Windows Weekly Episode 796 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Theros here. Mary Jo Foley's here. The Edge team has a plan to make progressive web apps more native, and I'm all for that. Goodbye to Swift Key for iOS. Hello to the Surface Studio three. We'll find out ahead of the October event, plus code names for all the surface stuff. And then Paul talks about that new Logitech Xbox Cloud gaming, handheld, it's all coming up next. And a lot more on Windows Weekly podcasts you love

Mary Jo Foley (00:00:32):
From people you trust.

TWiT Intro (00:00:35):
This is,

Leo Laporte (00:00:42):
This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thra and Mary Jo Foley. Episode 796 Recorded Wednesday, September 28th, 2022. Largely Pain Free Windows Weekly is brought to you by Lenovo, Orchestrated by the experts at CDW to help transform your organization with Lenovo ThinkPads equipped with the Intel EVO platform for effortless connectivity and collaboration from anywhere. Learn more at cdw.com/lenovo client and by IT Pro tv. Give your team an engaging IT development platform to level up their skills. Volume discounts. Start at five seats, Go to it pro.tv/windows and make sure to mention WW 30 to your IT Pro TV account executive to get 30% off or more on a business plan. And by draw, security professionals are undergoing the tedious and arduous task of manually collecting evidence with Draw da. Say goodbye to the days of manual evidence collection and hello to Automation. All done at Draw to speed. Visit draw da.com/TWiT to get a demo and 10% off implementation. It's time for Windows Weekly, the show where we cover the latest news from Microsoft with all about microsoft.com Host Mary Jo Foley. That's her zd net blog. Hello, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:09):
Hello. The hello

Leo Laporte (00:02:11):
Mary Jo. Also with us, the inimitable Paul th

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:19):
Autonomous

Leo Laporte (00:02:19):
Theist autonomous.com. Hello Paul. Hello Leo. Hello. you know, I found out an interesting thing about our album art. Somebody Oh yeah. Somebody tells me that on the iPhone in the dynamic island, when you're listening to Windows Weekly and it's shrunk down, it looks like a gaping red red mall. Awesome. I think that's appropriate. I think it says if we planned it, the only thing better would be so's eye

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:51):
<Laugh>. It would, That'd be pretty good too. <Laugh>, take that dynamic island. There it is.

Leo Laporte (00:02:57):
Look it. Apple pad tear is staring at you <laugh>. So we had a fun time last week talking about the official release of 22 H two.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:10):
Yep. Heard

Leo Laporte (00:03:11):
From a few that they haven't got it yet. What's the story?

Paul Thurrott (00:03:14):
Just a few

Leo Laporte (00:03:16):
Everyone I

Mary Jo Foley (00:03:17):
Know. I'm hearing from everyone gotten

Paul Thurrott (00:03:19):
It. Most most people probably haven't gotten it, I would think. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:03:22):
Yeah. Okay.

Mary Jo Foley (00:03:22):
Same.

Leo Laporte (00:03:24):
Nothing, nothing to see here. Normal.

Mary Jo Foley (00:03:27):
Yeah. Not normal. Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:03:28):
We, is it, we have a little, we have a few updates. We have a few small updates.

Leo Laporte (00:03:31):
Okay. Yeah. What's the deal?

Mary Jo Foley (00:03:34):
So, one surprising one from the morning, my Surface laptop three was offered 22 H two. And the reason this is surprising is typically when we've had these updates, feature updates, surfaces are among the last devices to get them for whatever reason, like they typically lag behind by months. Behind other pieces, <laugh>. But today I was actually, I was not a seeker, not a willing seeker. I was looking for a driver update and it took me to Windows update and suddenly I was offered 22 H two. And so I said to Paul, I was offered 22 H shoe. He's like, Well, you're gonna install it. Right? I'm like, Take

Leo Laporte (00:04:12):
It <laugh>.

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:15):
But I did. And it's, it's on my pc. It's here. Seems okay. So far

Paul Thurrott (00:04:22):
You've probably noticed all the many differences.

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:25):
I, I was looking for differences and I couldn't find a single one. I, I'm like, I don't really see

Paul Thurrott (00:04:30):
Anything. The big one is if you move a window around, pain will drop down from the top to give you the layouts. It's probably the most obvious one.

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:38):
Yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (00:04:39):
It. Steve Gibson had something he was celebrating, but I don't remember what

Paul Thurrott (00:04:43):
It was. Wow. <laugh>, Is it the always on security features?

Leo Laporte (00:04:46):
Could be that,

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:46):
That's probably, It could be that. Yeah. I would assume it was that. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:04:49):
This is something give, given the horrible communication of the first version one is 11 and the, the literal downplaying of the hardware requirements, you would think that Microsoft would be trumpeting the fact that those things happen for a reason and here they are, you know? Right. But they really don't mention it very much. So there's a feature called Smart App Control. I don't think this is the only feature that, you know is resulting from this change, but that security requirements, so the security hardware requirements that Microsoft made a year ago, eighth Gen Intel, etcetera, are based around the fact that those chipset support specific hardware virtualization features that enable hardware back security mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so even features that exist that are common between Windows 10 and Windows 11 version 22 H two should be more secure because they have the backing of this hardware, but it also enables new features.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:45):
So we get a Smart app controls is one. So this is a, you know, it's an anti malware type thing. We already have this stuff in Windows. What's the big deal? It literally does a predictive model based on the characteristics of the app to determine whether this thing might be malicious. And if it doesn't have a sign, a valid signature, and it, it fails to this test, Microsoft will not allow you to even install the thing or run it. It will literally just make it unavailable. Yep. So that's a, that's a pretty serious line in the sand. You can disable it. You can't do it on an app i app basis. And if you turn this feature off, it's off forever. You can only turn it on again if you do a clean install of the operating system. Hmm. Interesting. You know what, I, I suspect that's what he saw. This, this

Mary Jo Foley (00:06:26):
Is, this is kind of interesting because when Microsoft briefed a different reporter at ZD net about this, because I don't really write about security in depth, I try to avoid it as much as I can to be very honest. And

Paul Thurrott (00:06:38):
As, as do we all

Mary Jo Foley (00:06:40):
<Laugh>. So they briefed another reporter, Liam Tongue, who works with us, and, and they basically hinted to him, or I don't know if they said it said this outright, but they were like, Yeah, this new feature is the replacement for Windows tens, Windows 10 and S mode. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I could kind of see that. Right. Like, because Windows 10 es mode was supposed to keep you from downloading, malicious things through the store. Yeah. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:05):
The only thing I would, the problem with that sort of the, that Windows 10 s also was designed to prevent you from running apps that might be poorly made that would affect the performance and or battery life of the system to the Right. Right. True. So in other words, you know, that was the theory. I Yeah. The real reason was so people couldn't install Chrome. I mean, let's be honest about it. Yeah. <Laugh>, that's, that's what it was really for. No, I mean, seriously, like that was it. But yes, I mean, I think the SEC secure, the, when Microsoft could claim that Windows tens was more secure, it was because all of the security problems were coming from desktop apps. Yep. Most of them were probably poorly written or badly written on purpose delivered fee of the web. Right. Yep. But 90% of what we were using was also, you know, desktop apps. So Yeah. Obviously we had issues with tennis. Anyway. That's interesting. Right?

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:00):
Yeah. But this, this feature you're talking about, you also have to kind of think about where it won't make sense and it probably won't make sense for a lot of enterprises because they have a lot of line of business custom apps they wrote and like, what's gonna happen with those and this thing, Right?

Paul Thurrott (00:08:16):
Yeah. They're not signed. Yeah, exactly. That's true. I think what will happen is people will test it, and this is true whether it's a business or an individual mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and you'll run into that one time where you, you say, Well, I, I know this thing is okay and I use it all the time Yeah. And I need it for work and you'll just disable it.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:33):
Yep. Kinda like tennis <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:08:37):
By the way. Exactly. Like tennis. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:40):
The one time you have something and you're like,

Paul Thurrott (00:08:42):
That actually, that actually is where the analogy holds through the Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:46):
That's true. Yep. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:50):
Anyway, but I think we well

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:52):
You brought, you also hinted this on the last show, and I think this is very interesting idea too, is, you know, when Microsoft first announced Windows 11, they didn't really tell us what was new on the security front. Like, we kept saying, is it really more secure? And they're like, Yeah, but they never proved it or really made a case for it. But now they've got these kind of features that are very tied into the hardware and it makes you wonder if this is, you know, like how they said you can, you can install an unsupported PC with Windows 11, but where is this gonna break? Maybe it's gonna break on the security side, right? Like, because people will put it on something that doesn't have the right processor. That's right. And then it'll just not work.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:29):
This is, this is the unknown. You can install Windows 11 very easily on a unsupported hardware. Yeah. And the argument I've been able to make to date is there's no reason not to do it, assuming you're doing it for the right reasons. In other words, you have a sixth or seventh gen intel processor, TPM 1.2 or 2.0 probably it's gonna be fine. That's based on this assumption that Windows 11 and Windows 10 security features are exactly the same because they have been to date. That's gonna change over time, you know, and so we'll see how that goes. Right? Right. I don't expect Microsoft to block updates from those systems, but it might be fair to say you're, you're taking a little bit of a security risk because as the threats that Windows users face change, they'll be addressed in Windows 11 with supported hardware.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:15):
Right. Not on these unsupported systems. So mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, we'll see how that evolves. I mean, right now I think it's fine. We'll see. Yeah, I wish they would come out. I, I'd love to see a, a great post describing all these things. The other thing they need to do is differentiate between individuals and businesses. If you read the the window of 11, you know, 22 H two post about businesses, they do go through a lot of security features, but they don't really explain which ones are available to everyone and which ones are only available to businesses. They also don't explain, and this is something I'm kind of researching for the book and for hands on Windows, the other many security features that are disabled by default, often for privacy reasons, cuz there's data collection involved that you can enable to make the system more secure. And what are the implications of doing that? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, there's just no real all out, you know, here's, here's the security matrix and what it looks like and here's what you can, you still have to do manually to make it better. Here's how Windows 1122 H two is better for everyone or just for businesses or whatever. And I'd love to see some clarity is usually the end of the sentence, but right now, you know, security specifically. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:23):
Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:11:25):
I agree. Someday, maybe.

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:27):
But I'll tell you the biggest surprise for me installing this today was how long it took and how many reboots there were. Because to me this is a big feature update, right? Like this, I would consider this minor. I don't know, you

Paul Thurrott (00:11:42):
Did this from Windows update, right? You were literally I did offered this. Yeah. So off the top of my head, I think I've only seen that happen TWiTce, but my experience as I remember it was that you, you'd said yes to the install, it sat there and did whatever it was doing. So it would download the update, I guess it would install most of the update. And then at some point you get that dialogue that pops up in the bottom corner. It gives you three choices and you could schedule it, you can do it right now. And I don't, The third one is, but I always did it right then cuz I really wanted to see what happened. And I, my memory is that it only rebooted once and it happened pretty quick. And that the long period of time was what it was doing while you were still using Windows. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:23):
Which I,

Paul Thurrott (00:12:24):
That was, was fine because you can still use the computer. Right. Like it's kind of minimize the, the offline part of it, if you will.

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:32):
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I kept working and doing everything. Normally I didn't even feel like it was slowing it down or anything. Right. But then when it finished it just said you need to reboot to finish. Like that's all it said. And so I said, okay. Oh. So I rebooted and then I saw my screen went dark and it, it rebooted a second time and then my battery ran out. So I had to plug it in. <Laugh>, that's that be, could be dicing. I know. I was like, oh, <laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:01):
It's interesting. I've not seen it do anything like that. I wonder if that's the surface thing. I, when Mary Jo told me this morning that she had gotten the update, it made me want to go back to all the computers that I've tested this on to see if there were any differences. I, today, for a variety of reasons, worked out to be extremely busy, so I couldn't do all of them. But I did go back to a couple I the Dragonfly, which is the only PC I've seen, The Windows 1122 H two is coming message on to date. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> doesn't say that anymore. It's just, it doesn't say anything. It's just nothing. It's like, it's like, it's like it doesn't exist. Nevermind. He forget we mentioned <laugh>. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:39):
I guess you only get to have it on one computer cuz I have a, a yoga seven I 16 that I just published a review for today. When I checked for updates on that system today, it said when it's 1122, H two is coming, but not for you. And the same thing, it had to more details. Like it goes to that page where it shows you the blockers and it's just empty. It doesn't have any information. So I have yet to see or hear from anyone who has seen a list of the reasons why Windows 1122 H two is being blocked on their system. For now, it's usually driver related. Right. Something like that. A hardware component you know, someday. Yeah. Right. It's still early days I guess, but

Mary Jo Foley (00:14:18):
Yeah, it was so, it was odd because for a while I was checking, like after our show last week, I'm like, Oh, maybe I should check and see if it's on the surface. Laptop three. And there was no mention of it all. Then I rechecked on the weekend once and I checked yesterday. I'm like, I know I'm living on the edge. I'm being a seeker. But, but it didn't show up. And then today it just showed up and there was no like, it's coming or get ready. It was just like, now it's here, here it is disappeared. You know? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:14:43):
Yeah. Well that made me, that gave me some hope which was, you know, quickly dashed. But I, that's how it's gonna appear for people. I think. Well actually, if the system works, the way it will appear is, you'll see the message I've only seen once or TWiTce now. Twitce now, I guess. Yeah. Which is, hey, it is coming. It's not for your computer yet, but, you know, don't worry, it will come. Yeah. And people just don't, I don't, it's not happening a lot. It's far more far more comment to click on check for updates and to see nothing. I think now that this thing is out, they should at least put that thing up. It's, it's coming. You're just not gonna get it today. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:15:19):
I agree. I saw a thread on TWiTtter over the weekend with somebody saying they had run a PowerShell script and they could tell why their system was blocked. And it said, you have a p you have a processor with Device Guard enabled. I'm like, wait, why would that be blocked? Right. that's

Paul Thurrott (00:15:38):
A good, that's actually, that's really interesting.

Mary Jo Foley (00:15:40):
Yeah. Yeah. And I asked Microsoft on Monday if this was the case, and no one has answered me, Surprise, surprise <laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (00:15:48):
Right. Device Card has enhanced security with Windows 10 and Intel core vPro processors.

Mary Jo Foley (00:15:53):
You would think that would be a plus, not a minus. Right. That they would be building around. That maybe doesn't work with a, Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:16:01):
It, it makes sense that you could through power and shell get that information. It's Yeah. The same thing that Windows update is using mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, why Windows Update doesn't say anything, you know, unclear to me. Yeah. I I have also had two more experiences trying to use No, I'm sorry, one more experience trying to use the installation. God, I forgot the, I don't have it here. The installation update assistant, whatever it's called. If you, if you Google download Windows 11 iso, that will be the first option on the page. It will not install Windows 1122 H two on a computer where you have a blocker. It won't let you bypass it. That's actually, I think that's really,

Mary Jo Foley (00:16:38):
That's not bad

Paul Thurrott (00:16:40):
<Laugh>. It's okay, but here's what's bad. It should say that right up front. But what it does, it doesn't, You go through the whole wizard. You, it takes a long time to download it. It does a long time of installing. And then after about 45 minutes it says, Oh, I'm sorry you have a blocker. We can't do this <laugh>. It's like, you know, there's an order of things that would make a little more sense here. Maybe putting that one up front.

Mary Jo Foley (00:17:00):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> just

Paul Thurrott (00:17:02):
Sign software. But yeah, how I would've done it, because if you use the, what's it called, the PC health checkup, which you actually have to, to use this utility, it will tell you that you're all set because that the utility only affects your hardware, I guess the system requirements, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So you think you're, you think you're good, like, Oh, I'm gonna get through this. Like, no

Mary Jo Foley (00:17:27):
<Laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (00:17:29):
Anywho, it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anything more to say or we are we done on the, the whole, I think that's it for the update. Just that's done. We're done for the update. We'll check in again next week. I'm sure it will

Leo Laporte (00:17:48):
Change every week. How about this new photo? What about this new photo app? Huh? How do you like that? Huh? What do you think about that? Huh? <laugh>? I can't un the of photos app, by the way, after Spotify launch.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:04):
Yeah. I'm

Leo Laporte (00:18:04):
Not surprised by, with this reboot I just went through, I noticed by the way, Disney plus, I don't need that. Amazon Prime don't need that. Are those Dell things or Windows things?

Paul Thurrott (00:18:14):
Those are Windows things. Tiktok will be one of them. They'll be created Sweet Express

Leo Laporte (00:18:19):
Facebooks in there. So these, those

Paul Thurrott (00:18:21):
Are all

Leo Laporte (00:18:21):
Windows puts and those are stubs, right? That's right. Okay. But

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:25):
I didn't get any of those since I installed this. Right. Like it doesn't reinstall the stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:18:31):
No. And so, Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:32):
Oh, actually I wouldn't promise that. But <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:18:35):
You

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:35):
Might, It's not, not

Paul Thurrott (00:18:37):
Mine. I

Leo Laporte (00:18:37):
Don't mean that. I'm like none

Paul Thurrott (00:18:38):
Of those that's trying to be funny. Right. But you might find that they do return over time.

Leo Laporte (00:18:43):
Yeah. These things happen. You did the Yeah, these things happen. We just look for, So, so we, I think this is before the show, we talked about the fact that some people have reported that Spotify all of a sudden starts up when you beat your machine. And that seems to to be that it's, the stub has self-install and put it, not only that put itself in the startup menu. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:19:03):
And the only one I've heard that happening with is Spotify. But the reason you notice it is because Spotify is unique in a way because it does try to start up automatically with Windows for some reason. Yeah. That's a goofy thing to do. But that's what it does. It's an

Leo Laporte (00:19:18):
Unwelcome presence since I don't have a Spotify account. So, or, or a Facebook account or, you know, I can on, on. So I just deleted all those stubs, but I, Yeah, there's no reason. And I, while I was at it, I thought, well, I don't really need, you know, a few of these other things that Microsoft installs, like Notepad, who uses that? So, hey. Wow. Just kidding. I kept notepad just for you, but I, I, You

Paul Thurrott (00:19:41):
Cannot uninstall photos.

Leo Laporte (00:19:42):
Can't install photos. Photos is a, I

Paul Thurrott (00:19:44):
Mean, I I life sort of understand that because you need a way to view images. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:19:49):
Yeah, yeah. I understand. No, I completely understand that. If it's part of the, you know, woven into the os you can, I'm sure you, I don't remember the install edge either,

Paul Thurrott (00:19:58):
Right? Well, yeah. So you can, I don't remember. This happened sometime during, when some Windows 10 version, they extend the number of built in apps that you can unins install. So if you go through the start menu, it's like clock, notepad, calculator. Okay. Paint extra. There's a bunch that you can want.

Leo Laporte (00:20:18):
Clock <laugh>. Yeah. By the way, these were all pinned so it was easy to find them anyway.

Paul Thurrott (00:20:25):
Yep. Yep. So I think Mary Jo was talking last week about how there's a set of updates coming in October or November that will be part of 22 H two that we're not getting today. And this new photos app is one of those things. I, I don't know why they would include it in that list because it's just an app. It could be updated at any time. But now they're testing that version of the app in the insider preview in the dev channel. So basically they've changed the ui. It's more of a normal Windows 11 style app with the navigation bar on the side instead of top mounted links. And they got rid of the internal video editor, which was kind of garbage anyway. But now they have Clip Champ was, which as we know, been excellent if ridiculously named video editor <laugh>. So we'll assume that you're gonna use that for video

Leo Laporte (00:21:11):
Editing. Yeah. Yeah. Good. And I am, I

Paul Thurrott (00:21:13):
Don't know who uses like Photos app to do old fashiony things like download picture from a camera or a device, like to your computer.

Leo Laporte (00:21:22):
I think if you plug camera in, it will auto launch unless you do it otherwise. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:27):
Yep. I'm just saying, it seems to me those are most expensive use cases are going away. Or

Leo Laporte (00:21:32):
Really I would be, Most people do that. You're thinking they're installing some other app for their photography.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:38):
I don't think they're putting 'em on their computer at all. I think what people are doing is they're not downloading them, or sorry, thinking them to a cloud service, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, if you for example, look, if you're a Microsoft guy or whatever and you really want to use Microsoft Services and everything you can back it up to OneDrive automatically. And when you do that, you'll see them in Windows 11 in the photos app automatically. They're just there. You don't have to download them to your computer. So. Right. I just feel like this is, I mean, I'm 55 years old and I don't do this. How old do you have to be to want to do this <laugh>? It's kind of an old fashioned thing. Like, I dunno,

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:14):
It's like writing. So

Paul Thurrott (00:22:15):
Obviously they're a professional <laugh>. Yes. Right. Exactly. They're a professional photographer. I know there're always use, I, I know there are reasons, but I think most, most people

Leo Laporte (00:22:23):
Just don't need it. So Michael, our 19 year old for years, almost 20 by the way, in November. Yeah. obviously he's had a bank account, but no checking account. We didn't bother getting checks. Right. Then all of a sudden the union says, send us a check.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:37):
<Laugh>. I, Yeah. So like, send us a voided check. I'm like a check <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:22:42):
Voided check. I'll send you an old timey pone picture of a

Leo Laporte (00:22:46):
Check. What

Paul Thurrott (00:22:47):
Are you talking about?

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:48):
I had to go buy counter checks. Yeah. We had to buy check needed avoided checks. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:22:52):
We had to buy checks. It's so funny. It's so funny.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:56):
Yeah. But I feel like that's the photos thing, right? Like people used to just go like, after your vacation, that's what you do camera and to your pc and like get your photo, your

Leo Laporte (00:23:04):
Point shoot in. They'd

Paul Thurrott (00:23:06):
Go M Apple got a lot more credit for this than Microsoft. But in the same month of the same year, both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs used some version of the phrase, the PC is now the center of your digital life. Yes. And you sync all your devices to it. It was the, it was the middle of all the spokes. Right. It lives in the middle. And then over time it became just one of many devices in the cloud was in the middle. And that's true. Where they use iPhone and Apple stuff or if you use Google and whatever, if you use Microsoft devices Cloud is, you know, is in the center of this. So you, like I said, if you're a Microsoft guy, you might wanna put that stuff up in one drive. I, my photos in One Drive and Google Drive a Google Photos rather. I'm sure a lot of Apple people put them in iCloud, you know, God help you. Well that's

Leo Laporte (00:23:51):
Funny. <Laugh> <laugh>,

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:53):
I put mine in Google Photos. That's where mine are.

Leo Laporte (00:23:56):
Yeah. In a sensible spot. I might at,

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:59):
I mean, you take 'em on your Android phone, where you gonna put

Leo Laporte (00:24:03):
'Em? Yeah. Yeah. <Laugh>. I, I've been trying to think. Yeah, most people probably their photos are on their phone. Yeah. So they didn't even think about

Paul Thurrott (00:24:10):
It. And Amazon has free unlimited storage. If you're a Prime customer, you can put 'em

Mary Jo Foley (00:24:13):
On too. I know, I, I keep thinking about this cuz I'm like, I am an Amazon Prime customer, so probably I should do that. Right. That makes more sense. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:24:20):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:20):
No reason not to. But both the problem for people, if you're a Yeah, but not see my thing is like, well, okay, but I have like 3 trillion photos I took before today and I really want those everywhere too. So what's that look like? Well, if you had started

Leo Laporte (00:24:34):
At the beginning, you would've had them all and everywhere. So, reason I like Amazon is if you're an Amazon Prime customer, they store the originals. So I do, I do the Amazon, I do the Google. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. And

Paul Thurrott (00:24:46):
I do originals on Amazon, I mean on Google. But yet, you know, you, you

Leo Laporte (00:24:50):
Prefer a Yeah, I pay for the insurance. It's not too expensive. I get it anyway, cuz we use

Paul Thurrott (00:24:55):
These are my pictures, you know, like, I mean

Leo Laporte (00:24:57):
Right. It's

Paul Thurrott (00:24:57):
Worth it. Yeah. Pay for

Leo Laporte (00:24:59):
It's, I have in fact in the past, but restored all my pictures from Google Photos, grateful that I had a copy there. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Cause my I screwed up somehow and synchronized an empty folder to my

Paul Thurrott (00:25:11):
Folder. I will. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:25:12):
<Laugh>, whoops.

Paul Thurrott (00:25:13):
In the old days, in the old days when used to download photos to a computer and organize them into fo folder structures. Now of course quiet, they were super logical. And then you could upload those later or at any time to like One Drive or some other service, if you upload stuff like that to Google Photos, they just go as like a, you know, giant collection of photos and they, and they rely on search to find things and all that kind of stuff. But if you uploaded them OneDrive, like they're still there in that folder format. And I gotta say, it's, it's pretty nice, you know, A friend of mine literally this past week contacted me and said, Hey, do you remember when this photo was taken? And I said, Yes, I do. And I went back to one Drive, I went to 1988, I went down to the, you know, found the event and I'm like, this is where we were. This is what we were doing. I sent him a free more photos.

Leo Laporte (00:25:56):
Isn't that great? I do that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. You know? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:00):
A little harder with the modern,

Leo Laporte (00:26:02):
That's where Google sings. Although Apple does that, does Microsoft's photos do that kind of stuff?

Paul Thurrott (00:26:09):
Yeah, you can. That's what I used actually. I used Wonder.

Leo Laporte (00:26:12):
Okay. Well, so you, you could does it do people? Yep, it does. Places

Paul Thurrott (00:26:18):
Places things, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:26:20):
Whatever. Oh good. And that's, and it's doing that locally or is it doing on the, on the cloud?

Paul Thurrott (00:26:25):
No, it's up in the cloud.

Leo Laporte (00:26:26):
Okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:26):
I actually, I often find going to the cloud is the best solution. Sometimes I'll try to use an app on my phone, which is terrible cuz it's so small. Or just going through the file system of Windows and inevitably like no, no, no. It's like a lot of web browser. I'm just going and it's like you like right in there, like really quick. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:44):
Okay. This just in while we're talking about photos. Yes. Microsoft just got back about the device card

Leo Laporte (00:26:50):
Question. Oh

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:51):
Yes. Microsoft has looked into this issue and they are aware, aware of it and working to address it. So it is correct if you have a device card enabled processor you may be running into. So

Paul Thurrott (00:27:04):
It's not, it's something they will fix. This is not a

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:06):
Permanent, They said we are aware and working to fix it.

Leo Laporte (00:27:09):
Yeah. That I could see that happening. That's yeah. That's understandable.

Paul Thurrott (00:27:15):
Well good.

Leo Laporte (00:27:16):
Well good. Fine. Okay. If that's how you're gonna be <laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:21):
It's funny cuz people, so many times Paul and I hear from people like, I don't want this. I I don't wanna get this update. I don't want this feature. This one. Everybody's like, Why can't I get 22 H two? I'm not even being offered it. What can't I get it? What's the reason? <Laugh>, this is,

Paul Thurrott (00:27:36):
That's a beautiful microcosm of what's wrong with the world. You

Leo Laporte (00:27:39):
Know,

Paul Thurrott (00:27:40):
It's like, if if they, if they give it to you, don't want it. If they don't give it to you, you want it, You know, it's like, course, if you're getting all of your feedback from TWiTtter, it's gonna be 99%

Leo Laporte (00:27:49):
Negative. That's, that's problem. You never, ever, It is get feedback from TWiTtter. Ever.

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:53):
Now we get 'em from emails too. Like, people are like, Why do you think I'm not getting this update? I'm like, I have no idea why you're not getting it. <Laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:00):
Well sacrifice the chicken and get the smoke going anymore. Let

Mary Jo Foley (00:28:03):
You know <laugh>. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:07):
Okay. Okay. Very exciting. I have now made clock a big part of my task mark since I Oh. Mentioned clock. And I saw it's not in my pin thing. Well, clock

Paul Thurrott (00:28:19):
Is also a big part of the focused focus, I guess it's called. There's

Leo Laporte (00:28:23):
A new focus

Paul Thurrott (00:28:24):
Situation in Windows 11.

Leo Laporte (00:28:26):
Yeah. There's like this whole, that's the first by

Paul Thurrott (00:28:28):
The integrates with Spotify, which is probably why that damn thing on with

Leo Laporte (00:28:32):
That one <laugh>. Maybe I want Clock to auto open, not Spotify.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:36):
Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:38):
Edge has I'm very happy about this. Edge has a plan to make PWA more a equal citizen.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:46):
I shouldn't have called it a plan. They're actually just doing it. So, and to be clear, this isn't just for Edge. This is, Microsoft is part of an industry group that is called the Web Capabilities Project, along with all the other major browser makers that are, you know, trying to further the web and make it better.

Leo Laporte (00:29:03):
Even Apple is in this, or No,

Paul Thurrott (00:29:05):
I didn't say that, Leo. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:29:07):
<Laugh>. Cause Safari is not known for its pwa.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:11):
Yeah. No it's not. No. <laugh>. No, I'm not, I'm not sure that they're in, I don't believe they're part of. But certainly Google and Mozilla and the thing, what they're trying to do is advance the web, obviously to make the capabilities more native and to make this work across platform. So the, the thing I'm talking about here is not just for Windows. It's not just an edge. It works on Linux and Mac. It will work in other browsers as well. And every native operating system handles this capability a little bit differently. But I understand how it works in Windows very well. Because this is a challenge if you're writing Windows applications. So in the old days, you'd have like a Windows app. It was this kind of rectangular thing, title bar at the top, couple of window control buttons in there. Maybe a menu, a toolbar, and then whatever the main part of the application was.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:58):
But apps are different now, and they can, you can put all kinds of things up in the top there. And for example, I'm using Brave, I think Chrome probably works this way too. The, the cabs are in the, they're in what used to be called the title bar, right? They're right at the top of the app. And this requires writing app a certain way. It's a, it's a native capability. You can do this on all of those operating systems, not just Windows, Linux and Mac as well. To do this in Windows with a modern app framework, basically uwp or Windows app SDK is actually for, you know, pretty difficult. But you can do it. So you can put things up there like menu bars custom titles, account information, PS like I said, other UI elements, whatever. It's, so what they're doing now, Microsoft, the Edge team and more broadly with the industry, is bringing that capability to web app.

Paul Thurrott (00:30:46):
So if you go to a web app, you say, I wanna run this as an app on Windows or some other platform. It, you know, goes in this kind of Chrome list window, but it has the title bar <laugh> and it has those window controls and that's it. There's no way for that web app to customize the top of that thing. And that's what this does. So they've, they've added this, They have a name for it. It's called the Window controls overlay feature. And this will allow PWAs to display custom content and what used to be the title bar called the title bar area, instead of being forced to use the default experience. So just a little, you know, another baby step toward making these things more mobile. I'm sorry, more native, like, regardless of which platform they run on.

Leo Laporte (00:31:23):
Yeah. Good. Nice. Good. Linux and on Mac. But Mac with Edge

Paul Thurrott (00:31:30):
Or other browsers, I mean, it will, it will come in Safari eventually.

Leo Laporte (00:31:35):
I think, you know what's pushing Apple in that direction? They did add some more PWA capabilities is any trust action. Sure. And so mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, If, if, you know, if you lock out something like that I think that that means makes you look more pred than if you just say, Oh yeah, anybody could run anything they want with Peter.

Paul Thurrott (00:31:54):
Oh yeah. I'm sorry. You, you're saying that if you act poorly,

Leo Laporte (00:31:58):
You could get in trouble.

Paul Thurrott (00:31:59):
You could get in trouble. Yeah. Right. So it makes you look like you are not like the way you market yourself.

Leo Laporte (00:32:06):
Your wordss not mine, but Yes, exactly right. <Laugh>. Yeah. But it's all about posturing. Don't don't tell me that. I mean, everybody does this right. You know, I mean Apple did this before with Microsoft. When, when Microsoft put in its, I mean, Microsoft did it with Apple, I should say. When, when Bill Gates put 150 million into Apple, it was because if Apple fails, then they look more like a monopoly. So every mm-hmm. It, you know, it

Paul Thurrott (00:32:33):
That worked out for Microsoft. That worked out

Leo Laporte (00:32:35):
Great. Did it? Worked out well. <Laugh>. Whoops.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:38):
Thanks. Thank you. You Microsoft for the iPhone. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Whoops. Thank you.

Leo Laporte (00:32:42):
Apple was, I've heard it said just months away from bankruptcy when, when Bill put in that money.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:50):
That's right. They would've, they would've, they didn't have enough money to last through

Leo Laporte (00:32:53):
The rest of the year. No, no runway. Yeah. 1998 or whatever. Hard to believe. And it was like six or eight. Yeah. It was when Steve came back, Right? When Steve came back. Yeah. Jock Boston. You don't know who Steve is. Mac roll Boston. That, that hulking picture. Bill Gates

Paul Thurrott (00:33:09):
Like you

Leo Laporte (00:33:09):
Looking down upon everybody. Hello. Hey, let's take a little tiny teeny team. 1 18 18, he break and come back with more Paul Thro, Mary Joe Foley. We're talking windows to all our winners and dozers. I like it. And we're gonna have both from now on, not just dozers, but you're all winners in my book. Our show today, brought to you by Lenovo, orchestrated by the experts at cdw, The helpful people at cdw. Understand as the world changes, your organization needs to adapt quickly to be successful. So how can C d w help your business? Stay ahead of the curve Lenovo. Think pets. Love the think pets. These powerful devices deliver the business class performance. Your are looking for thanks to Windows 10 and the Intel Evo platform. With your remote teams working across the country and around the world, collaboration isn't a problem because Lenovo think pads keep your organization productive and connected from anywhere.

Leo Laporte (00:34:12):
Plus CDW knows your workforce has, you know, different work styles needs flexibility, which is why Lenovo think pads are equipped with responsive tools and built in features that let your team work seamlessly across their favorite tools. Now think about that for a second. Oh, let's not forget security. These high performing machines protect at the highest level with built in hardware to guard against modern threats without slowing your team down. When you need to get more out of your technology, Lenovo makes seamless productivity possible and CDW makes it powerful. Learn more at cdw.com/lenovo client. Thank you Cdw n Lenovo for supporting your guys. Your, your, your, your your team, Mr. Paul, Th Ms. Mary Jo Foley and all of Windows Weekly. On we go with the show. Let's talk, speaking of Intel about Windows, iPhone, Interop. I'm quoting you here. Somebody mm-hmm. <Affirmative> Paul.

Paul Thurrott (00:35:22):
I know it sounds like an

Leo Laporte (00:35:23):
Oxymoron. It doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem possible. It doesn't. What can Intel do to help?

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:28):
Well, if you've been using Phone Link from Microsoft

Leo Laporte (00:35:32):
Yeah. Which I love, but it pretty much is a Samsung feature.

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:35):
It's a Samsung thing. Yeah. And a Surface Duo thing for like the three people of a surface duo. Right? Right. Microsoft tried, they couldn't get it to work with iPhone because Apple basically blocked them from being able to access the APIs they needed. Right. To, to share photos and contacts and apps. So

Leo Laporte (00:35:54):
What, did Apple make an excuse for this bad behavior or

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:57):
No? No, Apple doesn't acknowledged it publicly, I don't believe, but <laugh>. But yesterday at their innovation event, the Intel Innovation event, they announced something called Unison an app which is going to do basically what Phone Link was supposed to do. Let people connect their phones to their Windows PCs and make phone calls, send texts, transfer files, transfer photos, do all the things the phone link was supposed to do. And it's supposed to work on iOS and Android. They're using this technology they bought from an Israeli startup called Screen of eight to do this. And screen of eight is the company that developed Dell Mobile Connect, which was the one example of a product like this that actually worked. So I'm, I'm kind of hopeful that this could be the magic sauce we need. But there's only certain PCs this is gonna work on.

Mary Jo Foley (00:36:56):
So it's gonna start rolling out this holiday on 12th generation Intel core Evo PCs that are going to, going to first come from Acer, HP, and Lenovo. And then more PCs will be added in when the 13th generation of the Intel processors are available, which is next year. So it's, I don't know if they're gonna get all the features all at once, but I'm, I'm hopeful. I, I'm kind of excited. This might be something I could use. Cuz right now the way I do this is I use Google Messages on my PC and that's how I connect to text back and forth. But that's

Leo Laporte (00:37:33):
The web app, right? You use the web app, right? Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:37:36):
The web app. Great. That's what

Leo Laporte (00:37:37):
I, that's how I do it. Yeah, that me too. Yeah, that works fine. Yeah. I mean it's

Mary Jo Foley (00:37:40):
Okay. Yeah, it works good, but it, it doesn't let you do the other things like answer a phone call or make a phone call or like, so Right. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:37:49):
There was no

Leo Laporte (00:37:50):
It know, in theory it does and well, I'm on P so I should qualify that. Oh,

Mary Jo Foley (00:37:56):
Okay. If you're on fi. So I, I don't even, I don't even know my calls or like coming in or available or making calls.

Leo Laporte (00:38:03):
So when I launch messages, and again, it says Google Fi, but it's messages do google.com on the left there's a button that says calls and voicemail. I bet you that's cuz I'm a P customer.

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:13):
Yeah. I don't have that.

Leo Laporte (00:38:15):
Interesting. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (00:38:16):
I have an iPhone, so I don't see any of that, but that's cute. Yeah, <laugh>, so un until recently Dell had this app obviously that did this. And are you saying that they bought the company that Dell was using and that they took it away from Dell? Oh, that's, Dell no longer offers this. As of August, they alerted all their customers, This is going away.

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:36):
Right. So I believe screen of eight is the company that created the technology that was Dell Mobile Connect.

Leo Laporte (00:38:42):
Oh my God.

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:43):
Yeah. And so then Intel bought that company screen of eight. Now they're like, Hey, look what we have, we have this cool app that we could integrate with PCs and make mobile part of the whole not

Paul Thurrott (00:38:55):
Partner with Microsoft to make Windows better. Huh? Okay. Well that's fine. That's fine. <Laugh>, So we want it on more computers than just Dell's. And we also want them not on computers made by AMD or Qualcom is what I just heard. Pretty

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:07):
Much. Pretty much. Okay. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:10):
Here you go.

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:10):
It's called Competitive Advantage.

Leo Laporte (00:39:14):
Hmm. Wow. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:17):
Hmm.

Leo Laporte (00:39:18):
Or Anti. So

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:19):
If you're Qualcomm, If you're Qualcomm now you're like, I need an app like this. Right. For Arm. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:24):
<Laugh>, I don't understand. So obviously this company from Israel, by the way, not the first time a company from Israel has bailed on Intel, but this company from Israel has figured out something that Microsoft can't figure out. Yep. I, I'm curious about this. A company I know

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:38):
How do resources Great. How do the iPhones work with this

Paul Thurrott (00:39:42):
<Laugh>? That's what I'm saying. I I don't understand how Microsoft can't make this work.

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:46):
I

Paul Thurrott (00:39:46):
Don't know because the, whatever, whatever your phone is called now, Phone Link or what's it called?

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:53):
Phone

Paul Thurrott (00:39:53):
Exchange, whatever it's called, is

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:55):
Used to be your phone. The iPhone. It was my phone. Then it was your phone then it was Phone Link. <Laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:02):
Crazy.

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:03):
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:05):
Okay.

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:06):
So I, I don't know. But yeah, I, I just, I really hope they can make it work. That'd be cool.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:13):
They do too.

Leo Laporte (00:40:14):
Yeah. Yep. It works great with Samsung.

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:17):
It does great. You

Paul Thurrott (00:40:18):
Know,

Leo Laporte (00:40:19):
It, it's,

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:20):
Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:22):
But that's, Leo probably does. I don't know. I don't understand. So the way Apple does things, if you're all Apple, right? There's a feature of, I guess it's a iCloud or something that allows you to get things done under device if you have an iPhone, Mac,

Leo Laporte (00:40:35):
Ipad, iPhone. Yep. All the same messages. Every,

Paul Thurrott (00:40:38):
And so it's a seamless experience, right? Absolutely. Yes. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> it is, it is a plotting Microsoft way of doing things to create a really complex app with lots of different endpoints that everything's in one place. And it's like, rather than you're getting a phone call, here's a thing that pops up. Right. You know

Leo Laporte (00:40:54):
And messages for MAP is on all the platforms as well. In fact, that's one of the advantages Apple has now moving to this arm based platform. Yeah. Is they don't even have to rewrite the apps they've written for the iPhone and the iPad. They just run on the Mac mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So they've completely solved that end to end problem and it's in their interest. Cause it's ecosystem lock in. Microsoft doesn't have the same motivation to do ecosystem lock and they don't even have a phone.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:18):
Well they don't have the They can't. They can't. Right. There's no way to Yeah. They

Leo Laporte (00:41:22):
Can do it. So there's less, less incentive. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:26):
Right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:41:26):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:29):
Neat.

Mary Jo Foley (00:41:31):
I blame Apple. It's gonna

Leo Laporte (00:41:32):
Blame Apple. I have to say that's a great

Paul Thurrott (00:41:34):
Way of work. Well it is that it is that rude an Apple problem. But, but

Leo Laporte (00:41:38):
You see it is this

Paul Thurrott (00:41:40):
Company worked

Leo Laporte (00:41:40):
Around it. Apple's not gonna do it because, because Lock In means live. Why would they? Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:47):
Listen. they should just allow this and because the experience is always gonna be worse and then they can just make fun of it. That's say, look, if you want like a seamless integration,

Leo Laporte (00:41:55):
Itunes for Windows was a great advertisement for, for a Mac <laugh>. Oh my God.

Paul Thurrott (00:42:00):
By the way, I loaded iTunes recently on Windows for some reason. I don't remember what the, there was a reason for it. Itunes is the Doggiest dog of applications ever made, ever. It is. It can turn the most powerful computer Yeah. Into a TER 64 immediately. Like it's ridiculous how bad it is. I know they haven't updated it in a long time. But this thing was never really any good. I mean, after the very beginning, I mean got bigger and blo or, and you know, more horrible over time. It is the worst app ever made. It's a great app. It's a great advertisement for a Mac. Although actually iTunes on a Mac is pretty bad too.

Leo Laporte (00:42:37):
I haven't tried, I should try it. There is an Apple TV app for Windows. I should try that. And an Apple TV app. <Laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because yeah, I just looked. So it's gotta

Paul Thurrott (00:42:50):
Just be the web interface, isn't it?

Leo Laporte (00:42:52):
You know, they, what's weird is Apple kind of broke their, their tradition by offering Apple TV plus for TVs For Roku. Yeah. And it, it was a mistake because it's terrible. It's exactly as you said. Oh, wait a minute. I don't, I apologize. I can only install this in the Xbox. It's in the store. I apologize. It's not for Windows. It's for

Paul Thurrott (00:43:16):
No, it's okay. I wasn't, Yeah, I, I didn't recall.

Leo Laporte (00:43:17):
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah,

Paul Thurrott (00:43:19):
Yeah. I think the Apple TV app for other platforms lacks a few things that you get on an Apple TV device. Like I think like movie special features and not available, that kind of thing.

Leo Laporte (00:43:29):
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. I mean it's so you can watch their streaming service and I think they, and this is the same thing they did with iTunes Yeah. Ideas. In fact, it sold a lot of iPods. They realized that most iPod, most iPod users were Windows users. They also know, by the way, that most I most iPhone users are Windows users users.

Paul Thurrott (00:43:48):
Yeah. Probably so true today.

Leo Laporte (00:43:49):
Yeah. Well I think it

Paul Thurrott (00:43:51):
Is. Well I, I would imagine Apple TV on Smart TVs or whatever devices is probably there primarily they can rent a movie, you know, I would think. Mm-Hmm.

Leo Laporte (00:44:01):
No. So you can watch their streaming. So you can watch Apple TV plus, Oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:05):
I'm sorry. Of course. No, right. Or I'm sorry. That's okay. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:44:08):
That that's, I think that's their main, Cause that's a, that's a monthly fee, you know, that's a subscription,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:12):
Right? Yep.

Leo Laporte (00:44:14):
But again it, you know, like I said, it's a weird thing to say most iPhone owners are Windows users. So that's,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:24):
You think they would treat those people with a little more respect.

Leo Laporte (00:44:26):
It's a strong argument. You know, they had to persuade Steve Jobs to put, put iTunes on Windows when they did. Sure. It iPods

Paul Thurrott (00:44:34):
Took off. They briefly put Safari on Windows. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:44:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. That's gone. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:39):
I think they could make, I mean I think they're making a mistake not putting their iMessage app, whatever it's called, messages on Android devices. I think that would be something people would pay for. Yeah. Even on a monthly basis. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:44:53):
You know, they just,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:55):
They're just

Leo Laporte (00:44:55):
Different. But but in fact, we know this cuz in the discovery, in the Epic versus Apple trial we saw emails from Apple executives saying we can't put messages on Android. And

Paul Thurrott (00:45:09):
I'm sure cause it breaks through the lock in.

Leo Laporte (00:45:12):
Cause then nobody would buy, They literally said nobody would buy an iPhone for their kids <laugh>. And when and when Tim Cook was asked at all things d at the de conference rather the other day about this blue bubble green bubble issue, he said just, you know, tell your grandma to buy an iPhone. So

Paul Thurrott (00:45:26):
That's there is actually press press. Right. So this precedent for a better answer to that question, and I think this actually came from Steve Jobs. You might remember the incident, but somebody, something, something about an iPhone happened. Some guy complained to Steve Jobs in one of those after event sitting on stools. Yeah. And Steve Jobs pointed to one of the PR people and said, give that guy an iPhone. And what he should have, what Tim Cook should have said, it would've been no better than what he said other than the PR angle is when he said, my grandmother blah blah blah. He, Tim Cook should said, Send me an email. Give me

Leo Laporte (00:46:00):
Your name. That would've been a, a much more

Paul Thurrott (00:46:02):
Winning answer. Right. It would've been the same answer. But because then the follow up would've been, well yeah that's cute, but would've about everyone else. And he could've said, We think people should buy iPhones. It would've been a much kinder version of what is ultimately the same exact answer.

Leo Laporte (00:46:16):
Right. I agree. That's, you knows a good way to spin

Paul Thurrott (00:46:18):
It, Bill. It was silly of him not,

Leo Laporte (00:46:20):
But it's, you know, it's a good way to spin

Paul Thurrott (00:46:21):
It. Yeah, no, I know. But the way he did that was actually very poor for someone in his position with his experience. It, it's crazy that that's what came

Leo Laporte (00:46:28):
Out. His I'm sure deeply regrets it cuz that was the headline everywhere. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's just like Steve Bomber stamping on that iPhone at the developer's conference many years ago. Yeah. I

Paul Thurrott (00:46:40):
I enjoyed that. But yeah, I see what

Leo Laporte (00:46:42):
You're saying. <Laugh> yeah. I mean sometimes the truth leaks through, you know, you can't be perfect. You can't be a hundred percent co

Paul Thurrott (00:46:53):
I wonder if they they must have eventually built bomber resistance into iPhones.

Leo Laporte (00:46:57):
<Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:46:59):
Prevent the stomping <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:47:02):
He's the guy who laughed when they said Apple's making an iPhone.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:06):
Well he, let's put that in perspective. Cause he, the thing he laughed about with a piece. Correct. Price. Like

Leo Laporte (00:47:13):
The

Paul Thurrott (00:47:13):
Price. Yeah. Yeah. And they lower within a month. Yeah. Within a month they dropped a price. Yeah. So people always forget that little important part of that history. Like, oh, the biggest success of the world. How stupid would say, Well, hold on a second. Yeah. This thing would never iPhone sales had dropped off a cliff. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:29):
Cause the device was too expensive. Just like you said, let's please not forget that.

Leo Laporte (00:47:34):
Mm-Hmm.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:34):
<Affirmative> also Go Clippers. Anyway, <laugh>. 

Leo Laporte (00:47:38):
Do we ever hear from Steve at all anymore? I don't even hear from

Paul Thurrott (00:47:41):
Him in the, Not unless you're on ESPN Clipper

Leo Laporte (00:47:44):
Tv, you know. Yeah. Do does he, does he talk about the Clippers? Cuz I I don't even hear that anymore.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:49):
Oh yeah. No, he's as insane about them as he was about Microsoft. If you, it's if you like that developer, developer stuff. Yep. He's just as nuts. He

Leo Laporte (00:47:56):
Gotta have a hobby. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. Let's see. Oh wow. Now I'm gonna cry. Swift Key is Microsoft bought Swift Key, which was a really nice keyboard. In fact, it was the first one I used, maybe not the first, but was one that I used with the swipe.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:17):
Yeah. It was one of the early big ones for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:48:20):
Microsoft bought it and now they're killing it for iPhone. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:23):
Yeah. Just for iOS. They're keeping it for Android. I, this is funny. A reader asked Paul and I on TWiTtter about a couple weeks ago. He said, Hey, what do you guys know about Swift Key for iOS? It feels like Microsoft hasn't updated it in like a year and Right. So I asked Microsoft no answer came back till the, this morning and they said, Yep, we're, we're deprecating. It, it's gonna be delisted from the Apple Apps store October 5th and it'll keep working on your device until you manually uninstall it or you get a new device and that's it. We're, we're done. Like not doing it. And so I tried to get them to say why I, I said, Okay, even how about on background? Off the record, not for attribution, any of those. Like why are you guys doing this? My guess is because Apple blocked you in some way from doing some integration you wanted and the guy's like, we're not saying anything. Go away <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:49:15):
So

Paul Thurrott (00:49:16):
I, because I, you know, I'm using an iPhone and struggled this year with a couple different things Yeah. Than Apple does on the iPhone. And one of the things that's terrible and has not been fixed by I 16 despite here in entree is voice, voice commands or voice. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> typing actually. So I, I still to this day, I've had an iPhone since day one. I find it very hard to type on a small keyboard, small screen. And so I, I I speak my text. Right. And so Mary Jo knows, cuz I, I do this to you all the time, I'll be at the gym or something and you'll get this. I say remember actually I wanna say one classic one. I let it go through cuz it was so stupid. And I was like, I just want you to see how terrible iPhone transcription is. It's awful. So since that event, actually that might have been the impetus for this. I switched to G board the Google keyboard and iOS mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.

Mary Jo Foley (00:50:05):
Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:05):
And my, my on my memory from years ago, cause I've used many iPhones over the years, is that third party keyboards always were kind of terrible on the iPhone for some reason. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's been fine. I will say it's been reliable. It's worked normally the only thing that's weird about it is the thing I want to use, the reason I'm using it actually, it's not just this, it's also autocorrect is really bad for some reason. But anyway, but sticking to just voice typing. Do voice typing from G Board and an iPhone. You click the microphone button, the app switches to a different app, listens to you talk, and then too soon goes back because I'm often not done. Like if you pause for like half a second mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's like, oh, you're done. And then it goes back to the app and then it heats it into the thing. So it's a little ponderous. And I bet that you're right that Microsoft had some integration they were doing, they wanted something to be seamless and it either wouldn't work at all or was something like, well I'm experiencing, which is, it works, but it works by launching another app and then coming back and it's, it's better from like a reliability perspective, like, you know, the, the, the correctness of the, what I'm saying, or whatever transcribed. But it's, you know, it's ponderous because Apple. Right. Cause Apple, I think Apple blocks down things, you know?

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:25):
Right. That's my guess. I mean, I can't say it definitively. There could be other reasons. I mean, don't really go, gotta be, we don't know for sure. But it, it was interesting because there was a Reddit thread from a month ago that this same reader pointed you and I to, and he said, Look at this Reddi thread. And people are like, Maybe maybe Apples do Microsoft because they're not updating the app and maybe it's Microsoft's fault. And I'm like, I don't know what happened. But when Microsoft bought Swift Key in 2016, they said very blatantly, like, we're continuing the apps for iOS and Android. Because at that time, their strategy to try to stay relevant and mobile was to buy up some of the most successful iOS and Android mobile phone app vendors. That's what they were doing. Right. And they were trying to buy who's

Paul Thurrott (00:52:15):
Like the phone. But this is an important one. Cause this is something that sits between you, the user and the phone maker. Right? Right. And it knows what you're typing in. So it can feed their kind of AI stuff, Cortana back and the day, whatever. And, you know, assuming they allow you to do that, like if it's an actual Opal pla open platform, you've, you've inserted something between you and Apple, which you could understand why Apple would not be super happy about. Right. So, you know, I think they make the capabilities less pronounced than is possible, say on Android.

Leo Laporte (00:52:43):
Mm-Hmm.

Mary Jo Foley (00:52:43):
<Affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But they, they're continuing with the Android app, no surprise. Since they're all in on Android at Microsoft. So it's sounds funny you say that, but they are <laugh>, so Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:58):
Oh, well,

Leo Laporte (00:52:58):
Hey, guess what?

Paul Thurrott (00:53:01):
No, no.

Leo Laporte (00:53:01):
What the 13th generation of Intel chips is here.

Paul Thurrott (00:53:08):
Actually, I know that 12th gen piece of junky to spot Leo, it's not a

Leo Laporte (00:53:12):
<Laugh>. So I would really love to see some qu confirmation of what Intel's claiming. Did you see that? They said the I nine? Yeah. At 20, what was it? 24, 25 watts is as fast as the i as my 12th gen at 241 Watts. Boy, if they're really getting that kind of savings,

Paul Thurrott (00:53:31):
That's pretty, I just want everyone to remember. Yeah. For the past several months now, I've been saying I review a lot of laptops and I've seen a lot of weird stuff with these 12th 10 chip sets. Oh, really? Lot of performance issues. Oh, really? So, and I know that I am not a hardware guy, and I, people keep coming to me and say, No, Paul, blah blah, whatever. But here's the thing. Here's what I know just from, from real world experience. And, and then I have these suppositions that I make based on this. Intel used to have U series processors that were 15. Watson did everything. There were in every computer that I reviewed, basically with rare exception. And then for high performance with dedicated graph, you can get like an H series processor with the 12th gen. They put a P series in between.

Paul Thurrott (00:54:11):
And they, but you gotta remember, 12th gen, they've switched this hybrid architecture. They have performance and efficiency cores now. So it's a completely different architecture. I think that for Intel with this new architecture to get the performance they were getting with you series, we had to go to a, a higher wattage part with more, you know, well more cars part of it. And that was the only way to do it. And that impacts battery life. And I think these Pser processors, which are now incredibly mainstream, what uses series used to be thing that's in most computers are getting the same performance and worse battery life, because it's the first time they've done this ar well, it's the first time they've done it in a mainstream sense. I know they've had a couple of gens of earlier things, but there is no doubt in my mind that as we move forward, 13, 14, whatever gen this is gonna improve.

Paul Thurrott (00:54:58):
And when you look at these 13 gen chips, which if you follow the schedule, this is desktop, right? So mobile will be next year, or they do desktop. Now, in the end of the year for the holiday season, the the you and now Pser stuff will be announced in January cs. Right? So the, the machine Leo has was probably announced in January, probably shipped in March. I think you bought it. Well, I don't know when you bought, but you probably got it in June, right? Yeah. No, this is the, this is, this happens every year's not new. It's

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:26):
A cycle of life guys. It's a

Leo Laporte (00:55:27):
Cycle of cycle of, No,

Paul Thurrott (00:55:29):
But what is new is this is the second gen of it's hybrid architecture. Right. And I think it's gonna change dramatically. And I think it's gonna change again dramatically. Because once this thing is out in the world, first of all, Windows I think has to be adapted to run efficiently on these things. I think that's some of the issues I'm seeing. Yeah. Windows apps, etcetera. Windows. It's not, the world we live in was not constructed for this kind of weird multi four architecture. It's just different. And so I think what you, you know, I think what you're gonna see is an explosion of cores, Right? Which is kind of strange, but these desktop, the lowest end version, right? Which is an i is it an I three or an I five? I think it's an I three has 14 cores. That's the, that's the longest one, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:56:13):
You know, there are 16 and 24 core versions. You gotta understand. Two years ago, well desktop, we had multiple cores. But two years ago, mainstream computers had four cores. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and then, you know, H series, you could get it, you know, it was probably eight, maybe even 12, maybe something like that on Intel. I'm not talking amd, but on Intel, this is a very big change. Yeah. Intel's also doing art graphics, right? In addition to integrated graphics. That doesn't impact what I'm talking about today, but that's a, or here, but that's another one of those things that's gonna evolve a lot over time. And I think those two things evolving side by side, it's gonna be quite different. Now, when Microsoft came out with Windows Server Data Center edition, one of the things they showed us as reviewers was this crazy data center, data center system that had, it would probably 24 course or 32 course. And we were like, Ooh. Cuz everyone had one or maybe two course back then there was no way we were gonna do that on our computers. And you flash forward, I dunno what's 10 years maybe, whatever it's been, maybe 15 in this case, but 32 course. Yeah. In an Intel processor for a desktop.

Leo Laporte (00:57:20):
So when the Apple came out with its one I think a lot of people said, Oh, Intel will never catch up. I think you were one of the people who said, Give him, give him a moment. 

Paul Thurrott (00:57:30):
Do you Oh, they'll need a moment. <Laugh>. Yeah. But

Leo Laporte (00:57:32):
Yeah, And one of the reasons I think people thought that Apple's processors were so power efficient was not merely the efficiency cores, which Intel has immediately duplicated, but the process that they were down to a five nanometer process, they're looking that's right at three nanometer. And Intel's still stuck at a, at a a pretty, I don't know, 10.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:51):
Well, what do you think? What are these desktop parts at? These have to be 11 at least. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:57:56):
But maybe that's not critical to the whole thing. Do you think these, this is in, this is clearly Intel, somewhat of an intel response to apples.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:03):
Look, I, first of all, I'm not gonna dump on what Apple did. That was an incredible transition. And that's even true if you understand, they had the playbook already written when they did the power of PC to Intel transition. Right. But, but here's what I think anyone would agree with. Who knows more about this than I do. What you're seeing, Jennifer, Jen with the Apple silicon is much smaller gains now, right? Because they've already taken the big step of moving the architecture. Now what you now, when you go Jennifer, Jen, it's like, well, okay, you know, I didn't, they don't even really talk about it anymore. They're like, Oh, this is the fastest performing, you know, ser chip ever. And then someone finally does benchmarks and they're like, Yeah, it is, it's like 3% faster. Right? You know, it's not, it's not dramatic anymore.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:42):
Yeah. Yeah. So Intel has a lot of ground to make up, but they also have a lot of head run, you know where now is settled into what they're doing. So we'll see what happens. But these, the, the standard advantages of the PC market remain, which is diversity and choice. And then in this case, the ability to pair this, which the graphics card of your choice, right? And if you're, depending on what you're doing, if it's engineering or science or gaming or whatever you have this range of choices. So Apple, I would say is, I mean, it's incredible what they've done, but on the graphics end in particular, is work to be done there for sure. And will they ever turn to dedicated graphics, or will they be able to enhance the thing they do internally?

Leo Laporte (00:59:25):
They're look like they intend to. I agree. That's unknown. It doesn't, doesn't, it feels like they just say, Well, no, we're gonna make ours better and better and better. Intel also announced their ARC gpu,

Paul Thurrott (00:59:34):
Right? 

Leo Laporte (00:59:35):
I haven't, that's all of this is just emerging now. So I'm very curious to see how that,

Paul Thurrott (00:59:40):
So there's some ARC stuff. This Mob mobile arc has been around this year. I've never gotten one. So, Right. Some computers have a, a choice. You can get Iris X or arc, I don't remember the MO 3:40 AM

Leo Laporte (00:59:53):
Side. Now they have external, now they have cards as well.

Paul Thurrott (00:59:56):
Yeah. Right. So obviously what Intel in this case, Intel's not so hybrid architecture, they're going after ARM arc. They're going after AMD because they have Radiant, Right? Right. So AMD is a serious challenger in the CPU space, but they also have oh, surprise. We also make one of the two major graphics architecture. So you know, sort of buying Invidia, I guess Intel is decided to go at

Leo Laporte (01:00:22):
The ring. Yeah. It's,

Paul Thurrott (01:00:24):
I mean, you know, it's

Leo Laporte (01:00:25):
Good. Look, competition's the best possible situation. You don't want anybody to dominate. So this is great that that new, A seven, A seven 70, which comes out next month is priced the same as an RTX 30 60. And supposedly we'll operate even faster. So that's a, that's really,

Paul Thurrott (01:00:47):
It depends on what you're doing. I I, you know, if I were like a gamer, for example, I, I don't think I'd be looking at until anything for a couple years, right? I mean, games today are optimized for Nvidia, for

Leo Laporte (01:00:58):
Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:00):
Science and engineering, you know, high end workstation computing, maybe that's a different story. There's different certifications you get there, and I'm sure Intel will be part of that and we'll see. It's

Leo Laporte (01:01:10):
Very interesting. Yep. All right. Wanna take another break? We have much more to talk about including Surface. We've got an event coming up. I gotta know we're gonna cover it. I hope I won't be brokenhearted disappointed. We'll find out.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:26):
Well, based on Mary Jo's experience with our service laptop three

Leo Laporte (01:01:30):
<Laugh>. I'm a little leery. I'll just say <laugh>, that we've got some Microsoft 365 news, of course, Xbox News back of the book too, all ahead. But first a word from our sponsor, My good friends at IT Pro tv, love the IT pro TV folks. We've been, you know, kind of partnered since they launched in 2013. They're doing so well. And you know, we always talk about how it's the place to go if you wanna get into it, you know, Or if you're already an IT professional, you wanna upskill, you wanna resert, but I don't talk enough. I think about how great it is for teams as well. If you're a business and you have an IT team, I think it's pretty clear in this day and age with networking, security, windows, all the things that are, are changing so rapidly that you gotta keep your IT team up to par as well.

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Mary Jo Foley (01:05:58):
Oh, this one is, Yeah. So we've been talking for I think a couple years now about Project Monarch. Yeah. Which is Microsoft's idea to create a common Outlook app that works on the web windows and the Mac based on the same code base. It's been a long time in coming, but it's getting closer. So today, Microsoft broadened the beta for the version of Outlook for Windows, this new outlook for Windows. So if you're somebody who is in the Office Insider channel, you're gonna be able to toggle inside of the beta version to try the new Outlook. And if you slide the toggle to the right, you can try it out. It's nothing crazy. Like I, I think we all were thinking, Oh, they're rewriting the code base. This is gonna be amazing, different, weird. No, it looks like Outlook for the web.

Mary Jo Foley (01:06:51):
That's what it looks like, right? There's a few new features that are beyond that. There's like the new calendar board feature that's part of this. There's capabilities, like you can call a file by doing an app file name type thing. But it's basically Outlook. It's still Outlook. They said that Windows Insiders are gonna get the code to try soon. The way they call it. The way, what they always say is in the coming week. So we don't really know exactly when, but I'm guessing like in, you know, around the time of Ignite, maybe they could get it. What do you need to know? You need to know that since May, when they first launched the beta of this, they had, they were missing a ton of features. So they've added effect a few of the missing features. So right now you can add personal outlook.com, hotmail, Windows live email accounts to this Quick steps, which is a pa patterns that people do repeatedly when they wanna organize or clean out their inbox.

Mary Jo Foley (01:07:56):
Those are there now, but they're only there for new quick steps. So if you had your quick steps that you already loved, those did not get carried over. Unfortunately. I don't know if that's a plan to bring those over. You can adjust the width of your columns in calendars. Woohoo. There's still a lot of things missing though. They, they've said they've got a laundry list of things that they've committed to support from multiple email accounts, work and personal within the same app like you can do today, an outlook on mobile support for third party emails. Still not there. Like Gmail, Yahoo, iCloud ability to search folders ICS file types for calendar events. So there's a lot of stuff still missing, but it's getting there. I don't know when they're gonna actually make this generally available. But people inside Microsoft have been using this and testing it for months now. So soon is stuff like, say

Leo Laporte (01:08:52):
Soon Project Monarch about to get Crown

Mary Jo Foley (01:08:56):
<Laugh>. Nice. That's now you should've used that as a headline. That would've been a good

Leo Laporte (01:08:59):
Headline. I'll give you headlines

Paul Thurrott (01:09:00):
All day. I would test this now. But it doesn't support multiple accounts.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:04):
It does

Paul Thurrott (01:09:04):
Not, it doesn't support like third party accounts like Gmail

Leo Laporte (01:09:06):
Yet.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:07):
It does not. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:09):
Plus you have to go through Outlook and I, I sort of just on religious reasons.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:12):
You hate Outlook. Outlook. I use Outlook. He hates Outlook. He hates it.

Leo Laporte (01:09:17):
Ugh. I am not a fan either.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:20):
<Laugh> guys. I use Lotus Notes for years, so this is a big improvement. I'm just gonna say <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:09:25):
Yeah. But anything, anything. Pine is a big improvement over Lotus Notes.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:30):
Anything is

Leo Laporte (01:09:31):
Anything like, geez. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:34):
I use Pine

Leo Laporte (01:09:35):
Pain. Yeah, Pine was great. I use Mutt now sometimes. Anyway, so of course on my server. Wait,

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:41):
What are these things? Are these email up for Lennox

Paul Thurrott (01:09:43):
Pine was an email app. Mutt is not email

Leo Laporte (01:09:46):
Text based. Yeah. Mutts email. Okay. They're text was an app. They're two. It's like, I

Paul Thurrott (01:09:49):
Thought it, Oh, I've never

Leo Laporte (01:09:50):
Heard of these. Yeah, well never

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:52):
Have heard.

Leo Laporte (01:09:52):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:53):
Back when you would get like the internet starter kit, you'd get like a go for client. You'd give, but you'd get like some like Pine was browser never

Leo Laporte (01:10:01):
Heard of, but it was all, it was in the terminal. So it didn't have any gooey or anything. You didn't, couldn't resize the calendar columns. No, there

Paul Thurrott (01:10:08):
Were no calendar calendar

Leo Laporte (01:10:09):
Columns. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (01:10:10):
Guys, that's a key feature that matters to,

Leo Laporte (01:10:13):
We were pretty glad just to have what we had. Studies says, survey says Teams is an OS platform and needs app store. Like protections.

Paul Thurrott (01:10:23):
Yeah. I thought this was kind of interesting. You know, app stores are at the center of all of the major antitrust cases we're seeing in Big Tech right now. Or at least in some of the, And the, but this makes some sense. In other words, the issue with teams and, and Slack too, which I know less about, is that they have, they have stores of a sort, they have an extensibility model, They're a platform. They're what these what the people who wrote the study say r n os, Right? And what is basically happening is that the onus for ensuring that the extensions or apps or whatever you're installing in teams is on it. That Microsoft is just saying, Well this is not, you know, we, we built the extensibility model, but it's up to you guys to enforce what's going on. It's like, well, hold on a second.

Paul Thurrott (01:11:10):
Like, I mean, what they're basically saying is that, it's funny cuz app stores are terrible in some ways, but that because these things are platforms and they do have app stores, that those app stores should have the same rules and protections for both security and privacy that the major mobile app stores have. Which is kind of an interesting thing. And I I, I didn't read in depth into this, but they literally built a tax that explain why what they're saying is true. Microsoft's contention is that well, you have to have user interaction where they install something and they're like, Yeah, that's how malicious apps work. The user installs them and doesn't know. There was a story just today that 75 million people have downloaded malicious apps on iOS and Android. So that system doesn't always work. Of course. Wow. But if there, But that's the thing, you know, that that's, that's the point. You have to have a system in place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we can all agree teams as a platform, at least in that it's a, you know, it's a big thing. It's run by hundreds of millions of people. Maybe it needs to be, you know, formally

Leo Laporte (01:12:15):
I think that's a good point. Protected

Paul Thurrott (01:12:17):
In this way. I agree. That was a

Leo Laporte (01:12:18):
Very good point. Yeah. read all about it@thro.com.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:25):
Oh, read some about it. I didn't get into in depth. It's kind of complex.

Leo Laporte (01:12:29):
<Laugh>. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:29):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:12:31):
Let's talk about Viva not a paper towel anymore. Viva

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:36):
Not a, not a pinata either. No.

Leo Laporte (01:12:39):
Just tired. A new continuity person whose name is Viva and is everything I can do every time I see her. Not to burst into that Elvis Pressley

Paul Thurrott (01:12:49):
Song. Right. What does the continuity person do?

Leo Laporte (01:12:52):
Oh, I don't know. <Laugh>. No, we have, we have a large continuity apartment, three person continuity department there. One and only job is to make sure the ads are properly pronounced.

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:05):
Oh, wow.

Leo Laporte (01:13:06):
You know, and, you know, delivered and stuff. They deal with the

Paul Thurrott (01:13:09):
Advertised. So it's like a business con, it's

Leo Laporte (01:13:11):
A biz thing you would just wouldn't understand. So you have the people who sell the ads, but then you also have the people who service the ads. And then you have the people who read the ads. <Laugh>, it's all about the ads, frankly.

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:23):
It is. Okay. It always is.

Leo Laporte (01:13:25):
Has to be. Cause like the electric electricity bill will not accept you, Leo tokens, <laugh> Sure. They haven't, we haven't figured that part out. Nor will the landlord.

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:37):
Right. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:13:38):
So Viva, this is Microsoft's HR things. Yeah. Something. Right. And more

Paul Thurrott (01:13:44):
Employees, asterisks

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:45):
Other experience,

Leo Laporte (01:13:46):
Employee,

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:46):
Employee experience platform, as they like to call it. Yeah, sure. Right. So the reason people are using Viva and Microsoft has positioned it as a another platform on top of the team's platform is during the pandemic, especially you, you needed to onboard people and you needed to connect with them, even though they might be in the office. Sometimes they were remote, they might be completely remote. And you still need a way to deal with them as your employees. So the idea of Viva is you have a suite of applications that deals with everything from getting people, you know, into the company, learning the ways of the company to learnings, You know, like learnings we always talk about meaning education, things they want you to read in your job or things that they say, Hey, if you wanna go to the next level, here's what you should do to go to the next level.

Mary Jo Foley (01:14:38):
Objectives and key results OKRs for people in the know all. So there's a whole suite of things that you do with your employees as an employer, and that's what Viva handles. So last week Microsoft said, you know what, it's been over a year, almost a year and a half since we first launched Viva. And we're gonna add some more apps to the suite. So they're adding a thing called Viva Pulse, which is basically a feedback app so that people can keep tabs on what their teams are mad about, happy about. They can survey them and say, What do you think about this change or that change? And get all the feedback in one place. They've also got a new app coming next year called Viva Amplify, which is, if you have people inside your company who are like the communications people, they can broadcast things very specifically, like campaigns that they want people in the company to know about or messages they wanna make sure you don't miss in a very regulated and, and controlled way.

Mary Jo Foley (01:15:36):
So that's what Viva Amplify is gonna do. There's also that weird app I talked about. I I call it a weird app because I don't feel like it fits in with the rest of Viva. But I think they're gonna be more of these pieces. This is called Viva Sales. Viva Sales is a CRM companion app. I don't know. Well, I kind of know why it's branded Viva. It should have been Branded Dynamics, right? It's, it's an app to help you automat in a, input your information into a CRM system or into your system of record in an automated way so that you don't have to sit there and type notes while you're talking to a customer to help you actually get all this information gathered and more automatically collected and get it inputted into your system. The reason they didn't brand it Dynamics was because it also is going to work with third party systems like Salesforce.

Mary Jo Foley (01:16:25):
So they couldn't call it like Dyna Dynamic Sales, because then you'd be like, Yeah, but it works with Salesforce, which is the direct competitor. So this app, which is kind of an outlier right now in Viva, but there'll be more of these vertical things. I bet there'll be like Viva Marketing, Viva it, things like that. This, this particular one, the sales one is going to be generally available October 3rd. So next week, Next week is October 3rd. Yeah. so yeah, it was kind of an update, a general update that they did last week connected with their work trend index, which is a survey. They, they periodically take of employees all over the world to say, Here's the trends happening in that world of hybrid work and what, what we think you could do about them if you wanna use Microsoft products. So then they said, And we'll give you an update about Viva at the same time. Mm. So there you have it. That's, that's where they're going. Viva's just Viva started out as a very small concrete thing, and it is really growing. It's, it's a a, a suite of things like teams that's expanding. Yeah. Like teams like Microsoft 365, Right? Like, it's just getting bigger. More

Paul Thurrott (01:17:34):
Teams was

Mary Jo Foley (01:17:34):
Add

Paul Thurrott (01:17:34):
More things chat based, you know, chat was basically, I know we're gonna collaborate via, via chat.

Mary Jo Foley (01:17:43):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:17:44):
It's so cute. It's reflects though what's changing in the workplace. I mean, this is does it does drastically changed. Not, not for you guys. Your life is exactly the same. No, but

Mary Jo Foley (01:17:54):
In some ways, except we, we deal with things in a different way now because other people, we deal with our hybrid. Right, Right. Like,

Leo Laporte (01:18:01):
That's right. Yeah. That

Paul Thurrott (01:18:03):
Wasn't, Well, we don't go to as many events and I, I'm not sure that's gonna change.

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:08):
Same. I know. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:18:10):
I think that, yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:18:11):
We've been impacted.

Leo Laporte (01:18:12):
I think that now on cnn, I see people in their bedrooms all the time, which would've been great.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:19):
It's become, I know, it's, it

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:20):
Doesn't even seem weird. It would've been Right?

Leo Laporte (01:18:21):
You're like that two years ago.

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:23):
Yeah. It really would've. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:18:25):
Oh he's in his bedroom. Would in fact, remember when the guy, the kids came in and the wife came and pulled him out and the

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:33):
Kid marching

Leo Laporte (01:18:34):
In, that was such like a, it

Paul Thurrott (01:18:36):
Was like, Oh my gosh,

Leo Laporte (01:18:37):
I've been working like him for

Paul Thurrott (01:18:37):
Home for so long, for so long. I, I, I lived in Phoenix and my wife's car was in the shop, so I drove at the one day. So my son was either not born yet or was just born. So, you know, it was late 1990s. And I picked her up from work. We're driving home and I said, What, what are all these people doing out in the streets? She's like, What are you talking about? I'm like, This car's everywhere. Look at all this traffic. He goes, Yeah, that's what it's like every day. I'm like, What are they doing? And she says, They're driving home from work <laugh>. I said, Oh,

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:08):
Like, oh, yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:09):
And I said, you know, cause I had this like, Seinfeld like observation. I was like, you know what, the nice thing about driving home from work is you're driving home from work

Leo Laporte (01:19:17):
<Laugh>. Like,

Paul Thurrott (01:19:17):
You're all, you're all done. You're done. Like they're done. They're done. You know? And I think this is the thing, everyone's like, Oh my God, working from home. It's the best. Yeah. And there are advantages, you know, But but you never

Leo Laporte (01:19:26):
Get to drive home from work.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:28):
You never get, You're always at work.

Leo Laporte (01:19:30):
Yeah. You are home. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:32):
Yeah. If you're not careful about it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:33):
Right.

Leo Laporte (01:19:34):
All right. I need a, I need intelligence <laugh> and

Paul Thurrott (01:19:38):
I will, we can't help you with

Leo Laporte (01:19:39):
That. I come to the right place surface event. First of all, can companies stop having their events at 7:00 AM Pacific? I know it's fine for you guys, but,

Paul Thurrott (01:19:49):
Well, Amazon's was at

Leo Laporte (01:19:52):
Actually that would've been, I wasn't invited. You mean today's Amazon event? I wasn't invited. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:56):
The West coast that was, I was online. Did

Leo Laporte (01:19:59):
One

Paul Thurrott (01:19:59):
Wasn't online, wasn't it? Or noon? I guess it

Leo Laporte (01:20:00):
Was noon. It was. They streamed it. I thought they weren't gonna stream

Paul Thurrott (01:20:03):
It. Yeah. Oh, I, I, oh Stream. Maybe I was invited. I don't know know. Anyway, the point is it was at a normal time. Cause they're on the West Coast. Were you

Leo Laporte (01:20:11):
Saying Apple and but you think Microsoft on the West Coast might know something.

Mary Jo Foley (01:20:17):
Well, that's a busy day, right? <Laugh> Sure. That's the start of Ignite the same day that Ignite starts. So it's gonna be a busy day for Microsoft.

Leo Laporte (01:20:26):
Well, we're gonna stream it. Of course. Yeah. I have to get off. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:20:30):
Okay. <Laugh>. Well, I think it's safe to say we, there's been lots of rumors, right? Yeah. So the key rumors, and then there are mixed messages here about amd, Qualcomm, Intel chip sets. What's changing, we don't really know for sure. But Surface Pro Nine will probably come in Intel and Qualcomm variance Surface Laptop Live, which has to date in two over two events, I think. And AMD and Intel might be Intel only. Yep. Is one rumor. And then Surface Studio three. And that product hasn't been updated in five years, four years, a long, long time. In fact, actually back

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:10):
One, right?

Paul Thurrott (01:21:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Surface Studios, they're

Leo Laporte (01:21:13):
Gonna I thought they had killed that. No. Kind. You don't think

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:16):
So? Maybe <laugh>?

Paul Thurrott (01:21:18):
No. Well, so, well, the latest thing though is No, it's, it's coming there. That's one we can kind of confirm. The FCC just did some study of it, you know? Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:21:28):
Oh

Paul Thurrott (01:21:28):
My God. It's a little exciting. The problem is the picture they have of the device at the FCC looks identical to the current version.

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:36):
So it's like, I know what I wonder, I wonder if that isn't a picture of the surface. Studio Two

Leo Laporte (01:21:41):
Or one

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:42):
And they just looks just like the OR and they just put it in as a placeholder at the fcc.

Leo Laporte (01:21:46):
Oh yeah. I But that, Oh,

Paul Thurrott (01:21:47):
Alright. All right. I hope

Leo Laporte (01:21:48):
You're right. Cause I tell you what it tells me when I look at this is gonna have the same anemic insides, you know, it's a great

Paul Thurrott (01:21:54):
Screen actually, you know, it is. Maybe not. Well, it's running Windows 11 though. You can see the screen is Windows 11. So it's not like they're substituted.

Mary Jo Foley (01:22:01):
Oh, that's true. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:04):
Although the computer next to it, by the way, looks like a network running Windows seven. So I don't know. I'm not really sure what to say to that. 

Leo Laporte (01:22:11):
Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:13):
I I mean I, so I think those three computers are kind of a lock whatever in whatever configurations. Mm-Hmm.

Mary Jo Foley (01:22:20):
<Affirmative> and Volera is a maybe, Right? Like Project Volera, the the arm based, I don't know, AI kit. Like, you can make

Paul Thurrott (01:22:30):
The

Mary Jo Foley (01:22:30):
Argument that ter already they announced it, it built, but then they didn't deliver it. Right. So there's a lot of speculation. They had supply chain issues getting it and now this could be where they say, Okay, it's generally available.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:44):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:22:44):
I also

Paul Thurrott (01:22:45):
Noted, I don't know if this is a, a strict surface event or hardware event or,

Leo Laporte (01:22:50):
Huh. Yeah, I noted Pano tweeting a picture out his window, so I know it's gonna be something exciting. Thanks about what a great day. This is what a great week's gonna be.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:05):
We actually try to get my pane on the side, you know, personally I don't like it.

Leo Laporte (01:23:09):
<Laugh> <laugh> I like in there my pane on the side, please. You think it'll be a pre-recorded one hour? Yeah. Panos?

Mary Jo Foley (01:23:18):
I think so.

Leo Laporte (01:23:19):
Walking through his living room, interrupting his children, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:23):
Yeah, exactly. Is my daughter playing the piano again?

Mary Jo Foley (01:23:26):
Yeah, she

Paul Thurrott (01:23:27):
Has. No, we coming Mood will be funny.

Mary Jo Foley (01:23:29):
Although, you know what could be more interesting than this? Even, I don't know if you saw Ignite Sessions went live today on the Ignite. Oh, I did

Leo Laporte (01:23:37):
Not see that.

Mary Jo Foley (01:23:37):
Yeah. Okay. And one of them is a, a session with Panos Pane mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it says Join Panos Pane and some other people at the company to talk about Windows 365 in tune Defender Team Surface. And the other people in this panel. Wait,

Leo Laporte (01:23:54):
Wait,

Paul Thurrott (01:23:54):
So I'm sorry. Did you not say Windows 11 in that list? Is that, does that literally say a bunch of that

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:00):
Are not features Windows top features? Windows. Windows is what it says. Okay. But there are other people on this panel. I think Stevie Beit is on this panel who is one of the lead engineers of Surface Joe Bill fiy is on this panel. The hairs who, who has been like totally disappeared for like years. Right? Like, I'm like, Oh, Joe Bill Fury. Cuz Loop is one of the topics and I'm betting that's his, but I don't know that for,

Paul Thurrott (01:24:29):
Okay. I was gonna say I Yeah, he Right. Might have moved on a broader Microsoft 365 thing. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:36):
Yep. He might have.

Paul Thurrott (01:24:36):
Interesting. Great. Okay.

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:38):
So this is, that's a lot

Paul Thurrott (01:24:39):
Of different topics in what it

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:41):
Is. Is

Paul Thurrott (01:24:42):
This gonna be a 30 minute session? What is this? Long as

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:45):
This's probably, right? I know, I, I'm like, Yeah, it's, it's, I saw it and I'm like wow, there's a lot going on in that session. <Laugh>, let's see. I'm looking it up cuz I bookmarked it here. It's Yeah, Joe be Filon Ye who I don't know from Microsoft mm-hmm. Panos, Stevie Batist. It's Thursday, October 13th for 40 minutes. <Laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (01:25:10):
That's not a lot of time, but it's also not the Wednesday, it's not day one either. So

Mary Jo Foley (01:25:14):
It's not,

Paul Thurrott (01:25:16):
It, it's, Well look, I, this event, the Surface event or whatever it's gonna be, I'm sure will be canned. It's not gonna be a live thing. Right. Why would you do something live when you broadcast it and you could get it Right. You know why, why would you ever No, no, that makes sense. Introduce the possibility of mistake and

Leo Laporte (01:25:32):
Right, right. Especially since six nights later they can elaborate on that on everything. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:36):
Yep. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:25:38):
It's actually a sensible way to do it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:25:40):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:41):
So you didn't see the Amazon thing? I thought their, their new ceo, I, his presentation was very much like Tim Cook. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:25:47):
Really? Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, he was, so it was my understanding this is today's big Amazon yearly, you know, we're gonna roll out 8,000 Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:56):
Device event hour.

Leo Laporte (01:25:58):
And it was my understanding that not only was it not gonna be live, but that, that a limited number of press would be invited.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:04):
Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:26:05):
I think you got

Paul Thurrott (01:26:06):
Invited. I was in, I was, I was invited virtually.

Leo Laporte (01:26:08):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:10):
I don't merit in person.

Leo Laporte (01:26:12):
So did they say anything? So, so it was a very Tim cookie kind of.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:17):
I thought it was great. I thought I did a great job. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:26:21):
Kindle scribe first Kindle you can write on. That's cool. I,

Paul Thurrott (01:26:24):
I went way more interested in the color Kindle he brought up at one point he said, our partner, whatever that does our, all of our screens. I thought, here comes baby color E in. I can't wait. I will totally buy one of these.

Leo Laporte (01:26:37):
No, no. <Laugh> ambient

Paul Thurrott (01:26:41):
And tell, but they did interesting stuff. Like they have they own era, which is that wifi mesh networking scheme. If you have devices in your house, like speakers. I don't know if it's just the new ones, but they're gonna, they'll work as network amplifiers though, which is kind of hilarious. So you could actually use them as a way to extend your network into dead spots instead of buying like nodes. You know? That's

Leo Laporte (01:27:02):
Really cool.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:03):
I thought that was genius. That's nice.

Leo Laporte (01:27:05):
I do, you know mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:06):
Yeah. I don't want a bunch of Amazon devices in my

Leo Laporte (01:27:09):
House. Yeah, you might. That's the idea.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:11):
Yeah. But I, I could picture going Arrow for sure. I

Leo Laporte (01:27:15):
It's interesting. Halo Rise bedside sleep tracker. Yep. At least they

Paul Thurrott (01:27:20):
Good case for that too. So a lot of people do sleep, sleep. Well they use, they've been using the Halo brand for like three, two years now.

Leo Laporte (01:27:26):
They have

Paul Thurrott (01:27:26):
Oh man. Yeah, for health devices. Like they have the halo thing and the now the a watched face on it. So the case for, that's actually pretty decent. You know, a lot of people wear these things and they track sleep, but then they, your watch gets caught in the pillow in the middle of the night or something and he's like, Just put it next to the bed. You know, why do you have to wear it? It's just, you know, it's gonna slowly wake you up with light. You know, It's just kind of a neat thing. Google, especially maybe in

Leo Laporte (01:27:53):
The winter, Google's Nest Hub does that as well using the camera.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:57):
Yeah. Yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (01:27:58):
A good idea. Monitors with the microphone. You're snoring.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:01):
Plus you wouldn't want a Google device looking at you when you sleep. Right. You know? That's a great idea.

Leo Laporte (01:28:05):
So this one, I

Paul Thurrott (01:28:06):
Can't think of a single problem with why

Leo Laporte (01:28:07):
Doesn't have a camera. It's just got some sort of Halo glow bar

Paul Thurrott (01:28:12):
Pointed

Leo Laporte (01:28:12):
At you. Yeah. All right.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:14):
It seemed like a good

Leo Laporte (01:28:14):
Event. New Echo Studio. Okay. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> new echo.dot with clock. These are just kind updates. I bet you this era thing

Paul Thurrott (01:28:24):
Have to have.

Leo Laporte (01:28:25):
Yeah. Amazon is bringing its zero technology to the Echo line. I bet you starting with these, So that means you have to buy these new hardware devices. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:35):
Yeah. They're cheap. You know, the

Leo Laporte (01:28:37):
Existing a customers will select devices will also receive this feature through a firmware update.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:42):
Huh. Okay. So maybe the la the current gen devices had this chip set in them or something and they never used it.

Leo Laporte (01:28:48):
Yeah. I mean you'd have to build in a wifi transmitter, I think.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:51):
Yeah. That's a, it's a neat idea. I I I, I live in a pretty big house. It, it's older and it has lots of dead spots and I've bought additional nodes for a mesh thing and it doesn't quite solve the problem. Especially for Sonos, which is, doesn't work well with mesh networks and you know, whatever. But it's

Leo Laporte (01:29:12):
Echo. I could,

Paul Thurrott (01:29:13):
You know, good picture in

Leo Laporte (01:29:14):
Your car. It's mostly just, you know, kind of looks like that's the most, the Euro stories the most interesting.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:21):
I think. So that's, to me it was for sure.

Leo Laporte (01:29:23):
Yeah. I mean, I don't care what they're gonna do with their Astro robot.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:26):
I'm not gonna buy a Kindle. I can write on, I don't wanna write anything on a Kindle, but I, I get it. You know, I'm listening to everything you do

Leo Laporte (01:29:32):
With Goal and all that.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:33):
The ear, the era one. I was like you. That's interesting cuz I'm actually, I'm still on wifi five. Like I need to upgrade. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:29:40):
This might be a good way to do it. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:29:41):
Interesting. Yeah. A good idea.

Leo Laporte (01:29:43):
Smart. They're smart. Leveraging their these brands that they have. All right, well, well this didn't, I didn't mean for this to turn into the Amazon.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:52):
I thought it was public. I didn't realize No else saw this.

Leo Laporte (01:29:54):
No one else saw it. As far as I know. Am

Paul Thurrott (01:29:56):
I? Well I thought it was great.

Leo Laporte (01:29:59):
They, you know, this historically has never been open to the public and rarely even to very much of the press. So we always, Stacey would be there and we'd always ask her and Stacy would be there week. It could be Douglas Rushkoff talking about billionaire Heidi Holes, which will be fun is coming up on TWiTg. Yeah. He's got a new book about billionaires escaping to, you know, when when the end times come, which they created, they have their special places, which they'll be going. And he, he, he, it's very interesting. It's a whole Silicon Valley kind of mindset.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:34):
I and then the non rich by places in Mexico City. Cause we dunno what the hell we're doing.

Leo Laporte (01:30:40):
It's gonna be fine. Fine. and then what else are we, we have a lot of events coming up cuz of Google's thing October 6th and now this, it's October 12th Right. For the surface event. Right before Ignite.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:54):
And there's a Isn't there a Facebook thing or a meta thing? I

Leo Laporte (01:30:58):
We recuse your ourselves. I do not want to. Okay. I honestly, I have no interest.

Paul Thurrott (01:31:03):
No, I get, I'm just saying but if, if you're It is an event. I mean, even

Leo Laporte (01:31:06):
If you don't covering it. No, I know. I know. And then people always say, Oh, why aren't you covering it? But it's like, cuz I hate Facebook

Paul Thurrott (01:31:13):
Cause we hate them so much cause

Leo Laporte (01:31:14):
We hate them.

Paul Thurrott (01:31:15):
Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:31:15):
That would be terrible.

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:17):
You have to cover it.

Leo Laporte (01:31:18):
Do I,

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:20):
I have to mention the word apple and I hate them. I mean like, you have to sometimes bite the bullet. Well

Paul Thurrott (01:31:25):
You might have an irrational hatred of Apple. I <laugh>.

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:29):
He has an irrational hatred of money. Not

Leo Laporte (01:31:31):
Irrational. I would submit and I don't think Facebook, I don't, I

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:37):
Don't see you gotta cover it. It's gonna be their headset thing or their glasses. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:31:41):
It, oh maybe I will. Yeah. yeah, we've been so dis the real real reason is cuz I've been so disappointed by so many Facebook events over the years being completely a waste of time that we just decided. Yeah, yeah. Also, cuz they keep doing it at seven in the morning and Leo's

Paul Thurrott (01:31:57):
Lazy. Here's why. Here's what we get me to watch it turn out Don Box people, those guys and have them talk about it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:03):
That'd be amazing. Then

Paul Thurrott (01:32:05):
I would wanna watch

Leo Laporte (01:32:05):
It. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:06):
Mark Zuckerberg please.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:08):
I know

Paul Thurrott (01:32:09):
No interest.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:11):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:32:12):
Yeah. Hate an irrational feeling.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:16):
It is. Hate is an irrational thing. But

Leo Laporte (01:32:19):
I should, and you should never say hate about a company. I don't hate a company. I just don't feel like they're worthy of

Paul Thurrott (01:32:26):
Oh no. I feel like I might hate, they might hate Facebook. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:29):
<Laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:31):
I think it qualifies.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:32):
I think because it's a consumer device that's coming. You would wanna Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:32:35):
Yeah, yeah. That's, I I don't need to cover the Facebook platform particularly. Most it's

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:40):
People just, if there, if it's a headset or glasses, that seems kind of interesting. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:44):
Problem is everyone I know, like all, everyone in my family uses it and it's the worst. Like I'm just forced to

Leo Laporte (01:32:51):
It is hatred cuz of that <laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:54):
Yeah. Right. That's what I mean. Like, I just, I kind of have to <laugh>. I hate that they bought Instagram. I would give anything for some antitrust regulator.

Leo Laporte (01:33:03):
Are

Paul Thurrott (01:33:03):
They not force them to give it away? Are

Leo Laporte (01:33:05):
They not ruining Instagram? Have they not

Paul Thurrott (01:33:06):
Ruined? Oh my God, they're totally

Leo Laporte (01:33:07):
Ruining it. Destroyed it. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:33:10):
Just there's something out there called the OG app, which is supposed to be like old Instagram. Okay, I

Leo Laporte (01:33:14):
Gotta stop you right here because I recommended it yesterday on Mac Break Weekly.

Paul Thurrott (01:33:18):
Oh, this is about good.

Leo Laporte (01:33:20):
Well, Facebook doesn't think it's good. So if you install the OG app, which takes advantage of the, of the Instagram web api, Instagram will say, Oh, you've got a security problem on your account. We're gonna have to make you log in and verify and do all sorts of stuff every single time you go to the OG account. The ogf,

Paul Thurrott (01:33:41):
If I went to install it, it was, it was not available in my country is what I was told

Leo Laporte (01:33:45):
<Laugh> face. So I, I mean I understand Instagram, they're under a lot of pressure right now. They're very reluctant to, to say don't use this app, but they're, if you do use it, and it, by the way, it's beautiful. No ads, no algorithms, just the content. It's beautiful. Yep. If you do use it, use it. They will punish you. <Laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:06):
Listen, I would go back to Square Photos if I had to just to get the original thing back. Agree. I can't stand it. Agree. I can't stand how this thing works. I

Leo Laporte (01:34:13):
Agree.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:16):
Give me your blown out filters and your stupid square pictures.

Leo Laporte (01:34:21):
All right, let's We can't, we can't delay any longer. Mary Jo. It's time for the box segment.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:27):
This will be largely pain free. Okay. Eh, maybe it won't. So

Leo Laporte (01:34:35):
<Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:34:36):
The truth interviewed on, I think it was Bloomberg tv. Microsoft CEO San Naela said that he, and I'm gonna quote here because I like his use of language. Very, very confident that we will come out, meaning that the acquisition of Activation Blue suit will happen. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:34:53):
I

Paul Thurrott (01:34:53):
He surprised he also noted

Leo Laporte (01:34:54):
That Surpris. That's interesting.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:55):
You know what, I I, nothing has happened that has changed my mind on this. I see no reason why this isn't going to happen. I think the process we're seeing now where there are questions being asked, compromised, being forced on Microsoft, this is exactly how this works. This is, they set front, look, this is gonna take a year, year and a half. It's, it's a long haul thing. We have lots of questions to answer, lots of things to change. And they're doing all the right things. So I think it's gonna happen too. He also well he didn't say this some, I don't actually know who it, Microsoft said this, but someone said what I've been saying, which is it makes zero business sense to remove call duty from PlayStation. It's the most popular console. It's, you know, whatever. Because Sony doesn't like that.

Paul Thurrott (01:35:35):
Microsoft is gonna put college duty games on Xbox Game Pass and on Xbox Cloud streaming probably on day one. I can stand up. But competition, Sorry. That's how it works. I I don't think we talked about this last week. I guess, I guess we didn't, but Logitech announced something called the GCloud Gaming Handheld. It's a seven inch screen. It's got basically Xbox controllers on the side and it works with cloud streaming gaming services. Right now that means Xbox Game, I'm sorry, Xbox Cloud Gaming and the Invidia service. Gforce now Stadia is not on it, which is kind of interesting. And if you're a Stadia fan, that might be a bad side. I'm just saying. But this is the point of the cost. So actually Leo, let me ask you a question. So seven inch device 16 by nine ips, Multitouch integrated Xbox style controls wifi, 12 hours of Battery life, let's call it six $299. Oh, that sound like a good, good price.

Leo Laporte (01:36:35):
Yeah. It's basically the reason that price is there is cuz that's what an Nintendo Switch costs.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:41):
Okay. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:36:42):
So they're,

Paul Thurrott (01:36:43):
I think, I think the, it's great.

Leo Laporte (01:36:45):
The Switch doesn't have as good a screen,

Paul Thurrott (01:36:49):
I think. Right. how much is the what's the the Steam

Leo Laporte (01:36:53):
Deck is

Paul Thurrott (01:36:53):
Steam Deck is. Yeah. But of course that's a, that's

Leo Laporte (01:36:57):
A real pc. Yeah. This is not a, this is not exactly a pc. It's a

Paul Thurrott (01:37:02):
It's like an Android phone basically. It's an Android.

Leo Laporte (01:37:04):
That's why I'm not, you know, when I saw it I thought, oh, should I buy this? It's an Android device with the builtin

Paul Thurrott (01:37:12):
Bigger display and the builtin controllers. Yeah. I don't know. There's some, this is interest seven

Leo Laporte (01:37:16):
Inches a nice size. I, I think,

Paul Thurrott (01:37:17):
I think so. Yeah. I could, I could see getting something like

Leo Laporte (01:37:21):
This. Yeah, I mean, if there's anything,

Paul Thurrott (01:37:22):
And if you're familiar with the x

Leo Laporte (01:37:24):
With the switches, the screen's too small, so

Paul Thurrott (01:37:26):
Yeah. And I, well, it's a different environment too. Like, I, I kinda like the notion, I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't have something like this. And, and my, and Mary Jo is saying, well, what if this hardware event they're having next month has other things in it? Why couldn't an Xbox branded, handheld gaming device be a thing? Right. That they, I don't understand why they haven't done this yet. And now that they're doing cloud gaming, this is the time. You know, aren't

Mary Jo Foley (01:37:51):
They kind? But wait, wait, they, they kind of position the Surface duo with a gaming controller as a handheld gaming?

Paul Thurrott (01:37:58):
No, but that's, that's kind of a niche device. The two screens makes that kind of screwy because you have to explicitly support the second screen. Right? So I, you can make a case for like a, a surface go with a controller, you know, it has a kickstand. So it's two things, Right. That device I'm sure is what, 300 bucks probably for the low end version. So it's probably right in there. Much bigger screen, right? Probably 11. I think it's an 11 inch display. That's kind of interesting. But this is something you could pop in a backpack really easily or

Leo Laporte (01:38:30):
Whatever there, this, there is so much room for form factors in streaming because now you don't have to have the horsepower in the device. So there's all sorts of things you could do. I would like to see a bigger, you know, iPad sized, you know, 11 inch,

Paul Thurrott (01:38:43):
12 inch. That's why I mentioned the service go. It's like, okay, so I don't really care about service Go, but actually that'd be a good use for it. Could you put controllers on the side of it? They could use it like a giant. Yeah. That's not bad.

Leo Laporte (01:38:53):
My mike thoughts about this are conditioned though by my experience with the steam deck, which is when you put PC games on a screen as small as that, it's kind of

Paul Thurrott (01:39:03):
Not a, So here's the thing. So yeah, so what's happened though, since they've done this is, remember this has been available in Android since the beginning. It's been available in iOS for a while now through the web browser. A lot of these games have built in touch controls, which honestly wouldn't benefit. It's too, too much. There. There is an issue, like Halo Infant is the first game, like the UI and Halo Infant's gonna be like that's big on that screen. That that is a little bit of an issue. Yeah. But you know, mostly this is, I look, I'm like, I, I keep bringing this up. For some reason I'm 55 years old. Like I, I'm gonna have trouble seeing the small X on some of these games. But a lot of the people who might buy this who are younger people in their twenties and I don't know, I don't think they'd have a problem with it. I they love affordable I scores and Verizon would be great on this. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:39:47):
They love affordable gaming. I mean, the switch is huge.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:50):
And if you, you already own an Xbox and you gonna, you know, go between, you play the Xbox at home on a big screen, you play this on the train or bus or wherever you are while you're going to work and from work and I don't know. That's

Leo Laporte (01:40:02):
Not, to me the difference is switch games are designed to be on the switch. And so That's right. Designers know what the interface is gonna be and all that. These are PC or Xbox games.

Paul Thurrott (01:40:13):
You're right.

Leo Laporte (01:40:13):
Put on a place like this, I just don't know if it's gonna be a good match, but I'll let

Paul Thurrott (01:40:18):
You know. No, I agree with you. I go ahead. I <laugh>. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:40:21):
So

Paul Thurrott (01:40:22):
I wouldn't be surprised if going forward as Xbox game passing, especially game stream or odd gaming becomes more and more popular if games aren't designed with that in mind. Yeah. And you could have a UI that scales depending on how your accessing it. I think that's gonna become more of a thing. So maybe this problem, it's not gonna get solved for the 150 games that are on there now, but maybe in the future it'll get solved for how many games.

Leo Laporte (01:40:48):
You know, I didn't like the steam deck either. So, you know. Yeah. Consider, consider that. You know, and a lot of people do. Right? So

Paul Thurrott (01:41:00):
In other less interesting news <laugh> Microsoft is testing in their ex Xbox Insiders dev channel, the ability to meet startup sounds. So kind of an interesting thing. But I don't really hear this sound too much because I, mine goes to sleep and comes back. I don't really reboot, but I guess if you're current, you're trying to save energy, you would turn it on from a dead stop every time. And it makes sounds, and some people don't like that. So they're gonna give you that. That's not a, that's not a big, big deal, but that's coming. And other not important news. E three will be back baby. For some reason June, they say 15 to 16 next year.

Leo Laporte (01:41:36):
They say that I don't be, I I

Paul Thurrott (01:41:38):
They said that about conduct. I'm just saying. I I don't buy it. The problem. Yeah. The problem for these guys is the biggest players don't show up at this anymore anyway. And you know, even before the pandemic don't need, well Sony might have been during the pandemic, but Sony announced at one point they doing their own thing. Microsoft before that was doing their own thing. Microsoft used to rent out like that. Well, they owned it for a little while too. The Nokia Theater, whatever it's called now, next to the Staple Center. They used to just go over there and do their own thing. You know, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, all have their own events. If Microsoft buys activation Blizzard, what does the show become? This is like an indie game show of sudden, like, what's left? EA I guess. I don't know what's, it just doesn't, I don't know. So are coming back.

Leo Laporte (01:42:25):
If they're coming back, they're gonna try to come back as a fan event. Like a ComicCon as opposed, Cause they were slowly turning into that anyway, as opposed to

Paul Thurrott (01:42:36):
I was just, So, okay. You're, that's actually fascinating to me because I was just saying to somebody, these events like Cs conducts and E three all started out as industry events where you were in the industry, you would go, you would bingle with your, the people that do, were doing what you were doing. Partnerships could be struck you could catch up on the competition, that kind of thing. And eventually someone had the B genius idea, like, let's set the public in, you know? Right. And it turned into something else. And actually it turning into something that's just about the public, like a, like a Star Trek convention or God Yeah. Is perfect cuz people could walk around, dress like pe and chew and be idiots. That makes sense.

Leo Laporte (01:43:14):
The press release says the first two days are only for business. The third day is consumer day. The fourth day is consumer only day. So there's, so there's, it's, you know,

Paul Thurrott (01:43:25):
Sounds

Leo Laporte (01:43:25):
Remember they wanted to do it this year and Yeah. Canceled it the last minute.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:30):
They probably could have gotten away with it this year. I'm surprised that didn't happen. I bet they canceled. It didn't, not because of Covid

Leo Laporte (01:43:36):
Covid. Exactly.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:36):
Yeah. It was because of engage or companies showing up.

Leo Laporte (01:43:40):
Yeah. And I think, well, we'll see. It's just, I don't know how the business climate has changed so that they could do it. I just don't think it's, it's doable. That's who would go. The big companies aren't there. I think a consumer show Make it a ComicCon. Yeah. Or

Paul Thurrott (01:43:58):
A Then I can just, then I can just ignore it. Then you can

Leo Laporte (01:44:00):
Ignore it. That's perfect. That's right. Yeah. Unlike the camo controller, you can't ignore that.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:06):
Right. So actually I had, I included this in a notes because I thought that charger would came with it, but it doesn't. I just found it. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:44:13):
Well then don't do it. Don't make it's, don't give him a plug. No, it's,

Paul Thurrott (01:44:16):
It's a, No, it's ok. It's a special edition. Wireless control. 69 bucks.

Leo Laporte (01:44:19):
Why is this so small?

Paul Thurrott (01:44:22):
The controller?

Leo Laporte (01:44:22):
Isn't it? Is that normal? Oh, that's a normal. Oh, okay. His hands are giant. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:27):
<Laugh>, That's like me holding like a controller.

Leo Laporte (01:44:29):
Doesn't look like that. Why does it look my hands? What's like it's a small looking the mineral.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:34):
So apparently I,

Leo Laporte (01:44:35):
Sorry, go ahead. I,

Paul Thurrott (01:44:37):
It look, I guess I, apparently the, the quick charging thing is made by Razor.

Leo Laporte (01:44:42):
Ah.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:42):
So they've made a version of it that matches that. Geez. So if you wanna spend $110, $120, whatever that works not to So, And 50, 120 you can get the controller and the stand.

Leo Laporte (01:44:55):
Oh, I like understand. It does look like it's I do too. It's part

Paul Thurrott (01:44:58):
Of the deal. I thought it came with it. I'm like nine bucks with the stand. I'm like, that's,

Leo Laporte (01:45:01):
Oh yeah. But if you that's serious a deal. Camo gamer, You're gonna want this.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:06):
I'm sorry. If you have 120 bucks to spend on a controller, look at the elite series too.

Leo Laporte (01:45:09):
Okay. Core controller

Paul Thurrott (01:45:11):
Instead.

Leo Laporte (01:45:12):
You know, that is pretty So stands sold separately by a different company. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:16):
I misunderstood.

Leo Laporte (01:45:18):
Oh wow. It's crazy. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (01:45:20):
Well not in the United States. What?

Leo Laporte (01:45:21):
No, I'm just making that up. <Laugh>. I just making that up.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:25):
Screw those guys.

Leo Laporte (01:45:26):
Screw 'em. Yeah. 49. Okay. The, the stand is 49 99. The controller is 69. 99. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:37):
Controllers have typically been 60 bucks. Right. So this one is a 10 bucks extra. I'm sure it's a special edition. Something something. But yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:45:44):
Paul threat Handel.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:45):
This is unrelated to gaming, but do you find it coincidental that on the day Amazon had their ambient computing device event, Google has 115 blog posts about Google search and Google Assistant and

Leo Laporte (01:45:58):
<Laugh>. Ugh. That means I've gotta go research all of those with all

Paul Thurrott (01:46:02):
Look it up. Go. Just go to the keyword blog list. You like at least 17 blog posts,

Leo Laporte (01:46:07):
Man, killing crazy Google

Paul Thurrott (01:46:09):
Maps. What are they doing? Why would they do this today?

Leo Laporte (01:46:13):
Well, I know why they hate Amazon. Yeah. They hate Amazon. Search outside the box. How we're making search more natural and intuitive. I know how they're doing it. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> by eliminating search results, just push, push them on down the page and give the people what they really want. More Google. They wanna copy talk, right? Yeah. I mean, everybody wants, everybody wants to copy TikTok these days. I

Paul Thurrott (01:46:37):
Want Google Maps, but I want it to be a little more like TikTok. Do you

Leo Laporte (01:46:40):
Have that? Yeah. Four updates that make maps look and feel like the real world Are there young ladies dancing in it? Because that would make you a fun tick time.

Paul Thurrott (01:46:50):
Right? Exactly. Instead of a car driving down the road, just have a little guy going down. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:46:58):
Doing like a Fortnight dance or whatever. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:47:01):
Wait, they did put flossing.

Paul Thurrott (01:47:02):
What is happening?

Leo Laporte (01:47:03):
Is he doing <laugh>? I can't do that dance. I can't,

Paul Thurrott (01:47:09):
I just want to get to the place.

Leo Laporte (01:47:10):
Maybe SRA can do that dance. He's trying. Let's take a break. SRA will be back with more in just a bit the back of the book coming up around the corner. But first word from our sponsor, the great folks at Draw ta

Leo Laporte (01:47:27):
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Paul Thurrott (01:50:20):
Run into a discord battle with Mary Jo. But anyway. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:50:22):
Ooh, I gotta see this. How exciting is it? A battle of the, the Battle of the Jifs.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:29):
It's a, a battle of Exactly.

Leo Laporte (01:50:31):
A battle of the Jifs. Wow. <laugh> <laugh>. They're fun, aren't they? It's hard not to it's hard not to use them. I should mention that you can do this, but only if you're a member of Club TWiT. That's the Secret Club. Twit members get access to our Discord ad free versions of all the shows they get the Trip plus feed. And that includes special shows we don't put out in public. Like this guy right here is Hands on Windows. Can we count out on you Mary Jo Foley for hands on Hadoop? Cuz that'll be <laugh>. That'd be great. Hands on. Had hands on. Had h o eight. I love the name. I don't know if I'd love to show

Paul Thurrott (01:51:07):
On Surface Laptop <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:51:09):
Hands on surface Laptop. No, No. Hands on Windows. Hands on Viva Viva. Hands on Viva <laugh>. There'd probably be a market for that actually. <Laugh> Michael Sergeant does Hands on Mac. We have the Untitled Linux Show. We have lots of stuff in the club. And of course, the ability to use terrifying animated gifts in our club. Twit Discord. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (01:51:30):
Oh God, no, no,

Leo Laporte (01:51:32):
No. That's hands on hands a

Paul Thurrott (01:51:33):
Million

Leo Laporte (01:51:34):
Times. No, that's hands on hands now.

Paul Thurrott (01:51:36):
Oh, that's not

Leo Laporte (01:51:36):
Good. Seven bucks a month. Twit.tv/club TWiT. Horrifying Images. Nodding.

Paul Thurrott (01:51:42):
That's like a Stephen King show story

Leo Laporte (01:51:44):
Right there. They're going crazy now. <Laugh> <laugh>. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:51:52):
I've woken a monster

Leo Laporte (01:51:53):
Twittter TV slash club TWiTtter. And by the way, you can get Paul's hands on windows by itself for 2 99. But just that we don't, you know, with new shows, you know, this way helps put the bill. There's no ads yet. So, you know, that's how we do it. The Seven Newman says the $7 alone is worth it to creep out the hosts <laugh>. And I think you're

Paul Thurrott (01:52:16):
Right. Ugh, Tip of the way. So yeah, a little self-serving this week, but I know there've been a lot of questions about the Windows 11 field guide. It is coming. The print version, the book version is about 265 pages so far. There's been a lot of reasons to hold up. Most of them are my fault. But one of the o one of the reasons is I'm gonna make a version available on the web for the first time. And that's really complicated. We're doing it through throughout premium on my website. So if you are a throughout premium member, you can gain access to the book on the web soon as soon as this coming week. So it could be pretty quick. And then you just mentioned hands on Windows, but in case it's not obvious to people a lot of the content from that podcast is kind of called from the book.

Paul Thurrott (01:53:05):
And so you cover or I cover really specific topics. A lot of things that are new or different in Windows 11 obviously. So it, it's not, it doesn't map exactly to the book, but if you look at the stuff that we've put up so far and the stuff that's coming, I think we just recorded, I think the 12, 13th and 14th episode yesterday. We're gonna do some more in about two weeks. So it's, it's all kind of part of the same thing. It's just a, a big, you know, reference, you know, for Windows 11.

Leo Laporte (01:53:36):
Everything you need for Windows. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:53:39):
It's coming soon, I promise. Yes, I have never stopped working on it. It's just been getting it out the door, you know.

Leo Laporte (01:53:45):
Good. And I'm glad you're putting 'em in hands on Windows too. That's a great place for it. Yeah. Your app the week, my friend.

Paul Thurrott (01:53:54):
Yeah, my buddy Brad works at s so obviously this is, I've been paid a lot of money to mention this thing they do cause you know, that's how it

Leo Laporte (01:54:01):
Works. But

Paul Thurrott (01:54:03):
May have heard this little app called Window Blinds. Yeah, how are you? So <laugh>, So Window Blinds 11 is now available in open beta. It is the first version to support Windows 11 as in addition to Windows 10 high DPI skins this time around Auto dark mode and all kinds of stuff like that. So it will be available, you know, through Object Desktop through, did I say Object Desktop?

Leo Laporte (01:54:27):
You did

Paul Thurrott (01:54:27):
Object Desktop. Is that the right term? You should probably look at the article. Is that what it's called? No, it will be available through, Yeah. Object Desktop. It sounded like a next thing when I said it. Sorry, it's in there. Yeah, which is their suite. What as it came outta my mouth, I'm like, that can't be the name. Which is their suite of utilities windows. Or you can buy it individually for 1499 and if you're a window blind 10 user, you can upgrade for 9 99. So if you like this kind of thing, you'll like, if you want Windows 11 to look like Windows XP for example, this is your solution.

Leo Laporte (01:54:56):
Awesome, Awesome. Now,

Paul Thurrott (01:55:00):
And Brad, I will take that check.

Leo Laporte (01:55:02):
He's joking folks. He's joking. I don't want any calls from the ftc. Exactly. He is not getting taste

Paul Thurrott (01:55:09):
Of a very popular

Leo Laporte (01:55:10):
Solution. Yes. No Winners Blind is great. I I use it. Yeah, it's awesome. It's getting better all the time. Thank you Brad, for that check. We had just put that in the mail in <laugh> now Enterprise Pick of the Week from Mary Jo Foley.

Mary Jo Foley (01:55:25):
So there's a product called SharePoint Server Subscription edition. You wouldn't know from that name that it is the new on premises version of SharePoint, but that's what it is. And this week we, or actually maybe a couple weeks ago we found out just at the time that Windows is moving to a single feature update for a year SharePoint server subscription edition is going to a new model where they're doing two feature updates a year for that product. And guess what they're gonna call them 22 H two twenty three H 1 23 H two, just like Windows used to do. How exciting. <Laugh>. So if you're using this product you could get the September update right now, which is 22 H two. Oh that's not for SharePoint server. Okay. No, not at all. There's a lot of features in this. I would, I would say you could do a field guide for this actually because there's so many features. I'm not volunteering Paul and definitely not volunteering myself <laugh>. But if

Leo Laporte (01:56:31):
You're talking collaboration,

Mary Jo Foley (01:56:32):
I mean I am not talking collaboration. I am definitely not. I'm sorry. The 22 H two version of SharePoint server subscription edition has things in it, like anti malware scan interface, modern lists, doc lives, copy and move enhancements, column formatting, both bulk editing button web parts. There's a whole huge list. Petri has a very good article outlining what's going on here. I, I knew that Microsoft would be updating this, but they made a big deal out of the fact when they came out with the on-premises version that it wouldn't have as many features as the full subscription online only edition. But I think they're kind of mocking themselves cuz there are a lot of things in this update. So if you are somebody who wants to use SharePoint server online still you and you're on the latest version, you wanna make sure you get these updates. 22 H two is out now

Leo Laporte (01:57:30):
And if there's new surfaces, there must be new code names.

Mary Jo Foley (01:57:35):
Yes. Our friend Zach Bowden at Windows Central, he's the keeper of all these code names these days. So he po he posted on TWiTtter a list of what he says are the code names for all the products that are likely to be announced on October 12th. Some of these, I can guess where the code names came from, like Surface Pro nine 5G he says is Codenamed Arcata Arcata is a town in California Surface Studio three, Chias Jaha I believe is how they pronounce it as a town in Washington State. Surface Earbuds two, which he thinks will be announced also code named Ella for Ella Fitzgerald. They use famous singers, vocalists for their code names Surface Pro nine Zah, Z A C A. I don't know what that has to do with anything other than maybe it's a joke on Zack Bowden's name, I don't know. You're project Ter <laugh> Project Volter the little mini surface device that's going to be arm based and mostly for AI workloads. He says it's code named BlackRock. Blackrock is a city in Nevada where they have Burning Man, but also it could be a reference to the device itself. It looks like a Black rock.

Leo Laporte (01:58:49):
Black rock, yeah. Right, right.

Mary Jo Foley (01:58:50):
<Laugh>. Yeah. So he's got all these code names. He's very, very well sourced and very believable on those. And it helps to know these code names. Sometimes they have different code names for marketing and engineering to try to catch leakers. He didn't say if these were the marketing or the engineering code names. But it's helpful for us as things kind of leak out that we know what the code names are. So when we hear the code name we can learn which device they're talking about. Yeah. So

Leo Laporte (01:59:16):
Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:59:16):
He tweeted this and the whole list is right there.

Leo Laporte (01:59:19):
You could tie it together. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:59:21):
You can, yeah, yeah. Connect the dots. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:59:23):
Yep. Makes sense. Yep. Ah, I'm in the mood for a delicious, I don't even know how to say the name of this beer.

Mary Jo Foley (01:59:30):
I know <laugh>. I'm not sure I do either. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:59:32):
Good trip. Good try here. Let's see. Let's hear it

Mary Jo Foley (01:59:34):
Right. October 1st is coming up very shortly here. It's not the official start of Octoberfest, but a lot of people associate October and Octoberfest together. So I was thinking, okay, what's a great beer you would have at Octoberfest? I wanted to pick something from Germany. So I picked Iyengar Celebrator, which I've had a few times. It's a Doppel box style beer. Doppel box is two times the beer a TWiTce the beer, some people

Paul Thurrott (02:00:01):
It forget me. What's the name of the brewery?

Mary Jo Foley (02:00:04):
<Laugh>. Yeah, I know. Let me try that. I anger Private Broy.

Leo Laporte (02:00:08):
Okay, that's

Mary Jo Foley (02:00:09):
Probably good I'm guessing. Yeah. yeah, they are very well known for this beer. I've had it in different places. I've had it in the us I've had it in Europe. Dopple box. So some people call Dopple Box Liquid Bread because it's very malty. But it's not heavy. It's interesting, It's not like a stout, it's very light. Usually kind of see through and color even though it's dark. A little coffee ish sometimes very, very easy to drink. 6.7%. You can drink a few of them and still maintain your composure at Octoberfest. But very delicious. I really like the Spear a lot and I know every year they make a new version of it and it's very delicious. And if you wanna try a Dopple block, this would be a good one if you can find it. Iger, a y i n g e r

Leo Laporte (02:00:55):
According to untapped, this has been ranked among the best beers in the world by the Chicago Testing Institute.

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:03):
It's really good. Wow. It's very

Leo Laporte (02:01:05):
Refreshing now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna have to check it out at my local. 

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:10):
I bet you guys have this in your list.

Leo Laporte (02:01:12):
I bet we do. Yeah, I bet we do. This looks like something they would, I'm

Paul Thurrott (02:01:15):
Not sure I've even heard of this. I'm amazed to say

Leo Laporte (02:01:18):
I haven't, Huh? Yeah. Topple box are double boxed. Yes. What's that mean?

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:25):
Just like, I don't know if it means TWiTce brew or TWiTce the beer. Like there's single box in double boxed. Right.

Paul Thurrott (02:01:31):
You know how French soup has a piece of bread in the top? Yeah, it's like that except it's

Leo Laporte (02:01:36):
Beer.

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:37):
It's melted on it's liquid bread. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:01:39):
Liquid bread. Liquid bread. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:40):
It takes back to the monks, you know, like during Lent they couldn't eat so they gave like something to drink that would hold them over and they have a lot of like carbs.

Leo Laporte (02:01:49):
Oh. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know that story. That's interesting. Yeah. So it's basically lent cheating beers.

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:56):
Exactly. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:01:58):
<Laugh>. It's good to know. I angered Celebra or from I

Mary Jo Foley (02:02:05):
Much better than I did

Leo Laporte (02:02:06):
<Laugh>. It's a book, a double book. Yes. I just, I just channel, you know, some Arnold somebody and it comes out that way. Mary Jo Foley writes at zd net all about microsoft.com is the special vanity URL to get to all of her writing. She joins us every week for Windows Weekly, as does Paul Thra, founder of Windows Weekly. He's at thra.com, T H U R r Ott. He also writes at lean pub.com. That's where the field guide for Windows 10 is. And soon, any day now, the field guide for Windows 11, do you pull down? No, no. You keep Windows 10 up till 2025, right? Yeah. People will still be buying it. I'm not gonna pull it down. I mean, Yeah, no, leave it there. Yeah, why not? Steve Gibson is still using Windows seven, so frankly <laugh>, that guy's stuck on Windows 2000 for the longest.

Leo Laporte (02:02:58):
Whatever you got, he'll take. Yeah, I was a little shocked cuz he mentioned that yesterday. I went, Oh really? Okay. Yeah, no, that doesn't surprise me. Oh, I guess I shouldn't be surprised either. Paul and Mary Jo joined together every Wenes day at 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 PM Eastern, 1800 UTC to do Windows Weekly. As we mentioned, I will be doing a special event October 12th at 7:00 AM we'll be doing the surface event Windows Weekly. You'll follow at its normal time and I'm sure we'll hear all about Ignite unless you guys are gonna be working at Ignite or something like that. But let us know if they, if they call on you. Yeah, I don't think it doesn't look like it. Okay. I know you have it past.

Mary Jo Foley (02:03:39):
No, we might get a break. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:03:40):
Okay. Good, good, good. Yeah. So, so tune in. You can watch live@live.Twit.tv. You can join us in the chat room@irc.Twit.tv Club. Members of course can chat also in the club TWiT Discord. There is a Windows Weekly channel in which you can embed your favorite animated gifts. <Laugh>, right? <Laugh>, you could chat if you want to. You can leave your friends behind chat in the disc code with the Ke Cats and the js on your mind. Ooh yes. Join us. Yes, I like it. If you're just listening, you're probably thinking, Has Leo gone off his rocker? But I was actually responding to the Discord Gs <laugh>, which remain absolutely silly. Twit do TV slash club TWiT if you're not yet a member and you wanna do things like this. We also have on demand versions Add Supported, so they're free available at our website, TWiT tv slash ww. There's a dedicated YouTube channel for Windows Weekly. And of course, probably the easiest best way to get the show is to subscribe in your favorite podcast player. And that way you'll get it automatically the minute we're done fixing it up, polishing it up, you know, getting it all ready for you. Thank you, Paul. Thank you Mary Jo. Have a wonderful week. We'll see you next Wednesday on Windows Weekly. Bye bye Dozers.