertising had been doing better for them. And the advertising's all connected in with Bing and MSN and, and Microsoft start and all these things where they're, they're connecting ads.
Paul Thurrott (00:14:55):
Nobody wants to use.
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:56):
I know,
Paul Thurrott (00:14:57):
I know, like to, to count that in a consumer product line is kind of insane. We have these products and services that we force you to use, even when you make other default changes and look, it's a booming business.
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:09):
I know.
Paul Thurrott (00:15:10):
I know. I mean, it's kind of a weird
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:12):
It.
Paul Thurrott (00:15:13):
I I'm
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:14):
Always else. I okay. Way to hear this one though. So I started, I went on their job site because we know they've been slowing hiring. And if you search for certain things, they're still posting a lot of jobs. Like anything with AI, they've got a lot of jobs still available. Yeah. They've got lots and quantum because they don't actually have any products there yet. Right. Sure. And they wanna be successful in quantum and teams, consumer. They are throwing money into that thing. Like there's no tomorrow. Right. So teams, consumer, you know, they've got a team's icon built into windows 11 on the task bar, and they're trying to get you to use teams chat in your home scenarios because you're used to it at work. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:15:54):
<Laugh> I feel like the Microsoft brand is considered old fashioned by most people, especially young. Yeah. And that apple and Facebook and Google and Amazon are kind of hip and cold for whatever reason, the Microsoft isn't, you know, and I know everyone will always use Xbox, but look at how they brand that it's not Microsoft Xbox. Right. It's Xbox, right. Xbox is its own thing. And the Xbox sheen doesn't reflect on the rest of Microsoft in any way that I can see, unfortunately. Yep. I, I said to Mary Jo, I think before the show they re, and maybe you don't know cars enough, maybe this didn't mean anything to you, but there're almost like an olds mobile or Buick brand in the sense that, well, Oldsmobile's gone <laugh> but they, they used to be cool maybe. Yeah. But now they're just seen as old fashioned and, and dead in the case of Oldsmobile, but, and someone out there will say, but yeah, but Google or B York makes this one thing that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's the point. You're the only one that knows about it. And it's, that's not where, when people are interested in cars, that's not where their heads are at by and large, you know? Right. And I think, you know, it's, it, it's just unfortunate. They, they have such resources and reach and they just never have really connected with consumers. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:17:08):
And I, I don't, I don't, I don't really can't explain it, but all I can do is watch it, I guess.
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:13):
Yeah. You know, what they feel like they can't give up on it because they feel like if they do concede that, then they'll lose a generation of people who won't grow up to become Microsoft business customers. Right. Like, that's the thinking about why not to throw in the towel you
Paul Thurrott (00:17:26):
Think they already have? I think that when you have kids using Chromebooks in schools
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:30):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:17:30):
Yeah. And then going off to college, I think that transition is already happening, you know? Yeah. And it, it, it, look, they may end up on windows, computers or max, and that's fine, but they're probably gonna be using Google services, like Gmail and docs, et cetera. Yeah. And I, I don't, I don't think you get those guys back.
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:47):
I know. So if you look at what they just are, quote, repositioning, killing, whatever you wanna call it. They took away Myla Q. They took away money in Excel. Right. So these are services that they launched as kind of like adjunct services to make these, their subscriptions more interesting, more successful, give you more carrots to subscribe to things right there. And family safety is an app for windows 11. So they may keep that. But if, if you try to figure out, like, where are they focusing on consumer right now, teams. Right. which they've got that
Paul Thurrott (00:18:23):
What
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:23):
I know designer, you know, that thing we talked about recently because walking cat found some leaks, they've got like a designer tool for people that is more about
Paul Thurrott (00:18:32):
Which, what, like,
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:33):
Kinda like can solution kinda like Canva. Yep. So for people who wanna design brochures and, you know, Instagram posts and Facebook posts to make them look beautiful, you could use this tool if, and when the several launches, right. <Laugh> maybe
Paul Thurrott (00:18:46):
Would think mic or it's crazy. Apple used to sell something that was like a, like a postcard maker or something. What didn't they? Yeah. I mean, like, it's, it's like why we don't use you for this kind of thing. Like I just don't. I
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:58):
Know, I know.
Paul Thurrott (00:18:59):
I
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:59):
Don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I wish somebody from Microsoft, Chris Capella use of Medi somebody would come forward and say, okay, you want us to explain where we're going with like our, our consumer strategy. Here's where we're going, but they don't even wanna talk about it that way. Right. They wanna pretend, I mean, that consumer and enterprise are just this holistic thing and there's no difference. And when they're building for one is like good for the other and they don't wanna talk about them as two separate things. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:19:28):
So I'll tell you right now that teams for consumer and teams for business are two separate things than they may have the same name, but they don't share a lot of the same features. I mean,
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:37):
Or users not
Paul Thurrott (00:19:38):
The same product <laugh> yeah. Or users. Exactly.
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:40):
Right. Yeah. Yep. I know. So, yeah, it's kind of a mystery where they're going with this. I tried to find out, effuse of me is getting a new job. You're getting a new job and you're getting a new job, but they, I couldn't find out if he's got a new title, a new job or any of that. I don't know. Interesting. They're very, very closed mouth about that whole modern life thing. And they've never really talked publicly about it. They've talked partners privately about it. Sometimes that's mentioned in job posts, but like there's, they, they have never come out and said, guys, here's what we're trying to do to revitalize our brand with consumers. They've never said that before publicly never had an event, never done anything with that. I think they just wanna try to make the magic happen and then say, oh, look, look at all these good consumer things we get going on over here, but what are those good consumer things? I don't know, like widgets,
Paul Thurrott (00:20:33):
I widgets. I maybe it might. So, okay. So we've we've and I, I guess I have been very critical of widgets. I've used specific examples. I will say, I think I might have said this maybe earlier, but in writing the book and going over it again, that, that service, if you wanna call it, that has improved dramatically as far as the quality of the stories and so forth. Yeah. so that's good. I don't personally want a, a newsfeed in windows, but there it is. Some people do it's duplicated in the cloud with Ms. And start or whatever they call it. Yep. Okay. That's, it's fine. You know, I, I think pro I think Microsoft edge has seen a certain level of success. They're double digit usage share now mm-hmm <affirmative> and yeah, I mean, part of that is bundling whatever, but the reality is this product is just about as good as Chrome and has all those advantages and they've added features, which I've criticized, but some people I'm sure like that stuff, so, yeah. That's fine. But, and, and you mentioned Microsoft 365 family and personal. Absolutely. and now I'm drawing a blank. I mean, it's kind of, as far as I can go with it, I don't know what else to point to. I know,
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:36):
I mean, I mean, in the discord, you know, in the discord, some people are saying, what about, you know, AR VR, metaverse, whatever you wanna call it. Hololens is an enterprise played now, period. That's the end of that story, right? Yeah. Like it's not gonna become a consumer brand. It's
Paul Thurrott (00:21:52):
Not, if you are interested in virtual reality or just in gaming in general, I should say there is a five and a half hour long interview with John Palmer, the co-founder of its software on or YouTube. That's incredible. I watched the whole thing. Wow. It's like listening to an audio book and he, he goes through everything, but he, of course was an early player in Oculus rift was the CTO there. They were bought by Facebook. He met a, he surprisingly talks very fondly of this company and what they're doing. And I think the reality is that for consumers virtual reality, and probably eventually artificial or augmented reality today is Oculus mm-hmm <affirmative> and tomorrow will be Oculus and apple and Microsoft did this windows virtual reality thing that never, or windows mixed reality, sorry. That never really went anywhere. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, you know, I guess if you're a PC gamer, this I'm sure this stuff there, I'm sure those headset says work with different games from different companies, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't think this is where anyone says that. And this is another great example of Microsoft not being able to take advantage of the Xbox brand, enter a market, that they should be a player in we're an earlier, an early adopter or an early provider of this kind of technology. Yeah. They haven't been able to turn what they did in haul ends into anything successful in the consumer side at all. And this is, I think this is just another example of the same thing.
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:15):
Yeah. People are asking in the discord, if you could give a link to the video that you referenced.
Paul Thurrott (00:23:21):
Yeah. So actually it's on my blog. So if you go to thra.com on the forum link over in the left or the right. Sorry, I can't speak today apparently. It's you'll see, John Carmack let's look for John Carmack. It's incredible. How do
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:33):
You spell that? I'll I'll John C a
Paul Thurrott (00:23:35):
RM, a C K C a R M a
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:37):
Carmack. Okay.
Paul Thurrott (00:23:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I'll post that in the he talks, he goes through every single game, big game that they made all the generations. It's it's as good as any audio book about this type of topic. It's
Leo Laporte (00:23:50):
Incredible. Yeah. Good. I wanna watch it too.
Paul Thurrott (00:23:55):
<Laugh> it's great. Yeah. I literally watched the entire thing.
Leo Laporte (00:23:58):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:23:59):
Like a goon <laugh>. Cause that's what I am.
Mary Jo Foley (00:24:04):
It's in your wheelhouse.
Paul Thurrott (00:24:06):
Yeah. And it's just touches on so many things. I really care about guys that, you know, he's a genius and I listen for me. I'm sorry. I don't mean to go off on a complete segue, but I had an amiga so I understood what good gaming meant and all that kind of stuff. And this guy took the IBM PC, which had no gaming chops whatsoever, horrific tearing of graphics. If he tried to do anything with it and turned it into a gaming machine that was better than a multiprocessor amiga and I'm sorry, but he's a genius. Like it's his contributions to gaming, but really technology are I just,
Leo Laporte (00:24:43):
Yeah. Some amazing codes. Some of the things he did were just mind boggling. It's a shame that incredible PC gaming is over, but you know, he <laugh> for a brief period of time.
Paul Thurrott (00:24:53):
Well, but you know what though? So, but he wants to apply what he, his talent, his skill to things like artificial general intelligence, virtual reality, obviously augmented reality.
Leo Laporte (00:25:03):
He's too old. Forget
Paul Thurrott (00:25:04):
It. Nuclear
Leo Laporte (00:25:05):
His day's.
Paul Thurrott (00:25:06):
I know. I don't know. I, so you watch this, watch this it, I will. It's very interesting. He speaks very open.
Leo Laporte (00:25:11):
He's ambitious. I know he's ambitious, but
Paul Thurrott (00:25:15):
You know, he friends with the on Musk's got a space company.
Leo Laporte (00:25:17):
That's that's why forget it. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:25:21):
I've just,
Leo Laporte (00:25:21):
This is what happens. Watch it's like Albert Einstein, you invent relativity at the age of 22 and it's all downhill from there.
Paul Thurrott (00:25:29):
Wow. Okay. <Laugh> but he had an unprecedented run of technological advances.
Leo Laporte (00:25:34):
I think it all ended when he when he went he left was it, was it ID for for MEA for, for Oculus?
Paul Thurrott (00:25:44):
Well, he went to Oculus first, I think in Oculus was bought by Facebook, which became better.
Leo Laporte (00:25:48):
And then, and he stayed.
Paul Thurrott (00:25:51):
I, well, he's only there. I think it's like a once a day, once a week kind of a thing for him
Leo Laporte (00:25:54):
Is what it is. Well, I think, you know, look, it's not a knock. It's just, when you get older, you get other interests. You, you find out about girls and forget programming. <Laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:04):
You find out about beer and you forget everything,
Leo Laporte (00:26:06):
Everything else. And you know, once you start, once you own a rocket company, I doubt you're doing much coding. I'm just saying, yeah,
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:13):
<Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:26:14):
Just saying, look, I, I think he has contributions to make that's.
Leo Laporte (00:26:17):
I will watch it. I know I Revere him as you do. I do. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> how
Paul Thurrott (00:26:24):
Do we get, he speaks a lot about that aging thing. One of the, he says is when he feels like he can't make contributions to advanced programming of the future type stuff. Yeah. He's probably just gonna go back to making games, you know, like he's, he's like all he's
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:38):
Thing
Leo Laporte (00:26:38):
Games. Yeah. Right. Was Cutler programming well into middle age.
Paul Thurrott (00:26:44):
Oh my God. Well, past, middle age,
Leo Laporte (00:26:46):
Very
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:46):
Like recently on
Paul Thurrott (00:26:48):
Xbox when they did the Xbox, the Xbox one architecture, which is based on HyperV was done by him and a, you know, not him, you know, alone, but that was, he was in charge of that. That was his, he
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:58):
Was in his seventies, right?
Paul Thurrott (00:26:59):
Yeah. Yeah. The NT, the architect of windows NT in 1993, flash forward, 20 years later, 25 years later, whatever that was. He was still making incredible.
Leo Laporte (00:27:09):
Does he have a rocket company though?
Mary Jo Foley (00:27:11):
No, he
Paul Thurrott (00:27:12):
Does. But he does like to drive fast cars. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:27:13):
That's
Mary Jo Foley (00:27:14):
Yes, he does the car. He's very famous for that. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:27:16):
That's another thing these guys all have in common, you know, Carmack always had, you know, for our reason Lamborghini.
Mary Jo Foley (00:27:21):
Yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:27:24):
No, I shouldn't, you know, this is rude of me to say that.
Paul Thurrott (00:27:28):
No, no, I understand why. No, no, I get it. And, and you're right, for sure. I mean, but I, I guess the only thing that made me kind of react a little bit to that was he literally addresses that exact topic it's worth. I wanna watch listening to him. Yeah. His part of the interview is really interesting.
Leo Laporte (00:27:43):
So yeah. Good. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and all because Microsoft laid off its modern life experiences team <laugh>, it's kind of amazing. Well,
Paul Thurrott (00:27:51):
There's always John Carmack. That's
Leo Laporte (00:27:52):
All I'm saying. <Laugh> yeah. There's
Paul Thurrott (00:27:56):
He never made any enterprise products, so, you know,
Leo Laporte (00:27:58):
No, that's true.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:01):
That guy,
Leo Laporte (00:28:02):
He reminds me a little of young bill gates though. I mean, in the, in, in the, you know, he like gates who said, I'm gonna do this in fewer lines of code and was too fewer lines of code, fewer lines of code. Sure. He was able to do and code things that everybody said, oh, you can't do that.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:17):
So
Leo Laporte (00:28:18):
Quite amazing.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:18):
Two things, two things to that one when he listened to him speak, he'll really remind me of bill gates. Yeah. And two, I would say was, and gates for all of their brilliance when it came to programming had actually very short runs. They did. Whereas Carmack did this for decades. Yeah. At a very high level. Yeah. And maybe somewhat unique in that capacity. I mean, he is,
Leo Laporte (00:28:39):
Well, there you go. He could be the exception that proves the rule. Absolutely.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:43):
You know, was, was a burst to brilliance that today, when you look at what he did in the context of what's happening with circuitry and components, it's laughable. I mean, you know, it was so long ago, it was incredible for the day. Yeah. But
Leo Laporte (00:28:54):
He gates, there's some excuses, he got almost failed plane wreck, which caused him brain damage.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:59):
Right? No, I mean, no, you're right. And, and yeah, Rocky raccoon there probably could have gone a few,
Leo Laporte (00:29:05):
Few more years yeah. Case for sure. But I mean, I fell into a pile of money and couldn't get out. Yeah. Yeah. And these things happen
Paul Thurrott (00:29:13):
And the Mac happened without him and I don't think he wanted anything to do with that.
Leo Laporte (00:29:16):
<Laugh> yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:29:18):
Kind of the end of that.
Mary Jo Foley (00:29:19):
No, he just posted recently about playing pickle ball. I don't know if you guys thought that he,
Leo Laporte (00:29:23):
Well, you know, he was a great pains to say I, I played pickleball back in the nineties, I was into pickleball long before it was popular pickleball. I read that article was invented in Bainbridge island. No, in Bainbridge island. And, and he was wow. In 1995 by a dad. Okay. And and gates who, you know, remember the gates family used to have these Olympia ads, family, Olympia ads
Paul Thurrott (00:29:48):
Has all normal family job.
Leo Laporte (00:29:50):
Yes, yes. Right. It's like the Kennedy's with their touch football mm-hmm <affirmative> and and I'm not at all surprised that they they discovered pickleball and invented just down the road and played it in
Paul Thurrott (00:30:01):
Midnight. Sure. When it was Kate. So he copied it and then yeah, he
Leo Laporte (00:30:03):
Stole it and Microsoft brings you world of
Paul Thurrott (00:30:07):
Here's a good idea. Let me take it.
Leo Laporte (00:30:09):
Yeah. Age of pickleball, you know what, after I read that article, you know what I did, I'm embarrassed to say,
Paul Thurrott (00:30:15):
You look up, you play
Leo Laporte (00:30:16):
Pickleball. I told, I told Lisa, we should play pickleball. <Laugh> I AirPlayed to the big screen TV in the living room, a had to play pickle ball. Yep. And then order to pickle ball set, which has since been sitting. Wow. Wow, man. On the, in the mud room waiting for us to take it somewhere we have.
Paul Thurrott (00:30:33):
So gates is still an influencer. So he still got
Leo Laporte (00:30:35):
It. He's still got it next
Mary Jo Foley (00:30:36):
Up bridge.
Leo Laporte (00:30:38):
Yeah. No, I've often thought I should play bridge,
Paul Thurrott (00:30:42):
But for people who think monopoly is too simple and not time consuming enough, we have this other game called bridge.
Leo Laporte (00:30:47):
Might like yeah. Yeah, no gates was gates was early in, on in the pickle ball thing. Yeah. I saw that. I
Paul Thurrott (00:30:56):
Like so many other things in life. He was at the leading edge
Leo Laporte (00:30:58):
Leading, cutting edge
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:00):
In the bowl. Okay. One more thing. Since you mentioned Bainbridge island. Yes. Things invented in the Seattle area. Yes. For 20 points. Leo cranium. Do you know this whole thing? The game cranium,
Leo Laporte (00:31:11):
The game cranium. You get a little clay brain. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:15):
Richard Tate co inventor. Cranium just died. Oh, this week I believe. Oh he also, you used to work at Microsoft, right?
Leo Laporte (00:31:23):
Did he? Oh, I think that's interesting.
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:26):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:31:27):
Was
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:28):
Cranium. You guys start talking about things. Yeah. Cranium. Still a thing. Yeah,
Leo Laporte (00:31:32):
Sure. Look, here's a cranium cafe. Yeah. Hasbro purchased cranium at cran cranium. Yep.
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:39):
He used to work at Microsoft
Leo Laporte (00:31:40):
77 million with Alexander and Richard Tate.
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:44):
<Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:31:45):
Wow.
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:46):
Okay. We went down a giant rabbit hole on this. Wow. But <laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:31:50):
That was all I don't. If I ever played, I don't know if I ever played. Creamy's
Mary Jo Foley (00:31:55):
Fine. My
Paul Thurrott (00:31:55):
Favorite thing about this is we have literally concluded one topic.
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:00):
I know topic. That was the best topic.
Leo Laporte (00:32:03):
Anything I, so we're gonna get to windows in a little bit, but first <laugh> let's play cranium. Wonder if there's wonder if there's an online cranium. Is it like a,
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:13):
Was a pretty fun game.
Leo Laporte (00:32:15):
Outrageous fun. You cruise around the board. Completing activities and four color coded cavity. Oh, no wonder you like at categories. Creative cat. <Laugh> data heads, star, performer, and word worm. Huh? Huh? I was wrong about oh no. Is that where Theran yeah, there's a, there's a clay cranium in there. I don't know. Why did you, do you remember that part?
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:41):
Kind of?
Paul Thurrott (00:32:42):
I'm not sure I've ever played cranium.
Leo Laporte (00:32:44):
Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:45):
Okay. You guys haven't lived. You haven't played cranium.
Leo Laporte (00:32:48):
When do you play cranium and with whom? Your neighbors? When is there Aran? No.
Paul Thurrott (00:32:53):
No, whatever
Leo Laporte (00:32:55):
Family, family.
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:56):
It's a family. Family gathering.
Leo Laporte (00:32:57):
Yeah. It's a family game.
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:58):
We do a lot of board game things as a family thing. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:33:01):
I like always the I'm always the one that mixes the family game time thing, you know? It's like, are you guys wanna play Yachty or something? Like, no, I want do something
Leo Laporte (00:33:09):
Fun stuff.
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:11):
I knows. We always play family board games. He wants to do first person shooters. We don't
Paul Thurrott (00:33:16):
Have time for what's wrong, but
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:18):
I don't know. That's what happens.
Leo Laporte (00:33:19):
So you didn't sit around with the kids and play monopoly when they were little or anything like that.
Paul Thurrott (00:33:24):
Yeah. When they were little I'm talking about now. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:33:26):
Yeah. Now I wanna like have a neighborhood family game night where we all play play games. Wow. That'd be fun. Call me crazy.
Paul Thurrott (00:33:37):
Yeah. I'll bring a monopoly for downstairs to see what the neighbors think. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:33:41):
Let
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:41):
Me take, I just play cornhole two weeks ago. I'm just gonna say the
Leo Laporte (00:33:45):
Worst named game in history. It is
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:48):
Not a, but a fun game. Also we played for used, should
Leo Laporte (00:33:50):
Used called beanbag, but then that's
Paul Thurrott (00:33:53):
A better name. My name's fine.
Leo Laporte (00:33:54):
Some fraternity brother,
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:56):
A very
Leo Laporte (00:33:56):
Better name. So it'd be funny if we called it corn hole
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:59):
And
Paul Thurrott (00:34:00):
It stopped. And for some reason the people like this game thought nothing of that and said, sure,
Leo Laporte (00:34:03):
You can watch it on ESPN now.
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:06):
Oh, there's tournaments.
Paul Thurrott (00:34:07):
Well, ESPN eight. Yeah. There's
Leo Laporte (00:34:09):
Ocho. The Ocho. <Laugh> the Ocho. They had the tournament. Did you see last weekend? They had the masters of Excel. They did the little half hour.
Paul Thurrott (00:34:18):
I caught corn hole and an ESPN at a bar on Friday night. Absolutely.
Leo Laporte (00:34:22):
They have corn hole, Andel, Excel, spreadsheet solving. Mary
Paul Thurrott (00:34:26):
Jo has frozen
Leo Laporte (00:34:27):
By the way. Yeah, I know. That's why I was gonna go to a break. We'll unfreeze, Mary Jo. And while we unfreeze Mary Jo, guess what I'm gonna do? Talk about cranium. Noran.
Paul Thurrott (00:34:37):
No,
Leo Laporte (00:34:38):
I'm gonna talk about MIMO monitors. I had to practice. I had to practice MIMO monitors in my before the show to make sure I could say this, cuz I gotta say it. Right. It's very important. Windows weekly is brought to you by unify meeting from MIMO monitors, unify meeting from MIMO monitors, the global experts in video conferencing solutions. Sure. It's hard to say, but it's easy to remember because it's the best when you're working in the office or where you're working remotely or if your hybrid unify simplifies your work by combining your favorite video conferencing solutions. So you're saying no, no, I already use zoom. No, no. You could still use zoom or teams or Google meet. It. Combines them all in a one reliable universal user interface. See we have this problem here. Everybody's U like I talked to premier networks. They use teams.
Leo Laporte (00:35:29):
Our sales department uses Google meet. We use zoom now with unify meeting, I have an intuitive software solution that simplifies my work life. By combining all my favorite video conferencing solutions into one reliable universal interface, eliminating the hassle saving you time no longer do you have to say, okay, what meeting software do I have to launch an update now? And honestly the time is right, because we are all spending more time on video calls. I thought maybe this would end like when people came back to work. No, in fact where it's more than ever right. More than ever, but you gotta figure out where to click on the screen. I in, in invariably, because I'm used to zoom, I will hang up on a meet call the minute I start. Cause I think that that button is to turn on the mic and it's not it's the hang up.
Leo Laporte (00:36:16):
It's so frustrating. And if you've ever been on a Google meet call with me, you know that I, I joined the call and then I disappear <laugh> cuz I always press the wrong button. Unify solves this unify meeting for MIMO. Monitors love this. It's the buttons of commands are always in the same place. No matter what you're using. Zoom teams are meet. Whether you're working full time in the office remotely or hybrid unify keeps your video conferencing simple and intuitive. You can navigate between meetings easily without worrying, keeping track of which app I have to use or which commands I have to use. It's always on your desktop, but never in your way. By the way, I love this too unify meaning. And this is the other thing I often have to do is open my calendar. Find the meeting, click the button, blah blah, blah, unify meeting displays your calendar at all times.
Leo Laporte (00:37:05):
So you see what your next meeting is. You see what's upcoming. Then when it's time for a meeting, you tap the calendar invite, boom. The app opens the video conference, call in the appropriate, you know, tool in a standardized format, a UI that you already know how to use. You don't have to manually open up video conferencing software. You don't have to dig through your calendar. It's all there. In fact, I think best practices. Get a second monitor. That's what I do a second or third display. So you put, you put unify on that. It's always there. It's kind of nice cuz you always have your calendar. If you do more than a few meetings a day, you really need to do this. And for added accessibility, you could still see the video conferencing applications, original UI on the primary screen. So if you say well, but I need to dig into the settings of zoom to do this or that fine.
Leo Laporte (00:37:55):
That's there. Unifies is there. You're set. Unify runs on windows. It's PC compatible. It only costs 35, 88 for a whole year. You know, this is so convenient. They probably could charge 10 bucks a month, 20 bucks a month, but Nope, the whole year $35 and 88 cents. And this is why you're gonna want to get that second monitor. It comes with any MIMO monitors display. So if you're buying a MIMO now, now, now you got it right. Go out, get MIMO monitors, display and unify comes with it. So try unify for your team at work tra for yourself, unify meeting.com U N I F Y M w E T I N g.com unify meeting.com. And there's even more use the offer code WW for 25% off a year's subscription or get one of those cool MIMO seven inch displays and get 25% off that <affirmative> you might wanna get two simplify with unify. Thank you. Unify and MIMO monitors. We really are thrilled to have this solution unify meeting.com. Don't forget the offer code w dead w for 25% off. This is good stuff.
Paul Thurrott (00:39:15):
Also nailed it. By the way,
Leo Laporte (00:39:17):
What you did
Paul Thurrott (00:39:19):
On the, on the pronunciation,
Leo Laporte (00:39:20):
The tongue TWiTster, it was such a tongue TWiTster and the practice before the show unify meeting for MIMO monitors, unify meeting for MIMO monitors, rubber baby buggy bumpers.
Paul Thurrott (00:39:30):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:39:31):
Unify for me MIMO. But I know about MIMO. I've known about MIMO for a long time, but this, this is a cool, you know, 1, 1, 2 punch for the video conferencing crowd. All right. On, we go with the show.
Paul Thurrott (00:39:45):
Indeed.
Leo Laporte (00:39:45):
I have to leave now edge and go back to Firefox for the notes. Don't ask it's complicated. You know what if I had a MIMO monitor here insider preview release preview channel preview for windows 11, preview is out.
Paul Thurrott (00:40:03):
What you just said is more intelligent than what I'm about to add.
Leo Laporte (00:40:06):
<Laugh> so <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:40:09):
Yeah, so there have been three builds of windows, 11 released to the insider preview channel over the past couple of days. So Microsoft released, but did not document a new build for the windows 11 inside a preview release preview channel you were which is a, a newer build of what will become 22 H two. There's no documentation. Like I said, there's actually a support page with a KB article that 4 0 4 S I can't tell you what's in it. I'm not in the release preview unless I'm traveling, but no one seems to know what's going on there. So whether it has anything new in it or not, I nobody seems to know. So not yet. But then today, today,
Leo Laporte (00:40:48):
Microsoft, all of a sudden am I doing here outta nowhere?
Paul Thurrott (00:40:51):
Like I don't have a keyboard. I'm trying to use my hands <laugh>.
Paul Thurrott (00:40:53):
I always, I use keyboards for everything. So the keyboard for everything. So there are new builds of the there are new builds for the dev and beta channels. And if you're familiar with these, you know, beta gets two builds depending on who you are. The dev channel is further changes to file Explorer tabs that navigation update we talked about probably last week where you could middle click now to open in a new tab. And I guess that's finally gone out to everybody. They're, they're, <laugh> playing around with search results, how that works when you use the fine function there. And then the beta group, this is kind of the more interesting one in a way. Same thing, two different builds, depending on whether you're enabled or not. Right. And oh actually, I'm sorry. This is the one that has the middle click. So like, apparently everyone's getting the middle click in the beta channel now. So that will, I guess that means it's coming in 22 H two. I think that's what that means.
Mary Jo Foley (00:41:47):
What's
Paul Thurrott (00:41:47):
The middle click. Yeah. So if you have, if you have a version of file Explorer, the sports tab, right, right. You can middle click. So in other words right now, actually, I'm not even sure right now I don't have it in front of me. So I would imagine right now you could right. Click on an item in the navigation paint or wherever in file Explorer. Yeah. And choose open a new tab. But if you have a mouse that has a middle, like a scroll wheel button, you can just click that on the item and it will audit. It will open it in a new cab.
Leo Laporte (00:42:14):
Hello, SRA being, oh, no, that's a mouse. I thought it was
Mary Jo Foley (00:42:16):
SRA. I'm being Vanna white mouse click
Leo Laporte (00:42:20):
Look at that. Yeah. It's a, you know, it's I learned this in the tech TV. The thing is you stroke. You, you have to stroke it with your hand.
Paul Thurrott (00:42:29):
I just realized, by the way, how lost I am without a keyboard and how come you don't
Leo Laporte (00:42:33):
Have a keyboard,
Paul Thurrott (00:42:34):
Paul, because this, I bought, remember I bought the stand. That was gonna put the mic over the keyboard, but I have to use boxes. So the keyboards off to the side and I, I literally it was on Friday. I recorded, I think it was Friday recorded an episode of hands on windows, about keyboard shortcuts. I go to town on keyboard show. Like I used keyboards for everything. And it not being here is like, it it's like someone's forcing me to use my left hand for everything. It just feels it's weird. Wrong. It's weird. Yeah. Sorry. So that's, what's I keep wanting to, you know, switch between zoom and the web browser and the notes and with, cuz I do that with my hand and my, my hands over here, TWiTtching like a, like something's horribly wrong because something is
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:15):
Wrong. <Laugh> yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:43:17):
Sorry.
Leo Laporte (00:43:17):
Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:17):
It's okay. That eventually I need, I need to ask you something else besides the middle click mm-hmm <affirmative> so dev channel today, the dev channel build everybody got the new navigation and file Explorer and the tabs and file Explorer. So this thing is in dev channels that still right? So this isn't dev channel, right? It's not in beta, it's not in release preview. Right. And so we're getting closer to the rollout of windows 1122 H two. So I'm guessing this is not gonna be in there, right? Like at this point. Well,
Paul Thurrott (00:43:49):
So here's the thing, that's weird about that. So I, I mentioned that in the beta channel, if you do have tabs, everyone gets the middle click thing. Now what,
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:59):
Why would those stop? So why would that even is, is the thing in already in wait, is it in, is it in beta? Like is tabs file explor tabs in
Paul Thurrott (00:44:08):
Beta? I, I guess it must be right. I, I, that suggested
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:11):
I've lost. I've lost the plot.
Paul Thurrott (00:44:12):
I know I can't. Right. This is the thing. I think they do this to make us crazy. And I think that it's, it's almost like, I think we're being followed. Let's drive in a weird way. So no one knows where we're going. That's the, the strategy at the windows insider program. Yeah. It's very strange.
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:27):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:44:28):
Like I said, Leo did his thing up front and I said, what I'm about to say is gonna gonna be a lot less intelligent because it's really hard to understand what the heck they're doing. It's
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:36):
So weird. And then I think you have this in the notes yesterday was patch Tuesday. And so they rolled out a windows, 11 release preview build. Right. But there were no notes. Yes. Anywhere that's right. For that build. And there still aren't.
Paul Thurrott (00:44:50):
Right. Yeah. So that's the one where they actually have a KB article for it and it comes up 4 0 4. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:55):
Right. So what's in it. I know <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:44:58):
I dunno.
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:00):
I know. I do know. And why is it coming up? 4 0 4, right. I,
Paul Thurrott (00:45:04):
You know, listen, I think it was a week ago where they had released a bill to whatever shit. I'm not gonna remember that. Yeah. Yeah. But they didn't put up a blog post and everyone was kind of freaking out and they were like, guys relax. Sometimes it's delayed. I know <laugh>. Yeah. But the blog post came out two hours later. This time they released a build on Tuesday and it's Wednesday now. And there's still no blog post. And well, I haven't looked in the past five minutes, but that blog, the KB article is still coming up 4 0 4. It is, the release is on there. There
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:29):
<Laugh>,
Paul Thurrott (00:45:30):
You know, they released it.
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:32):
I wondered if, if maybe tabs for file Explorer was in it and they didn't want maybe to be known that it I'm just, I'm just throwing that out there cuz I can't figure out why they did that. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:45:46):
I'm on, I'm on some version of 22 H two everywhere, including on this PC right now. And I can tell you I don't have tabs.
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:52):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:45:53):
So I don't, I don't know.
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:54):
You don't have it. I just
Paul Thurrott (00:45:55):
Dunno. I have it on
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:56):
One. Well now after today you'll have it. You'll have it. If you have dev channel as of today.
Paul Thurrott (00:46:01):
Right. I'm trying not to use dev channel too much because I want to okay.
Mary Jo Foley (00:46:04):
Okay.
Paul Thurrott (00:46:05):
Think about the book. Obviously do the book, right? Yeah. I want it to match what people are actually gonna see. And I, I haven't actually I haven't written the file Explorer chapter yet, but I'm not gonna include tabs. Not yet cuz I can't trust it.
Mary Jo Foley (00:46:18):
No. And then I have, I keep having this weird feeling that the, the way they're doing the preview thing in the beta channel with two builds, every time simultaneously features on features off I'm like this might be the way that they're gonna push the file. Explorer, tabs thing like windows 22 H 1122 H shoe comes out, then you get an enablement package and then you it'll bring the file tabs thing to you.
Paul Thurrott (00:46:44):
That is the most on top of it. Horrific thing I've ever heard. And thus, I believe that is true.
Mary Jo Foley (00:46:49):
I wonder, I just wonder, I'm glad, I'm glad I put it in your mind so that you can be thinking,
Paul Thurrott (00:46:54):
Thinking about it. Exactly what they're gonna do. Yeah. Is exactly they're like based on the success of this testing and the windows insider program, <laugh> we've decided to inflict it on the rest of the planet.
Mary Jo Foley (00:47:03):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:47:04):
Yeah. I could see that. Yep. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:47:06):
Maybe you like it though. You want the tabs and the new navigation don't you, you don't think it's bad.
Paul Thurrott (00:47:12):
I'll never, I'll never, I don't think it's bad. This is, this is look, there are many features that fall into this category where it doesn't impact me, but I completely understand why people want it. I'm all for it. For that reason. I'll never use it. I will never use tabs. I, yeah. I like remember geez. I didn't really think, I think it was file manager back in the windows three X. No, but we, before that file manager supported multiple, it was an MD yeah. An MDI application. So you could have multiple views in the app and then people were like, it's great. Cuz you can drag and drop between them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and I don't, I that's not the way my brain works. I'd rather have two windows and drag and drop between those. Yeah. And that's what file explore what used to be called probably windows Explorer and windows 95, whatever it was called. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and you know, it became file Explorer over time. That's the way it's always worked. And by the way, tabs does not solve that problem. You can't Dr. Easily or ever. I don't think drag and drop between two tabs. Anyway, you're gonna want to have two windows open so I don't look, I, I don't begrudge it. I, like I said, I completely understand people want it. It's fine. Yeah. I will never use it.
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:12):
Yeah. That's
Paul Thurrott (00:48:13):
All
Leo Laporte (00:48:14):
Boy. I can't believe we spent 10 minutes talking about that.
Paul Thurrott (00:48:17):
I know. I thought we were gonna blow through that. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:48:20):
I know that's but that's what this show so great about obsessive obsessive details
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:27):
And we still have three more items under windows. We haven't even covered yet. Know
Paul Thurrott (00:48:30):
This is crazy, this so where I know you wanna let's go through this. We got this package manager
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:34):
Let yeah, we can blow through this.
Leo Laporte (00:48:35):
Let
Paul Thurrott (00:48:36):
Go, go. So windows package managers, this awful thing that Microsoft stole from somebody and then released and it's it's called waits win get right. So 1.3 came out this week. It is the big thing here. This is a couple of different things, but I think the big one that everyone needs to know about is it supports portable apps. And those are those apps that just kind of standalone you click and run. It runs. And they, they actually kind of install something on your computer. So wind yet will understand those apps will uninstall them correctly. If that's what you're doing, they will appear in apps and features like other normal apps. That kind of thing. So this thing is, I think we're, mm, I wanna say it came about a year ago. Build probably so May, 2021. So we're on version 1.3 and this is that it's win get is what it's so,
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:22):
Yep.
Paul Thurrott (00:49:23):
So that's win. Get, see, we can go quick. That was
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:25):
Easy. I know we can. Yep.
Paul Thurrott (00:49:27):
Hey, let's like pulling off a, a bandaid. Microsoft bought a company called clip champs clip the past year. We, we all asked email monitors, clip champ. I love that.
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:34):
It's a clip champ.
Paul Thurrott (00:49:35):
So clip champ is the kind of modern replacement for windows MovieMaker as I think I, yeah, I talked about this a few months ago. It's actually pretty great by the way. The two downsides to, well, there were three downsides in the beginning. The first, the first thing they had right up front was you had to pay to get most of the features, including 10 ADP output, which was crazy. Microsoft quickly fixed that. So 10 ADP output is available to everybody included free users. There's no 4k output by the way, even if you pay. But they had three paid tiers, which is like one, you know, so now they have one paid tier. And the paid stuff is basically you know, premium filters and effects stock, audio images, and effects cloud-based backup of your project. So it doesn't have to all be on a single computer, which, you know, is something I feel like they could easily integrate with OneDrive, but whatever. Branding for people that are actually have small businesses that wanna put, you know, logos on their on their videos and so forth. But you know, it's 12 bucks a month. So,
Paul Thurrott (00:50:33):
You know, in the, in the scheme of things, like when you think like something like Microsoft 365 family is less than $10 a month, right? Mm-Hmm
Mary Jo Foley (00:50:42):
<Affirmative>, mm-hmm, <affirmative>,
Paul Thurrott (00:50:43):
It's a kind of a weird extra price. I also feel like this is something that Microsoft 365 subscribers should just get for free. I don't understand how they're charging for this. So it's gotten a little better, but I'll just say, I'll just say this again. If you're looking for, if you have light. No, not even like, if you have video editing needs, you're not, you, you look at the really complicated stuff that's out in the world. Davinci resolve, is that the right name? Davinci, whatever the da Vinci product is. That's right. Yeah. Resolve resolve is incredibly powerful, super complicated. Or even something like Adobe and free premier it's free. Right. It's free. But it's complicated. Like this product actually for the types of videos that I would make, which admittedly are basic works fine. It, it does everything I need. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it works great. If you have any it's worth looking at but you'll have, you know, you store all your stuff on your computer. Like I think most people would anyway, mm-hmm <affirmative> and you make a project, you export it, you can put it on YouTube or wherever, you know, TikTok, whatever. It's definitely a market for that. It's it's like, I'm definitely a market. Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yes. My movie is a vastly superior product, but, but 1199 a month is tough. That's I don't yeah. I, I keep trying to touch the keyboard. It's I get
Mary Jo Foley (00:51:52):
Timely. <Laugh> it's like a Phantom keyboard
Paul Thurrott (00:51:55):
<Laugh> it really is. I keep hitting the box that the microphones on cuz that's where the key would be. Uhoh man is really strange.
Mary Jo Foley (00:52:02):
So we, we had a, we had a reader Paul and I did today. Jason Dean on TWiTtter, ask us, do you guys think they'll make this available to businesses? Right. And make it part of Microsoft 365 commercial subscriptions. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> if you go back and look at the announcement, when Microsoft bought clip champ, they hint that they were going to do that. Right. Like they say makes a lot of sense for education, for business, for this, for that. But they haven't done it. Yes. You know, it's weird
Paul Thurrott (00:52:25):
Though. It costs a lot more than Microsoft office. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:52:30):
That's the point. We were just saying that. I mean, that's crazy. I know it doesn't even make sense.
Paul Thurrott (00:52:33):
I think what's surprising. I think they will. The, they, I think they will do it. I think the trick, the thing that's taking time is they have Microsoft account integration, but what they don't have yet is a, a D integration and that's a trickier thing to do because it's, you know, they have all the different organizations with all the different needs and so forth. So yeah, I do. I think this is it. I think this is coming
Mary Jo Foley (00:52:55):
Now, you know what else? They also have a product called Microsoft stream, which is their video solution for enterprises and for commercial.
Paul Thurrott (00:53:01):
Yeah. It should integrate with that. And that could be where you store yourself.
Mary Jo Foley (00:53:05):
But right now those two things are not connected in any way at all. Right. They have nothing. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:53:10):
But this is, this is a fairly recent acquisition, right. So it is yeah. It's they they've added it to windows 11. It, like I said, it works great integrates with Microsoft. Account's cool. They do have a thing they'll charge you for, if you want that. Whatever. I, I think it's too expensive, but okay, fine. Yeah. And I think people are gonna pay for that kind of thing are gonna look at Adobe. They're gonna look at other solutions, but okay. Whatever, they, they have the right to try, right? Yeah. I think enterprise integration is tough and I think they're gonna do it. And I think it just takes time. So I do think they'll look at that. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:53:42):
And then that's my guess. Our last item, E E believe
Paul Thurrott (00:53:46):
Can't believe you wrote about, I cannot believe
Mary Jo Foley (00:53:48):
This is how slow this summer is right now. This is how slow summer is right now. I wrote an article today about emoji. Yep. I did. The reason this is interesting is Microsoft is quote, I'm using quotes on this. Opensourcing there entire, almost their entire 3d emoji library. I'm using quotes because I wanted to ask Leo about this specifically. Right. If they, if they say something is open sourced and you don't have to give it back to the community, is it really open sourced? Like if you use it and you like say, okay, say you take Microsoft's open sourced version of their 3d emoji. Yeah. You customize it or you do something to it. Oh.
Paul Thurrott (00:54:31):
And, and then you don't that
Mary Jo Foley (00:54:33):
Don't have to give that back to the community. <Laugh> and that gets complicated. Right. Because what does that look like with something that's Unicode based? So I see
Paul Thurrott (00:54:43):
So that, you know, okay,
Mary Jo Foley (00:54:44):
They put this under an MIT license, so that's an open source license. They put it on GitHub. They also are making it available on Figma, by the way, one of the emoji there's three emoji you don't get and Clipy is one of them. So if you wanted to customize your paper clip, I'm really sorry. You cannot. So
Paul Thurrott (00:55:01):
Let me take a stab at answering that. I'm just gonna guess, cause Leah will, Leah will know how this works, but when I think about open sourcing software project, it's about the code, right? In other words, you make code enhancements to something you're supposed to give that back to the community, you know, to the originator.
Mary Jo Foley (00:55:16):
Right. But this isn't
Paul Thurrott (00:55:16):
The code, right. We're talking, that's not the code. We're, you're talking about editing an emoji to come up with your own emoji. That's a different kind of, I don't know what to call it. Intellectual property. I don't know if open source licensing
Mary Jo Foley (00:55:31):
Covers
Paul Thurrott (00:55:32):
Thats there, then maybe Leah would not. I don't
Mary Jo Foley (00:55:34):
Know. So I that's, I asked about this, I asked Microsoft cuz I was confused. I'm like, so wait, can this actually be technically be called opensourcing this? And they said it's a, it's a step on the way to fully open sourcing it. I'm like, okay. So I think that means no,
Paul Thurrott (00:55:49):
It's a step of the way. <Laugh> if it's a step of the way, why did you call it open sourcing?
Mary Jo Foley (00:55:54):
Yeah. So I didn't in my article, I tried to avoid using the word open source just because I know people who care about open source are very particular about this and I don't wanna run a foul of the opensourcing police. That's I'm gonna say <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:56:09):
All right.
Mary Jo Foley (00:56:10):
Anyway. Yeah. So if you, if you wanna play around with the 3d emoji, Microsoft put it on GitHub, it's in Figma. You can customize it to your heart's content and make your own cool versions of 3d emoji if you're really into that kind of thing. Enjoy. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:56:25):
Right. Yeah. All right. Well I guess we move on.
Mary Jo Foley (00:56:29):
Yeah. All
Paul Thurrott (00:56:30):
Right. So Microsoft released version 1 0 4 of the edge wide browser. This was a minor one. Of course these things come out every four weeks now. So there aren't gonna be too many big bang releases, but I don't even quite, I don't use edge, you know, some normal, but I I'm curious is big change is a basic setting for edges enhanced security mode. I don't even
Mary Jo Foley (00:56:52):
Know. So that was that remember super duper, no remember super duper mode and edge. Do you remember that? This is what this is, right. Okay. This is, this is a new setting in that's part of SuperDuper mode. That my understanding of it is not frequently visited websites will get a basic setting. I see. And other, oh, okay. Other websites we're
Paul Thurrott (00:57:15):
Gonna fill 'em a little bit and see, see how it goes. Yeah. That's interesting.
Mary Jo Foley (00:57:19):
All right. All so it's more interesting than you thought <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:57:23):
Yeah, no, that's, let's go look at that actually. That's that is kinda interesting. Yeah. This was a controversial topic. I don't know, a month ago, two months ago, a month and a half ago, somewhere in there a security researcher I'll call, I think it was, was doing an audit of duck Duo's you know, tracker blocking technologies. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and discovered they're not blocking Microsoft <laugh> you know, that can't be right. Yeah. And it was right. And they had to kind of come out and say, yeah, we have this agreement with Microsoft because we partner with them on search.
Paul Thurrott (00:57:55):
Yeah. Where we're not allowed to block Microsoft trackers. Right. So Microsoft has what we call third party trackers, just like Google and Facebook and other companies and not echo blocks everything, but, but Microsoft. So they announced this past week that their browser and their browsers, I should say they have several different browsers and their web browser extensions will. In fact, by now I think do block the Microsoft tracking attracters so that's good. <Laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> but you know, I, I, I made a switch to the brave web browser couple months ago, I think. And I, I have never regretted that I, this browser, you know, this a little ducto kind of alluded the brave. It said it re it said it has better blocking than any mainstream browser. I think that was a little digit brave because brave absolutely has better. Oh yeah. Brave truck than mainstream. Is that what they're saying? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Mary Jo Foley (00:58:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Paul Thurrott (00:58:54):
So I, I think I'm, I'm comfortable where I am, but I guess if you are a duck do go user and I don't like, I don't have anything against them. I, but it'll be, it's a, if they should've said something,
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:08):
They should have they're now instead of being caught, right? Yeah. That looks bad. And now they're even
Paul Thurrott (00:59:13):
Being kind of, well, it's only 0.02, 5% of all the it's like it's kind of
Leo Laporte (00:59:21):
Weas easily. I just it's. Yeah. It's annoying. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:24):
Yeah. I
Leo Laporte (00:59:25):
Don't
Paul Thurrott (00:59:25):
Use those on appreci cliches. I people have defended them and said, well, it was a, it was a secret agreement. You know, they couldn't say anything. What are you talking about? Like what, like that's, that's crazy. We're not,
Leo Laporte (00:59:37):
You're,
Paul Thurrott (00:59:37):
You're marketing yourself as a company that is about security and privacy and yeah. Literally about blocking yeah. Trackers. And you've made an agreement with a company that sell that makes trackers. Yeah. And you're not gonna tell anybody about that. I mean, that's, it's an issue,
Leo Laporte (00:59:51):
Not a good
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:52):
Look, an issue. Not a good look. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:59:54):
It's not cool, man.
Paul Thurrott (00:59:54):
Not cool anyway, but they, they fix it. So, but yeah, so they promise they will never have an agreement like that. They don't have any other agreements like that. <Laugh> and they will
Mary Jo Foley (01:00:02):
Never make it ever again. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:00:05):
Okay. All right.
Paul Thurrott (01:00:08):
Had in hand, we apologize.
Leo Laporte (01:00:10):
Mm-Hmm happy birthday
Paul Thurrott (01:00:13):
Drive.
Leo Laporte (01:00:14):
It's time to get the cake.
Paul Thurrott (01:00:17):
So I don't, I didn't. Yeah. I've been traveling. So this happened while I was traveling. I I'd have to really think about this. This maybe Mary Jo knows. Does this 15th anniversary thing include the SkyDrive era or we pretending that one drive is something different. Wonder,
Leo Laporte (01:00:31):
Wonder, oh, that's
Mary Jo Foley (01:00:31):
A good, I don't know.
Leo Laporte (01:00:33):
I know it wasn't all actually one drive was it? It was SkyDrive before then.
Paul Thurrott (01:00:36):
Skydrive
Mary Jo Foley (01:00:38):
It must because 15 years, like that's a long time, right? It has to include
Paul Thurrott (01:00:43):
That. I would think, I feel like SkyDrive integration was a thing as recently as windows seven and maybe even windows eight. Maybe.
Leo Laporte (01:00:52):
Let me check the Wikipedia.
Mary Jo Foley (01:00:54):
I know me too. That's what I'm doing. I'm
Leo Laporte (01:00:56):
Like launched in August, 2007,
Mary Jo Foley (01:00:59):
2007.
Paul Thurrott (01:00:59):
That's 15 minutes,
Leo Laporte (01:01:00):
I think as SkyDrive right. Oh,
Paul Thurrott (01:01:03):
Okay. That's the question. I
Mary Jo Foley (01:01:04):
Don't so, well
Paul Thurrott (01:01:06):
Actually yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:01:07):
Shortly it could. Okay. On August 1st, 2000 life folders. No, no. The service. Yeah. So it was windows live fo folders provided as a limited beta to available a few testers in the us. This is according to Wikipedia on August 1st,
Paul Thurrott (01:01:20):
A by
Leo Laporte (01:01:21):
The way, it was expand
Paul Thurrott (01:01:22):
Things at Microsoft,
Leo Laporte (01:01:23):
A wider audience on August 9th, it was renamed windows live. Skydrive did that. That's is that IIC PanAm? I think it is. And made available to testers in the us. I'm sorry. In the UK and India. Yeah. Okay. So yes, this is the SkyDrive era, but not the windows live well. Yeah. I guess the windows life full,
Paul Thurrott (01:01:43):
I guess the whole thing. Right. So, okay. What, you know, it's fine. I, I think the big, the big hiccup for them, other than that branding issue they had with that German company over sky was, or no, that was, that was not a German company. That's a UK company. The German company was the Metro thing. Doesn't matter.
Leo Laporte (01:02:00):
Always it wasn't sky TV that they had a form out with was yep. Oh wow. Yes.
Mary Jo Foley (01:02:04):
Cause
Paul Thurrott (01:02:05):
They own the, they own sky. They own the sky
Leo Laporte (01:02:08):
Skydrive was updated to wave four release on June 7th, 2010.
Paul Thurrott (01:02:14):
Right. so the thing people probably forget, I think the biggest problem they ever had, and I think it was with the original release of windows 10 was they dropped support
Leo Laporte (01:02:24):
For
Paul Thurrott (01:02:25):
What we now call files on demand. Yep. Because they discovered a huge problem with the algorithms that were doing it in windows eight and people were freaking out. So there was maybe a one year period, maybe a year and a half where that didn't exist. But today mm-hmm <affirmative> with files on demand. You can go in and arbitrarily sync with the cloud. I want this files or these folders to always be on the PC, the lowest step to date, that kind of thing. Honestly that stuff works fantastic. I use, I rely on this every day. It works
Leo Laporte (01:02:51):
Great. So they settled with sky TV. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> July 13th, 20 or July 31st, 2013. So nine years ago. Okay. Wow. And they rebranded to one drive nine years ago. Okay.
Paul Thurrott (01:03:05):
So it's been one drive longer than any of the other brands. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:03:08):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yep. Not much. Yeah. Actually the official, it was finally officially one drive in a February, 2014. So it's been eight years. So it's only really been, you're not even quite, just little, just half the time it's been white drive half the time. <Laugh> it's weird because in the us copyright law, if you're in different businesses, right. You can
Mary Jo Foley (01:03:35):
Use the same name.
Leo Laporte (01:03:36):
Right. Use the same name. Yeah. And I don't see how sky UK,
Paul Thurrott (01:03:41):
Listen, no one understood this. Yeah. Their argument was, they were getting into internet services at
Leo Laporte (01:03:46):
The time. Oh. So, oh.
Paul Thurrott (01:03:48):
And they, they said, you know, you guys, we, we might wanna offer our own cloud based storage service and you guys can't call it that. I think that that's what was happening. Yeah. I think whatever they had at the time was either non-existent or cuz kind of nascent or whatever, but mm-hmm <affirmative> that was the issue. And I can't, I can't believe they didn't fight that, but I like one drive though. I like them. You know, like now to me SkyDrive seems a little antiquated
Leo Laporte (01:04:12):
Mm-Hmm
Paul Thurrott (01:04:12):
<Affirmative> as a brand. I don't
Leo Laporte (01:04:13):
Know, but
Mary Jo Foley (01:04:14):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:04:15):
Drives
Leo Laporte (01:04:16):
One drives like it
Paul Thurrott (01:04:18):
And they're redesigning the homepage on the web. If anyone got help or uses
Paul Thurrott (01:04:25):
Yeah. I very
Leo Laporte (01:04:26):
Rarely
Mary Jo Foley (01:04:26):
Go to, I just one drive on the web, you know, me, I use all the web apps.
Leo Laporte (01:04:30):
<Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:04:30):
It's where I store my notepad files.
Leo Laporte (01:04:32):
You know, when I use it, it is is when I don't wanna install one drive on a machine, but I wanna access the files. Exactly. It's nice to have a webinar face. It is.
Paul Thurrott (01:04:41):
Well, you guys are crazy.
Leo Laporte (01:04:45):
You would <laugh> all right. It
Mary Jo Foley (01:04:47):
Works fine. It's fine.
Leo Laporte (01:04:49):
It's fine, man. I'm sure. It's fine. Can I do a a little mention commercial mention here? And then you
Paul Thurrott (01:04:56):
Say intervention
Leo Laporte (01:04:57):
Is that intervention with the commercial mention and then we will continue on with our fabulous folks. Paul Thurrott Barry, Joe Foley pressing the button, Paul John pressing the button, but it won't get rid of the of the of the album art. So it's gonna be, if I do the, if I go and I do this, is it gonna be it made it go away. Okay. So you did something clever. Did you, our show today brought to you while you were clever lads? They're always changing the macros on me by the way. There's another thing that's happening. Every time I go outside the coffee machine is moved. I think they don't want me to find coffee. <Laugh> that's why I wasn't
Paul Thurrott (01:05:46):
Here. I, I love that. You're actually talking about this. I, I can't, I won't go into this, but I literally just had this conversation with my wife. I think everything is changed and someone is, am I on UNC candid camera? Like what's happening? <Laugh> I just had this moment this morning. Anyway, go on. Stuff
Leo Laporte (01:06:01):
Gets moved.
Paul Thurrott (01:06:02):
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's like someone screwing with it. It
Leo Laporte (01:06:05):
Feel like somebody screwing. We have. Yeah. Yep. We have a variety of devices. We have a kettle to boil water. We have a very nice BVL espresso machine, which at some point APRU, it's definitely gonna steal. We have a Ellie capsule, espresso brewer, and we have a one of those other cap, the big capsule, espresso, not espresso, but the other guys keg espresso. We have a Curig machine. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so that's a lot of ways to make coffee, by the way. <Laugh> we go you and they're
Paul Thurrott (01:06:38):
Sh they screw around with the guy and they, they make his shoes smaller. They sh shuffling walk and they that's what it's like.
Leo Laporte (01:06:44):
It's like,
Paul Thurrott (01:06:45):
Okay, where'd the pee go.
Leo Laporte (01:06:48):
They're moving it around.
Paul Thurrott (01:06:49):
Yeah. You walk around. You're like, dude,
Leo Laporte (01:06:51):
I know Michael makers here somewhere.
Paul Thurrott (01:06:54):
Yeah. I just had this conversation.
Leo Laporte (01:06:56):
Did, is this happening in Mexico?
Paul Thurrott (01:06:58):
Yeah. Yep. I'm convinced my wife is secretly working to you. Certainly.
Leo Laporte (01:07:02):
She's gaslighting you Paul. Yep. No, the coffee
Paul Thurrott (01:07:05):
Machine. No, I deserve it for sure. But I'm just, you know, I'm questioning my sanity.
Leo Laporte (01:07:09):
Paul. We're not in Mexico right now. We're in back in beautiful local
Paul Thurrott (01:07:13):
Country. The walls fall down in 'em in Pennsylvania. What the hell's
Leo Laporte (01:07:15):
Going on? Wouldn't that be funny?
Paul Thurrott (01:07:17):
Why is
Leo Laporte (01:07:18):
Trueman show it's the Truman show I want, I definitely, I wanna do that. I'm gonna talk to Stephanie. We're gonna get ya. You're gonna wake up.
Paul Thurrott (01:07:26):
Be so on
Leo Laporte (01:07:27):
Board. You're gonna wake up in the morning. <Laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> go
Paul Thurrott (01:07:30):
To sleep. The dogs look in my face and I'm like, what's the dog doing in Mexico?
Leo Laporte (01:07:35):
I love it. Oh, anyway, let's get back to work. Our show today brought to you by secure works, secure works. You, you know the name, I'm sure their subsidiary of Dell that might give you a little, even more confidence in secure works. What would happen? Paul, if an intruder broke into your home and moved in without you knowing it, sneaking around eating your foods, moving your coffee machine around, using your Netflix account. Okay. Now that's kind of ridiculous. You would notice it in your home, but what if an intruder is doing the same thing in your it infrastructure? Would you notice it? How many passwords could they get before you found them? How many systems could they damage or degrade? How many pieces of personal or financial data could they steal threat actors often hide in plain sight in it systems on average, more than 200 days before anyone knows they're there.
Leo Laporte (01:08:32):
Imagine a person in your house, moving your coffee machine around for more than six months. What happens with stopping at the end point is stopping your ability to properly defend your infrastructure. That's when SecureWorks contagious, extended detection and response XDR comes in, it enables a more comprehensive and effective security posture than ever before. One unified singular point of view, providing unparalleled visibility. It's like the eye of Soran. You see everything it's extensible. It follows data. Moving beyond the perimeter helps organizations unify their prevention, their detection, their response. It mitigates the issue of siloed security solutions. That's the worst that leave coverage gaps. I know what's going on there. I know what's going on there, but what's happening there. And of course you gotta gap. The adversary is gonna leverage it by organizing multiple point solutions, creating one unified and clear picture of your infrastructure. Ts XDR can help teams prevent threats effectively and detect them rapidly and respond appropriately. Secure works. Secure works is the name to remember it meets customers where they are with managed XDR you get a SAS solution that can leverage a SecureWorks experts. Whenever you need 'em 24 7 365. They can help investigate and respond to threats on your behalf. So you can cut dwell times, decrease operational burden and reduce costs.
Leo Laporte (01:10:04):
You know, some customers, some big companies have obviously gonna have their own huge security team and they can do their own XDR by themselves with minimal contact with experts. But in most cases, companies like ours, medium to small, to medium size companies have a shortage of security talent, and you will really appreciate the help of secure works to manager and monitor any potential threats to your environment. That's what managed XDR can do for you. It's really great. Secure works, provides fast emergency response with their experts. You've got chat. You can get, you have incident commanders working on your behalf to find the root cause and clear up all the holes prepare you for future threats. If your organization experience is a breach or a cyber attack, there is no time to spare. In fact, let me give you a number anybody can use right now, 1-800-BREACHED.
Leo Laporte (01:10:59):
Put that on a post-it note. Write that down. Tell everybody in your organization. One 800 B R E a C H E D. Because the minute you see a breach, the clock starts ticking. Now you fast action makes all the difference. You want to call that number 1-800-BREACHED. Whether you're a secure works customer or not SecureWorks emergency incident response team can provide you immediate assistance, whether you're customer or not responding to in a remediating a possible cyber incident or data breach 24 7. Now I wouldn't wait to become a secure works customer, but it's nice to know. You know, if between now and the time you talk to secure works something, you you say there's somebody in here E a mouse you can call 1-800-BREACHED. Secure works, offers a purpose built XDR solution. Designed the answer. Today's evolving security challenges, optimized by machine learning and deep detection capabilities, but refined through human intelligence, you can't beat human intelligence and insights earned over decades of experience.
Leo Laporte (01:12:07):
A Gartner Forster and IDC leader in security, operations, secure works and powers organizations with the collaborative and innovative security solutions required to achieve strong security in involving digital world. You want these guys on your team, you want 'em on your team, backing you up at secure works. You can learn more about the way today's threat environment is involving the risks it can present to your organization, including case studies reports from their counter threat union and more. It's kind of like you've got seal team six out there waiting to leap into action for you. Go to secure works.com/TWiTt, get a free trial. Ofts XDR I think this is the best way to do it. Secure works.com/TWiTt. And don't forget 1-800-BREACHED and secure works is on it like that, like that. And they do not waste time because every minute counts at that point, secure works defending every corner of cyberspace. We're very proud to have them as a sponsor of windows weekly. So make sure you use that URL. So they know you saw it here. Secureworks.Com/TWiT. Thank you, SecureWorks.
Paul Thurrott (01:13:19):
So you made me laugh several times during that <laugh> but I have to say, I especially appreciate that you made the eye of so aspirational in somewhere <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:13:31):
Believe me. If you're dealing with hackers, you want the ISR on, right? You want, what do they, what do they call that orb? You want that?
Paul Thurrott (01:13:40):
The P the
Leo Laporte (01:13:41):
P tier you want, you want that? Actually the name Palantier somebody already took it to spy on us. Yeah. Thank you, Peter teal, but you get the idea and if you're spying on bad guys, believe me, you want to know everything going on. So Paul, the next time the coffee maker moves 1-800-BREACHED. I'm just telling you <laugh> nice. I need ACH.
Paul Thurrott (01:14:05):
And I think it's my wife, the breach is coming from inside the house. Think from
Leo Laporte (01:14:09):
Inside the house, it'd be funny if they said get out, get out.
Paul Thurrott (01:14:15):
No, you need a marriage counselor.
Leo Laporte (01:14:17):
I don't think we can help. Secureworks does not do that. No. already people are very excited in the Mac world about visual studio, 2022, the new Mac version also mm-hmm <affirmative> the new windows version out.
Paul Thurrott (01:14:30):
Yep. Tell me that. My favorite thing about visual studio is that they have two version numbers. It's a 2022 and version 17.3. Oh. So this arrived this week, along with a bunch of other.net milestones, I decided not to go into detail about, but for example, dot net seven is at preview seven. The next release is the release candidate. It will be shipped probably November this year. There's a bunch of things around that entity framework unity, unity, entity framework whatever else. There's a bunch of.net stuff happening. But the big news to me is this new release of visual studio with which the biggest addition to is Maui support. So.Net Maui previously, you had to download a separate version of a preview. Yeah. Preview release of visual studio to get that support. Now it's built into the mainstream, you know, publicly available vision of vision, visual share, shared version of visual studio. So you can create cross platform apps that run on windows, Mac, Android, and iOS. So
Leo Laporte (01:15:31):
Woohoo.
Paul Thurrott (01:15:31):
Look at it.
Leo Laporte (01:15:33):
Maui is what? Oh, Sam
Paul Thurrott (01:15:37):
Multi
Leo Laporte (01:15:38):
That's. That's the new name for Sam. Okay.
Paul Thurrott (01:15:40):
Yeah. The new, there you go.
Leo Laporte (01:15:42):
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:15:44):
I'm sure they've solved all the problems.
Leo Laporte (01:15:45):
I wonder if there's a lot of.net development on Mac OS.
Paul Thurrott (01:15:50):
I wonder about this a lot myself. I think that.net user base, meaning like the developer base has actually gone up a lot over the past few years. Well,
Leo Laporte (01:15:59):
It, well, it's a good cross-platform choice, right? Yep.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:01):
It's interesting how it's evolved into that, right? It wasn't, that's not what it was, you know, 20 whatever years ago.
Leo Laporte (01:16:08):
I used to S chew it. If a app was a.net app, I would say, ah, wow, I'm not gonna go there. Wow. I'm gonna go there. But now no,
Paul Thurrott (01:16:16):
Yeah. They've, they've improved things a lot. I honestly, one of the OT, most awful things about updating windows through windows update over a I'm talking a 12 or 15 year period. Yeah. Was those.net framework updates,
Leo Laporte (01:16:27):
Right? Yep. Those things. It was five minutes
Mary Jo Foley (01:16:29):
Was separate and separately. So annoying, crazy.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:33):
So different one for every version, least
Leo Laporte (01:16:34):
It's kind of the electron of its day in a way. That's a mean thing to say. I know, but no, it's no it's but it's,
Paul Thurrott (01:16:42):
They've gotten better. They've done well by it. They've done well by it.
Leo Laporte (01:16:44):
So
Paul Thurrott (01:16:45):
Good for them. Mary Jo, I have to tell you. I know you're looking at the notes to be thinking, oh my God, that's
Leo Laporte (01:16:50):
Like eight I'm next box.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:52):
I'm gonna walk around the box. I have
Mary Jo Foley (01:16:54):
Time. You know what? I haven't had lunch yet. So there's time. I've got time.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:58):
Well, listen. I'm, I'm gonna blow through this cuz honestly,
Mary Jo Foley (01:17:01):
Really? Okay.
Paul Thurrott (01:17:02):
Most of this is not
Mary Jo Foley (01:17:04):
Time. The stopwatch is ticking.
Leo Laporte (01:17:07):
Oh, let's see if I can
Paul Thurrott (01:17:07):
Slow him down lightening round.
Leo Laporte (01:17:09):
I'm gonna try it slowing down. I'm just gonna see what I can do. All right. Go ahead, Paul. All right.
Paul Thurrott (01:17:13):
So sorry. I'm very slow today because of the whole keyboard thing keyboard,
Leo Laporte (01:17:17):
It's got a
Paul Thurrott (01:17:18):
Fantom that, yeah. It's only had a keyboard. Only my brain had a keyboard if only my keyboard had a brain anyway Xbox game pass ultimate right now it's 1499 per month. So in my family, for example, actually, well, my son's paying for zone actually. So we pay for two subscriptions. That's a lot of money, right? For two people at why, why you
Leo Laporte (01:17:36):
Pay for two subscriptions?
Paul Thurrott (01:17:38):
Why? Because you have to have one for each individual.
Leo Laporte (01:17:40):
Oh, so you, you and mark have one
Paul Thurrott (01:17:43):
Have separate.
Leo Laporte (01:17:44):
I'm not thinking, I don't think the, the ladies Kelly and Stephanie don't have one. Oh
Paul Thurrott (01:17:48):
No, no. They could. I, they don't even know. In fact, my wife will occasionally say, is this bill correct? Cuz that seems like a lot of money in
Leo Laporte (01:17:54):
The future. <Laugh> that's why I,
Paul Thurrott (01:17:57):
I wish I could pay once per year,
Leo Laporte (01:17:58):
A private charge card for my private charges. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:18:02):
No, there's nothing better as a, as a married person than being confronted by, you know, things that are on the field.
Leo Laporte (01:18:08):
The games that you're is this games just, just, you know, it's your therapy? Just tell it's your therapy. No. Yeah. And I'm be Stephanie and is just like Lisa, they go fine, whatever. Go ahead. Enjoy. Yeah,
Paul Thurrott (01:18:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:18:24):
We're
Paul Thurrott (01:18:24):
Just no, her the big concern these days is like double billing of things. Like we she'll come to me sometimes and be like, I just wanna make sure this is fine. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's a whatever. And she's like, yeah,
Leo Laporte (01:18:33):
Yeah, yeah. So you double build, being double build for a game pass ultimate.
Paul Thurrott (01:18:37):
Yeah. So obviously when you think about things like sharing an Xbox, which is a little tedious within a house and what does that look like if my son lives in New York, which is really difficult and wouldn't it be neat if there was a, some kind of a sharing thing. So there's been call for an Xbox game, pass family plan there, it looks like they're only gonna do it with ultimate, which is the most expensive one. They're testing it right now in Columbia and Ireland. <Laugh> of course, because I don't know why, but that's where they're testing it. They're not talking about the cost. And this is I think, where it's gonna get tricky because back in the day, the only amount of money you'd be spending every year in Xbox, you know, for subscriptions was game I'm sorry, was Xbox live gold, which was $60 a year.
Paul Thurrott (01:19:18):
But realistically was more like 30 to $45 with cuz you could have sales and get, you know, cards for lower prices and so forth. These days you're looking at 9 99 a month for Xbox game pass on PC or console or 1499 for ultimate. What, what would an ultimate family plan look at? It's gonna, it's gonna have to be 20 bucks a month or more. Right. So we'll see what that looks like, but that would still be a savings. You know, if it's less money I would consider doing it. So looking forward to that happening for sure. Cuz that is something my son and I would definitely share. And then this is also impacts me because I use an Xbox series S among the limitations of the Xbox series S compared to the Xbox series, X is, it has less Ram. It's 10 gigabytes of Ram compared to 16 for the higher end version of the console.
Paul Thurrott (01:20:05):
And PlayStation five also has 16 gigs. So Microsoft has figured out a way to give an additional they're calling it hundreds of additional megabytes of memory are now available to Xbox series S developers. So when you're making a game of targets, this console, you can actually have more ran, which of course makes games run better or faster or whatever. So that's actually kind of a big deal. So a lot of people kind of think like Xbox series S isn't really a NextGen consulate. Brandon and I were talking about this the other day. I, they could have released this thing two years ago now called it the NextGen console. Would've been very competitive. It wouldn't have been the fastest and the best, right. They would've lost that part of it. And then they could've released series X this year, as it is. And it would've been seen as a huge improvement, but you know, that's not what they did. So I find Xbox series S is perfect for my needs, which of course is playing old versions of call duty. Anyway Microsoft tipped me off to this a couple of weeks ago, a month ago, but now they're gone public with it. They are going to appear live at the games com trade show in clone Germany. Huh? The first time since 2019
Leo Laporte (01:21:09):
For 20 free, we're going to Germany.
Paul Thurrott (01:21:11):
Yeah, exactly. I, yeah, this is the one of those for some reason type stories. I'm not sure the world is ready for an in-person conference. But you know, Hey, I have a fun with
Leo Laporte (01:21:20):
That year, so it's do you know, didn't get the memo. It's over. C's over. Yeah. It's over.
Paul Thurrott (01:21:24):
Yeah. It's so do you feel,
Leo Laporte (01:21:26):
Are you had COVID as I we've both had the, yeah. The newest, latest COVID yep. Do you feel now, like, do you say well, okay,
Paul Thurrott (01:21:34):
I didn't die. No, I don't because, well, yeah, I do say that I, so I was really nervous about COVID in the beginning because I have this history with high altitude pulmonary edema. If this, if there was ever a a virus design tailored made to take me down,
Leo Laporte (01:21:49):
It was this thing. It just SARS. Yeah. It's a sudden.
Paul Thurrott (01:21:51):
Yep. And so I didn't want to get COVID COVID has evolved. So it's a lot less virulent or whatever, dangerous to most, for
Leo Laporte (01:21:57):
Some of us, all of us, obviously
Paul Thurrott (01:22:00):
395 people
Leo Laporte (01:22:00):
Died yesterday, so yep.
Paul Thurrott (01:22:02):
But the way that co the other way COVID has changed is that if we had had this conversation like a year and a half ago, a year ago, we might have said, well, have a COVID party get COVID new, new, now you're fine. We might have said that we, this is not the case new. So having COVID doesn't prevent you from getting COVID because this thing mutates, it
Leo Laporte (01:22:20):
Turns out the cruise was kind of a COVID party. It really was explained that way. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:22:25):
Yep. So
Paul Thurrott (01:22:28):
No, I mean, I, I was invited to go and I'm like, yeah, I don't,
Leo Laporte (01:22:32):
I don't think so. Yeah. Lisa, I love to go cause she had a longer she still wasn. Yeah. She had a tough one taste, tough smell back mm-hmm <affirmative> are you serious? Yeah, that that's awful. Yeah. So I can,
Paul Thurrott (01:22:46):
I still, I felt bad about you in particular, because like I said, I have never seen anyone wear a mask. So religiously you see the mask. I no, seriously, like, I, I, no, I mean, it's crazy. Like, I, I you're a BA mask that, that I don't. Yeah, exactly. I don't think anything says more about how easily transmittable this thing is. Yeah. Than you getting it. I really it's crazy. This is what was this made in raccoon city. What's going on?
Leo Laporte (01:23:13):
<Laugh> so,
Paul Thurrott (01:23:15):
Anyway,
Leo Laporte (01:23:16):
I swear to God, that's what I wear. Listen, although at least in one case Delta airlines, wouldn't let somebody wearing a one of these respirators on a plane. They thought, oh, that's that's going too far. I don't know. It was why it scary to
Paul Thurrott (01:23:30):
Look effective. I
Leo Laporte (01:23:31):
It's super effective this thing. It's it's like you're like a jet airplane pilot. It's gotta rubber gas. It mean, I couldn't see. I love it. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:23:42):
I'm not, I'm not ready. I'm not ready for
Leo Laporte (01:23:45):
That. So I got it at the balloon store. Paul <laugh> <laugh> oh take me back to raccoon city where the girls grass green. Take me back. Girls are. Yeah. Yep.
Paul Thurrott (01:24:00):
Anyway, so if you want to get covered games starts happening.
Leo Laporte (01:24:03):
So it comes, hang out with a lot of nerds,
Paul Thurrott (01:24:05):
Have fun with that.
Leo Laporte (01:24:08):
<Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:24:08):
What could go wrong. So if you're familiar with the Xbox elite series controllers, you know, that they're high end versions of controllers can swap out of the parts. They're expensive. Really cool. And if you're yep. The same year that they released Xbox series X and S which again was almost two years ago. Now Microsoft released the elite X I'm sorry, the elite series two controller.
Paul Thurrott (01:24:28):
But without the, it wasn't the new design with the share button in the middle, it was like the old design. It was like, what's going on? So there have been rumors about there being a white version of this controller. And now there are more rumors, lots of leaks, pictures of it and everything. And so the theory here is that this thing might actually, I'm sorry, actually it was three years ago, excuse me. That they've released the elite series too. This thing might be coming out in white and the pictures all don't have the share button. It's still the old design. So you pay all this money for this 200 bucks. I think maybe even more it's at least $200. And you're getting like the previous gen Xbox one version of the controller, plus it looks horrible because all those parts that snap off and can be replaced black,
Leo Laporte (01:25:07):
Not to mention the questionable. You really don't want a white controller. <Laugh> I mean, yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:25:13):
Well, not the way I drop
Leo Laporte (01:25:15):
Them. The sheet stains are gonna show up and
Paul Thurrott (01:25:17):
It's it's for me, it's the scuff marks from the floor.
Leo Laporte (01:25:19):
Yeah. It's not good, you know?
Paul Thurrott (01:25:20):
So that doesn't look good to me. This,
Leo Laporte (01:25:22):
This there's a credible leak though. Cuz I mean like he's got the box, it's got the package,
Paul Thurrott (01:25:26):
There are pictures of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So maybe it's maybe it's happening. I don't know. I think it looks terrible, but whatever. And then Microsoft announced Sterly this week that unity, which anyone in gaming has probably heard of this is the cross-platform game engine has chosen Azure its as its cloud partner. I, I'm not a hundred percent sure what to make of that. I assume what that means is that it's developer tool sets and whatnot will be available through, you know, via Azure in the cloud.
Leo Laporte (01:25:52):
I wouldn't make any announcements about unity right now. You saw what happened? Mm mm-hmm <affirmative> no a application marketing company called was it app app Annie app app? No
Paul Thurrott (01:26:06):
I did. Sorry. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:26:08):
Just putting close a bid for unity. Yeah. An all stock bid, which no one in their right mind would probably app loving app app's brothers MCs company which I don't think is a credible offer. And I'm sure the board will turn it down if not the stockholders, but it puts it in play. So now I'm thinking, Hmm. You know, unity might be, and this is a big deal for Mac people. Cause it's the last game engine that works on Mac OS.
Paul Thurrott (01:26:39):
Well, you know what though? That's not that that's true. But honestly I think Mac game dev is about to take off a little bit.
Leo Laporte (01:26:46):
I think you're right. I just read an, a really interesting article that said, this is why I said at the beginning of the show, PC gaming might be dead because well developers, you know, I mean that's what console gaming is somewhat taken over. Developers want a, don't want a moving target. And with PC gaming, you don't know what graphics card is gonna be. How much Ramons, there's
Paul Thurrott (01:27:08):
All these question, the developers, they freaked out from X Xbox series X and S I mean, imagine the infinite number of right variables to a PC gaming.
Leo Laporte (01:27:16):
So this guy's thesis. I wish I can't remember where I saw it, but this guy's thesis, which is an interesting thesis is Mac is a Mac is now no longer moving platform because they don't support graphics cards. You're gonna have to use the Silicon CPU and you're gonna have to use metal. And
Paul Thurrott (01:27:30):
So actually it's a lot like a mobile app platform in that sense yeah. You know, if you were gonna create games,
Leo Laporte (01:27:36):
It's even less the flexible cause it with mobile there's X Andos and Qualcomm and media tech. This is like, this is it. I, this is
Paul Thurrott (01:27:43):
It. I take, sorry, I'm gonna take slight exception of that because apple has already released like four different versions of their apple Silicon processors, which vary by GPU, especially I think GPU advances are gonna be a big thing for future chip set versions. And I, in the beginning, I thought they would have to partner with somebody to do
Leo Laporte (01:28:03):
Demographics.
Paul Thurrott (01:28:03):
They're clearly not gonna do that. Yeah. So, but I think you're gonna see like M one or, you know, M whatever chip sets that are specifically GPU heavy.
Leo Laporte (01:28:12):
Yeah. Yeah. They'll
Paul Thurrott (01:28:12):
Be will benefit. Not just, not just gamers, but people are involved in whatever
Leo Laporte (01:28:16):
Engineering, the way they're doing it so far. They're building these system on a chip that is basically always the same, but they're then they decide, well, you're gonna have eight cores, 10 cores. You're gonna have,
Paul Thurrott (01:28:26):
They can attack on
Leo Laporte (01:28:27):
Ally. But I think as a developer, you don't know exactly how much power a machine will have, but you do know what the code base is. You are writing to a, a specific code
Paul Thurrott (01:28:37):
Base. It is simpler, but I still feel like that's a little more complicated than even targeting Xbox series X ands because at least there are two.
Leo Laporte (01:28:46):
Well, and
Paul Thurrott (01:28:47):
Also I would say there were
Leo Laporte (01:28:47):
Four, it's an unknown market. I mean, you know, when you target Xbox, what you're
Paul Thurrott (01:28:52):
Targeting. Yeah. They're, they're buying games. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:28:54):
They're buy, they're definitely buying games. They're buying games. It's was an interesting thesis. I'm not sure I fully buy it. We'll watch with interest. But what about the thesis that PC gaming is, is on the wane?
Paul Thurrott (01:29:07):
What are there numbers to back enough?
Leo Laporte (01:29:08):
I mean, I don't know PCs are on the wane. And yeah,
Paul Thurrott (01:29:12):
I mean, but they're also higher than they higher unit sales per year than they were before the pandemic. I mean, I, you know, it's look the, the what's the actually, so the next story is about, so Nintendo, I'll just get rid of that real quick revealed after their earnings that they've now sold 111 million switch consoles over several, several years. Wow. The previous gen, I, I think the big number there was like 80 ish ish, something million for various Xbox and PlayStation consoles. The new gen consults have sold ho I mean, how do those numbers compare to what's out in the world for PCs? You know, well, gaming class PCs, it's kind of hard to say, but I don't, I still feel like the most fanatical gamers go PC for the reasons that developers can't stand it, right. The ability to go crazy with graphics or just to upgrade over time. Like I've got this whatever series graphics now in two years down the road, I'm gonna, you know, swap that out for something faster.
Leo Laporte (01:30:12):
Well, and another counterpoint of data is with cryptocurrencies crumbling and people moving to Ethereum, moving to now, you
Paul Thurrott (01:30:18):
Can buy it cheap.
Leo Laporte (01:30:19):
Now you can get a GPU for nothing as Invidia
Paul Thurrott (01:30:22):
Collapses. Yep. Yep,
Leo Laporte (01:30:23):
Exactly. And so, you know, if you wanted,
Paul Thurrott (01:30:26):
It's like getting a rescue dog, you like, I don't really know the, where the, what this thing was doing before. It seems a little messed up,
Leo Laporte (01:30:31):
A lot of use GPS on the market,
Paul Thurrott (01:30:33):
A lot of high miles on this thing, but you know what,
Leo Laporte (01:30:35):
But it's also easier to get new ones and I, and, and the prices are starting to go down too. And I, I have a feeling yeah. That could jumpstart the PC gaming industry, you
Paul Thurrott (01:30:44):
Know?
Leo Laporte (01:30:44):
Okay. I Don know it's, it's interesting to watch Ben Thompson has a very good piece in today's Strat. Teery about the confluence of crypto GPS and video and, and videos.
Paul Thurrott (01:30:57):
Result's at the front. Listen, have you thought the pandemic was routed enough? The fact that these guys were buying up all the GPS, you know, sandbag
Leo Laporte (01:31:03):
Somebody's at the front door, I'm just gonna unplug you right now. I just
Paul Thurrott (01:31:06):
Told you
Leo Laporte (01:31:07):
That. Yeah. <Laugh> like, I
Paul Thurrott (01:31:11):
It's me to like ask them
Leo Laporte (01:31:12):
It's muted. It's everything. But now
Paul Thurrott (01:31:15):
The Amish have arrived. What do you want me to do?
Leo Laporte (01:31:17):
If it speaks now? Be afraid.
Paul Thurrott (01:31:19):
Yep.
Leo Laporte (01:31:20):
Very afraid. All right. I think you did it. You made it.
Paul Thurrott (01:31:25):
I think Ashley, Leo, I have to concede that round to you. I think you did it. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:31:29):
I made it longer. That's
Paul Thurrott (01:31:30):
For sure. I would've definitely blown through that more quickly. Yeah,
Leo Laporte (01:31:32):
But that's okay. Yeah. I love my switch. I'm very happy with my switch. That's my gaming console. Although, now that I could play stray,
Paul Thurrott (01:31:42):
Right. I could be a thing is gonna have to come to other platforms that can't stand the PC
Leo Laporte (01:31:47):
Can't yeah. It's a Sony. Exclusive is Sony and steam. I don't know. I don't know.
Paul Thurrott (01:31:51):
You know, Sony is arguing that Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to buy active vision because those games might not come onto PlayStation. And here it, it is keeping a game on a single platform. Play the kid
Leo Laporte (01:32:02):
Into the PC. The one game Mary Jo wants to play. And I know that
Paul Thurrott (01:32:07):
Should be a phone game
Leo Laporte (01:32:08):
Should be a phone game. It should be a phone. It would be a good phone game. It's it's really, it is a phone game. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:32:14):
You're sitting there in line at the story and Meow went away doing your stuff.
Leo Laporte (01:32:16):
Exactly. It has a Meow key. How many key, how many games have a Meow key? You know? Right. They all should, but yeah. All of them, all right. You know, what's next kids. It's time for the back of the book. When we when we do the back of the book, we like to start with Paul thro, little Pauly and his tip of the week. Paul,
Paul Thurrott (01:32:37):
Listen, I, I don't understand if anyone pays attention to anything I say, but if you're using windows 11, yes, there you go. You need to listen
Leo Laporte (01:32:46):
To this one. Somebody sent me an email saying I will never listen to windows weekly again, cuz you keep telling everybody to use windows 11. And I said, apparently you've never listened to windows. Say that you've never listened to windows weekly talking about, wow. We've never said go
Paul Thurrott (01:33:01):
Well, lemme tell you right now, you should, you should be using windows 11 obviously. So we'll just get past that. No
Leo Laporte (01:33:05):
I don't. Who cares? Sorry. He's
Paul Thurrott (01:33:07):
Not listening. Here's the thing here. Here's so listen, I'm I'm I'm this is so hard to explain it. It actually applies to other things in windows 11, I'm still in the process of kind of uncovering this. I, I feel like I might have mentioned this very vaguely last week, but I think that windows 11 is ultimately about the elimination of choice and they're really accelerating the number of places where you don't get a choice. And you see it in things like the default apps, baloney they've made changes to settings that apply to this. So, so one of it, it's really hard for me to speak definitively about this because between windows 11, the first version and 22 H two and between the home edition and pro edition on both of those versions, there are, it has changed since windows 10 and it's changed since the original version of windows 11.
Paul Thurrott (01:33:59):
So I'll just say it like this. If you go back to windows 10 and you're setting it up for the first time, you'll there there'll be a screen that comes up that says, Hey, you can back up your stuff to OneDrive. Do you want to do that? And then you there's a button and you can see, we can, we can back up your desktop. We can back up your documents. We can back up your pictures. You can choose which of the three, or you can say, I don't want any of them. You there's a choice there in windows 11. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be able to speak definitively, like I said, but I think in home they took away the choice. I think in pro they re they continued the choice. And then when you sh slip forward to 22 H two, I think in home, the choice again is gone.
Paul Thurrott (01:34:36):
And in windows 11, pro 22 H two, I think what you get is a thing that says you can enable backup or not, but you don't get to choose what the folders are. It like slowly sliding back the choice. So here's the thing. If you're in the windows, inside a preview program, that choice that reset of your choice of a backup happens every single time you install a new build, you have to look at this. And so this is what you need to do. Open OneDrive, click the little gear thing and go to settings and go to the backup tab and then click manage backup. And what it will show you is which if any of those folders are being backed up, if they're checked, they're being backed up. So here's the kicker for me. This just happened to me by the way, this happened to me today after I wrote this tip.
Paul Thurrott (01:35:23):
So this, this is just verifies what I was gonna say. Anyway, I upgraded to windows 10, 11 version 22 H two. Today in Mexico, this laptop is a review laptop. It had the original version of windows 11. They're gonna put that in the box. I upgraded to windows 11 today in Mexico. Yeah. All throughout windows weekly. Yes, that's right. Here's what changed. I disabled backup for all of those folders because I don't want those folders backed up. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> now they're all being backed up. Oh, the thing is my desktop has a 4.7 gigabyte ISO file that I used to do the upgrade. Oh great. That thing is being backed up to one drive. Oh, what the Frick is that? So it turned it on without your say so. Yep. Without even asking that's here's the thing you buy a new computer, let's say it's it could be today.
Paul Thurrott (01:36:11):
It could be six months from now. You buy a new computer or you upgrade from windows 10 to windows 11, depending on which version of windows 11, depending on home or pro you will see some screen that says something about OneDrive backup. It may or may not give you the choice to say yes or no. It will not give you the choice to pick the folders you have to have to have to have to, once you get to the desktop, go into OneDrive settings. Yeah. I do it for that backup tab and see what it actually is doing. I don't want to and turn it off. Yep. I don't want if that's what you want and you may want it, you know, if you want it, that's fine, but make sure it's what you want. This is insidious and it's not just this thing. There are other examples of this windows 11.
Paul Thurrott (01:36:49):
I'm gonna talk about those in the future, but you need to look at this and if you're in the insider program, one thing you like, for example, one thing it does is and I, you know, experienced this today. So I, I have very specific folders that I have in what's now called the home section of the navigation pain. It adds back folders because you've done a new install. So the, I think it was documents and pictures just showed up cuz you know, windows knows better than I do. And I'm like, I don't want those there, but that's something you will see it's visual. So if you make any kind of customization there, you'll probably notice it. The OneDrive thing that could be that's happening in the background, you don't even know what's happening. And you know, we were just talking about the OneDrive web interface and how I never use it. Here's one way to use it, go see if those things are backed up in your, in one drive and delete them there. If you don't want them, this is this is to me, kind of a serious transgression. It's a you know, people who aren't paying for one drive only have five gigabytes of storage or seven if they grandfather the end. But that's the whole plan that ISO file would've filled the whole thing up. That's their evil plan. You don't don't
Leo Laporte (01:37:54):
You get it that's by the way, apple does the same thing. They don't turn it on once you turn it off. But the default is absolutely on for apple, you know, iWorks and, and other programs.
Paul Thurrott (01:38:06):
And this is, this is conspiracy, serious, serious stuff. Like I, well,
Leo Laporte (01:38:09):
I think
Paul Thurrott (01:38:10):
Here's my, I doubt myself so much about it. I have to keep looking at like, is this really happening? Here's my, and it is really
Leo Laporte (01:38:15):
Happening, but here's my positive take on it is they know people don't back up and they're, and, and they're gonna hear hows of pain, you know? And so they're just turn, it's essentially turning on backup for stuff
Paul Thurrott (01:38:28):
That you, I still feel like, look, here's the thing. I agree with you a hundred percent, but I'm sure that's, there's the screen and setup that talks about one drive backup. Yeah. In windows 10, it actually explained which folders it gave you the choice to choose them. Now with the screen is still there. It just doesn't give you the choice. Yeah. If you're gonna have the screen there.
Leo Laporte (01:38:44):
Okay. No, you gotta
Paul Thurrott (01:38:45):
Give them the choice. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. Make it, make them understand what you're doing.
Leo Laporte (01:38:48):
You could say you really ought to be backing it up and leave this check. But if you don't want to, here's your chance.
Paul Thurrott (01:38:53):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I, listen, I, I, I preach this to people who use windows, put everything in one drive, right? I mean, assuming you're paying for it in some way, because when you wake up one day and your computer doesn't turn on, or your computer gets stolen for whatever happens to it, you'll always be fine because you're not saving important data files to a folder. Right. That's not part of one drive. Right. Always saved a back OneDrive. But you know, I use, I look, I have a very particular configuration the way I do things, whatever I use the desktop personally, as a scratch space. That's why that file is there. I'm gonna delete it soon.
Leo Laporte (01:39:27):
Don't back that up. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:27):
You don't want, you don't want this thing backed up to OneDrive. I'm on like a pretty low bandwidth situation here where I am. I don't need this thing sucking up bandwidth. I like that's let alone occupying storage space in a thing I'm paying for. I agree. I just, this freaks me out. It's it's weird.
Leo Laporte (01:39:42):
But, and there's also this problem where the people who write this stuff get UN you know, virtually unlimited one drive. They, you know, and so they don't even think about like the five gigabyte mortals. It's just
Paul Thurrott (01:39:56):
Like, wanna store
Leo Laporte (01:39:57):
It there.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:57):
This is like the proliferation of mobile apps on a phone. You think, well, you know, I, this thing is infinite storage. Who cares? Well, here's how you, why you care. Those things are BA those things are updating every single day. Yeah. Why do you have 37 apps updating every week or every day? Whatever it is that you're not even using, what are you doing? Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:40:13):
That's what, that's why you should, everybody should go on a cruise once a year. Because when you no bandwidths, you immediately realize, yep.
Paul Thurrott (01:40:20):
How
Leo Laporte (01:40:21):
Nothing works. My Nintendo switch couldn't play a game because I wasn't online. And all the games have anti piracy features. Mm-Hmm
Paul Thurrott (01:40:30):
<Affirmative> you don't really, you know, it makes you feel like entitled in a way. You don't realize how much you take this for granted. And you also really don't realize how many well services obviously, but apps you use that 100% require an internet connection. Yes. And you never really even thought about it.
Leo Laporte (01:40:44):
Notion mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:40:46):
Notion is a great example. That was the one I noticed mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Flying a, you know, last year you
Leo Laporte (01:40:49):
Wanna use it. Yep. Yep. By the way, if you like these kinds of tips, you know what you should be doing, you should be listening to hands on windows with this cat right here, Paul Thurrott. In fact, the next episode is gonna be open to all we're doing both with hands on Mac and hands on windows. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> we're. We're four club TWiT members initially, because I forget
Paul Thurrott (01:41:09):
Where we're at. Do you know which episode
Leo Laporte (01:41:11):
Is? I do know the one with all the shortcut keys, which we thought,
Paul Thurrott (01:41:14):
Oh good. That's good. One.
Leo Laporte (01:41:14):
This is a great one.
Paul Thurrott (01:41:16):
I'm a keyboard nut. Yeah. Well you, I can I'm like a that's like a limb over here.
Leo Laporte (01:41:21):
Yeah. He's a keyboard nut. Where's his keyboard. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:41:25):
<Laugh> I know I can't, it's making me crazy. Thank you. There its
Leo Laporte (01:41:29):
So this, so what we're gonna do normally, because we're when we launch new shows, now we're gonna launch 'em in the club. Cuz we don't have audience. We don't have advertisers. They go together, but the club members are paying. So we figured this is a way to kind of mm-hmm <affirmative> jumpstart shows like hands on windows. We know that's gonna get big enough to go public, but we get it started. We get it flowing. We get an audience, we can start selling it and then we can go public with it. But we wanted periodically with both hands on Mac and hands on windows, have some episodes, especially ones that are of great utility. So we just did that with hands.
Paul Thurrott (01:42:00):
That's a good one. I, I really want people to use keyboard shortcuts. Exactly. It's you know, consider here's I'll just throw out one thing. I'm sorry to completely derail this. Not all. If you think about what's in the task bar, when you get windows 11 out of the box, right? There's a widgets thing. Start button. There's three more items that are search task view and chat, which is for teams. And then Microsoft pins, three apps fold file Explorer edge in the store. Your PC maker may add two more. You can delete every single one of those things except for the start button and still access every single one of those things with a, the keyboard circuit, like you can get rid of widgets, get rid of task, video, get rid of search, get rid of chat and you can still use them. Now you've freed up space for your own apps. You don't like those things are just there. So people find them. But once you know, they're there, you don't need them there because you could do windows key. Plus w for widgets windows key plus S Q for some reason for search windows key plus C for chat and windows key plus tab for task. All you have to know is the, and I, and this is me I'm you know, like I just do keyboard circuits all the time. So anyway, it's
Leo Laporte (01:43:07):
We here's what's gonna happen if you're of course, if you're a club TWiT member, you'll get this in every episode of hands on windows. And it's worth being a member, cuz it's not just that it's ad free versions of every show. You also get the TWiT plus feed with stuff like I did a little demo of shadow.tech before windows weekly to show Paul and Mary Jo that'll be in the TWiT plus feed cuz it was before the episode. You also get the discord where lots of great stuff. And Alex Lindsay asked me anything's coming up next week. And Ooh Stacy's book club Clara and the sun mm-hmm <affirmative> there's shows in there like the untitled Linux show Stacy's book club, the gizz fizz with hands on windows, hands on Mac that are not published publicly. Although if you do wanna see this special episode of hands on windows that's gonna be on the TWiT feed, I believe on YouTube. So I think you correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think youtube.com/TWiTt, just watch for it because we put all the TWiTt bits there,
Paul Thurrott (01:44:02):
But, and by the way, this is tip of the iceberg stuff too. I I, oh yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:44:06):
There's lots more.
Paul Thurrott (01:44:07):
There's a ton more, there's
Leo Laporte (01:44:08):
A ton more. That's why hands on windows is such a good show and you should be a club TWiT member go to TWiT.tv/club TWiT seven bucks a month. That's all. Or you could pay 2 99 a month for any individual.
Paul Thurrott (01:44:19):
Oh, so wait a minute. Is that true? Cause I had somebody. Okay. Just, yeah, somebody told me they couldn't find that for the hands on windows.
Leo Laporte (01:44:27):
You two go to TWiT.tv/club to it. I think, you know, I don't know. They don't tell me nothing <laugh> or they tell me and it goes through my head.
Paul Thurrott (01:44:36):
I know you can get it on iTunes by itself
Leo Laporte (01:44:39):
That, yeah, that's what
Paul Thurrott (01:44:39):
I'm saying. Why wait, just, you should pay for the, no one should subscribe. No. Who would subscribe just to the show? You should subscribe to the whole thing.
Leo Laporte (01:44:44):
Well for, yeah, for four bucks more months you get everything, but anyway, yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:44:48):
Get everything.
Leo Laporte (01:44:49):
Yep. Just a little plug TWiT and series. Mary
Paul Thurrott (01:44:54):
Jo's, Mary
Leo Laporte (01:44:54):
One, Mary Jo Foley. How not to ever write a book again. Could do a whole series on that great series. <Laugh> oh,
Paul Thurrott (01:45:02):
I'll get you yet. My pretty I
Leo Laporte (01:45:04):
One reason not.
Paul Thurrott (01:45:05):
And your dog, Toto
Leo Laporte (01:45:06):
Too. Co-Author a book with Paul, your app pick of the week. My friend.
Paul Thurrott (01:45:11):
Yeah. So parallels just released parallels desktop 18 for max. So this is the latest version of their virtualization solution, which on M one max lets you run windows 11 and 10 on RM. The joke here, so to speak. It's not really that funny if you're on the Microsoft side of the fence is that windows on arm runs better on a Mac and virtualization than it does on real hardware, which is really painful. So with this release, they're adding support from Akos venture when it comes out, including Ventura features like that stage manager feature where if you run in con look at me, pulling up Mac terms, if you run in coherence mode, those apps, those windows apps you're running will appear in that little sidebar thing from stage manager as apps, right? I mean they, they kind of just works.
Paul Thurrott (01:45:56):
So that's pretty cool. Supports windows 11 outta the box. The big thing there is just this streamlining of you're acquiring windows 11 and you're paying for the license it's activated you're in, you don't have to be in the insider program. Like you had to be in the beginning. It's not supported <laugh> although just like last year there's murmurings of it's gonna happen. Eventually Microsoft knows about this, they're working on it, you know, we'll see. But if you need to run some number of windows apps, you have an M one or whatever, M whatever base Mac, this is a great way to do it. And
Leo Laporte (01:46:28):
Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:46:28):
So there you go. So I think it's I don't know, it's probably $80 if you buy it outright, the perpetual license and then you can subscribe as well. And there are pro and business versions, et cetera, cetera. So,
Leo Laporte (01:46:40):
But you're still using great product beta of Whoaa right. Windows unarmed. You're not no,
Paul Thurrott (01:46:44):
Well, no, supposedly you this's is the thing I don't, that's the thing. I don't quite understand. I was asking Mary Jo about this because I installed this and I said, I thought this was just the insider version and I, the story is no, you can activate it and get on. You can get mainstream like a yeah. So they have a way to do that. It's just that Microsoft doesn't support it. Right.
Mary Jo Foley (01:47:07):
<Laugh> right. Yep.
Leo Laporte (01:47:09):
Wow.
Paul Thurrott (01:47:10):
So it's baby steps, but you know, again, it's better than the alternative right now. And maybe I think given the way these things are going with fusion and parallels, desktop, I don't think we're ever gonna see native. Well, it wouldn't be native em, emulated execution of X 64 code for windows as I should. Let me simplify that statement. I don't think we're ever gonna see the ability to virtualize Intel exit, you know, 64 versions of windows on an M whatever base Mac. I think it's always gonna be the, the arm version. So but the performance is stunning. It's great. And now that, you know, it run within that you can run X 64 apps, right. That that's supported. That works great. It, it runs basically everything. Some of the issues with windows on arm are gone when you run it on a Mac this way, because the ability to run, you know, to have those drivers and things like that, doesn't matter. You're running it on a Mac. You don't have to worry about whatever little features your printer might have, that stuff's all handled through the Mac. And then the app compatibility stuff is pretty much solved and we have better performance, which is crazy. So you could buy a brand new $2,000 windows and RMC it's gonna run slower than it would in emulation on a max.
Leo Laporte (01:48:23):
It's crazy.
Paul Thurrott (01:48:24):
<Laugh> crazy. It's it is. It's great. Should
Leo Laporte (01:48:26):
I have tried to run stray on windows and arm? I bet stray wouldn't work on windows on arm.
Paul Thurrott (01:48:31):
You know what they do talk about gaming. I've never done that. I think a game like that, maybe, maybe I don't know that you would get 4k, like that's probably pushing it, but it'd be interesting to try that if you have it, you should try it. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:48:44):
I mean, yeah. I probably
Paul Thurrott (01:48:46):
Interesting way try. Yeah. They always, you know, the, when, when any, whenever anyone does a gaming demo and they wanna show like frame rate and graphic quality, they always pull out this like six year old version of tomb rate. It's like the, I know it's the one that everyone uses, you know, I know. And it always looks great. You know, that's the one game, if you like that game. Yeah. You could run that anywhere. It's like the new doom.
Leo Laporte (01:49:06):
It ain't no crisis. Let's put it that way. No enterprise pick of the week. Mary Jo fo.
Mary Jo Foley (01:49:15):
Yeah. So surprisingly all this talk about windows on arm on apple. Silicon has a connection to my enterprise pick. Oh, a weird indirect connection. It all is connection. Right. So a couple weeks ago I made my enterprise pick a story that I had seen that said after October 20, 23, office 2016 and office 2019 users, weren't going to be able to connect anymore to Microsoft 365 on the back end. And it just, everybody was like, wait, what? Like, this seems crazy. How can this possibly be? Especially since those two versions of wind of a office, which are perpetual clients, meaning they're not subscription clients are supported until 20, 25. So how can they not connect after next year? So I went back to Microsoft cuz a lot of people were asking me about this pick and I had to go many rounds with them over this because anything with licensing it's complicated.
Mary Jo Foley (01:50:16):
So it turns out it's not exactly true that you won't be able to connect to the backend. What Microsoft is telling people is you can keep connecting to the backend services next year, but you know what some things might break or they might not, they, we're not guaranteed that everything's gonna work as it should, but you know, use it at your own risk after next year. So you know what? This is just like, it's just like the windows on apple Silicon stuff, right? Yeah, exactly. It's not supported quote unquote by Microsoft, same thing with windows 11 running on a non-compliant PC, you can do it, but Microsoft's trying to throw a little uncertainty into the mix and says, you know what, if you do it, if something breaks, it's where you may, may or may not patch it for you. Right? so the true story seems to be that you will, if you're running office 2016 or 2019, you will continue to be able to access Microsoft 365 backend services next year. And at least until 2025, when those two office clients are no longer in support, meaning they won't get security patches, but there is a chance because Microsoft is continuing to add features to the backend services that may or may not work with these clients that some things may not work as expected. So yeah, the truth's a little more subtle and nuanced than the scare tactic headlines from Microsoft may lead you to belief.
Leo Laporte (01:51:49):
Hmm. So lack of support doesn't mean
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:53):
What you think it does.
Leo Laporte (01:51:55):
<Laugh> I dunno why it doesn't mean, but it, this isn't the support you think it is. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:59):
Okay. No, it doesn't mean like starting October next year, if you're running office 2019 and you go to connect to exchange, it's great online. Yeah. It's just, no, it that's not gonna happen.
Leo Laporte (01:52:08):
Okay, good. That's good to know actually. That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have another enterprise pick. I believe
Mary Jo Foley (01:52:16):
I do. My second enterprise pick this week is something that's called entra verified ID. So entra is a new brand that Microsoft launched in may this year. It's the brand for all of their identity and access products. So Azure active directory sits under the enter brand. Now, so this week, the piece that's new that went generally available is the verified identity piece. Verified identity started out as an incubation about five years ago at Microsoft. It came out as something called Azure active directory, verifiable credentials. So that's what went live this week and is now generally available what this does. And I'm getting a little outta my waters here because I identity security. It's a complex topic that I don't cover intimately, but if you are an Azure active directory customer using this verified identity capability, you can now issue, request and verify credentials right online.
Mary Jo Foley (01:53:32):
So, you know, you have cards in real life, you know, like ID cards, this is the digital version of an ID card. And it's meant for things like they give us examples of, of reasons you might use this proof of employment, proof of education, any other kind of claim of onboarding kind of stuff. All of these things are what you could do if you use these intra verified ID cards in your organization. So the way Microsoft's doing this is they're partnering with all kinds of companies that are in the identity verification space. I don't know almost any of these companies except Lexi less Lexus nexus is one of them, but a quant clear ju on Fido on Fido, however you would say that <laugh> I'm like, I don't know any of these names, but they, I guess they're big in identity verification
Leo Laporte (01:54:28):
Fido's is definitely the pronunciation
Mary Jo Foley (01:54:30):
PHS like a doggie. Okay. Like a doggie. Yeah. On Fido. I know there's so many names here. I'm like, I don't even know these companies, but all of this is about trying to recreate digitally what we have in real life, which is an identity card. Yes. That would be a central place where you keep all your credentials and you can use them whenever you need to prove something like it's all in one place. I love idea. All secure. Yeah. It's a great idea. I mean, if this takes off, this is huge, right. And this is the cornerstone of what Microsoft is trying to do with this whole entra brand that they launched.
Leo Laporte (01:55:06):
Do you have to tie it to a Microsoft account?
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:09):
It's connected with Azure active directory,
Leo Laporte (01:55:12):
So, oh, I see. So
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:13):
You'd have to, but I'm sure they're trying to get other people to kind of back this place. Well, that's
Leo Laporte (01:55:19):
Yeah. That's obviously the first place to do it. Yeah. Because enterprise is gonna jump on this. Yeah. But it'd be nice just in general, especially since it's like international.
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:30):
I know. Right,
Leo Laporte (01:55:31):
Right. That's this is, I love Microsoft's leadership in this, to be honest.
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:36):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:55:37):
Yep. Going way back to remember passport there's single sign on.
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:40):
Yes. They, yep. They've always been interested in this idea of having a single centralized identity source, right? Yeah. Like this and back in the passport days that everybody freaked out, remember people were like, oh, I'm not letting Microsoft keep my credentials. And now it's like, oh yeah, they would be a good company. It's
Leo Laporte (01:55:55):
Interesting.
Mary Jo Foley (01:55:56):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:55:56):
Because you know, for a long time I thought nobody in America wants a national ID, you know? Right. That's the that's, that's like antithetical to freedom or something. And now all of a sudden, I think, and it really comes down to the fact that we have all these passwords and all, you know, we, and there's all these, this hacking going on a secure, strong ID, not so much for papers, please, you know, to give the police. Yeah. But for your online identity would be so valuable. So it
Mary Jo Foley (01:56:24):
Would solve
Paul Thurrott (01:56:24):
Apple and Google have got this Leo,
Leo Laporte (01:56:26):
I don't know.
Mary Jo Foley (01:56:27):
Well pay, don't worry.
Leo Laporte (01:56:28):
I think this is probably compatible with Pasky. I don't know, but Microsoft's in on the Pasky thing too. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, I kind of we'll
Mary Jo Foley (01:56:36):
Have to ask, let's ask Steve Gibson about it. I will. He thinks, yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:56:40):
He listens the show. So Steve's getting to work on it as we speak.
Mary Jo Foley (01:56:44):
All right.
Leo Laporte (01:56:45):
Good. I know clear, let get em on clear is one of the people partnering with it and that's kind of interesting cuz Clear's the one where you I have a get go through the airport security faster, right. Because you have mm-hmm <affirmative> you know, and they have your Iris scan and your fingerprints. Yeah. Paul, did you have something to add? I was gonna,
Paul Thurrott (01:57:01):
When you do your bear, I have a little follow up to your beer pick.
Leo Laporte (01:57:04):
Oh, okay. Let's do the beer because okay. Beer's here. I was good.
Paul Thurrott (01:57:08):
Interested to see cant in Massachusetts making appearance in
Leo Laporte (01:57:11):
The notes. <Laugh> yes.
Mary Jo Foley (01:57:13):
Yes. So, you know, I, I talk sometimes on the show about whales, these are beers that everybody wants to drink and they're hard to get and people like travel to get, go get them. Wow. Because they're so hard to get like,
Leo Laporte (01:57:25):
Like plenty of today, plenty of the younger and the older,
Mary Jo Foley (01:57:27):
Right? Yes. Plenty. The elder plenty. The younger mm-hmm <affirmative> Trium, which is based in Canton. Massachusetts is one of these companies that makes beers that everybody wants. Yes. And it's really hard to get them. Yes. But this week in New York, for some reason, there's a ton of Trium floating around. No pun intended on draft and cans. Don't
Leo Laporte (01:57:47):
Drink the brown Trium though. Man, do not. And get on a bad trip.
Mary Jo Foley (01:57:51):
You don't want that. No, but you, you know, I'll tell you, if you see anything from Trium, it's gonna be good. They, they, every beer I've ever had from them has been the perfect example of a style. Right. And so they name a lot of their beers after streets in Boston. The beer pick I have for today is Congress street from Trium it's, it's hard to explain this, but it's so basic and well done that it didn't doesn't need gimmicks. Right? You have this and it's like, this is what a perfect IPA is.
Leo Laporte (01:58:21):
It's not fermented on raspberries.
Mary Jo Foley (01:58:23):
No, no. There's
Leo Laporte (01:58:24):
No chocolate in this
Mary Jo Foley (01:58:25):
Beer. No. Yeah, yeah. There's no weird dishes. There's no popsicles
Leo Laporte (01:58:29):
Lemon grass.
Mary Jo Foley (01:58:30):
<Laugh> no, no
Leo Laporte (01:58:31):
Popsicles,
Mary Jo Foley (01:58:32):
No popsicles, no candy. Like people throw candy. Graham crackers bread. No, none of those. None of those things, all it is is a great IPA. It on the front end, you have all the things you love. It's hopped with galaxy hops, which makes means it's like Melanie and, and deliciously fruity. And then when it, you have yeah. Melon like cantaloupe a little bit. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> at the end. When you finish the sip, it's bitter. Just the way you want. I want this
Paul Thurrott (01:58:58):
Bitter, this set. I know Paul's not an IPA
Mary Jo Foley (01:59:00):
Fan, but yeah. I it's understand. It's kinda a perfect IPA. I don't like
Paul Thurrott (01:59:04):
To set this too hoppy
Mary Jo Foley (01:59:05):
Either, but this great. It's not too happy. So yeah, man. Yep. I know you don't like IPAs. I know you can't be perfect. No.
Paul Thurrott (01:59:13):
So we don't have time for this Paul's story, but Trium, wasn't always based in can't Massachusetts and maybe Mary Jo knows the term for this, but they were kind of a
Mary Jo Foley (01:59:23):
Gypsy brewery.
Paul Thurrott (01:59:24):
Like a gypsy brewery. There you go. Gypsy. Yeah. They would just rent out other facilities to, to make their stuff. Yeah. They came to Canton right after, or right around the time that blue Hills brewery, which used to been my favorite brewery also in Canton disappeared. Oh wow. Those guys were slackers of the highest order they made the best beer I've ever had. <Laugh> they made IPAs that I loved. Yeah. They, the two things about that company that blow me away is that they were one of the companies asked to make a games of Thrones beer, which they mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm climbed. And then they said,
Mary Jo Foley (01:59:55):
He said, no, just
Paul Thurrott (01:59:56):
Give us one of your said, no, they said, can you just give us one of your existing beers? They said, sure. And they did it won awards. They're like, all right, we're gonna go national with this. Like, yeah. We're not interested in that. Oh, I love. So they went to Ang OMA gang. Got it. Yep. They did because blue Hills brewer screwed it up. This is a company that wouldn't go into Boston because the traffic on the expressway was too bad and they did like bring their beard. It was just crazy. So tri came to Canton, literally across the street and you know, they've been kicking ass, like you said. And so they are exactly what you said. They are. They've done everything. Right. And yeah. Super successful. Yeah. And it just makes me sad because the guy who we were friends with who ran and was the brewmaster for blue Hills brewery mm-hmm <affirmative> was a genius. And I just, they, it was just no business sense over there at all.
Mary Jo Foley (02:00:40):
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (02:00:41):
And I just feel really bad about it. I, I don't understand how they disappeared. I think I, at one point gave you some of their IPAs, which you did.
Mary Jo Foley (02:00:49):
I,
Paul Thurrott (02:00:49):
Yeah, you did were almost the only IPAs I ever, one of 'em was called quarter mile. Yeah. Which I think was the double IPA mm-hmm <affirmative> and I, they were the, they made that what do you call that really? Sugary kind of beer rub the brand wine, beer brand wine. Beer.
Mary Jo Foley (02:01:06):
Yeah. Barley wine.
Paul Thurrott (02:01:07):
Which I barley wine. I'm sorry. Thank you. Fantastic. They were just so fantastic, but Trium has completely taken over for that. So
Mary Jo Foley (02:01:14):
Yeah. Yeah. I walked into my local beer store and I I'm like looking at, as I do. I spend some time looking at all the IPAs and also I'm like, wait a minute. I like opened the cabinet and I yelled out and it's all like full of people. I'm like, there's Tru I in here. And people just like stampeded over to the cabinet. <Laugh> I'm like, oh, sorry, everyone. Sorry.
Paul Thurrott (02:01:33):
Yeah. Should have been quiet. Should've been
Mary Jo Foley (02:01:34):
Quiet. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (02:01:36):
Yeah. Now they're a big deal. I, yeah. I remember remember having trillion beer. I mean, this would've been more than several years ago. We've been here. We've been moved away since for five. It was a long time ago. Yeah. And it was just, they were magical. And they were like all in, in every sense of the word, because it's like, where is this place? There is no place. Yeah. You know, they, they were, you never know where it was gonna pop up.
Leo Laporte (02:01:57):
Yeah. Unlike the name, gypsy brewer. That's great. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:00):
I love
Paul Thurrott (02:02:00):
That. Yep. Well, because they would've to rent out facilities. Sure. You know, this a community,
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:04):
A lot of the best brewers start that way. Right.
Paul Thurrott (02:02:06):
They all know each other and they help each other out
Leo Laporte (02:02:09):
And popup restaurants, which is also, it is thing these days.
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:11):
Exactly.
Paul Thurrott (02:02:14):
Anyway, Canton is next to denim and Canton is where Stephanie and I lived for the first three years we
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:19):
Married. Oh, you did? Oh, wow. Mm.
Paul Thurrott (02:02:21):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, but, but blue hill, you know, they they're, they were they're right. Well, blue Hills is gone, but they were right in the same neighborhood basically. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (02:02:29):
So
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:31):
Anyway, that's the pick. Interesting. If you can find Trium anywhere,
Paul Thurrott (02:02:35):
If you can find any Trium
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:37):
Yep. Get it, just get it. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (02:02:42):
Excellent. I think you have completed your assignments admirably
Mary Jo Foley (02:02:50):
<Laugh>
Leo Laporte (02:02:50):
And I am now happy to say that. Thanks to the power vested me. You are all graduates of this week's windows weekly. <Laugh> well, di of
Paul Thurrott (02:03:01):
So on level one
Leo Laporte (02:03:02):
<Laugh> prestige 11 mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yes. Paul Thra is@thra.com. That's his website become a premium member for the really good stuff. Actually. It's all good. But the premium stuff's really, really good. You'll also find Paul at lean pub.com. That's where his books are in. Do you feel guide went? What?
Paul Thurrott (02:03:23):
I apologize. Your wife has emailed me and I feel we have to address this <laugh> she says you can go to our club page at TWiTtter V slash club, TWiT single purchases
Leo Laporte (02:03:33):
For, did I not say that? Did I
Paul Thurrott (02:03:35):
Not? You did, but I, I, like I said, somebody emailed me, she has verified that they are available at the
Leo Laporte (02:03:41):
Bottom. And did I not tell you that she's listening every time, all the time, constantly listening to the show.
Mary Jo Foley (02:03:48):
Oh, we know, we
Paul Thurrott (02:03:49):
Know. Yeah. She is the single source of truth.
Leo Laporte (02:03:52):
Yes.
Paul Thurrott (02:03:53):
On the bottom. See two join
Leo Laporte (02:03:54):
Today annually or
Paul Thurrott (02:03:55):
No, no. If you go to like an individual show page yeah. Or go like hands on windows or hands on mic,
Leo Laporte (02:03:59):
Join our hands on Mac only page. There you go. Or join our hands on windows only page. And that list may lengthen. Of course.
Paul Thurrott (02:04:09):
I was gonna say, I assume more are coming.
Leo Laporte (02:04:10):
It's all here at TWiT.tv/club TWiT. And it's a big help to us if by the way, if you participate cuz as you know, winter is coming <laugh> yeah. Yep. And and it's just nice to have
Paul Thurrott (02:04:29):
Didn't feel like it yesterday.
Leo Laporte (02:04:30):
I know, I
Mary Jo Foley (02:04:31):
Know. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:04:33):
Lean pub.com is where you'll find the field guide to windows 10 and soon a windows is 11 and of course, hands on windows is available at that TV slash club TWiT, but do look for that special open to everyone version on our YouTube channel because that that's gonna be a must watch. It'll give you a taste of what you're missing. Let's see. Mary Jo Foley, she writes for ZD net. The blog is easy to find cuz it's got its own vanity domain name, which is by the way, the same as the license plate on her PT cruiser. It's all about microsoft.com. It's a very big, very big license. All about Microsoft. Her
Paul Thurrott (02:05:14):
Horn makes the micro, the windows 11 boot sound, which
Leo Laporte (02:05:16):
Is it. It does <laugh> <laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (02:05:20):
It doesn't
Leo Laporte (02:05:21):
I don't know why. I just see you driving a PT cruiser with a custom license plate. I don't know. It's
Paul Thurrott (02:05:25):
Like the one person in New York. There's a Microsoft sticker on a car instead of a apple.
Leo Laporte (02:05:28):
Exactly. Yeah. Thank you.
Mary Jo Foley (02:05:31):
Someone has to be that person guys.
Leo Laporte (02:05:33):
Thank you, Mary Jo. You are, you are that person and we're glad. Yep. We do windows weekly every Wednesday about 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern 1800 UTC. You can watch us to it live on the live stream, which goes 24 7 it's live.Twit.tv. If you're watching live chat, live irc.Twit.tv or in our club, TWiT discord. There's a chat going on in both places. After the fact on demand versions of this show and every show we do available@TWiTt.tv, the website in this case is TWiTt.tv/ww. There's a YouTube channel dedicated to windows weekly. So you can watch there. That's good for sharing. You know, if you wanna just get a little clip and share it with somebody, you can do that YouTube very easily. And then of course, if you subscribe, you'll get it automatically. The minute it's available, just get your favorite podcast player to search for windows weekly.
Leo Laporte (02:06:23):
You'll find it immediately. And club TWiT members get a custom feed that they can use in podcasts or overcast or Google or podcast or apple podcasts. So they, they can do it also. If you listen after the fact, there are other places to interact besides the live chat, there's a forum, a wonderful forum. I think of course I'm a little biased at TWiTt.community and that's free to join. All are welcome. And we have our own Mastodon instance, which is an open source federated version of TWiTtter. That's a TWiTt.social. So there's TWiTt.community and trip that social, both of those are open to all. And we'd love to see you in there. Thank you everybody for stopping by come back next week for another thrilling gripping edition of windows weekly. So long winners and dozers bbye and do host and dosses
